 So I think for most of our listeners, having heard your back story, your list of accomplishments at this point seem unreal to them, obviously going through ultramarathon running, logging the miles you've logged, the chin-ups, everything that you've done physically, when most people hear it, they're like, well, that's impossible. That was my first thought, my first exposure to you was your interview with Joe Rogan. And I'm watching it and I'm sitting like, this guy cannot be for real, there's no fucking way. And of course, I'm instantly a Wikipedia and I'm like, holy shit. Right. There's video footage. Okay. So now I'm just going to shut my mouth and I'm going to listen to what this guy has to say because obviously my mind is blown out of the gate. And I also wanted to start just by saying that all of us in life hear things, read things and see things that instantly change our perception of things from that point on. And it's rare that we ever get to give thanks to those sources. So I want to thank you. And I appreciate that. Because after that interview with Rogan, the way I had looked at my waking up in the morning and working out and starting the day instantly changed from that point forward. So thank you. Now your lovely fiance's in the room. Yes. How does this relationship balance work when you have such lofty goals for yourself? Physical challenges. You want to chip away at David Goggins every day. How do you two work together so that she can reach her personal goals, but then also as a couple of you guys can recharge? You know, the best thing you got to find someone that is just like you. She has the same kind of ambition that I have. So what we're all about is where do you want to go next? And she's like that with me and I'm pushing her like the same way. So it can't be all about David Goggins. Can't be all about David Goggins. You have to be able to sacrifice the, hey, OK, Jennifer, what the fuck do you want to do next? We got to put all of our cards into that shit. So it's a, I don't believe in a lot of balance in life because to be the best at anything in life, that scale has to be a little fucked up. Has to be. But in this situation right here, she has to know I got her back like she has my back. So it's not all about me. So we work good together that way. The one of the big things that I feel a lot of us have in our lives is the doubters, especially the doubters from family members and people really close to us that we don't want to lose, but are telling us, no, you can't. Your dreams are too big. That's impossible. What the hell is wrong with you, David? Right. How do you deal with those people in your life that you still care about but are like, you can't run 200 miles. What is wrong with you? You're going to kill yourself. Well, the honest answer to that question is there's a lot of them out there, but most of them are that way for one big reason. They can't see themselves doing it. They can't see themselves doing it. It's one big reason. The other reason is a lot of it is jealousy. When you set these humongous fucking goals and they see that you're getting at it, let's say, for instance, we have a family. Let's say we're all a big family here. All three of us, all four of us are a big family. And every fucking morning, I'm getting up training for a 200 mile run. And you see me get up at four o'clock in the morning and all you fuckers are sleeping. And by the time I get done running my 30, I come home just getting up. How are you going to feel about yourself? A lot of times when you're an overachiever and you have people, that's what I talk about the mediocrity thing. A lot of our family members, a lot of our friends, they're mediocre. There's always those couple of guys who are uncommon, who want to be better. But you make that mediocre motherfucker feel like shit. Whether it's your mom, your dad, whoever, you make him feel horrible. I've been there. I'm speaking from experience. When you get somebody around, you make who's trying to be better and you don't have the drive that they have. It's a constant reminder of how fucked up you are. You have to know that that's what it is. Anybody in your course not saying, man, get after it, but I'm so proud of you. They have a problem with themselves because all you're trying to do is achieve more. If that's a problem for somebody, you have to look at them and say, man, you really have a fucking problem with yourself. It's much deeper than what you think. It lies deep in your soul. How I was able to fix myself was I saw how ugly I was towards other people who were great. I was able to look back and say, man, you don't hate that motherfucker for any reason because he's great and you're lazy. You're lazy. He makes you feel like shit every single day. That's where it comes from. You have to know where shit comes from to be able to solve it. You know, it's interesting about that. A lot of people talk about, you know, you'll find out who your true friends are when you're at your lowest. That's right. You'll also find out who your true friends are when you're rising. 100%. And that mantra of whatever you don't like doing, do it. Right. Love it. Do something you fucking hate every day. True thing. True thing. Is jarring for most people to hear because most of us seek out our comfort zone. And for you, your comfort zone with dealing with some social anxiety and introversion is to turn Edward. Right. So how have you been able to rebuild yourself? Because one of the mantras we hear in your videos is I built this motherfucker. Right. So I take a lot of passion in who I am as a person. As you hear, as this podcast gets going and going and going, what you're going to do is you're going to transform me from this guy right now that's kind of chilled out in this room, David Goggins to Goggins. And I had to invent this person. David Goggins is an introverted, soft kid that got beat up growing up and mindset had the lie to create friends, to get friends, to be accepted. So my life has really been about two people. Very scary, but two people. I had to invent a whole another human being to get outside of my comfort zone. And that human being became Goggins. Goggins is like the guy that walks out of the phone booth. He's like that Superman that walks out of the phone booth. And I was talking to my fiance today about it's kind of strange how sometimes I have a conversation between David Goggins and Goggins. And Goggins will tell David Goggins about the shit he's done. And David Goggins like, what the hell man? Why are you doing that? That's nuts. So it's kind of this battle between trying to find more of yourself, knowing that the real you is afraid, likes comfort, likes living in a world that likes to pat you on the back, give you the things that you want to hear, not the things that you have to hear to get better. So that's where all this kind of started from. And when people hear this podcast, they're gonna hear a lot of things that they're gonna wanna put a title on me. They're gonna definitely wanna put a title on me to make themselves feel better. I asked them during this podcast, do not do that. Do not look at what you're gonna hear, put a title on me, because basically what you're doing is you're giving yourself a get out of jail free card. Exactly. So all you're doing, you wanna sing this guy was some super freak. He found some super thing in his brain that was locked up. He unleashed it and became this guy. It's a fucking lie. Because every day I wake up, I dread the day. I dread the day of what I'm gonna bring on myself to get better. So. And when did Goggins' alter ego appear in your life for the first time? Goggins appeared and disappeared several times. Okay. It appeared the first time in our 17 and we'll get to that, but it really appeared when I gained about 125 pounds. I went from 175 to 300 pounds the most. And lowest part of my life, I was in a fucked up relationship. I was making no money. I was praying for cockroaches and all this stuff was just coming on me. And I'd like, I have to find something and Goggins came out. Like through all my insecurities, all my fears, all my doubts, all my introverted ways. I used to study real bad. Everything I did, I had to find strength in that. And that's kind of what happened about 24 years old. Okay. And the story, if I recall correctly, is walking in to try to become a Navy SEAL until a recruiter's office and basically getting laughed out of the office. That happened about seven times. Okay. So I give people like the quick version, the quick version, I give them one episode. This is about two weeks. And in my book, I go through it. You know, I sit on the couch, saw this show on the Discovery Channel and that started the process of, I think I want to be a Navy SEAL. So I started calling up different recruiters, walking into some, some guy said to me, you're fat and you're black. He was an observant motherfucker, you know, 300 pounds black guy walking. He's very observant. So that kind of went on for a while. Until I met one recruiter and one recruiter saw something in me that no one else saw and gave me a shot and gave me a shot. And a challenge, right? Come back, lose the weight. Right. So basically I walked in, I had about three months, a little less than three months to lose 106 pounds. So I was like, this is fucking impossible, man. I can't do that. At that time, I had no real drive to be a Navy SEAL, to be anything. I just knew something had to change. I had to, this isn't gonna work, man. This lifestyle that I'm living, something has to change. So I went to work that day and I was praying for cockroaches and lo and behold, it was a very bad day at work. I found a whole bunch of cockroaches, rodents, it was a bad restaurant. And I came home, I quit my job that day. I was driving home, I said, I gotta fucking do something. And I said, I'm gonna go home and run four miles in four miles and only a quarter mile. And then from there, the story really begins from that point. And I feel like that's such a crossroad in everyone's life where someone tells you you can't, you're not good enough, don't even try, give up. And when you're staring that self doubt and wanting to quit in the face, can you at least speak to the listeners who are feeling that right now? What would you say to yourself at that point? Well, I understand it, it's a miserable place. I can, like now that I'm going there, now you have me, I'm living on that couch right now with that milkshake in my hand, thinking about how the fuck am I gonna pull this off? I feel like that moment is relatable to everyone. And a lot of us have multiple moments like that in our lives and most of us choose the easier route to quit. And we'll talk a little bit more about this. Some of us get coaches and mentors and trainers to kind of help us push through that. You're sitting there on the couch, it's you. There's no one, there's no seal yelling in your ear saying get the fuck up, we gotta do this. And the other thing, and we were talking about this on the way over is we're living in this world where you don't want to upset anybody, you don't want to tell them though, you don't want to tell them they're not good enough, you don't want to hurt them and because they might feel bad. And it's, we already have that feeling within us. And if you stomp that out, what is going to drive you to get better? Well, that's what I realized for myself was I wanted that comfort zone that everybody looks for, that pat on the back. They don't want to hear all the bad shit. They want to hear everything that they're doing right. And I realized that's what kept me in this world. That's what kept me in this world of not accomplishing anything. So what I did was I became that big, bad, nasty motherfucker that you don't want to walk into at nighttime. I became the roughest critic in the world on myself. And that's what changed me. I literally saw myself in the mirror. I saw the truth versus saying, you know, my dad did this to me from, you know, from beating me, kids in school from calling me nigger did this to me. My life did this to me. My fucked up broken foundation did this to me. I took that and said, you know what? Well, some people may help this happen, but now I have to own this. No one's gonna come back to save me. No one's gonna come back on this fucking couch and say, hey, it's okay. You're gonna be okay. No, I'm not. I'm not gonna be okay. I had to realize I had to take a stand. I had to make a real stand. And it was painful to look at who I was, what the world and myself created. It created a very lonely, depressed, insecure man that would do anything just to have a friend. And I saw that as very pathetic. When you look at the truth, it becomes very ugly and pathetic. So. So you lose the weight. You show back up at the recruiter's office. Right. He's gotta be surprised all hell. Didn't even recognize you. Well, what happened was, in the real story, how that happens is, I would call this guy up almost every night about 10, 30, 11 o'clock at night and give him an update. Wow. I said, hey man, I've lost 25 fucking pounds. Cause no one knew what I was doing. I had to have some. So I'm really good at creating an enemy. I'm really good at creating something that I'm against. And I'm also good at, if you ever tell me something that I cannot do, I'm gonna let you know that I'm doing it. Somehow, somehow you're gonna fucking know one way or another that I'm doing it. It may not be like in your face. It may, I may make sure that I run across the dad gone world. So then it's on the news and you turn the news on. I said, how the hell did he do that? I wanna do something that you know, I'm here. I'm here. So every, every time I lose like a big significant amount of weight, I call that recruiter up and say, hey man, I'm here. I'm here. And before I knew it, man, this guy became almost like my best friend at that time. Cause he started seeing, I started actually changing his life. You know, I started seeing, you know, he started seeing, wow, man, like, I'm glad I took a shot on this guy. Right. And I, and not only did I lose weight, I had to go back and take the ASVAP test again. It was like a war down in SAT a couple more times just to get in the Navy SEAL. So it was a big process. So that three months was packed full of like failures, depression, even more. What I found out in that whole three months, I lived a lifetime in that three months. I started realizing if I can flip, if I can flip these insecurities upside down, if I can flip this fear, if I can flip all this shit that made me this depressed insecure guy, if I can flip it and make it work for me versus against me, I started seeing the power, the power and failure, the power and insecurity, the power and self doubt, because I looked at everybody, it may not be true, but that's how I looked at everybody's being way above me. I thought to myself, if I can be at the lowest part in the world, in the sewer and be able to overcome all this shit, I started using that as power. I slowly started passing the guys from Harvard, the guys from MIT, the guys who were these great, from great families and shit. I'm like, oh my God, I'm catching up. I'm catching up. I had nothing. So I started flipping it and using this power. And I feel like we've definitely interviewed a lot of successful people and almost all of them have this chip on their shoulder that they developed from that bullying in school, that one moment, that one criticism that says you can't. Here you are doing all of this just to sign up for then hell week, which is one of the most difficult weeks on the planet to begin with. And you had to go through all of this. And obviously, whenever you're training, there are good days and bad days. Johnny and I were laughing about this, obviously half marathon, nowhere near ultra marathon, but you're tracking, right? You're looking at your time. You're looking at your splits. You're trying to do better. And some days you just don't have it. And I feel like in those moments where you don't have it, you know you don't have it, how do you flip that switch to get that extra ounce of energy? Because once I know that pilot light is lit and that water is boiling, well then you feel like you can take on everything. But a lot of us are feeling our pilot light flicker and that self-doubt creep back in even though we're challenging ourselves. Well, there's something that I invented a long time ago. And when you have nothing to draw from, I was able to find strength in every molecule of this earth. I'm able to be in a room with nothing, with no motivation, no inspiration, nothing and find it. So what I did in those situations was I invented this thing called taking souls. When everybody's all fucked up and you're exhausted and you're weak and you're tired and you're looking around and everybody looks as bad as you or even worse. I'm like, you know what? I want to now make a statement. It's the perfect time to make a statement, to make a statement to let you know where your life ends and mine begins. And so the statement there is I muster up every bit of strength from their looks on their faces and how they feel and how I'm gonna now from my childhood where I came from, how I was the bottom of the barrel, I'm now amongst all these uncommon people. I'm now going to now make you feel like you're common. So I use their sadness, their weakness, their parts of their life for God, this sucks. I'm like all poopy pants to messed up. I use that for my strength. And I have this moment of like, let's say we're in the sand, we're running or whatever, I will do a surge, I will do something when everybody's like, how the fuck is he doing this? And from that look on their face, that feeling of God, man, this God must be something special. It then surges me further and further and faster and harder for a long time. So it's energies everywhere, but the thing is, it's so loud that voice in your head of pain and suffering and discomfort and I don't want to do this, it's so loud that you're unable to really calm it down. It's okay, there's something here. It's a patient calm that you have to bring yourself to say, I know I have something here, but that voice is so powerful that it just wants you just to, let's leave. We're done, we're done. It spas you out and you want to go. First it's saying, let's take a second, hang on. Before we spas the fuck out, hang on. And in that moment, you can think clearly and find that strength out there for you. You know, when you look at the history of the world and you see a lot of hardship that a lot of human beings had been put in and a lot of times against their will, say a gulag or a prison camp or something like this and you hear the stories of things that they had to do in the middle of winter. It's 20 below and they're out building something and they barely have any clothes and they have holes in their shoes and you think to yourself, how are they even surviving in those situations? And I think it's the old adage of if there is a why you will figure out a how. So it's these times that we see what the human spirit is actually made of, but when you're able to flip that around and use something like that to build you up rather than somebody putting you into something like that to break you down. I mean, it's how powerful is that, right? And I don't think anyone gets to truly experience those limits unless, well, it's certainly in today's day unless you're putting yourself in it to get stronger. Right. Well, I know one thing and this is a true statement that I've said several times. A lot of us don't know of a whole nother world that exists. It's on the other side of suffering. Once you break these barriers that you have made for yourself, like the mind is the most powerful thing in the world. In the world. It is so amazing that I used to be a 300 pound guy and I thought that was it. Could barely read, could do anything. And now that what was inside that person was this guy that's in front of you today. That's how scary the mind is. And that's how I started realizing through this journey is that once I got a taste of, wow, man, I haven't even cracked. I haven't even begun to crack what the mind is capable of. And when I started realizing this on the other end of suffering, that's the real growth of life because you realize how the mind processes shit. And I talk about another thing called theory and practice. A lot of people are theorists. They, these smart guys that read these fucking books and shit, man, and they sit down and they tell you what the mind is supposed to do. And a lot of us listen to that shit. It becomes like, this is it, man. This old man who has been studying the mind forever, this is the cap that we have. By being a practitioner, I went out and realized a lot of these guys are so wrong, man, the mind has capabilities that are so unknown. I found that through suffering. And there's a whole other world on the other end of that. And I feel like there's the physical governor that your body kicks in and says, I can't do this. And then there's the mental governor. And a lot of us allow the mental governor to kick in far earlier than necessary. And I've always found that at the moment that that kicks in and you push the other side of it, you actually get this surge of physical energy of feeling that capable of anything. That's super human power. But most of us try to avoid even getting close to the governor. Right. I call that my 40% rule, where like a car has a governor on it. It can go 130. You know, the governor's only going to go 91. And the whole thing about that, it's a true statement. You know, like what you said, our mind wants to protect us. The mind is like, honestly, it has a tactical advantage over us. It knows our deepest, darkest fears or insecurities. It knows where we start to feel, we start getting that doubt creeping. It says, hey, man, you know what, man, maybe this isn't good. Let's go back home to the wife. Let's go back home to the kids. This is not comfortable. So in that moment, the mind directs us. It's a protective mechanism. It saves us for doing bodily harm or it really saves us from discovering that the mind is like, I want to be in charge of you. I don't want you to be in charge of me. So it tells you, let's just stop right here. But once you start breaking through that barrier and start breaking down that governor, the governor that you've put in your mind, because we forget we are in control of our mind. We believe it's the other way around. No, we put in our minds what we should do, but we believe our mind is telling us, it's giving us all this feedback. We have to reprogram it and tell us, no, no, no, we're good. This sucks, but it's okay. And I think one of the remarkable things about the transformation in the beginning was, here after completing over 60 ultramarathons, it seems like you're genetically gifted, miles are no problem, but at the start, getting just over a mile was a struggle. And quit was at the forefront of your mind the entire time. So for our listeners who are like, man, I can't run that. I can't do this physical stuff. That's great mental toughness, but I'm not even meant for the physical side of things. Talk a little bit to us about that mile marker one, mile marker two, to now looking for unlimited miles. Right, well, the first big thing is, once again, it goes back to open-mindedness. If you walk into any kind of event, whether it be physical or mental, if you walk in with already putting that block on your mind, if man, this ain't gonna happen, people go, how did you run a hundred 35 miles to death, bad, and so on? How did you run a hundred miles with no training? Because I went into it not thinking I can't do this, man. I went into it with a strategy. I had an open-mindedness. So until your mind is open to the possibilities that I can do this, you would never be able to do it. Once the mind starts to believe it can be achieved, it then only then does it start to break down tactically how we can do this. Until then, you're gonna always lose. One of the things that we keep hearing recurring and something that we've practiced and we've talked about in our classrooms and on the show a lot is the most successful people are have a very good relationship with the worst parts of themselves where they can have that conversation and they're not hiding from that person, they're gonna work with that person or to get around that person to get that person out of the way rather than pretending that it doesn't exist. And something else that is, is I would think, at least from my own experience, there's always these rationalizations to get you to quit, right? So we have first, you're going out there, it's the quarter mile that's failure, then we're getting to a mile, then we're getting that there's gotta be another conversation with that, the other side of you that says, listen, you went from a 300 pound guy to doing this, we're good, we showed a lot of people. And what's, there's another conversation of, we ain't even begun to finish up what we're doing here. And how many of those conversations, it's like on a daily basis to you have to cast that person aside, let's look out, you're done here. You've done enough damage. It's my turn. Well, it's funny how you say that because it is a true thing. I have so many conversations in my mind because so many times I want to quit. But this is what it is, this is what I figured out. I was so afraid of myself that I had to figure out, I became a master of my mind. People, when you're afraid of something, you have to master it. That's how you start to overcome it. So what I realized, when I get to that point where I want to quit everybody, they get to the point where they want to quit. This is what happens. The mind tells you, let's go home. Let's take a warm shower, let's get some food. This is not right, this is that. If you cannot answer the questions at that moment, because your mind's gonna start giving you all these questions, all these questions. And if you can't answer them, you're going to quit. What I realized when I was going through buds, ranger school, all this 100 mile race, 200 mile races, pull up records. My mind would come creeping in. Like when I was doing 4,030 pull ups at 2,000 pull ups and my hands were ripped open. My mind said, look brother, we've done all these other things. You've proven yourself, you're good. If I didn't have the answer to respond to my mind and say, why I'm here? Why I'm doing this? You will always lose that fight. You have to have the response to what your mind is gonna tell you. And another thing about that is self-talk. A lot of people have like these big four on mental toughness. All that shit is crap about self-talk, visualization. It's true, but the thing about self-talk and all these things, they ask me, what do you think about when you're on mile 100 of a 205 mile run? What are you thinking about when you realize you've run for 24 hours and you have 24 more hours to run and you have another 105 miles, what goes to your mind? What do you say to yourself? I wanna know. A lot of people think self-talk works. It does, but it doesn't work without the suffering before your mind starts saying we need self-talk. So what I tell myself is I go back to the months and years of preparation to get to that day. And I'm telling myself the 3 30 in the morning and I'm looking at my shoes and I wanna go out there and run 30 miles. I have to in that second, in that moment of this self-talk, my mind says you gotta find more, you gotta find more. I once again, calm down, go back into my mind in my cookie jar, I call it. And I have to reflect back on the shit I did to get here. And that becomes my self-talk. Self-talk does not work unless it is real. Most of us lie to ourselves in this self-talk. It doesn't work. It has to be real. It has to be something that you've done to make it really work. Now, obviously gaining that much weight doesn't happen overnight. Bad habits had to form around eating, your interactions with food, obviously your lack of exercise. How did you start to break those old habits so that you didn't revert back to yourself on the couch? It's easy to set a challenge. I wanna reach this goal, I wanna get through hell week. Most of us, even with diet and exercise, can start, get to a point and then we tend to revert back to those old habits. The reason why we go back to old habits is because our goals are too lofty. We're not achieving our goals fast enough. So what happens is, you know what? Aw, man, we're very impatient nowadays. For me, it was good. I had a phone, I was out of this world by myself. It was a race against David Goggins. It wasn't a race against God, I wanna look good for this person or that person. It was me. I gotta change myself. So for me, if I lost five pounds in a week, I got a feeling, I allowed myself to feel proud of that. I didn't look, I gotta lose 106 pounds. I'm like, man, I went from 297, now I'm 292. In one week, man, I'm killing it. We're not proud of ourselves for the small accomplishments. What we need is we need this monstrosity of the thing to happen and say, ah, I did it. No, there's a process that you have to go through and patience is the process. And if we don't have patience after a week, I haven't lost 30 pounds and I'm done. I'm over it. So that's why I found out with people, man, they're not patient enough to realize and to enjoy the moment, not live in it. Just enjoy it. There's no finish line in life, but enjoy that moment. Roger that, man, I lost five. Let me go 10 next week. So that's the whole thing about it. That's how people lose it. You know, something you said there, where you said that you were in this race with yourself and that you didn't have a phone and you weren't connected to anything else and you didn't have anything to deal with, except that other person staring back at you and talking shit. And it was, you went to war against that person. Right. And I was, we were just talking about this and about how important it is. And in order for you to find yourself, we've absolutely, there's certainly about suffering or pushing limits as one aspect of it, but also at detachment from all these other influences that are not, that keep you from dealing with yourself. And obviously we're living in this world today with all this technology that supposedly keeps us connected, but also sort of keeps us separated as well. It's a crazy place. And how are you gonna build a relationship with yourself if you're completely distracted all the time? You know what? Being accepted is one thing that killed me and you have to learn, what do you want in your life? We have so much influence coming at us that we are so lost. We don't know what we wanna do because we don't spend enough time with ourselves. You have to learn to shut off a phone, shut off a computer, shut off a TV. And it's okay to sit in a room by yourself in a chair and just think about you, where I wanna be, where do I see myself tomorrow? The next year, the next year from that. And it takes a lot of self-discipline to be able to do that nowadays because you wanna be so attached to everything. You wanna be so caught up with the world. The world's moving too fast. The world's moving so fast that you're trying to keep up to the point where you lose yourself in the world. So you have to take that time and go to that dark place in your mind and discover who you are. Was there a time in your past where you realized that you've overcome your old self and really truly felt transformed? Or do you feel like it's an endless process that you're still building towards? It's an endless process. Endless process. All that shit that went through my life to get here today, it is tattooed. It is tattooed in my brain. Every day I wake up, I am constantly battling that person that is like, man, you know, back in the day this happened to you, man. You know, like you got called niggers so many times and your dad beat the shit out of you, man. And you couldn't read and the dad going, junior year, all these things start to creep up even now where you're at today. Every day you're having to constantly battle. It's not as bad as it used to be by any means. But that person is still there. That person always lives. And that's the point about you have to continue to always challenge yourself every day. And celebrating those small wins along the way, right? Those small incremental steps also are that fuel. So you have the suffering, you have the past that you're running from. And you have these small moments where, hey, I went 1.3 miles today, two days ago I was sitting on the couch and not even putting on shoes to go out. Right. What are those small victories for you today? Sitting the other side here, right? Because now the feats of strength and physical are just incredible. They're literally, the listeners are gonna be going on YouTube watching this to see it for themselves. Well, now there are really no small victories now for me because what happens is once you transform yourself and even though I'm still, I'm not running from myself, I'm constantly facing myself. I'm constantly battling myself. I'm not running from them anymore. I used to, but now I'm constantly battling them. So now what happens is once you get to port in your life where you're able to be on a podcast or be on a TV show and tell everybody how fucked up you are, I will answer any question you want about me. Anything I did, anything bad, good, ugly, I will tell you. When you get to that point in your life, that's where your real journey begins. And you no longer have to have a small victory to keep you going. You now realize what your purpose in life is and you realize, oh, this shit's just part of it. But at first you need all these different tactics to keep you going because you haven't figured it out yet. Once you figure out that you're in a race amongst billions of people that live in this world, you're in a race by yourself. You have a purpose and it's your purpose, not everybody else's purpose. It is your purpose and only your purpose and it's your race. So then you're like, hey, man, I'm doing my thing. I'm doing the best of my ability. What's next? There's no longer these small increments to get through life because once you figure out why you're here, it just becomes a process. You know, it goes with something I, AJ and I were talking about this earlier and it was the video of you getting the award from the VFW was posted and obviously it choked me up. I'm sure it choked AJ up. And there was something that you said in there that was, that I just, I loved and I just, I just don't, obviously we don't see enough of it anymore. And what it was, was that there's the paraphrase that a lot of people who live in this world who don't know what they're doing in life, what's going on, they're asked from their elbow and they got nothing and they're confused. And they don't know what it's about. But it's about doing it for the guy next to them. Right. And with so much of all this other influence, it just seems that people or their values aren't being held up to any sort of standards. And so now they're become wishy washy on even what they stand for as people. Well, of course we have anxiety going through the roof and suicides going through the roof because if you don't have any sort of foundation to stand on, then of course you're gonna be sitting through anxiety. And something as simple as do it for the man next to you, do it for mankind, do it for humankind. Right. It's fantastic. I mean, would you be able to speak a bit about that? Yeah, that was a moment for me the VFW where I got the Americanism Award. And what you saw there for me, it shocked me also. I got choked up, teared up. I was trying to thank my mom. And what happened was all the stuff that you all have heard about my life growing up, it's at the surface. That's just real, you know? And at that moment, it flashed through my head about the journey I had to go through to get to that point to do that. And along that journey, I figured out myself and the biggest trophy I'll ever get in my entire life, like I turned on a book deal, which we'll talk about soon, the biggest trophy that I ever got in my entire life was me, was really figuring out me. And when I was up on that stage, I realized that. I realized it's not about money. It's not about fame. It's not about being accepted by your peers and everybody else. It's about figuring out who I am and being happy with who the fuck I am. Even though I'm gonna be judged for all these things, being able to put a middle finger up to everybody and say, this is David Goggins. And to get to that point, it felt great. And that was all about, honestly, we have to give back. We have to be able to go through our journeys in life, figure out who we are and help the person beside you. Figure that shit out. Figure out how they can do that themselves. Well, let's go get into that a bit. So, I believe you're my 44? 43. 43. All the records, everything that you've been through, all the physical feats, and now we're on a new chapter of the book. Of course, you're now, you could probably say that you're the new it guy on the internet. Everyone wants that. We were a thrill when you wanted to come on the show and everyone wants some of your time. And everyone wants to get something from you, perhaps a little bit of you can rub off on us, that sort of thing, and with good reason. And so we're in this new world and these new feats for yourself. So if you'd like to talk about what brought you to write the book and to go in this direction now at this time. Well, as you know, I'm a serious introvert and very afraid of people. I got judged so much growing up that this is uncomfortable for me. All these podcasts, that's why I post once a week. I don't, people are ugly, people are nasty. They make me want to choke the shit out of them. And they're just nasty people. So I stay away from them. But the one thing I realized why I wrote the book is honestly, I have a story to tell as we all have a story to tell. And what I realized on my journey was a lot of us don't believe that we can achieve the impossible. And along my journey, I started realizing, man, I gotta fucking tell some people about this shit, man. Like I discovered something that some people have, but they don't even fucking know all of us have it. But along this way, I wasn't like I said, I wasn't a theorist, I became a practitioner. And I was like, my God, I'm busting down so many barriers of like I've learned disability, okay? But I'm catching up with everybody. I figured that out. I figured out all these negative things in my life that were keeping me in this hole. I'm like, I gotta tell people, man, that hang on a second, man, you can fucking achieve the absolute impossible. You don't need great parents. You don't need like a private school. You don't need to have this humongous GPA and all that sort of shit. What you need is the one thing I talked about in my book, which is straight up brutal work ethic. You have to be willing to outwork everybody in the world. And that's the hard part. That's the hard part. This isn't like some five step process where you can do these five fucking steps, you're gonna end up with this magical world. Nah, I'm basically teaching you how to callous over your victim's mentality. I'm teaching you how to, like I did 67,000 pull-ups and training for the pull-up record. I was seriously callous in my hands to protect them. What I'm trying to do with people is teach them how to find more of themselves to where they empower themselves. I'm all about the underdog. So that's what the book's all about, man. It's all about having that step process and I had to share this with people. Well, I also feel, and personally struggling with social anxiety and introversion myself, the hardest part of all of it is being vulnerable enough to admit the abuse, submit the past. Most of us don't want other people to know that and that's the hardest part to open up and be that vulnerable. When did that start to bubble to the surface for you and you start to see vulnerability as a strength? Well, worse doesn't make me, I had to stop giving a fuck about people. That was the biggest thing. I had to stop caring what people thought about me. I realized that everybody's fucked up. That's the one thing I realized. I walked around and I put these people on a fucking pedestal. Everybody was better than me. So I can't tell you anything about me because you're gonna judge me and I'm gonna feel even worse than what I am. What I realized, once I calm my mind down and sat back and looked at how jacked up this world is, once you realize that you are not alone, everybody that's talking to you about how jacked up you are, the only thing they've done better than you is they've hidden their fucked up world better than you have. That's all they've done. So once I realized that, if you wanna sit back at like for instance, there's all these things that are on TV and we have all these news people judging people who fuck up in life. Yeah, they made big mistakes, but that person who was judging you on TV, I guarantee you that that news person is saying I'm glad that my shit didn't come out. But I'm gonna judge the hell out of you. I know that about people. So if you wanna sit back and judge how jacked up I was and how messed up my life was, Merry Christmas, go for it, have a good time. But I'm smiling at you right now, knowing you have a secret that you're not willing to share. It gives you a lot of power when you're able to go on a podcast this big and say, hey, tell me, I'll tell you anything you wanna know cause I no longer care. And that is a lot of power in that to be able to put your life on a billboard for the whole world to see and say, judge it, man. Judge it. Like just me talking about it makes me feel good. And that's another thing about it. When you are willing to talk about how jacked up you are, the strength, that big rock that you carry, it just starts to come off you. It just starts to come off. That's why I do it so often. I'm like, hey, man, I'll tell you anything you wanna know. I'm tired of being afraid. I'm tired of not telling you shit. I'm tired of lying about how good I'm not, you know? And in prepping for this interview, I was hanging out with my girlfriend Amy listening to part of the Joe Rogan episode. And what was so remarkable to both of us is most people who get into the motivational coaching space, they just wanna celebrate their victories and show how awesome and amazing they are and paint themselves as the best. And you unabashedly admit that you're not the best long distance runner. I'm not the best guy at pull-ups, but I'm gonna push myself beyond what I deem is the best. And through that process, come out the other side and earn everyone's respect. The motivation when people are losing, all these people who come out here and talk about how great they are, and I see it all the time, makes me sick, man. Get real with yourself. People cannot relate to you, man. You are un-fucking-relatable. When you come out here and say, hey, man, I'm the baddest motherfucker to ever live. Okay, great. Well, what am I gonna learn from you? You learn from people who are willing to tell you, this is where I started from. This is how much I fell on my fucking ass. This is how bad I used to really be. I still have those moments, because why you're human? We're all jacked up, man. We're all jacked up. And that's what makes my story relatable. I'm willing to let you in to see I'm decently successful now, but I didn't come out like this, man. I didn't come out, that's the story, is you have to give people just a little bit of hope. There's no hope when they see greatness in you everywhere. You have to be able to get yourself down to a level of check it out, man. There's hope for you. That's what I'm trying to give you, just a little bit. And obviously the pain you went through, the suffering and these feats of physical strength, this idea that the body can always heal and the mind can always heal. These calluses can be built. So whether it's 200 plus miles, whether it's your hands or dog meat from doing the pull ups, your hands are healed. That's right. Your mind is healed. That's right. And we have this ability inside of us, most of us go through life, never even scratching the surface of it. Right. What was the physical healing process like after that first real physical bout for you where you went through, whether it was Hell Week, I don't know what on the scale of what you've done to this point, going through the list? Well, I thought it was my third Hell Week that I went through. When I got through with that first 100 mile race that I did around that one mile track that I didn't even prepare for it, I was considerably, it was horrible. And I'll never forget, I found such peace and beauty. And I got, I was in the worst pain in my fucking life. And I got done and my wife pulled the car up on the, my ex-wife pulled the car up on this little lawn and I got in the back of it and I got up the stairs. I'm not gonna go through the whole story, but I remember laying in the tub and she put the shower on me and I ran 101 miles in like 19 hours. And I was like peeing dirt out of me. And I'm sitting there and I'm jackhammering and my body is just the most broken it's ever been even to this day. And this feeling came over me. Call it crazy if you want, but very few people I guarantee you've ever felt this before to push themselves so far outside of what they thought was even possible, even for me. I laid in that tub and I didn't want it to go away. I had drained myself of every bit of strength, energy I had and it was the best feeling I had in my life. All that pain, it was confirmation. It was confirmation that I had gone through a crucible and I had figured out another level of David Goggins, a level that I thought was humanly impossible for anybody to do. When I was at mile 70 and shit and pissed all over myself and had 30 more miles to go and I was damn near dead. And I was able to go 31 more miles. In that process of the next 31 more miles, I found out more about myself in that 31 miles than I ever have in my entire life. The conversations, the mental blocks, the roadblocks, everything horrible, it was just feeding at me like light speed, get the fuck out of here, man. Like, but I was able to figure out different tactics. And when I finally got done with that and I laid in that tub and it was over, the feeling of my God, man, you just really discovered a whole new world, a whole new part of the brain that guaranteed very few people have. So it's a feeling I can't even describe. And with the success of Jesse's book, Living with the Seal, obviously fame came knocking at your door, everyone wanted your story, publishers came to you, okay, when can we write your book? You chose a different path to self-publish. Well, on that thing right there it didn't do much for me. So the book Living with the Seal, my name wasn't in it and I didn't even know really, I knew it was being written but I had nothing to do with the book. So all that came to me much later, but yeah. Yeah, that's how you appeared on the map once you figured out that you were the seal and people wanted to hear your story. Obviously everything you do is well thought out. There's a plan in place, there's a strategy behind it. You've now chose the path to self-publish this book. We got a copy of the manuscript we've been digging in enjoying the backstory that we haven't heard on some of these other shows because everyone wants to talk about the physical side of things. What made you decide to go that route in sharing your story? Well, I sat back and I had the top five people come at me, top five publishing houses and they're down to the last two and they're offering $300,000. I'm a first time, first time author and I decided to go with one of them and $300,000 for a guy at me. I'm sitting back, you know, that's pretty good money. So a few days before I was going to sign the contract, I sat back, talked to my fiance, my family and everybody's like, you know, hey, this is good, this is great, whatever. But I started thinking about my life. I started thinking about everything that I've gone through in my life. Everything I had gone through and had a chance to reflect and that's one thing I never did in my life long enough is have time to reflect. I was always, what's next, what's next, what's next, what's next, what's next. Now that I'm retired and you have a lot of time to look back on what you've done, where you started, where you're at now and I said, you know what, it's just not for sale. $300,000 isn't even a fraction of enough money to sell this, so I decided not to sign it and I self-published, I pissed a lot of people off. I paid. And I said, I'm not signing this, I'm gonna self-publish and that's kind of how it came to be. I took that time to reflect and I'd rather not make a fucking dime. I wrote this book and that's honest to God's truth. I am fine with the trophy I have in my mind. And who is this book for? Who listening is gonna be the most impacted by this book? I'm all about, it's not about the underdog so much. I think we're all an underdog. I think the top CEO on the planet Earth still has that doubt. I don't give a fucking where you're from. Colby Bryant, Michael Jordan, the best on the planet. We're all underdogs. Whether you're an underdog because you put yourself there to be hungry or you're just a real-life underdog. We're all an underdog. And so this is about the mind and people discovering the mind, their own mind. And one thing I know is we all have an equation. We all have an equation like, I'll talk about 3.14 is pi. There's different equations to figure out different kind of mathematical problems. We as human beings are mathematical problems. I cannot give you a book for every fucking body in this world. That's why my book, even though it's one book is tailored to the individual. It's not like you do these five steps, you're good. No, I'm helping you figure out your fucking equation because it's different. My equation is different than your equation. What's gonna make you tick? What's gonna make you go the distance? What's gonna make you go to a spot in hell and say, I love this spot. It's okay. That's what this book does. It helps you figure out your 3.14. Helps you figure out your fucking mathematical equation and say, oh, because once you figure out the equation in any math problem, you no longer fail, man. You got it figured out. So in coming out of here, which you have a big publicity run, the book's coming out. You got a bunch of podcasts to go on. Thank you for coming on ours. With that comes a lot of new things. It's for such a no-nonsense guy you have to deal with social media now. And I was having a vision of you having to deal with it. We talk about it's detriment and how it is just nonsense and noise, but of course, you wanna reach as many people as you can with this book and everything that's going on. So I was kinda curious of dealing with social media. I know that you're on it. We were talking about this earlier. Do you have a discipline that's like, okay, well for two hours every night, I guess I'll get on deal with this stupid thing and talk to these people who have reached out or what is your approach to that? Well, my approach is every Monday, you're gonna get one post from me a week. And I take about maybe an hour to hour and a half after, so I'll post it, I'll do it, and then I get away from it. I'm gone. Here's your post. And I make sure that every single post is not about me. So this shit ain't about me, man. I'm about you figuring out you. Some people take it personal, some people get your little butt hurt. This is about you figuring out, your self-talk has to change. The most important conversation you ever have is the one you have with your fucking self. You walk around with it all day, you act on it pretty soon, good or bad. I want you to change who you are. So let's you look at it after about an hour or two, I'll come back and start answering a few of these questions. Some people say, hey, how you do this? How you do that? Maybe an hour and a half, two hours I'll answer it. And I'm done. I'm off, because why? I'm still, I'm still chipping away at David Goggins every single day. If I spend so much time being occupied by that, I cannot chip away at what's important. What's important is I'm still figuring out this different things. Yeah, I got the equation figured out, but now the real journey has begun. So I'm still chipping away at life. And Johnny and I have started to really throw ourselves into the training for the race and really pushing ourselves physically for a large chunk of my life. The physical was not that important. Right. It was average at everything, not really concerned about hitting the gym, certainly didn't care about what other people thought about the way that I looked physically, because I was average. I've now come out the other side and we talk about this all the time, you know, that Adorphan rush after completing the run. That feeling you get after crushing your PR in the gym, pushing yourself beyond that mental governor that we all have. What are your thoughts on people who are unsure about their own physical strength? Do you feel that everyone should push themselves physically and that's a really important part of making you who you were? I think pushing yourself physically is the number one factor of life. That is the true spot where you can really dive deep into life's about self-discipline, is about self-discipline. We tend to do the things that are easy. And that is, it builds no mental toughness. It builds no mental hardening. It builds nothing. When you work out, working out is where you can build that the fastest. Because it's a constant, it gives you instant feedback. Instant, yeah, you may not lose the weight you want to real fast, but the discipline it takes, it transfers over to all aspects of your life. It's not people, man, why are you always working out? Stop, stop looking at that way. This is the foundation of life. When you look in the mirror, every morning we all look in the mirror to get ready to go to work, to go anywhere. The first thing you see is your reflection. If you don't like what you see in the morning, you lost the war already. It's not about even liking what you see. It's about looking in the mirror and you may start, man, I feel different. That reflection maybe not, that reflection's not everything. It's a feeling you're supposed to get. So you have to, in life, once you leave your house, the war begins. In your house, you have some control. And that reflection in that mirror, you have to control that reflection in the mirror. That's how you start your day. If you leave your house feeling like, okay, I can fight, I've established the mentality to fight. And all that comes from working out. It's not just from, you can't find that in the office. And what we've discovered and chatted about on the show with a lot of our guests is morning and nighttime rituals to prepare yourself mentally for the day, for that war outside the door. Obviously you're controlling your environment in the morning and same with night. I think, especially when it comes to feats of strength and physical ability, you gotta recharge, you gotta recover. So how you wind down at night and getting a full night's rest scientifically has proven to change everything, physically, mentally, emotionally. What are those habits you built up around your morning and nighttime routine? Well, my morning routine is every day I get up and run. Every single day. Because why, I hate that the most. So that is where I- You share that feeling. Yes, I hate that the most. So you have to do something that sucks every day. Because why, once you overcome the suck, oh, now you're powerful. You've overcome yourself already. So now you're ready to battle. I go to the gym about four times a week. But my biggest thing I do is my nighttime routine. I stretch out anywhere from two to four hours every night for the last five, it used to be a lot longer than that. And I talked about in my book why I started doing this thing. But I had, through my whole life, as you see, I was using my fight or flight muscle. I was under severe stress as a child, growing up, my job, whatever. A lot of stress. Just sitting down right now, Raj using our psoas muscle, your hip flexor muscle. And I give you a two second on that. That muscle attaches to your T12. And about five or six years ago, I got really, really sick. Doctors would give me all kinds of hormones. Take this, take this, take this. And it's in the book real good, so I won't go deep into it now. But I laid it back and I literally said, you know what, I'm dying. The doctors can't figure out what's wrong with me. My blood tests were coming back fine. I just said, I can't even run a block. I went from running 205 miles, I came running a block. I made my bed, sitting there. And I started realizing I had these humongous knots on my hip flexors and back in my head. And I said, I'm just done. So I started slowly stretching out. I couldn't do anything. Over a period of a couple of years, I got off this medication, that medication. I was on like 15, I was on several medications. Now I'm on one. And honestly, what I believe, no doctor has said, this is what happened to you. I was literally so tight, I was cutting off blood supply in different places in my organs. The more it opened up my body. So now I went from running 830 mile on a training run to now running a 715 to 7 minute mile on a training run. At the same heart rate. And it's not because I'm trained any different. It's just because my body, my body's opened up. It's a lot more blood flow. So every night I stretch out and it's truly, I used to be wound so fucking tight. Like I couldn't sit in this chair for this long. I was like, I could get out of here, man. Maybe I go. It's totally changed my whole perspective of life. It's changed everything. So stretching out, yoga, all those things has put me in a whole different state of mind. And I'm the healthiest I've been in my entire life, mentally and physically. With everything that you've accomplished and you still have a lifetime to go. Right. Is there something that you want to be known for? The one thing that you want to stand out through all of these accomplishments and be remembered for? Honestly, I honestly want to be considered one of the hardest men to walk the planet earth in the history of the world. And what I mean by hard, I'm not talking about the guy who just the most pull ups, the most sit ups runs the most. Just a person who's able to overcome any adversity in front of them to figure out a way. Hardness isn't about all this physical shit, man. Yeah, it helped me get to where I'm at. But all I was doing in the whole process, the process wanted to be ripped. It wanted to walk around my shirt off. That wasn't it. I knew through the physical challenges, through the physical suffering, my mind was getting stronger. I was literally doing that for a reason. I had a weak mind. All the rest has happened to come with it. I was trying to strengthen the mind to handle all the judgment that's passed on me, perceived and not. Sometimes you make it up in your own head. You know, I just want to be able to handle all of that. Everything, physical, mental. I want to be perceived as that. Like an old school barbarian, old school guy that's like, God, man, nothing can hurt the guy, which is why the book is titled, can't hurt me. I want people to have that mantra in their life. Take that with you. Take it. Everywhere you go in life. And if you believe that and you work towards that, callus in your mind, strengthen yourself, can't hurt me as strong. In any situation like Nas and Buzz, they beat the shit out of you. I'd be the first one to get them to say, can't hurt me, motherfucker. And they were beating the hell out of me. But you say that enough to you. False motivation becomes fucking real motivation after a while. What's the next big challenge for you? What's the next thing you're tackling? Honestly, the next big challenge right now is what I'm doing right now. Like, when I was in sixth grade, I started real bad, severely bad. Fifth, sixth grade, fourth grade, horrible. See, like my hair would fall out, white splashes over my skin, horrible, horrible anxiety. So, me talking about myself as much as I am on stage, on a podcast, I'm still overcoming, you're still battling, because it's comfortable for me to say, I'm off a soda meeting and don't talk to me, I'm good. Go back to being my hermit. This is very uncomfortable. So I'm constantly coming outside my comfort zones and doing this stuff. Now sharing my story with people as much as I can. And do you do any coaching of clients in terms of physical or mental, obviously motivational speaking, opens up these opportunities to take on one-on-one or group coaching clients? So I do take on clients, but a select few. Cause what I realized is, I'm not a cookie cutter type of guy. I'm not here to take your money. I don't, you know, I'm here to help you. If you're coming in to work with a guy like me, who knows that you have to have thick skin to get better. You have to call yourself out. If you're fat and you're fucked up, I want to hear that. I don't want to hear you tap dancing around shit. So I don't take on many clients because when you work with me, we're going to get to the root of the fucking problem. And a lot of people don't want to go there. They don't want to talk about the childhood. They don't want to talk about their path. They don't want to get to the root of the problems. And then they go, why am I not getting better? Cause there's a lot of shit in there you haven't dealt with, brother. You know, people go to the gym, like for instance, going through any kind of special operations school. These people go to the gym, they get big, they get jacked, they can run fast, all that shit. But the only thing they're doing is they're coding over the mind. All you're doing is building a bigger, stronger quitter. Your mind hasn't gotten any stronger cause you haven't gone back in there and dealt with shit. So second adversity comes like, my God, I'm so fucking fit. What's wrong? Your mind is still soft. So I work on the mind. What's the application process like to work with you? Well, speaking. That sounds like hell weak. Speaking on, on that application process. So, you know, Jesse's been out there in his book and we know from his perspective of seeing you and him thinking of how, and he could give it his story of how you guys met and what he was thinking when he had saw you. But we don't know your side of it of what Jesse coming up to you and talk to you and asking, I don't even know if that was the plan at first, but what you must have been thinking with this, this crazy guy who's out there with the circus running around in this ring. Yes, Sue. The chair and the trainers. Well, that's the one big thing about there is, and I'll answer your question is, but what you said, you know, I live with this guy for a couple, you know, a few weeks. This is a lifestyle. You can't temporarily dive into it, sprinkle it around, sample it out and roll out. This is something, man, that you have to acquire as a part of your everyday grind. But when Jesse came up to me after this race, I was, so like back then I was very like, don't talk to me, mother fucker type of person. It was very weird, you know? Cause my life, especially then, I didn't know any soft. And I looked at everything in his life as very like, you can't get hard, man. It's impossible. Why? Because you have your refrigerator in your mind. It's so full. You've arrived. It's hard to take a person that's arrived, take him in the fucking, bring him down to the fucking sewer with me and say, okay, now we're gonna live. Now we're gonna figure out. So imagine that guy who has, you know, maids, drivers, masseuses, chefs. And I'm taking this guy and say, okay, man, we're not gonna live in hell. It was very, it's tough. Yeah. And the difference being, he knew, count down the days, 23, 22 days, and I'm back to live in the life. And see, it's hard for me, and this is no cut on anybody. I had to mature a lot. Not everybody's David Goggins. It's hard for me to respect people who are able to come in to that world and leave. Sure. This is a fucking lifestyle, man. And people wonder, why am I not achieving more? It's because once you, all of us, once we achieve something, we celebrate for a long years, fucking time. And we wonder, why don't I have drive anymore? Where's it all at? If you don't develop a routine of suffering, and suffering not like go out and kill yourself every day, it's being uncomfortable. Yeah. That keeps you hungry every day. If you live in your victories for so long and say, I'm gonna go challenge myself for 30 days or for two weeks or run this one marathon, and it ends, I did one marathon, okay? That's why it leaves you. It leaves you because you haven't set up the next obstacle. Obstacles is how you grow. You must continue to have friction. Friction is where growth is at. With no friction, there's no growth. I love that. No growth. So where can we find the book? Where can we pick up a copy and apply for this coaching? Those listeners, do you feel they have it in them? Well, everything with Can't Hurt Me the book, the audio, everything for Can't Hurt Me is on Amazon. So you go to Amazon, it's just a book about the mind, better than yourself, finding that 3.14, finding your percentage, finding your equation. And removing the theory. Removing the theory. And bringing it into practice. Theory, we cannot listen to theorists. So what theorists do is they take a hundred people and they study the normal people of the world. They're all studies. There's a whole bunch of people outside the normal that haven't done studies on. They haven't done studies on the people who are seriously great, who are seriously great. They take studies off of normal people. You cannot live in that normal mindset. You must be your best on your worst days. And how you do that is you cannot think of a normal mindset. You cannot have a normal mindset. I love it. Thank you. Thank you very much. It's been a fantastic conversation. I appreciate you taking on this challenge because sharing this stuff and this viewpoint, right? It's easy to get the trophies these days. It's easy to be coddled. There's not enough people speaking the real truth that you suck and you gotta do shit that sucks to get better. And that message, we're happy to spread and it has impacted both of us. It's why we took on the challenges that we continue to take on half marathon. We're gonna shoot for marathon next and let's keep moving because what else is there to do in life? That's it, man. There's nothing else to do. Life is one big head game. It's one big mind game. And it's only one person playing it yourself. So you gotta learn to win the mind game. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Fantastic.