 We have Kevin Stefani, Susan Terry, Allison Cornwall. Any agenda revisions? No. Okay. I think the only one then is to move mediation up to immediately after the 1.0s. Public comments and correspondence? I haven't received any. No. Great. A point of time keeper. Anyone care if you need a time keeper? Thank you. Great. So should we go ahead and approve the minutes just quickly? I wasn't at that meeting so I can't make a motion. I saw one change. So I guess we should make a motion and then talk about it real quick. Thank you. Okay. I move to accept the minutes, approve the minutes of January 11th, 2018. Okay. Second. Okay. The only change I saw was, let's see, Kevin, you were listed as Miss Strackern. Where was that? In guests? Nope. It was a comment on the top of page three. Miss Strackern should instead read Mr. Stefani. Any other revisions? Did you get that, Kristi? Yep. Yep. That's actually page two in the list of minutes. Page three of the packet. That's a revision of just kind of the principal's report. The report to administration. If there is a sort of a lengthy conversation within that, that I just think might be it would have been helpful to have captured some of the top line points of it. But. So the suggestion to expand further in the minute taking, is that? Yeah, I guess, you know, where appropriate. Other thoughts? All those in favor of approving? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? I'm sorry. I understand. Okay. Susan. Wonderful. Can you join us? So, yeah. So maybe, Chris, would you like to just briefly introduce what you've told Susan and where we are with this? Sure. I had a conversation with Susan and to see if you'd come and speak with us about facilitating a community interaction and explore with us and her what might be the best way to go about it. And I'm facing not a lot in that I think she wanted to really gauge the different board members how they thought this process should unfold and really see what her recommendations for us might be. She told us, I think it was a cold chest or a militant. I had a very difficult conversation that worked out well, I thought. You did the community conversation around the sexual harassment of the team and then later won on the lease. So you're used to difficult conversations. We just so introduce yourself to us and the members of the audience. I'm Susan Terry. I live in the greater North Danville area and I am a consultant, trainer, facilitator, mediator. All the same set of skills, just different job definitions for each particular one. And I work a lot in community conversations and dialogue and do also a lot of work with teams. They used to call team building until the term got so annoying that we had to change it. That sort of thing. And I tend to not bring off the shelf solutions for things. I kind of have to see what works for each particular situation. So what would you like from us? What's useful? Any questions? I'll start because I was, I think, one of the last board members to kind of get on board with us with supporting any type of community forum mediation. So from my standpoint, in June we had a really thoughtful discussion where we heard from some people in the community that they felt that there had been a wound and that they didn't have a lot of information about what had happened. But all of a sudden our school was in the news. There were rumors going around and not a lot of answers. And that that left people with a lot of different feelings of hurt and frustration. And they wanted to be heard and they wanted a healing to happen. So hearing a lot of those words, I said, well, I guess I could get on board with something that sounded like that. And I hope, and I think the whole, the entire board had really hoped that it could happen in the summer. And that didn't happen for a lot of reasons. And so my concern sitting here now is that I am not really clear if the hurt that happened here in June and was so needed to heal in June, what the process would look like to go back and heal. And we have since then started a new school year. We have a new school leader. And I would really want to keep it to the areas of hurt from June. So it's happened over like summer and not prior to that? Over the last school, the 2017, no. 2016 school year. I did the recording today for the budget. So it is very hard to go back when I have been going forward all day. I would really, in a way that didn't shut people down, but there's a really big difference between the lack of communication that people felt, the issues that were going on around the school, the communication that did go out, and people's interpretation of that communication. Those are all things that I think absolutely some healing can certainly be done. I think that is, that's the issue that for me I voted on in June. And it would be very different to come in and discuss things of like the current school year because there's a process for discussing things with, you know, with teachers and people who are currently in the school. This is about the board's responsibilities and where the board didn't serve the community last year. And I really want to keep it to that just so that we are very clearly still following the communication procedure that we have in place. So I would, let's see something where you can get a sense of what needs to be done for our community. I think that there is a sense that there has really been no accounting of what actually happened and why it happened the way it did. And it was raw. I think it was an emotionally raw and difficult time. And I think it still impacts the school climate. I think things have moved on somewhat as life does, but there's still an undercurrent that I think needs should be addressed through this form. And to the extent that basically just what used to be a fairly cohesive community back together in a cohesive way where parents work together well for the great good of our students and our community, I think some of that has been lost because of the events of last year. And so I would like to at least address that to the extent that it is possible to do so and so that folks in our community and it is its community involvement don't feel that they have been shut off. And it's like, you know what, be quiet. That happened last year. It's over and done with when it's really not over and done with. So I think that there's a revealing or a disclosure of that underlying tension that that will be part of any healing process, I think. So. Yeah. As you Caroline have pointed out that you were probably the last to come on board. I think I started, you know, calling for a community forum or something along those lines back in early January of last year. And probably was there's no one around this table that wanted it more than me. But I'm conflicted right now. And I'm conflicted because for a variety of reasons. One is something that Caroline you alluded to of, you know, what is the intent? What is the focus, you know, looking at last year versus this year? And, you know, how do we, how do we in some ways go, you know, how do we separate the two and is it possible to separate the two in some ways? Because where people may be feeling things based on changes that are being made, those changes are being made as a result of things that transpired last year or led to what transpired last year. And so as much as I sort of agree with that idea, I'm just wondering how easy that is going to be able to parse out. What I also wonder is that, you know, these, a lot of the stuff that, you know, people are uncertain about and have been left unknown is really a matter of primacy. And, you know, there's only a certain amount that we as a board can publicly communicate. And that information is probably not going to satisfy the community and address perhaps some of the wounds Chris is sort of rawness that you are alluding to. I think in order for that to happen, you know, we're basically asking for then families perhaps to share or to put themselves in a place where they may not be ready to do. Maybe they never were or don't want to go backwards because they're moving on. And I think what also concerns me is that, you know, there has been sort of drips of information, whether it's sort of anecdotal information that's come out over the last several months from different people, different families, sort of different sort of loose communications. There's also been data that's percolated up from climate surveys and, you know, assessments, things around ESTs that we talked about last meeting. And I don't, I haven't seen that move in needle very much. And so I feel like the information in some ways has been there for people to start to kind of perhaps piece together the blanks in a way that we as a board are able to do for the reasons I mentioned earlier. So I guess I'd be interested hearing from you, Susan, is that coming away from hearing from all of us what you potentially envision, what you've seen work that might make me feel better about potentially continuing to pursue this. Because I think also another thing, the reality is that it's going to cost us money. And, you know, there are tough decisions that we have to make and is this the priority over us? Questions first. Give me the short headline. What it is you think the community members, what was it about? I don't read the same newspaper you do. So was this over the way the school is run or board decisions that were made? Kind of give me a bit more. Essentially over the termination of a principal. That is inaccurate. There'll be other words used like voluntary, you know, resignation, things like that. But it's centered around moving the principal from the school and, you know, all the allegations surrounding that. Susan, I would just add, I think that we have major divisions and you might be able to even sense. You know, on our board, our board is quite divided. We've got some wonderful members who are, you know, some of the first contested board races for the new seats. In a while, this is a very lively issue in our community. I think, you know, some of our leaders have sort of come under the spotlight in terms of, you know, people being advocates or not advocates. And I think that I would actually disagree. I think that the issues of this year are, you know, intricately related with what happened last year and that everything needs to be on the table for families to feel. Community members and families to feel connected to the school again and that it's not awkward to go to social events. So you think that community members think that this is about? I think the headlines are, you know, people feel that there was an overreach. There was a power play, sort of an agenda behind that. I think people feel that board members basically sort of caved. A lot of misinformation, you know, Donald Trump, I call it something else, but has come out where there's been uncertainty. People have created their own narratives as a result. Multiple narratives. And none of them are healthy. I would say the other, sorry. You know, I think board members should finish and then maybe one or two sentences from each of the community members if you'd like to join in. It wasn't you. It was, it just wasn't, what was the last thing that you were saying? The narratives. Thank you. I think there also are families with really specific things that happened that maybe because their child was somehow involved, they know a little bit more. And I think that some of them feel that people who believe what Chris had just said, that the community used to be very connected and everybody getting along. I think they feel that that people don't want to know what happened to them because it isn't their experience. And when they say that, you know, that wasn't my experience with the school. The school worked great for me. It really devalues what they're really saying is what happened to your kid could never happen to mine. And by you pointing it out in such a public way, you're changing what I thought my school was. And I don't, I really, that makes me very uncomfortable. So there's an unfairness, I think on both sides. There's the hurt from people who are so shocked that the school was portrayed in a negative way, you know, in the news and even around our own school and the surrounding school communities. But there are other families, too, who are feeling that people sort of know, maybe don't, maybe believe, maybe don't. But either way, wish they didn't, if that makes sense. So I feel like that's an area that when you were talking about families being kind of, you know, either forced to share or not share. I think that is an area that people are in. And there was a reaction that a little bit of post-traumatic stress would just say that because we were in the same room a year ago. Some might have called it a community farm when sort of all of this hit the fan. And I think sort of the gathering of people and energy around this issue and where the focus was in terms of blame, what was happening. And I think to what point you're getting at, Caroline, is that for those people that may have been impacted over the years by decisions made that led us to where we were, is that that doesn't matter. Those experiences don't matter. There's more concern about the process of how things happened and the potential overreach of the superintendent. And I think that's a pretty serious underlying area of attention as well. Families that may have been, saw this happening and said finally, you know, we've been heard is all of a sudden the community that used to so much coalesce was basically saying that their experiences didn't matter. I want to be aware of time. Susan, would it be helpful for you to get one sentence from the community members in the room of anything we haven't brought up here? Yeah, there's an area that hasn't been covered. Yeah, Marilyn, did you have one sentence? Yeah, I think it's very presumptuous for any of you to make any interpretation of what the community is looking for because I don't feel like we ever got the chance to talk about it. The number one, in this great detail and together as a community, it's your leader. And the communication, the lack of communication of what happened led to the fake news, the narrative's interpretation. So, I just feel like the communication, if you didn't talk about it before I walk in, would be a pretty high priority if this is even going to come up again at a community level. Thank you. Kevin, Allison, do you want to add anything? Do you want to go on your own? In any case. In any case, yeah. No? Allison? Everything that I would say and I think has been said. Great, thank you. Allison? Well, I think this has been really fascinating to hear because Susan does not know about the situation that she's had all these years ahead. And I bet that you still know very little about the situation. From what I've worked off in one of those stories, I feel like I've worked off. And I totally get it. It's really hard to keep privacy separate, which I think has been part of the problem because I'm trying to believe anybody. But I feel like this is almost the heart of the issue is we're not really speaking in facts. We're sort of speaking in these months scattered on the wall. The one thing I really want to comment on is I'm not saying this as a personal thing, but I've actually been vilified for saying the school worked for me. And the reason is, I feel like people did not listen to what happened before and after those words, which are, I'm so sorry this is happening to you. The school worked for me. Please tell me what we can do to make sure it works for everybody. And instead, what I get back is, oh, so the school worked for you. And that has been upsetting for me. I don't feel I need to air my grievances necessarily in a forum, but I bet that there's a lot of other people that feel that way, too, that have the best of intentions genuinely to make everything better. We just don't have a way to do it. I'm trying to offer support and not finding a rude hand. You know what I'm saying? I can sympathize. I'm so sorry. I can't understand. I can't understand what happened to you. I mean, I wasn't in your family, so I can't understand. I feel terrible about it. And I want to make sure that nothing that ever happens to any of these families again, and I genuinely mean that. But can I really know? No, of course I can't. I wasn't there. The school worked for me for my kids. And so I had no idea that these problems were there. Thank you. Amy, did you want to say something? Okay. Bill, would you want to add anything that Susan should know as she starts to think about it? No, I think she gets it. Yeah, as much as you can. She's like this with public and personal privacy and those types of things. Yeah, so what do you need? So where this is helpful for me is kind of a sense of what we'd be walking into and just thinking of different processes for you that you might do. I mean, frankly, there's a whole bunch of different things you could do. You know, several. I mean, if you weren't on the board, you can't own something. So people who are on the board can take care of that. You can always say, oops, didn't communicate well there. In hindsight, here's what we might have said that would have helped. You can outline what you can't say. And frankly, I think some of the things that were said here are people's realize that, you know, people have different experiences and here's what they're caught in. Folks are trying to reach out and kind of find a way to do it. Other folks are feeling not heard or if there's not a place for them. You could do some of that. I don't think anything would prohibit individual board members, you know, setting up listening sessions. You know, each of them. You can probably do it even two at a time about being in violation and collecting information. And what kind of information would be? We have a lot. What are people saying they never want to happen again? Okay. Does that sound right to folks that have trouble with concerns? How do you include the teachers? Is the question, how does the public get to speak to the teachers now? How do teachers get to speak to the board and the superintendent? They don't want to. They don't feel safe doing that. Gotcha. You can probably use an intermediate. That's probably the easiest thing to do. I don't want to say as I've said in many times, they have an association. Well, yeah, let's not go there. I just want to really focus right now, you know, with the awareness that we do have on them shortly. So what are the next steps, Susan, that you see? So I think just deciding what kind of process you want to use. I just, I'm going to have to say we are running out of time. I've got a Ph. Are you going to stay for a little bit? I can only stay for a little bit. I'm finishing up right now. So we need to figure out what kind of process we want to use. And that, do you have recommendations for us? Because we are a bit... I frankly, if I were you, I would divide up and talk with people. I would collect all of the information, the things that need to be said. I would invite somebody in, hear somebody else, to speak with teachers. Whether it's in small groups or in large group or whatever. So collective information so that people feel protected in how the information can get back to you. As quickly after doing all of those, I would say, here's what we've learned. At the board. A segment from the board. Here's what we've learned. You don't need to talk about what causes this fault it is. But you can only talk about, I don't know, well in hindsight, we could have done this differently. Whatever it was going on. And here are some steps we think that might help in the future. And here's the opening for people to address this. But what have we learned? I think the teacher's information may be different than other folks. I don't know, I would be guessing that. But whatever it is, collect that in. And I think you'd have to deal with that separately. And I would be, it is an interesting thing. When you collect the information from teachers, you may not want that to be public information because it makes your teachers very vulnerable. What is done with this information once we collect it? Act on it. Just us. The reason why I'm asking that is that I feel like this is, that can be, I guess it depends on how we act on it. But I don't see, this is deeper than the board. The board is the, you know what I mean? So I guess I'm just kind of curious about how. So for example, if you hear a bunch that there was communication that didn't happen, do you get that kind of scatter shot? Invite the public in to say what kind of communications are helpful? How regularly? Do you have newsletter? Do you post stuff on the website? What kind of information? What are the limits to what you can do and can't do? Just do it around individual topics so that you've involved the public or the teachers or whatever group it is in creating solutions to those particular areas. You can only deal with what happens from now on. Thank you. I think I guess that's a lot to think about. Yeah. Any other questions? No, thank you very much. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Yeah. It sounds almost like Deja doing all over again. What you're saying is basically what Curtis Reed did with the school immediately afterwards and what the board and the district did by issuing formal written communications and creating a communication strategy. So it sounds like we just need to revisit that strategy and repeat it. We're implementing it. Tell you what, we're going to leave this discussion for now. Thank you, Susan. And then, yeah, safe drive home. I think that's an important point, though. Don't do anything that you can't get traction with. Thank you. I have somebody to pull it off the shelf and beat you with a head with a knife. Thank you. Good. Good. So we're switching topics right now. Do you have the policy with you? Okay. I'm going to put you on speaker phone here. And we're in open session. So this is about policy. Hopefully I won't lose you if I do. I'll call you right back. Deja, you're still there? I'm here. Okay. So I'm going to get the volume as high as I can, but I don't. And hopefully you'll hear your mic. You'll hear the mic will pick you up by the Chris, especially on the way over to you and might have a good time. Okay. I'm getting to you. I'll move over. Okay. So, PHR, thank you so much for joining us. This is Woden Teachout. I'm hoping you can introduce us fairly briefly by saying what you found, what you see in the principle of preservation policy. If you think it passes legal master, and if not what you think we need to do to it. Okay. I understand the reasons why the board may want to be responsible for making the kinds of decisions that are contemplated in the policy. But let me tell you what I think it says and then talk about the potential pitfalls. You know, ultimately these are decisions that you have to make. But as I read it, it looks like you all want to be responsible for making decisions about placing principles on paid administrative leave. And just so everybody is clear on what that means, administrative leave is a non-disciplinary status. It's effectively a way to remove an employee from the workplace during the time when it's a judgment of the person responsible for making that decision. The employee presents a danger to persons or to property or their continued presence in the workplace could undermine the integrity of any investigation into allegations of misconduct. And so, typically, the paid administrative leave is a mechanism that's used where there's some serious allegations of misconduct, the kinds of things that could lead to disciplinary action both off as a suspension toward termination. Sometimes it can be less than that. And also whether you decide to use paid administrative leave is going to depend largely on the nature of the allegations that are being raised. So just by the very nature of something that you can do immediately, which can't be something or it should be something, forgive me, it can be whatever you want, ultimately you're warned to get those decisions. But it needs to be something that is decided quickly. So, for example, if an allegation of sexual conduct is raised against an employee, one would expect that the moment that allegation comes to the invention of the administration, the employee would be removed from the school. That would be to make sure that there's no continued in conduct of danger as to any other employees or any other students in the school. And the advice that I originally gave is to wait to have an allegation of serious misconduct, get the person out of the school environment. You are not in any way including them. What you're doing is effectively hitting the pause button until you can sort these things down. So, in part, a concern that I have when I read the policy is that it's contemplated that a board will have to ultimately make that decision and it suggests that it would be in the context of an emergency meeting. I think I would share with you that the case is that the statutes that talk about the difference between an emergency meeting and a special meeting don't then contemplate things like employees on pain administrative leave, but then leave that aside for a moment. It's going to take time and during that time and don't see anything in your policy that contemplates that something can be done until a decision is made by the board and that's a concern that I would have. And then in terms of the board taking action you know, I would anticipate that all of you would want to know the specifics of the information available to the school. You would want to know the sources of those information. You want to know if there's how revealing information so that you can make judgments about whether it would be appropriate to remove the principal. And the concern that I would have under those circumstances is that ultimately if you know too much, what it may do is undermine your ability of the board ultimately to make decisions with respect to the termination of a principal. The board and the board alone has the authority to hire and fire. Now, I see on the policy, so Markup, that I understand team in connection with a conversation with BSBA and it costs about 15 BSA 242 subsection 3 and 242 generally. And that talks about you with the board having the ability to hire principals that hold me upon the nomination by your superintendent. But I didn't look either fault to this to the fact that you ultimately under 243 not 242 but 243 will have to make the decision in a hearing equates our judicial function to term it. And you have to be impartial. You can't be perfectly ignorant of all of the concerns raised against a principal. But the Supreme Court suggests that you should take reasonable effort not to know too much if you're going to in the end act as judge and jury in deciding whether a principal after a contested hearing ought to be filed. So those are the concerns that I had as I read it. And I understand the tension here but I think that there's some significant issues that I saw. Thank you. So Pietro, you were I think stating that the in order for principal to be removed even temporarily it had to be a board decision. And I think the policy actually takes into account an emergency where there's an immediate danger of harm where that isn't so but that there's a requirement of a meeting shortly after that eventuality if that happened if there's a sense of immediate danger to staff member, student, community member whatever by the principal and this only applies to the principal then the superintendent can act promptly and immediately with a meeting held within I think 24 hours after that to for the board to be informed about what happened and why. So I think that the concern you had about the board being this old decision maker in putting someone on paid administrative leave is not part of this policy in emergency situations where there's a significant danger of harm. So and then the second and I appreciate you give me a copy of the Birch Clay decision and actually kind of surprised me a little bit as to how much board members could know and still be in their quasi judicial capacity particularly where the Supreme Court ended up saying that you basically can decide to fire and then also decide after a contested hearing to uphold or amend your own decision and that that at least according in that in that case did not offend due process I was a little surprised at that actually that the board could really do that in both both situations and I don't think I'm misreading that because Dooli Justice Dooli made specific mention saying this is the process that we have and this is how it works and so you know there are precautions I agree with you there's precautions to be had about bias and things like that in regard to both proceedings but the board is by statute sounds like they decide initially whether to fire and then they're the decision makers on after contested hearing right? Sure why wouldn't you want to make sure that kids or staff or everyone is safe and that there can be no that can get them after the fact that you didn't do it quite right and then you know I would never want you all to get into a situation where we have to win a game exactly what it means for there to be an immediate danger of harm in connection with a decision made by Superintendent I just you know I'm worried for you and Chris please I know you gave this great thought and it's a well crafted document but I just you know in terms of the logistics of actually running a school it causes me concern and you know the routine advice I give is it's not just there's a danger of harm and there's any chance that there's got to be harm we've got to get that explained whether it's a principal or a parent or a teacher or a principal on this non-disciplinary standard get to the bottom of it and then bring it back so that was that issue and then on the first point for everybody Chris and I had a conversation the leading team that has to do with your quasi-judicial responsibilities around the termination of a principal is one that I brought to the Supreme Court for which relevant school district and you know it talks about what responsibility and what rights you all have in terms of knowing information before you act in your quasi-judicial capacity and I'm not sure with Chris's analysis procedurally with principals you can terminate and then have a hearing but what I would say is this the danger is before you know about the specifics of the evidence against the principal there's greater the danger that there can be a prevailing argument that you you know that you are treated by virtue of their earlier involvement and their earlier knowledge so that's my concern you know but the contract to that is that it then sets up a situation where you're terminating on little or no knowledge because if you're saying you can't really have knowledge in order to terminate it to be preserved for being pure for contested hearing means that you're terminating on little or no knowledge which that doesn't sound like yeah it sounds like it's alright if the concern is about having too much knowledge after to be able to sit in on a contested hearing then it suggests that the board is making decision to terminate a principal on little knowledge or no knowledge I think that we've made I'm not going to look at the numbers when you're going over these items that might create again what I'm trying to do is I'm worried not just about first place but about the case of Wildermill which is a US Supreme Court case having to do with the termination of public employees who have constitutional rights and continued employment and they talk about due process requiring fairness and that the ultimate by making decision be as impartial and obtained by knowledge as possible which quite acknowledges that you and school board members are going to know some things by virtue of your involvement in the community as board members hearing on a frequent basis either from community members from the superintendent or from employees about the principal but I don't think first place had in mind that you would be part of a totally decision making process around whether the person ought to be put on a administrative leave and when brought back and things like that so first you know these are all questions that I don't think have been answered by the court and you could be right and I could be wrong I'm totally open to that. Thanks. Thank you. I guess I'm trying to figure out how where that fine line of necessary information you know it then becomes compromising in terms of the quasi-judicial role that we might play what wiggle room is there for a board not necessarily to make a decision to place the principal on paid leave but to at least be able to come together with the superintendent and you know immediately and talk through what the issue is you know to have some sense and then I think depending on I think one of the issues that I'm trying to not bring real world life into it but you know if something drags on you know how do you balance your role as a public servant in trying to address public concerns in a way that doesn't compromise your quasi-judicial role or perhaps the privacy of of the individual it's affecting. Okay so the way that it usually works is that the superintendent will have conversations with the board chair where one brush description of the issues of the community. Hey we've got an employee there's been an allegation that he cheated on in Texas you know just choosing something as an example and we're looking into it in the meantime she has been placed on paid administrative leave when we can close the investigation I mean come to you on an issue around termination or if not the principal will be placed back in her position and there will be no disciplinary action I mean that's typically how that communication goes and the part is because the statute specifically constantly is that your superintendent is the CEO of the supervisor you know this is the person who is responsible for the day-to-day operation I totally concede that the statute has to do with the authority of the school board says that you are responsible for the district in its entirety but the statute has to do with the superintendent suggests that the day-to-day decision-making process will be made by the superintendent for you. Pietro can you tell us how would you if we were to keep the intent of this policy but perhaps how would you want to see it revised so that you would feel more comfortable with it? I think it is important for the superintendent to make decisions in his or her discretion about what ought to happen and that decision ought to be made immediately and without any restrictions I mean that's my personal feeling about it because it's really hard in a policy to anticipate every situation whether it's the nature of the allegation principle or whether it's what the principle might do in the interim period between the time that the allegation is made and the board would be able to place the principle of paid administrative leave running around talking to employees trying to get them to say things that are helpful those are all things that we hope to avoid by virtue of getting the accused out of the workplace for that short period of time while you get to the bottom of whatever it is now sometimes you're not able to do a short period of time because the allegations are so broad that it takes a while to understand them fully through investigation and sometimes the police are involved which slows things down because the police will request that you do nothing for some significant period of time while they complete their investigation so I think it's important to give your superintendent that authority to act immediately look at some point I think you can probably have a conversation with your superintendent in the executive session where you learn at least the broad brush allegations without some specific description of each and every piece of evidence and the relative strengths and weaknesses of witnesses I think that I certainly feel uncomfortable with that and how do you deal with that information when you get it in a policy I don't know okay thank you so you're not pointing to a specific line or anything in here it's more your concern is about the policy in general that's exactly it what the policy is contemplating is that unless there is extreme circumstances you all get to make that decision and you know I told you that I understand the evidence behind it and you are a school board if you're elected for a reason but I think the practical terms and in some reasons for some legal reasons it will be I would like to give you the best policy in terms of found administration of your schools so the policy though does not violate any of the statutes is that right the policy the policy does not violate any statutes okay in this this policy doesn't take away the authority of the superintendent to spend someone right so I'm starting to feel like this is becoming Chris and Pietro trying to agree instead of the board getting information I as a board member feel confident that I have the gist of what Pietro is saying about this policy is there anything specific Chris that you think well one of the specifics that was raised was whether it violated statute and the answer to that is no great so we got that answer good any more questions but we don't have a legal definition for immediate danger of harm there probably isn't one just like there's not a legal definition for significant misconduct well if there are no more questions Pietro will let you go thank you very much for joining us thanks Pietro thanks Pietro thanks for hooking us up though so what is the do we want to continue to discuss this should we wait for Carol to return I don't even know if she's going to get it I thought she was not planning that was my interpretation in the email I'm fine discussing it it's on the agenda okay so I wasn't here in January so I'm not sure how it led to Pietro on the phone but it was helpful my number one thing in this policy is that we have developed a policy committee that we share with the SU we have said that we are committed to efficiencies and working with other boards so unless other schools also feel the need for this policy we would be going against those two goals of working together and being efficient if we were to adopt our own so for that reason I don't support it there are other reasons that I don't support it but those two are my main ones and if it was a policy on animal dissection I'd feel the same way we've committed to doing this a certain way so I don't know why we wouldn't bring this to the policy committee I hear that a lot and I don't feel like I've ever committed to I think it's wonderful to cooperate when we can but I don't feel like I've ever had a moment signed on the dog line saying we're going to do this as a matter of policy is that and I would say that you were not at the board meeting we discussed and voted on that it was the December meeting at U32 okay am I right that voting wasn't there I was not there I was doing a talk so what did we did you say there was an official vote as a policy very clearly stated when we were voting on Act 46 it was very clearly stated that this board was committed to efficiencies and sharing resources and that there was no need for it to be a vote because it was so obvious that everybody was committed to that and so I do feel that that has been continually part of our narrative and definitely was a statement that impacted the way I voted on Act 46 so I'm not sure why we would do differently but why we wouldn't follow the procedure we've done for policies for this one because certainly if the policy committee takes a look at it if it's a good policy wouldn't the policy committee then accept it and bring it to the full board or the executive board and then it would just be policy for everyone my sense is that the policy committee is directed by the BSPA and I suspect the BSPA does not have a policy like this and I think by saying that we are favoring efficiency above everything else undermines the situation that we had and I think that we probably didn't act as we should have last year and this compels an action it's pretty minor in terms of its scope is pretty narrow it doesn't deal with any other employee in the school and let me just finish and so it is really a policy that would require the board to take hand action rather than do nothing and so in that respect and given our history it may never be utilized again but it's there to be utilized and because other schools may not have had the same experience that we did and may not see a need for it doesn't mean to me that we should not have it and then other schools saying because other schools can have other priorities that they think are more important than what our community may think is important and that doesn't mean we don't do those things because it's not because it would be inefficient we do and I think this is narrowly crafted and I think would be helpful quite frankly and I don't think it's contrary to reaching out and cooperating and sharing resources when we can and if we have a different idea about something pursuing a different idea are you against the idea though of putting it in front of the policy committee but I don't think that we should control whether we adopt it and be more than happy to share this why would I be, no I'm not against that at all and yeah so well it doesn't seem like it makes sense to act on this tonight it's not on the action agenda I think I would just like to say Christy that I think it was helpful to determine that the policy does not violate statutes and that the relevant decisions court decisions are Wilderville which is a supreme court decision and then the, what was the name of the actually sent this around today it's called Birch B-U-R-C-H Clay versus Taylor Vermont Supreme Court decision from 2015 I would also just add his statement of not the best policy and I get that that's subjective but when we are paying our attorney for his opinion hearing not the best policy holds a lot of weight with me did you catch his comments about around immediate and yes just the subjectiveness and he did say it was a higher bar I mean I'm open to modification if folks since that's too high a bar but the other piece that seemed clear to me just as a public listener is that there was sort of a fuzziness as to how it would influence your ability to be in that judiciary capacity that was one of his concerns the over sharing of information if you would too soon might disqualify or somehow harm that judiciary process and I would have thought the same thing before reading this decision this decision ends up explaining that the board is the determiner of whether to fire and then the process is if the principal contestant they can come in and have a hearing present witnesses and then the board decides whether to uphold or modify its own decision so you know which is kind of a clunky in terms of a yeah you're basically deciding on whether you made it right the first time is there an opportunity for that decision to be then appealed yes but a higher authority may look at that differently but you know what but the rules of appeal are like you should read this decision because it was terrifying for me is that the appeal is based on the record created before the board in the contested hearing and the initial reviewing judge defers to the board on the finding of facts you know the judge can you know if the board got the law wrong can change that but in terms of findings of that there's a standard of deference and then you can go further up to the Supreme Court and they basically apply the same standard and in a sense they affirmed what the board did which was a termination so yes but it's not what's called a de novo which is a completely new hearing it's based on the record that was developed and there's the deferral difference in terms of fact finding to the board I didn't have a chance to really look at this indefinitely but the information that was they were discussing was around email communication so I'm just wondering was it just that the nature of that communication wasn't serious my concern is what at what level maybe they deferred because they didn't feel like the issue was compelling enough to counter what the initial decision was I didn't have a chance yet because we just got it today and so the court also went into a discussion of bias saying whether it has to be completely bias free and the answer is no that everyone carries some bias with them and they kind of put this email that said kind of made a comment though by the board chair saying that just put the nail in the coffin because it was kind of a rehabilitation remedial plan in place and the court said yeah, you know what that just did not have enough impact to knock this chair out from sitting on the panel so it was interesting it just gave a lot more breath to what our roles are gave more substance than I had realized and we're almost at 30 minutes let's close that discussion the discussion 3.1 town meeting preparation my understanding is that on Saturday March 3rd from 11 to 12 2 of us will be at the Red Hen 23rd March 3rd? that's when I'm going to be there Chris and I will be at the Red Hen on Monday March 5th from 6 to 7pm Brian you'll be at Rummy is there someone going to join you? Carolyn was going to join me but I am actually I don't think I'll be able to make that evening so I was going to join the two of you and said can you make the other one? great so then we need to warn that you're welcome to come it's easy to do what's the time on March 5th? March 5th is 6 to 7 at the Rummy Library so you can side that and let us know okay that sounds great on that topic the YouTube video Christa will be sending it out to the board and so voting when she does can you post it to front porch form? and then can someone explain to me why our education equalized per pupil rose 9.52% which seems quite out of line with other schools? because your enrollments drop because that's what I understand bond payment and dropping enrollment is that for those of the two reasons? it's not really the bond payment dropping enrollment dropping revenue just dropping enrollment and hours dropped more than the other towns? the enrollment I had to go back to look at and compare in a percentage and I don't have that right here that's alright our per equalized pupil compared to the other towns I didn't notice it last year to the extent I did this year you are now as close to the threshold the closest district now to the threshold in Washington Central and you were over it and decided to make a budget adjustment which you did and with that combined with the drop in enrollment you don't have as much of a bond issue as e-smart failure does you don't have that type of weight okay 19,000 per pupil this feels like a lot okay and I feel like we did our due diligence during budget time but then looking at it this is a number I understand okay let's move on and unless there's anything more on town meeting prep reports to the board, administration give me I don't recognize communications around the area we're kind of attaching our whole school meeting time to both celebrating our group in those areas as well as kind of setting up the following month's local areas so we had a great celebration on Monday but more kids were celebrating kind of challenging the letters through either encouragement and mentoring or looking for that more knowledgeable letter we've also started our professional learning and literacy had some great additions to our guided reading libraries and are working through some collaborative practices around that providing some coaching to collaboratively work on that with teachers as well as make sure that our reading instruction is kind of dialed into what kids' needs are and really paying attention to looking at our data and doing that as a staff to sort of acknowledge and drive next level iterations in tier one as well as ensuring that our tier two isn't just run some repeat but they were really focused on progress monitoring and hopefully moving kids back to the tier one that are then on level so along with that we've had some great exciting things happening with Unified Arts from the concert which I saw many of you at we had great attendance there Ms. Kay did a great job with the number and variety of musical performances and along with that is just the rich winterfulness we've added a lot of different and new activities for kids this year with CrossFit gymnastics as well as Hip Hop Thank you Hip Hop also performed on Monday which was a great little addition I really appreciate and then of course Ms. Campbell brought us the type of drumming so we've really have such great people with Unified Arts that really make one the second mile that I wanted to highlight there for their contributions to enriching our kids' lives I think finally getting more and more information as far as from cocoa talks and what kids are thinking and what areas of growth improvement they see and what suggestions they have and it's really interesting how the marshmallows and the ideas really start flowing so it's been nice to have that time to both connect with them as well as to hear their perspectives I had a cocoa talk last Tuesday I'll just be a spoiler or but they then at all school meetings also are now getting into the rhythm of reporting back to the full school community as to what was kind of set around the table so between that and the drawing we're really doing underholds and that kind of thing so you can be kind of just perspective on that what do you have at the time? 8, so I have 4 representatives from the time ring and 4 from 3-3-6 and I saw random picking oh yeah, gotta be fair so they got to select whether they wanted their name in the bucket to participate and then the kids actually drew this month my reporters last month picked names and we had a firm role and we celebrate whoever was staying selected so just hearing from kids last month, this is last month's stuff they were stating how things were going well but they feel like the kindness thing is still having some ripple effects within the kid community and they give some specifics there that they're having more friends to play with and that kind of thing they also noted the bonus is too well so they they're pretty even handed I got to tell ya Wingham Wellness has been great they love the new activities and students have been friendly and encouraging which is what we're encouraging this month and it's a great time for them to go to practice as well as one of my things and then I decided to use this as an opportunity to kind of survey them on their perspectives on the reading materials in their classrooms because that was an area that teachers highlighted that they didn't feel like they had enough of the materials within guided reading to really do the small group work well that were short kind of variety genres that kind of thing and the kids it was interesting that they also reiterated that so they were like yeah some of the stuff we have isn't always interesting not all the books in my book box can I read and we have to go to the library for our books you know and just some of the irregularities around our classroom reading libraries so that's what the kids noticed and they wanted to in general everybody's totally down for more interesting newer books to read did they say what those were? did they say what they would be? like did they say I'd rather try because I remember that specific it was interesting to see even kindergarteners registering like well we just got some new books but I can't read them all and best practice would be that there would be plenty of accessible books at whatever level kids are learning so they can practice and then finally I had several facilities minutes we've been experiencing a range of leaks just so that you're aware with our current group and the way Nate and Pete give them accolades as well as the support of WCSU in tackling that problem during the last thought we've had some a lot of stuff emerging in one classroom in particular and have taken to lots of bucket actions outside the box unfortunately after calling in mule hide it was determined that until the roof is totally clear they can't do the full assessment to make sure we are completely watertight so it's going to be a lot of piecemeal through the spring I'm afraid particularly cycles like this so it could be sending in your raincoats I don't know but we're working on it and I feel sure that we can get this resolved and I feel like that's the positive as we can get this fixed no mold we're doing some assessment of the damage drywall area over break right right Morrissey where are they on all this so they do not have two years under construction they don't hold a warranty anymore so they don't have any more responsibility with it they support the subcontractor to push down the subcontractor in that installed the roof is no longer in business they went out of business so mule hide has been really good they sent the person they sent up they wanted someone they knew really knew how to inspect it he said we found things already with about 15-20 square feet we were able to shovel off the problem is there's literally six inches of ice up there and if you pound on the roof you might as well throw away the roof and I'm not being deceitful he said if you pound on this roof you'll damage we cannot keep this membrane going and he said I'm telling you to work through it as soon as this thing's cleared I'll come up spend a week here if it takes me to go through every scene but he found things already that were poorly installed by the subcontractor that's out of business well but they have insurance I suspect I bet they would have had to have insurance to get the job so they I don't know I can't really guarantee that Chris because sometimes some GCs pull that form to help new startups if you get what I mean so was that was that part of our contract that they would be that subcontractors would be fully insured and you may not know that I can tell you this it's standard practice that the GC owns the warranty for two years and that the roof warranty is a separate piece afterwards which is what we have I mean that's the same across school construction now this construction didn't technically end until we're past it we've researched the end date of when we signed off the substantial completion yeah I understand I'm frustrated it can be and some of the things he showed me I'm really frustrated but it's just in terms of the installation who's going to be responsible for paying for this so they'll be responsible for making sure the roof is correct but any of the interior damage is ours that's the way the warranties are wouldn't it be in Wright Morrissey's interest seeing if there are other schools and the supervisory union that are in need of repair to so one of the things I haven't done is go contact Sandy Fee who does their construction piece that's not what I want to do right yet Wright Morrissey has been helping us because we couldn't get Neil High to respond and they were one of the two people architects of Black River Design because we really don't have any more business and they know that they only contract in schools every 20 years or so where they do have a lot of contact is with the architect because the architects help projects and so John Hemmelgarten has been phenomenal on this took his own time saying I'm going to help you he calls we got to get people moving they help very much for that but the warranties are pretty clear I think the warranties are just probably just one piece though of the liability I don't think the warranty is the end all I mean there's a workmanship issue especially because Mughal doesn't sound like they would do the underlying stuff they underwrite the warranty that's what they do for they manufacture out the product and they hold the warranty for the use of that product for the product but not necessarily if you're saying the infrastructure is poor they hold the warranty for the installation they send up their own person to inspect it which the in person did and did not find problems that's an interesting piece that's what the warranty is but the warranty is very clear I've read it several times I haven't read it with Sandy but I've read it with other people that are in the industry I've read it with Bill Ford Bob Kimmerer-Robbs last name of the break more this protects your roof doesn't protect the damaged walls it doesn't say it's going to go and take care of the walls within the building and frankly that's not that big a cost because otherwise we don't get mold everywhere and that's why it's in the same roof inspecting with a few pilot holes for this vacation because to take down a whole wall I don't need to do it right now so just so I'm clear what are the lessons learned then what would we do differently next time I wouldn't use that subcontractor that's right that's about what we can do hopefully we'll just approve putting a roof on their building we're going with a different level of roof subcontractor because we were cutting cost points at a different level of subcontractors and some of the things in this renovation that's not the only place we did that because we were value engineering to get things remember the price came in way over what we had and so we said us or right in Morrissey we for what we're doing the the lesser level subcontractor it's a partnership when Julia was there at the table and we were like how do we get this thing down so we actually have a project and we were horse trading left and right these are the folks inspected the work mule high mule high inspected the work that's why they hold the warranty they inspected because it was done right but I mean simple things like a collar tie around the drain right above Diana's classroom it's not there so is it going to be a problem meaning no it's up to a certain height and then work its way down okay any questions on that there's still more sorry so in addition to this the septic system needed replaced along with the alarms which has been traveling Christine Babcock's room for several years we also have been working in partnership with this party as we sought the additional grant work to further the supported environmental stewardship in Lawrenceville and finally Nate and I are pulling together a digital organization of all of our maintenance records and our contacts there so that is more easily curated in maintenance histories as well as to make it easier for us to collaborate when there's something going wrong and we want to show somebody at WCSU or the crew there what the pattern has been within a certain system so I just wanted to highlight the additional work that the custodial staff has been doing on top of their regular winter routine which is significant thank you for your service questions? Is that new? No it's not, it's an award. It was an issue that we've been dealing with and we're working on the summer capital work, Amy and I and Matt Young from Doty and Cat Fair we've all been meeting sort of combining work projects with Bill Ford putting together for summer capital work as we've been talking about and that's one that's been on the list of things that we're taking out of the project you're going to hear us in summer capital work and that's one of the initial projects that really need to be done protect your investment yep thanks let's go so Lori really previewed it really well in the supervisory meeting but for Remini this month we did a lot of personnel special education and within you'll see on the revenue changes that we've had a little bit less revenue coming in and special ed reimbursement but the overall miscellaneous income a big piece of it being Washington Electric gave back some great pieces so you'll see there's about $5,000 and then when you see the shared benefits an example would be would be your PE teacher Lynn working in both buildings I'm not sure if it's actually her but she may be on the runway books and the benefits needed to come from Dodie so you had extra revenue that came in but you'll see down in expenses there was health insurance shared benefits that went out so it's just an income in and come out for those shared and there's three or four your PE teacher and your librarian I think it's a nurse a little bit yeah you'll see some health insurance and so that's the revenues on the expense side you'll see that there was a little bit more charges to WCSU for special education we had a little bit that Franklin Lawrence should I combine I should just leave it but the pre-K starts a predication we had a little bit additional expenses there to keep it pre-K accredited I already talked about the shared health insurance and then within the runway staff itself there was $14,000 in savings for health benefits changes that happened all that together leaves you a reserve fund balance of about $98,000 or about 3.1% we try to be about that 4% which is about $126,000 so we're better than we've been that's what I was going to say we're creeping back and Amy's had quite a bit of support because she talked about classroom libraries and I know she's talked to you about finding some analysis and trying to update some of that so we've been trying to serve both both places together I take any questions that you have around the around the report the other thing that's happening is your food service for this year it looks like we're going to be okay with the support that comes from the budget and support the food service program without breaking it so you'll have a healthy fund balance sorry, a healthy capital fund balance you'll see where that's projected to be and then with the budget passing in March here we'll be able to do we're looking at some projects that we talked about, Boiler, Roos yep, Haiti so we're looking at a lot different type of carpet that we're seeing a lot of success in Berlin for the Front Entry way and for how many kids are still falling is that your data? and that's part of what, is it Matt Kulva told us about last December he did, it's a log off Matt that just, and it gets integrated into the floor, it's not sitting Matt itself and it can be scrubbed by the door so it makes it easier for the custodians but it makes it safer for the kids let's move on to the action agenda if everybody's ready set the, 5.1, set the tuition rate for Romney Memorial School at $19,157 for fiscal year 18-19 do we have any tuition students? so do we need a motion in order to discuss? I make a motion that we set the tuition rate for Romney at $19,157 for fiscal year 2018-2019 second and this is my first time through so can someone help me understand how we arrive at this number? so it's a calculation, required by state statute that that's the maximum amount we can set it lower if we shall choose schools that set it lower tend to do it to okay, got it she's just going to have to high school yes, that makes sense discussion? nope, okay all those in favor? the motion passes 5.2, accept end of year retirements probably should say resignation I see it says retirement sorry I didn't touch that on the agenda the letter says retirement we don't there's a retirement in the district oh yes, that's a retirement I'm sorry actually yeah, do we need to talk about the other one today with a special line I'm sorry, I was forgetting that one so we'll talk first of all about Lynn Woodard's retirement thank you, I'm sorry I misspoke so did you move? I'm sorry, I forgot I'll make a motion to accept the resignation from Lynn Woodard the retirement I'm sorry, yes the retirement great, second second discussion after we vote Chris, do you want to do it? well, I'll do it before Lynn Woodard has been just a breath of fresh she is a character in so many kids books the friendly librarian takes kids under her arm and just opens worlds that they would never have had before and did it all through some difficult times in her own life her husband passed away during the time we went through a long period of illness and she's also maintained a very upbeat persona and kids loved her and we loved her and she'll be missed so we left in spite we'll deserve retirement if she's truly going to retire I would just like to say that every year at Christmas I like her Lynn, which book should I buy my kids for Christmas and she always writes back with these fabulous suggestions so I will miss her very much so any further discussion? performance? okay all those in favor? opposed motion passes did we want to add the resignation in here? so I don't need your approval but I do want to make sure you're informed Gretchen Fieser has resigned her special education since she's a Washington Central Supervisor Union employee we received at the day we had the executive committee meeting last Wednesday so they voted to accept it but I'd like to make sure the local boards are informed is that effective? no, it's at the end of the year and we're starting a process right now the principal thing has been part of this in designing a special hiring process that can go across multiple schools to different positions there will be teaching in the local placement school and people from the line we're still keeping the spirit of local schools keeping the hiring so we have multiple and frankly special educators are in the top three or four positions that's hard to find people for so try to do it expedited okay 5.3 a point board representative to meet with agency of education regarding Act 46 proposal can I have a motion? I think we took care of that I think we have to vote right here so I have a motion that floor Diaz and Matthew do agree to be our representative of the meeting with agency of education regarding Act 46 thank you discussion? all those in favor? the post okay thanks for coming Bill do you have board orders for us? we have so we need to approve board orders I make a motion to approve the board orders in the amount of $59,341.16 for the two together correct second all those in favor? aye no motion passes now did we want to revisit the question of the mediation at this point can we do that? I'm sorry what is the question? what happened was Susan Terry came in spoke and kind of went into the lawyer's time and Brian asked if we can there's a point I don't know if it's acceptable to go back to a discussion item you can go back to a discussion item my thought is just if we're not taking action which we wouldn't because it's not on the action agenda I mean I'm sort of just like to respond to your comment that was made earlier can we just get maybe we have a housekeeping to speed because I feel like I need to say I apologize I probably should have put it on the action items but it was just an oversight and it sounds as if you didn't put it on the action item at the beginning of the revision this regarding the mediation yeah sorry I don't think we're ready to ask she sort of gave us an overview of her suggestions which were quite similar to things that we've already done although perhaps we could do them differently but doing them and then coming together like what were they called last year in January that there was central office and there were parent nights and the board did one I don't remember what they were called but we as a board didn't go and have two people sectioned off to listen to people so they're similar but with intention it could feel different so are we allowed to let me just get clear are we allowed to we can talk about this we can go back great but Carolyn you talked about housekeeping was that what you were talking about that is exactly what I was talking about it's fine and I would say our history we have voted on things that are not on the action agenda I'm not saying that's what I want in this case but yes we have and that is a practice that I have worked to correct because it is not a best practice I would agree Ryan did you have something you wanted to say? I wanted to just quickly respond to the comment that Marilyn made because Marilyn you were talking about communication and I want if I haven't made this clear I want to make it as clear as possible as that personally probably one of the most challenging aspects of this time last year was our inability to communicate in an effective manner really in many cases at all and it was frustrating to not be able to I think in some parts the reality was is that variety of things one this isn't in the manual that you are given when you sign up to be a voluntary board member and so trying to sort of figure out boundaries and roles and responsibilities and all that while we deal with this was challenging and we were trying to respect privacy and law to a certain extent as well but there was never an intent or desire to starve the community of information at least on my part and I feel like the more would have been better in some way earlier on and I think to your point about the lack of information allowed for things in other narratives to be created and I don't disagree with that but I would also say on the flip side as a board member hearing you talk about the staff and the staff not trusting the board and the superintendent I just my assumption then is that you are representing the views of the entire staff when you say that and you're not the first person to come to the board and make that statement and for us that can be an uncomfortable situation for us to be in as well because is this person speaking on behalf of the board and if so why and if not please don't present it in that does that make sense I understand if you might be reflecting conversations as you had but I think it's different than if you're speaking on behalf of the entire staff is that from a board perspective I'm not even representative so that I think would be the job of the teachers themselves for their being representative and the teachers that I have spoken to in conversations personally or at school and not all of them because I don't know all of them but urging them this is an issue for you to come to the board those that have said are not comfortable coming to the board I think it's important that you guys know that I'm sorry that you're uncomfortable hearing that it's not that I'm uncomfortable hearing it where I get uncomfortable is that the distinction between staff that you've communicated with and saying that staff don't trust because that can then be misunderstood as a representation of the staff in general versus so I'm just asking for that clarity so definitely for the record this is not in a provision of 100 I think one thing I realized that we did not do last year that we started to do was we were going to meet with the staff in March and we sent out a invitation and then I think there was some kind of scheduling conflict and we never followed up no the staff said they did not want us to do that my memory is that that's that it was a scheduling issue coming in on a certain Wednesday and that didn't work what I remember was it was a scheduling issue and there was the Wednesdays the Wednesdays and it was bumping up against April but then the school climate committee sent out their own survey to survey the staff on if they wanted the board to come and what they would want them to speak on and hopefully that data is still accessible somewhere but the staff said that they didn't see what the purpose would be and they were not in favor of something like that that is interesting, I'm actually just on that committee I know you were I know you were but yes and I would be interested to know if there are staff members who are not comfortable coming to the board are they not comfortable because there's a procedure in place and they're not at the step to come or because they're afraid by the board or because of what would happen after I feel like those are three separate things and we won't know but whichever one it was I would be interested it sounds like we should this might be a situation where two board members go out to the staff as opposed to if staff members are feeling uncomfortable coming here in a public forum meeting them where they are initially because I also of the mind that someone has a difficulty that they should be coming and being able to air in public because that's kind of what we teach our students is that if you have a difficulty with someone you should be able to go and meet with them and discuss it and try and resolve it and we often as adults don't follow what we are hoping our students will do but in a situation where I think it would be move us to in pairs maybe go out and set up a time when we can meet with staff members to hear from them that was the free advice Susan gave us right, exactly well so thanks for bringing us back to that so how far do we want to try and get on this tonight do we want to try and figure out next steps on that or put it off to the next agenda yeah she I went out to meet her because I knew I knew her from somewhere and I wanted to find out where and so she handed me her resume so somebody and there's and Carolyn just for your information she said three big suggestions one is collect information to invite someone in to speak with specifically on the teachers but with everybody and then three as a board and here's what we've learned and take action follow it up don't do anything you can't get traction on so I guess the question is how much how far do we get tonight I'm not feeling particularly far but I I'd say eight minutes into the discussion may I just ask when we initially started talking about doing this forum it was in regards to this last year and now it's there's clearly you know kind of like more of a broad spectrum with now and I'm wondering what you know you hope to glean from the whole work I think my answer that would be it's partly that's what we hope to glean but partly to give people the chance that they have not yet had to express what their experiences were and these those can be sort of actually you know sort of here's what happened to my child or they could be an emotional response but to get a sense of where people are because I think that's really hard to read right now and that may well be a multi-stage process I guess you know in any change process and I feel like we are very much in its stream on that you know I think what I'm just trying to clarify is you know understanding that you know we would not be looking for perfection you know across our learning community a hundred days in you know we're a little over a hundred days in and so I'm totally I'm not trying to like I am trying to understand like what the words kind of hope is as far as the mix of like closure versus like what else do you hope for? Yeah I guess what else are you trying to you know achieve through that closure if anything because I think just you know recognizing that we are all still processing and learning new things and figuring each other out and in that relationship and trust building that makes me just curious Alison I saw you had your hand up but let me see if anybody on the board wants to say thank you to that I don't have a direct response to what you said but it's not because I'm not thinking about it but I want to say about what Susan Terry said my before we before I could feel comfortable voting on if this was something to move forward with I would really want to know what we were going to do after this because there had been talk previously and maybe that's off the table but there had been talk about the board members coming but just listening and not saying anything and I feel like if that's the model we have then what because people have come to the board and said things and they've written into the board and said things and we've made attempts to come together on communication and those attempts failed I wouldn't want people to come to this event and we say that we're here to listen but then we give nothing back ever so I think we need to map out you know next steps what the parameters of this you know of an event that Susan Terry would facilitate what would that look like and then what do we do after that and with that information so it isn't just another project that sits so I think would be a point of taking information but having a dialogue at the same time not just you know I think part of our difficulty is that we don't have dialogue very much when people are speaking it's more like let people speak and then just wait when you're saying we mean board members or community groups so actually asking questions of each other and then I think Carolyn's right about doing something with it rather than Carol Lynn Caroline right? I said Caroline I thought I thought he did we'll give you credit cards Caroline on the right of me but doing something with it because I think having conversation getting information not doing anything with it we're trying to figure out what to do with it and actually asking people what do you think you would want to say to address what your concerns are and whether or not the board ended up doing that or not but at least soliciting input because it's a community dialogue and community issue for community resolution I think you know within bounds it's not like oh we want to do this we're not going to do that because we can't you know we're not undoing the changes that we made certainly and I think we're supporting the effort moving forward but I think getting at this underlying dissatisfaction or at least in some sectors have we ever considered doing like the work of learning conversations and by learning it's more like the give and take learning about each other's perspectives like have you guys heard about that I wanted to a session on that at the Roland conference because of like just our climate stuff and it might be even useful to structure the flow in that way but I worry about the facilitator like you really do need a training facilitator with each group right but it done well like it could give us a long term strategy for how we because we would do more than one that's the understanding is that this becomes a way to almost like dialogue within mixed groups instead of you know just the pods that you typically are pool with you know it ends up being a little bit more of a mix between people that that may help people better understand each other's perspective without I mean I feel like I have to I need to go back and listen to her and when I say go back and watch the video and listen and do that but it sounds to me like they're really and not that she was supposed to there wasn't a concrete plan in place and so I do think more work needs to be done on it but in terms of planning and I think definitely we don't think we're talking about doing anything is that so I guess what I'm suggesting or what I'm saying is that we need to designate more time to it at the next meeting and I don't have any other answers then and I do yes you may and it is it is uncomfortable clearly because I'm already studying uncomfortable for me to bring it up but before we can really do this and have us feel comfortable we've got to be somewhat on the same page I have no problem with board members voting differently than others but as a former principal who did resign from a contract before if the board ever took that and said that I was terminated that would be so beyond horrible and we had a principal who resigned and if we as a board do not use that language and we change what happened there's no amount of this mediation like there's nothing that can be done that could get us as a board to lead our community with a division about something like that so I had a reaction when it was said because I do feel that is an inaccurate term that is not how I see things and having like I said having been a principal to switch words like that would be completely offensive and a violation and so just as a board member when I'm not as shocked and had some time to think about it I wanted to express that because I know that people are wondering what happened and have different feelings about last year but I can't sit and not clarify that there was no termination last year I guess I have one more thing to say that just about public education in general that we will always have and this isn't we will always have people that are unhappy with something and that's the nature of public education and it might and I just have to put that out there and I'm not saying that we shouldn't do this or that we should I'm just saying there are always people that are not happy with what is happening in the school they're always there there's always the privilege and I've lived it for 26 years and it's a hard place to be professionally and we don't schools don't necessarily do the PR that they should but they don't have time you know and I would say that this isn't an effort to deal with just just satisfaction whatever it may be I think it's really in response to a specific series of events no I understand that and I appreciate that I'm just kind of I just feel like that piece of culture that I I just feel like I needed to say that in general it's not about education it's not for any other reason to just make sure that it's understood that that is there and maybe it's my own little thing it's not me Allison you've been very patient I think that I'm getting this right I heard Brian hesitating about this form at all and I've got that I heard Kevin saying I felt like this was all just kind of the same same old and I wonder if it might be more palatable no I just said I didn't need it to be repeated we did this in the beginning we first lost our principal and it sounds like we need to revisit that same process so then maybe this you actually don't want to pull up this idea I was thinking about would it feel more palatable for everybody Caroline included rather than necessarily being a community forum where we can hash out what happened instead very specifically try to frame it as with an eye toward what we have recently been through what are the things that are going really well for you and do you have any specific constructive criticism for things you think we could do better on and that might give us a better place to be more concrete when we're done like now we have something that we can at least consider and might not end up feeling quite as much of a kind of patching out of issues or a place that you're complaints this is an idea thanks I was going to say I see that as kind of a mission of the board this whole forum was meant to kind of bring closure to a traumatic series of events that affected some people and we were still carrying away this I call it an area of grievances but just sort of people to somehow bring closure to that a little more thanks it says to me we have a number of thoughts that have been floated I don't unless you want to keep pushing on to our agenda of our time it probably makes us put on a future agenda not all of us do some serious thinking and maybe perhaps come with a proposal for here's what I would like to see it look like and then we can talk out specific proposals I would also suggest that the three of you and Brian do some thinking about the possibility of a different board and that if that's the case how are you going to move forward and make sure people are up to speak and not that you and I can't do that thinking either but they are guaranteed and ultimately the board may be a different board the next time and it's really important that you're clear about how the people that are the two people that come in are informed in terms of privacy I don't know what that means that's a bill or a VSBA question as well as what the process will be getting everybody up to speed so that you can move forward because this certainly has been a long time and we've done it really slow down and it should have been moved down fast Do the results six months later? What a question future agenda items we certainly have that on it any other future agenda items Executive committee update I would have pushed for it to be on tonight but anything else Board calendar and communication I don't know what that's about that has been there it's about we were supposed to change our board meeting days because it conflicted we'll be doing it again in March regardless but I would if somebody could if Bill came with some of the set dates in a printed color coded form that would help the first large meeting when we what is it called reorganize reorganize and we have the only ones that have changed so Monday what month first Monday I would make the suggestion that everybody think about that going back to that because the color coded copy that I don't know why we didn't get it this year but we've gone through the whole school year and we haven't got that the number of board meetings that are out there trying to coordinate it and we've kind of encroached on a standing meeting for U32 and created a conflict by our change so I would just have people think about that Monday or we look and we see if there's a night I can ask there's not a lot of nights I'm just so what we did last year was reorganized first so that everybody else could have made the decision to organize around us and it didn't make attention so I don't I'm just saying everybody has the opportunity and I don't think we should get a Monday night meeting to make it easier for someone else who could change so we'll think about it up until next year absolutely it is it's efficient let's have all of our meetings on the same night same location so the other thing is do you need the other piece that needs to go on there is going back to that policy the principle preservation policy no which one principle preservation actually she records it unless you have something specific it should have it regardless of what happens correct so we're adjourning at 9.10 thank you