 Biko Zindabad welcome to the next talk of this series Pagame Azadi. The series was started by school for democracy in collaboration with NewsClick to commemorate the 74th anniversary of India's independence. This lecture series is based on our freedom fighters whose contribution made the dream of independence a reality. Looking back at history is not only important for us to learn from it but also to inspire ourselves and to understand how we reach at this particular juncture and how we move ahead from here. Especially in these times of fake news and misinformation and disinformation it is really also important to set the record straight. We have perhaps succeeded to some extent in establishing the socio-political structures and institutions we wanted to establish in an independent India but still the dreams of India's many freedom fighters are far from being realized. In every lecture we'll talk about one such personality and listen about their work ideas and visions from a special guest so that we can know what inspired and guided these personalities. We had the inaugural lecture on Maulana Azad by Saeeda Hamid and one on Jawaharlal Nehru by Ramchandra Guha. You can find the links for these talks in the description. Today's talk is based on Bhagat Singh who when we think of his name we can immediately think of the revolutionary zeal but he left a legacy far more than what he is known to the common man for. His writings which included his vision for an independent India get lost in the picture that has been painted about him. Today we'll try to get to know more about this man and his idea for India. For this we have with us today Saeed Irfan Habib. Irfan Habib has worked in the area of history of science as well as political history. After teaching history for a few years he joined the National Institute of Science, Technology and Development Studies at New Delhi. He spent more than 30 years looking at the intellectual and institutional foundations of modern science and technology during the colonial phase in India. He later moved to the questions of interface between local Indian knowledge traditions and modern knowledge which came along with colonization. In his more recent work he has raised some fundamental questions centering around diversities of knowledge and cultural practices in India and elsewhere around the world. Besides a large number of papers and books he's also written on Bhagat Singh. His book to make the deaf hear ideology and program of Bhagat Singh and his comrades has been translated into several Indian languages. He recently put together a volume on Indian nationalism, the essential writings and another one called In Club, Bhagat Singh on Religion and Revolution. Till recently he held Maulana Azad Chair at the National University of Educational Planning and Administration at New Delhi. Besides being a Fulbright scholar he has been a visiting professor at several universities in India and abroad including Cambridge, MIT, State University of New York and many others. Irfan Habib ji thank you so much for accepting our invitation and for agreeing to do this over to you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much and I'm really happy that School for Democracy thought about including Bhagat Singh into this program and then thought about me to come and speak about him. Thank you for that. Today when we think about our India, the India we are living in, this India has been a result of a huge turning which went through for 100 years. Large number of people got together from diverse backgrounds, diverse ideologies and commitments to build this new India in which we are living today. And one of the people who actually was participant in this struggle to build new India with a vision was Bhagat Singh. Man was too young to actually contribute very much in the building of the country but he was certainly someone who had rich ideas, who was committed to a certain vision, a certain idea of India and that idea of India he has left behind as legacy for us. Unfortunately, in this country where everybody has turned nationalist overnight and as if nationalism didn't exist in India before 2014 as if India was built by aliens who had nothing to do with India as a nation or who had no idea of nationalism or they were not patriots enough. So all this has come about in the past six, seven years and all these people like Bhagat Singh, they are used as nationalist icons because it is very convenient to use them as nationalist icons because it takes forward their idea of vulgar nationalism which is being used every other day to not to actually promote the country but to run down others, the fellow citizens again and again, sometime on the base of religion, sometime on the base of class, sometime on the base of caste all sorts of categories are used to run down their fellow citizens by a large number of people. Sad thing is that this thing didn't happen overnight and I say it again and again, this has been there, this has been part of our politics but it never had and this sort of open state patronage. Today all this is being done by state patronage, that is the fear, that is the most dangerous thing which we are going through and which I keep reminding others also keep reminding that this vision which is being blurred, the vision which Bhagat Singh left behind, so many others left behind is being vulgarized, is being misinterpreted, is being misused and very conveniently used to promote a certain brand of politics, a certain brand of nationalism. So our idea is to save people like Bhagat Singh and their legacy from this poaching which is going on. We need to tell people that Bhagat Singh actually didn't stand for this flag waving aggressive nationalism which was divisive, he was not that, he was very different. Now with this background let me come to what Bhagat Singh was. Now when we talk of Bhagat Singh, we talk about several things, what were the influences on Bhagat Singh which worked, how Bhagat Singh became Bhagat Singh, what all he read, what was his background, all that comes into picture which I will talk about later. We need to see what is actually Bhagat Singh's family background, no not many people talk about it. Bhagat Singh was born in a family which was a family of freedom fighters, not only freedom fighters, a family which was committed to the values which Bhagat Singh took forward later in his life. For example Bhagat Singh's uncle Ajit Singh, no Bhagat Singh's uncle Ajit Singh was someone who organized the presentry, you see look at the period it is before Jalyamala Park, it was early 20th century, 1910s, no 1908, 1909, no that is a period, the Ghadar phase, the early phase of the freedom revolutionary struggle, in that phase Ajit Singh, Bhagat Singh's uncle organized the presentry in Punjab, organized the workers in Punjab, spoke about their rights, spoke about their exploitation, fight against imperialism, so I am saying this because this is what Bhagat Singh did in his later life, so he saw this happening in his family, his own father was a congress activist, Sardar Gishan Singh, he was close to Gandhi, he was close to the congress party, he went to prison several times, one of his other uncles Svaran Singh died in prison because of tuberculosis because he was incarcerated for long, he died in prison, so this is the background which Bhagat Singh drew up in and his uncle Ajit Singh finally left India for 37 years, came back to India in March 1947 at the request of Jawaharlal Nehru, and within few months on 15th August, look at the date, on 15th August 1947 he died in Dalhousi, so this is the background of Bhagat Singh's life, early life, so all the politics which he inherited was this politics, politics of fighting for the poor, fighting for the underprivileged, fighting for the peasants, fighting for the farmers, so this is the lesson he learned from his family, now this lesson he takes forward when he grows up, he was a man, he was a man with faith and he talks about it that he actually belonged to a very, very, very strange family, he belonged to a family, which was an Arya Samaji Sikh family, you won't find any such families, Arya Samaji Sikh family, now, so he used to, Bhagat Singh has written in his viveneth, he's also that famous pamphlet, I will talk about it later, that he used to recite Gita, he had a commitment to God, his letters also if you read, so they keep changing, he is using all the religious metaphors, categories to address and to say bye bye in the letter, all that was inspired by his faith, later on all that disappears as he evolves as an intellectual, so this is a life which Bhagat Singh actually led right from the beginning, now what were his commitments, his commitments were, first his commitment was to build an India which is, which is, which is cruel, which is secular, which is socialistic, which is, I, people actually talk about the demise of communism in the world, I don't think that has anything to do with Bhagat Singh, or relevance of Bhagat Singh, because Bhagat Singh's values, the ideals he stood for are relevant even today, because he talked of the poor, he talked of the marginalized, no he talked of all those who were deprived, that section has not disappeared from society, that section has increased, numbers have gone up, so the values he espoused were not really theoretical Marxism, organized Marxism, he himself was not part of any organized Marxist political party, and this is also a question which people raise again and again to me also, that why did he not join a communist party which was founded in 1925, and there are answers for that which I have dealt with elsewhere, now the point is, the values he stood for, the fight he stood for, the, the mission he had in mind as a young man, that mission is unfulfilled, so his relevance continues, his relevance continues even now, his commitments continue even now, now when you look at these three, four things which he, which were close to him, look at the revolutionary activities he was involved in, and you, except for one, the, the murder of Saunders in Lahore after Lajpatra's death, that is one, one, you can call a terrorist activity, whatever the name you want to give, where he was involved in taking a, a life of a, of a human being, and he regretted it later on, in his pamphlet, so many of his writings, etc., and he never again participated in anything, and in anything which was, which was a danger to human life, Indian or foreign, and it is very clear in all his writings, again and again, all other activities of his are linked to his ideological commitments, for example, the throwing of the bomb in the assembly, where did he go and throw bombs in the assembly in 929, 8th April 929, he threw bombs, because the British government was bringing a legislation, passing a resolution, legislation on public safety bill, a legislation on against the rights of the workers, the labor, the labor movement, both Bhagat Singh, Bhagat Singh and his associates, they had been writing against it. The British government refused to listen. Finally, they decided, let us go and make the def here. The government is deaf, they are not listening, let us make some noise, and that is how the bombs were tested, and I say it again and again, when people say that this was violence, they were aimed at taking people's lives. No, Bhagat Singh should have done that, there were important people sitting in the, in the, in the Lok Sabha, which is Lok Sabha today, the same building. No, it was the same building, which we have Lok Sabha today, where Jinnah was sitting, Mothra and Lehru were sitting, so many other senior leaders were there, but people should know that these bombs were tested in Agra. No, they had an office in Agra, they tested these bombs, and they could see that the bombs should actually only make noise and smoke, they should not hurt anybody. Three, four times the bombs were tested, this all record available, one can read that. So, it was, there was a commitment that human life should not be affected. The idea was to wake up the sleeping government, and this is what they did, the bombs made noise, the bomb made smoke and all that, and they were arrested. So, idea was to take forward the ideology, the commitment which they had, commitment for the worker, for the, for the, for the labour class, for the, for the poor, and to make the colonial government aware that this is, this is what we want, which you don't want to listen, and we are making some noise. So, at least now you can listen to what we are trying to say. So, this is, this was the idea, this was the reflection of his and his comrades commitment to the cause they stood for. So, even the revolutionary action reflected what they actually wanted, the ideological commitment they had. Bhagat Singh did one thing very, very significant in his life. He tried to institutionalize the, the ideas he stood for, because the revolutionary party, the Hindustan Republican Association, which he joined in 1924, and Hindustan Socialist Republic, Republican Association, which he himself transformed in 1928 in Delhi, in Porosha Kotla, where they had, where they had a meeting, and that meeting added socialism to their revolutionary organization, which, which is known to people, people. Now, in 1926, before this, he did something significant. He formed a public platform as a young man called Nojavan Bharasava. So, Nojavan Bharasava was an organization which was, which was a public platform, which Bhagat Singh founded. He himself spent a lot of time later underground, after 1928. But Nojavan Bharasava remained a very active platform. He spread all over UP, Punjab, and, and, and Rajasthan, western UP particularly. It was a platform which organized a huge meeting in 1931 after Bhagat Singh was hanged, and Congress session was held in Karachi. Subhash Chandra Bose was invited. He came to participate in Congress session, but he was invited to deliver a special lecture in Nojavan Bharasava conference, which was held next to the Congress pandal. And Subhash Chandra Bose spoke so eloquently about Bhagat Singh and his ideals, his politics, his vision, and which included socialism, which included secularism, which included pluralism, scientific temper, gender justice, all sorts of issues were touched by Subhash Chandra Bose. And these were all very dear to Bhagat Singh himself. So, so Nojavan Bharasava became a very, very important platform. And it was created by Bhagat Singh and his associates. And this was again an extension of his ideological plan, program and commitments. So these were the institutions. Now what did, there are few things which are relevant in today's context. We keep talking about slogans today. There is a lot of fight over slogans, which is a slogan which will make you a good nationalist. Bharat Mata Ki Jai, Jai Hind, Mandi Mataram. These are slogans which are being used to divide people, without even having an idea that in freedom struggle, most of the slogans actually are inheritances from our freedom struggle. We didn't have these slogans during the ancient period or medieval period or whatever. They were born 100 years back when we were fighting the British. And different leaders, different people at different occasions, coined slogans, which we used. Now whenever, whenever, whatever we needed at whatever time, we use a slogan. So there was no one slogan, which was a standard slogan, which could be called a nationalist slogan, which will make you a nationalist. So that was not true. Now look at Naajman Bharat Sabha. Naajman Bharat Sabha in one of their, one of their programs declared that we don't believe in slogans which are being used by, by lots of nationalists till now. And this is a, I think matter of 1928 to 27. The slogan, which Congress party or even other nationalists think unites people like Narayatak Bir Allah Akbar for Muslims, like Sat Sri Akal, Jobola Sonial, Sat Sri Akal for Sikhs, Harar Mahadev or Mandi Mataram for Hindus. All these three slogans were used in public meetings. So that you could bring together all three communities or reflect upon or include all these three communities. Now Bhagat Singh says that this is not our idea of India. We want only two slogans to be used in Kalak Zindabad, Hindustan Zindabad. No, this is how our India is. If you use these three slogans and make people conscious that they are Muslims and Sikhs and Hindus, then you're not doing a great service to the country or to nation or nationalism. This is divisive. You are reminding people that you are divided. You are Muslim, you are Sikh, you are Hindu. We don't want that. We just want two slogans. In Kalak Zindabad, Hindustan Zindabad, workers of the world unite. So this was the only idea. So they actually countered this openly and in their meetings, never such slogans were ever used once they decided. Not that they were against Mandi Mataram. They were not. This is also like something used against them. They were not against Mandi Mataram. If somebody wants to use it, fine, but that cannot be a measure of nationalism or anybody's nationalism. So their own commitment was in Kalak Zindabad and Hindustan Zindabad. That was the main idea they wanted to have. Another important thing which is relevant today and which not many people actually are aware of is Bhagat Singh's writings, his vocation as a journalist. You see, he didn't become a revolutionary overnight. He began as a scribe and he started writing when he was 16 or 17, because he died at 23, 23 years and four or five months. So he didn't really have a long life and his active life was six, seven years. So he began writing and participating in public life, political life from the age of 16 or 17. The first article he wrote in Hindi in 1924 and he was born in 1907. Imagine what was his age. In 1924, he was in his teens. You can't even imagine today a young man of this age to think coherently. Forget about writing. To think on a subject like Universal Brotherhood. Universal Brotherhood is such a difficult subject to write and he wrote this in a magazine called Matwala in two parts, which used to come out in Calcutta. So this was the first article he wrote. So when he started writing, he began from Matwala. Then he joined the editorial board of Kirti. Kirti used to be a paper used to come out from Amritsar. It was a paper started by Sohan Singh Kyosh who was a labour leader, was a president leader, Socialist Workers Party. So he invited a single man from Lahore to come and be on the editorial board. So he wrote a series of very interesting articles in 1928. And these are few things which we need to remember today. In today's India, because most of those articles are so relevant even now. Like for example, in May 1928, he wrote a piece called Achyutka Svaal, a question of untouchability. Now, untouchability is such a serious issue even today. There is something so sad that what Bhagat Singh wrote in 1928, what he found as a serious problem in 1928 in India, is a serious problem even now. So I am not really happy when I say that Bhagat Singh is irrelevant even now. He should have been irrelevant because all these problems should have been solved because these people are relevant because we have not done enough to take their ideas or take their vision forward. Lots of things have remained incomplete. And this is one, the question of untouchability. What Bhagat Singh says, he says lots of things. And I will just touch upon two which are relevant today. He, while writing, he writes about conversion. Conversion is a major issue all the time. It keeps cropping up. And he says, why are people talking about conversion? Conversion will happen in this country where you have discrimination. Well, you have more than six crore people whom you have declared untouchable. They can't enter your kitchen. A dog can enter your kitchen. But an untouchable can't enter your kitchen. A dog can come and sit in your lap. But untouchable, if he touches you, you become impoluted. So in this country, when something like this happens, obviously people will go to any religion, Islam or Christianity, where they are respected, where they become human from untouchables. So he is writing very clearly in that. So this is what is happening. So we need to mend our own house. You go and blame the British that the British are not giving you equality. Peep into your this thing first and see what are you doing to your own people for centuries? Then ask for equality from the British. If you don't treat your own people with equality, how can you ask the British to treat you with respect? So these are the words of a young man in 1928. So he was conscious of the fact that we have been a divided society. We have made a large number of people suffer. We have insulted a huge section of our population, made them conscious that they are not equal. They don't deserve to drink the same water from where the upper caste drinks. So these are issues which he is trying to raise. He is bold and I'm really surprised that he in that article he says that in our country, we have senior leaders of the Congress party of the country, people like Madan Mohan Malvi. He takes his name that he goes to the meetings or untouchables. He invites them to the dias, hugs them in public, goes back home and takes a bath with his clothes on. So this is the politics we are trying to play with them. So the respect, in public you do something, in private you do something. So these are things which Bhagat Singh is trying to raise and he's bold enough to say, even as a young man, name the people. He names Laala Lajpatrai. He names Madan Mohan Malvi. Lajpatrai becomes an active member, supporter of Hindu Mahasava and Bhagat Singh and his associate, Kedana Sehgal. They bring out actually a leaflet against Laala Lajpatrai. The same people go and take revenge, his death when he's injured in 928 in a demonstration. So there is no hatred towards anybody. Respect remains but disagreements apart. He knew, they knew the Lajpatrai is our foremost nationalist and any attack on him is an attack on Indian nationalism, Indian nationhood and his death is avenged but disagreements are there in public. They have written so many. Bhagat Singh himself wrote so much against him and against his politics. His support for capitalists, his support for communalists, all that is there documented in the book which I have just published recently. I have included some of them. One can see all that. So this is the politics which Bhagat Singh was part of and one need to keep in mind that his nationalism and let me come to that nationalism part because that is something so rampant today that everybody is talking about nationalism. Every act of today's government is a nationalist act whether it is demonetization, whether it is anything can be linked to nationalism. So the point is what is this nationalism about? You talk of Bhagat Singh, you use him as an icon, you celebrate his martyrdom but you don't talk about his ideas. Now you can't celebrate him as a martyr only. Now you just remember him on 23rd March. Garland is a photo. That's all and then made for the next year. The point is Bhagat Singh has to be alive. He has to be lived every day. His ideas have to be lived every day because he is not one of those martyrs, one of those nationalists who just went to the gallows and just gave away his life for the country which he did but he did much more than that. He left behind an intellectual legacy, a written corpus which we need to read and understand. That's what they're not doing. The point is we need to understand what Bhagat Singh is and that is possible only when we read what he wrote. Unfortunately, that is something so difficult to do because raising slogans or garlanding statues or photos is so convenient and it actually does the job that you remember him or remember anybody for that matter. But if you engage with the ideas then it becomes a serious challenge because then it challenges your own belief. You have to change according to the ideals which you have inherited from people like Bhagat Singh. That's what we are not supposed to do. We are not prepared to do. We are only ready to use it so that our own political ideals, political vision of today is strengthened. So you don't bother about the past, you don't bother about the future, you only concerned about the present. So how you use Bhagat Singh is the ideals for the advancement of your present political concerns. So we need to save Bhagat Singh, at least remind people that Bhagat Singh is stood for something else. Today, another thing which we need to understand and which is so rampant today is the role of the press, the media. We keep talking about media, we keep cursing media for its role, for its complicity in what is happening around us. Look at Bhagat Singh in 1928, in July 1928 issue of Kirti. He writes that the press today is so irresponsible. He's writing in 28 and he's writing about print media, there was no other media available, there was no TV channel and he says that media is so irresponsible today. They use provocative headlines to divide people, they incite people, they use communal slogans, they use caste slogans. This is irresponsible press. The role of the press was to build composite nationalism. The Bhagat Singhs were not mine. The role of the press was supposed to be composite nationalism, shared nationalism, shared idea of India to bring people together, to be inclusive. All that is being denied, all that is being forgotten by the press today. Instead they are trying to divide people, they are trying to incite people against each other, they are using all sorts of communal categories and incitements to divide India. So this is something being said in 1928. So what is happening today is not something new. Now people like Bhagat Singh were conscious or aware of the dangers of irresponsible journalism even in 1928, which was not a free India, which was a British India. The battle was still going on. So these are ideals which we need to recollect what Bhagat Singh is left behind. When Bhagat Singh goes to prison after he is arrested from the Delhi assembly, the two years, close to two and a half years we spent in Lahore prison, he matured, he matured further because he got a lot of time to read. If you read his, if you see his prison diary, which is now printed also available in public, I used it when nobody had it. I think I was the first person to use it as a researcher in 1981, 79, 79, 80. The printed, the typed copy had come from Russia, Mitrovich was one of those Russian scholars who took this diary with him from Bhagat Singh's brother, Kulbeer Singh, from Faridabad in 1970s. And then he got it typed and somebody came and I got hold of it, I was working on Bhagat Singh in those days. And he had not even gone to the archives and because his brother didn't hand it over to the archives, he kept it for so long with him. He went to archives and all that became a public document. Now look at this prison notebook. The prison notebook gives you an idea what Bhagat Singh was reading, what all he was reading from literature, poetry, economics, history, constitutional issues, international, national, all these issues are there, his notes are there and one can understand the mind of Bhagat Singh by reading all that. The last article which he wrote from there is an appeal to the young, appeal to the young Punjab, young India. It's a long sort of article which gives you an idea of the literature he has read. Everything that he quotes large number of like authors and experts in that, in that article, the last article, 3rd February 1931. And the best and the longest piece he wrote was Vyamanath East. That also was written in prison. Now when we see the title Vyamanath East, generally people think that it must be some sort of a harangue against God, something abusing God, his existence, which is there of course, but it is something more than that. Vyamanath East is there, is there, very, very special document. It speaks about so many things over there. For example, it talks about scientific temper, it talks about rationality, it talks about rational behavior, it talks about questioning mind, it talks about questioning everything inherited. Urdu may, it is called taklid, you know, you inherit a tradition. So anything inherited from the past need to be questioned, whatever it is. Don't, don't follow anything blindly. These are all, I'm just summarizing what Vyamanath East says. Don't follow anything blindly. Put a question mark on everything. Use your brain to understand what you have inherited. Understand the existence, if you are a believer, understand the existence of God. Try to question him. Don't, don't just let me follow. So these are large number of things. Then another thing which he says, and he's saying in the context of Gandhi, then, but it can be used in the context of present day India. He says, don't follow anything blindly. Don't follow any leader blindly, even if he is Gandhi. That's what he's saying. Don't follow anybody, any leader, even if he is Gandhi, without understanding, without critically analyzing, without critically understanding. So this is a lesson which we need to take from Bhagat Singh today. If we are a great follower of Bhagat Singh and we really follow him, then use your brain, see what your leader is doing, what is good in him, what is bad in him. No, bad should be called bad. Good may be appreciated if there is any good. But don't, don't be blind. No, when you are following a leader, a leader can, can falter. Leader can never always be right. So this is the lesson which Bhagat Singh is trying to convey in bio and atheist. So these are issues which is raising that important document, which we need to remember, which we need to take along, develop and make them live. So Bhagat Singh is not dead for us. He's alive because his ideas are alive. When his ideas are alive, when his ideas are relevant, then, then the man is not, not a martyr. He's not dead for us. He's alive for us. Because if we can engage with his legacy, use it every day in our everyday life, political life, social life, intellectual life, then he's not dead at all. So he's, he's like kids, he's like Shelley. No, these are all the people who died very young. Kids died very young. Shelley died very young. But, but those people you remember very easily, there were poets, you know, you can easily follow them. But people like Bhagat Singh who died equally young at 23, leaves behind a very, very difficult legacy, which is not very easy to follow, which is very convenient to ignore. Because that's how, that's how you can, you can remember him. Because if you follow him, then you need to do a lot to reorder your life, you know, redo your life, reconstruct your life. Because Bhagat Singh was not a reformer. He was a revolutionary. He didn't believe in reform. Reform means you keep the pillars of the house standing. He wanted to restructure everything. And that is the difference actually he's trying to make in one of his very, very, very interesting articles on, on Suvashanth Bose and Jamal Al-Naru. He's comparing the two in 928 in one of the articles. He says Suvashanth Bose is a, is a romantic. He is a romantic. He's a reformer. No, he talks of the past. He talks of the inherited tradition. No, he talks of cultural values, etc. You know, he wants to keep the pillar of the house standing. He don't want to redo everything. He want to make a reform. But today's India doesn't need that. We need to redo everything, demolish the structure, build a new. And it's only Nehru who can do that. Because he's a Yoganth Kari. That's the word he uses. He's a Yoganth Kari. He's a revolutionary. No. And he believes in restructuring the society. So these were his views 28. His views would have been later on had he been alive that we are not sure. But in 1928, these were his views about these both, both the leaders. He said Suvashanth Bose is a emotional Bengali. These are the words he's using. He is an emotional Bengali. No, while Jamal Al-Naru is a realist. No. So these are these are understandings of a young man in the year 23, 22, when he wrote this and which we need to, which we need to follow. Unfortunately, we don't even bother to understand this. Bhagat Singh is not relevant only for India. He's relevant for South Asia. He's relevant for United India and Pakistan. Most of his, most of his, but like Lahore was his Karambhoomi. No, whatever he did, he did in Lahore. He was, he studied there, his political activities by Lahore. He was hanged in Lahore. So Lahore was his Karambhoomi. He did everything in Lahore from that city. So he has a huge following in Lahore itself, in Punjab also, among Punjabis. So his values and actually he's the only one. He's the only one who can be a shared hero. Gandhi can't be a shared hero. Nehru can't be a shared hero. Mananandad can't be a shared hero. Swaichand Bose can't. Bhagat Singh is the only one who can be a shared hero of these two countries. Despite all our problems, Bhagat Singh is the only one who unites us. And I believe that we have to, we both these nations need to take his legacy forward. If, if any time peace descends in the region today, nothing is possible because everything is in such a bad shape. If things improve, whenever they improve, I think Bhagat Singh is one person who can bring India and Pakistan together, at least culturally together. So there are values which we should cherish, which unfortunately we have forgotten. The values which Bhagat Singh is left behind, the politics he has left behind, the struggle he has left behind, the goals he has left behind, the goals still unfinished and achieved. All those goals need to be, need to be achieved. And Bhagat Singh stood for all those goals, which we are missing today. Things which, which we need to do today. And Bhagat Singh is one, one person who can really take us forward to, to reach those goals. And unfortunately, a large number of people don't even bother, don't even think that those goals have any value or they are worth pursuing. And that is the reason why, why we don't take all that seriously. The point is, if we, we ourselves become serious about, not only about Bhagat Singh, about all those, all those great minds, you know, who, whom we think are irrelevant today, let us salvage, let us bring out whatever is salvageable in their ideas. And there is a lot which we can find to, to instill into our programs, which we are taking forward. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you Irfan ji. Thank you so much for this talk.