 Today we're gonna talk about O.J. Simpson. A lot of you may not know who he is, but we get a lot of requests for him and there's We've got a pretty good idea about what happened here But Greg's come up with a brilliant idea to keep this from being boring and being different And we're gonna take it from an approach no one has taken before Greg won't tell us about that Yeah, let's start off by who O.J. Simpson is 1968 Heisman award winner when he played for USC then he became an NFL guy for 11 years 11 seasons He still holds records that had not been beaten since the 60s and 70s today He then became a movie and TV guy with 35 appearances. He was an icon. His name was Elvis I mean, he was a single name and you knew who you're talking about So he's a big deal and then in 1992 I believe is the date 94 maybe there was a murder 94 There was a murder of his wife a strange wife and a man at her house. He was tried for that He was found not guilty at trial and then these two videos come out of 1996 two years after the murder and 2006 ten years later what we're going to do is look at a base We'll start off with a video that is one question We are not gonna comment on that until the very end of the show So you get to compare that to what we're doing then we'll go to a baseline in 96 and run through some videos of him talking about the murders then we'll go to a baseline of 2006 and Look at his story the hypothetical and then we'll finally wrap up with the beginning so long long story for what we're gonna do But that's it. Did you kill Nicole Brown and Ron Colton? Absolutely not. I couldn't kill anyone. I couldn't do it All right, here we go. Oh Jay before we start to unravel this bizarre odyssey that you have gone through Why are you doing this interview? Why did you agree to this interview under these circumstances? Well, I think obviously It's well known that I've been wanting to talk for quite a while my When the case is over I wanted to talk immediately unfortunately I had some new lawyers And I was involved in another litigation this civil suit There are some concerns because they hadn't really spent any time with me. They had a lot of concerns that Anything I might say may be used against me and not knowing me and not understanding how I see things and how I speak and Really not even though they followed the case not being totally up on the case They were they were a little reluctant for me to speak at that time So as most of my lawyers they felt that that I was at a time where I was still coming down from an emotional You know this emotional thing Are you doing this for the money to obviously for obviously I I spent a career collecting a certain wealth I've a lot of people have relied on me over those years of family and laws and And I've had to use all that up all those savings up To defend myself All right, Greg. What do you got? Yeah, this is a good baseline because this is a way he talks in every interview now He's obviously a little apprehensive about his image as we said He was an icon and you can see that in his body language as well, but he starts off by illustrating with his face You'll see him move his face a lot as he's talking and he'll raise his brow up when he's asking for how you're perceiving him That's not deception. That's request for approval at how he's perceived He's got internal voice that down left looking down left and down right emotional as he's talking about this He stresses words new lawyers another litigation We're gonna see this later as he things matter to him He stresses them and then as he looks at hadn't spent time with me He's all those things are things that matter to him. This is him telling you what happened. This is baseline He annunciates key words more strongly Against me not knowing me and then if you walk through just a handful of other things here. He punctuates with his head He's dismissive with a smile when he wants to get away from something and his cadence and illustrator is all Congruent all his messaging is going here his eye contacts about 5050 great baseline to start chase. What do you got? Yeah, great a great baseline and keep in mind as we're going forward This is also a baseline that we're seeing for something that he has been rehearsing for years and something that he's been talking about in court So this is after his court appearance But right when the reporter says why did you agree to do this? There's a shift in his eyes to moving down to internal dialogue Which is kind of like when we go down in the left With our eyes if you talk to yourself in your head, that's kind of what you're doing and With the eye accessing thing when you see it on TV and stuff where they say people are lying because of it That's not true But this is a good point to note and there's lip compression instead of saying the word attorney or lawyer here So I think that we're seeing some negatives around Legal teams and lawyers and we'll see that repeat itself There's a quick eye flutter here right there when he's answering they wanted you agree to this Which is kind of what we do as humans when we want to quit apps We want to basically close a bunch of apps We're thinking about a bunch of stuff when we need to close all those apps so we can focus on something else That's kind of what we're seeing here and the when he says emotional thing or when that when that topic comes up there's kind of an interesting tumbler washing machine Gesture that comes up and I think we might see that again and you can look for that Scott. What do you think? All right, I think you're I agree with both you guys. This is a great baseline. He's relaxed He comes out if you listen real close you can hear the guy you can hear the director Telling him what's happening and then you hear him go action and the guy starts asking questions if you're that kind of thing so his illustrators are Fairly simple and they're they're right right where they should be everything looks as it should look everything is as it should As it should be he doesn't look too stressed It doesn't look too worried, but he's putting on his diction is almost perfect here We're gonna see that degrade as we go along So he's got his big show face on right here Of how he wants everybody to see him and he's especially when he says talk He says I've been wanting to talk it's and you can hear him throwing on his show voice for that So these kind of things are interesting because he's again managing perception of how he looks and how he sounds He wants to come off like yeah, yeah, this is this is the OJ show everything's clean and I'm good And but as we but again as we see this Further down we see this degrade and what what we'll keep popping up is this weird little smile with a fake laugh As we go along so that's one of his little some of his body language trademark at this point So mark what do you got? Yeah, so let's just kind of frame it up He walks in there as we saw Chase was saying as we were watching that that he loves the swagger there. I agree There's a there's this so he knows he's on show and so that's part of the baseline It's not a mystery to him. This is this is part of show business He swagger's in love it when he sits down and maneuvers himself But he has a real kind of push forward with with one of his shoulders there I said, I think there's a frame of a little bit of aggression They doesn't really need to push forward so hard with the shoulder I think there's something psychological and aggressive going on there We can understand why he's gonna get some hard questions coming along so that's that's that's of there's that's reasonable I think Maybe a touch of arrogance as well as the chin kind of comes up again I think that's reasonable under the circumstances under the questioning that's going on Yeah, he's super clear about which words he's stressing with his volume and with his elongation And often with an eyebrow raised and a look for approval So people have said before we get new lawyers didn't know me time family Wealth, he's very clear about the things that are most important most valuable to him That's worth checking out but as an overall within that frame I would suggest we see a baseline of calm Assertive and actually gentle. There's a real calm assertive very gentle nature to him Relaxed so it's worth kind of thinking about and looking at the texture of that in your mind and going to everything We see from now on and going well, how much does it fit that calm assertive gentle texture that we've seen from him That's what I go on that one. Hey, let me add one more comment here If you are fan of eye movement buckle up This is a fantastic eye movement study and I'm gonna I will lean heavily into eye movement on this one You can't miss it Unless Scott calls on me first OJ before we start to unravel this bizarre odyssey that you have gone through Why are you doing this interview? Why did you agree to this interview under these circumstances? well, I think obviously It's well known that I've been wanting to talk for quite a while my When the case is over I wanted to talk immediately Unfortunately, I had some new lawyers and I was involved in another litigation this civil suit There are some concerns because they hadn't really spent any time with me. They had a lot of concerns that Anything I might say may be used against me and not knowing me and not understanding how I see things and how I speak and Really not even though they followed the case not being totally up on the case They were they were a little reluctant for me to speak at that time So with most of my lawyers they felt that that I was at a time where I was still coming down from an emotional You know this emotional thing. Are you doing this for the money too? Oh, obviously for obviously I I've spent a career collecting a certain wealth I've a lot of people have relied on me over those years of family in-laws and and I've had to use all that up all Those savings up to defend myself But the coincidences still remain again, you know, whether it's yours or not the contention your blood at the crime scene your blood Coincidence here at Rockingham found the same night of That the crime happened and in the Bronco Well, you know if in fact that was my blood here at the home if in fact it was I don't find that to be Coincidence was it I don't think so, but I don't find how did it get here? How did it get who's blood was it here at Rockingham if in fact it was my if in fact it was mine I live here, you know, I think you're gonna be surprised at how little blood is involved in this this bloody home That I hear there were drops of blood drops of blood on the driveway if in fact it happened if in fact I deposited it would have not been Certainly not after leaving Nicole's house because I hadn't been in Nicole's house and maybe when I was running around I really had absolutely no answer for that. I Personally, I am very skeptical about whose blood that was Chase, what do you got? But right away we see a chin drop just a small amount during this when the question is revealed the topic of the question and then how did it get here and Right there he kind of moves to a potentially visual accessing so maybe picturing what's going on there and When he's saying I live here at Rockingham There's some fading facts, which I hope Scott talks about When he just his volume goes way down right there. He almost says after leaving Nicole's house right there and There is a big eyebrow flash right there And there's some narrowing of the eyes To kind of bring the interviewer into focus to ensure that He can continue without worrying about this this lapse in his speech And the last thing here, I think when he says if in fact I deposited it I think that's an interesting word choice And I think he's carried a very litigious mentality from court and he's he's learned a lot of these These words doing this and this also starts a trend here of unusual eye accessing maybe for him Where he goes to nine o'clock. So if this is your first video watching this He's going to your nine o'clock as you're looking at the screen. This might be his baseline. So let's keep an eye out No pun intended in the next few videos to see where his eye home is. Where does he normally go to access truthful memories? So let's take a look at that And maybe this changes based on the type of information that he's recalling But I think what you're going to see in the next few videos is pretty interesting when it comes to eyes Greg Yeah, so let's talk about eye movement just for a minute What you're going to find in him is this is a great study in eye movement He doesn't have a single place his eyes go for information And this guy asks some great questions and what happens is when he asks those questions He locks down a visual access in queue and it's a beautiful one. We'll see it later We'll also see auditory access in queues and then we'll see him conjecturing. It's a beautiful thing He's about like most of the nlp stuff teaches So it'll be an interesting one for you to watch because you get some narrowly focused But in the beginning he purses his lips And you see that and you're thinking what's going on with that exactly at coincidence when he says coincidences His blink rate goes through the roof not talking about flutter or processor speed. I'm talking about blink rate Because he's prepared for it His lips get tightly held and then he starts milling his jaw as his chin drops that you pointed out scott Or a chase then he does riveted eye contact what scott and I have called in in the true crime workshop the romancer He makes riveted eye contact He does that one shoulder shrug and breaks eye contact away from the camera And then back to it If you watch him, he's turtling He's shrinking the target or turtling and making his body smaller and minimizing when he says if in fact I love this because he is reframing the question and he is taking it away from coincidence Then he faints confusion at how it got there. Then you do see processor speed flutters He's trying to figure out what to say back to straight hard eye contact and brow beating as he shows irritation You can't miss that jaw This doesn't mean that he killed his wife. This means something But it could mean simply he's fed up with answering the questions. It's funny I chose that word in my very first video and he used that word later But he rambles and uses distancing language I I personally as he distances from the actual act This gone is the concise oj about why he's doing this the friendly oj about what happened We're in a different place scott. What do you get? He never says I don't know. He never answers the question And we see this uh, this showtime oj start melting away All this all the shininess starts going away as the questions start And this is a great place to start because this is what this is where he starts He's like chase brought up language what we call Fading facts where he talks about rocking ham. He's he says rocking ham. He almost whispers it he's trying to Distance himself with the language away from Everything there this house that was that did this I was here at rocking ham He everything is in is just distance from him. So he's trying to psychologically Separate himself from that situation I said at the top we see that lip compression. So we know he's getting ready for for something He's Obviously when you get asked questions like this, you're gonna think about what's coming up You've got to be on the ball So that's one of the things we're seeing in that that lip compression where Or he's he's prepping in other words not that he's trying to hold anything back, but he's like, okay Here we go. That's what that's about um When he talks about uh I think he accidentally says That he was over at nicole's house. So you're right chase when he when he's talking about that I think he lets that slip wouldn't happen over at her house before I go I think that's that's the first part in this group of Videos we're gonna watch where he sort of slips up and starts telling us what happened or where he was at that time Even though he's been over it a lot and he's been through Through witness preparation and he's been you can tell by the way he acts and the way he talks There are things we use and and we're seeing him in there So that's that's fairly obvious But the shine is starting to come off of it right out of the gate in that in that second question there Mark, what do you think? Yeah, so where is the calm assertive gentleman that we had before? He started to drift away if not, you know Completely disappeared even this quickly on breathing rate is significantly up So look at that video go back and look at that baseline as well Check out where the top of the chest is going count the numbers there notice the difference Head down and aggressive now eyes more locked more targeted So there's more aggression in there within the meat of what he's doing not within the framework So remember in the baseline he comes in quite aggressive, but then calms down here He's more aggressive within the meat of the content Oh, this is some nice eye stuff that I noticed there, which is the eyes are kind of micro Looking at the examiner. They're trying to look at at nose and eyes and lips and work out What is this person thinking and feeling you can see his conscious and unconscious mind Trying to track the emotions of the interviewer the examiner And so that's a really clear indicator that he's under stress and pressure and he wants to know what's going on here Um, so hyper vigilant at the moment again He wasn't hyper vigilant before in way more command of it And I don't think so that single shoulder shrug that suggests to me that he's unsure Whether he doesn't think so he may be think so there that's all I got on that one But the coincidences still remain again, you know, whether it's yours or not the contention your blood At the crime scene your blood coincidence here at rockingham found the same night of That the crime happened and in the bronco. Well, you know, if in fact, that was my blood here at the home If in fact, it was I don't find that to be such a coincidence. Was it? I don't think so But I don't find how did it get here? How did it get here? Whose blood was it here at rockingham? If in fact, it was mine if in fact it was mine I live here at rockingham You know, I think you're going to be surprised at how little blood is involved in this this bloody home that I hear No, there were there were drops of blood drops of blood on the driveway if in fact it happened If in fact I deposited it it would have not been Certainly not after leaving the coals house because I hadn't been in the coals house and maybe when I was running around I really had absolutely no answer for that. I I Personally, I am very skeptical about whose blood that was What about the victim's blood in your bronco? Once again, it's the we go back to the same thing I hear about blood being in my bronco I'm told that they should have been a lot more blood in the bronco if this was a victim's blood It amazes me that That experienced criminalists could look in this car In this bronco looking for blood. This is a trial of the century the case of all time I mean you heard the detectives talk about that from day one and for two months. They can't find blood Uh people got in that car looking for blood on this Dashboard and on the the divider. I guess I can't call what they call that Console console and they don't find blood and months later they find it They put it all together and they say it's the victim's blood I find it curious that there was a four allele drop of blood on the steering wheel that didn't come to Nicole didn't come to Ron Goldman didn't come to oj Simpson I would submit that if they would have typed that blood dropped or smudged that they saw on the door handle of the bronco It probably would have been a four allele But they didn't I don't understand how I definitely went to my bronco right before I left. I opened the door of my bronco I went in the bronco allen park kato were here at that time. Why wasn't my finger Fingerprints on the handle of my bronco. I submit somebody opened that bronco didn't want their fingerprints on it Erased it. I submit that there's no way that mark firman could have seen the blood Spots that he claimed to have seen on the running board and stuff for that car unless the door was open And I think that was proven. I don't think anybody disputes that you could not see those blood spots that he claimed to have seen Unless he was in the bronco All right mark. What do you got? Yeah, so I'll just read it out Your bronco. Okay. That's the interviewer says your bronco Then he does go to my bronco, but then it becomes the bronco It becomes this car. It becomes that car Then it becomes this dashboard. So it's kind of come back But this is all when he is When he's talking about evidence for blood in You know his bronco. It becomes a totally different vehicle not not attached to him until he says Why weren't my fingerprints on my bronco? So once he's able to go look, I I submit your honor So he becomes a lawyer at this point. He uses lawyer talk. I submit That if My fingerprints aren't on it. Then it's my bronco. If there's anything to do with me around That car then it's that car. It's that dashboard. It doesn't belong to me. So beautiful dislocation And softening around that that evidence there chase. What do you got on this one? No, uh, you stole my, uh, bronco idea I'm really glad first because I'm glad we agree nothing else I'm glad we agree and Right off the bat. We're hearing these auditory words. I hear and I'm told and we're hearing auditory words So let's pay attention if the sensory words of this person Change During this so maybe they're maybe during a certain point in the future in the next few videos You're going to hear him shift very strongly to visual words and maybe it's a different circumstance But if you're ever an interviewer and you hear something like this, this is a clue of what words that you should start using But this is the first time we hear him say the word victim Instead of nicole and I think this is likely just because he's recalling the statement that he's referring to and I think When he's saying, uh, I think it's experienced criminalists, there's some glabella movement here which suggests some disapproval some anger and this whole delivery is consistent with The exception of his small increase in blink rate during the piece here about the blood on the handle of the bronco And even that only scores a six on the behavioral table of elements So if this is deceptive, it's damn good And we're i'm going to tell you probably why this is so good. Uh in just a minute greg Yeah, let's start right off with that. There's my note plausible irritation. That's what this is If I were in a position where I believed that someone had done something to me, I'd be irritated We always say that if a person doesn't go, I didn't do it and what the hell's your problem If they don't do that, we're suspicious. That's what he's doing right here So this is a good whether it's prepared or not. This is beautiful. This is done work perfectly The indicators that it may be prepared are that his hands are locked now. He's a hand talker So when you notice that when he illustrates with his hands and they're not happening He has his hands locked down When they ask him for conjecture now, we're going to hit eye movement. This is where you start to lock him down They ask him for a question that requires conjecture Watch his eyes drift off to his right to his right over to white nine or ten o'clock somewhere in there If you then pay attention and he's trying to think of a word which is auditory recall or using language Watch his eyes go back to this digital place between his brow ridge and his cheekbone to his left As he's trying to recall the word for console. He's digging for words. That's memory all day So we're getting a good base on him where he goes for information Then he goes to internal voice As he's talking and raises his brow doesn't mean he's lying. He's saying do you follow what i'm saying His blink rate goes through the roof and that's fight or flight when we see that that doesn't mean guilt It can also mean pissed off because i'm innocent and so you can't read into any of this We're just going to point it all out to you and let you make Decisions as we get all the way back to that first video But in here his head and his illustrators and his face are all congruent and all make the same message Lots of illustrators and his request for approval is timed at the right thing or do you get me? Finally, his chin drives that information that he feels like this blood was planted So this is to me plausible irritation scott. What do you got? This is one one time where I wish we'd gotten peter hyatt and said hey man Will you give us a quick breakdown to do a quick little video on this play? What you think about this because the words in this are It's so incredible. He says Uh within 75 seconds. He says blood 12 times bronco 10 times. I me or my 20 times And it's all pointing back to him. That's the that's the thing It's all all the words are about him and blood and the bronco, but he's saying those words so much It's it's I'd love to see what what p. I'd say about that because I'm sure you could nail whatever that whatever that whole thing was for You guys pretty much got everything I was going to talk about. What about the victim's blood in your bronco Once again, it's the we go back to the same thing. Uh, I hear about blood being in my bronco I'm told that they should have been a lot more blood in the bronco if this was a victim's blood It amazes me that That experienced criminalists could look in this car In this bronco looking for blood. This is a trial of the century the case of all time I mean you heard the detectives talk about that from day one and for two months. They can't find blood People got in that car looking for blood on this Dashboard and on the the divider. I guess I can't call what they call that console console and They don't find blood and months later they find it. They put it all together and they say it's the victim's blood I find it curious that there was a four allele drop of blood on the steering wheel that didn't come to the cold Didn't come to ron goldman didn't come to oj simpson I would submit that if they would have typed that blood dropped or smudged that they saw on the door handle of the bronco It probably would have been a four allele Uh, but they didn't I don't understand how I definitely went to my bronco right before I left. I opened the door of my bronco I went in the bronco allen park kate over here at that time. Why wasn't my finger Fingerprints on the handle of my bronco. I submit somebody opened that bronco didn't want their fingerprints on it Erased it. I submit that there's no way that mark firman could have seen the blood Spots that he claimed to have seen on the running board and stuff for that car unless the door was open And I think that was proven. I don't think anybody disputes that you could not see those blood spots that he claimed to have seen Unless he was in the bronco Size 12 bruno molly shoe prints found at the crime scene. What size shoes do you wear oj coincidence? Well, I'll be going to my closet. You'll see from 10 and a half to 13s. Uh, they focused on 12s It's coincidence. I understand it's a coincidence. Well, let me ask you this and let me ask the public this The fbi did an exhaustive Search about bruno magley shoes. They said it was a rare shoe They went to every outlet that sold bruno magley shoes Not one person said they ever sold me these bruno magley shoes now. They say this is a very The the most exhaustive investigation of all time, right? No, I was the most exhaustively Investigated person of all time the case wasn't who bought bruno magley shoes Did the fbi tell us who in la might have purchased bruno magley shoes? Uh, if they did we don't know about did you ever have any? First of all, I would have never worn those ugly shoes, you know I can't tell you I can't tell you the name of the shoes I have on now. I think with most men Uh, unless they're tennis shoes, you know, uh, Nike, uh, you know some make of a tennis shoe, you know the name of your tennis shoe I can't tell you the name of any and I may have upwards of 40 pairs shoes Uh upstairs shoes upstairs. Um, I can tell you the name of the shoe So you don't know if you've ever owned a pair of shoes. I don't know I've never walked into a shoe store and asked For a name pair of shoes ever in my life. All right, I'll go first on this one. Um I don't think anybody has shoe sizes from 10 and a half to 13 in their closet Unless there's other people living there and using your closet too. So that's right But I don't think there was anybody else living there. That's crazy talk How could you look somebody in the face and say, oh man, I've got shoes size from from 10 and a half to 13 In my closet. I have shoes That are size 10 and a half. That's it because that's the size I wear Whether it's dress shoes, whether it's whatever I'm wearing. That's what they are the 10 and a half Um, he knows it's not pronounced bruno magley It's not pronounced and in the circles he ran in somebody would have said, dude, don't don't don't say magley. It's it's it's Bruno molly. So somebody would have hipped him to that somebody would have said, hey, man That don't don't we say that they'd been making fun of him, you know, oj. What tell me about those shoes? What are those who makes those bruno magley? Check it. So somebody would have corrected him on that. He knows better than that um That we're seeing perception management all over the place here including that word Magley when he says that because he wants you to think he's he's so far removed from having any of those He's not even pronouncing it right. That's why he's saying it wrong so many times in my opinion um What else have I got here? Oh too much just too many details too going way too into the details without answering the question Again, this is the second time he's been asking a question that he just Totally does not go in for the answer. No, I don't know. I didn't know never says that Never says that at all chase. What do you got? We've got more issue here with uh discomfort with inaccuracy And we talk about this a lot on on our channel So the person is not comfortable with something being inaccurate or not knowing It doesn't need any more than i'm not sure or I don't know if that's the answer Then that discomfort is something you should see on people So right when he says do you have any there is a non answer There is a spike in humor that deviates from baseline where he's talking about how ugly the shoes are There's a tds, which is when your eyes move all over the place A transderivational search to a known question So tds is great when you're trying to recall information But if I ask you something that you know because you've just had spent a year in trial with it That should not require a tds There's redirection right away when he says first of all and they're socializing the situation So this is a result of training which i'm going to talk about I think in the in the next video I'm going to really break this down What are you saying most men and he makes it about that And then when he finally says I don't know It's casual. It's unrushed. It's dismissive. And I think it's also very rehearsed. It's polished Greg what do you think? Yeah, so let's take the first one. He says I would never wear those ugly shoes. Let me tell you I live on a farm I got some shoes. I don't like a lot. Guess which work they get I walk in the manure and all that kind of stuff with them because I don't care if I ruin them If I were probably going to worry about getting them ruined, I'd probably pick that pair those ugly shoes Just number one. That's a fact point Number two, let's just walk through here. He does my my favorite thing We have it on t-shirts and mugs chaff and redirect and in a beautiful way He just starts to spew information that has no value at all until he gets to redirect and once he gets to that redirect Then he starts to preach that pattern. He's all out of All all together away from the question I would lean over and said just answer the question because he avoids it like all hell And then when he says at did you ever own any? I think more than socializing he's trying to humanize himself by saying those are ugly shoes And and and he breaks eye contact to conjecture This is when it looks like a trans derivational in this case chase I think it's more more profound than that He breaks over to conjecture again that we saw earlier and then he goes back In the first time we see a visual eye accessing cue is a hard coded one. I got 40 pairs of shoes He's thinking about all those shoes. You can't miss it. So he's giving away now some eye movement We're getting a good baseline on how his eyes work. I think that's a powerful one There's no defense at all to this. He's just I have written down on my notes He's running like the Hertz commercial just running through the airport knocking stuff By the way not paying a bit of attention just moving on and then finally He gets to that last visual He does redirect to get away from it one more time and his face does something totally out of baseline at the very end Go back and watch it again Mark what do you got? Yeah, I agree with you scott that not even if some of his shoes are in european sizes Would you have So so there's something up there So there's something, you know, he's working against physicality in that and that doesn't ring quite true to us Then he tries to work against society in a bit of a Too heavily protested way with this idea of marley or magley If he didn't really care about the brand and he hadn't he wouldn't care He'd just follow the pronunciation of whoever pronounced it first It would make no difference to him But clearly it does make a difference to him either that he thinks it's pronounced Maggley, which you're right scott people would have said you kidding it wrong, mate You're gonna look cool. It's actually marley. So so look this is out of a social characteristic here And you might go. Yeah, but I mean, you know, he's a social outsider. He's he's you know, there's only one oj No, there's only one bruno marley as well. And and what brands do is they they literally get a hot iron on the skin of people and they embed A symbol into them a a a motif And a word that people cannot get out of their out of their skin out of their mind And and so you're trying to suggest. Well, here's a guy who doesn't care about shoe brands No, you're in a period of time where somebody like him And the world in general Absolutely cared and still care about those things because the businesses have put Billions and billions of dollars into making us care about this He is not so much of an outsider that he wouldn't care about this. Um, so look Uh, did you have any doesn't answer the question and he creates? circumstances As to why you know, he he he wouldn't care about it and then to your point chase which you'll go on about later on He socializes the idea of most men Wouldn't know what brand of shoe they're on so that suggests to me if I come back at it and and go Yeah, but oh jay like I totally know the brand of shoe that I've got on right now And I know every brand of shoe that he's able to go well mark. That's because you're not a man You're not a real man. So he's put me in a corner that says I can't come back if I'm a real man I can't question that that's a super clever Maneuver that's a great social maneuver. That means I'm at risk About my my mailness is at risk by even questioning that size 12 bruno molly shoe prints Found at the crime scene. What size shoes do you wear? Oh jay coincidence Well, I'll be going to my closet. You'll see from 10 and a half to 13s. Uh, they focused on 12s. It's coincidence I understand it's a coincidence. Well, let me ask you this and let me ask the public this The fbi did an exhaustive search about bruno magley shoes. They said it was a rare shoe They went to every outlet that sold bruno magley shoes Not one person said they ever sold me these bruno magley shoes. Now, they say this is a very The the most exhaustive investigation of all time, right? No, I was the most exhaustively Investigative person of all time the case wasn't who bought bruno magley shoes Did the fbi tell us who in la might have purchased bruno magley shoes? Uh, if they did we don't know about that Did you ever have any? First of all, I would have never worn those ugly shoes, you know I can't tell you I can't tell you the name of the shoes I have on now. I think with most men Uh, unless they're tennis shoes, you know, uh, nike, uh, you know some make of a Tennis shoe, you know the name of your tennis shoe. I can't tell you the name of any I may have upwards of 40 pairs shoes Uh upstairs shoes upstairs I can tell you the name of the shoe. So you don't know if you've ever owned a pair of shoes? Yeah, I don't know. I've never walked into a shoe store and asked For a named pair of shoes ever in my life Do you still have the two pairs of gloves that nicole bought for you? I don't know if nicole ever bought me gloves. I never recall nicole ever buying me gloves now We do have and the prosecution knows this we do have uh, uh, discovery from friends of ours At least one, uh, that said nicole bought him two pairs shoes. I mean two pair gloves not these pair gloves At christmas I buy for possibly I know over well over a hundred people nicole normally was in charge of getting christmas presents for various people I would buy for my son for ac for marcus allen You know a few of my very close friends I would buy for but then we had this other group of friends and nicole would get the list and she go out and buy For them. I don't know if she bought these gloves for someone I do know that one person did come forward and also sent the gloves that she had purchased For him and i'm not sure this but i'm pretty sure that was from but you had them on in the photograph No, no at the sidelines. I don't gloves that look similar to them. They may have been that make I don't know but if you look at pictures of me on sidelines You've seen me wear numerous gloves Numerous colored gloves. Where are any of those gloves in those pictures? I asked you Where are any of the clothes that I wore in those uh, but the coincident I'm talking about public perception and coincidence and isn't it a coincidence that you stand in a photograph with similar gloves on to the gloves that were Apparently worn by the murderer. I don't know. It's a coincidence. Isn't it you can say it's a coincidence But I submit that any well-dressed man Who wears gloves everybody in the east wears gloves and you can walk down the street and I can guarantee you Time and time again. You'll see similar make gloves I find it is it a coincidence that there was no gloves upstairs is a coincidence that I had a One glove that looked like these gloves as a matter of fact I would submit to you if I put on the one glove they found upstairs that had lamb skin interior And I stood across this room or you took a picture. It'd be pretty difficult to tell That glove from the gloves that they said I was wearing in the in the in the uh, you know the photographs of cloud I also say what happened to the other glove of that All right, greg what do you got? Yeah, I'm just going to jump to the to the long-term piece. But first of all, he's Let's just jump to the end This is why they didn't want him talking because he talks himself right off the end of a pier here when he says Is it a coincidence that I have a glove exactly like the one found at the crime scene that well Yeah, okay. Now you you know why his attorneys said let's not let this guy get in front of folks But he starts off chaffing and redirecting simple question What happened to those gloves is because said well in fact, she never bought me any into question But he doesn't he starts talking he chaffs redirects and he touches his face The only time in this entire interview that he touches his face. I believe is here. You guys correct me if I'm wrong His cadence is altered as he tries to talk his way out of this You can hear him slow down Where are any of those gloves when they say coincidence this word is is a is a hot button for him because when they say coincidence His eye is narrow his lips purse and his chin goes forward in anger Could again be that he's fed up and there's a fading fact in there at yes Uh mark, what do you got? Yeah, uh, so it just struck me. Um Here's here's oj's Um, uh criteria for how you know if you're a man A real man you wear gloves And and you have no idea what brand of shoes you're wearing just so everybody knows You want to be a real man out there? That's how you do it according to oj um, so the main thing for me is is the question was um Did she buy you those gloves and the answer would be she did not buy me those gloves? I mean that would be that would be the answer, but he doesn't give that answer He deflects to other gloves being bought Uh, not these gloves. He hides it all around the abundance of gifts That get bought and throws other people's names in He his mind is running 10 to the dozen here in a way that now can't control his mouth And I think saliva is now coming out because I think we get a chin wipe there Which is about just his mouth isn't functioning in the way that it should and again Go back to that baseline and how clear and carefully is With his words and now he's a runaway train and he's got spit coming out all over the place So it's it's if nothing else it is way out of his usual baseline here scott. What do you got on this one? He goes from when he asks him About the gloves he goes all the way from I buy christmas presents for over a hundred people and he goes from Not saying no to it's just it's mind boggling. I'm trying to get my head around a way to to Pose this or or say it, but it's so bizarre how far out of his way he goes To not say He doesn't know or not to answer the question He talks about buying a hundred people christmas presents, which has nothing whatsoever to do with that question That alone He's getting good at this too. He's been hanging around large too much Because every answer is all just chaff and redirect. He's not answering the questions at all And it just seems to be flowing right by this guy at some parts He does try to come back to him sometimes, but he never nails him down and says hey man, hang on Answer the question. You didn't answer that question He doesn't pin him on that and there's lots of places you can pin him good on that Um, that's that's all i'm gonna i'll rest there Chase, what do you got? I think it's uh interesting that he and the lawyer are now we So this is the first time he's using this team collective pronoun to talk about himself and uh the attorneys And especially after having such a negative slant on that stuff at the beginning But I think this is overall adapted behavior That we're seeing that was probably learned in a courtroom and very much shaped by Understanding jury psychology. So somebody Like us so like the briefings and training that go into a high-end case like this would probably blow Your mind It is next level stuff that people It's hard to even conceptualize how much work would go into this this trial parm prep starts in in many cases months before the event There are prescription medications to regulate behavior like blood pressure and skin flushing and facial flushing There's hundreds of interviews probably hundreds of hours of different interviews with trial consultants or people that are like us And it's not cheap There's video analysis where they replay this guy's video and show him all of his tells and they make you watch your Tells over and over until you kind of weed them out and they're doing this for Dozens of hours probably with different people And they're hiring people like us to come in and just dissect every movement and then retrain behaviors to be perfect And i'm telling you this is probably millions of dollars and and people like us That were involved in preparing this and that's our job is to change that behavior. So I think that's really what we're seeing here It looks so good because they've invested a lot in this behavior this behavior that we're seeing on camera is an investment Do you still have the two pairs of gloves that nicole bought for you? I don't know if nicole ever bought me gloves. I never recall nicole ever buying me gloves now We do have and the prosecution knows this we do have uh Uh discovery from friends of ours At least one uh that said nicole bought him two pairs shoes I mean two pair gloves not these pair gloves at christmas I buy for possibly I know over well over a hundred people nicole normally was in charge of getting christmas presents for various people I would buy for my son for ac for marcus allen You know a few of my very close friends I would buy for but then we had this other group of friends and nicole would get the list and she'd go out and buy for them I don't know if she bought these gloves for someone I do know that one person did come forward and also sent the gloves that she had purchased For him and I'm not sure this but I'm pretty sure that was from but you had them on in the photograph No, no at the sidelines. I don't gloves that look similar to them. They may have been that make I don't know but if you look at pictures of me on sidelines You've seen me wear numerous gloves numerous colors gloves Where are any of those gloves in those pictures? I asked you Where are any of the clothes that I wore in those uh, but the coincidence I'm talking about public perception and coincidence And isn't it a coincidence that you stand in a photograph with similar gloves on to the gloves that were Apparently worn by the murderer. I don't know. It's a coincidence, isn't it? You can say it's a coincidence But I submit that any well-dressed man Uh, who wears gloves everybody in the east wears gloves and you can walk down the street and I can guarantee you Time and time again, you'll see similar make gloves I find it. Is it a coincidence that there was no gloves upstairs? Is it a coincidence that I had a One glove that looked like these gloves as a matter of fact I would submit to you if I put on the one glove they found upstairs that had lamb skin interior And I stood across this room or you took a picture. It'd be pretty difficult to tell That glove from the gloves that they said I was wearing in the in the in the uh, you know the photographs of cloud I also say what happened to the other glove of that Who was the person that alan park saw walking across your driveway just uh, was it four minutes before 11? Who was that person? See Once again, we we go to marsha clark and I think if I hope we have enough time and you ask enough questions I'll try to shorten my answers up so that we can when I hit these these points Of that people have questions about what was never answered. It's never been revealed who people that is The problem is marsha clark Marsha clark has given an impression of things and people are living with those impressions. I'm seeing the pundits on tv Combining on things that were not facts in this case. There was a never alan park never once Said that he saw anybody walking across the driveway during questioning. He certainly indicated that he may have seen someone right outside The front door of my house. All right mark. What do you got? Yeah, so I think there's a reason why oj is such a huge star is he's quite phenomenal I mean, he has managed to pick up how to structure an argument Just like a lawyer does and I think you're right chase There's there's potentially millions of dollars of education in this but you can you can supply the information to people But whether they can pick it up and then use it under pressure That's a whole different thing and I think he's pretty amazing in this situation By the way, the interviewer is off their baseline. They're scratching their their cheek here Which suggests to me because it's out of baseline the interviewer thinks they got something good Here they think they've got something good and they're already signaling this to the to the to the subject Who was the person? Who was that person? So that's the issue here is is the person so um oj deflects By invoking time That's a really smart move because now we've got to go. No. No. We got all the time in the world That's not the case. He's bought time pressure in there He's reframed the problem. The problem here is is clark I don't know quite who clark is but the problem is clark Reframes the issue here and then he starts to frame the inaccuracy Around that he then sustained then the the interviewer comes in to try and play against that inaccuracy He sustains the inaccuracy and now he's got the interviewer completely cornered because it's true The interviewer has now been inaccurate oj here wins a point if this were a trial you would go Good point well made stand down that that was beautifully done And and I would suggest he's got this set up right from the start He does take a certain brain a certain intellect to be able to play out that little game of chess There so uh, really really interesting scott. What do you got on this one? I think that little game of chess is the only game he's got We're seeing the only game he plays which is chaff and redirect and he blames everything or or pushes everything to someone else His big concern here. We're going to see this later on in the second group of videos It's who that second person was with him Now i'm going to tell you what what I think and it's just my opinion and it doesn't mean he knows no reason I'm not going to say what There was somebody else there, but I think I know who it was. I think you guys got a pretty good idea as well So later on I'll tell you who I think it it might be. I'm not sure who I'm not sure and I can't say this guy did it but I'm Pretty sure but he's he looks at that person as a as a very dangerous subject to be around So he dances around that and he watches what he says around that around that person So in this case, there was no other person It did anything to do with this. There isn't anybody. So let's keep that in mind as we go through this We're seeing the body language of frustration and anger here He's getting frustrated and we're seeing that in his glabella We're seeing that and it's how his how his movements are becoming a little bit more exaggerated His illustrators are strong and they're landing in the right place Just like that an illustrator people keep asking us what these phrases and terms we all use are Illustrators are the way the brain emphasizes specific words and phrases like I did just then And when you see those if they don't land on the right words or where they're supposed to Or if there are extra ones like that Something's up. It means that it suggests they're insecure their answer. They're not sure about their answer Or they're they're not confident with it So keep that in mind as we go through here as well He's got his head up and at the same time it's tilted forward. That's another thing that gives us a heads up He's really he's really frustrated with this with this question And he's angry about it because this gets in on his territory that he wants nobody to know anything about This is sacred ground for him here. So he's got to hold that ground But again another classic oj Chaff and redirect speaking chaff and redirect greg what do you got? Yeah, it's even more than that. This is the most prepared thing he's going to do I think you hit it dead on mark. He is really well prepared for this And I have written down on here for those of my age marsha marsha marsha That's all I see if you know the brainy bunch So that's exactly what it made me think when I saw it is he's bringing her up because he's pushing it Is chaffing and redirecting moving all the blame off him and moving it back to her He's snarky in this one. You can see that kind of exaggerated facial movement And the wooden body language that I would use gotta get written right on my nose snarky and frustrated His messaging is congruent because he's angry. He's upset and he's pushing a point And then he goes into brow beating and points his his head down as he's starting to tell him exactly how things are When you look through under the bottom of your over your glasses and under your brow That's brow beating and then the final one here that I found really interesting Is I'm with you mark the guy thinks he's got something because he does this he uses a regulator say come on Give it to me and then he doesn't get what he thought chase. What do you got? So there's some uh contempt right away about these public assumptions that uh might not be in the case and The question never really gets answered at all. He's redirecting to poking holes instead of providing information And which is exactly what you guys are saying and and it's brilliantly done And when he goes to correct the information from the interviewer, you see this chin raise go up a little neck exposure Which we do as a challenge which all primates do as a challenge We expose a vital organ when we want to challenge somebody And we see the eyes widen And an eyebrow flash So we see a whole lot of behaviors right there when he starts doing this to make sure that he holds ground And this interviewer is an expert interrupter So he wants to make sure he leans forward and has that facial expression to hold his ground so he can get that one point across Then there's I think this correction is just a dominant behavior and Look for a lack of this behavior in questions that are far more Significant so look for a when he's correcting something a detail that's far more significant We should see a similar behavior. So this might give you a clue to something that is coming up Who's the person that alan park saw walking across your driveway? Just uh, was it four minutes before 11? Who was that person? See Once again We go to marsha clark and I think if I hope we have enough time and you ask enough questions I'll try to shorten my answers up so that we can I want to hit these these points of that people have questions about What was never answered it's never been revealed who people that is the problem is marsha clark Marsha clark has given an impression of things and people are living with those impressions. I'm seeing the pundits on tv Combining on things that were not facts in this case. There was any never alan park never once Said that he saw anybody walking across the driveway during questioning He certainly indicated that he may have seen someone right outside the front door of my house Let's talk about the day of june 12th 1994. Yeah Tell me about getting ready for your daughter's recital. Just tell me take me through the day. It was a long week I had been the three or four cities that week. I was totally exhausted My friends in new york tried to get me to stay in new york Uh that friday played golf Saturday and then go straight to chicago where I had to be monday morning But my daughter was having a recital and I had already missed I think the The Week of two before I had I was out of town and I had missed And missed something I forget what it was uh something that my daughter was having So I couldn't miss this so I said I got to be there for the recital and I flew into town and I just wanted to go there See my daughter and leave And I talked to nicole briefly that day. She had called and asked if I could get If I could get there early in whole suites and I said I don't think so What she did and when we got to the recital She had actually held me a seat with her and the two kids, right? There was something uh that you write in the book about what nicole was wearing Yeah, you know, we it was like it was like it almost like she was trying to be a teenager again You know dating all these much younger guys Wearing the shortest tightest thing she was wearing and sometimes you think something's inappropriate But you don't say anything. What am I? I'm out of say tell her what to do, you know All right mark. What do you got? Yeah, so let's take this as a as a as a slight baseline as well. So uh tight lipped at the start and he opens With with a real kind of wallace and grommet nick park fear expression right off the top very quick But I think I see fear there. So tight lipped and fear So the frame for all of this for me is something is about to come up Which he is fearful of and he maybe thinks he shouldn't really say This idea of he missed something but he's searching he's searching for what it is It's like I think you're adding detail here that you hadn't worked out beforehand Shouldn't like if if you if that was important detail you'd have gone to your daughter and you'd have said Hey, what was it that I'd missed those weeks before help me fill in the blanks He hasn't filled in the blanks. So again, he's off his game here Because he's making stuff up as he goes along He puts in this idea of of exhausting So again, he's trying to create an idea of mitigating circumstances I think for all that comes up again Now we've got this idea I think that if you are a if you're a man if you're a real man You are exhausted because you work really hard So there's mitigating circumstances for the things you do because you work hard. You're exhausted You don't know what brand of shoes you've got on and you're always wearing gloves Now even the baseline therefore I don't really like the frame Around it the frame around his baseline is one of something massive is coming up And he's already preparing the framework by which we we view it But within it what I would say is we see a lot of illustrators and we see them symmetrical as well So he really when he really gets going into what is Potentially some factual elements around this that the the recycle who was there We see a lot of symmetry and we see a lot of description with his hands Greg what have you got on this one? Yeah mark. I love the fact you picked up on him searching Now this is 10 years later. This is 2006 his handlers are gone. He's got no money There's no one around to help him out We're going to see a difference in his baseline here He makes a huge mistake a big gamble for a guy like me sitting across from him And that is he searches for information in his visual access and cues So when you ask him what he missed first of all, I would have said nothing I wouldn't have given you something to come back and ask what was it you missed and I certainly Would not volunteer that information and when we coach witnesses when we're talking to people about deposition We're going to say that don't volunteer anything and when you do it try to keep it concise and simple So you don't have to rifle around in your head looking for information What he does is go back up to his left back to a visual access and cue We saw him use when he was rifling through his closet to count shoes Ding ding ding there's a great indicator that when he remembers something visual He's going to go up because he's trying to remember what it was he missed and he's thinking about it But other than that he looks like the earlier guy his pitch tone and cadence are all strong He comes in in an emotional state and see his eyes are drifted down right He sits and starts to grip that chair and mark. I think that's the anxiety that you're seeing He does 50 50 eye contact but makes eye contact and locks to make his point That's oj if you go watch him in the 70s and 80s. That's him. That's who he is and His blink rate is low. So it's showing that he's getting comfortable He stares into space when he's working on a memory We all do that when he's thinking about something and trying to work out details But then he shows anguish in his brow when he's trying to remember that you can see it in here He gets comfortable and then he starts moving around he uses one hand and the other hand He gets a little irritated when she interrupts him if you notice his face He gets a little irritation in his face and then he has Some disdain or disgust or maybe a little bit of both when he's talking about Nicole wearing clothes that were too tight chase. What do you got? Yeah, totally agree with you I'm excited because we finally get to have a discussion about digital flexion Where we can see a perfect example of it And right at the beginning when you're talking about him getting a little stressed on the face We can see the hands kind of dig into the chair So we're we're seeing the fingers curling at the moment of discomfort right there and it's in plain sight right as she says the day the words the day And I think right when he's recalling how many times he's missed the recital there's some anguish there on the face I think that might be just anger at himself And there's a lot of nine o'clock eye movement So he's going over there to to our nine o'clock as you're watching this video with us. It's nine o'clock to you But he ships to two o'clock like Greg you were saying when he's thinking about Nicole's outfit and what she wore and and visualizing the outfit that she had on and finally what I think is important to note here is There's some I think concealed Anger right at the moment where he's talking about who am I to tell her what to do And a little bit of a challenge because there's a sclera exposure when our eyes widen up And there's some anger on the face and you can see that right at that moment. Who am I to tell her what to do? So that's why I got on that one mark all right Uh, yeah, I think I'm done. I went in I think it's me Oh shoot. Sorry. Yeah All right, I think this is a great baseline and I think you're right I think he's he hasn't had his handlers for a while So he's before this he's like I got this. I've done this before but when he sits down She starts asking them questions That's when the the stress starts ramping up because this is the first question. She's asking This is the way it begins and and as you're right, Greg When he's up there searching around looking for his answers those types of things These are all things he's going to show us everything changes after this is the only time we seem relaxed like this He's back in the chair. He's got his hands over this way and then we see those things Start gripping up and we see the whole thing start to fall apart and he can't get a handle on it He's not he's trying to remember how to act, but he didn't have this answer prepared. That's why it's it's sort of like me it sort of shoots over here and it shoots over there and it stops and starts again and This lets us know that he doesn't have professional help on this But he thought he had it together when he went into it And I think it sort of falls apart on him and and he understands that and realizes that Let's talk about the day Of june 12th 1994. Yeah Tell me about getting ready for your daughter's recital. Just tell me take me through the day It was a long week. I had been to three or four cities that week I was totally exhausted. My friends in new york tried to get me to stay in new york Uh that friday play golf Saturday and then go straight to chicago where I had to be monday morning But my daughter was having a recital and I had already missed I think the The Week of two before I had I was out of town and I had missed And missed something I forget what it was uh something that my daughter was having So I couldn't miss this so I said I got to be there for the recital and I flew into town and I just wanted to go there See my daughter and leave And I talked to nicole briefly that day. She had called and asked if I could get If I could get there early and hold seats and I said I don't think so Which she did and when we got to the recital She had actually held me a seat with her and the two kids, right? There was something uh that you write in the book about what nicole was wearing Yeah, you know, we it was like it was like it almost like she was trying to be a teenager again You know dating all these much younger guys Wearing the shortest tightest thing she was wearing and sometimes you think something's inappropriate But you don't say anything. What am I what am I to say tell her what to do, you know All right, we good The chapter chapter six is called the night in question Uh and you write in the book now picture this and keep in mind that this is hypothetical hypothetical hypothetical Why don't you tell me what might have happened on the night of june 12 1994? And let's just walk through the night. Well, first of all, it's this is very difficult for me to do this It was very difficult for me because it's hypothetical I know and I accept the fact that people are going to feel whatever way they're going to feel You know, uh, they're gonna, uh You know some whatever whatever they want to feel in the book the hypothetical is, uh, Charlie pulls out Charlie This guy charlie shows up the guy where I've recently become friends with and uh Uh I don't know why you had been buying the coast house, but it told me you wouldn't believe what's going on over that and uh And I remember thinking well, whatever's going over there's got to stop right So we kind of hooked up together and uh, you know, I'm kind of broad stroking this We go over get in the bronco and go over it. Let's let's just go back and do the details. Where did you park? All right, greg what do you got? Yeah, so we start off he immediately barriers immediately and then he does something I call deflection smile It's a nervous laughter and a smile. I have a good friend who does it anytime. He's in in a bind. He goes That kind of thing and there it's a way to get away from something and a way to get away from what you feel Then he goes he uses an r request for approval as he raises his forehead when he's talking about how someone felt Then a lip lip compression that they're going to go to the house Interestingly, if you pay attention to this guy There's a lot of animation and what we would call residual emotion from that event that night If there were not if he was making this up Yeah mark I think he's probably an okay actor and whatever he was doing But he'd be a pretty damn good actor if he could bring up this much emotion talking about something that happened Um, but he goes back to the recall side when he said his friend said you're not going to believe what's going over there And he's emphatic with that when he does that emphatic behavior You see all that body language come up. See his face looking angry and then it's gotta stop That's not something you would say if you're recalling a story that you didn't live So this starts to sound real and if he intended it to sound real good for him He also then does a Entitans his lips. You call that a verbal tick. I think mark and then he goes to downright eye accessing So let's talk for just a minute about we talk all the time about emotional accessing It doesn't matter what you've stored in your head Remember, I tell you single sensory channel matters I can ask you all the questions there are about this coffee cup today But if I'm punching you in the face when you're looking at the coffee cup later, guess what you're gonna remember You might remember the coffee cup But you'll remember me punching you in the face because it was an emotional thing So these emotions code things differently. So when a person's recalling something, it's very emotional You watch he shrinks his body gets kind of turtled But you'll watch as he goes more into this story His head's gonna become heavier and heavier and heavier and it affects body language. Scott, what do you got? All right Everything changes here. That was a great baseline at the top for what we're getting ready to see He doesn't have somebody saying as he's giving as they're rehearsing these answers. He doesn't have somebody saying. Yeah, man That's great. That's great. Do it like that. He doesn't have that So a lot of his confidence is gone He his confidence is like at a low here as we go through because it's been 10 years And he's had people point at him. He's had people yell at him. He's had people staring at him Um because of what he did and because he got in trouble for that again I believed didn't he get it wasn't he found guilty of that? Uh In another court civil suit He had a civil suit that gave all of his property away because he didn't get the criminal thing And then he had another instance where he went and stole some of his former possessions Right, but wasn't he found responsible for the deaths in the civil suit? That's civil. Yeah, he was found civil. That's where okay Okay, great So he's had people holler in that at him So his confidence is really low on this and you can see it That's where this this really freaky weird little laugh and smile thing comes from he does it a couple times in that first group But now I think that's sort of what he he goes back to has done his whole life I don't know the guy never met him But I would assume that's part of his personality Because he keeps going back to that and there was nobody there to say dude, don't do that Don't you know, let's stop right there. Let's try it one more time and get rid of that little laugh Try not to do that. Nobody said that to him Uh Oh, we see his hands when at first when he's talking like this and in the in the video before this everything's great But then he comes up and he clasps his hands and then his left hand grabs his right hand and starts squeezing That's an adapter adapters are things we used to get rid of that built up stress and tension So the tension and stress is building here and he's trying to get blow some of that off by doing that This is becoming A tense situation for him because he's thought about it But he hasn't been through I don't think the questions that might be answered and they obviously didn't send him to him as he goes through these We'll be able to tell that When he was in court and he was in and he was there every day like we talked about earlier chase brought up as well He went through that every day and people would train him every day and say Hey, here's how you do this. Here's how you do that He's one of those guys that thinks he's got that down But when he got in this situation where he was coming in to have somebody That stuff doesn't recall that quickly at all and you forget a lot of things and that's what's happened here That's why he looks so nervous and things start to go downhill for mark. What do you got? Yeah, so uh my headline on this is wtf. Where is this going? I literally i've never seen this video before I literally threw my pen down and had to walk around the room. It was so astonishing This is the kind of body language It's the kind of behavior that goes on when somebody's telling an alien abduction story that that didn't quite So there's some elements there that are accurate, but there's a whole bunch of fantasy going on So so i've literally got here. Where is this attached to fact because it is attached to fact in some areas And where is it attached to complete fantasy? This this charlie person in my mind may as well have been a gnome called derrick who sprouts out of the ground from nowhere Suddenly charlie's involved like what where's charlie come from? What the hell is who's this charlie person like a gnome an alien from nowhere just sprouts into there Um purely anyway, so here's so here's what we can Put our finger on is that purely hypothetical? Yes We get this slow blink of recognition So I often talk about a slow blink of recognition Go and look at his blink on that. That's a blink of recognition that he's saying. Yes That's the route we want to go down. This is utterly hypothetical it's utter fantasy going on here, uh and then um the the laughing and uh bitterness Uh, so he laughs, but we get bitterness in the mouth from the interviewer. So the interviewer Knows something is wrong here. There's a bad taste around this particular uh element anyway for me It completely though it is attached to reality in many many places. There's elements here which are utter fantasy utterly made up Uh chase what do you got on this one? Yeah, I agree with you guys y'all kind of got everything but When he's saying I remember thinking whatever's going on it has to stop he accidentally slips into recall of an actual story in my opinion And he uses genuine memory recall eye home. So his eyes are moving the exactly the same And when he's saying I'm not going to say the details He uses the same eye eye movement as regular and I think this statement alone Indicates that there are details that exist about the crime that he is aware of so There's some little compression right at the beginning of this And I think when we see someone squeeze their lips together that usually means that there's some with withholding of information going on or there's withholding Of of some sort happening So we see that right at the beginning and you guys talk about this barrier here and the lips are also another barrier that are that's being formed Uh as he's preparing psychologically for the answer that he's going to give him to this question So I think what we're seeing here to me looks like genuine recall and Just peppered in with some fictional elements. So mark like you're saying it's Fabulous alien abduction story So maybe next one we'll have a humalian You want the number one indicator? His attorneys are gone. No attorneys said. Oh, Jay. I got a great idea. Let's go Tell people if I'd killed her here's I would have done it. No attorney every positive The chapter chapter six is called the night in question Uh, and you write in the book now picture this and keep in mind that this is hypothetical hypothetical Why don't you tell me what might have happened on the night of june 12th 1994? And let's just walk through the night. Well, first of all, it's this is very difficult for me to do this It was very difficult for me because it's hypothetical I know and I accept the fact that people are gonna feel whatever way they're gonna feel You know, uh, they're gonna, uh You know some whatever whatever they want to feel in the book the hypothetical is uh Charlie pulls up Charlie This guy charlie shows up the guy where I recently become friends with and uh I don't know why you had been buying the coast house, but it told me you wouldn't believe what's going on over that and uh And I remember thinking well, whatever's going over there's got to stop right So we kind of hooked up together and uh, you know, I'm kind of broad-stroking this We go over get into Morocco and go over it. Let's just go back and do the details. Where did you park to the detail? That blows my mind. Yeah, I'm saying yeah. Yeah, but he was hurting for money. He was hurting for money at that point I get it bad Yeah, I get it. That's not a smart one. Yeah, I get there's a lot of stuff I might do for money That's probably a dumb one You park and I but that'll go in the alley right the park in the alley And you put on A wool cap and gloves uh in hypothetical I put on the cap and gloves right and um You reached under the seat for um a knife I always kept a knife a knock car for the crazies and stuff because you can't travel with a gun And I remember charlie saying you ain't bringing that and I didn't all right, but I believe he took it Charlie took the knife. Yeah in the book. Yeah. Yes. So The back gate you go through the back gate. Yes And it was open or broken or I don't recall. Okay. I go to the front and I'm looking to see what's going on. Um And I can see that It appears like the cold had fought I had Candles all the time. She really did to keep her overhead down. I think that music was on and While I was there a guy shows up So ron goldman comes in the back gate. Yeah, I got I really didn't recognize I may have seen him around But I really didn't recognize him to be anyone and uh and In the mood I was in I started having words with him He says to you I just came by to return a pair of glasses. Judy left them at the restaurant Yeah, words to that effect. Yes, and And uh, I don't know if I bleed it or didn't believe it. It was pretty much immaterial because You know, uh, I was more concerned about everything that that everything that was going on, you know, and uh Fed up with it. I guess All right, chase what he got it starts off with him saying in the hypothetical and I think this suggests a couple things he wants it to be Repeated a whole bunch of times So maybe when we give our opinions at the end, there'll be hypothetical opinions of what we think happens since that's a protective phrase magic protection phrase good idea But I think I think this uh suggests there's a different version of events by his tone that is accurate and probably similar Then he says in the hypothetical again We suggest of an existing narrative that's just playing along with what we're seeing here. And when he says charlie took the knife Uh, he says in the book here But nowhere else And this might suggest His disagreement with this and if he's guilty He took the knife himself. So this might be a distancing statement And I think that's a very Interesting thing to note there when he's saying I I go to the front and I'm looking to see what's going on He accidentally shifts into the present moment when he says looking The interviewer might have caused this But keep in mind when you listen to this question again, the interviewer didn't directly put him into present Which is where the interviewer saying, okay, so you're going inside and what do you see now? like That wasn't necessarily done there And he does this again a few times And when he says a guy I didn't recognize his eye home goes to genuine recall He squints his eyes while he's trying to recognize goldman in his statement And I think this suggests a very genuine recall and a genuine memory because he's saying I didn't recognize him He's squinting and he looks confused like he doesn't recognize a person But then the interviewer uses a present tense word which is helpful in Many cases to get people into the memory a little bit deeper and interrogators use it therapists use it So there's genuine recall here and facial expression movement that matches Everything in the story. So his face is Is narrating the story with him and I think Through the difficulty with memory and the concern with What all is happening here his behavior suggests a very Very truthful recall What we're seeing here most of it Scott what do you got? all right Everything he's talking about he's talking about it like it happened He didn't say if I was going to do this I would have done this if this supposed to be hypothetical It doesn't sound very hypothetical as he explains it because he doesn't say if I was going to do it I would have done this and I would have to have done that And if we did this we would have to have done this or I would have done this But he says I did this I remember this happened. Here's how I did this Everything is in the wrong spot as far as where he should place himself in the story If it's hypothetical it should have been from a tactical point of view not from the ease of flowing through what actually happened And I'm gonna sit there on that Greg what do you got? Yeah, turn the sound off here Go back to the baseline video at the beginning of this. I think it's number eight turn the sound off and tell me what's different I think you're gonna find this looks like a guy telling his story in baseline They're a handful of things that he does differently here up front He does sacred space where he's got his hands crossed his hands together And he starts milling his fingers and his his calf rises something's going on That's when he's trying to say look this is hypothetical But then he gets amused and he goes back into it and when he says charlie and the knife He gets emotional accessing again. He illustrates with his eyes. He's doing everything he normally does And then he gets to I do not recall. He you know, he misses something there But he does upright visual memory accessing like the shoes and the recitals when he talks about walking across the front yard That's alarming if this is hypothetical and he's recalling something he's seen you go back and look at those baselines There's something there He all the illustrators and all the adapters and all these things are telling the story correctly He shows emotion and concern chase dead on about this guy goldman His brow goes up. He's showing some concern there and then he goes back down to emotion his jaw starts to work There's some residual emotion there And then he kind of goes to this anger thing where he puts his chin down his head down and he's telling with words And then he says fed up guys this one if you go back and look at his baseline This looks like a guy telling a story mark. What do you got? Yeah, I agree calm body language pleasure when he's tell in the face when he's telling this story Illustrators symmetrical. He's being honest. The only dishonest thing is the word hypothetical essentially the Much of what he's saying Actually happened much of it Fed up with it. We see anger in the eyes So I think we can start to look now for a motivator here And and understand where this comes this comes early on Being fed up with it. So the anger starts early on To to to greg and chase your points of of this guy. Did he know this guy? Well, there's some body language to suggest that and also Could have been anyone did not recognize seen him around you can't have all three You're not allowed to have all three of those things could have been anyone Didn't recognize him seen him around. Well, then you've probably seen him around, haven't you? You do know who this person is um, okay I uh, believe Charlie took the knife Well, no, either Charlie took the knife or he didn't take the knife But you believe he took the knife, but you're certain about other things Here's the thing about This gnome Charlie that springs out of nowhere if Charlie take hypothetically if Charlie takes the knife This isn't premeditated If oj takes the knife and he's already angry at the point You've now got premeditated murder and not a crime of passion now. I'm not a lawyer I'm conjecting here and I'm being hypothetical as well But Charlie would be a useful gnome to spring out of nowhere at this point if you had premeditated Based on information and gone into a situation with a knife in your hand. So let's see What happens to this knife story Down the road How well does this knife show up? Is it handled like a knife gets handled when you take it from somebody? Is it handled like you handle a knife when you've taken it along? Yourself because that's an important issue for how we the public respond to him Is he a pre Hypothetically, is he a pre meditated murderer? Or is he somebody involved in a crime of passion with somebody who dresses? inappropriately at kids concerts and hangs around with people like strangers from nowhere That's the real issue here for me You park in the hypothetical go in the alley You park in the alley and You put on A wool cap and gloves In hypothetical I put on the cap and gloves right and um You reached under the seat for um a knife I always kept a knife a knock car for the crazies and stuff because you can't travel with a gun And I remember charlie saying you ain't bringing that and I didn't all right, but I believe he took it Charlie took the knife. Yeah In the book. Yeah. Yes. So The back gate you go through the back gate. Yes And it was open or broken or? I don't recall. Okay, I go to the front and I'm looking to see what's going on. Um, and I can see that It appears like nicole had fought I had Candles all the time. She really did to keep her overhead down. I think that music was on and uh while I was there a guy shows up So ron goldman comes in the back gate. Yeah, I got I really didn't recognize I may have seen him around But I really didn't recognize him to be anyone and uh and In the mood I was in I started having words with him He says to you I just came by to return a pair of glasses. Judy left them at the restaurant Yeah, words to that effect. Yes, and And uh, I don't know if I bleed it. I didn't believe it. Uh, it was pretty much immaterial because You know, uh, I was more concerned about everything that that everything that was going on You know and uh, let's uh fed up with it. I guess and You get into a fight nicole comes out verbal a verbal a verbal fight Got a little loud and by that time, uh Nicole had come out And we started having words about who is this guy? Why is he here? What's going on? And she says this is my house get that the f out of here. Yes, and uh Which I didn't like because once again, this is the same person and if you read the book You'll see some things that happened in the two weeks leading up to this That were uh, very very irritating, you know And I think charlie had followed this guy in one make sure it was no problem And he brought the knife As things got heated, uh, I just remember the cold fell and hurt herself And uh, this guy kind of got into a karate thing And I said, well, you think you can kick my ass and I remember I grabbed a knife I do remember that portion taking a knife from charlie and to be honest After that, I don't remember except i'm standing there and it's all kind of stuff around and um um What kind of stuff but and stuff around you know, we I hate to say this I know we got to back up again That's okay. I'm gonna back up. All right. That's all right. I'm gonna back up to try to make people think that I'm No I'll go first on this one This is my opinion and of course it's hypothetical just like everything else. O.J. is talking about I think we just heard him confess to murder Of those two people. That's exactly what it sounds like. He talks about it like he walked through it He doesn't talk about it in a hypothetical sense would have had what would have happened was this what would have happened was that He just told us he murdered those people. That's my opinion and that's my hypothetical opinion along there with oj Um, that's what I think's happening there I'm gonna leave it there. All right chase. What do you got? Yeah, so there's a whole lot here. There's genuine recall Uh, let's just look at right at the beginning when he says very interesting genuine frustration a micro expression of anger We know that it's genuine because it happens at the precise moment that he's talking about being irritated There's a huge difference of those micro expressions either matching up or not And when he says this karate thing Ron Goldman was an actual third-degree black belt. I think And it's interesting. O.J. took Knife fighting only two months prior to this happening. He actually was trained in knife combat And there's some genuine Glabella movement when he's saying do you think you can kick my ass? And there's truthful recall about taking control of the knife from charlie or taking the knife And there's all kinds of stuff around when he's saying stuff instead of blood I think he's uncomfortable talking about blood because he likely saw it in real life And it's well known that he had a problem with blood If it wasn't real event Mentioning or recalling it would be uncomfortable and if it was written in a book It would not be uncomfortable So when he finally mentions blood, there's visual movement In the eyes for a visual scene. So his eyes kind of go up to that And if it was hypothetical and you wrote a book about it, this would look wildly different wildly different According to me hypothetically, that's my opinion. Greg. What do you think? Yeah, I'm not going to go into a lot of detail here. I'm going to point out a couple of things He does show anger. He illustrates with his whole body He's telling a story just like he did in the baseline go all the way back and look He's got some downright eye-accessing as he describes things that are going on. Here's the key He talks about attacking Ron Goldman with a knife But Nicole hurt herself We never hear another thing about Nicole. What happened after Ron Goldman? Did he get in a rage and kill her too? In the hypothetical Well, we know that most people who harm others soften severity and they say hurt himself Was murdered that kind of thing this sounds an awful lot like well, I don't owe that guy anything He's got he could have been anybody But I do a horse something and it gets awfully quiet and That paired with the fact all of his illustrators all of his adapters everything He's doing fit and anger at the right time and residual emotion Sure make this look like a real story and not like something he wrote down the book mark. What do you got? Yeah, one thing on this he does put pressure on the idea that he did take the knife from charlie It's it's an it's a Interesting stress. I think why does he need to I think say it twice and put stress on that? I think there's an ellipse. So that's interesting And and I don't disagree that there may be some some truthful recall around that chase I worry about the words that he uses around that and then we hear Several slaps on the chair to see people off of that area And self soothing with his thumb on the chair now this could be Genuine recall of the event and it's truly troubling for him. Why wouldn't it be? Or it could be that that is inaccurate what he's talking about there And why would that be important in my mind though? I'm not a lawyer, but hypothetically if I was I would be saying you don't want a story where you decided this act before you'd shown up and you took a knife into that gun It's got to just show up Yeah, so so I worry I get what you're saying there chase and I still worry About it there. That's all I got on that you get into a fight. Nicole comes out a verbal a verbal fight Got a little loud and by that time Nicole had come out And we started having words about who is this guy? Why is he here? What's going on and she says this is my house get that the f out of here. Yes, and uh Which I didn't like because once again, this is the same person and if you read the book You'll see some things that happened in the two weeks leading up to this That were uh very very irritating You know, uh And I think charlie had followed this guy in one make sure there was no problem And he brought the knife as things got heated, uh, I just remember the cold fell and hurt herself and This guy kind of got into a karate thing And I said, well, you think you can kick my ass and I remember I grabbed a knife I do remember that portion taking a knife from charlie and to be honest After that, I don't remember except I'm standing there and it's all kind of Stuff around and um What kind of stuff but and stuff around and we I hate to say this I know we got to back up again Charlie the lady in the lake You guys were longer not touch going to go you wrote in the book. I had never seen so much blood in my life Covered you're covered the scene. Can you describe it? I I it's hard for me to describe it. I'm telling I don't think any two people could be Murdered the way they were without everybody been covered in blood And of course, I think we've all seen the grizzly pictures after so yeah, I think everything was covered would have been covered in blood All right, greek. What do you got? So we see either a morse tongue jut Or a mouth grooming either way a sign that he's feeling stress There's real and genuine sadness that so much blood you can't miss it that distaste it At with the tongue jut and then there's a chin boss and a lip person going on So there's some shame or emotion or something going on in his face And he slows his K dense to a place that I only usually hear just as a person is ready to confess Those are what I'm looking at and those are powerful mark. What do you get? Yeah? pause of emotion before the word murdered Bottom teeth of anger Before that as well. So I think we can attach a motivator to it agree with the tongue jut. Absolutely covered in blood eyes of anger there so again all points towards The emotion of anger around this whole event chase. What do you think? Everything's genuine To me when he's saying so much blood, there's chin boss movement Which indicates shame or guilt and his chin lowering which is a protective gesture out of fear And we see a very genuine looking emotional reaction to this instead of just reading from a book It's all I got All right, Scott. What do you got? Yeah, okay. Pretty much the same thing This is this is one of the first times we see genuine um Not grief but but sadness in this and this really bothers him in an emotional Spot because like Greg was saying he slows down He starts talking solely about what happened and he's recalling this and he's going through it And the horror of having all that blood around and it was all over him because he talks about And this goes against what he said at the beginning when there how there couldn't have been any blood I took a quick shower and all that but he had to to take a shower get that all that off him And then move forward from there. So I think this is we're actually seeing true emotion from him in this one You wrote in the book. I had never seen so much blood in my life Yes Covered you're covered the scene. Can you describe it? I I it's hard for me to describe it. I'm telling I don't think any two people could be Murdered the way they were without everybody been covered in blood and of course I think we've all seen the grizzly pictures after so yeah, I think everything was covered would have been covered in blood And what goes through your mind at a time like that? I don't know. It's like what happened You write about removing a glove before taking the knife from charlie Uh, you know, I had no conscious memory of doing that but obviously I must have because they found a glove there And blacking out Have you ever blacked out before? Not to my knowledge. No, no, of course Of course if something like this would take place in anybody's life if it were to happen I would imagine it's something that you would probably automatically Have trouble wrapping your your mind around it It was horrible. It was absolutely hard All right mark, what do you got? Yeah, the interviewer bitter taste in the mouth I talk about bitter taste a lot and you're just going to see it with a little indents here There is something really distasteful for her around this quite obviously and And then she does a hard swallow as well So there's potentially some stress around this quite obviously her eyes go down Is that because of his dominance or is she she's showing Showing social disdain Let's move on a little bit and work out which one he counters with a plea It was horrible. So he's trying to have an alibi. Look, this was a horrible thing for me as well feel pity for me And then we see a micro display Of I would say disdain from him the pity didn't work I think she shows him disdain and horror horror then disdain by looking away He pleads for pity. She doesn't pity him He displays disdain for her. That's why I think we don't like him in this situation because unconsciously We'll be picking up his disdain for her disdain Greg, what do you got on this one? Yeah, he starts off with I don't know and he moves his head in what you expect very short strokes when a person's uncertain Because they're not going to go no no no that's certainty. I don't know what's happening He his head is down into the right. That's where he's living now His head is actually starting to get heavy and pulling his body over and that happens when you get to a very emotional state And he left eye accesses again back to baseline It looks a little different because his head is down But he does this back up left eye access and go back and look every time he does that It's a visual question and he's answering He has a fleeting emotion in his face in a way you don't typically see in Adults and sophisticated people which oj clearly is you see it in children before they understand controlling emotion There'll be a mix of emotions flush across their face and fleet and it's hard to even catch them If you took this and slowed it down, you would see a lot of confusion and anger and all those things He shows a lot of different emotions there and then He is now moved to a point where he can't get out of that emotional piece And he says wrapping his mind around it and then when he's asked a question about the blood and all that He does the brave face. That's the brave face smile when somebody's dealing with a very complex thing You've seen it all the time when somebody's dealing with a complex thing in their life and you ask them and they go Everything's okay Chase, what do you got? Yeah, I agree with you guys I think he accidentally begins to use distancing language here And this is important because I think he forgets the hypothetical part And he's using the distancing language for his own comfort and not to appear to be innocent So this is a rare case when we're going to see something like that when he's trying to keep it hypothetical and using distancing language and There's a lot of language here. He uses I'll just say this one thing He uses body narration Which is where he illustrates a story that he's trying to do something and he shows it with his hands Which is his baseline for truth in every other video To illustrate the difficulty of wrapping his mind around exactly what had just happened and what's actually going on So we're seeing the hallmarks Of his truthful behavior While he's describing this whole thing and how horrible it was and he's the only other thing here that really stuck out Was his blink rate skyrockets to about the mid 80s during this Scott, what do you got? I think the most important thing here is where she says have you ever blacked out before and he says What not to my knowledge how many times have you heard somebody say not to my knowledge and they weren't being honest with you OJ is famous for for having this temper that just pops off in a rage and just going off if you'll watch those Documentaries about him and though there'll be somebody in there each time that says That that he had problems with anger they had an anger problem That stemmed from when he was younger and some other things that happened, you know from being a thug as a kid or whatever So I think he did black out and that's because and and that's because he said, um, I don't recall But that's when all that happened hypothetically is if he did black out That's happened before and he's going through that again and that kind of scares him I think it bothers him. We're seeing again. We're seeing more true emotion here and he's reliving this as he's going through it He would have said it would have been horrible, but he says it was horrible So I think we're just he's not even I don't think he's trying anymore. He's just going right through it and tell us what happened And what goes through your mind at a time like that? I don't know. It's like what happened You write about removing a glove before taking the knife from charlie Uh, you know, I had no conscious memory of doing that, but obviously I must have because they found a glove there I'm blacking out Have you ever blacked out before? Not to my knowledge. No, no, of course Of course if something like this would take place in anybody's life if it were to happen I would imagine it's something that you would probably automatically Have trouble wrapping your your mind around it It was horrible. It was absolutely horrible Then you see bloody footprints and you decide to take off Yes, actually, I believe charlie kept saying we got to get out of here And In the book you describe taking off your shoes your pants and your shirt and dropping it in a bundle. Do you remember that? Uh Yes And Do you remember what happens next? Because what are you going to do with it? You know, somebody's got to get rid of uh, as you may have called during the trial and said wear the bloody clothes So somebody had to get rid of the bloody clothes And you had left your keys and wallet in your pants pocket and you had to go back and get it You know, to be honest, uh, I think I know that to be true. Yes. Yes Um, and charlie is the serical screaming jesus christ rj jesus christ And you tell him just yeah, he's in a panic. He was in a panic and I'm telling him to shut up. Let's get out of here So you get back in the car You taking your clothes Put them in the bundle and drove back and in Parked the block away because I knew the limo would be there and came across the backyard through the two tennis courts and you know Came through the house. So you went through the neighbors neighbors. Yeah, he had a tennis court Then I had a tennis court and you go into the house and What happens in the house? I I I ran upstairs to take a shower I actually ran upstairs and took some of my bags and came back downstairs and put them out front Chase, what do you got when he says to be honest? I know that to be true I think that's that's it There's some factual conveyance in the glabella there and then kind of realizes there's a mistake He makes a facial expression we see in paul ekman's research for embarrassed or social guilt The lips are kind of pulled back the eyes roll up a little bit and there's an eyebrow flash and He shifts again back to the present when he's saying charlie is being hysterical. He is in a panic And when he's doing this backyard thing going through the tennis courts He's spatially oriented and he's narrating with his hand again his baseline And it's even uh, if he's spatially oriented person It might be a coincidence, but his neighbor's house is to the east So as if he's looking at a map or as if he's looking at a map of his neighborhood He's moving in that direction and kind of going across from one tennis court to the other and When he says I ran upstairs take a shower he edits that and then adds more details for greater accuracy And I think that's the one thing that tells it is he's not talking about what's in the book At all is what it looks like to me hypothetically scott, what do you think? We every time charlie comes up. We see an adapter charlie equals adapters Because he's guarding that so hard not to say that guy's name the real person's name That was a part of that He just want to implicate them in this at all because they got away with it at this point So every notice every time charlie comes up. He either bites his lip. He'll squeeze his hand He'll take a deep breath his nostrils will flare every time that guy's name comes up because He says He when he refers to charlie he says he was somebody he just met. No, this is one of his old friends. I think when he talks about Um Taking the knife from him those things He makes that's when he's on point for all those things That's the only time he really comes around and make sure he's on point for making sure We don't find out who that person is at that point. I have a whole lot more to go with it But greg what do you got? Yeah, i'm going to tell you this one makes me wonder because there is a huge Deviation baseline in this video now you would think he would be doing the same exact storytelling He had done about the murder But he isn't every time he's asked visual cue every time he's asked a question. He right eye accesses Which is not his norm. We know he's going left for for memory so far But when he does this it makes me go why why is he doing that now? He does do some emotional eye accessing and that shame that you're showing Chase, I think he does it when he's asked a question. They should know the answer to and he doesn't So my brain wants to try to conjecture and figure that out, but that's not what we do We don't try to read his mind. We just know that he is breaking his baseline here So it feels like something about this part of the story is not true Whatever it is And it doesn't look as believable as when he was telling a story about the murder Maybe it's because he hasn't thought of it. Maybe it's something else Maybe it's all together that all this is a lie and this is a place that he has not worked out the details Because that look of is kind of him asking for Did that sound okay is what it is you can see it Request for approval all that social guilt all that stuff at the same time mark. What do you got? This one makes me concerned about the whole story So so I would say here's a potential here for some people the truth will set you free And that moment of freedom for him could be causing a deviation in his baseline. He's lent right forward into this Confession potentially right now and that's this is a new body language for him right forward into it For some people the truth is hard to face And you see that with the interviewer who is lent right back out of it So, you know one thing that comes out for me is a very different feeling around this story between him and the interviewer Then you see bloody footprints and you decide to take off Yes, actually, I believe charlie kipson. We got to get out of here And In the book you describe taking off your shoes your pants and your shirt and dropping it in a bundle Do you remember that? Yes And To remember what happened because we're gonna do it up You know somebody's got to get rid of uh as you may have called during the trial and said wear the bloody clothes So somebody had to get rid of the bloody clothes And you had left your keys and wallet in your pants pocket and you had to go back and get it You know to be honest, uh, I think I know that to be true. Yes. Yes Um, and charlie is the serical screaming Jesus christ rj jesus christ and you tell him to yeah, he's in a panic. He was in a panic and I'm telling him to shut up Let's get out of here So you get back in the car you taking your clothes put them in the bundle and drove back and and Parked the block away because I knew the limo would be there and came across the backyard through the two tennis courts and you know Came through the house. So you went through the neighbors neighbors. Yeah, he had a tennis court Then I had a tennis court and you go into the house and What happens in the house? I I I ran upstairs to take a shower I actually ran upstairs and took some of my bags and came back downstairs and put them out front Did you kill the cold brown and ronk over absolutely not I couldn't kill anyone I couldn't do it. You know one of the things that probably saved my life When I was in that orange grove Was that my mother always told me that people commit suicide can't go to heaven I expect Hopefully I prayed at one day. I'll see nicole again. I have no doubt. That's what she is. I couldn't kill anybody All right mark. What do you got? Yeah, just one thing Absolutely not when we talk about this a great deal. It doesn't mean somebody's a liar But if you put that together with I couldn't kill anyone That has disassociated it from the two people who were murdered here And so those two things together I don't like the look of those chase. What do you got on this one? We see some deceptive stuff here mark that you talked about But a lot of what we're looking at here looks well Rehearsed and polished and beautiful. It looks as though maybe someone had written this There's fluid movement. It's a there is a confident denial Uh, and there's a whole lot here. There's he's comfortable using the term kill and he's comfortable using her name Uh, and the strongest accessing is at genuine Contemplation of whether he would be going to heaven or not or whether or not he should say that So one of those things is is most likely the case So it was an interesting video here And we're seeing some baseline and one or two deviations from it. Greg Yeah, you now know what oj's old baseline and new baseline is so now you should have picked up a lot of these things But he still has a self image still had his handlers at this point. He's maintaining that image He does front of the mouth talking. He's not telling. He's very very plaintive trying to get information You might expect him to be angry here, but this is two years later if he's been through court and and He's making a hell of a lot of eye contact for oj. If you watch the rest of this video He's not illustrating. So he's persuading whether that's good or bad different story. Scott. What do you got? All right. Well, we have let's go back to illustrators. This is the most for me it's the most important uh video we've got on here because when you're when you're When you illustrate when your brain is emphasizing specific words or phrases like I just in did just then specific words or phrases They land on the words and like I said at the very beginning They should happen on the words not like this And if you'll listen when he says I couldn't do it. He's hitting that table, but the hits come after he says each word Then he smiles Killing somebody talking about killing your ex-wife and someone else is not funny And there's no reason in the world to smile about that With those things being off of those illustrators being off and you listen to those taps and you'll see And then even smiling and sort of laughing about that that tells me Something's not right there. And I think we know what that something is Did you kill Nicole Brown and Ron Colton? Absolutely not. I couldn't kill anyone I couldn't do it. You know one of the things that probably saved my life When I was in that orange grove was that my mother always told me that people commit suicide can't go to heaven I expect Hopefully I prayed that one day. I'll see Nicole again. I have no doubt. That's what she is I couldn't kill anybody. So let's talk about this for a second mark What do you think is an overalls happening here? Well, look, I mean the main thing for me is if you want to go back and watch a video that would cause An expert in human behavior and body language to throw down their pen run around the room and go What on earth is going on here? Then go back to that video where charlie is first mentioned It's bonkers as far as I'm concerned chase. What do you think? Yeah, I think when you see these two wildly different times in oj's life It gets stunningly easy to contrast this behavior and granted time changes our baselines, but not that much Our objective here was to show these two different things and greg's brilliant idea to do this The biggest takeaway for me is that if there's a vanishing perpetrator, which means I'm not redirecting the conversation to who actually did the murder And oj isn't guilty This means that there is a large degree of protection Around whoever did do it. So there's either extreme guilty knowledge Or some actual guilt. Both of those things have a vanishing perpetrator ailment associated with them great. What do you got? Yeah, when I first watched this the jury's out for me because I looked and said I'm just going to run through it Double speed I picked the videos that had him walking through things When he was prepared and had somebody driving him he was very together His denials were very artistic his chaff and redirect once he got to this next one Once you compare his baseline to him telling the story. It's not a good look oj and if he's pulling this off Maybe he deserved an oscar for one of those movies. He was in mark. It's my opinion that this is pretty damning Scott, what do you got? I agree with you a hundred percent. I think we're we're seeing somebody Admit to this is all hypothetical just like what oj's saying in the hypothetical sense I would say in my opinion. I would say that he did this He admits to doing it and he puts everything in the And and and the perfect tense to do that with as he's talking about it Also, I think the person this guy charlie who he says was there with him I think that and I'm just just hypothetical. I could be You know, I could be totally wrong and probably am wrong But I think it was somebody who's really close to him and I think it might have been that Should I say the name or not? No Lady and the like Oh, okay Well, I think it was one of his best friends most likely that's where somebody very close to him Maybe not one of his best friends Somebody he's known a long time because he made sure to say he just met that person And he named him charlie and every time charlie comes up We we we see adapters that let us know that something's up there and he's trying not to get near that Or say that guy's name if you'd like to learn even more about body language and human behavior watch this video