 Thank you so much for joining the Private Property Farming podcast. My name is Mbali Nwokor and this evening we are speaking about the developments of a Cassie farmers market. We're speaking to a young entrepreneur, female entrepreneur in the agri industry. It is always fantastic to see more and more women playing a very, very crucial role in the agricultural value chain as well as the sector in a broader landscape. So we're going to get to understand what the Agricultural Institute does within the township economy, providing a farmers market in the Cassie economy as well. It sounds so cool and exciting. And if you have any questions for our guests this evening, please feel free to ask. And we obviously will engage and interact and ask the guests to obviously speak about whatever concerns or questions that you might have based on what she'll be saying this evening. But we are joined by Zama Kambu Memela who is the founding director of the Agricultural Institute. So she's going to tell us about what is it that her institute does within the township economy and their role in the agricultural sector. Zama, thank you so much for joining us. How are you doing? I'm very well in yourself Mbali. Good, good. Firstly, just by means of introduction, firstly, please could you introduce yourself and tell us about your organization. I must say you've got a quite an interesting name, the Agricultural Institute. So also how did you come about developing the institute or starting the institute and what type of work do you do within the agriculture sector? Okay, so I am Zama Kambu Memela, the founding director of the Agricultural Institute, so many titles, my word. The Agricultural Institute is a non-profit organization that is focused on promoting sustainable farming principles within basic education, as well as supporting agribusiness in rural and township communities. The name the Agricultural Institute came from the fact that I had a birding bush moment where I was giving the mandate that I needed to feed God's people. But at the time it was like, but how do I grow food? I'm a chef by profession and my background is in the food and beverage industry. So I'm like, I don't know anything about growing the food, I can cook it, I can eat it, I can serve it, I can sell it. But with the Agricultural Institute, I also knew and understood that I would have to create an institutional body of people that have the knowledge and skills that are required in order for us to support rural and township communities from the level of basic education to those that are actually starting or running their own farms. So we are a body of experts. We partner with a lot of NGOs or experts or people that have the knowledge that is needed, whether it's how do you farm, how do you provide access to markets, all of those things. We partner with people that already know how to do it and we bring it together, we collaborate and we provide the necessary skills and tools. Right, so this is such a fantastic initiative that you're doing and having learned just now that actually your profession is a chef. How do you bring all these different elements to the township community? I mean, was it something that you've just identified and thought, and thought, you know what, there's a need for something like this or did the people say, you know, we would like to see more services along these lines and however we just don't have that at the moment. So how did you come about getting to do the work that you do to the people that you are serving? Well, I don't think it's a secret that poverty is strife in South Africa and that there are poverty struggles and food security challenges when it comes to rural and township areas or previously marginalized and disadvantaged communities. And I think when we when we think about food insecurity, your mind might become dramatic and say there's no food at all, but it's also just about the being able to afford the food that is available on the market. So that also is an underlying factor when it would be considered food insecurity. So when we also look at that, we need to also understand that what is a way that we can cut costs when it comes to your household costs and is whatever you can do yourself, instead of you going out to buy it, you're cutting a huge amount of your monthly budget. And I think also when it was in 2018-2019 where basic education was like kids can now leave school in grade nine and they can go to either TVT colleges or go and look for a job or some form of gain some form of skills. I was like, okay, we need to give them a fighting chance. There are so many issues in the world that you deal with as an individual and then as a family and then as a community. So if we can help you as a child know how to put food on your table so that you can have the nutrition and the energy that will sustain you to fight all the other thousand battles you have to fight every single day, then we would have made a difference in a child or a few children's lives. And then when it comes to again, food insecurity, but looking at smallholder farmers in township and rural communities is that yes, they know how to go their own food, but now these are adults. And the cabbage is not going to put the lights on. The spinach is not going to keep the water flowing through your home. So you need to still be able to use the skill that you have in this fresh produce to bring in money that's going to help you take down all these other costs. So it was like, okay, what challenges are they facing? Now, a lot of them will say that we don't have access to markets. And it's like, okay, what are the different types of markets that are available to you? A lot of them are selling to their neighbors. A lot of them are selling to our hawkers that are on the streets around the taxi ranks, but they have a lot of land that they're not farming on because they fear that they won't have a big market, a commercial market that they can sell to. So we're saying if you have the platform to do what you already do best, let's try bridge the gap by trying to get you into those commercial markets, those big markets, whilst also teaching you the skills of how you can do it yourself because it's only sustainable if I'm teaching you how to do it yourself because I can't be there forever. So yeah. Yeah. So just based on the two different elements or the two different incumbents that you're providing this service to, firstly, I mean, you mentioned that there's people growing their own food, however, they don't have market in the rural and township areas. And then also there's young children who pretty much don't know where food comes from, who maybe think that food is grown and produced in a retail store. So firstly, going on to the young children, I mean, are you working with kindergartens, nurseries, schools, primary schools, preschools? And if so, what is it that you're doing? Are you going to the schools building up community gardens, trying to put in an agri or food security program in that? Just maybe take us down, give us a brief rundown of how do you work particularly with the young individuals or youth within the Agricultural Institute? Okay. So we have a program called Build an Eco-School. So for the Build an Eco-School program, we work with primary schools and high schools. And we've partnered with WESA that has a whole environmental program that we can use in the school that is capsulate. Basic education has environmental topics that teachers are required to teach students all the way from grade R through to metric. And we believe in a hands-on approach to learning. So with environmental studies and sustainability, there's a topic called health and well-being. Health and well-being covers agriculture as well as food and nutrition. So that's where we specialize. So WESA then provides us with the cap six education and re-identify schools that we can work with. Right now, we are working with, and this is like our flagship in our Price School. I'm so proud of them. It's a new primary school in Inanda. They are a primary school grade, arts grade seven, and we go in and reform an eco committee. The eco committee, we then do a school assessment and we decide what are the things, how can we establish a food garden in the school? Our community has food garden. It has two traditional gardens. It has a green wall using recycled plastic bottles. It's also going food in a retainable medicinal garden. So we establish the eco committee, the teachers and the students. And then we make agriculture go into the classroom and we teach them about the different components of agriculture. So we teach them about the soil and understanding the soil structures and how you can test your soil. We teach them about understanding what and how they can preserve it. These are the nutrient levels in food and how you can preserve those nutrients when you're actually cooking your food. Right now the school is at a point where we had planted frilly lettuce and they're at a point where they're ready to sell it. So now we're going into the entrepreneurship studies of that. Okay, now you have this commodity. How are you going to make sure that your books are in order from a business perspective? How are you going to package it and price it so that it's also good for your consumer? So that's the extent that we go with the school. We work with all the way from the principal through to the teachers, the students as well as the security guard because the eco committee has to have members of the school, teachers, students, as well as community members. Those are the people that are looking after your children. So if we're going to say that we're wanting to teach and impact the community through the kids and the schools, then we have to touch base on all these different levels. Oh wow, fantastic. And with the on the other approach that you're working with, with the individuals that already started farming or already growing fresh produce of food in their gardens or small plots of land, how do you then bring them to the markets? Are you just facilitating the markets? Basically, are you going out to the townships and maybe marketing their fresh produce to the different workers, to the local franchise owned retailers, you know, any catering companies, etc. Or are you just connecting them, you know, just to say, mom so and so, here's a lady who owns a catering company, you are both of your businesses can obviously collaborate. Therefore, maybe discuss how you could work together and then you leave it from there. Or do you facilitate those arrangements and agreements and make sure that, you know, that the farmer or the individual producing and growing food in their own home or garden is well taken care of, even where markets are concerned. Okay, so when we first started Mali, we started during the lockdown, the first lockdown, we've had so many. We the first one in 2020. And our primary role was to first market these farmers. Let we would we identified farmers, and then we went to retail brands and we were like, we have this handful of local farmers. This is what they are producing. Can they please supply you. And and our the foundational concept was that we will pool the the the commodities that are produced by this farmers in order to meet the bulk audit demands of the retail brand. So we did that and we realized that there are some issues on the farm that we need to deal with before we can go to the retail brand and say the farmers have this can you buy it. I'll give you one example we had, we had 1000 cabbages that we had to deliver on the Wednesday. And so we had about four farmers that were giving us some cabbages in order to meet this bulk audit demand. And the one farmer said he had 200 cabbages. And we're therefore collection, he's only harvested 100 of those cabbages. And he's nowhere to be found. We finally track him down. And he has the other 100 50 are good to go. Like he just has to harvest them. The other 50 have a paste infection on that they have a form of infection on them. And it's like, but why was this not communicated to us when you said that you have these amount of cabbages. So and when we did go to do the farm verification or the crop verification, he showed us the good cabbages. So it's like, okay, there's something that's happening from a skills point that needs to be addressed as well. And also what we need is that, which is one of the things that the retail brands have mentioned that when it comes to local farms or smallholder farmers in the community, quantity is a question. Are they actually going to deliver on time and deliver the quantity that they said that they're going to deliver. So at the time, we had the retail brands dealing with the individual farmers and we just represented them. But now we realize that we actually, they only want to be dealing with one person. So we had to now just take a pause and decide to put in systems that help us ensure that the farmer is doing things at the right way. And we're working with them each step of the way so that we can actually deliver to the retail brand what we have promised, but at the same time also be taking care of all of the farmers. So now we've adopted an approach of yes, we do facilitate the purchase and the servicing, but we also need to have a program where from you as a farmer, from the point where you are actually planting your seeds or your seedlings, what is, have you tested your soil? What inputs are you using in your garden so that that will help us also determine what we're going to get when it comes to harvest season? And what rate are you working at? If you are saying that you have planted 10,000 spinach seedlings, how long is it taking you to plant that? And so that we can also, it just helps us know, give accurate quantity and quality forecasts. And then it also allows the, so we have part of the program is that retail brands do need to have a take off agreement with us as gas farmers market, because we need to know that if the farmer is going to be planting 10,000 spinach seedlings, we have to know where it's going to go. Because part of why local smallholder farmers don't plant all of the farming land that they have is because they don't believe that they'll have someone to buy it at the end. So that's the way that we're working with it right now. Also another aspect of it is we keep track of the financial inputs that the farmer has to take their expenditure. Because with these local farmers, a retail brand will say, why should I buy your cabbage at $15 a head when I can get it at the market for $10 a head during the season? But if you as a retail brand are saying that you want to support the local farming economy community, we need to be able to also work with the farmer to try and help them keep the input costs down where possible. And if it isn't, we need to be able to validate that I can't sell it to you retail brand at this price, because this is what the farmer is. This is how much it costs them to produce it. So you have to meet us some way in the middle. I think sometimes there are place things that are in disguise. So what case it in faced recently with the how thing as well, but with the protests and the riots, some of the farmers were saying that they wish they were given a sign a season before that this was going to happen, because they found them benefiting from unfortunately a lot of the stores had to close markets had to close for a safety perspective. A lot of the roads were blocked, but people in their community were not going out of the community to get French produce. They were buying it from them. And they sold out. And unfortunately, what they couldn't sell was what was in the ground, but that was only going to be ready for harvest in September. So that's why they say they wish they had a set. Now, imagine if we had a whole lot more people buying from the community farmers that are in their area and having supermarkets actually buying fresh produce from the farmers in their area. A lot of the supermarkets were then facing a food insecurity, because they couldn't get produce in from other provinces or from surrounding towns, because the roads are blocked. And in the whole time making, but there are so many farmers in your area. Why weren't you buying something in the first place? So those are the type of things that we really, I think this experience was a bit of an eye opener in that aspect that when we say we buy local and you're supporting local, are you really doing it if you're still getting your goods coming in 500 kilometers away from where your store is? Wow. And what have been some of the successful milestones that you've achieved since you started the Agricultural Institute? Some of the successful milestones have been that we were able to get five small-holder farmers into two supermarkets in well-known brands in Waimashu Township, which I think was really something amazing and that happened in our first year, because that's something that they dreamed about, but they never really saw it possible. And that's simply because of language barriers. If they had a seat at the table, could they really negotiate their way through it? So us coming in really gave them that opportunity to have those dreams realized. And also with our Build and EcoSchool program that we run at schools, we are with the schools that we are running the program in, it is fully funded. And I think that is something that really made us feel good because it's like what we are offering, someone actually believes that it's worth it. We're not just building clouds and castles in the sky, you know? And I think once someone can, if you put any business, if you put it on the table, if you put your concept on the table and someone says that I will back you with money for that, you really kind of know that you're on the right track, whether it's for good or for this season, either way, you're on the right track. So that's one of the things that we are really excited about and proud of that we've been able to achieve. Wow. And similarly as well, you know, like you said, there's been a lot of looting in the past couple of few weeks ago. And you've mentioned some of, you know, how the farmers that you're supporting were able to, you know, maneuver in some ways to find additional alternative markets. What has been the big learning curve, especially the fact that, you know, these lootings and violence took place in townships? What have been some of the learning curves specifically around food security? I mean, you know, the aftermath of that was that there was a shortage of food in, you know, local spasa shops, some supermarkets were closed, you know, and obviously it was very scarce to buy things like bread, you know. So with the people that you're working with, the incumbents that you've supported, like these small scale farmers, like the children in the primary schools and high schools as well, you know, has it really brought into perspective really on the ground and what you're doing 100% in the sense that now do they really understand the link between all the importance of why it is to grow your own food and how food operates along the value change? Do they have an understanding now of how food systems work? Yes, they definitely do. One of the learning curves from a school's perspective is a lot of the schools in township communities have they have the national food feeding scheme program running there and all of the people that are commissioned to actually run and supply those feeding schemes are getting their goods from the fish produce market. So to have fish produce grown on the school grounds for two reasons. Should we have a crisis like the one that we just came from? We know that and say it happened while schools are open. We know that those families, those kids and the families can still get food because there's food that is grown on the school grounds. And secondly, it's a way for schools to generate money because they need a lot of the schools are either fully public or they are part private, part public, but there is a certain extent where you need to be raising money and creating that pool for yourself as a school. So there's that aspect of it, which is had had the school had the produce been ready for harvest. It would have been a great opportunity for them to also make money from that. From a farmer perspective in these communities, I think it really taught them even from the lockdown when it started last year is that you need to have a diverse portfolio. If you aren't selling to your neighbors or the people hawkers that are selling fresh produce because they weren't able to put up their stores during the lockdown, you need to have different amenities that you're selling your fresh produce to so that you have a buffer during a crisis. And also, I think she just not operate out of fear. We're living in times where you literally have no idea what you're going to wake up to the next day. So if you have the land to grow your own food, if you have five hectares of land or 10 hectares of land, don't only grow on two, use all the land that you have, if you and there are different options that you have, you don't have to grow it all yourself, cut up your piece of land and give portions of it to your neighbors, and then they can rent it from you. That's also a form of money generating money for you and your farm. There's so many options for them. So I think it's really taught them how to think out of the box. And another sad but revelation that I think it was for us as well as the farmers is we were renting a pack house facility on a farm in Inanda that had this. They were gifted it by the government many years ago and they never used it. So we used it for Garcia Farmers Market when we started out. And in March this year, we went back to them to go and negotiate the renewing of our lease to use this pack house facility. So I'm going, the lease is drawn up and ready. We're just going to go sign because we're continuing with business and the co-opposite hold up. So we can't renew your lease. I'm like, okay, why? And they're like, because you've opened our eyes and we want to do exactly what you've been doing for ourselves. And I was like, okay, talk about the rug being pulled right up under your feet. But I was like, you know what? Also, that means we've also served our purpose here. We've taught them something. We've opened their eyes and they feel that they are strong enough and have the capacity to do it themselves without us. Then that means it's time for us to move on because as an organization, we have a pool of objectives and that means we've fulfilled it within that community with those farmers. So it was okay for us to move on. So we keep learning and you keep staying prepared for whatever may come each day. Yeah, wow, that's fantastic. And I like the point where you mentioned that, you know, you're always encouraging people to use or maximize their full land capacity. But how do you address the problem or the challenge to those individuals who, yes, I've got five acres, but I'm only producing on one because I don't have the financial capacity to expand to five acres. How do you then solve that problem and that challenge? Similarly, with the schools that you're working with, where principals are like, we're buying into this idea and we want to start an initiative like this in our school. However, how do you deal with the teachers saying we don't have a budget to maybe build a title to put in some irrigation to physically and practically teach and show children how food is made and how it's grown and where it comes from? So how do you deal with the problem around raising capital, financing or funding, whichever term you prefer? You know, it doesn't matter how much money you have in your bank account. If you don't have the right attitude towards money, you're as good as someone who has no money in your bank account because if you have 500 grand and you don't know how you can maximize this 500 grand, you might as well not have anything. If you have a farm, you have five hectares, you're only planting on two hectares. So that means you have three hectares to spare. Why don't you put out an advert? And in the township areas and in rural areas, an advert's word of mouth, let them know that you have a piece of land that you're willing for another person to use for so much a month or for so much a season. And you know that whatever they pay per season, because obviously they're also going to be making money based on what they sell, you know that that is going towards the pocket that you're creating so that you can eventually use that whole piece of land yourself. When it comes to schools and they say we would love to have this, but we don't have the funds to establish a whole tunnel and irrigation system. I'm like, okay, so what do you have the funds to do? Do you have states? Do you have folks? Do you have a tap? Do you have a hose pipe? Okay, so let's start with that. Start where you are because whatever you have at that time is going to help you work towards what you need to build your vision, whatever this that you envision your piece of land looking like. I think we live in a time where there's so much, there's open floodgates to information and to what people are doing and through social media and through the internet. And what is sad is that everyone is showing the finished products. They're showing the end goal and they're not showing that what happened every single day in order for you to get there. And I'm not saying show us the struggle, but I'm saying show us that it's possible for me to start where I am because even now when people have this vision of I want to have a commercial farm or when I have a tentative farm and this is what I want to grow, those people didn't just wake up and it was there. They started somewhere and we're also at a time where it's very risky for banks or any financial institution to just give out money to anyone that doesn't have the backing to say that I can really produce what I'm saying I will produce at time XYZ. It's very difficult so you might not get the financial backing, but you need to be able to be resourceful. Look at what's in your yard, what's in your kitchen and cook up something and then you will eventually get to where you need to be. And another thing is that don't think that you're going to do it by yourself. You need to understand that you have to speak up. You need to find people that are in the space that you're wanting to do things in and teach them and tell them what you want. Not everyone is out to steal your idea really. Tell them what it is that you're wanting to do so that they can give you ideas. They can suggest things. They might even help you, but you have to speak up. Speak up, start where you are. Shoot for the stars. Thank you for that. My last question is firstly, I just want to find out so how many township farmers or rural farmers are you currently supporting since you started the business? How has it grown in terms of your reach and your impact? Okay, so right now we are currently working with nine farmers within the Pink District, which is Phoenix, Inna and Adruzoma and Wama Ashu. And we are currently working them through the program of understanding what farming methods do they choose to use on the farm and trying to get them to a consistent level so that we can give them access to market. We are also working with a retail brand. Well, we're in talks with a retail brand that is actually wanting to adopt the Gassi Farmers Market program as part of their business model. Also that coming from what they experienced with the protests and the looting and understanding that if you're staying here by local, what does that really mean for you as a business? Is your local 500,000 kilometers away or is it 20, 30 kilometers away from your retail store? And we're also in talks with a farm that is within the Herigwala District that they have recently bought within the last decade, but they realize that the people that they are working on their farm are actually third-generation workers on that very same farm. But with all the farm owners that have been there, no one has thought to actually build their capacity for them to run their own small farms because in the rural areas a lot of people have land. You have your family land, but now they haven't, there's that employee mentality and they haven't capacitated and you can also be an employer and you can also run your own farm. So they're wanting to adopt the Gassi Farmers Market program within their business model so that they can increase their capacity because they as a farm already have access to markets, but they're using the farmers to increase their capacity and also empower them as well. So that's where we're at. Wow, this sounds so amazing and just knowing and learning that you are a chef by profession and you just have an interest in food and you're doing so much work on the ground where Agri is concerned assisting farmers, helping them find markets, it really goes to shows I mean that I think it's all about attitude really. You don't have to be a farmer, you know an agronomist for example to help farmers you know achieve their dreams and grow their businesses, but it's about seeing certain opportunities, identifying who needs help, connecting you know businesses and individuals together and just creating an ecosystem and community where we can all thrive from at the end of the day. So I just want to congratulate you for the phenomenal work that you're doing at the AgriCal Institute and you are all the best with your future endeavors and thank you so much for coming on to the show this evening. Thank you so much for having me Bali, thank you so much. It's a pleasure. I was just speaking to Uzama and she's the founder of the AgriCal Institute. If you missed our conversation you can catch the live podcast on our YouTube channel under the private property farming podcast playlist. She spoke about everything to do with gassy townships where agriculture is concerned, where farming is concerned, where food systems are concerned and she really broke down her business in terms of how she works with primary schools or the education sector in primary or high schools teaching children about food systems where food comes from, trying to put that into the curriculum so that they understand the value of food and the agricultural value chain in our nutshell and then as well she spoke about the work that she does in various regions assisting farmers whether they are farming in the township areas or in rural areas connecting them and linking them with different markets making them understand that what they're doing is essentially running a business and how can they turn this passion or the love of producing their own food into an actual business where they can generate income you know by electricity for the household by water or just support the family household in whichever way financially but coming from producing food or having sales from your crops and so yeah I think she's doing amazing work if you want to partner with her please you know you can reach out to her directly and obviously see how both your businesses or your service offerings can create synergies and collaborations specifically on the work that she's doing in and around townships and rural areas. Thank you so much for watching and supporting the performing podcast episode this evening and I will catch you next week Tuesday at eight o'clock that's it for me tonight have a good Friday and a fantastic weekend ahead take care