 Hi, I'm Realtor Sara Morrow with Cell State Peak Realty. On today's sixth proper tea time episode, we're hearing about the residential permitting process in Longmont from Assistant Chief Building Official Matt Payette. Matt has five years experience with the City of Longmont, and that's even more impressive when you consider that Longmont approves between 6,000 and 7,000 project applications each year. Matt is refined in his craft, he's a licensed master electrician, he's highly efficient in the plan review process, and he's a Longmont native family man. In addition to his degree in public administration, Matt holds the designation of Master Code Professional with the International Code Council, which only a few hundred individuals hold worldwide. So if you're considering a build out, a scrape, an addition, a remodel, a rehab, a flip, or a basement finish, you've got to go through Matt and you'll be lucky to have worked with him. Hi. Thank you so much for being here. Oh, thank you. Welcome. Let's jump right in. So why don't you tell us a little bit about the residential permitting process here in Longmont, who the cast of players are, how that all works. It seems like everyone wants to redo at least their basement these days, so tell us what the steps are. Do we get a lot of basement finish permits? So it starts off with the application and that goes through the permit text and they go through and make sure we have all the information we need to do the plan review. And after that, it gets inserted in there and they put it through our system and it goes to the plan reviewer, which I am a plan reviewer and we also just recently hired a new plan reviewer. Congrats. Yeah, it's exciting. This could help me out. Very nice. The plan reviewer would again check everything for code compliance and once it's been determined that it does meet code, at least on paper, then we'll issue the permit and usually email the applicant and then once that's issued, they can call in inspections. So let's explain to the viewers, when you say meets code, I know that can mean a few different things, but let's say I'm a seller or I'm an owner thinking about selling my house. How do I make sure that what I update in my house before selling is to code? What we're going to do that is to bring in, well, home inspectors. They tend to look at code sometimes or hire a personal contractor. Now if there's work that was unformated, that's no different. So tell me about who's on staff. Do you have home inspectors right there in your permitting department that can help me out in the process? Or do I have to go find those? So for a home inspector, in that case, you'd have to find your own. But you guys have people who come and inspect throughout my progress, right? Yeah. If it's a permit and we're working on it, yep, then we'll come in as long as often as you schedule us. Okay, fair enough. Now, remind me, you're not a tech, what's your role? No, I'm actually assistant chief billing official. And so I started with the city as a building inspector and I did start doing some plan review and then recently, actually in February, got promoted to assistant billing official. Right here. Excellent news. You really know what you're doing and I congratulate you. So going back to this permitting and code thing, let's say I'm a buyer and I love a house. I really want to buy this house but it appears there's unpermitted work or an unpermitted finished basement. What are the consequences? What's the fallout? What's my due diligence? What does that mean? So I guess as a buyer, if you're looking at the house, in order to verify that there was unpermitted work, you can always contact our office and give them the address and they'll look it up and let you know if there's a permit or not. And if there wasn't a permit, then I would suggest as a buyer to talk to the seller about getting a permit. So yeah, I've heard of this, it's retroactively permitting work. Is that what a seller slash owner could do? Correct. And we actually do call it a retro permit. And what we do there is have the owner or seller go ahead and call a licensed plumber, electrician and HVAC technician and they'll come out, they'll do it once over the house or the unpermitted work, they'll sign an affidavit saying that it was from what they inspected it was good and then our inspectors will come out and do a basically kind of a life safety inspection, a final make sure everything's good to go. Gotcha. So just to complete this particular thought before I move to the next one, let's say I'm really quite handy and I, like I said, I want to sell my house and I decide I am going to DIY it. As long as it's sort of to code and inspected, is that okay or should I really get like licensed professionals to do the work? So if you're looking to sell, then you should really get licensed professionals because there is a state statute that says you cannot do a homeowner permit if you're not going to live in the house for at least a year after the work is done. Oh, that's right. Okay. So if I DIY it, I'm in that house from the time that project's done till 365 days later at least just before I can sell it. Correct. By statute. Yep. Okay. That's one of the reasons to get licensed professionals. Yes. Cool. Okay. That makes sense to me. So what else did I want to ask? So timeline, you talked about the full year. I heard with COVID it's really hard to get permits right now and it takes time and it's, you know, first you've got to do this part, then you've got to wait and get an inspection scheduled and then you can do part two and get an inspection scheduled. Like how much of a delay, you know, I know people kind of do this on their own because they don't want to deal with it, but like what's the cost and what's the time cost to actually pull a permit properly? So the timeframe from application to permit issuance is usually no more than four to six weeks. And that depends on the complexity of your project. Something smaller, like even a simple, even a simple basement finish, usually only two to three weeks for to get issued your permit as long as there's no problems with the plans. And then inspections, if the inspection is scheduled by four o'clock, we're out the next day. And if that one, that one permit, for example, do I need to pull an electrical permit, a plumbing permit, a construction permit, or is it all one permit in that same timeframe? Some municipalities, other places do have separate permits for each trade, but not us. We each have a one combo permit for everything. And now if I have my own GC or my own professionals or licensed guys working in my basement, do I pull the permit as the owner? Do they do it? Does it matter? So we would want the contractor to pull the permit. And that's mostly so we have record of who did the work. OK, so you record all those names, you make sure they're licensed. Yeah, we're required. Contractors that work in the city are required to be licensed through us. OK, fair enough. That makes sense. But if I pulled it as an owner, like it's possible, but it's just who knows who did the work, right? Correct. OK, gotcha. And once I have my permit, how long before that expires? A year. However, whenever you schedule an inspection, resets that clock. And for homeowners, typically, if your permit's about to expire and a 10-day letter gets sent out automatically, so before your permit expires, you'll get a letter in the mail that says, hey, your permit's expiring in 10 days. If you're still working on the project, all you got to do is give us a call and we'll likely renew the permit without having to go through all the rigmarole. Fair enough. And I've heard people having to sit before a committee or discuss these changes they want to make to their property with the board. Is it all paperwork now or under what circumstances would I need to discuss this with multiple people? So the board only really comes out when they want to do something that's kind of against code, especially setbacks. Like, you have to put things certain away from your property line depending on what they are. And if you're not putting right up against a property line or within that setback, you have to go to our master board for the variance. I see. So this could be like an addition or an outbuilding or some sort of little pump house or something. Correct, yep. Because you're near too close to the road. The road or your neighbor. OK, fair enough. Now, is there any other owner responsibility, right? Like you mentioned that the buyer really needs to do their due diligence by talking to the seller. The seller really needs to do their due diligence by getting these permits in order and actually providing paperwork for the buyer. What else do I have to do? Do I have to be at home every time the work gets done? Do I have to sort of be there while you do the inspections throughout the process? What is my job as an owner? So as an owner, for inspections, someone needs to be there. When you have access to the project, and that's really about it. If we have access, then we can get into it. If it's the contractor, if it's the home owner, as long as somebody's there so we can actually enter the house to do the project. Cool. So what are your, we mentioned basements are very typical. Anything else that you see? Is it like kitchens getting remodeled? Is it bathrooms? What are people, what are people doing? So I'd say definitely number one is basement finishes. Number two would probably be decks. OK. A lot of decks going in. And do decks, is that more in the summer? It really goes throughout the whole year with the decks and basement finishes. With COVID, there's a lot more interior remodels and so that's because people were at home and doing their own work. Right, right, they were putzing around and tankering. Yeah, the head time. That makes sense. So that brings up another question. If I'm working on a deck, maybe not me, do I need to hire a structural engineer necessarily, or a GC, or what is the difference between those guys? A deck is another thing you can do by yourself. And as far as the application and things you need to submit to us is drawing, and it could just be a sketch on a piece of paper. And then we have a handout you fill out that details the components and materials of that deck, so what size they are, the span to make sure that they're so that we can make sure that those meet code. Fair enough. What could I get away with not getting permitted? If I just want to put in new flooring, if I just want to paint, if I want to maybe rip up some flooring, when do I totally need to get a permit? So things that are exempt from permits are usually anything that's just pure aesthetic, so like paint, flooring, even. Carpet, subfloor. Carpets, all that, usually don't need permits for. And any accessory building or anything like that that's less than 120 square feet, you don't need to permit for. Oh, really? Yeah. So yeah, that's another hot topic. I could do a whole other show on accessory dwelling units, and I probably will, but you're saying if it's tiny, if it's like a room. Well, if it's like a shed, if it's going to be a dwelling unit, then it still needs to be permitted. I see. And that's attached or detached? Correct, yep. OK, fair enough. Yeah, I might have you back for another show. Oh, that's fine. One of your people. Everyone's asking me about these attached dwelling units because affordable housing is just, it's another whole issue. But that's good to know, 120, like a shed, if I want to have some storage outside. You guys, I can go buy a tough shed or something, as long as it's less than 120 square feet. Fair enough. All right. Well, I mean, this was so efficient. You are a wealth of knowledge. Would you share with us, I don't know, some cool story, some cool project that you've seen in the last year, maybe during COVID, maybe something atypical that isn't just a basement that kind of raised your eyebrows? So one of them was actually a basement finish. And they finished a, that was previously on just unfinished storage area. And so it was, I guess, lack of a word of man cave. And the way to access it was actually a, they call it a Murphy door. So it was a bookshelf that opened up into this room. Ooh, it's so clue. Yeah, exactly. And he had all his military memorabilia and stuff in there. So that was really neat. That is cool. Was it like a hit, was it actually kind of hidden? Yeah. Yeah, if I, if I wasn't there to inspect it and they didn't open up for me, I would have never thought to look in it. Fun. And then the new thing that I've seen, only seen once is solar roofs. Okay, yeah, this is common. Yeah, the solar shingles that are coming out now. I wouldn't say common yet, but very, very in demand and kind of curious. Great, and I'm talking to some of the contractors to put those in. That's why we haven't seen a whole lot because there's so much demand for them. And they're pricey too. Yeah, they can't keep up with manufacturing. Oh, interesting. All right. But people are putting in requests for those installations. Yeah, we have four or five permits for those right now just sitting there waiting for them to have materials. Right here in Longmont. Yep. And you're a Longmont resident yourself, right? I was up until recently. Oh, congrats. Yeah, my wife and I moved to Firestone recently. Very nice. Upgrade. Yeah, well. Step up buyer. And I lived in Longmont since I was eight years old, so. So it's time for change. Yeah. Well, you seem to really know the area. You know your stuff. I so appreciate your time, Matt. Of course. Thank you for being here. Yeah. That's the proper tea.