 All right, so welcome back to Big Talk from Small Libraries. I am Christy Porter, your host here at the Nebraska Library Commission. And it is 10 a.m. Central Time now. Our next topic, our next presenter is Barbara Friedman. Good morning, Barbara. Good morning. And she is the library director at Irving Public Library in Irving, Massachusetts. Populations serve 1,776. That last count is correct. Correct, 777. And she is going to talk this morning about teaching iPad and iPhone to seniors. I know this is something that my own mother has gotten. She's all about her eye, everything. So I'm just going to hand over to you, Barbara, to take away and tell us about what you've been doing there. Great. Well, welcome. And I am thrilled to have so many attendees. I'm the library director at the Irving Public Library. And as Christy said, 1776 is a population. We're building a new library. We're excited about so many things changing in small libraries. We're going from a very small library of 1,800 square feet to 8,000 square feet. But our mission really is to teach people and share things in the community. And so I've done these classes about teaching iPhone and iPad to seniors at the Senior Center. And I've been very fortunate to be able to teach them at a university that's nearby. We are in a rural area. There are very few Apple stores. And so this is an opportunity for seniors to really get to know the technology. And many seniors are getting their technology from sons, daughters, relatives. And they want to know how to use these things. But I have had people come to the class with a flip phone or no phone at all. So during this hour, on my slides, it says an outline of five 90-minute classes. I'm going to give you 20 apps every senior should know and some really practical advice. So why do I teach seniors? I've been doing tech for 50 years. My first computer class was in 1969. I like logic. I like my iPhone. I love my iPhone. I made my kids buy me an iPad. And as I said, there are no Apple stores nearby. So I feel that there's a need that I as a senior can share with people. But even if you're not a senior, I think you can do this. I will break for questions. And I've used this slide presentation in other settings. So that's why I have this slide. But I know Krista will allow you to ask questions. So please feel free at any time to jump in with your questions. And this is a fun topic for me. And I hope it's a fun topic for you. Absolutely. Yes. So why do seniors need a smart device? They need to keep in touch with family. They need to know how to text. They need to share photos. They need to use the phone. They need to do FaceTime, especially if they have grandchildren at home. And they need to know how to email. And the simple things that many of you have done for years and years are real challenges for seniors. Things like attaching something to an email and sending it, attaching a photo to an email is a skill that seems so easy to most of us, but is not for some seniors. Seniors that use this technology now are, I have to do something to my slide here. Just there we go. Now I see myself here and I got to get rid of that. Seniors that use this technology in their 60s and 70s will be able to use it when mobility fails them in their 80s and 90s. I wake up every morning saying, Alexa, tell me what time it is. I go to sleep every night saying, Alexa, would you set the alarm for 6 o'clock in the morning or 7 or on weekends 10? It's something that as we lose mobility, we will love this technology more and more. And so every senior should be able to use an iPhone or iPad or some other device. When seniors are learning something, they have an issue with not getting the first part of the instructions. So just picture yourself going someplace and not knowing how you got to the place. Just somebody telling you, okay, we'll just continue on Jefferson Boulevard to your destination. But you have no idea where Jefferson Boulevard is. So that's how a senior feels when they don't know how to use the technology, but somebody just says to them, well, that's easy. Just press this, this and this. And usually it is someone that is younger. So why do I limit it to iPad, iPhone? I started teaching this as a class where just bring your device. And I ended up having everybody have a different device. And so there was very little learning going on because there was no overlap between the devices. So you might decide that you want to teach Android or some other way of limiting what you can teach in a short time. Because I have an iPhone, I prefer that and I have a good time with it, but definitely don't limit yourself. I often have people that come with an Android to class and at the senior center, I will let anybody bring anything. And I also do Tech Tuesdays where they can come to the library and just come and ask me a question. So I set aside two hours a week now. Some Tuesdays, nobody comes. And I know next week one lady's going to come and ask which computer she should buy. So I encourage you definitely to offer some kind of Tech in your library. So why would you want to teach? There definitely is a patron need. I think I've expressed that already to a few times. It's time consuming to answer these questions at the reference desk. So you've got somebody waiting and somebody's asking a really detailed question. This way you can say, oh, come on Tuesdays or come to my class. I'm doing a few sessions on this, that or the other thing. And it promotes the library as Tech Smart, a vital community service and brings in non-traditional users. And basically it makes you look good. In order to teach, of course you're going to have to have an Apple device or if you decide another device. You need a projector, a screen, a computer or what I found in some of the senior centers. If they have a smart television and an Apple TV, that works really well. I have an Apple TV so I can plug it into a smart television if they don't have an Apple TV. And that allows the students to actually see the screen which works really well because as you are changing your screen, they're changing their screen and they can see how to do it. And an open, reliable Wi-Fi connection. That seems obvious, but at the university that I taught, the first class I taught, they didn't open the entire internet to me. And so my students could not download anything and I had to continually tell them, you're going to go home and download. This was about five years ago when I started to teach this. I've learned my lesson the hard way. What else do you need? You need, of course, some experience using whatever technology you're teaching. So iPads, iPhones. You need a lot of flexibility because every class is going to be different and that's what makes really fun for you and for the students. And you need some patience because seniors learn different, especially if you're older, you might have no problem being slow and methodical. If you're a little younger, you might have to slow it down a little bit. So I do know some things about using the iPhone and iPads. I've used them probably for about 10 years now, but I don't know everything and everything changes. I teach it anyway. I always learn something. So don't let your feeling of, oh, I don't know everything about this so I can't teach it. I'm sure you can teach some things. So all of you do technology. The biggest insult I get is if I can't answer the question, somebody will always say this. No worries. If you don't know how to answer it, I'll ask my 13-year-old grandson if you are a senior yourself and especially if you are female, your class may have little confidence that you know anything about phones, tablets, or computing. And yet, many of us in libraries have been doing this for the last 50 years. So you got to build a little confidence and I'll tell you what I do. So first of all, remember why they're saying this. They're proud of their grandkids. They watch them play endless games and they figure they must have learned something, right? So I'm working at these responses. I'm smiling. I'm biting my tongue. I tell them they have great grandkids and I ask them to bring the solution to the next class. And then I do my homework and I bring the solution to the next class. So and usually they don't bring the solution to the next class because what they want to learn is really not what their grandkids know. So and do well than with a few tricks. The best trick is to save what's on your screen by clicking the two buttons. And can I show people there? Let's see. Can I get back to... Can you see me? Yeah, if... You can in the go-to webinar where it says we went to show screen, you can stop showing. You can... Well, actually you can just close your slides or minimize your slides and go to your screen if you want to. Okay. Well, I'm not... Show screen? Stop showing screen. Stop showing... No, you don't want to do that. You want to still see your slide. But I'm just saying your PowerPoint itself, if you wanted to, you can stop using your PowerPoint and show your screen. There you go. Yeah. Okay. Do whatever you want to show. You know, taking a screenshot of what you were talking about. Okay. I'm not actually seeing this, but I guess you guys can see this, right? Yes. You know, it's... You probably all know this, but just doing that and clicking your screen and saving it in your pictures is a miracle to some seniors. And those kinds of easy tricks to get them, oh, wow, you know, I've learned something in the first five minutes of the class. And I think that really gets people's attention. And I've got a few other ideas. So I'm going to go back to... Yeah, go back to the slide show then to get your slides full screen there. Okay. Are we good? Good. All right, perfect. Okay. And let me just go one slide up. Sorry for that. I'm going to do that. Well, let me just go back a minute. Okay. Let's go through this though. So what I spend a lot of time doing is going through the first classes and talking about touch, speaking, swiping, clicking and double clicking. And these are things that if you've used technology for a long time, you don't even think about it. Seniors that are new to technology think of touching the screen as if they were touching a manual typewriter. And there are three or four different touches that we use when we use this type of screen technology. So they tend first of all to press too hard, press too long. And as you know, that will have a different result. So going through this, taking the time to go through the touch and how you speak, how do you get Siri to come up? Swiping, swipe left, swipe left, click, double click, click. You know, all of those things are brand new. So you might even spend the first class or at least half of that class just going through some of these things to make sure everybody's on the same page. But don't underestimate seniors. They may not know this technology, but they've got a lot of life experiences that they're bringing into the class. And that's what's going to make your class interesting. So we keep moving forward, opening up new doors and doing new things because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down these new paths. So don't, no matter where your class starts, it's going to end up in a really interesting place. I have a little video. I don't know if... Do you think I can show this? Let's see. No. You should be able to... Is that there a link that you can click on in your slides? I should be able to. Yeah, I think it's going to go. Let's see if it'll do. I usually show this to the class just for fun. And it's one that if you're going to do this, it just breaks up a little nervousness. Let's just see if it will. It says it's processing, and it might have an ad or something. But it's one you might have a little fun with. Oh yeah, here we go. Let's see if we can start this. Yeah. Good. So the look is priceless, isn't it? Yes. And so, but really don't... By this time, really few, few seniors will do anything quite like that, but it does break up the class. It's a good one just to show people. It's called grandpa. How do you like your birthday iPad? Oh, and okay. Don't... Here's my mistakes. Limit the size of the class. Hang on, hang on. We're getting a little interference here. You see to close those tabs there so it doesn't... Yeah, there we go. And we're going to come back to you right away. Sorry for that interruption. So don't fight off more than you can shoot. Limit your size. Customize it to your audience and minimize. You're going to be too ambitious. Every class I teach, I am too ambitious. And then I keep on breaking it down to whoever I have in the class. So don't feel badly if you don't get to everything. So I limit the size to 12 or less. And it's even better if there's eight. Seniors like to talk and to share. And that is the fun of the class. So as soon as you develop your syllabus, just throw it out the window after you meet your first class. We learn from others. Internet speed is important. As I said, I did have some issues with internet speed. If you're going to a new place, a new senior center, you might have some issues there. Make it fun. Less is more. Adults want to learn what's useful to them. So start with a simple outline. Modify it often. Ask the class what they want to learn. And find that pace that's really right for your class. And remember, you don't have to teach everything because it's not about you. It's about them. Here's the things that people want to know. They want to be able to check their bank account, but they're afraid to check their bank account. And you have to talk about security. They want to do online shopping. But some of them don't quite get how that works. And they're afraid to put their credit cards in there. Stores, of course. I always have a few stores on mine. And I show them how to use it. Showing them how they can, if they are still want to have physical pictures. A lot of us have given up all those photo albums. But if they still want to do that, I just show them how to use the Kodak site or the CVS site or one of the others so that they can take the photo from their stream. And they can just walk to the whatever store they choose. And they can pick them up right away because they've already done that through their phones. And they can use their phone lines. Biggest thing, book it. Have your pass ready. They'll feel confident going through that line at the airport with their phone out instead of having to produce a paper copy of their ticket. Dunkin' Donuts, lots of free stuff. McDonald's. Health app. I just loaded on the new health app from my clinic, which keeps on changing. But I noticed that they've pooled all of the information together so I can check my cholesterol from 2011 all the way up to today. So that's a really important thing for seniors. Walking. You know that it'll tell you how many steps. Games. I place gravel every day. Usually there are one or two people in the group that will volunteer which game they're playing and then others can join in and see how that works. That's a fun thing to do. Transportation. So wonderful to... I'm in Massachusetts and I can take the train from my area. I can see the schedule. I can book the ticket. I don't even have to show the phone to the conductor. As soon as I get on the train it automatically clicks on. These kinds of things will be very helpful to seniors. And how to connect to devices. How do they connect their light switches? Alexa. Things like that. That's a great thing to show them. I don't know that one. Oh my Alexa. Did you just hear her? She just... That's actually funny. I have to say someone did comment earlier when you were talking about having your Alexa set your alarm. That their Alexa just set their alarm for 10 a.m. Yes. Well, you know, I think that seniors that don't have this technology are feeling really out of it and lost. And so I know our senior center has an echo and so they're getting comfortable with it. But, you know, there's still those people that for some reason got through life without too much technology in their jobs and they still have that fear. It's a great, great to get... A library is a perfect place to share this, you know? Okay. And so for students... I made a mistake in my last class. I got too confident in teaching this class over and over and I really do want the students to have their hands on their device. So of course they have to have an iPad or an iPhone from my class. They have to know the Apple ID and password. And when some people get the technology from a relative, they often don't get the Apple ID and password and they have a hard time changing it over. So some of them end up going to an Apple store calling tech and doing that because that's something I can't do. So if you are getting a class together, it's a good idea to put that in your description. You know, we're teaching a class at the library. Bring your iPhone, iPad, but make sure you also bring your Apple ID and password because otherwise they won't be able to download anything. The library card, because that's the reason I originally taught this, I found that there's so many people that actually didn't use the things that they could use from the library. They couldn't download an audiobook and ebook. They couldn't stream a video because they had no concept of how to do that. Even though we gave out handouts, you know, they just couldn't get there. So having them bring a library card and going through that and showing them your digital services is really great for libraries, great for them. And I see my side, the last thing on that slide has some strange word over there. But the point is, our handouts really necessary. The last class I taught, I did not hand out anything at all. It was totally hands on. And then when I got the feedback, I got people that really wanted some handouts. So decide what you want to do. Okay, so again, this is just about handouts. People can refer back to their notes. Handouts can keep the class on track. The cons are seniors who take notes, they never put their hands on their device. And I had one lady who came in without a device. This was her first class. It was a senior center. She really wanted to know about whether she should buy an iPhone or not. And she sat there and she took note and note and note and note. The next class, class two, she came in with a brand new iPhone. She knew how to turn it on. She was the most enthusiastic student I've ever had. And by the end of the fifth class, she really, really was enjoying it. So if people don't have an iPhone, but they want to learn about it, you might encourage them to sit through the class. It can be helpful. And of course, you probably know there's an app for that. You can show them that they can take notes on their phone if they want to. So here's another reason why you might want to do handouts. These are really familiar symbols to us. You know where to click, what's going to happen when you click there. But you know what this looks like to a senior? That's what it looks like. It's strange. What are those symbols? What do those symbols mean? So there are at least 50 symbols to learn. And there's no way you would ever get through doing, going through all of these symbols in your class. But just to, you know, pick a few that you're going to concentrate on. And if you give out a handout, this is probably the kind of handouts you want to give so they can keep on referring back to. What does that symbol do? If I press it, what's going to happen? Here's some of my smiling faces. And notice this one class where one lady is helping another lady. That has really been truly wonderful to see the interaction between people that have learned a little bit and they want to show the other person how to do it. These people are working very hard on this. And the other lady was from a different senior class. And she again was starting really from scratch and leaving with quite a bit of comfort. Do we have any questions? Should we? I've been rambling on for quite a while. Let's see. Oh, okay. Yes, we do. The image of the list of icons. Do you have a source of where you got that from or is that a grown handout where it like? I stole it from someplace. And so if you put just iPhone icons in the internet, you'll get something similar and you can choose which one you want to use. There's lots of them out there, yeah. And someone did ask about, she said, thank you, that helps. Great. Yeah, basically, yeah, look for one. And there's going to be lots of different ones out there, depending on what you're trying to teach, you might want something that looks a little different, potentially. Yeah. Yeah, and you might, that was a list of 50. If you really feel that you can find a list that's maybe 10 to start with, it's probably a good way to go. It's really, it can be overwhelming. And just look at the, you know, what I have on the screen. The gentleman in the back, and I don't, I don't remember the gentleman's name and I don't want to point him out, but I want you to tell, want to tell the story of what made a difference in his life. So he's working very hard. He's doing very well. He understands a lot of the concepts and why he wants to do this. But he is having very great difficulty seeing what's on the screen. And so I looked at his screen, because I do go around the class and look at the screen, and I realized that he didn't know how to adjust the brightness on his screen. So all I did was flip up and brighten his screen. It was like a miracle. It was, wow! So definitely this, because this is a hands-on class, you really want to see what they're seeing on the screen. And that one little gentleman taught me that every individual needs individual attention. So think of them all as very different. Okay, this is my class outline. So if you are thinking of doing the class, I'm going to run through these fairly quickly. Just what I do, introduce myself to the students and let them introduce themselves to each other. And that seems to be the key in these senior classes. They work off of each other. You're just kind of a facilitator. So don't think of yourself so much as a teacher, but more of a facilitator. And ask them why they're taking the class, because then those things that they want to know will pop up to the beginning of the class, and they'll feel more satisfied with getting something out of the class. And what I usually do, the very first thing is I take a photo of the class, and then I instantly project it on the screen, which shows the technology of how iPhones work and how iCloud works. So log into your iCloud so that they can see that not only is the image on their phone, but it's also on any computer in the entire world that they happen to log into with their iCloud account. And that can be a miracle. Also be scary, because their information is worldwide. So starting from the beginning, I had one gentleman who came in and he had that iPad in a box, and we took it out and took the shrink wrap off. So you have to, you know, some it might be showing them where the start button is, where the home button is, and then you might have somebody who's been using an iPhone for years and just really wants a little more comfort level. So it's hard to juggle the different levels. Phone is the absolute number one reason why people want to take a class on iPhones. But sometimes they don't know what these things do. So show them the selfie button. That's always fun. Everybody hates it because everybody looks so ugly. But they need to know how to put the flash on, how to make it a video. And the simple things that I remember finding difficult for me, other people find difficult too. I mean, it took me forever to realize that the video happened when you slid against the bottom half of the screen instead of poking it. So I've learned the hard way. So as I say, photos are the most popular. So take some time to do that. Take some time to take photos, delete photos, take videos, delete videos. Have the class take a selfie and delete the selfie. And sometimes if it is a good selfie, they might want to send it to their son, daughter, or something like that. And that's always fun to watch how cool that is for them to get a text back saying, oh, wow, you took a selfie. Wow. So photos are these two icons. Start with those because that will be the way to go and get people interested. I hand out a survey at the beginning. You can use this survey, make up your own, but it is a good way to start. Because although they might come in wanting to know how to FaceTime their grandchild, there's so many different things that they might want to know. And this way you can concentrate on those things instead of just the things you might think are important. You'll concentrate on the 10 most important things that everybody wants to know. And that makes the class a little more concise. I can spend the entire first class on this. And that is just flipping up from the bottom of the phone. This is a great way of showing them airplane mode, their cell phone connectivity, their Wi-Fi connection, Bluetooth connection, how you get that screen to stay in one place instead of flipping back and forth the lock screen, the night and day feature. Some of these icons are not on the standard screen. There are things that I have put on in notifications. So you can also show how to add things and subtract things if you want to. Just knowing that their phone is also an alarm clock, it's also a flashlight, it's an emergency phone, they can write with it, they can make a little audio recording of themselves, they can connect to their car. All of those things can be discussed from this very first screen where you just flip up from the bottom. And this is a list of all of those things that I just talked about. So that's class number one. And connecting to the internet. So I just had a lady in the library talking about she wants a computer for herself, she doesn't have internet at home. I said she wants a laptop. So we were discussing what she's going to buy. And then I said, but you can bring the laptop anytime and just connect it to the internet in the library. It's mobile. And she said, but I don't know how to connect to the internet. And so the simple, the method of going to settings, showing them exactly how they can connect to the internet, whether they're in Applebee's or where ever they're going or to their family's home. And that can save them the cell phone service. And that's definitely something you have to deal with in the first session. So again, a screen just showing that I often give them homework to take and delete the photo, which I told you about before. It's very helpful for you to set up the icons that you want to deal with on your first screen and ask them to show them how to move icons and then set up the screen on the first day so that you all have the same screen to start with. So you're only going to deal with these icons during the class and not the other 52 that you happen to have on your device. And I see we're getting close to the end of the time. So I can go through this quickly or I can take questions. Well, I do have a couple of questions. We'll get those done right now while we're ahead. If anybody does have anything they want to ask Barbara, please do type it into your go-to webinar question section. One person just has a comment and it's related to what you're talking about. I think that picture will be helping people. When I worked at the reference desk, I had a fellow that was probably in his early 90s and he would ask me computer questions. He was a really sharp individual, but every time I'd show him something, he'd say, you win the Golden Halo Award for the day because you're so appreciative of what I would show him. I think that's what they like you're saying throughout this whole neuro presentation. They really want to know this stuff. They want to learn. It's new to them just like it was new to us at some point. Those of us that use it regularly, but yeah. Yeah. And because it can be so useful because I have friends that are having knee surgery, I have friends, and having devices that will help you. I mean, it's the extended clapper. You all remember the clapper commercials and this does so much more. Someone does have a question about their biggest challenge. My biggest challenge is non-techie patrons of any age who, number one, think they can't learn it and, number two, are afraid of technology and worry that they are going to break the computer or tablet or phone. Yes. And, you know, this is not a new problem. I remember 20 years ago that some of the people that happened to have a job where they had to be trained in the computer still have that fear because computers used to be a lot ifier about its stability in the 80s, you know. And that's when that fear came and they never touched anything since. The one-on-one is the way to do that. And if you have the time and the inclination to sit down with seniors one-on-one, they can get over a lot of those fears. And that's the only way I've managed to do that. And then people in the class that do have that. I did have a lady last class that she didn't actually want to do anything hands-on. She wanted to just kind of audit the class. And that was okay. But I noticed by the fifth class she was using her device. So everybody learns a little differently. And, yeah, it just takes time. It just takes time. Keep on reassuring them. You can do this. Okay. So I think we have four more minutes. And I'm going to go ahead. I'll go through this. So repetition, repetition, repetition. And showing what apps do. So this is something that if you, because I allow people to have an iPhone or an iPad at some point, you're going to have to show them the difference. So, of course, you can't do a telephone. You can't make a phone call from an iPad exactly the same way. But you can do a message and you can do FaceTime. So that's the big difference. And, of course, there are others. But you might want to take some time doing that. And again, put the apps on your front screen there with the apps that you're going to be doing and encourage them to move all of those apps onto their first screen. That can take half of a class just getting them to know how to move their icons back and forth. So sometimes that's a good thing to start towards the end of class and then ask them to work on it at home. And then the next 20 apps that you decide to show them, you're going to do that totally according to who you have in the class. It'll be very, very different for every class you teach. Google Maps is one of my favorites. Skype, Pandora, Google Maps, Kindle, Your Libraries Catalog, Libby, YouTube, Hoopla, and FreeGo. I would not skip any of those except for Hoopla and FreeGo if your library doesn't subscribe to those. But in Massachusetts, Libby is a regionally contracted service so that is Overlook. And so every library has that. Individual libraries subscribe to Hoopla, especially for streaming videos. And FreeGo is the music. So even our little library, we subscribe to both of those. And email, big calendar, huge thing to learn, so complicated but so useful. Reminders for seniors, wonderful. It's going to ring and remind them that they have an appointment. And so class three, going through calendar, finding directions, how to use YouTube, how to find their iPhone if they lose it, how to read a book and watch a movie. All wonderful things. If you can squeeze that into class three, you're doing really, really well. Class four would be online catalogs, finding things in the catalog, doing games and streaming videos and how to use their library account. And that is the reason I started to do this. I wanted everybody to know how to use their library account and use the online catalog. And again, if you get to class five and still have time, then go through these services that your library happens to subscribe to. So they may be different than what we subscribe to, but Hoopla and FreeGo. And then if you still have time teaching them that now they have control of their television sets, if they have a Fire Stick, Apple TV, or an HDMI connection, and they also have control of their Echo, Echo Dot, or Google device, whatever they happen to, any smart speaker they have. And those are the miracles of today. And there's always more to learn. So tell them that they should go to the library and pick up a book. And YouTube, of course, is great. And I think I've gotten to... I'm not going to show you those, but I am going to tell you that just to wrap this up, one of the things that I've been able to do is to teach at places that are not in the town that I am the library director. And you get paid for doing this, which if you are a part-time librarian or have extra time in your life, you might offer this service to either senior university programs or senior center programs. Everybody's looking for this kind of skill, and most librarians do have this skill. So some extra pocket money in case you're looking for that. So seniors are eager students. Please enjoy teaching them how to do this. Thank you. All right, great. Thank you, Barbara. We do have a few questions that came in and I think I'm just going to take a minute or two to grab a couple of them here. A question about internet safety. Do you work internet safety into any of your classes, for example, elderly people being scammed into sharing their credit card information or giving up power of attorney or something like that? It always comes up. And so it's always the top of discussion at some point. Google, if you have gone to any of the conferences and seen the Google booth, I know last year at ALA they were giving out a safety booklet that you could use as a, you know, in a class. So you could write to Google and ask them for that if you intend to teach such a class. It's already done for you. Great. And then what about privacy concerns? When you're helping someone set up a new device, is there any privacy concerns when you have their password or do you just make them enter all of that and not give you the information? Yeah, I never put it in for them. They have to do it themselves and they have to know it themselves, yeah. Oftentimes it will take three classes until some people actually find that password, know what the Apple ID, know what their password and actually can get in. So they, you know, there's great incentive because they see the other people in the class doing things and they can't download anything. So by the third class, if they're going to continue, you better believe they've asked somebody how to do that. Yes, they found it, yeah, yeah. And then I don't know if you mentioned a couple of questions. Are your classes free or do you charge for them? They charge, the ones that I teach at the university, that's totally billed by the university. They send me a check at the end of the five weeks and that's great. At senior centers, for the, my local senior center, I've done this free and in the library, of course I've done that free because all of our programs are free. At another senior center, they decided that it was a very small group and they decided to charge the individuals who were taking the class $10 a class. So I think I had six people, the first class and four and then, you know, six, you know, so whatever it was, I got $10 from whoever showed up to the class. So, you know, but for your own library, I can't imagine charging. Right, you definitely not, yeah. Okay, I think we're going to have to wrap up for now. If anybody doesn't have any other questions, you'll be able to reach out to Barbara later with our information. So thank you very much, Barbara. This is great. Well, I hope everybody does this. Thank you. Bye bye. Thank you.