 Um, so I'm, I'm wondering about, uh, the title egos and without permission. That's one part of it, which is really interesting. Um, why the without permission. And then the second part, and maybe we should separate these two out into two, but the second part is moral psychology of iron man's ethics. The concept of moral psychology is, um, you know, a, let's talk about that. Cause it's not, I don't think it's, it's obvious what that means. Sure, sure. It's a, uh, it's a term that moral philosophers use and that it's, it's gotten a lot of attention, the subject or the subfield of moral psychology in the last 20 years, let's say in academic philosophy, but it's base, it's not that exotic. It's basically concerned with the interplay of a person's psychology and they're over express beliefs, you know, you've got your convictions, whatever they might be, religious, non-religious, altruistic, egoistic, you've got what you believe, and then you've got some subconscious also largely by psychological, you can think subconscious beliefs, premises, inclinations that you might not be as fully aware of, but how those can affect the way you practice what you preach or what you believe. And that's what I was interested in exploring in this book in terms of egoism, um, because I think it's one thing to let's say convert to egoism, or, you know, a lot of people will say, I didn't convert. I just read Ayn Rand and she, she articulated everything I already believe, but either way, right? The thought is, my thought is, look, it's one thing to expressly endorse the ethics of rational egoism and the virtues, honesty, productive, you know, the whole thing. It's another thing to actually live that and live it consistently. And I think that many, many of us, God knows this is true of me and a lot of people I know, even when you've been an objectivist for a long time, there, there's a lot of baggage from the way you were raised and what you believed. So it's not enough to endorse egoism. I think you have to do a lot of active detox work. You need to, let me throw a few, a few, you know, you need to clean out the closets, you need to weed, you know, however you want to think of it. Um, altruism is sticky. Yep. Intrinsicism and intrinsicist idea of what morality is all about. That's sticky, I think, for a lot of people. And you can find, you know, just a quick example. You can find yourself torn like, Oh no, I really should do this thing that my family wants me to do. Now, of course, if you think of that from one level, it's like, well, wait a minute, if I really don't think this is in my interest, I shouldn't do it. Yet you feel so torn on, I mean, a lot of us, and then you feel guilty about feeling torn and so on, right? But the point is like these hooks might be in there and again, often subconscious or you don't even realize they're there. So what I wanted to do in the book is expose some of these to address more the living of egoism. Not just egoism on paper and theory or in the book, but to discuss some of these sort of interstitial or sort of in between ways in which some of our inclinations can get in the way of our practicing egoism as consistently as we'd like so that we can benefit the most. Okay, I've just gone on a long time there. So no, that's good. And so how much to what extent is the solution in a sense of undoing the baggage or getting rid of the baggage, you don't undo baggage, getting rid of the baggage? How much of that is psychology versus philosophy? Oh, that's a good interesting question. Well, I think it's because you can imagine in a national society, we would go to psychologists to help us to some extent get rid of this. And I think they could help us. But I think they could help us by helping us identify very consciously. Oh, yeah, that's a mistake. You're still making Tara, but it's a mistake. So I do think philosophy's got to be the driver here or your conscious beliefs, but again, it's one thing to notice, oh, that's really stupid. And it's another thing to find yourself never tempted in that direction. Again, it's like, I wish all I had to do was recognize, oh, that's really dumb or that's a leftover of altruism. And then it just vanishes, right? If only. So I do think, you know, good psychologists, and there are some, you know, good psychologists can help us notice these things more like when we're falling into certain traps based on just the way we were raised. And it's not always just a function of altruism or just a function of intrinsicism. I mean, maybe you absorbed certain ideas about yourself, how good you are on things your parents often said or others around you often said, and you might have formed some really unhealthy sort of self-identifications or self-conception. And you know, I mean, we all know what psychological, like what many psychological problems are. And again, the general thought is those can get in the way of our being as fully rationally selfish as we'd like to be again, so that we can get the most out of it. Yeah. How much is this is about aligning your emotions with your ideas and getting them kind of in sync? It is definitely somewhat about that. I don't think it's just that, but emotions are sometimes some of what, I mean, they often exert a strong pull on us away from what we really fully consciously think we should do. So, I mean, one of the things I play up in one of the chapters of the book is the importance of introspection. I mean, that has just become clearer and clearer and clearer to me over the years. And I mean, anybody who's heard some of my lectures in the last few years has probably already heard me extoll introspection. And I'm certainly not the only one. I mean, Gina Gorlin talks about it. I mean, many of our psychological people and others. I mean, Don Watkins, Ben Zwanger, but it's so, it's so important to try to get to know yourself and a lot of that has to do with knowing your emotions and what's really going on under them and knowing your emotional tendencies and why do I tend to get so nervous about this? Or why am I so intimidated by that? And whatever, like the more we can understand our emotions to sort out what's right-minded, you know, like, which of their premises or sound and which aren't and where they come from, the more we can exert control. So again, I do think it's got to be your belief, your conscious beliefs and your philosophy doing the driving. But, you know, we live, we live fast too. Right. It's like, you know, and you have emotional reactions in a hurry and, and, you know, what's automatized. I mean, this is part of why these even wrong-headed ideas have such a grip on us because they're so automatized. So definitely unpacking some identifying some of your emotions and what's good and bad about them. You know, but another thing that I do now, this isn't exactly an emotion, but I have a whole chapter in the book on desires. Love desires. I love my desires. I love the things I desire and I love desires. And that's what I'll actually be talking about primarily. I'm giving it at Ocon this summer. I'm giving a lecture on the book, but it's really going to focus mostly on the chapter on desires. So one of the things I do play up in the book is the importance of desire and getting in touch with your desires and kind of like allow, like realizing how vital they are to selfishness. So how do you differentiate between desire, emotion and value? Oh, boy, I should have reread the chapter. Sorry. Start. No, no, no. I mean, a value should be a really considered. So it should be certainly more than an emotion or an emotional urge or tendency or even a desire. I might really desire something or some moment, you know, but it might not be the best thing for me and so on. So you can't go just by even desires, you know, or emotions. A value should be an all things considered full context, rational. Yeah, that'll be good for me. For life, go for that. I'm sorry for life. Yeah, yeah, right. I've got that kind of assessment. Now, not all my emotions are pro life or based on very realistic impressions or assessments of things, nor one's desires necessarily. So yeah, we've got to differentiate these things. But I do think there's a the emphasis on rational egoism. You know, it's got to be reasoned. Egoism sometimes leads people to think that the safest way to be rational is to be anti-desire or at least to keep desires at bay. And that I just think is is really mistaken and really unhealthy. And part of what I want to do is liberate desires, you know, because ultimately life is for having fun. And there are even great passages from I read the Leonard Peacock that basically say that, that give you permission, not that we need permission in a book called Egoism, you know. So I'm joking here, folks, but, you know, to give you permission to feel what you desire and, you know, think about it and go for it.