 All right, welcome in to the live edition of the cathode ray podcast and I'm here with my friend Zez and hopefully Hopefully we're getting all our Stuff put together where we're correctly having sound and Everything my audio wasn't working Steve only just that was our delay like every good show must have a delay when it starts Because Steve couldn't get my audio through but you did it you you went deep into the cables off-screen Well, I think shaking it looked like it was a lot of work Yeah, yeah, so Belmont. I see you're there if you let me know if you can hear Louis. That would be great I'm just worried about Louis because otherwise. It's just So yeah, we're we're coming to you live today and we have a couple of things Going on first off. We're coming off the almost one week of our wonderful podcast with The legend John Lineman. Thank you again, John for coming on and having a great discussion with us about CRT stuff So if you haven't caught that yet, go check it out on the Zez retro channel All you got to do is click on Zez's name right there and it'll take you right over to it I guess if you are watching what question or what top question or topic should have we Specifically have talked to John Lineman about like if you could say like a good one. What's the next topic? What would you love and particularly us? What would you like us to talk to John Lineman about next time? So when we get him back, oh Man, yeah, that's a great great question now before we get into that Thank you get everybody for being here and I can already see that we have our first super chat Louis It's awesome from Owl Eero alero alero. I think one of the other two ways. Thank you for the super chat and So, yeah, let's uh Let's start off here. We'll we'll get into the question here for a second and but yeah This is my sound. Do you like apparently I should go up a little bit turns this up. Okay? Let's turn this up. Let's see. There's up a little bit. Okay, then Hopefully that'll help anybody turn it up a little bit. Yeah, that's a little done I just turned it up. Okay, you're the best. Okay. Let me You know, it's not bad if I asked it I think Steve Nooter is the best the The best CRT repairman in the United States of America at the moment or is there somebody that you learn to look up to? Definitely a rare skill as in pointed out. Well, I personally will Probably never well, I don't know. I mean, maybe they're become a day where I will admit That I'm the best but I doubt it. I don't know. I'm just what I would what I will tell you is there was 100% Multiple people that I look up to that I've learned from that I still talk to That are legends that know so much more about CRTs than I do and not just Even people like myself who are working on things now. There are people that work on CRTs that we've talked to on this show and they they are very talented and I laugh that there are certain things that Andy King and Keith Rainey both of them That they know better than I do at this point. So It's just it's wild to think that There actually are some people. I mean, I said that we're not a large group But there are some people That's what I was about to say. I was about to jump into the man here But this is all going back to the man the myth the legend Mr. Save on Pat and Yeah, save on Pat he I mean we would none of us would Have the CRTs around and especially professional ones wouldn't be anything without Save on Pat. I mean, there's a guy who worked with Sony for his entire career in that specific field Right there. So he he's he'll always be the goat, you know the Tom Brady the Whoever I don't know who's on the who's like who's like an international goat I mean, are we talking about like messy, you know, we know you're Tom Brady look And we get the reference Michael Jordan. Yeah, Michael Jordan. We've referenced MJ and it's like so. Yeah, right So he's the guy. He's that so yeah, I think I also bought you're like He's not only is he the best but more like he's got almost his godfather image He was a OG back in the day working in the era on the front lines Doing exactly using a service manual exactly. It was as intended and Yeah, there's I had you've always had a huge respect for him and everyone does that he's really the guy and what he knows and To you know, how do we get that knowledge out of him as well? And you've done a lot of that in your chats and your conversations with him to sort of try and soak up that knowledge and You know pass it along absolutely and First off, thank you to Scott for the gigantic gigantic super chat man. Thank you so much Yeah, that's wonderful. Thank you target. I love it Yeah, thank you so much Scott really appreciate that and just to expand a little bit more on this on this save-on-pad thing because he deserves any credit and you know, he he's a guy who I Literally will call on the phone and He can almost answer any question. I have right off the top of his head about a complex issue I can't tell you how many times I've just sent him a message called him up and he is quick to help me out and Been just awesome. He's never been like He's never Questioned anything I've done. He's always been super friendly to me. I mean like He'll ask how my kids are doing how my move went things that I just wouldn't believe He would have the time really to even focus on or worry about because I know that he's doing this mostly on the side and I mean, it's but he's he's meant he's getting to his mid 90s and That's that's really the case where I Think that if I can be fortunate enough to stay in this field another 20 years and learn the kind of things that those guys did somehow and and Continue down this path then maybe at that point. Yes, I'll consider myself one of the best still alive, right? If I get that opportunity because right now I just consider myself Somebody's kind of getting warmed up. There's so much stuff. I'm still learning so much stuff You are the best crt content creator. I'll give you that one. All right Many other content creators, but wow what you've done over the time to communicate that knowledge just like Pat He's my concept. All right. I know it. Look. I'm making a bit of fun here. I respect say I read your pat Right, but he's he's my ideal situation. I Understand he you know can't travel You go to Cal. I'll meet you In California We have a proper sit-down with Pat like real nice seats Podcast room maybe it's somewhere nice like a real feature thing to show the respect for this person He's real old, but he still wants to talk to us and you and I have this long your discussion with Pat Dude, this would be more the piece to resist on so I could see a shot perfect looking like some fucking Netflix documentary Little fire in the background Yeah, I'm to the OG source of information we can We can bargain with I can bargain with the guys from my life and gaming and make them Make it actually look good Who better? Oh my goodness There's been so many things like I wanted this to happen so you don't understand like I wanted this to happen so bad before COVID kind of happened I was really hoping that I would have gotten an opportunity to go and Just imagine spending like a week even Hanging out in the shop when he's got like oh, yeah, I got a busy week coming up I mean like dude, I'll come down there and help you out for free and I you know, I'd love to just hang out and you know I couldn't imagine somebody not being like so into just wanting to find somebody that's younger I feel like when when you get a good mentorship with somebody and And I felt like this can go in all levels like we're always learning about different tech stuff and we're reaching out to the community It's just so awesome to be able to Like get I mean a real mentorship can become an official like Something that's irreplaceable, right? And if that's why I would say that would be the ultimate to be able to go spend a week with him Sure Have some nice time, but I add that I think the let's keep digging into that point my friend is Mentorship in our community, right that it is important as well Like you have benefited greatly because this man who didn't need to Really help you but he saw in you a love for his own passion and went Hey, I'm gonna help this guy and you were open to receive that from him and that's real nice, right? And so like I guess to try and think what are ways we can mentor in the open source of retro community, right? Like to consider ourselves like how can I give back? Yeah, you can code you can make a project But maybe here into something You know some young persons right into you with a bunch of questions Maybe there is a chance to help a little more and absolutely things like that happen But it's also sometimes good to consciously realize like yeah, maybe I am and that's a good thing, right? These help our bonds in our community Yeah That's absolutely true and all right, man. We have another great Super chat here. Thank you delusionals arcade. I've actually seen a bunch of your content man. You do some great stuff I've seen mostly arcade CRT projects you've worked on some really cool stuff Definitely has a good channel over that and you got some PVMs and that you're hesitant to work on them well, it's That's I mean, you know anybody you should be hesitant You know working on a CRT But I've found that in my experience over the years Actually, our arcade chassis tend to be more hazardous than most PVMs and BVMs Simply because they're not They're a little bit you could it's easier I feel like it's it's easy in both situations to shock yourself if you're not smart but I feel like if you know your way around a arcade chassis and That kind of a tube then you're in a much better position to work on a PVM any CRT experience leading up to a PVM Because the end of the day you're just adding more sophisticated hardware on top of that same process of you know video source Coming in in the same kind of high voltage Equipment where you've got With the idea that the arcade is like more dangerous right let's say yeah I think you're more likely to see some crazy old arcade bodged up set up like most PVMs They're straight up. They're real nice. They're straight up and down very very good Sony design and the way that but your arcade Oh, and then there's just like a flyback hanging off the end there and some live wires dangling on the inside There's absolutely they're more dangerous Absolutely the I Oh, yeah, well, that's that's another thing you're right. I was I didn't understand him originally He's worried about the high price the item. Yes. Oh my goodness. Yeah, all I can do is say Set your set your equipment try to get the temperatures low as it'll go to just melt the solder on anything you need to work on in a PVM and Try to take your time take as much time as possible because yeah That's what I try to do like my with my stuff best is to try to make sure I don't You know damage something But it's actually a good a good little thing here for since we're talking about arcade stuff real quickly I Though I actually did get to work on an arcade tube and it was when I got to the there are two restaurants that have arcade machines in my little college town here that I found and the first one actually I met the owner and he had an Mortal Kombat machine and he's like it doesn't turn on would you mind coming and looking to for me? And I so sure sure and it was the one I made a short on my video on my channel for like a six months ago And it's where the flyback is just arcing This bolt of lightning Across the side when you powered it on and that was what was happening inside this Anytime you click on the machine. He's like, yes See look what it does and he click it on it and right when I heard it I was like, oh turn it off because it was like And I'm like, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, turn it off. It's pushing out power like it's a palpitate install Oh, absolutely. There's a whole video where you can see that it looks like that in per palpate That's the best. That's the best comparison. That's the one right there. Good job says so this thing is going crazy and What it actually happened to it is I took the monitor out Brought it home It's the same style. It's just a smaller tube chassis than the one that I do have in my my arcade it was just a 19 inch version and The the flyback on it had a huge hole in the side of it where it just bolted this You know high voltage would just come in straight out the side and arcing against the shielding right there And causing a huge mess and so but but I was able to get a replacement flyback for that thing on the internet and I was able to get it Installed I cleaned the chassis. I went back and I tested it at my house and it worked and like so I sat there And I recalibrated everything Funny enough the tube had been used so many times in this chassis Like when when it was turned off you could see four different arcade games on it where it had been like it had been a Pac-Man tube and it had been Like a breakout tube where it was pills, you know at the top and then it was finally and then it was finally the Mortal Kombat tube and all those had burned into the tube screen. So it just looked nuts and I was like but the tubes had perfect color Perfect geometry everything was bright. Just had the burn in and so the tube home from the place I took the tube and the in the chassis the whole frame of the tube. I didn't take the rest of the machine. Yeah, okay, I Knew the tube was good and I was like so I got it all calibrated and again I had looked at the boards and it had been recapped Maybe I mean like with good new new shikans that were smaller all those caps read good So I was like it just needs the flyback Got that replaced it Now I you know, I went to this to the place installed it Tested it out works perfectly. It's on every day up there now. So I thought that that might lead to some better business There's this other place down the street from them that has arcades in their bed They're open more they have like oh We have 30 arcade machines, you know they're the doled coin-op machines and then you get in there and it's like heartbreak City because They have all been fully restored looking and they all have flat screens in them not a tube in one of them Yeah, except for the old Hydra thunders that are hanging on by a thread in the back corner It's like to Hydra thunders playing anyway. Yeah Yeah, yo the the question that came in chat about the flyback is a good. I wanted to ask about that flyback Yes, okay, so you're repairing this arcade monitor. You've identified through the force lightning that the Flyback is the problem. Are you where are you fine? It's just eBay. Is it a whole thing? No, no Arcade community for years has had just a really good solid Availability of at least some type of a replacement part Now that that's the real unfortunate thing is I think that maybe maybe it was like Three years ago or maybe more than that man. Maybe I like five or six years ago Bob announced on retro RGB that like the last factory that was making CRT tube replacements for fly back or for Arcade chassis's That it it was being shut down So we knew no more tubes of any real relevance We're being created unless unless it's for like government and we don't know about it, right? So There's Once that stops. Yeah, then it's like there's no more new tubes So that's really the only product though that stopped being manufactured the problem with the Flybacks is they're notorious for being like crappy dead on arrival so you pay like $50 and Then sometimes apparently they could come in you get a bad batch. They might only last 500 hours or something So these are all these last ones to come off. No, these ones. I think that are being remade now In one factory in China and you can go to like you can go to different arcade delusionals Probably knows I bet he uses them a lot. There's a vendors similar to like Mauser that just have certain parts Okay, okay, that would that starts to make more sense that okay. We know the Tube is not gonna be manufactured anytime soon But there are still other components that might actually sale and for sale and the Chinese guys will make a batch Just to see if someone buys them. Well, the tooling is still there, right? Hmm. And so it's like somebody still has an account set up where they order probably enough of them to keep the tooling running It's just will that run out one time? I hope to say no, but This was kind of my feeling about this guy's tube because I actually had a tube I could have swapped into it But it would have taken me taken apart a different CRT that was fine And at the same time I thought, you know when I played the game, it wasn't noticeable Immortal combat it just wasn't that noticeable in the environment and I thought I know what the burn in the burn in It was only really noticeable when everything was turned off Okay, and I said as long as the colors are super vibrant. The tube is super sharp It's running working perfectly at this point machine like this. I want to just keep using that tube And Like I want to say it's fine. Right, right for the part purpose of what it's doing. It's just up there and he said He said it's game quarters, right? Yeah, you have to pay. Yeah, he's not gonna pay He's a pain for a new tube. He's like, it's just the fucking old machine in the corner Yeah, happy that you pay for the flyback. Sure. Yes, but pay for a whole new tube. That's a lot more money Yeah, I didn't know what I was gonna charge I was like and I didn't even think I was like this really isn't gonna benefit from a new tube Big deal, right? Hmm It's like well You know, maybe it would have been good, but at the same time it wasn't Anybody who use that machine unless I Mean, I would think I would walk up to that machine. It's just one of those recedes like yeah It's got to burn, but damn it looks good. Like that's the good thing. That's like I was like wow It actually I plugged it up. It looked awesome I was super happy because like after I did change the flyback the calibration was awful So I was able to test it here get it calibrated using my mr. Cade and Then take it on up to the shop. Now. I wish there was like a big arcade here. Maybe I could do that Yeah, it's just it's not I could travel and do that stuff, but then right now I do have enough PVM and BVM work brought to me for the most part and other types of CRT you don't have to do it for the money, but it would be cool wouldn't it look Yeah, be awesome if that mission if that hole had all of CRTs and the guy was like, I need you to help Yeah, that's what I was hoping right. Yeah, I was like all this guy might have like 30 CRTs in his business then But now there was just the two types of thunders I wanted to go to the question from Alaro He's saying if a startup wanted to manufacture CRTs again, how big would their Kickstarter need to be? The problem You know, I think a majority of that and we could actually talk about this too a little bit because it's getting into some fun stuff I think a majority of that unfortunately would have to go towards your lobbying of Whatever country that you could convince to let you go in and start manufacturing new CRT tubes And then how are you going to get those shipped around the world? Just to give you a small example. I have I have quite a few Rare CRTs here that are kind of just in limbo waiting right now for someone that is in a Pacific country, I don't I'm not sure even which one but the problem is is since COVID You can't ship them into the country you have to have a special permit So he has to go get a special business permit that he's working on Yeah, because it's considered Literally if you go on the United States website, which all these countries have to do is go look at the United States website for the EPA and it lists this as Hazardous waste and then so how are you going to convince that guy to let you ship hazardous waste around? That's the biggest challenge. Here's and we look we touched on this before I think the best solution to this is going to become when it's super affordable to get the bendable Bendable flat screens You know because you can get one-edged bendable you if you could somebody make a four by three bendable CRT screen That's about 20 to 25 inches and then you manufacture a case around that that looks similar to the CRT And then it has Mike cheese Stuff in the middle of it and that's the best way to just remanufacture it eventually That's that's the future of what and then you'll have to scan lines and it won't be a real CRT It'll be a fake one, but but I don't see the the problem is is I just don't see Not only it took it took so long to perfect the art of making this one all those people We just talked about them are in their 90s or they're gone Right and knowledge is knowledge. He doesn't matter. It wasn't extracted. It's not there They didn't get get an opportunity to go on to YouTube and talk about their career You know like we're doing like we're trying to play catch up If somebody would have done what I'm doing if save on Pat would have had the ability to make videos when he was Going through what he did. There would have never been the need for me I've been out of business that info, but no one could make them again I think we have to on the flip side to this is that your Blade Runner Futuristic tale that he just told us about that the CRT is not really a CRT and it's just all it's just evil Mike cheese Somewhere upstairs looking down going. I made the thing it was a CRT Absolutely, that's a long way off. We are a long long Long way off before these CRTs become great. Yes, a lot of go into landfill We can watch a lot of pictures and get upset. It will be a it will not be in your lifetimes that they will run out Yeah, yeah Society's gonna break down your great Before we run out of CRT Yeah, well be concerned about your day-to-day passage in America, right? Yeah, the thing that I love about it, too is how how resilient this tech is So like this one here, which we haven't even mentioned yet. That's just been flashing like bad lights on every time the Right under Lewis's Right in Lewis's chest. I guess we'll say area lower lower abdomen We've got this lovely Olympus oevee 203, which is the one that Was from two bad shipped 20 inches and and this is an example of like That I feel like this is like one of those great Just I can't speak praises enough about like this particular PVM and as like a beginner PVM all the way to the one that like could satisfy you forever really if that's all You're really wanting Just their heartiness and like they last good like even though I've put this back together now with all these parts I still haven't restored it. It's just It's just been running for hours being rebuilt, but it still needs to be even restored but Just a great example of like I feel like people That like this can make it like this is this has a perfect characteristics of Performance wise like for an analog only CRT almost Dude, when you switched over to the monitor, I did not realize you switched over to the monitor Yeah, and I from discord. I can't see yeah, you can't see so I didn't know what We're just like the first couple minutes. I'm like, what is he going on about? How did he this segue? Yeah, I forgot you can't see what everybody else can see Yes, right in your crotch the TV so This is a good right now. I see you I got two channels here The delay one on the street. Yeah picking up and using the everdrive there But the the the sweet spot on this, you know, I'll talk about that more I think that's a good way maybe first to jump into like the only topic that I have listed here on the title screen and That was something I was thinking about and I'm glad we got the question about Manufacturing CRTs. Let's say you were Able to make a CRT like you had all the money in the world Sony was ready to Hand over the keys to the kingdom to to produce the thing What would be like your top characteristics to you think and this could be aesthetically Features like I was kind of trying to think of a list of things and then I feel like I've got a good follow-up point to that To kind of get a discussion going so if anybody in the chat is listening and wants to contribute you could definitely Type in what you would think Is something obvious but I just didn't know I think I feel like a lot of people have differences on what and this needs to be more personal like what's something that's like Top of the list and it might be easy if we start start like what do you think so Also, does it have to be like a real TV because also you can't know no I want it flat, but I want a perfect geometry Right also think about think about what where the technology was when CRTs went away I mean, yeah, they could have kept evolving who knows and that's right something into there's something interesting to think about What if the industry kept growing and they learn how to do like perfect flat would we want that perfect flat perfect geometry? You know or some something else they learn learn to bend the glass in a just a different way And we lose that lost our minds and went oh my god, you know, we wouldn't know Well, so so here's be a realist like yeah, exactly. So that's yeah Let me expand like this a little bit. It needs to be something that is like currently doable by a CRT and it could be like anything so like for Whatever purposes, you know, whatever like what feature of Like your CRTs in your collection, what is like the go-to feature like you're like, oh, this makes this my favorite CRT is it because Like the tube is perfect in like or is there a certain size aspect ratio that you think It's perfect for you or is it like For performance-wise does it need to Support certain resolutions like I just was kind of want to go through and build a list of like if they were asking like What's important to the retro gaming community? And in like reproduction of a CRT We're not at the point where we can make it may be like Futuristically better yet, but what about like the old CRTs that we love would need to be in the new To make a new CRT really successful like Does that really help? Okay, sure, but then also let's say broadly some generations of CRTs and how the technology evolved So, okay, when I look at my late model Sony Trinitron, it's very flat. It's square. It's flat That's what Sony. Yeah, the over time geometry gets bad But you know, Sony really just died just brute-forced it and just did the amazing geometry to make that shit work Or do I want more curved late 80s early 90s curved the edges am I going for that style? This is where I could say I couldn't pick between those two. I want both Yeah, it's a red screen Trinitron. I want the curved early ones I want that we look at the LG net hair thing that I've got right Well, Keith's chimed in Keith Rainey's here He's KH MR3 3 has to be multi-format up to 1080 I and have Individual calibration sets for each input and resolution. Yes, that would be ideal To have the input have each calibration setting. Yes, that would be awesome. So, yeah, that's kind of like what I'm thinking I'm thinking like if Obviously, there's always the taste and I think that wait we were getting like dogged on Twitter by somebody for if we're showing too much love to the Trinitron And You know this is like so silly it's like we love You know all types of CRTs. That's really the most like silly thing to say I feel like to anybody that are like to us is that we don't actually know we love them all and especially different types and That's what I was saying like somebody I think there would be Almost a need for a category where you'd have people that you're gonna have three categories On there for the shape of just the tube, right? You're gonna have the classic shadow mask With the curvature on all edges Nice, that's what the aperture grill like we have here that Sony had patent to and then You can move even beyond that and say flat if you're that crazy To want to flat Let's talk about format because I'll admit I my BVM is only 15 kilohertz and it is a bit of a bummer as I know I think this is definitely like what to say. This is like rich person problems not rich You know well off first world problems is the word. I'm looking for just to complain that my BVM doesn't have multi-format So fine, but I guess I would love a multi-format. You know multi-format would make it in there. Yeah, I think about 20 inch I really like the 20 inch. What's what's screen size? Where would you sit if I could say Steve one one's all you got, mate, right, right? Okay size What size yeah, you know, I would like ideally the this is this is a funny thing to actually see I love Sony's I Love them and I've said that before but I think they look I've looked at so many and the vast majority of them not all of them But lots of them do not look good over 20 inches. They just don't as far as for geometry but I have seen some amazing like Shadow mass tubes that look incredible up to that 25 26 almost 27 inch size so A perfect example to me the one of the yeah Well, I was gonna say huge ones at the music. Yeah Those and that's that's what I'm kind of talking about. I think like the best close thing we're getting is Isn't a Sony. It's actually the NECs and There might even be some Mitsubishi's in there and those are the shadow mass that are up to like the 27 29 Xms they can do 480p and So you get a little bit more of their bigger screen. They have a remote control and To me that's the one that's like the one that I've never gotten personally I did do a long video series two or three years ago about it and It was a lot of fun to service, but I Think that you're right if you're just using it for yourself Most of the time 20 inches is perfect because getting over 20 inches It becomes more of a difficult thing on your space. It really I mean, I'm not I never You know, you can't underestimate that if you if you have the space Even 20 inches sometimes is too much for some spaces and that's what I feel like 13 is even great Yeah, so the only real reason you want bigger is if you were in a bigger Space with a longer space between your viewing distance really I think that would make the most sense I Think that you brought up the good point though. I feel like 240p to 480i is going to be Would be universally thought of as like something people really want Like as a top thing, right? Hey, there's a great point here from Belmont Like he was saying well, why can't they put the 240p test suite built into the TV? Maybe maybe that's too much. Can you at least give us the grid pattern for fuck's sake like give us a Pattern anything anything at all would like you could really do a lot of heavy lifting with just the grid Yeah Yeah, you can or just leave in the one Keith's Single monoscope pattern if you're that lucky. That's that pattern I mean, I don't give Keith enough credit publicly. I should give him more cuz he that really Changed the game for my ability to address a lot of things That was difficult to do before Just No, the The monoscope pattern the monoscope Yeah, so what we work me through that because we just pull it like what pattern what why does one? You know even so amazing even before we we're always fortunate I mean the 240 pet test. Oh the 240p test suite is Of course many us of us connoisseurs. It's our favorite game, right? Because we get to play at the most So I do have like the brightness and contrast turned down a bit here So if the colors don't exactly look right, that's mostly why but this is one of the This one's on the Sega Genesis So this is Keith's pattern the monoscope pattern And I hope that's showing up good on this screen So prior to this we pretty much just had It's a good example because this one has not been adjusted. So there's gonna be a lot of bad things probably on the screen But it's gonna be top on the YouTube Yeah, it's not it's not gonna be easy to see but this is the actual pattern I'm talking about and it's just the idea here is that you have so many different things in this That are actually designed to check and show you a lot of things at once Where before you were switching between screens to try to do a similar thing the biggest and most Helpful thing on this screen has been the way that Keith has the stuff set for checking aspect ratio specifically that is super helpful Wasn't just wasn't really easy before so now you have that well I can turn that down and that'll show so now you have just as a good example You have the red squares that you could see on screen. I don't know if Lewis will be able to see it But if you're at home, you can at least See the red screens So right if these if this is a square here and a square out here then the aspect ratio is correct For like the Genesis setting. So that's that's really helpful there Squares right make sense. Just give us and if you look at the whole thing in whole You know the same way is like all these should be squares. They should be the same size So you could take any measuring device. I'd like to use something that's bendable and not gonna scratch your screen So it's a really good example because this is something technically you could do with a grid pattern But it's way easier to see in this format Yeah, well, it's like a single screen like you say if this was the one that popped up just with right like nothing Yeah Yeah, so that's yeah, yeah, so back to the chat delusional was asking if I'm attending retro world expo again this year Missed you last year your friends with the founders. I actually met them this last year. Yeah, that's cool I I mean I probably will You know, you never know what's gonna happen anymore. I found out with health stuff, but I'd like to go back I feel like it's Kind of become and this was another thing that was popping in my head recently Lewis Well it like what What if there was a big, you know, I want to get like I like the conventions that I could go to that Obviously have more people that I know at them and I think it's more fun and that's what makes retro world So fun was the fact that all these people were there that I don't know exactly If and I doubt I can't I tend to feel like Bob is kind of like on the idea of doing this almost every other year Like having an official Kind of meet-up. I'm not exactly sure So I mean it's it's gonna depend a lot on whether he wants to do What he did again Because if he does I'll be a hundred percent there. I mean, I love going to that event and like I had an absolute blast talking to people. I mean I was horse You know two days after that because I I you know anytime you get again somebody just wants to come and talk about Whatever it might be when I had people bringing up all kinds of stuff. I met a guy who worked for years for The one we always talk about B&O Okay, he worked for the u.s. There was a u.s. Vert like a u.s. Department and They they sent like three years. They sent B&O CRTs to the United States and he still had one he said but they all got basically recalled Because they had such bad capacitors They started failing within like two years of being manufactured and they were so expensive that they were held up to you know a high standard and so he said all of them like they only made it like I think like 15,000 made it over 50,000 or something low and he's like I still have one, but I need you to recap it. I Never heard from him But he's in New York. So yeah, there was a chance. I mean so many great people so many great people from the show like surprisingly that came up so what I I think on Conferences like because it's your original kind of point was how often can we get together and how reasonable it is? And I'm thinking about what Bob had talked about a couple weeks right on the roundup about Because it's all of this balance between how much is it costing you and how much do I I guess get out of it? Or how much do I want to go? So if it's if you can drive there and the petrol's not too much and the time's not like it's time is Being dropped into it, which could be time not working time. It's all important The transport to get there as well So how much your sum cost to get there is will affect your motivation? And then it depends on whether you like well, it's gonna cost a lot of money But then hey the whole crew is gonna be there and I'm gonna do some networking and it's gonna be really useful for me Then you start thinking like I guess I will pay that larger amount to go But it's always and that's hard to find that balance for like everybody because you at least maybe you can drive there Right lie takes a bar accommodation This is this is a great thing to have us PA You could take a note on this and we'll follow up on this Lewis if we want to but I can I have not done I'm sorry. I'm a bit of a procrastinator, but I've not finished my tax return yet so I do not know the Cost of that trip yet like the receipts are there I haven't added them up yet But I will be able to follow up and it lets everybody know how much I spent on that trip because I did not stay at the hotel I stayed at Airbnb and The reason I can make it work where most people cannot is I it gives me an opportunity to you like last year I was able to sell to CRT's at the show. I was able to go pick up and drop off CRT's That were being serviced right Whereas a lot of people would Like I you know like laser bear Greg was there Well, he had to go and bring everything by car from Nebraska Which again is more than the 900 miles I traveled on this trip Like and he had to bring two employees. There's his family, but he had two employees set up a booth Sell things at the booth and be at the booth doing all that stuff the whole time didn't get to have as much friend And he's like man, I did all this work and like the business broke even I probably could have just made the same amount of revenue Leaving everybody back at the office doing what they're normally doing. He's like if I come back It's just gonna be as a social thing. So the thing is is like you got either have an established way to get there Where you're like expecting to pay that money and it just be Again, it's a Marketing experience for your business is what you call it. I mean, that's where I'll be And that's the top part of my any marketing is trying to work out your return Try to work out what what did I get for my money? What did I do and how to judge that based off a conference? That's I'd let the deal you're doing and again your situation is cheap is easier because you're not bringing a million laser bear things You've got like two monitors. Well, I mean is my goods to like Higher-priced items. So boom sale sale and then I've done Yeah trading for the weekend where laser bears got a turnover You know, his business is turning over small things and he had to pay for a booth and like I was just basically piggybacking He was like, I was in like the retro RGB free booth and then I set up my PVMs with like a price tag on them and then I was excelling power from laser bear. I was like, he's like He's like looking at the voltage in the water and I'm like, don't worry man. This won't this won't impact your printers He's like, I'm only allowed so many amps an hour And I was like, oh, I'll pay I'll pay you back. But no, I mean like that's what it wasn't everything was down To like that's it's costing your money. So Oh, and we had a talk about I think we've talked about this already that at the conference Like everything costs more power costs more everything more like they they screw in you for every little thing You could possibly want every little thing. Yeah, and it's That was an interesting one delusional said I could stay with him I might actually do that because the place I stayed at the Airbnb was was super dodgy Oh, yeah, I wanted to go ahead. Oh Yeah, you're a B&B man. Oh, yeah. Oh down the street Did you have to take a taxi? Okay, so so there's a cost. No, no, no, no, no, I That's what it will do. It's like so since I rented a van I rented a van because I had all those CRTs to move so the van was rented and That was not paid by me because I was moving the CRTs for the people. So that was the deals they paid for the van That that was good, so I was able to rent the van I didn't have to worry about a car But what I did is I drove the van there and I and I I Got to my Airbnb and boy it was like right behind like a sketchy all-night gas station that had Duncan donut signs, you know and people running in and out all times a night and it was a building and Covered in in a gate like the building was covered in a gate Except for the front of the building the backs sides of it like the doors and then there was a main door to like get in through the code a couple code doors to get through and So I got there and I just dropped my stuff off when I pulled up there I was like God, this looks dodgy and it's like the first floor apartment corner apartment in this building and I mean there's nothing but empty parking lots like around it and it's just Five or six. I mean I would say it's a half a mile to a mile from the actual Convention Center downtown. It's in the downtown area But I've never been in a Hartford and Boy, man, you know, don't take long to get into something that doesn't look very safe It's funny. You you put people put up these bars around the buildings and it doesn't make you feel really safe for seeing But anyway, I'm in there and I Go and I get and I start getting ubers to the to hang out with everybody at the hotel bar And the first uber driver I got He said he picked me up at the building front He said, hey, man, you live in that building Like that. I said no Why should should I be concerned about? Yeah He's like, ah, I don't know man It's like, well, what do you mean? And he said Well, I used to live in that building which was the building behind this building across one street And this is his literal words until they robbed the shit out of me And I was just like Okay, I've never had an uber driver say that to me before when I'm dropping off in my Airbnb So naturally from that So and then he was see, you know how it goes It's like the old cabbie thing, right? You either get somebody who talks your ear off when you get into a Uber cab like that or somebody who just never says anything This was the only guy this was the first uber driver the guy who talked more than it all the other uber drivers combined He had a hundred stories who knows how much of them were bullshit, but like On and on and on I mean, I can't believe how much this guy talked for a five-minute uber ride and That was the first guy so the whole time I'm like damn I got this van filled with like 10 grand worth of badass CRTs. I sure hope This guy get d20 d24. I Sure, hope nobody gets crazy thinks they're gonna be running down the in the ghetto with the out of a van with a 500-pound BVM trying to drop it down the street, you know and So anyway, that was the first night and then I was left unsecured down there Yeah, well the van was not fenced in so but anyway, I'd like I'd remember I would be like I would be drinking and then I'd be like shit. It's getting to be that hour Shit where I have to go hit go on the uber and go back to this place It's what my feeling was every night, right? Right and then like you so you don't want to get too drunk cuz you're like dad gum I don't know what could happen. So I was gonna jump me in the ghetto, right? And so that's like so that's what I'm doing. I'm like yeah, dude. Don't slow down too much Just do like the coolest rolling stop. I'm gonna like Roll out of the car and jump straight in the door I got the key ready, and I'm like, you know, just trying to get inside and lock the doors behind me as quick as possible and Every night every night I was worried about it and then I'd be like, oh damn did I lock all the doors? Did I lock all the doors when I left did I lock all the windows and Another funny one more funny little thing from that is it would had a old twit old tub in it with a shower. I mean super old tub, you know cast iron and Had a curtain that would go like all the way around it and There was this little window that would prop open like this far right beside it, right and I'm sitting there taking a shower one morning and Like right outside this window, which is like the windows right next to the shower inside It's like there's the street corner Like literally Five feet from me is like stop sign if in actual distance from being standing there in a shower Well, the windows guys stay open for the storage steam to come out all of a sudden some dude Pulls up in a car real quick and some other dudes on the corner there talk about buying something like slinging something and and I'm like Make it sure the damn bathroom curtain. I'm like don't blow open. Don't let them realize. I mean you're taking a shower And I really was like how do I give this person a good review on Yeah, dude, they and if you got caught they would totally think you're the cops like Oh actually in a van white guy hiding behind a shower. No, like you're going down. We found the cops Yeah, yeah on the plant. I was like, man So next time I'd probably pay the extra to just stay in a hotel, but I'll be honest with you. I I Hate I don't like hotels as much It's just like the hotel I compared to staying in somebody else's Like apartment or something if I can rent it if I have to be there for like three days I think I was there three nights or something But I was thinking about with with conferences. I was thinking about that line Where like because you guys all and if I was to go as well, you'd pay to go to that thing, right? Yeah, and there's it's some level where you become so popular that You get paid to go because yourself and the balance is when somebody sees your name there and thinks I'll go because like if someone's buying a ticket because of you or it's a at least a major factor in the morning to come then that's when the Event should be paying the artist because it's the artist's name that has brought them income more than just Oh, there's a band or whatever. I'm gonna I'm gonna see that band Oh, I'm coming because that guy is speaking and it there's a it's a festival. There's a lot going on But it has broadly affected my decision to go That's when people get paid and that's the I mean at least that's how it is in like entertainment industry I don't know if conferences should be any different, but it's a real tough measure to say like it's tough Unfortunately, and you can make that if the money doesn't work out for you Then that's unfortunate and you need to make your own financial decision whether you go to that conference or not But unless you're attracting people then I think the venue doesn't have a Responsibility to pay you now if there's some way if they want to help you or but like right right This is this is like this is a good thing to talk about because I'm at the level where I'm not I'm not getting paid generally by anybody to come to a convention now I Can in turn if you know I Could get things that would normally cost money that you might say well Where do you want certain things? So for example like I've been going to the event in Nashville for a few years And it's good to be point like the last show there were quite a few people that came that were like they're specifically for my thing I think that and my show last year was awesome like I got in and I started flipping around the yoke in the middle of it and like I had this one that was falling apart and I was just messing with it a lot and people loved it and So I'm thinking like you know over time that'll build up where people are specifically coming just to see that But that's my like a grassroots thing of me building, but I you know each year. I'm like hey I I'll talk to the owner. Hey, can I get room comped for me? of course and Then I might get But but the good thing about this one is is my parents house is like 20 minutes from this place So I just go there and stay in their live-in quarters, which is nice. So like I'm not gonna go there Right just learn familiar place. Steve wants a familiar right. I could sleep better and Go now I have to worry about like what happens when I'm going to the bathroom Yeah, so if you put you know, so I go there I stay there But I'll work deals. I'm like hey I would like a table somewhere that says all this stuff and I'm like I don't want it in the corner Over here. I wanted to be more in the area where all the CRTs are and Like that's what I'll work with that. I'll do There'll be you know, they like the place will still take care of me like give me like that place will take care of me Give me like food and snacks all day. They'll have a lounge That's like for all the people and it's got a services table. It's nice It's not nice. So if they treat you well, there's at least some food Right, maybe there's a drink for you to have so hospitality counts for a lot as well Exactly, it's all this balance. How motivated am I really to go where they treat me? Well, they make sure I'm looked after they feel I'm respected. They you know, I feel like I get a good chance They showed me the respect of like setting up the technicals in my room and everything's I got a good stage manager Hey, that's that's another big thing over the last three years I've been working with the same guy and he's a young guy and he's like always really He's he's like man. I've actually the first time I met him. He's like I've been following you for a while Man, your stuff's awesome. He works. He's he's probably 10 years younger than me. So it's mid 20s late 20s he's been working for a local news station there as like their video production people and so I Have such a good relationship with him now, you know He like every year the the staging will get more and more impressive and I I talked to him about what I need Because what I need special like usually it's just some dude sit on a couch You know chatting like which is cool, but or a podcast style setting But I'm like I want to do a freakin awesome CRT show Which will be on YouTube soon because he started publishing last year's stuff But it's got multiple cameras set up I mean, you know really nice lighting that I was able to go around with him before my show and get everything set up We got the right microphone like for portability to use That I was comfortable with and he's like helping me use it all and we were able to basically check everything out so this the presentation runs perfect and He always does a great job recording it. So it's like it's That's another great thing like that's valuable to get put in right that's a pretty valuable cake come along If you do a good thing will our pro guy Yeah, and I'll be able to like I'll be able to get a copy of that and just because I know that like He'll put it on his channel, but I'll put it on my channel too. Just because even it's the same thing I made it and it's yeah, it's valuable. He gets some publicity from it and I get some publicity from it too and some good stuff will be documented, but I think that That the the hard thing is is like the idea of having to spend like years building that kind of a rapport up Just to be able to get some compensation almost back for to where because at the end of the day That trip still cost me a ton of time Which I can't be working and making money and then I'm usually But again, I can make things up like sell a monitor or something at the show Where It's harder for people that maybe don't do that kind of thing like what's their way to get the compensation, right? Like yeah, I don't know man. It's it's at the promoters like show and the show promoters don't have I don't believe they have probably enough money You know, they're not charging enough and it's like it's a justification thing, right? If you can draw tickets and and show that somehow you legitimately are Then worth some kind of monetary amount Now at some point you're like well you draw in 30 people or you draw in like 15 people or something for a conference That's awesome, but at the same time That's not really enough to almost Justify so you've got a justified to the owner paying you a portion of that But if you're somebody who can attract a hundred people to an event or God bless a thousand, right? Then you are on the level where you would have I feel a real legitimate call to bring in some money Like look here if I turn up. This is what we usually expect This is we know this will contribute about this to your bottom line or so forth To go the complete other way with a festival. We could say that a festival or an event. Hey Wendy's. Thank you very much for the Oh, yeah, awesome. I get into my spiel here. Yeah, should we go do you want to? The 1720 Go ahead 1720 1702 okay. Yeah, go for it Tap song comes on back any common issues with this symptom. Yeah, I've done some videos on the common or 1702 and 01 and There is a good The shot I think that there might even be console 5 has a cap kit for it, but I would something like that happens I would definitely think To check a cold solder joint The monitor is pushing almost 35 plus years to 40 years old at this point and A lot of times the capacitors will stay good, but that solder from that era Definitely Can be bad. So I would recommend opening it up and just inspecting the boards especially that neck board to see if any of the solder at all looks dodgy and if you're on Twitter and you do that tag us and we'll Let you know we think of your photo How about that? Conferences, yes You're what your example the conference was only out for money, which is fine. That's a business model, right? There can be other conferences that say look You're a nobody, but it's in our best interest to have some compensation or something to help like hey I as a conference I also really want Steve to come not because he's necessarily big name But if I have many people like Steve so what can I do? Maybe I will give some money back to make sure hey Here's the transport money or it's not it's we're not calling some payment We're saying we can give you I don't know 200 bucks towards expenses or something and they allocate that as part of their Expenses because they know well if we can just help these guys come This makes us a better conference and makes everything better. So yes, sometimes star power is a pulling thing You can demonstrate sometimes. It's just it could be smart to work with the community Help those people who will be providing the content of your event And yes, you still have to make a profit at the end as well So you can't just give it all back to you guys. Yeah Right as well, but well here's do within that budget to help as much as possible The the I think that we're getting on to a great idea possibly for a solution here and this would be some kind of community minded and almost Organized event and this was just like I'm not gonna lie. This is one of the ideas that's been in my head the last couple weeks What if I could organize an event around here? I know enough of the people in personally where I'm like There's something could be worked out like that where it's like hey every person I'll keep going every person that comes to the show that says I'm here to see somebody is That ticket sale then translate to a commission of that person or it could all be split out where all the creators and people who are actually working Would get a share of the profits kind of a thing where you know Like but I would think I would want it to be something to where you'd get valuable information It would be so awesome to be able to have an event where you know, you could have I mean like Voltar they're teaching a mods class or something live for an hour, right or Just some some even higher level stuff than we're already doing I feel like some of the bit like imagine if we could get the most passionate people in this to come together for like one event once a year And even go beyond what we're doing now like a specific event made for us by us and that We are the ones That are paying out to the creators I feel like that would be a real recipe for success as far as some kind of ground roots community Awesome event, right? I think also though in the beginning. It's very good And I think it's nice that you speak about profits Well, that's one that's that's the thing there is no that's that's the reason like most of them are run by companies Or smaller individuals who are local who a lot of times do this because of other businesses Or it's a huge passion for them to be able to put on this kind of event because there's not there's not the level of money however However, I feel like that's why you have to make it so unique Like you're not gonna get this presentation in person anywhere else in the country this year Right like this person's the people that we're talking about are people that are normally Kind of pushed aside But maybe they have a great class that they can offer That is just I feel like there's a lot of ability. You know what I mean like sure Because most of it is usually in for a broader It's fine. Who knows maybe it's the game collecting guys or something like game collected people are like coding stuff people who are Working behind the scenes on things anybody who really wants to talk about something That that it's interested in something. I don't know I mean, I just feel like anybody who's who feels like they want to go and pursue that side of things Almost in a community hosting effort, I mean it'd be something like again Similarly like how people are able to go in and contribute to Bob's website or retro RGB. I'm sorry You know anybody can go on and become a writer for that and and similar to being able to like curate an area for people to go would be nice because I feel like that's the thing is like Like Bob should be able to go. There's a lot of people that would go to event Bob should be able to go to an event and be able to At least be compensated for The cost of things he's he seems to be to be there so I know some people behind the scenes I feel like are getting some stuff and then I Just don't hear anybody talking about it They tell it right they don't want to talk about it if they're getting it because it's almost like well Unless you maybe ask it. I don't know sure so maybe there's any a individual I think the tough part is risk That if we want to say to our artists and creators that we guarantee you X amount So you have firm clarity you can book your things and you know, we're gonna give you 200 bucks 500 bucks I don't know whatever it is, right? Someone somewhere has to take risk. Yeah, it's gonna be too big of a risk like that tickets and that's the tough part Right. Yes, we want to give our creators that stability absolutely But then the problem is that creates wild instability for the promoter Because they are except they accept all the risk in that situation Well, and I think that that the only way to make me make a solution to that is have this be more of a group kind of an venture where Where you get, you know, like that's what I'm saying Like I would have to almost act as the promoter on behalf of like the group or somebody would have to do it Almost like that because somebody's going around like organizing the event Finding out how many tickets need to be sold to make that much money And I feel like the only way that they'll be successful is if look It's only gonna be this portion of the gate up to this amount Which will be like a maximum amount of tickets that you'd sell in a dream scenario, right? And it's like up to that it's just gonna come down how many tickets are sold because the exact same thing it can happen That has happened before where people make big promises about some some live event and put these huge amounts of money Promises to internet celebrities to show up or something and then don't pay or something you don't want to have that That's a disaster But you're always gonna have somebody it's gonna be stuck fronting thousands and thousands of dollars At the beginning of this and they're the ones like you said taking the risk that it would be even profitable at all as opposed to an event that just ends up Getting crickets somehow even though you think everything's gonna go right. It still can happen and That's yeah, that would be a big deal I think that there's good idea See I think that there's people from the fight game community that you could put together a good Somebody make a donation for a big pool, you know for Like a tournament It's just we are geographically apart from one. Yeah, and we feel the ultimate problem We feel close, but we're not actually close if we were all within I don't know four to five whatever Maybe 15 if it's an American timeline, whatever. Let's say five right if we're all within dribble distance There is some sort of agreement. Yeah, that we could really make something work. We'll get together There's gonna be a creative space and we're gonna have some talks from you know Bob's gonna tell something then Volta's gonna show us something sure I think there is some feeling that people would donate their time and They're their effort to make something like that I think the distance means travel time and it means travel expense and I think that's what kills so many of these ideas because just to add Someone's got to pay for that air ticket if the conference doesn't well then the speaker does someone's pan and All of a sudden this adds up without the that cost or that was much lower than I really think and that's tough, right? so then how to How do we get my goodness random thing that happens at some time how to find the right right well and this I I I've had I've had other situations in past work experiences That can give people a little bit of an idea But it's never it's never a good solution like the guy had a company that When I worked as an insurance agent they if you made a Had a good year. They would send you an invite to some kind of awards Ceremony and it would be somewhere within the United States It'd be scheduled The problem was is the same thing you're saying You would have agents from all over the United States invited to this thing And it would be like everybody gets like a $300 travel voucher No matter where you're coming from and so like I actually lost money going to this stupid awards dinner And and at the same time there were people that were in the same city where it was being hosted And they just got a $300 bonus and all their meals were taken care of And you know they just got to stay in their hometown and got a little bonus money And so I was like well, that's And see even that that's that was not even good Why what did you get for going this event like a trophy a little stupid trophy? Make it worth your money. Oh Here's the scumbag scumbag of the 20 I Don't remember what damn you know this was 2010 Okay, I was just I sold I sold I suckered enough of my friends to buy life insurance from me As I sold like 30 life insurance policies to people who weren't related to me In the first year I think or something and they were like here's a vase trophy and and you get to come to this award ceremony called the club and Is so far away and in like your boss like you have to go and I'm like dude I'm poor. I'm I'm new at this business. It's actually gonna cost me money to go there. Oh, you have to go You have to go. So Yeah, that was the idea is like they were they would they would say well 300 bucks should be able to get you a plane ticket from wherever you live straight to this city and Then and then you're like well shit, man That the cab ride is like 30 bucks then from there, but no it was like it's calculated. It's the See People think new or algorithms are new now group algorithms have been around forever and I've really learned about it firsthand. That's that's how they came up with that $300 amount was an algorithm Tells them how much to pH one of us you felt like peer pressure. Oh, yeah Not out of it. Yeah Like there's no benefit to you just besides the peer pressure. Oh my goodness You would imagine the amount of peer pressure when you're selling insurance. Are you kidding? Did you make enough calls? Did you make enough calls today? If you're not closing, what are you doing? Oh, we used to sit around. This is this gonna sound shamelessly awful I'm just gonna get myself a drink and go to the toilet Shamelessly terrible Cutthroat salesman You know you get new guys all the time coming in want to be salesman in insurance and Insurance it's not the worst thing to sell because everybody basically needs it in the United States for anything they finance Or anything that they're worried about if they have any money. They're worried about their you know What happens if something bad happens and bad things happen? So There's always insurance. There's always insurance salesman And there's always new insurance salesman, so First couple years. I was in it. I took complete advantage of using like the company's location their strategic whatever new training area where I was based out of and I would use that as my office location because the alternative was to set up my own office Which I eventually did but I had to pay for an office myself Which you didn't make enough money to begin with to pay for your own office You had to build up sales clients and all that stuff. Well Just terrible stuff. Well New guys would come in and they would get appointments set and that would be somebody come in and They'd be they'd be like ready to buy stuff You know an insurance policy they go through it car insurance home insurance rental insurance for property and But see the companies they always got super big super big Profits off life insurance and so they were always all you got to get the bundle you got a you got to sell them on a life Insurance Steve and everybody in here. You got to get those life insurance numbers up That's where the big money is and that's where the the fast and furious fame of Insurance will light lead you so if you want to become somebody you could do it very quickly in insurance by slinging life insurance and yeah, it is pretty much a nightmare scenario so These new guys especially one guy would come in I never forget one day. He sat there and this guy I mean he would have made a good sale off this This gentleman he came in he had a whole plan ready for him for his home his cars And that's really where an agent makes most the money because you don't you get you get a couple hundred bucks the first time But every year that you keep that client happy and they were new you get the renewal Amount of your commissions again, so that's how you build business. You just keep those customers happy you keep them and You keep getting money so after 20 years one account will have paid you $50,000 and you get a hundred two hundred three hundred of those and that's really where you get a good business going But the life insurance is like one hit and quit One hit and quit like you'd say the life insurance can it gives you this big fat Fat bag of dope, which is money. That's our boy. Ape and Esquire joining us probably on a Insurance client case break. So they give you this big fat sack of dope. I'm just a Lewis I'm just talking about I'm just in the middle of talking about big fat sacks of dope here In insurance so so I was explaining that when you're an insurance business And you're trying to sell stuff your bread and butter over the lifetime of your business is selling people on stuff They're gonna renew every year. It's like their car insurance their property insurance small businesses Not life insurance not life insurance life insurance. That's what I was saying That's the one hit and it one hit drug of the whole platform you get like 50 60% commission off the first year and Then after that you don't get really any commission like it it all just starts going straight to the company That's why they love you to sell it cuz it's like and then they give you all this incentive to sell it to try To get you these silly sales conferences and like, you know kiss your ass conferences So anyway, the one guy he had this great great client that would I mean this guy was like with another competitor hadn't switched for 25 years finally gave this guy a meeting and Our sales manager before he was meeting with the guy. He's like alright, man you got your plan to sell him some life insurance and I'm like, oh here we go again and He He was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got it and I would always talk to this guy's like man be careful because there's a point There's a point where you try to sell him something so much. They're not gonna buy anything from you Yeah, and this guy we sat there poor guy. I wanted to try to go in and like save him with like a hey How you doing? I'm Steve you want to go ahead and get this done, right? He was so nervous to sell the life insurance policy that any time anything came up He would just circle back to life insurance and the guy was like, I'm ready to get this other shirts going I don't know about life insurance. He would say that it says and I'll talk to you later about it he start going into why he needed it again and It was after an hour and a half the guy said I got up stormed out. So I'm never buying anything from this company Again, you'll only sell life insurance and I just can't handle it. And I was like, oh my gosh Poor guy and then yeah, he didn't obviously the guy who sold that stuff He's still an insurance, but not with that company who only cared about life insurance That's not good sales. Yeah, it was relations with people. Yeah Right, it's not this press hard hard to sell. That's just wrong. That's not how you sell stuff Right, so That's it man. Now. I just like to joke about being an insurance salesman anymore. Thankfully That's quite that going off to his lawyer job. Oh, no, it's the middle of the day for you guys He's probably sitting at his high perch. I think somewhere. Do you think he's up and like looking out like of some view of downtown, Detroit Definitely and uh, I wonder what he is doing. Yeah, thinking about his next Famicom purchase Right as an auction ends Yeah, what is it? What are they what are they eating in Detroit? Like somebody said chili or something You know the old stock traders? Yeah I love that stuff screens, right? Roger's got that but he's looking at He's got just like a whole wall of ebay the Japanese auctions He's got he's got he's got half of them in their raw footage and half of them like translated on the other side It's like like he said it's a it's a whole a whole operation He hires small Japanese people to translate it for him. Okay. That's what the law firm provides So he's got translators To help him work out yahu auctions.com I'm not saying He's coming here to to promote his new video Mmm Just see it if he could get some free views over here Oh, yeah, good. I'm looking for something to I'm looking for something to watch while I'm uh Hide in the bathroom. Is it the wait? What is next one? Oh, okay, cool cool cool. Yeah, because he told me something about an upcoming episode But it wasn't even number two and I was like I never asked him what number two was. I don't even know I like to keep things a mystery sometimes So this should be fun I'll finally have a reasonable guest on you know first one See the first episode Whoever the fuck will do it, right? You don't have to be you just want to get that one out and then second episode then you start get some credibility Okay, now I can talk to somebody reasonable like scarred sprites. I know how this goes All right You probably move up to somebody better and better and better and then and then it'll be like And then we'll call him. He'll be like, oh man. I'm I'm I'm cool I don't need to go on to the cathode ray podcast anymore. You know, I'm yeah, I'm sorry my schedule's full I'm too busy. Yeah. Yeah, he'll be like he'll be like Broker and deals to come on the show. We're talking about getting money to go on the Yeah On the podcast Dude has 800 facebook 800 youtube views. He's already getting paid. That's how He got the early road to monetization Oh man, yeah So, yeah, that's that's cool to see you here I figured you would probably be out working because usually you can't come on and join us this time We have to do the night shift I got kids I got kids that rely on me Thankfully my kids they're they're a little older They do just not to the level of I could give them a little neglect and it's not that big of a deal It's like, hey, it's it gets the age you all we're at. That's the reason we're all here right now It's the age where your parents said go enjoy your nintendo for a while It'll be character building absolutely You were only the 13th guy he asked well, hey, that's great. He didn't even ask me So you're watching boss. Oh, I'm not even on the radar yet I told yeah Everyone wants to be on 8 bit esquires videos now like I think it's going to be the new yeah the new early thing Right. Well 8 bit esquire you need to do which uh Maybe like which wrestling games are the best or something. I don't know You're talking about wrestling. That'd be a good one And uh, yeah, he's been telling me all these past episodes of things. He's been watching. It's pretty funny There's some good youtube or there used to be some really good youtube content with uh wrestling old school wrestling stuff But a lot of it over the years. I noticed has been copyright nuked by like by like the wwe network like I noticed whole channels that used to get Hundreds of thousands of views on these awesome like documentaries they would put together about like dark and seedy history Of wrestling like how some of these guys were doing some really messed up things So they were getting actual content. Oh and and then it would get like yeah And then the channel would be gone like this channel is no longer available all the videos would be gone They get some good traction And now anybody there's still some good stuff on there. I don't know youtube would be an interesting place to see Over the years your take is that the what is it the wwf or the wc? That was back in the day when uh, what do you mean my take on what? Yeah, do you think there's some secret cabal that is Striking down all of the youtube videos. Oh come on. So there's less content. So the The actor I think they're going around. Are you kidding? I got content ID'd A content copyright claimed on two videos last week over stuff that was public domain these were like Yeah recordings It was recordings They don't even give me an opportunity to like fight it Like I don't even know how to fight it like you know what it does It gives me an opportunity to remove remove the music and then I just hit that and it automatically uses AI to pull the song out of the video So now if you go watch it I get monetization But there's no music in that section And the two videos they claimed only had classical music that were like ancient recordings of classical music like So they came through and they claimed the old Mozart stuff like that I was like this is ridiculous, but this this is this is a good warning that we can give 8 bit s squared everybody out there Don't bother anymore with just using random music For your background music I pay a company. I think it's like $15 a month for access to this library of They're not great, but they're pretty decent generic back music and I could use any of it download it put it in the video never get a problem If I could stop paying them They only care about new videos So they wouldn't go back and charge me the old video likes claim the old videos, right? That's part of the agreement But in the past, you know, I've been Tried to use get cute and use video game music, which is a very popular thing to do in the retro community Is use video game music? I do not see how we're going to go through the next three years and there not be some wave Of somebody running around finally copyright claim in like video game music Seems very reasonable Because nobody's like claiming ownership to it right now. There's a lot of stuff Floating around out there. I know a lot of people do it And uh A few years ago, I finally stopped doing it and this was like one of the last things I tried before I finally started paying The um website to just not deal with it. It's almost like I saw him here earlier and I for we forgot to say hey, but mason dropped by Oh, yeah, sorry, buddy. So mason, but it's again. It's like you want to get something that you can kind of rely on usable For a fair charge and that's what mason does. He takes care of the thumbnails This takes care of background music if I want it, but it is another expense. It's like I just say you almost don't worry about music instead of using the copyright claim music Claimable question I've been using some all okay. He's how about instead use really Obscure video game music because probably those guys won't come after you Yeah, I don't know man. You're right Yeah, of course shigiro is coming right after you but get some obscure PC engine Shoot them up background music or something right? I don't know if that company from japan But isn't around anymore is ever coming after you for a copyright claim. Yeah Maybe I'm just saying it might lower your risk to use more obscure music Well, then that's the truth is like it's like we're talking about risk again What level of risk are you willing to take and what do you want? It's almost it does it's it stinks, but it's like At this point if I put music in that a video I don't want that's what I use actually delusional as epidemic sound I don't I don't really go looking for it anymore. Now eight bid Esquire does have a good one Is any of the n64 wrestling games have some awesome just loop music that's great for background video game music Oh, it's so good, but I just there's gotta be a day somebody's gonna come around and say that That belongs to them and if it doesn't you really can't the thing is It's like you don't really have an argument if the stuff doesn't belong to you anyway, right? I mean if they cop somebody copyright claims that and they're doing it wrong I mean, how do you say well, they're doing it wrong, but I don't really owe the copyright anyway. So it's like really hard. I think Sure, so that's one way to think about it another way to think about it is that a piece of work of art Yeah, it sucks right on its own It exists in our lives in our discussion in and now we share means and that's how as a culture We share what you've created and I think it's also a little bit unrealistic to expect that if you create this Society it's like saying I'm gonna create this society changing thing But I'm not gonna allow you guys to talk about it. No, no, no, you can't talk about it It's we're gonna create something so amazing. You really want to what the fuck why wouldn't you let us talk about it? Yeah, it's it's it's troublesome That because and it seems to be mostly centered around Well, it's obviously centered around video clips. You can't take somebody's video clips That's big production and get away with that And then now it's going to be all about sound right and It gets to the point where There's got to be fair use but I know and it's so it's so ridiculous. It's Fair use is all this stuff it's It just becomes one giant headache and a manipulation of things but I feel like Just biting it down and doing that with it is it's just the way that That do you do it either got to do it that way or you have to come to an agreement with somebody who actually makes music That you're going to use as your background talk to chris About his stuff from the displaced gamer like what does he do for it? He said he bought tracks from somebody who's friend who makes music And so he's just like well, you know, that's where I got my music And so he does a deal with them directly, which is another way to do it I'm thinking about that. I spoke to uh, my cousin who is a really great, uh guitar player singing a songwriter And he's got a little youtube channel And his songs are great. He's got all these really catchy tunes that I was messaging my cousin like bro I really want to use your songs on my channel. He's like, yeah. Yeah, tell me what you want Awesome So he's probably gonna help me with little tune or if he's got like yeah the background loop music Yeah, just using some of these tunes on loop or something And I know that I'm not going to get copyright strike for that music and you know, I can support my cousin As well, right? So I'm like Yeah, that's even better Hope you yeah, so just just lucky, you know, just lucky They happen to be Related to someone very talented But once you once you get into it's funny once you get into like the habit of doing it You don't really want to do it another way like you're like, well, I've already Like now This is again, it's funny the steps of creating YouTube videos As you're coming up learning I feel like and I don't know about other people but for me It was steps like what am I doing? Where should I be putting background music? What do I use for background music if I want to I'll use this video game music because nobody's claiming it And it seems fine for a while years go by and you don't think about it till something pops up, but You go through the point where you're like god bless. I've made so many videos I don't even want to think about Like what video music am I using? And have I done it too many times is eventually going to get claimed is You know, whoever makes the music for The kingpin soundtrack or the spider-man kingpin soundtrack from sega cd finally going to get mad And watching my videos and hearing his music in the background the whole time with no credit so Once you get into the habit of doing it the other way professionally kind of you're just like I don't even really want to think about not doing it that way. I guess It's kind of tough, right? You've got to keep now considering all this stuff. It can no longer just be Hey with some people. I guess it's all business, right? Or and I guess we can't complain I don't know they make us think because we get advertising income off the other end I mean, it's still very much stacked against a creator in that regard Yeah, like it would be some outcome in the end. We are getting Yes, we've got to pay to use the services because we're earning income over here, but Still that proportion you got to pay all the streaming services. You got to pay for all the Uh, now I got to pay for sound and I got to get a camera. I got to pay for this thing And I got to pay for that still do my thing so many so many cameras I mean if I could golly if I could show people how many cameras are looking at me I look like I'm four of them there. There's a bunch of eyeballs on me right now a bunch of eyeballs even though they're not real I guess you couldn't switch between them. It doesn't work. Yeah Well, is there any uh, I haven't we haven't got any kind of crazy question in the last while I don't know if there's anybody who has anything they want us to talk about recently or anything coming up Louis got some great stuff coming up Before today we did this episode. We filmed something a new Episode for his channel. So that'll be out next Uh early day so and then Yeah, the podcast I did with Conrad Beckman The dude who made the pico cart 64. So basically just stuck a pico On a pcb and it turned it into an n64 flash cart, which is kind of cool and uh, um, yeah, he's done a bunch of projects that are just about Um making something that we've already got but like making it with like at the lowest cost possible So that pico cart could be made for like three bucks or something And that's just really interesting that he'd like that's his kind of back. That's his jazz Is to like how can I just make it for like no money at all? Um, so it's just like presenting really like the projects he makes are really cool additions to the community Because uh, they form they seem to form like basis projects and other people are using them to make the next level up the next level up So, yeah, we had a nice talk so Um, and because he's on swedish time so we could do it at a nice reasonable hour Yeah, yeah, it's always fun coordinating things between time zones I bet it's get what time is it there for you lord? We got what I got uh 7 45 in the in the evening. Yeah, I got it I got to take a uh I got to take a bathroom break, but I think that maybe we could probably Stop the stream before that. Yeah, I think we're good. We've had a time today We've had a nice time on the stream anybody if you've come in late and you're just getting into the conversation You can watch the playback. It'll be available on the channel and it's looks like we're going up to a strong hour and 40 minutes today, so Something to listen to Yeah, well you reasonable episode Absolutely. Thank you everybody. Thank you everybody who came in and talked with us and uh We'll do another one soon. Go check out the next episode of the cathedrae podcast at zez retro Coming this monday Thank you for joining me today zez Thank you very much. It's a pleasure pleasure being here. See you everybody. Have a great day