 It's still the breakfast and plus TV Africa, time for us to head straight to our first major conversation right here. Now at this point we'll be looking at the issue of parenting, we're looking at education and all that surrounds our children and this is following the issue of the sex, rape and scandal of Chris Lanskoe. But of course we have Justin here, how was it? Good morning Missy, I'm doing okay, how are you doing this morning? Have you joined me? It's all right. Yeah, today could have been a very wonderful day but it will still be a good day, you don't have to be just trying to manoeuvre through Lagos and all, but thanks that I'm here all the same. Yeah, so like Missy said we'll be looking at them, the fallout of what happened at the Chris Lanskoe when the children went to Dubai. But we'll look at the angle of our parenting education upbringing and of course all the latest twist and update on that particular incident and we have a guest joining us this morning and let's make welcome Betty Abba, she is joining us, she is a journalist, she is a woman, a child advocate and she will be giving her own perspective concerning all of the issues on the show. Good morning to you Betty, she is also the founder, executive director of Sea Hope Nigeria. Thanks for joining us Betty Abba. Thank you so much, it's a pleasure. Yes, let's just dive right through it, you know in our pre-charts yesterday we were talking about the development when it was still fresh and how Ubi Franklin posted and was saying that a child of 10 was raped. You know since then Chris Lanskoe has been closed, all its branches in the state has been closed and there are more revelations concerning what has happened. A sex tape was posted all through Twitter and reactions have been trailing all of that. But let's talk right now, a lot of people have said that it is the issue from the home front, a lot of people have said that it is an issue of upbringing and some have even said that it is a case of an education. Let's just get your general perspective concerning all that has happened so far, Betty. Thank you very much. I think I would like to see from a professional angle and that is to say in all of these wars should be at the back of our minds should be in the interest of the minors or the minors that are involved in this very unfortunate incident will blame the parents because I understand that the girl even has a social media handle. I forgot the name of the page. She has over 500 videos, many of the videos shot at school and all of that. So where were the parents in all of these? I saw there is a failure on the part of parents in no doubt and I also look at it from the angle of Chris Lanskoe. They never handled this case well and a lot of scoundrels have trailed Chris Lanskoe unfortunately in the past, which they never handled well. In the first place, why did they leave minors unattended to on a foreign trip? They went to Dubai and then these children had the liberty to roam around in hotels, girls going to boys' room and all of that. Why did that happen? And then when this unfortunate incident came to light before the school, I understand that from the parents, from the mother's explanation, they never knew they were kept in the dark and then these children were taken, the girl was taken for a pregnancy test about two or three times without the parents' knowledge or consent. And then there resorted to stigmatization, there resorted to blackmail, there resorted to threatening the girls to keep mutes and all of that. I keep asking, who are the handlers of Chris Lanskoe? Who are the advisors of Chris Lanskoe? We saw a very standard case that happened about a few years ago. A teacher that was accused of raping a two-year-old girl or sexually molested a two-year-old child defilement and the school went through the way to hire a senior advocate of Nigeria, a lawyer, a big lawyer, and spent millions of Naira obviously to defend this teacher. At the end of the day, he was convicted to a 60-year imprisonment by the Lagos state government after there were clear evidence that he actually did this. So who are the advisors of Chris Lanskoe? Who are from there? Who can do cases like this? And also to say that the rest of the society, we also failed our children, we failed this girl, we failed as many people as were involved in that standard law, say 60. Who are the boys? Who are the people that put it out, that put the video out? And why are we as adults, as standards by, why are we sharing it? Why are we doing mobbing? Why are we mobbing the girl? Instead of seeing how we can offer help to these girls. She needs help, her parents need help. The boys that were involved in this need help. Understand the girl is just a 10-year-old gay. You can imagine the level of moral decadence of the girl and every other person involved. How, and where were the parents of these children in all of this? Where is the school in all of this? Because the entire act, the entire action, they don't start at that Dubai, a sex thing or sex scenario. It's probably something that's been ongoing for years. And I understand that many of these elite schools, the teachers do not have, cannot correct the students because they are from very big and influential homes. And the school will not allow the teachers to correct them. So because they don't want to use their customer. When you are running an educational institution, you are not just in business, you are there to mend lives, you are there to train generations. So what is the duty of care of Prisland School in the Wraithing District? The same way we saw what happened at Doen College, what is the duty of care for this school that will not correct young people? That they will allow them to do whatever they want and the teachers are not in a position to correct them. So I'm happy that the legal government has shortened the school so that they can have a review of the fundamentals, their reasons, their motivation for setting that school up in the first place. And I think that maybe at the end of the day, the school will be better for it, the children will be better for it. And even the rest of the society will be better for it. The people that are busy sharing and sharing is a very terrible thing. I haven't watched it and I don't intend to watch it. But I think we should be less judgmental. We should look at solutions. Thank you. All right. So let's also look at the fact that when a technology driven period or age where you have technology, technology has taken over and you cannot also separate that from the fact that these kids need to learn. So what do we now do? So technology backed up with smartphones that has access to this children's hand. How do we now control all of this in the case of raising our children? It's extremely hard. It's extremely hard. The way you are raising your children in this age, you have to go the extra mile to make sure that you're not raising a children that will contribute more to the moral decadence of the society. You're not raising children that will give you heartache and probably make it harder for your time. You have to go the extra mile. And over time, their parents are controlled over phones, over devices. How many parents have been careful enough to even study this in order to apply it? We've had cases of children who are addicted to pornography, to pornographic sites. We've had cases of some of those cases that we've handled in the past is because they watch these things on their parents' phone. So what example are the parents setting for their children? We have young, impressionable children, persons around you and you are putting pornographic videos on your phone. You are putting biographic videos on your phone and these children can access it. So there has to be a level of control over the, I mean, very strict control over what they can view on their phones. And many, many children are even counting from who's day, the first place they're not supposed to be given phones because it's something that can end up being very destructive to their growth, to their personal growth, development and their morality. So at what age do we give food? Who allows children to hand food, not just basic food, smart food with all the features and devices, where they can accept very damaging sites. So parents have to have the control, parents have to, from time to time, look around for the children, the students or friends they give. We have to eavesdrop on their conversation. We have to keep talking to them. We have to just be there for our children. We just have to ensure that we continue monitoring them because we are in perillous times as we say. More than ever before, the internet has an overwhelming influence on all our lives and children are not left out. And the access to biographic sites, to violent sites is one of the fallout of this, the impact of the internet. And so children, parents have to have the control. And then they have to put their children in schools where they can learn and also be a good behavior. As long as schools say, they brought you up not just educationally, but did you qualify to certificate? How did you prove yourself to be qualified intellectually and not so morally? Which schools are we putting our children? Are we putting them because they are high-sounding schools, elite schools, so that when you tell people, our parents are doing that, your child is in Chrisland, your child is in Goen, your child is in British America, this everybody would clap for you. We should investigate schools. How are those schools run? They have some moral fabrics running in the streets, in the administration of those schools. Or they are just schools for spoiled brats, for spoiled kids. They just want their children to be there. So if you want the best for your children, you have to go all the way. You have to be involved in your lives. In the moral standards they keep. In the schools they go to. Everything about your children, you really have to be. You cannot be distanced. That's it, that's it. Because you are raised in the administration. And however those children turn out to be tomorrow, it will be, I mean, if you raise up children that are criminals, that are contributing to moral decadence in the society, you will be questioned. Just like the parents of these girls are being questioned as to their parental, to have parental upbringing. But let's just stay with them. Take more control and be more serious about them. You want their children to accept the friends they keep, the schools they go to. They have to be involved in their best life. Mrs. Batti Abbey, let's still stay with the issue of technology and the fact that children don't have access to smartphones. I mean, you have mentioned that prior to this time you have children who have access to their parents' phone and some of these devices would have some pornographic content. But it's gone way beyond that. Children now have a lot of children, I would not say all because that would be hasty generalization. A lot of children have access, you know, not all entirely, to smartphones. And you know how the OS of these phones have been run. These days you go online, things just pop up, things that you don't request for are already at your face. So that's on the one hand. And on the other hand as well, should we come to a point where we have developers, and this might not necessarily be for us as a country, because not that we are developing all of this, but should we get to a point where we say developers should begin to concede our creating phones or developing phones that would be children friendly, running from the OS with, you know, friendly apps and forbidden content for children. Because as long as you have a time that we're in, the children most times are expected to have assignment and what have you and there's always need for them to, you know, make reference to the internet. So what do you think in all of this? Should parents not give their children phone? Do you think that they're providing provisions for that? They're already provisions for that. I know that I've read a lot about the phones having devices. I don't have a child that is not able to use the phone yet, but I understand there are phones that have parental control that your child cannot access so many sites because you put a lock on them. And their sites, if they go to, you get a signal on your own phone. And even with access to TV, you put parental control and they cannot go beyond some stations or programs. So those provisions are already there. They actually are already there. It's just for the parents to make use of them. But then the fact is that parents, it's impossible for parents to be 100% in control, especially because children go to school and some of the children come to school with smart phones. Some of their parents are actually very careless, reckless, I must say, and they are no fat. And so they cannot put a view on their friends home. So there's actually a limit to that control. And in that aspect, to say, as a parent, you have to set the right standard in your home. You have to be an example to your children. If you watch those things, your children will automatically watch them at your back. And if you don't live as a man, if you bring a woman, you know, someone bring women to the house, in the presence of your children, you are setting a very terrible precedence for those children. They are going to live that way. They're going to believe that that is not man. That is a way of life. And so we parents just have to try the most that they can. And then the parents, apart from putting strict control on phones, make sure their children go to clubs where they are mentored, where they are given orientation about how to live a positive life, about how to live a productive, driven life. Children's camps, clubs, I always say that I'm a product of the Sunday School Club from the Metal District where I grew up. And those demoral standards that were instituted, demoral standards that were talked to, of course, everywhere I go in the world, I hold those standards very dear to my heart. They define my life principle. And so when children are ingrained from a very young age with those principles, it's extremely, extremely hard for them to deviate from me. So as parents, we have to do all we can, expose children to teachings that will improve their lives, that will enrich their lives, take them to children's camps, take them to mentoring program, and it will, it will bring about a whole lot of change in their lives, apart from ensuring that we have control of their phones, and ensure that they have as less access to phones, smart phones, or TV programs that will corrupt your mind as much as possible. I've been in a school, I think sometime about 15, 16 years ago, I was in US, and I went to visit an Nigerian parent's home. I went to their children's home. I think I needed to make use of the computer. So I was using their children's computer. And there were a lot of telegraphic sites on that computer that they had opened. I was alarmed because they were just teenagers, 10 years, 12 years, and they had all these telegraphic phone sites open on their phone, on their computer. So I drew the attention of their mother. I said, look, I want your children are watching on the, on the, on the, on the site, they're exploring on their TV, on their computer. And she just showed, she just, she was so dismissive. I can't forget that. So I mean, and that was where children, so I wonder at this level, there'll be the early 20s, maybe late 20s now, or early mid-20s, I imagine the level of decadence that there will be at. All right. Right now, something had not happened along the way. So I think children and parents, like I said, have to be more involved. You try the best you can and leave the rest to go. They must be said that you have tried. All right, Betsy, let's talk more. You've talked about, you know, the parents getting more or better involved in the activities and, you know, all the contents, you know, that their children consume. Let's take it one step further. On whose book, on whose shoulder does it really stop? When we talk about the issue of, you know, sex education right now, because you will agree with me that what the children did, you know, is actually the act of immoral content. And we don't even know how they got there, how they were able to do or get to the point of, you know, recording all of that. But right now, don't you think that if these children were better educated on what to do, what not to do, you know, and how they should go about this thing. So if they approach that, don't you think we'll be having less problems in our society? But whose book does it really rest? Is it on the school, the teachers? Is it the parents, the mothers, the fathers? Because most times parents actually shy away, you know, when it comes to sex education. How do you reason all of that? Yes, I think that, first of all, it has to do with the parents because that's the first base for the child. So parents have a responsibility to give sex education to their children as early as four or five years in child-friendly and appropriate languages. So parents have the first fundamental responsibility and also teachers. Some schools shy away from sex education. And at the end of the day, it does not all go away for anyone. So and they have to do it in languages that are appropriate. But I'm not even sure that this has to do, this particular experiment has to do with sex education. It's about children that were let loose on their own to explore the world, the immoral world, safe to food. And there were no checks, what so ever. So and everything is boomeranging, the school is being scandalized, the parents of the children. But from the way you're coming, Matty, it's about children being let loose on their own. Parents wanting to earn a livelihood to make as much money as possible and not looking the way of your children and not offering advice and not offering any form of restraint because if you have money, a children can do anything. Look at what happened in Darwin. The children were so, I mean they were so big, they were controlling their teachers, were calling them by their first name, they were sending them on errands to withdraw money for them to do this because they got into a state that nobody could control them. So why did you send them to school if your children cannot be controlled? If you get the child and the school education, when they're trying to correct your children, why did you go there to send them out in the first place? So it's about lack of parental control, it's about the absence of parenting and that is what we are seeing in this case, especially the rich and influential parents not being present in the lives of their children. So sex education is important but in this particular case, I think the children have over exposure to sex education. I don't know how that is when you say that the children have over exposure to sex education or the children have decided to discover by themselves because I don't know if they are being taught about these things. We know the culture that we are part of, a culture where there is a taboo to say the word sex even in church and we can't even call parts of the body, the parts of the body. There are sensitive parts of the body even in educating our children, we don't tell them that this is part of the body so we begin to look for names to call them, that's because we don't want to sound unholy. Just like you have the ear, every other part of the body is part of the body. So it starts from there. But from your perspective, it sounds like we are actually relegating and shifting the responsibility to the school. We seem to be moving it now to the school that the school had failed at this, the school had failed at that. We understand that the school has a role to play. But let's even stay back with the home. In all of this, people say that this is just poor parenting and this is totally on the fact that parents have not had time in the chase of the rat race that we are all in, parents no longer have time and pay attention. For some elites, it's no longer business. People no longer check what's opening. Going on in their homes, accountability is no longer the system. So I would like you again to say this that is this really a case of the school's failure or is a failure from the home and parenting? No, actually I think we are on the same page on this. I actually said that it's a failure fundamentally, first of all, of the parents. It's the failure of parenting and this, the parents were not present in the lives of these children. I actually have worked with children since age 14 and all my life, my life is, my life actually revolves around the children and when you see children that are from homes that are, when they receive good training, whose parents are present in their lives? You will just know within thirteen minutes, twenty days, you already know that child's history by the, by the comportment, by the attitude you already know. So obviously when we see cases, it's first of all a failure of parenting. What happens is that most parents when they are not present in the lives of the children, when they are too busy to be present, to have any form of control because they're busy for spending money, they shift everything to the school and sometimes the school tries in their best way as much as possible to correct, to bring up the children, to mold them as much as possible and sometimes they succeed but in some cases the children are just completely out of control that the school have no control and they cannot help whatsoever and especially when the school also relegates its responsibility because in all of these the school also has a duty of care. The school, because children actually spend more time in school. So what, what do the school perceive to be their duty of care? How are they helping the children to grow? Whether the parents are present in their lives or not. So it's a two-way thing. The parents have a role and the school also have a role to play. But what we see in this particular case is there's an absolute or a near absolute failure on the parts of both parents. So they all have to fit up. Like I said, my position in all of these pandas is can we look for a position and what the legacy of me, the press statement they put out yesterday was just excellent. They are focused on finding solutions that social support for these children and that is where it starts. Yes, still talking about solutions. Let's talk about the ways forward right now. The deed has been done. These children have been exposed. The girl is in the middle of all of this and also the boys. What do we do for these children? How do we begin to maybe restructure their mind because somehow they no longer have their own privacy right now. And those boys who could actually go to the extent of recording such an immoral actor, how to begin to reform them and so that they actually would leave better life. They're just children and they have a long way to go in building and molding their lifestyle. So how do we help these children? Thank you very much. I think, like I said, I just mentioned earlier, the little state government has taken the right step by shutting down the school so that they can reappraise the entire situation. Even the fundamentals of the administration of the Chrisland School because of these standards, these historical standards that keep coming out from that school. Because I believe there's a major default, there's a major dysfunction in the administration of Chrisland School and the motive why they set up that school. They really have to reappraise it and maybe the legal state government will help them in that process. So I think first of all, we have to find a solution and the legal state government in the press statement by the domestic and seizure violence agency said they will provide psychosocial support for the children. Psychological, they'll have psychosocial sessions with the children. So because this children needs psychological support, they are minus whichever way you want to look at it. That's why this, when this girl stopped her husband and kept causing her husband in Kano, the business staff here also, the past year to 14 year old girl, I think that was her husband in Kano some years ago. She was treated as a minor. She was sentenced to how many years in prison and all of that. At the end of the day she was she wasn't convicted anymore. She was sent free. She was acquitted because she is a minor. So these are children that are in conflict with the law, engaging in that kind of horrible act and then also putting it out, videoing it and putting it out on social media. And I understand it even attracts 14 year imprisonment. But these are minors and we cannot apply the same rule to them. What they need is health, psychological help. So and I'm really happy that the legal state government has promised to provide that in the course of investigating this very horrible scenario that we found ourselves in. So first of all they need that psychological help. Their parents also need help. The parents of the girl need help because the contents are already out. Our name is out in the public domain and all of that. I guess our picture also and so and it's not good. It's extremely damaging. So they need help and they need all the quarantine advice that they can get. And then the school needs us to sit up. I'm sure they will because I keep wondering who are the advisors of chrisland school? Who are the advisors of chrisland school? How can you ship your a baby, a two-year-old kid in your school come up to say she had been sexually molested by this man over a period of time and she kept maintaining it even when she got to age four. And then you kept threatening her mother. You kept intimidating her mother. And he went all the way to hire a senior advocate of Nigeria to defend the video filing court. What kind of school are you? What kind of educational institution are you running? What is your duty of care to these children? And I just heard yesterday another terrible news. One of the students of chrisland school impregnated a girl in that school her and his mates. And when they had an emergency meeting the owner, the head of the school told them I'm really happy that this does not involve one of my teachers. And so let you push go and suffer yourself. Can you imagine that? So what is your duty of care? I keep emphasizing it's not beautiful. Chrisland school should be investigated. Chrisland school should be put on the right path because right now the mountains it's actually shaky. It's actually faulty. All right thank you so much indeed that the Lagos state government is doing all the investigations so we can get to the root cause and you know if there are sanctions you know to be meted out to whoever or to whatever it should be done. And of course the children who are the centre of this all we need to ensure that they are safe and of course they are you know rehabilitated. Once again we must say a very big thank you to you Betty Abash. She is the founder, executive director Seahope Nigeria. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us today. Thank you so much for participating. Bye. All right it's still the Breakfast on Plus TV Africa. We're staying on social issues on the show today. We'll take a quick break when we return. We'll be looking at the role churches can play in the wake of all of those domestic violence that is plaguing our society in a moment to join us again.