 We're back. Governor Samuel Othom of Benua State in Central Nigeria has written to the President Muhammad Abu Hari for firearm licensing for the newly established Benua State community volunteer guards inaugurated last week to provide surveillance and intelligence gathering in the wake of persistent headsman attacks in Benua State. The Otomo disclosed this on Monday while playing host to a delegation from the Northern Christian Women Coalition at Government House in Makodi says the move became necessary following the legitimated process of establishing the guards to help restore peace to troubled parts of the state. He said the President he knows will approve his request to also empower his people against their transducers and our best leave room for fair level of response in the defense of his people. This is an interesting scenario and we're asking as far as the security situation in the country is concerned. Is this what Nigeria needs at this point to tackle its worsening in security? We have joining us to discuss this. Shekman Chopiton who is the chairman of ACT Network. He is in Ikeja League of Nigeria. Shekman Chopiton, good morning to you and thank you very much for your time. Good morning. Thanks for having me. Good morning, Nigeria. What are your thoughts on the emergence of regional and state vigilante groups, neighborhood watch groups and all that in different parts of the country? In the southwest, it's Saturday, it's been on for some time. We've seen what they've done in those states with arrests. You go to the southeast, they have a bubuagu which hasn't been so successful. In some parts of the South South, for instance, in River State, they have their own local vigilante group, known as OSPAC, in Cross River State. They have something going on there as well. So we have pockets of all these things going on. In the northern part of the country, how via civilian JTF as they called, are these what we need at this point to nip insecurity in the bud? Well, thanks again for having me. You know, there's a common saying that nature upholds a backing. And I think that what we're seeing now is a backing being built physically. We can't have a country as vast as Nigeria in terms of landmarks, as diverse as it is, in terms of its ethnic configuration. And think that you can effectively provide clarity across the entire length and breadth of that landmass from a central command point. It's not going to work. I mean, we have the evidence, the years of history to prove this. It's not working. So what you're seeing is simply nature trying to take up a backing. A lot of these politicians that are put in these machineries and processes in this don't necessarily support the definition of powers, don't necessarily support the restructuring it puts and debates, but they are confronted with an existential threat. And this is pushing them to do for solutions. And if you examine these things carefully, you'll see that amotec is beginning to record some successes because they are on ground. And they have the confidence of the people on ground, of the communities on ground. So it goes without saying that these things are necessary. These things need to be done. Since the federal government and the, you know, I'm going to say federal government, I mean both the executive and the legislature, since they have refused to address the issue of state policing and community policing properly confronted headband, deal with the potential challenges that the library, you know, what you have now happening is that, you know, the world is simply responded, you know. So it's really, really as simple as that. All right. We're looking at the intention of the governor here. I mean, this group has been from the volunteer guards in Benres, it has been from, or have been formed already, but the governor is talking about AK-47, you know, grade weaponry. When we look at the vigilantes model of security, you know, community policing and all that, do we need to see these groups being armed with weapons as sophisticated as the AK-47, no matter how old it is, you know, but we know what an AK can do? Well, I mean, so the thing is, if you ask the question, what are they being set up to do and who are they being set up to confront? Because this is a, supposedly, a direct response to the assaults that have been inflicted on communities in that region, it's not just Benes, it's Benes State, Platinum State, Masarau State, Araba State, you know. So if you look at the invasion and the immediate forces that are rampaging those places and you look about their aunt, you know, what they come with and they come, then you have to ask yourself, what kind of guns, what kind of weaponry should a supposed security force that is set up to confront these people, what should they be armed with? We definitely can give them day guns because those guys are coming, the list they come with are AK-47s. Some of them have RPGs, they have full automated machine guns, you know. So how do you want to go about confronting something where you're armed with a day gun, with a thumb action rifle, you know. So I think that it's only natural that you seek to earn your security response appropriately and the AK-47 appears to be the minimum. I recognize the dangers in giving such a sophisticated weapon that can fire multiple rounds of bullets in a few seconds to what you might say people that are not properly trained to use them. So I recognize that I think that what needs to happen is that the governor needs to provide assurances and I want to believe he might have done that in his request to the president to provide assurances that there is going to be a proper training of these people on how to use these things. On the psychological part of going around with that amount of power in your hands, it intoxicates, right. So it would be very dangerous for the governor to give such weapons and such weaponry to people that are not being properly conditioned to handle that power responsibly. And that's the flip side of the question. So yes, I agree that those guys need to be armed because we can just sit back and watch people being killed daily, you know. We become desensitized to these events and these things have simply become news bits. The minimum bits that are being killed have become news items and numbers. We can't continue like that. So for me, I think it's about time that state governors, regional authorities begin to put in responses like this. However, we need to be careful about the red flags. So when I was listening to the treatment by Governor Potom, there were a number of things that he said that for me were red flags. One of them is to say, oh this is probably said as a preparation for the community elections. That's a red flag, you know. Another point he made was the issue of talking to the committee guys, what do they call them, right, to be responsible with how they use that power. For me, that's another red flag. So the governor has a lot of work to do to ensure that he does not unleash monsters on his own people. You know, this is very, very critical. If you look at the homosexual population, they don't have AK47s. You know, they are hungry to less of a state of work. And they're still, you know, achieving some level of effectiveness. But the problem they are confronting in the South West is slightly different from what's happening in the various states and in other parts. So I think the argument for the AK47 might be there, but the governor has a lot of work to ensure that this does not backfire. Very interesting that you've raised the point made by the governor, where he has showed that he will not be using these men in the better state community volunteer guards to prosecute the election or to fight for votes during the election. So I was going to ask you, you know, we've looked at, we've seen incidents of such similar cases situation in River State where Governor Wicke tried to form River State Neighborhood Watch, Safety Watch and the Army did not allow that last, you know, the training camp was invaded and the thing was brought to an abrupt end. There were fears and insinuations and suspicion that the governor was prepping the Neighborhood Watch in River State for the election. So he denied this in the state of Thomas also had to come out to deny this. And what can be done in, because you've said Neighborhood Watch is a vacuum and we can continue like this, you know, with the security situation in the state, which is our case study. So what can be done by all concern, the government, the federal government especially, to ensure that such a body, if the arms are approved for them are not used, you know, to scotting elections? Well, that's a very, very difficult question. I don't think that can be led. I think that it's an issue that has to be addressed probably from a moral perspective. Of course, you're going to have legislation, you know, to where, if you look at some of the proposals for state policing that we've had in the past, you had, I read one very interesting one where the command structure that was proposed for the state police across the different states are, you know, in the country will be put together in such a manner that the governor would not be able to control that. And the manner that the federal government currently controls the federal police. So I'm saying, for example, that the commissioner police of a state police court will not be appointed by the government, but rather by an independent panel made up of a very diverse number of groups in terms of composition, representatives from civil society, representatives from maybe history, representatives from elders, elder statement, community leaders, rural fathers, you know, and all of that coming together to then examine people that are suggested to be looked at, that structure, you know, maybe that might be something that we can do, because one of the things we don't want is to empower our governors with such a force to the extent that we've seen what they've done, we've seen what some of these governors have done in the past, you know. So we have to be careful about that. But I think it's going to be a mix of legislation and the weight of society pulling responsibility on these governors. If you look at some of the accusations that we've had in the past, the states had such an issue during the tenure of, I think it was, of Namusi. And even this issue of Boko Haram supposedly resulted from a governor arming from thugs, we quote, and then the thing has metamorphosed, it's what we have to take. In Reba State that you mentioned, we all know what happens there with the issue of the cultists and how some of them might be on the payroll of the state from government officials, you know. So these things are there and they're real. And I think it's a delicate balance, honestly. We can't ignore those issues. But at the same time, I don't think that they're enough for us to say we shouldn't go down this road. So we need to think creatively to put in the required checks, balances and concrete to ensure that politicians don't abuse the security of this. Finally, let's look at the Ibuwago situation, the nation's southeast, where of course the governance of the five southeastern states met and decided to form this vigilante group. So far it's been active in very active in Imo State, active in Anambra in Abia State as well in pockets in Anambra State, but not really super, super active over there, also very active in Imo State. So you have Anambra Inugu not pushing the throttle as much as the other states. But like we've seen in the Awomama incident where seven persons were killed, suspected by Ibuwago operatives, though the governor says it's DSS, and the natives feel it's Ibuwago and in recent days, IPOB has come out to say they all niche venom on Ibuwago in Imo State. This vigilante outfit is hugely unpopular among natives of southeast Nigeria, both home and abroad, hugely unpopular. The incidents are all documented. What went wrong with Ibuwago that Otom and those in Benoist state can learn from to avoid? You know, it's a very, very interesting issue you've put in, and I think for me that is actually the perspective we need to look at this issue from. It's that just like we've said Nigeria is diverse, Nigeria is vast. We have a complex mix of religion, tribe, religion, influencing event across the country in different ways. So when you talk about the southeast, for example, you will recall that when Ibuwago was first of all proposed about three years ago there about memory serves, there was immediate opposition from ESN, from iPhone, and the military or militia wing. In fact, ESN actually issued threats to citizens to say, look, anybody that joins Ibuwago does so at all risk or a statement, you know, something along those lines. So you have a situation where in the southeast, the Ibuwago was supposedly set up to perhaps do exactly what Otom is trying to achieve with his own guide by strategy set up. But there is an internal conflict going on there between the political class and perhaps a certain segment of that of religion. You know, people that are sympathetic to the Ipob conflict, people that are sympathetic to the Biafra philosophy, you know, say, look, why are these guys siding with the Ibuwago member by creating this so-called security cost? You know, so there's that conflict right there. And I don't think you have a similar situation in Nigeria, such that you then stay or maybe work on Otom, learn from what is happening there. I think the southeast situation is a bit peculiar because Ipob is already very strong on ground. ESN is ubiquitous. You really can't even say who is and who isn't sympathetic to the cost of these people, you know. So each of these security outfits on each region must approach the issue based on the peculiarities that exist on ground in their own communities. And I think that's just how this has been put on. And again, this simply just speaks to the fact that the kinds of police in Nigeria with the central police force, the contending issues are sympathetic to conflicts, for you to achieve that. And that's why we see, you know, the insecurity that we have all over the country today. You know, the federal government simply can't do this. And that's just the truth. All right. All right. We have to leave that very interesting analysis from you, Shagun Shopitong. We appreciate your time and hope to have you join us on the program sometime soon. Yeah, thanks for having me. You're right. Fantastic. And that's the size of our package. The security situation will continue to generate reactions and discussion. And we definitely will be bringing you the analysis and coverage subsequently as events unfold on the breakfast right here on Plus TV Africa. You can follow us on social media, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube at Plus TV Africa. On YouTube, we also are at Plus TV Africa lifestyle. And we look forward to engaging with you on these platforms from all of us here in Tagru. Thank you very much for your time. My name is Kofi Bhattel. We return tomorrow with more on the breakfast. Good morning.