 determining it today. I think that's a million dollar question and the reason it's a difficult one to answer is because one of the things that I remember when we used to buy digital media as opposed to television we were constantly told this is one of the most measured media there is you know you can make out how many people are watching the ad how many people are clicking through it how many people are going to a page the truth is the linkage between the metrics that you can measure and the metrics that matter like business are really really soft they work really well in worlds where you can for example direct them to a telecom site and make them recharge their coupons or take them to Bajaj Electricals and make them buy something but it's really hard to say how the awareness models are linking to offline sales and this is one of our biggest challenges as FMCG companies there are various models which are coming to play we are seeing I think everyone's trying to work on this world of what we are calling equivalency I think video equivalence or any equivalence is just to make the old marketer like me who understands GRP make me comfortable saying you know okay if you put it on YouTube you will get so many GRP equivalence but the reality is it's about reach and it's about you know frequency or awareness and as long as you can measure reach independent of say another medium like TV you should be able to measure the outcome and it's becoming increasingly better but I think there's still a long way to go establishing these linkages that's an interesting observation Shomnath how do you therefore look at in a category like yours where apart from the premium product category maybe the commoditization has taken in so today I go to a retail outlet and I start comparing the price what the retailer is telling me with various online apps that I have right so how do you operate in that environment before I speak into this topic I would like to give you a general perspective about how a market here thinks about whether it is a traditional marketing or digital marketing and in my opinion traditional marketing and digital marketing the relationship is like that of a husband and wife the role keeps changing depending on the industry that you are into right okay today you will see there are industry like a real estate rental business like say you know for example movie business they are mostly into digital marketing whereas if you talk about say a premium medical equipment business or aerospace engine business they are purely into offline marketing so depending upon which whatever category of business that you are into this marketing strategy will change and the marketing spent of your company will change so how are you determining how much you should put in digital marketing as a budget out of the entire mix like and rather just mentioned that you know this is a million dollar questions in every company that you go marketeers are struggling to find the exact answer and frankly speaking we do not have a exact answer to these questions but having said that I was just reading the recent Fiki KPMG report which has just come out it talks about like 2015 the digital spent has grown by almost 38.2 percentage over last year and which was almost like 60 billion rupees and it also talks about that in next four to five years the figure is going to touch somewhere around 250 billion Indian rupees so that means we are talking about multiplying four times in next four years so definitely in that context if you look at digital media is going to play a very very significant role in the times to come irrespective of whichever industry you are into that's that's how I look at it okay so let's look at telecom then said that in your category I think there's immense money getting spent in both traditional media as well as digital media right so therefore how are you allocating the priority in terms of what each of these media should deliver or in terms of product placement or product association are you experimenting with various products and therefore saying traditional media will push these products while digital media can you know deliver these kind of KPIs for us or is it that you are looking at it from a completely across the board entire portfolio products and therefore a typical marketing mix of traditional digital and the rest okay so first and foremost this term of digital marketing makes me uncomfortable there is actually nothing called digital marketing I've said it earlier and I'm gonna say it again there is only marketing in a digital world so consumers have started consuming more digital content they are on more digital media they are on more screens than they were in the in the past few years and so therefore suddenly we are talking about digital marketing but I'd like to point out to the fact that if marketers and because this is a marketing forum if marketers want to navigate the world where consumers have moved to a digital world some of the things which will pretty much stay constant and before we come to budgets if marketers don't know the value of consumer insights then whether it is the so-called traditional marketing or the so-called digital marketing which are actually kind of misnomers and themselves they won't be able to navigate the first thing that I believe honestly that there is nothing called digital marketing and therefore there is nothing called digital marketing budgets it depends upon where your consumers are what your marketing task is what you're trying to do with them so for example in our case in telecom there are two primary jobs that we have when it comes to reaching to consumers one is building our brand which we do through a mix of what we can call traditional media and what we can call digital media but the way I look at it is where the what is the consumer looking at it for example we've just launched a youth brand in Vodafone it's a brand called Vodafone U very early days yet a few weeks out in the market are we looking at it the same way that we look at the mother brand Vodafone not at all because the target consumer for Vodafone U the new youth brand is completely different it's very focused it's 18 to 24 year olds urban college going or first jobbers yeah so the way to reach to them the way to market to them the way to engage them will be completely different the second bit that we do is about selling our products and services and of course a lot of us know about that in terms of performance and there we have perhaps a little bit of more hard-coded metrics like Anuradha was saying which can lead from pure awareness and close the loop to online sale so you can actually see the result of that so the second bit is a little bit more hard-coded perhaps in industry like telecom the first bit is the interesting bit what are you going to do in such mediums that you are kind of unused to playing with which is what brings me to my second fundamental belief that no one actually no one in this room no one on this jury no one really is an expert at marketing in a digital world we are all students we are all struggling with trying to understand how do we market to consumers in a digital world because by the way consumers have moved much faster than marketers have and so therefore what is it that we can do to kind of catch up with them learn engage with them that's perhaps what my effort is as a marketer and the efforts of my marketing team and my partner agencies how do we do that I think one constant mantra at least that plays for me and works for me is experimentation we are constantly in experimentative mode with respect to marketing to consumers in a digital world for some of us in the room you might have seen that what a phone tried something during the IPL which just concluded over April and May we ran things like there was a what a phone super chair called Hakebake now that's entirely digital yeah we ran this crowdsourced largest online fan album where consumers click photographs with the much loved zoos and put it all together on to a digital album and we are doing that along with the Guinness Book of World Records again a very very digital led engagement activity because TV media does not allow me to do stuff like that but at the same time we deployed traditional TV if you may for a big network campaign called Supernet where we spoke about the fact that you could be a super dad you could be a super brother etc etc which a lot of consumers saw and loved so coming back it's basically about the target audience the marketing task that you want to do and therefore the choice that you really want to do in terms of media and therefore the budgets what I would spend on mother brand Vodafone the percentage of that would be fundamentally different to what I would spend as a percentage of my media budget on Vodafone you which is a segmented youth brand and that's the way at least that I would look at marketing to consumers in a digital world so just what you say with combining with some points that I rather mentioned it's a very interesting thing that today if you look at it the traditional media TV GRP for example what I rather mentioned took about 40 years to make the market years comfortable in terms of assigning a responsibility and then accountability of the spend to a certain action right digital and the way the dynamic platforms are growing is completely like you rightly said you are experimenting with various mechanisms so how do you assign accountability how do you assign or allocate that this is what I am looking for from this particular platform is there already certain matrices you are developing or is it purely on an experimentation basis I think my digital dashboard is far more complicated and far more comprehensive than let's say my television dashboard and stands to reason so when we advertise with specific partner platforms let's say like Google or Facebook first and foremost we get into annual joint business plans with them so we are basically talking about what is it that we can do together to build brands in a world where consumers are in an in an online digital world and therefore we look at stuff like brand lift studies combining it with a couple of metrics that give us some clue about whether if I advertised a specific piece of content if I boosted it by a certain percentage what is it really leading to in terms of engagement metrics in terms of awareness indices and we try and combine that with what's happening in terms of stuff like brand consideration what's happening in terms of what consumers are decoding in terms of social sentiment so there is this like Anuradha spoke about the attempt to do equivalence in terms of a measure which is Allah the GRP the TV GRP but also equated to is my source of awareness coming from digital yeah so all my brand surveys now have source of awareness of digital platforms as well like we used to do in the earlier days they used to be source of awareness TV cinema outdoor radio now we've kind of broken it down by digital platforms to say that where are you learning about this brand from yeah and it's by key platforms on which we invest our NP money is on that's the first bit the second bit is in terms of establishing equivalence in terms of if we have put specific investments behind targeted platforms are we actually working along with those platforms and some of that is actually getting ratified by third-party agencies to say whether that investment is yielding me the desired marketing outcomes that's I think fantastic in terms of the way