 So welcome, welcome wherever you are, whatever time of day it is. It's a great pleasure to have you attend this session. Hopefully you can see my sharing of screen is working there and you can see this is this session is about the electricity system. So as we try to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, we know that the energy system and the way we use it and produce and use energy is historically and continues to be a massive source of greenhouse gases because of our use of fossil fuels. And there's a lot of talk which we'll go into about the fact that we're able to produce electricity in a low carbon way that means we're trying to use more electricity. So then there's a focus on the electricity system. What is it about an electricity system that that is maybe needs to be thought about quite carefully in this decarbonized world. And that's what we're going to try and introduce and then get a bit into depending on how the discussion goes in this session, planning and operating an electricity system without fossil fuels or or if you are going to use fossil fuels, you have to capture any of the co2 that is emitted when when burning those fields and you have to capture them well. And the technology that exists at the moment are not perfect for doing that. Okay, I'm going to stop sharing for a moment. Just so we can see all of the panelists who are joining us in this session. So my name is Keith Bell, I'm from the University of Strathclyde in Glasgow in Scotland in the UK. I used to continue that by saying in Europe but unfortunately it's not we're not you know kind of politically part of Europe anymore. But that's a discussion for another time. And I'm a power system engineer by background and I've been working in this area for sort of 25 years. And we can see our other panelists and I'll just look around my kind of my screen. So a bit of book alts. One car started on that. Ronald Murray and the Pali run eager and they will speak be thinking later and I'll introduce what their organizations are in a few moments. So I'm just going to introduce the topic a little bit more now. Just give a bit of background before we go into presentation by the Pali. Choose the right screen, I can do that. And yeah, here we go. So I already mentioned that we're in this context of trying to decarbonize our use of energy. What drives that is the demand for energy and globally we can see that that has been going up pretty dramatically in the last 20 years been going up for a long time but it's a pretty significant rise since then. And that chart from the International Energy Agency shows where we're getting our energy from how is it produced. And you can see at the bottom there, those first two bands coal and oil, and the next one natural gas these are all fossil fuels that hugely dominate that pattern of where energy comes from. Now the expectations of the International Energy Agency is actually demand for energy will decrease in total. And we have to see the use of fossil fuels reducing. So we can reduce the total demand for energy because of the efficiency that we can gain just by kind of newer technologies and also by a shift to electricity which does tend to be more efficient in its use of energy. And of course, what we're trying to do in the course of all of that is you can see in the bottom right hand charts, dramatic reduction in CO2 emissions. And while the population of the world is growing, we nevertheless will see, you know, a huge fall in the per capita CO2 emissions. So what part does energy, sorry, electricity play in this future energy mix. There's been a whole range of scenarios and studies and pathways sort of outlined over the last few years all looking forward to the coming decades. And you can see some summaries of them from report from the European Commission Joint Research Centre looked at a whole range of scenarios and how they seem to relate to the share of electricity in serving that final total energy demand. And then also on the right hand side, how much of the electricity is coming from renewables. And the basic message is very clear, I think that both electricity as the source of energy is increasing and renewables as the source of electricity are increasing. Now, why can we be confident across all of those different scenarios that this is the right way to go. One of the big reasons is the fantastic fall in what we call the levelized cost of energy from electricity production. We measure energy in terms of watt hours or megawatt hours in electricity system I'll come on to that in a few moments. And these are just figures in the UK, but for each megawatt hour of energy produced by, let's say offshore wind farm or a solar PV array. Those costs have come down massively and you can see those sort of three for offshore wind onshore wind and large solar on the right hand side, throwing on the left hand side of that left hand chart. You know fossil fuels well we're subject to the vagaries of the wholesale markets in terms of their production we've seen, you know, global prices going up a lot in in recent times, and costs of nuclear production while you know, two or three decades ago, there were forecasts this evening that they would come down they haven't really come down or if they have not not significantly in the same way that costs of renewables have come down. And because of that, the net zero emission scenario that the International Agent Energy Agency published in May shows a massive increase in the use of wind and solar PV and producing many thousands of terawatt hours of energy, while these fossil fuel sources as we've said already decrease. That requires investment. So that's one of the challenges is, you know, are we going to get the are we going to get the investment are there's plenty of money there are investors willing to put it in I mean things like pension funds for example, can be really looking, looking at a long longer term horizon of decades rather than just a few years. And it involves not just the production of electricity but also the network to be able to get that electricity that's produced to the end users, and then changing the end users to be able to, you know, utilize that electricity that is available. And the changes to demand we can see here this is again another if more recent report from the International Energy Agency published just last month. Okay, for this case, just in the G seven countries. Where is that energy being used. Well, yep. The electricity demand in buildings in many countries it's already high where I live in the UK. When we're not using electricity for heating but we're expecting that we will have to. And actually for use a heat pump that gives us some efficiency benefits. Increased use of electricity in industry and especially there in transport, and another interesting one there the grave, the darker gray band, and we come through to sort of towards the 2030s. And that can be really important because hydrogen has all sorts of different uses could be used in industry or in manufacturing low carbon fuels for heavy goods vehicles shipping aviation. It could also be helped to sort of shift the time of use of energy. And we have a high demand for energy in the winter because of heating, but the renewables could be operating all year round or fluctuating in between. Can we use the surplus of wind and solar power to manufacture hydrogen which we then store and use when we need it for for heating or for transport or so and so on. Now another really important part of this I think is for us to remember I live in a kind of high income country that not everybody around the world has the same level of access to electricity that I'm fortunate to have. So, there's all sorts of kind of sustainable development goals that will be unlocked by access to electricity communication, cooling, lighting, and so on. And one of those kind of key kind of uses of electricity and clean cooking with the sort of health benefits that come along with that, and we can see a need to improve access to that around the world as well. Okay, my last slide before I hand over to Dipali. Just as a framing our discussion. Power is the word that we often use to describe the power sector but actually, it has a precise meaning in terms of the rate of use of energy or of its production. How much energy are we producing per second or per minute. And then the energy is like the kind of thought we think about actors across a period of time across a year or across a week. Power measured for us as electrical engineers all of us have some sort of involvement with the sector in this in this session. Power is in, you know, in a domestic scale in kilowatts, you know, an electric kettle might might use one or two kilowatts that's the rate of use of energy to heat up water. But in a power station or a wind farm we're talking at a scale of megawatts for a country we're talking at a scale of gigawatts. You know, for your own electricity bill that might be measured in kilowatt hours, but for a country across the whole year, that would typically be measured in terawatt hours. And we can see some typical figures for some some of the countries that you might be familiar with down down in the corner some of our panelists, for example. And how reliable is that supply of electricity that varies a lot depending on where you are, where I am in the UK, on average, I might be without an electricity supply for maybe 30 minutes a year, but you know it's higher in a rural area and lower in an urban area. But to design the network and design the generation the production capacity, how big could it get to any moment in time, then we're back to this measure of power. The instantaneous production, the rate of production, or the rate of use. And that's measured in gigawatts and you've got to size your system for that. And then it's able to kind of having got it to that size it can accommodate the various transition various flows of power of energy through the system and energy across a year. So we have these various challenges I mentioned the investment challenge already and the fact the renewables represent a cost effective way of meeting demand for electricity. And that the emissions intensity how many grams of CO2 per kilowatt hour or per megawatt hour of electricity produced that that emissions intensity is massively reduced when you can get electricity from renewables. There are other low carbon sources as well such as nuclear power or which is obviously quite controversial or also controversially burning fossil fuels provided you then capture the CO2 emissions. You know, growing the demand for electricity looks like a good way of decarbonizing transport electric vehicles instead of combustion engine vehicles or heat pumps instead of gas boilers. How can we encourage electrification of demand. And if we've got all this bigger electricity system and the use of renewables I mean you know wind and solar that's not windy all the time it's not sunny all the time. So challenges does that present that variability. How does a system operator make sure that they can still always meet the demand for electricity every minute of every day throughout the year. And from our panel today will hear some different experiences from different parts of the world. We have Dupali Raniga who is public affairs and policy manager for the electricity system operator in national in the UK which is national grid ESO. We will then come on to and hear some remarks from Juan Carlos Araneda who is the deputy planning manager for the coordinator electrical national in Chile. Then we'll come to Ronald Murray who is the strategic grid planning manager from Escom in South Africa. And last but certainly not least, Prita Buckholz, who is VP active distribution grids with the touchy energy she's based in Germany, but touchy energy is a global company. So all of our panelists have experienced from from the industry and know how it, you know what the challenges are, if you like at the sharp end, but all, you know, passionately committed to this very necessary decarbonization project. Okay, so with that now I'm driving Dupali slides forward. So just move on there. So over to you Dupali. Thank you very much Keith and it's a pleasure to be speaking to you all today. And so as Keith mentioned I'll be talking about planning and planning and operating an electricity system without fossil fuels by sharing the experience from Great Britain so if we can move to the next slide. And I'll touch briefly on who we are as the electricity system operator. So we're going to talk a little bit about our experience to date, and also how we are looking to the future and how we are preparing for the future energy system. And so if we can move to the next slide. Lovely and the next one. Wonderful. Thank you. So who are we. And so you might have heard of national grid and the electricity system operator is a legally separate part of national grid. And so we have an electricity system across Great Britain, so across England, Wales and Scotland. And we make sure that the electricity system is is ready and keeping the lights on for homes and businesses 24 seven. We have set ourselves a number of targets for 2025. And you might have heard recently that the British Prime Minister, the UK Prime Minister announced the ambition that by 2035. We are able to operate a carbon free electricity grid. And we've already set ourselves a target that by 2025 will have the capability to run a carbon free electricity system some of the time, and being able to reach that capability by 2035 or running a fully carbon free system. So moving to the next slide. Thank you very much. So we've seen some really dramatic changes in Great Britain and it's perhaps worth taking a step back to understand the bigger context of how these changes in the electricity system have emerged. In 2008, in the UK we saw the climate change act which committed to reducing emissions by 80% compared to 1990 levels by 2050. And in 2019 we saw that ambition increase to achieving net zero emissions by 2050. And what that has meant is, we have seen new policy regulation, new reforms to the market and innovation really transforming the electricity system. In the past 30 years Great Britain has almost halved its greenhouse gas emissions and the electricity system has already played a really important part in those reductions. And on the screen here you can see just how dramatic some of the changes have been. And so, in 2017 actually we had a really historic moment where for the first time, our electricity network operated without coal for the first time since the 1880s. And we've also seen numerous records broken, for example, in in 2020 we saw the longest call for you run of almost 68 days. And so we're continuing to see this evolution and continuing to see these dramatic changes across our system. And we're also preparing that by around 2024, we will have a call for a system. We will have one of the most reliable electricity systems in the world, which shows that you can be carbonized and and really by being proactive and understanding the opportunities and challenges from this energy transition, you can prepare to prepare and create solutions for those upcoming challenges. So if we move to the next slide. This shows just how much our carbon intensity and has changed in our electricity grid over the years. So, since 2013, we've seen over a 60% reduction in our carbon intensity. And with our ambition to operate, being able to operate a carbon free system by 2025. We've really had to adapt to these changes and I'll be talking a little bit about some of those changes in a moment. This can be done and we start from a relatively low baseline of renewable energy on on the on the electricity system in Great Britain, and actually we've seen dramatic changes. And so if we move to the next slide, as an example, and we've seen tremendous changes in the growth of wind power, for example, both on an offshore wind. And you might have heard of our Prime Minister's ambition to be the Saudi Arabia offshore wind, and we currently have 10 gigawatts of offshore wind connected. And that ambition is rising so the aim is to have 40 gigawatts of offshore wind by 2030. So as a system operator, what does that mean? It means we're working really hard with our regulator with government with the industry to make sure that we can play our part to help those ambitions be realized. And we've already seen great progress in the amount that wind is playing in our energy mix and part of the energy mix. So if we move to the next slide, I've touched there about some of the changes we've seen in the past few years in our electricity system, but we've also got an eye on the future. And what we do every single year and we've done for a decade now is develop our future energy scenarios. And what this does is set out a range of credible different pathways that we could decarbonize the energy system and help to meet the UK's 2050 net zero target. And so this plays a really important tool in stimulating debate but also helping us to prepare for the future. Let's move to the next slide. How exactly do we create these future energy scenarios. And well, just last year we had over 1700 interactions with around 460 different organizations spanning not just the energy sector but border as well. So we take that stakeholder insight and input and we combine it with our own analysis, our own modeling, and through that we set out for pathways for the future of energy. And these aren't just theoretical pathways and we practically use them to understand those, what could credibly happen in the future, and use it as the electricity system operator. So we have other network owners to plan for and, and operate the, the future energy system. It's also used by others to inform investment decisions support policy decisions, and really help to understand the way that how we use and generate energy and electricity could be changing in the coming years. Let's move to the next slide. And very briefly, what, what do those scenarios look at. And so we look at this by with these two axes in mind, what is the speed of decarbonization that we might see. And what is the level of society or change that we might see on the path to zero. And you can see that three of our scenarios meet that net zero by 2050 targets. On the top right hand side you see what is what we call the fastest credible decarbonization pathway that we might see. And but there are different ways that that could all that that could all help us reach 2050, and each of them have slightly different trade offs. So for example, in a system transformation world, you might see more of a role for hydrogen you might see less consumer behavior change. And actually, if you look at the consumer transformation side, that's where you might see more of an electrified world, where there is a lot more consumer behavior change, a lot more demand side flexibility. And I guess it's worth noting that to date, a lot of the changes that we've seen in our electricity system has been largely invisible to the public they've you know in terms of our day to day lives. We haven't seen that much of a change but actually consumer behavior could be a really important part of helping to reach net zero and helping that transformation of the energy system. For example, through the use of electric vehicles through being able to have smarter homes that are more flexible in terms of their energy use as well. So moving to the next slide. How do we bring this all together so we've got these reasons the future, but how are we practically helping to deliver that zero carbon operation. So this is, this is a significant piece of piece of work for us and always looking for new and innovative ways that we can support the evolution of our electricity system. One of the things we have done recently for example is we have a carbon intensity app and a dashboard so anyone who's interested in finding out more about the carbon intensity of our electricity system there's lots of information available. We're also working on developing new technical and market solutions, creating new services. So for example those services that might have been provided traditionally by coal or gas plant in the past. So looking at what does the system need and how do we help new solutions come forward to meet those needs. And that's where we have projects such as our pathfinder projects, looking at specific issues such as high voltage stability and constraint management, and also looking at some of those longer term issues such as developing high voltage and encouraging demand side participation. But it's important to note that as Keith touched on just earlier, no one person or what no one body can solve this on our own so we're really keen that we share knowledge, expertise and experience. And we're part of a number of organizations, including powering past coal alliance, go 15 and the global power system transformation consortium to help move this agenda forward. So if we can move to the next slide. And I touched on briefly there that the consumer behavior can play a really important role going forward. We've seen so much changing in our system already. And actually as we look to the future, we know how important consumer behavior change will be. So we commissioned a piece of research and that involved pulling over 4000 members of the British public and holding a number of focus groups to understand what matters most to the public when it comes to climate change and the energy transition. And I think it's some really great findings though. Actually, climate change is a really important subject for the British public 71% said that climate change is the most important or one of the most important issues of our time. And whilst the language that we speak, such as net zero isn't perhaps very familiar or accessible to the public. Once you explain that zero, they're very strongly supportive of it. And there are certain things that they they're really worried about when it comes to climate change, particularly the effect on on the environment on wildlife on future generations and the consequences of dramatic changes in temperature. And if we move to the next slide. What does that concern translate into. And we really want to understand and do consumers want to know one how can we best support them in engaging in the energy transition. So 63% of Britons want to know what more they can do to reduce impact and reduce impacts of climate change. And that's really important when we're talking about things like moving from natural gas boilers to heat pumps or adopting electric vehicles. And it's also important to understand who does the public trust when it comes to finding out how they can make more of these greener lifestyle changes. And perhaps unsurprisingly, and in our poll David Attenborough came out as the most trust with 81% of the public saying that they will trust him when it comes to advice on living a greener lifestyle. If we can move to the next slide. We've really taken this work a step forward further. And we've identified six different segments of the British population, each of whom face slightly different barriers and opportunities to engaging in the energy transition and embracing smarter greener homes and lifestyle changes. So we've landed on three clear areas that we know need to be a focus going forwards. The first is giving clear inspiration and guidance to the public on the steps that they can take such as improving insulation in the homes for example to help them in not just reducing the climate impact but also getting the benefits for example of their warmer homes going forwards. We know that lowering costs is an important issue for example in the adoption of electric vehicles, but also encouraging leadership by those in the public who perhaps are moving first and who are starting to see the benefits of adopting these greener technologies which also help the electricity system going forwards from the demand side, whilst those changes continue to occur on the supply chain supply side and really changing our energy mix. So in conclusion, moving to the next slide. We've seen a huge amount of change in the electricity system in Great Britain already. And it's clear that there's more to do going forwards. But I think there's, there are clearly opportunities and by being finding innovative solutions. There are different ways to address some of the challenges that we know will come with this transforming electricity system. So let's find out more about some of the insights that I've shared and you can see some of the publications there which will give you some further insights on the journey that we have in Great Britain. It's been lovely to talk to you today and I'll hand it over back to you Keith. You and me, Keith. You think after all this time would have got used to it anyway I win the prize for being the first person to start speaking without unmuting, which I think means a donation to charity or something anyway. Thank you very much. That was that was great. And those things that you pointed towards at the end there that can all be found online company that you know reports access downloaded, etc. And yeah, I'll mention I should have mentioned before that we welcome questions. So please use the Q&A function and I see we've got a couple of questions have come in. So as you go along just just pop some questions in there. I hope we'll have plenty of time to address these questions after all of these short presentations. There's one specifically to do Pali so maybe actually you could in the background type and answer to that question from from chip. So next, delighted to welcome a good friend through an organization called C gray, actually, which is the Conce international they ground reso electric with international international council large electric systems, a big kind of global knowledge sharing thing for people involved in electricity production distribution transmission regulation and so on. So, yeah, I've kind of got to know one Carlos Ronald and Britain all through that sort of sort of means so yeah over to you one Carlos. Thank you very much Keith. Hello, everyone. I'm going to share my screen. There we go so we can see the full PowerPoint thing there. And in presentation would fantastic. Thank you very much perfect. I'm going to present the decarbonization process and its challenges in Chile. Covering what's today the electricity power system in Chile, our installed capacity and energy production, how it has evolved over time, and what are the, our main challenges specifically related to the decarbonization process. Well, Chile is a very long and narrow country located in the southern part of South America. Our country started a reform of the electricity power sector in 1982. It was one of the first followed by the UK in 1999, if I've not mistaken. We introduced a competition generation as both market and the separation of the generation and distribution activities and later the transmission activity. We created in 1985, the system operators called CEDEC and they separated us independent entities in 1999. However, they were controlled by the generation and transmission companies. With the development of the different growing of electricity and the introduction of competition. Some reforms were made in 2004 in order to improve the regulation of transmission in order to facilitate competition in the electricity market, and also to create a participative and the collaborative planning process. The long term contracts to final customers via distribution companies was regulated in 2005 allowing competition there to and the renewable law finally saw the light of day in 2008 and it was improved in 2013. With a target in order to have a renewable generation starting in 5% in 2010 to 2014 and scaling up to 20% in 2025. As we are going to see we have overpassed this 20% this year. So we have met this target right now. And finally in 2016, we introduced additional changes in transmission in order to continue facilitating the connection of different plants all around the system and with the creation of coordinator, the independent system operator now. We are integrating the two main system interconnected system that form the national electric system that is very long 3100 kilometers from north to south with a capacity of around 29.7 gigawatts and a big demand of 11.2 gigawatts. There are two small systems independent in the in the extreme south but of small capacities. It's very important to remark that Chile possess a plenty of renewable energy sources. We have a very good desert in the north so so we have plenty of a very good locations for solar power, one of the best energy intensities in the world. The country has very good winds all along hydro resources that are mostly occupied at the moment. But we develop this capacity and we have formed a historically a hydrothermal system now integrating new renewable. The situation last year in 2020 in terms of capacity is has a diversity of sources hydro with the 26% coal with the 19% the same as natural gas with the 19% diesel 11% and solar PV and the wind with 13 and 10% respectively. You can see that thermal energy and the coal is around 60% due to an increasing situation of low hydro how hydro conditions. So we have been suffering. Dry conditions for around 20 years so it's very important that the climate change has been affected what historically was an important participation of hydro in the system. And as you can see a wind and solar have been growing up here we can see from 2013 to date how wind and solar have increased from very few megawatts to 2.5 gigawatts of wind and the 3.6 gigawatts of solar PV. So it's very important compared to other renewable sources like hydro. And this has been increased year by year. Additionally this year the first a concentrate concentration solar power of 110 megawatts with mirrors aiming on a special device that is producing a solar power during the day and night has been commissioned. For the future we expect that in the future this amount of renewable is increasing and all driven by market forces as I explained in the beginning. Chilean system has been driven by the competition in generation so the natural substitution of the different power plants is because of the reduction in the cost of the technologies. Thanks to the development of technologies particularly around the world and particularly with the research and development of European countries in Chile we have been thankful to receive that new technology with competitive prices as it showed some minutes ago with the reduction in the prices of wind power and solar PV power. So we expect that for the future most of the electricity is covered by those kind of renewable sources and in great color the capacity of coal that it was 5.5 gigawatts in 2018 has been forecast to be reduced in the next coming years as I am going to explain later. The big demand is increasingly slowly but constantly at the moment is 11 but we expect around 13 for 2025 and 17 or 18 around 2040 but it depends on the production of a green hydrogen because this figure can be increased a lot with that new challenge. In terms of the decarbonization as I showed you before in 2018 a board was constituted by the Ministry of Energy in order to analyze the decarbonization process. There a coordinator electric national presented decarbonization study on system operation and development in order to facilitate the discussion of this war. And finally in 2019 a voluntary agreement to retire coal fired power plants was initiated and I am going to show you how it has been evolved. Here, if you would like to check the study that the coordinator we developed in 2018 and publish in January 2019 is showing how the situation for the future in terms of annual operation and investment cost will be evolving. If we in the next 20 years if we don't decarbonize as you can see in great color coal fired plants are always present from 2020 to 2014. However, we analyze the situation with different schedules of decarbonization withdrawing all the coal fired power plants by year 2038 in this study we analyze different situations because it was prepared just to facilitate the discussion among the different stakeholders coordinated by the Ministry of Energy. And as you can see operation costs are reduced because of the introduction of renewables in the next decade and investment costs of course increase because of the amount of renewable energy connecting to the system. But all is put on the shoulders of the different market agents because this can be done without any feeding tariff or without any other subsidy. The idea is to get that reduction in CO2 emissions just facilitating the discussion between the market agents. In summary in 2019, the zero carbon energy plan was agreed by the government with the owners of the coal plants with an initial retirement of 1000 megawatts one gigawatts corresponding to 20% of the coal capacity. It was increased in 2020 to 11 plants with 31% of the coal capacity. And finally this year, other owners, international owners that own generation capacity in Chile because all the system is run by private companies in generation, transmission and distribution. And now some interesting things like the reconversion of some coal fired power plants to biomass or LNG and adding in total order in total a completing 18 coal plants with 3.5 gigawatts and in total reducing 65% of the coal capacity to be retired from here to the subset site. The Ministry of Energy has different schedules for this decarbonization and they have updated these figures of last year with that retirement in 2014 or 2030 to 2030 or 2035. But this is under development at the moment. Another challenges in the integration of variable renewable energy to the electric system is of course we are facing a growing volume of these kind of projects run all private with different locations around the country. And also we are seeing a rapidly expansion of distributed generation projects connected directly to the distribution grid. It needs a storage energy storage particularly in the north in order to be a good solution in combined with the solar PV power plants. It means a big challenge in terms of the security and quality of service of the system. In coordinator we are running inertia and short circuit studies in order to forecast the strength of the system and also be very proactive in terms of the new technologies because the massive integration of inverter based resources will require new technologies, particularly from technology providers, for example, including not a great following but the possibility to create the wave with investors. And also in terms of transmission, we are completing in the next most the tendering of the HP DC in the first HP DC power line in the system. We are going to have a logiric with 1500 kilometers from road to the center in order to facilitate the integration of this renewable transmission is a facilitator of the integration of renewable and we need to complement with facts device with the battery energy sources and of course green hydrogen production is another challenge in the system. In conclusion, the country has followed ambitious targets in the carbonization of the electricity supply based on on market based voluntary agreements and including citizen participation. I left here the references to the long term energy planning that is quite similar to the future energy scenarios that was shown by the valley. And the Ministry of Energy is at the moment running this update of the study to be a news from 2023 to 2027 with three very interesting scenarios, including one about hydrogen and some other reference about the sustainability. As I mentioned, the massive integration of renewable variable resources require bulk power transmission capacity, we are developing all the planning studies and the tendering the new transmission is a new facilitates with competition there in order to facilitate the competition and the integration of this new generation. It requires, of course, the system strength and technical studies are being addressed by coordinator during this year. Additionally, a flexibility is fundamental on the generation transmission and demand sites. So we need storage massive storage in the north, in order to be a good combination with solar PV and also using our hydro reserves. We have reservoirs in the south in order to combine a very well with the wind power located there. And finally, we expect a more active distribution grid and demand participation in order to be flexible and renewable system. Thank you very much. Hey, great. Thank you very much, Juan Carlos. So a whole range of things touched on there, including from some of the sort of, you know, I saw as higher level sort of issues around the variability of demand through the course of a day the variability of the wind and solar resources and how that leads to. Yeah, we can, you know, if you've got way of storing that the energy when it's windy and sunny for a time when it's needed but also that yeah, can people change their time of the process of what they're doing with electricity to match the times when it's windy and sunny. I think maybe Brito will come on and talk a little bit about touch on some of those kinds of things in her talk in a little while but another one of the things that Juan Carlos touched on was kind of the location some of the locations are really good, you know very windy places very sunny places, and they're not necessarily the same locations where all the electricity users are. Yeah, what's the role of the network in getting something from one place to another. So that leads us I think very neatly on into Ronald's talk, who's going to look a bit a bit into that in a little bit more detail for us. In Africa as a case study, I should mention as well that there's a mixture of kind of scale of resources here. So, yeah, there's lots of kind of local small scale electricity production like a single wind turbine or small solar PV panels, but actually there's a lot of large scale for the economies of scale it's really important as we kind of get towards decarbonisation and make sure that it's the electricity is affordable for as many people as possible so with that I'll hand over to Ronald. Great. Thank you very much, Keith. I'm just going to share my screen. All right, thank you. I presentation today is just to share some experiences on the transmission grid as an enabler for a much greater green renewable contributions into the system. And the first slide just to orientate about what our grid looks like. And generally we've got about 35 gigawatts in the country in terms of load or customers, dominantly in an area called how 10 which is in the center area of the of the country, and on the coastal area in Quasula Natel. Those are our dominant load centres and then we have additional load centres really spread around the coastal areas and in the interior, but rather sparse load. And if we look at the distribution of the load for the consumers, about 78% is in the sort of the north of the country and 22% in the south of the country. So quite a vast differential in terms of where the load centres are. If you look at the generation within the area, we have dominant conventional plant, which is dominantly coal based at this stage, both just outside the Khating province and in the north. And then we have a spread of gas along the coast and nuclear down in Cape Town and some hydro plant in the center of the country. In recent times we've also introduced quite a lot of renewables, just over six gig around six gigawatts, and the wind are located mainly over a vast area in the south of the country with the photovoltaic spread along the northern northeast boundary with a bit of CSP spread in the center. So the current mix of generation is about 79% in the north and 20, 21% in the south, which is quite useful because it's a very similar distribution as the load. So the grid historically really links the load and the generation together and ensures a reliable supply. So we have a dominant network in the north of the country. And then we have a sparse network that feeds down to the coastal areas and to supply the much smaller load centres in the south. Now, in terms of the generation mix, what you'll see is the ambitions is to move very rapidly to a much greater introduction of wind shown in the green and PV shown in the yellow with some storage in the red. And you can see over the past period, we see this significant reduction of coal within in South Africa. And this is a great advancement and taking advantage of very good resources that South Africa has. So in terms of the solar resources, we have great solar resources in the southwest of the country, not so good along the coastal or interior, but over a significant area. In terms of the wind, the red indicates the dominant high value areas. And you can see all spread along the south and the coastal area is significant wind resources with partial wind in the interior as well. However, the introduction of wind and solar should also be done in a responsible way. And so the environmental environmental ministry with the Council of Science and Industrial Research conducted studies to indicate where favourable areas would be which would not impact the birds and the bats and multiple criteria within the interior. So the black area shows you areas where it is unfavourable for many environmental point to come for solar and for wind. And these use different criteria for the different resources. And what can be seen is if you draw a red line across the country, we have a dominant favourable area for great wind resources in the south that is environmentally friendly with high heels. There is some scattered wind in the north, but it is significantly smaller than in the south. And although we have great wind resources in KZ in this province, there are significant environmental constraints which make it complicated to install wind in this area. PV on the other hand is spread over a much wider area, but also has a number of environmental considerations when looking at the installation from an environmental point of view. So we have a dominant location of renewables in the south for wind and in the south for solar. So if we have a look at the high heeled areas so that the areas where the solar is overlapped, the red areas indicate high value which will create low cost electricity generation for the solar areas. And as you can see along the coastal areas moving to the interior, it significantly reduces in value. And if we do the same for the wind, we see the same pattern emerge that the high value renewable resources are actually located in the south of the country for both dominantly wind and solar. And as we move more towards the north into these gray areas, it would have significantly higher cost implications have been moved into those areas. And the wind itself, although we often quote wind as a single value, wind has many different profiles depend on where they are. And these profiles are important. The shaded area shows the time of year between on the X axis we have the months in the year and the shaded area shows the dominant areas where we have peak loading in the country. And what you can see is in this particular wind profile, which is in the south of the country has has a fantastic wind resource which picks up and as a high average and great spread during these high demand periods. Where other resources have a significant lower average during this period of high demand. So the wind itself is important not only to have great wind resources, but also have great correlation with the demand in the areas. And this also is related to hourly period. So the X axis is the hours in a day. And the peak period in the shaded area typically happens in South Africa between hoppers fall in the afternoon and nine o'clock at night. And this first profile you can see that the wind tends to pick up during this period every day and which favors then the correlation with the demand when other areas indicated by the profile at the bottom. The wind actually starts to pick up and miss the peak demand periods, and then starts to peak at near midnight when the load is at its lowest, resulting in a great wind but not when we need it. And this then has significantly lower value. So the wind resources are very important to how they are spacely located and temporarily coincide with the load in the network. Correlation with the wind is also, I mean with the solar is also important. So this is again the months in the year. And this is in that northern corner, the southern corner in the high favorable areas of the solar. And what you'll see in the winter months, they're really producing significant amount of power from the solar plant, where in Cape Town, for example, during the winter months, where we have a lot of cloud cover, the solar drops off significantly and not supporting the peak demand loads. And the wind, the solar or the weather conditions play a very important role in order to ensure reliability of supply. And although South Africa is over a very wide area, we have many successive days where we have cloud cover that covers significant parts of the country. And as you can see in the south of the country, we still have fantastic wind and solar resources during these periods, but we would need to then move this power to the areas where the cloud cover is, which would block solar in these particular areas. And because they cover significant amount of consecutive days, rooftop PV with batteries could be problematic that the storage facility over such a large period of time would not be adequate. And it would be much more efficient really to share this resource in the south and move the power up under these conditions. So in South Africa's context, we see the load really staying very much where the positions are historically with about 78% in the north, 22% in the south. But we see a dramatic change where the dominant future resources being solar and wind will be located in the southern part of the country. This is creating a large change in the way that we have to secure areas on the network, the green dots show the wind and the yellow dots show the solar. And this significant change in the generation mix means that we need to consider redeveloping these networks not for load but for the significant generation, which typically is three times the amount of load in the area. And we need to almost have a meshed network that can harvest the renewables no matter where the wind is blowing within this region or where the sun is shining to ensure a more consistent supply into the load centers and be able to move that power within the area. And the transmission network really plays this role to harvest the best renewable resources and to be able to create this diversity and supply the load centers. Very often there is much talk about the volumes of renewables and often the appreciation for these volumes are not well considered. So if we look in the in South Africa, for example, the two major load centers as I mentioned was how to take the center area and KZN. But if we had to remove that and calculate the average of any of the remaining provinces, we'll see that the average peak demand is about 2200 megawatts. So that's the entire provinces demand at its maximum. And the grid historically has been built to supply that load center. So when we talk of adding three to six gigawatts of renewables per year into the grid, we can see that this is two to three provinces load per year. And this significantly creates congestions on the grid and therefore requires rapid rollout of the transmission in the areas to unconstrained the transportation of the renewables. And we are well versed with disruptive technologies and we've seen this with comparisons with the smartphone and the landlines and uber and the taxis. But these disruptive technologies really have significant enablers where the smartphone has had cell phone networks, 1G, 2G, 3G, 4G networks to enable these smartphones. And the uber taxis had a significant investments in the internet which enables these disruptive technologies to work. And we really need to question that if these investments in these grids did not take place preemptively, would the disruptive technologies have taken off as well as they did. And we could consider renewables and conventional plant as renewables being the disruptor. And the question really is how well will renewables really be enabled if we don't have this pre-investment in the network to create this enabling environment to not only use renewables but to share the value of the renewables across all the users. And the grid then becomes really an enabling factor not to get off the grid but really to utilize the grid to the benefit of all to minimize the prices and enable the faster integration of great renewable resources. Thank you very much. Fantastic. Thank you very much indeed. So we start to kind of see some of the sort of challenges or opportunities at the same time I guess opportunities to develop renewables as a source of energy and the challenges and being able to utilize those sources. And we see also the interactions of technologies and we kind of okay we're not going to get into a tutorial on the sort of some of the things we talked about like system inertia or short circuit current or high voltage DC inverters and all that. And I think that the technologies are enablers and partly that you know enable people to do what they want with energy, but also to make it as easy as possible for people. And so that people part of the mix and kind of thinking of this as a whole kind of energy system not just individual technologies is really important I think, and that's something that Britain is going to talk a bit about now I think so over to you Britain. Thank you so much Keith so what impressive presentation so far. I will try to add value to that with extending a little bit more about technology. Let me share my screen first and I hope it's the right one. So I should share now. So can you see now. Yeah, perfect. Fantastic. And you see my mouse right because yes, yeah. So, well, further to all the speakers before I would like to add the perspective of a technology providers I work with the touchy energy, which is a global technology provider for all the things that we need for the energy transformation. We have the big pleasure in that company to have the role of accelerating energy transformation and really finding the technologies together with customers that we need to make that happen. Next slide. Yes. So, when we talk about power systems and energy systems without fossil fuels. I guess the speakers previously have already said we will need to see consider solar and wind energy as our new primary energy resource. So if we get rid of fossil fuels, we will need solar and wind, and they generate electricity so electricity will be the backbone of the entire energy system. And that there we need to accelerate the shift from fossil based to this renewable power generation. Accelerate means fast. That comes with a couple of challenges then I said before as well we need to grow also the electrification of anything we can so we would electrify transportation industry processes and also heating sector and buildings. In order to use the electricity generated by solar and wind mainly in these sectors as well. And in addition, we will still need other energy carriers such as hydrogen was mentioned before. And this will be complimentary to direct electrification electrification because obviously it's not possible to use electricity everywhere directly we mentioned already that there must be storage there must be seasonal storage and of course the electricity is not generated where it's needed. Let me say a few words about the challenges and many of them have been mentioned before so I tried to add new perspectives also to to what has been said before. With this plenty of solar and wind plants we have will run to natural constraints of space of materials of everything so we will need to ensure that we spend the resources on the right things at the right time and it has been said before for example it doesn't make sense to invest a lot in only renewables. When we do not have the power system to support transporting the electricity then from where it is generated to where it is needed what was just said about South Africa, for example. But also without having the capability in the power grid to to balance generation and demand at all times. That would result in curating renewable energy and then this investment would be strength investments. So we need to ensure that that the constraints are considered and that the systems are developed at the right pace with the right components, let's say. The other challenge that we see as a technology provider together with our customers in the grid operators mainly is that we have a real bottleneck in connecting the renewables to the existing power system. That has to do of course with the fact that power system operators want to ensure that when they connect, especially larger plants but also smaller plants, that the power quality was really okay so they need to do some calculations before allowing the renewables to connect. That takes up to years at the moment and this is not at all acceptable. If we talk about reducing carbon emissions fast. So there needs to be done something about connecting renewables faster to the grid. The other challenge is the higher demand. So we see in industry we see sometimes a threefold energy electricity demand if processes are converted into electric processes. And we see demand rising in countries that haven't seen such a rise since many decades. So there needs to be an investment into infrastructure and at the right place at the right time is that before. The overall challenge of a power system and I would like to draw your attention to that very very basic fact, especially for the non power engineers in the room. So the main challenge of the power system is to balance the generation and demand at all times. Now you can imagine that the electricity generated by wind is directly related to the wind blowing and the electricity generated by solar is directly related to the direct sunlight. So if a cloud passes, then immediately the electricity generation will go down the same way that the direct irradiation goes down. This is a new challenge. And if you think about wind parks and solar parks like in Germany we have now more than 120 gigawatts is already. This is a significant change in power as that in a short time that needs to be balanced. This is why, in order to keep the frequency of 50 hertz or 60 hertz stable. We need to look both at the generation side how we can make those performing like better as good citizens with a better ramp rate to not to have such immediate changes, maybe together with storage. At the same time we would need all the flexibility we have from the users from the demand side to support balancing this fluctuating fluctuating generation and the demand. And you can imagine that that needs quite some some energy management some data some it and I. Another challenge that was mentioned as congestion but let me say a few words for again for for those maybe who are not experts in the power systems. The other challenges really the thermal challenge so if you try to transfer too much electricity through cable or transformer, then they just get hot and we need to avoid overheating our assets so we need to know which power flows we expect and where we expect them. And we need to upgrade the system or find other ways of keeping the energy where it is. And yeah, considering these operational conditions at all times. The next challenge I would mention is the inertia. That was mentioned before in one word as well so to expand that a bit in our conventional system, we have the, a lot of rotating masses so they, the energy is usually has usually been generated by machines that are rotating a lot of mass rotating and you can see that if there's an increase in load. These, these large masses are not too much impressed by this changes and they just keep rotating for for long while it's this inertia and the system. And so the frequency was not too much impacted by small changes. But now if you have like up to over 50% of renewables that is inverter based and has power electronics as an interface. So instead of this inertia of the masses to keep frequency stable we would need fast responses of the inverters of the power electronics to make up for that and I will show you an example later how that works. So this is these are challenges that are there and that can be solved and I hope I can give you the, the good news that technology is there so we the engineers have worked hard and they're good solutions to to work on this. The, the important thing is on the solution side that we plan together with all stakeholders this is not only a technological issue this is a regulatory topic so many technologies don't get implemented because the regulatory context doesn't support it. I bring you an example from Australia that is possible in Australia and the same thing would not be possible in Europe for example for regulatory reasons and not for technology reasons. And then we will think of the system of systems so we will need to think in also using these renewables to make the system more resilient by having many systems that would operate also independently from each other. So in case of extreme weather conditions that we must expect in the future, but also in case of cyber security hackers and so on so must become more resilient towards those things. And the renewables help us here, if we have that grid forming inverters that were mentioned before and we have them. Then we think of sustainable products and solutions not only to burn less fossil fuels but also to emit less greenhouse gas emissions by merely having a better efficiency using less energy but also by using other gases that are that have no or less impact on the greenhouse effects such as SF63 switch gears. And further to that there are a lot more news and power electronics and for everything we will need the data and digitalization so we will need a system that has much more data that has much more sensors much more AI in the background to allow for everything we need for connecting renewables faster because we know if we can afford more for ensuring that we have no congestions and so on. So this is in a nutshell the technology perspective of this electricity system of the future that will be the backbone of the entire system. And then just a few examples. Yeah, we talk about 2050 but honestly the most important years are the next years by 2030 and there. We see that the renewable capacity, the global and global numbers here must grow four times more than it is today that's that's something with the challenges that I was presenting before. We see the electric car sales are expected to increase the 18 fold and based to the level today and industry emissions must also drop significantly already by 2030. And we see that large industrial leaders have jumped on that journey and they say yes, we can do it and we will do it. I'm really positive that with these industrial leaders of global companies we will see a change in industry here as well. Let me say a few words about, like, what can be done technology wise and you have heard the challenges before. I start with the renewable energy on top here so we when we integrate solar and wind into the system every country has a grid code and says okay if you want to connect to my system you need to comply with certain quality criteria let's say so you should not drop energy more than a certain percentage per minute or per hour, or you must allow for certain factor on on reactive power. So, renewable automation is key to having a smooth integration of wind and solar into the existing grid. We see that storage is connected directly with the renewable plant in order to generate these ramp rates that are better than so if a cloud passes by then it's not an immediate drop but the battery can kind of balance out a bit of that and then this renewable plant becomes a better citizen that say more planable they can provide and deliver schedules which is very helpful for system operator. We can be managed into micro grid so that with the loads and everything we have a control system that lets the generators and the load speak to each other. And that ensures that the balance is kept at all times within this micro grid and that in case the upstream network gets lost. And that will upgrade on its own, which makes it safer that can be for a city for a village, like South Africa for an island for an island. We had an example there or in Australia for a peninsula for example. And then we have all the other devices like e-touching and so on. Critical to all of this is a good communication system because you cannot communicate without having that established in place. Having said that, I would come with this example. It was mentioned before we would need a grid forming a battery energy storage system and I would like to share with you that this one is running since 2018 very successfully in Australia. So there's a peninsula in South Australia, where you have a wind and solar and the size of like 90 megawatt. And the load is about 30 megawatt documented and I put the address for you. Oh, we seem to have some technical challenges, I think. So we lost your slides there, Britannia. I wasn't sure if it was my link going down or kind of quite short of time as well. It'd be good. We have sorry, you know, we can probably get on to the questions because I think there's some great ones. So I was just about to conclude. So I think I want to share that this is, can you hear me again? Yep, that's good. Okay, great. No, just concluding. I think the solutions are there. And what I really want to say as well is that it's really important that we collaborate and use such events like this one or also you mentioned before to really find solutions together. So thank you very much. Yeah, we are wrapping up anyway. Thank you very much, Britannia. So I think the really important point that there are these challenges, but also technology helps to deliver solutions. But it's still important that we do, like you said, about the resources, you know, we kind of need to utilize resources in a kind of conscientious way, which means making best use of them and using the technology to help us make best of use to them, actually, isn't it? Okay, cool. So we'll ask all of our panelists to come come back on video now. And I'm just going to go quickly on to the question because we've only got about 10 or 11 minutes left in our session, but the first one was posed right back at the beginning of our session by Aaron. So does the energy transition put, I think LDCs is the less developed countries, I think if I'm right, with less access to clean energy at a comparative disadvantage, if the barriers to entry and building infrastructure is high. And if they are at a comparative disadvantage, what sort of economic levers or incentives can be used to stimulate this transition. So I don't know, I might come to Ronald first to see if you can suggest an answer to that and then I'll see who else wants to come in now. Yes, I think it works both ways. I think the renewables scattered all over the country also creates opportunity that as you are rolling out the networks, you actually are creating greater access across wider areas for electricity. But the funding of this and the ability to implement it does become a hurdle. And green financing, assistance in areas to get low carbon financing to expand these network or even donor funding will really significantly support these initiatives in these countries. Yeah, and I've heard it suggested actually that, okay access to finance is a big challenge as you were saying, but the countries that don't already have, you know, kind of wedded to a lot of fossil fuels actually have an opportunity to bypass all of that and go straight to these these technologies like wind and solar which on a per megawatt hour basis are deeper, albeit you have this problem this challenge of the variability. So I don't know if anybody else, I don't know if Dipali or Juan Carlos or Britain want to add anything to that. We see really, as you said that it's possible to leapfrog on things that others have done different or wrong, or at least different. So that that, especially in the areas where you do have the renewable resource that this is captured and I guess the technology is there so it's a matter of raising the funds for the right things. And that's where also large organizations are happy to support with very neutral support and finding the right technology for the right application of the right country. Yeah, and Juan Carlos a lot of the investment that's gone in to change the generation mix in Chile is sort of international money isn't it I think. Because all the companies are, majority of them are of international owners, so all the money directly in generation transmission and distribution are coming from abroad, and it has been in the last 30 years running well. I know I guess that might, I guess it might raise some worries about sort of economic independence but actually it's, it's sort of, it looks like it's been beneficial because it's helped this transition in Chile. Yeah. Sorry, go on yeah. There was a question related to this in the Q&A shot related to the Chilean experience this. Yeah, it's shown economic experiment. Well, really we have been an economic technical social experiment for the last 30 years or more. Almost 14. And that experience was shared by the Latin American countries in the 90s. After the reforming the economy, the economy and the electricity sector. In the 90s, Argentina, Colombia, Peru, Brazil reformed their electricity sectors. And in the beginning, the same Chilean companies arrived to our neighbor countries to buy companies in generation or distribution. And there was a very interesting development. And after that, investors mainly from Spain, from the US, from the UK, national grids, invested in the Argentinian transmission grid, when it was privatized around 1994, 1996, I remember. It meant that all that new economy and new way to drive the development of the countries was present there. It is also there but some political constraints and specifically in the case of renewable resources in some countries it is in conflict for example some countries that they have their own cold production it's in conflict with the the economy. What are they going to do with the coal miners compared to the renewable integration and other countries for example Peru, they are plenty of natural gas and hydro so they have been developing the economy based on those resources compared to the variable renewable like solar and wind. Yeah, thank you. And maybe that kind of in a way that reference to the fossil fuels and maybe the companies leads on to another question that is in the chat. And maybe we'll come on to some of the sort of the just transition in a moment I know I think that's been discussed in some other sessions in the conference. And we have a lot of time here but it's a really important question I think but the best engagement and advocacy methods as a question from Chip about that. Yeah, I mean you referenced some survey work. So I mean what sort of answer would you suggest to this question about what what might be the best engagement or advocacy methods to reach recalcitrant or hesitant, hesitant segments of the public and and I mean courage leadership actually as well. Absolutely. And I think it's important to say that there won't be one single solution that can solve it all. And if I can point to me some of the findings from our recent research, and one of the statistics that really surprised me from from pulling over 4000 members of the public. We asked the public. What do you think have happened to UK missions in the past 30 years. Do you think they have increased the same or gone down. So the statistics will show that emissions have almost halved in the past 30 years, but actually over 70% of the public thought emissions have increased. In a very straight away it shows that there's a knowledge gap but also, you know the ability to trust government and businesses to deliver those those targets and deliver change. It needs to be understood by the public so I think education awareness information is an important part of it. But I think it's also important to see this as not just a carbon issue so, for example, improving insulation and homes which also helps the electricity system actually. Keeping your family warm. It means lower ongoing bills and moving to electric vehicles. For example, we see in the UK we've seen low emissions zones which have really helps improve air quality. So it's really important to look at these solutions holistically so yes they really support the electricity system and achieving climate ambitions, but by putting the needs of the consumer and the public at the heart of these proposals as well, you're able to look at these solutions more holistically and help engage public value to I think. Thanks very much there's a few questions sort of related to storage energy storage. Energy systems have made use of energy storage. Since the beginning, we've got these mechanisms by which I was in a session this morning talking about long term energy storage and I asked well how long term is long term. Is it to extend to millions of years which is the period over which we've used the sun's energy and it's been turned into fossil fuels. We're trying to sort of do that conversion of the sun's energy into solar and wind into kind of a usable convenient for much more quickly, and without the CO2 emissions. So that's in a nutshell perhaps perhaps the challenge but but we've been able to have piles of coal or of wood or, you know, tanks of gas or petroleum. It's very convenient. So I don't know if anyone wants to pick up this question about what are the storage technologies I think there was a question specifically about Hitachi's technologies what are the sorts of things that are being offered on the market. Yes, so thanks for that question. Actually, so our specialty is really always the integration of anything into the power system so also for storage. So Hitachi as you say for the, like the flywheels for the very quick fast response and that might be combined with lithium mine which is now just bankable I would say we're talking about finance so lithium mine is absolutely bankable solution. And it can comply with all these things that you would need a microgrid. It wouldn't cover months or years of course but it would cover a day or two depending on how you, how you size it of course and. So the first commercial projects at the moment run with the lithium mine battery but then you have others like sodium sulfur and and flow batteries and so on that that cover the several hours capacity very well. So the first question is always what do I need it for and we usually engage with our customers in this discussion very early asking so what is what is the task for the storage and then based on the task. So I would say that the energy should be defined and then also the power electronics around it. I would say there's a huge research in that so there's tremendous speed in getting cost down and finding new ways of storage and. Yeah. So this is absolutely something where we invested as I said mainly in the in the integration piece from our energy. Thank you. So if if Delaney doesn't mind I don't know if it can go over a minute or two but only a minute or two I just want to give a still question we haven't answered I'm sorry about that. But I'm just going to give the chance going to go around all our four speakers. Anything you want to say very quickly in one sentence either to pick up one of the questions or something else as a kind of wrapping up. So, I think I'll come in the order in which we which we all spoke so Deepali. Absolutely. So I think what we have heard from from all the panelists today is that all of our electricity systems are already transforming. And there are some great experts around the world who are working on these challenges and finding solutions to make sure that we can deliver clean affordable reliable energy and in countries around the world. So it is about working together sharing best practice and really helping each other on this journey to deliver the Paris agreement. Yeah, brilliant. That's a very good message. Thank you. And who did we have next we have one Carlos. Last remark. Last remark is about technology a message for Britain for all the technologists around. We think that the movement from synchronous generation to electronic power electronics is very important so grid forming vectors are very well expected by the market and we need it as soon as possible. Thank you. Yeah, we've still got 100 odd people in the room. I don't know how many of people here are themselves technologists or engineers or scientists but if you've, if you're at an early stage in your career not quite wondering where to go or you've got friends or relatives wondering what to do. Yeah there's plenty of need for engineers and especially electrical power electronic engineers so you're very welcome come on in. So, Ronald, any last remark from you. Yes, I think there's no time to waste implementation is critical and the main amount of work should not be underestimated. And we really got to get going soon. Thank you. Yeah. Great so that kind of has a good reference to speed given they've gone two minutes over the end of the session as well. So yeah, thank you and bitter last remark from you. Thanks just to add to that we must hurry up and we must work together so I think that's my key message and we can do it so I'm really positive we will make it but we must do it now and all together. Thanks. Great discussion to everyone thanks. Thank you indeed. Thank you to all for our panelists thank you to the secretariat for helping to facilitate all of this. Thank you to all of our audience for coming for spending the time, listening to us I think there's a recording which I'm sure will be made available via the website of the conference at some point soon. And with that, you know, kind of only two minutes over so and apologies again for not answering your specific question, but I hope you've enjoyed the discussion and found something interesting, and enjoy the rest of the conference. I look forward for it and I'm in Glasgow right now which is where COP 26 is taking place I was there in the blue zone yesterday and the day before I'm going to try and get back in tomorrow if the cues are not too bad. And we've had some progress here it's not looking too bad but there's much more progress to go and another week or so of negotiations so we'll all be watching it with with great interest. So with that, I'll wrap up. Thank you very much. Enjoy the rest of the conference and goodbye. Bye bye.