 Tara, you are creating a program that you haven't been for. It's a new thing for you. And you're saying that you feel like you want to be transparent about that in your market and say, hey, let's build this, not build this together, but it's almost like you're saying, hey, this is a beta version of a future program that will be more fully fleshed. I'm going to recommend something here I'm going to say that you either fully say it's a beta program or you don't. Now, I think a lot of us who are here, a lot of us watching this or in this conversation right now, we are, we're caretakers, I mean, and we, not just caretakers, but we still have some perfectionistic tendencies that we're working through. And so it's very tempting for us to always think, I know, I know, this is your first program. Okay, yes, okay, granted, that's true. But the fact is you have been in other programs. You've seen how things are run. And truthfully, your first program is likely going to be better designed than a lot of the other first programs out there. That's my guess, number one. But number two is you're just conscientious, thoughtful person. So I just think that your first program is going to be better designed, better run than a bunch of other ones. In fact, I just think that's going to be a good experience for the member. And I'm just not saying this only to you, Tar. I think to pretty much everyone watching this, I think if you recognize those tendencies within you of a little bit of perfectionism, whatever, just know that I'm going to encourage you to go one direction or the other, either just fully say it's beta, which sometimes I do. I mean, you've seen me do this before. Like, oh, this is a beta course, like a beta. Or you used to say, hey, I'm launching a program. Don't even say this is the first one. It's going to have some kinks in it. Sure, but yeah. Okay. Well, my gut is to just be probably not calling it a beta then because what's kind of cool is like I even, I'm sharing a framework, like I have a picture. I'm like, look at you, I have a picture. That's especially because you've worked on your topic deeply for a long time. It's not like you just learned about this last month and then it's definitely a beta. No, this is, yeah. Yeah, okay. So that, so I'm not going to call it a beta. I'm not going to even kind of talk about working the kinks out, but there was also this part of me that wanted to say, okay, so do I want to incent sort of my first 10 or 20 people with a pricing, a pricing that's kind of like, hey, like I could see myself. My marketing plan was to go out to my past clients. So I'll even take a step back. This is my vision for the group is it's a launch, a launching off point for people who are like, oh, here's Tara, here's what she's all about. I wanted to get a sense of her and it's a landing pad. So meaning, oh, I just worked with Tara for three months. I'm going to, I don't need to do this weekly thing, but I could do a monthly thing with her and that feels really good for six months. And so it's kind of like sandwiching, kind of the newbies versus my seasoned clients and offering them something for both. So it's both a starting path as well as a maintenance program. Yeah, that's what I want. Yeah, that makes me super excited about this community and knowing that I'm not just going to be like, okay, we'll see you later. I'll check in with you every few months. Because it really is, it can be a lifelong learning of people kind of understand what's really happening. Yeah, totally. I like where you're going with this. I mean, it's nice that it can accommodate both. Ideally you would separate them out into two different programs. Okay. Because if you're thinking about it this way, maintenance means that people have already done some work with you. Yes. They're not, well, definition of a maintenance versus a newbie is a newbie is like, okay, I still need to go through your framework. Right. And so I don't know, maybe it may be, so my question is when you teach or when you guide during the program, are you going to feel torn? Am I talking to a newbie? Am I talking to somebody who is on the maintenance? Yeah, yeah. I don't know, maybe it's not, maybe it is truly equally the same for both. Yeah, well, I could see down the line having that newbie sort of course maybe, that newbie set of five or six videos. Which is really a good idea. I would recommend everyone watching this to have a newbie program, like an intro course, really. Right. And this is where you start. This is where you start, yeah. And then, and that was one of the things that one of my niche mates was offering that I noticed. Like, oh, I bet she has like a kajabi, you know, library of probably a handful of courses. And that's why she's charging six times what I'm thinking of her charging. Yeah, right? Features are different. But so, okay, I appreciate that. So that could be something I could build over time. So maybe I don't speak to that directly at front. That could be just something that I build as I work through this membership. I just think that the marketing will be much more effective. And I think the program will just be much more focused if it's whenever possible, like when, yeah. It's like, well, the benefit of saying this program can contain both newbies and maintenance is that it's easier for you in terms of I have one program. You just join, you know, wherever you are, just join. And my program Master Hearts kind of like that. I'm trying to do that because I have some newbies in Master Hearts. Some people who are advanced in their business and especially next year, I'm gonna carve out like, okay, we have one program, but it's almost like multiple programs within that one program. Like, okay, your newbie, try this first within the program. It's like a sub-program, you know? But I don't want to complicate it. Like you said, especially since you are getting the hang of running a group program, membership program, ongoingly, it's probably gonna be more effective in your marketing and in the running of it to be direct about the stage of the journey. Okay. The stage of understanding, the stage of their issues, but also understanding of framework, you know? And like a newbie program versus an ongoing maintenance program, because then I don't know, to me, I would be able to launch it with much more gusto to say, I am absolutely sure it's for the 10 of you I'm talking to right now. And you should join this because this is a maintenance plan and you just completed some work with me. Or I'm totally sure it's for those of you who are just starting out, like I can, you know, it's designed for you, literally, you know? So, but back to the question of, should you offer the discount for the first 10 people? I've done that kind of thing before and I don't recommend it because they're, first of all, the 11th person, what are you gonna say to that person? Sorry. You are the 11th person. Your email came in 20 minutes too late. Right? I don't like the whole 10 person, unless that stuff is public, unless it's like, you can literally see a counter and it's like, oh, zero now, you know, whatever, 10 now. I prefer to have dates as the way that I get a date, I get a deal if I sign up by October 1st. That's very clear. It's a public. It's like, sorry, you didn't sign up by October 1st. Like I said, and you can even give them the break. Hey, it's October 1st, but I'm still gonna give you the break. It's October 3rd, but I'm still gonna give you the discount. You know, keep it between us. I'm just giving you an extra break here. Okay. So I would prefer the date discount instead of the number, yeah. If I even need a discount at all? If you, yeah, you might not because depending on the pricing and as you look around at the market price, you might be like, I'm freaking good deal already. Right? And if you know that your thing is a really good deal, you should talk about that in your sales page. Don't ever mention anyone else, any other niche-mates name. Be say, programs in my industry can go in a range of $150 to $300 a month. This one is only $50 a month, $75 a month, $100 a month, whatever. Do you ever, one other quick question on that? How do you ever address changing pricing? Do you, I mean, or do you just say, this is the pricing today and the pricing tomorrow might be completely different? Exactly. Or I may raise the price. Yeah, no, exactly. Well, first of all, I don't think you need to. Prices change based on businesses. They, I mean, it's not like it changes all the time. It shouldn't change all the time, but it could definitely change once a year. It's not too often to change it maybe once every, twice a year is also not too often. Or every launch of the program is not too often usually, depending if unless they're launching every month. So you don't have to explain it, number one. But number two, you could say that I mean, I would say I prefer to see as a consumer a price, if the provider, if the business already knows that the price is going to be higher at a certain time, that's comms me to say, oh, okay, the price starting the new year is going to be this. And right now the price is 25% lower or 50% lower. So it's very clear. Everybody knows, it's very transparent. There's a date when the price is going to go up and it's going to be that. Whereas I don't like it when I see someone say, the price could be up in the future. Well, obviously, something called inflation, everybody. Of course the price is going to be higher in the future. I, when I see that, maybe it because I'm really sensitive to marketing tactics. Like you're just using the stupid marketing tactic. Oh, the price might go up in the future. Well, everybody's price is going to go up in the future. I hope, right? Well, not, I hope it's just, that's the inflation, right? Would you ever offer someone a price and say, I'll keep this price for you as long as you stay in the membership. Oh my God. Okay. Yeah, I'm so glad we're talking about this. I completely disagree with founder forever pricing. I mean, as a founding member, you get lifetimes at 25. Can you imagine if I did that with MasterHeart? Right now MasterHeart, for those of you watching this. It would really. You know, most, most of you watching this can know it's $150 a month at this time. By the time you watch this five years from now, it's going to be $250 a month. Like if founder pricing at $50 a month, I would be regret, I would be resenting the founders for life. You see what I mean? Like I'd be like, oh God, I promised these 12 people that they get $50 for life, but my features can, and then now I have to like somehow do some shenanigans. Like, well, the founders don't get this extra thing that the people paying $250 a month get. You know, so it's like, no, let's not do founder pricing because how can you predict what you're, how are you going to involve your business? It's not authentic business anymore. If you can't evolve it, authentic means you get to evolve your business every year or every whenever. And evolving means you're going to throw in new features, you're going to evolve how you deliver things. And by the way, in the future, a founder, founding price might even be higher than what you decide to do in the future. Now the founders are like, what? True. Yeah, it could be that, right? You just never know. Sure. Okay. All right. Don't ever, yeah, to me, I know some of you watching this, like, oh no, I already promised it. You could just, you know, if I did that, I would give apologies to the founders. I'm so sorry, I didn't foresee that I would, the economy was going to change in this way or I didn't foresee that I would want to offer one on one support to all the members, which means I have to charge $250 a month for this, for this tier. And the founder, as you know, as a founder you didn't, you know, I didn't promise one-to-one then. And yeah, so if you already did the founder pricing, you could explain that this other feature is takes more of your time and energy. And I think the founders will understand. So. Sure. Thanks, George. You're welcome, thank you. Eric, yes, go ahead. And this is, Tara, listening to you was kind of about this sort of newbie and whatever, experienced person. It seems, and I'm also reflecting on the material that we teach, you know, and even the material that George teaches, like I heard this, I was listening to part of the podcast where you reduced your whole model to three things, George. Okay, because all models can be reduced and understood in a simple way. So when do you graduate from being a newbie to being in, because my experience of people who've been in, I had a conversation with a student today who's been with our program for four years, deeply committed. And she said today, I just read this quote from you. And I think you said this like four years ago and I probably read it 25 times. I never really understood it. So was she a newbie or she advanced, you know? It's true. You have a good point. Yes. You know, so it's like, when I'm listening to you, I'm hearing like, maybe there's a newbie program that's actually more, there's not a lot of expectation of integration. It's like, here's the frame. Here's what we do. And you'd have to jump into the water, you know? That's true. You know? Yeah, that's it. But getting oriented, I could see that be valued with the language, the symbols, whatever the structures. What do you mean when you say diet? Is it the same as I mean, whatever? Yeah. That would be good to know early on, but like to expect that I could say in two months you're going to be, who knows where you'll be. No, I like that you're making a distinction that there's an orientation program versus those who have already been oriented on the framework and the definitions, the key concepts. And that's made me relax, because I think I want to make one of those, but it doesn't have to have a lot of, it's not like a test, you know, that you're done, you learn the model. Come on in. Right, no, no, but you'll continue learning the model. You'll continue deepening your understanding. And I think that's, I think that those are the best frameworks, right? The best frameworks aren't like, great, I learned my ABCs, there's no, I've learned the alphabet. What else do I, yeah, we can go deeper on each letter, the history of each letter, sure, sure. But at least I learned the alphabet, that's it. But it's like the best frameworks are like a spiral, spiraling upward or spiraling deeper, however you want to say it. It's like continually, like that's what I'm trying to build. Like the eight practices of authentic business. I am still, that's the founder of that framework. I'm still learning each practice forever, I think, yeah. I was imagining Tara, just this, because I was putting myself in your, like rebooting my program and doing like a short course on the basics, making sure that gets recorded. And that becomes the orientation program for anyone who's coming in. It doesn't have to be a lot of heavy lifting, for the presenter, I don't think. I'm so glad you saw that, Eric. I mean, because in the back of, I'm just thinking of a couple of clients. I have one that I worked with for two sessions and you should see what she shares with me and what she's put in her life. I've worked with another one for three months and we're still going back and forth through some basic things because whatever, just for whatever reason, you know? And it doesn't necessarily, just like your meditation student, gosh, I mean, how do we know how long it's gonna take someone to really bring all of this into their life? And yet, yeah, it's really tricky, but I do appreciate what George is saying. It's like, oh, it's more helpful when you can market to a certain orientation of where that person thinks they are. Totally. Right on. That's right. Where they think they are. Yes. That's what I'm hearing and kind of the magic of this. So if I'm marketing to them, if that's a different person than someone's like, yeah, Tara, I've been working with you for six months. Like, why do you think this is a program for me? But unless I can really speak to that. You did read Katie's Raver's description of her thing. I think that was interesting. She gave people a two-day experience of the framework that was also giving them an experience of the culture and of the relationships and the way they do the stuff, right? So that was like a way of really pre-selling the deeper process. Really good. Yeah, that is really good. Can I throw a two-cent example? Gregory, yes, please. Go ahead. That seems relevant to the, Yes. When I was in one of the programs, that I did a 10 month program that I participated in, one of the fun examples of the opportunity to continue to deepen in the basics again and again and again is there was the facilitator of this program in addition to being a corporate coach with a background in spiritual psychology and a longtime friend of mine. He's also an amazing drummer, like professional level drummer. He just had a shift of gears at a certain point. But he, with his affection for drumming brought in this really fun video of a guy teaching paradiddles and for anybody who's done some drumming, paradiddles are basic drills for certain fundamental things. This guy is marketed, I forget where he is. He's like in Nebraska or somewhere in the Midwest and he's marketed specifically as coach to master drummers. That's how his whole marketing is by referral. And so most of his clients, in addition to high level up and coming drummers, most of his clients are professional musicians who are on tour. And when they get to Nebraska while they're doing their world tour or naturally, they stop in with him to refine their skills. And the first thing he has them do are paradiddles. And nine out of 10 times they go, do you know who I am? Well, it's kind of like learning from a master pianist and say, let's make sure your scales are really on par. Exactly, exactly. And he goes through the whole thing of, yeah, I know. Yeah, yes, you play for this mammoth band, but we're not going anywhere until you can demonstrate that you can play this in time, behind the time, ahead of the time, that you can hold with mastery these simple things. Cause if you can't do that, there's no point in doing sloppy work going beyond that. Anyhow, I thought that was a cool to always go back to basics. Yeah, yeah. This is the making of a blog post right here. Yeah. There's our content to keep. Thank you. Actually, that is true for each one of us here. Like we can literally create content about what the basics are in our expertise. And to say, if you haven't yet, or if you haven't yet mastered it, you should revisit it. And also, even if you think you've mastered it, it's still good to revisit this. So yeah, so thanks everyone.