 Why do so many people debate whether Asians are still considered POC or not? What does that term really mean and why is it so confusing? It's a real simplification that comes from America and different types of people in the U.S. I feel like it's your alliances and how close you are to your actual culture. I consider Asians POC. I think that you can occupy different racialized spaces. Asian people have also gone through racialization in America. It's all like saying, oh like how in the past people called like black people colored, folks or whatever. Like obviously that's offensive. So I think in colored is also a term that was used to marginalize people and to demonize people. So I think in terms of person of color it puts the person in front of the color as well. I feel like all this terminology we're adding on to just kind of sugarcoat for the word minority or whatever. Different race other than white that we are. I'd have to say there isn't a lot of unity between like different people who like are part of like that group. I feel like there's just like a lot of racism. I think it builds community in a way to kind of remind us that we're all the outsiders of this country. So minorities need to stop coming at each other like with these different issues. Oh, who's on what side of the side? Just because you know what the white man is just laughing. I don't use the term. I don't like the term. Welcome everybody to the hot pot boys. You just saw a bunch of real answers from real people about this debate that is raging on on the internet right now. Whether Asians are considered people of color or not. Yeah, you got a range of responses. Yes, no, sort of maybe I don't even like that term altogether. Listen, if we would have interviewed 100,000 people, I'm sure we got 100,000 different versions of this answer. Yeah, I mean, this is a pretty tough topic, but you know us. We like to go at things. So please hit that like button, click that notification bell every time you want to see us analyze something difficult. You know, let's have this discussion. So we're going to hit it by the micro mid and the macro. What are the general opinions and reasonings for each answer? The mid is what does it even mean to be a POC and a BIPOC person? What does that entail? And then the macro is like, is this even a relevant term today? Yeah, I mean, you see this debate on Reddit. You see it on TikTok. You see people arguing about it in person. Let's get into it in the micro Andrew. Some people said, yes, absolutely Asians are POC. I think the best reasons were yellow was a color. Yellow is not white, even though everybody, of course, is a different shade of yellow. Some light yellow, some are like yellow brown. Anyway, we don't have access to white privilege. We're not part of, you know, Hunter Biden. We're not Donald Trump Jr. We're not part of the Illuminati while a lot of our parents don't speak English. High poverty rates, foreigner status, non-citizens. Documented discrimination against us. I mean, it's definitely happened. So on the no side, some people said no Asians are not considered POC. And it's often because, you know, our skin is is light. So if you put like a yellow marker on a white piece of paper, maybe it doesn't show up that much. It's not that contrasting, you know. And also that a lot of Asians in people's perceptions have not been good allies of black and brown movements, particularly recently. And also some people get the feeling that a lot of Asians look up to white people too much or just try to climb that white corporate ladder too much. And therefore in that process, you give in to white people and then you have to be nice with white people. Maybe you become whitewashed, whatever. Right, right, right. That was sort of the they either date whites or make whites money. And then the answer was sort of Asians are POC is like they're right in there, but they're probably never going to be leaders of the group. And they're definitely not defining of that group. I actually think that this was quite a common answer, Andrew, because it was sort of like if there was a BIPOC galaxy, Asians are in there. We're planets in the solar system, but we're like Uranus or Pluto. We're a little bit far out from the sun of where it's centered. Right, due to technicality and the scientists had to check us off. Yeah, Pluto's a planet. Interestingly enough, Andrew, we heard this from a lot of African Americans. They also said, I don't even like that term BIPOC or POC altogether. That sounds like color. People just reversed. Yeah. And I don't think it's necessarily coming from a certain political leaning conservative or liberal. I just think some people just don't feel that term. And there's an argument that it's outdated because the word colored is in there and then colored is kind of an outdated term. So I will give them a point that it's only used heavily in my opinion in corporate settings where they don't want to name races because they think it's like bad, right? And then in academia, I hear it a lot. Yeah. And it's it is important to note that this term has been around for a while, but it the definition has changed over time and it will probably continue to change to be honest. Did you know in 1960, Andrew, when it was designed out of the African American civil rights movement, it was designed to include Jewish people, Irish people, Italian people and Slavic like Polish people or Russians. So that was basically everybody who was outside of the circle of power from Anglo Protestant. So it can't be just based off skin color because if Irish people at one point were kind of POC and they're like the palest people, they're even whiter than Anglos. Then yeah, it's definitely like an interesting thing because basically it was basically like saying, Hey, you guys, you guys are also left out of the power circles of America and possibly potentially somewhat oppressed. So please get down with the people POC movement. That was 1960 and then in the 1980s, those other groups sort of became white and then it was black and Latino black and brown. And then now again, it has shifted again. Well, maybe every time there's like a new immigrant group to America before they get assimilated, there is like a sense of like, Hey, join our team against the Anglo white power structures so that we can like beat them together. Let's team up and then, you know, some people do and some people don't and it's also complicated nowadays. There are white Latinos, Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz. There are white Arabs blue eyes, but they're also Muslim. So that would put them on the opposite end of the Anglo Protestant, right? So it's, it's just complicated. Yeah. I mean, it's very complicated based off just purely skin color right now. Um, guys in the mid, uh, what is it really like used for and what is it like in tail? Yeah. Well, like I said to, uh, my previous point, Anglo Protestant being sort of like the dominant power in America. Those are the people who came over from England, Germany, France or whatever. That's sort of like colonized America, right? From the Native Americans placing them as like one a like powerful group, right? And then you have like, I guess juxtaposed against what black Muslim would be almost like the reverse of it. I'm not, I'm not saying all black people are Muslim, but I believe that that played into sort of the conversion of Muhammad Ali and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Yeah. And I think that when you talk about like a press versus a presser, obviously I think this is another way to put it because basically POCs would be considered the oppressed people. And then the, the conversation always leads into the oppression Olympics of who's the most oppressed, who's the most POC person. Obviously, you know, I mean, I do think that POC was developed in 1962 center. The concerns of black Americans, specifically historical heritage black Americans that had came from slavery, aka Adas. Right. So, and I still think would you agree, Andrew, that it does to this day? Oh, yeah, for sure. I think the center of it and we're talking about like the leaders of the movement, you would say, or the people who are, if there are gatekeepers to this term, it would be black Americans. Yeah. Right. But Andrew, you also did do a interesting interview with somebody who was black American who said, you know, they can, everybody can be BIPOC, but we don't have to all agree on everything. Yeah. I don't, I don't know if POC, if people see that term as a set of ideologies and rules and beliefs. Maybe you can be POC and BIPOC and not believe in the same things. I mean, it's, I don't know. So it just depends on how you determine it. Um, people like on a lighter side, there was like a lot of people that were saying like, all right guys, let's boil down this term. How do we define people? How do you know BIPOC, right? You're talking about BIPOC. How do you know if you're BIPOC or BIPOC and when you say BIPOC and you mean black, indigenous, Latin, Asian person of color. Yeah. Some people were like, Hey, if you like spices, you eat rice and maybe eating some food with your hand sounds, I then you might be POC or if your culture has a very spicy chili sauce to it. Right. Team seasoning. Come on. You guys know the jokes. They just write themselves. People of seasoning. Sure. There was like a comedian who said, um, if you follow the teachings of two POC, you might be BIPOC. Yeah. I mean, I think it is really, really complicated because some people like even within every group whether black, Latino, indigenous, Asian, they might have aspects of their life that does fit in with that and aspects of their life that might not. Yeah. You know what I mean? Cause it's like, okay, I love social movements and I love hip hop and I love supporting social justice or disenfranchised groups. Boom, boom, boom, right? I make my money from me and my family at a bank that is supporting like boom, boom, boom. Right. Right. Right. I mean, I think that on the, for a lot of people looking outs from the outside into a lot of Asians, a lot of Asians, I can't speak for everybody, but I don't think they always want to be white. I just think that they do want a lot of like the success that white people have or they see that as the most successful route. So in that process of climbing the white made structures, then they can appear to be white washing. Now some people are more white wash than others, you know, truly in their heart, but that's why it comes down to allegiances. People like there's this really quick. I'll end this point with this quick equation where it's like, how do you look? What culture do you identify as? And what are your allegiances? Is your heart with, you know, other minorities and do you support their causes? Then that would give you like your kind of general PO systems. Not that you can't have your own opinions and you got to buy in everything a hundred out of a hundred. But like it's just where do you like lean? I guess, right? That brings us to our macro, Andrew. Are these terms even relevant? Like I noticed that in Canada, they see like all the arguments that we have over like skin color in America and they try to use other terms like POC or BIPOC is actually like visible racialized minority or visible visibly racialized groups. Native Americans, which is a debated term turns into First Nations. Right. So I think that in Canada, they almost have like more technical terms that people don't argue over. Is that a thing or is it really just, you know, maybe we could learn something from Canada. So moving into the macro, Andrew, big picture, birds-eye view. Are these terms even relevant? Because it seems like using skin color in 2022, even though at one point it could have been more logical in a more simpler time. It seems like, I don't know. It seems a little bit reductive where obviously race, class, socioeconomic status, geography, education, it all is like comes into play. We're living in a more globalized world where Anglos or white people have always been the minority. You know what I mean? But, but so are we going to just center our identities around just how not white we are? Or like, what is that? I do think that using the term POC, it's such a broad and simple term that for a complex world, it probably doesn't work that well. I'm not saying it's a bad term. I just don't think it really allows for a lot of nuance because listen, look at the conversation we have to have about who is a POC. Clearly, the term has flaws if it's such a complicated and loaded term. And so I'm just trying to, so my question is for the people who want to use it, and I'm not saying it's wrong to use it, of course at all, but I guess what are your intentions of using it? Like, what is the agenda? Like, what are you trying to do by using such a broad term and then basing it off of skin color? You know, because back in the day, it was like the one drop rule. If you had one drop of black and you were considered black, but that's like a long time ago. But maybe things haven't changed. I don't know. Is this race war still going on? Yeah, I mean, I think that even a lot of African Americans, they maybe like to term at one point and they're like, you know what, we're not even getting our like concerns addressed enough. So I would like to just go back to being black. Yeah. No, I heard that a lot. Obviously, I'm just paraphrasing what somebody said. Yeah, I heard that a lot. I've read that a lot of for articles and stuff and, you know, different point of views because they're probably were like, yo, when this word began, it was just us and it was trying to center us and our concerns and now it's like folding in all these other things in there because it's true. And I'm not saying that they should or they shouldn't but like maybe black Americans don't care about deportation or something like that. Nor, I mean, why would they if they're not in that situation is like, you know what I mean? You know, you know, and kind of goes back to this. Some people were like, Hey man, I feel like it's just a term mostly white people are using and that white people are trying to use either to mean black without having to say black because it's uncomfortable for them or they're just trying to group everybody together because they have an agenda, you know? And so that's why you do have to look like I said, who's saying it and why are they saying it? Yeah, I mean, it is true that most people who are liberal even in a corporate or academic setting are obviously majority are still white. So who knows? I'm not saying that it is a good question. David, lastly to kind of round it out. Let's bring it back to the Asian perspective of like, does it feel like sometimes when these conversations pop up that Asians are just this alien group of people, we do not belong in this eternal battle that's been raging on for way too long. But it's like, we don't fit in all this. So it's like, some people just want to like, take themselves out. Obviously there are a lot of wealthy Asian immigrants who are coming over who happen to have light skin. So that also may confuse people too. But there's also ones coming over in abject poverty too. Yes, exactly. Look almost exactly the same, but we're different clothes. I would say this guys, long story short in a macro sense. My biggest like ending thought is that America right now was sort of like this really is like a sneaker, right? And at the very top, there's like this very tangled knot where the shoelaces should be tied in like a bow tie, right? And basically to tighten the shoe, the shoe has to be tight on the foot, right? Everybody's just pulling up the middle like cross laces but nobody's addressing the untangled mess of a knot at the top. And what we're just trying to do is talk about this to untangle it a little bit. I don't know if I can, I probably cannot, but I just try to contribute to it to be like, Hey guys, pay attention to the top of the shoe. Don't just tighten it by pulling up the middle. I'll say this, man, complex issues need complex discussions unless everybody's just going to be very, very nice to each other. But that doesn't look like it's happening right now. So you have to have these discussions and this is not the first discussion you've had or maybe not the last one, but hopefully it was helpful. Final takeaways. If we were to accept POC and BIPOC as terms, I would consider myself one, but I totally wouldn't get mad if somebody didn't consider me one. And I could totally understand why people would consider some Asians to not be. So I don't know if that's a good answer, but it's just kind of like, yeah, I get it. Everybody, let us know what you think in the comments down below. I think there's probably a lot of thoughts that you're having. Keep it civil, keep it productive, keep it interesting. Let us know how you feel because again, this is an ongoing discussion just because we made this video and we thought about it, it doesn't solve it. And it's kind of weird, you know, humans are so like tribalistic to your point, like, you know, that even who's white or who's a POC has changed like every 20, 30 years. And I don't know, maybe it'll take double the green Martians to invade for everybody to just be, all right, it's Independence Day. We're just one race. We're non-green people. Yeah. Well, but then that'll be messed up too because it'll be us against them. Hey, who knows what will happen in the future? It is interesting. Maybe it all turns into a sci-fi movie. Maybe there should be a sci-fi movie about this. Let us know what you think in the comment section below, guys. Like we said, we hit it the micro, mid, macro. We take the discussion where everybody else is scared to. Let us know, keep it civil, hop, hop, boys. We out. Peace.