 Hello and welcome to NewsClick. Today we're discussing the situation in Jammu and Kashmir. On October 31st, the Indian government initiated the process of the formal bifurcation of the state which is now into effect. Post the abrogation of Article 370 on August 5th, the state has witnessed series of protests, multiple demonstrations and of course changes in the administrative processes. Today we're especially discussing the land reorganization that has been initiated after the abrogation of 370 and to discuss this with us we have Gautam Navlaka. Thank you Gautam for joining us. My first question to you is currently there is a massive lawyer strike which is taking place in Jammu and it's not the first. There are other such strikes that have happened but why is this one significant? How is it connected to the land in the state? Well, the reason by the Bar Association which is actually headed by a Bharti Janta Party person who happens to be its official spokesperson and they have spearheaded this indefinite strike which itself is very striking. Their argument is that by transferring the responsibility of registration of immovable property from the judiciary to a new department in the revenue under the revenue department called registration department for immuable property what the government has done is divested the local people of even little possibility of relief and a transparent system for registration of their immovable property. This enhances the power of the central government over land issue which in any case under the reorganization act they have vested in the central government. Because it's a union territory now not a special status now and they have deliberately done away with major land acts which take away the which used to prevent sale of land to an outsider because it could not be sold to a non-permanent resident at all and there were strict restrictions guiding it. Now having done that as a first step and now with this whole transfer of responsibility of registration also with the central government via the revenue department what you have done is that the union territory now is virtually like a colony ruled by the center where the local population have no control and Jammu's lawyers were agitated precisely because of this that their voices were not heeded they were not taken into confidence they kept on complaining and asking for dialogue and all it was not done. So the central government ignored its own people in Jammu which is quite remarkable in order to push through what it wants to against the wishes of the people it shows that the extent to which they are willing to go. So it's very striking that land issue is something which still is a major issue which played entire Jammu and Kashmir including Ladakh. It's not as if Ladakh is quiet in fact the demand in Ladakh is for the six schedule status which the central government is unwilling to concede now that's a very striking thing that if you wanted to divest I mean bifurcate a state and create a union territory then surely given that it's a predominantly tribal area why don't you bring in six schedule which itself shows the government's intentions of what they plan to do against the wishes of the local community and I think that is the single most important issue. Yeah so we've been seeing that as you mentioned in this answer that there is a there is a reading down of a lot of laws that has now taken place. If you could tell us more about that that how does it give center more power what were these special provisions that were actually protecting the people. Well for instance under the Reorganization Act the police and public order the powers to formulate policies or new laws doesn't rest with the union territory it rests with the central government. Even the chief minister of the union territory doesn't even have the power to appoint his or her own principal secretary it will be done by the lieutenant governor. So much so that the lieutenant governor is actually not only in charge of day to day running he has powers for budget making for over police public order and of course the central bureaucracy he has direct control over their functioning and their transfer or appointment or promotion. The union territory government now I mean Jammu and Kashmir from a special status now reduced to virtually a colony called union territory ruled by the central government will have no power to decide on a variety of subjects which actually directly concern them and directly concern the people not even the budget will be prepared by them. So what powers are they going to have negligible it's like a municipal corporation. And you know the kind of impact that it will have on it is important to understand this from you that the impact that this will have now on how land was distributed who held the land and what kind of changes that it may bring in the demographics of the state. Well the fear is I mean the biggest fear that people feel right now is there is and there is a concerted effort on the part of the government of India to to persuade people to to part with their land for a good price as they have been claiming in the advertisement and propaganda campaign that they have been running in Jammu and Kashmir. So as part of that they're trying to encourage people to sell. So obviously the by reducing the the question of who can own land and who can you know become owner of a of another immovable property who can come and invest in land etc or some real estate company who wants to it opens up doors for them. Yes which reduces the power I mean if you don't even have the local communities don't even have a power through their own representatives in their own assembly to to formulate laws and policies regarding this matter then obviously the central government will decide in the bureaucrats who are completely unrepresentative who have no contact with the local community who are not bound by to follow the wishes or have any political reason why they should follow what the local communities have to say they'll do exactly what the government central government wants them to do and that is the biggest fear. So what will happen to the to all the land reforms and the the the radical land reform that took place I mean I wonder we'll see as as things unfold it's too it's too early to say exactly which way it'll move but the fear is that will they even try to abolish the Jagirdari system and bring it back I mean there is there is there is that fear that also hangs over it this over and above all that has happened in the last 70 years and particularly in the last 30 years Sumeda with untold misery inflicted and violence inflicted on the population and people suffered for the last 30 years and it was almost revolutionary in terms of it's it was almost like a preceding that the state had set in terms of its land reforms for the rest of the country so how has that model now you know suffered is has it suffered a hit and what was that model that was actually being looked up to so much with the state and now that has been completely decimated with the new I wish it was true what you're saying it that the state was being looked at or the radical land reform in Jammu and Kashmir I think we we are becoming aware of it now much too late this is something which we all of us knew even earlier it's now when it is ending it's coming to its you know it's being taken away that we are realizing the significance of it but let me tell you I mean Jammu and Kashmir is is is made complicated because of three principal reasons you know it's a historical dispute which goes back to partition and the way in which independence or power got transferred in the former British colony that we were you know and that how India got divided the second is what the local party which was one of the premier leading political movements in Jammu and Kashmir had promised the people abolition of of the feudal Jagirdari system and land to the land to the tiller and distribution of land to the landless this was the promise on which they had spearheaded a movement and people were waiting for it to be so second was that so keeping these two two in mind I mean once Jagirdari system came into being it did not does not mean that the therefore the dispute ends no the dispute still remains but on top of that at least we have created a society which is far more equitable than it ever was you've done away with the feudal system which had ruined people for for decades and people suffered because the Kashmiris right over land was taken away under the in under the Dogra rule in for nearly for a hundred years so getting the land back yeah was a very important step in the life now they are back in a situation where they are threatened and there is this fear which hangs over them that this present government of India is pushing to diverse them of their rights over the land and when land comes into picture it it it it can become a very it can it can acquire a very how should I say it can become virulent and which way it will go be it's very difficult to say and that's a very important thing that you mentioned in terms of its historical significance and we will keep following how that development takes place what repercussions would the organization act will have on the state of Jammu and Kashmir so on that note we end this interview thank you so much Gautam for joining us and for these stories these updates and many more please log on to newsclick.in and keep following Kashmir with us thank you