 Welcome back to The Breakfast and our first major conversation this morning we are moving to the discussion on Justice Mary O'Deely's house. The police has said that they arrested about 14 suspects. One of them claims to be a police officer working for the Attorney General of the Federation of the Bacar Malami. In response, of course, the Attorney General has said that he is not aware of anyone working for him and he is a drowning man looking for who to pull down with him. The police segment also says that it's a combination of fake police officers, fake journalists, fake EFCC agents, fake everything that planned together and of course stormed Ms. Justice O'Deely's residence as investigations continue. This morning we are joined by Kasim Afegboa, his former Commissioner for Information in Eddow State and a former spokesman to Ibrahim Mademoisel Babangida. Good morning, Mr. Afegboa. Thanks for joining us. Yeah, good morning. All right, yes, absolutely. A lot of people are still stunned as to the revelations from the Nigerian police and the investigation into this case. Some people, of course, have said that this is, you know, just a lot of stories that don't make any sense. So let's get to your thoughts first of all on the police statement saying that these are a couple of fake agents that stormed Justice O'Deely's residence. Do you agree or do you believe that that is possible? Well, I think I have my reservations about the president's revelations. You know, the incident happened right at the heart of my trauma in Abuja, which is just barely a kilometer from the police headquarters, so to speak. And I remember I was on air, you know, on AIT, when that news broke that people have invaded the residence of Justice O'Deely, a proactive police force would naturally have arrested those guys right at the scene of the incident because they waited there for quite some time. And so now that we are coming up with names, routine names, or persons who are fake CSP or what have you, it goes to show that God forbid, that woman will have been killed and it will have been another scenario of unresolved murder. God forbid. But it goes to tell you that there is so much of disconnections and dislocations in our security formation in this country. It's what it could happen at the heart of Abuja for not one minute, not two minutes, not five minutes, for minutes that were enough for the police to mobilize to arrest those guys at the scene of crime. So for me, it's obvious presence is parading for people. Nobody is ready to own up to their responsibility of what happened that day. Goes to show that we are all in a danger of time. And it's quite unfortunate. Okay, so let's dig further. Do you think it's possible to have fake police officers among orders get a search warrant overnight to invade the house of Justice Mary O'Deely? Is that possibility? Because we're talking about caught warrant here or search warrant. So how possible is that? You see, even the issue of search warrant was laughable. What we saw was a search warrant from a particular magistrate called the writing house of a night and not house of a several that belong to Justice Mary O'Deely. So whatever be the motive of this process, whether they have a search warrant, they don't have a search warrant, search and invasion is not only barbaric, it's not only British, it goes to underscore the failure of security in this country. And I'm saying that at the scene of that crime, a lamp in a way raised, and I was expecting the police at that point, if they are not comfortable to have gone to make arrest on the spot. Because I know who's making individuals rush to that place to go and give some kind of so called to the woman. But who didn't see the general police and nobody called up. Police said no. Ministry justice ministry said no. DST said no. PSTC said no. In the country, in the heart of a Buddhist state of government, my time is not one kilometer from police headquarters. And yet, now you're parading for three persons, the leader. For me, for me, I think we need to please, you know, very busy fast. The point is, as Nigerians, this government should wake up to provide what is expected of them. And strike in the 1999 constitution, chapter four, provision of welfare and security and protection of lives of the citizens in you. When a highly privileged Nigerian, a justice of the Supreme Court, could be subjected to a kind of barbaric treatment, then what will happen to people like us who are who are at the lower home of the ladder? Mr. Afeggwa, you made a mention, you know, that if the police are not culpable, are you are you saying that there's a possibility that the Nigerian police knows exactly what happened and are simply trying to, you know, deny their involvement in this in this case. And what could be the underlying situation here? Because people have mentioned that this is simply bullying or, you know, a way to bully justice audibly for some reason or the other. You see, every, you know, in every human society, there is a tendency to commit crime, which is why you have a police force in place, so that they would take ahead of crimes and criminality. If you don't have information, you don't gather intelligence about your pressures in the heart of Abuja, the seat of government, barely a kilometer to the seat of power, to the, to Asok Villa, it's barely a kilometer to the police headquarters, then it belongs on the police to please apologize to Nigerians for failing to provide the necessary security support to citizens that populate the city of Abuja. That is one. Secondly, you see, it is not even about a person in place. If the police were to be a personal police system, we thought at the scene of that crime, those guys would have been arrested. Because they spent some time there. They spent some time and, and telephone calls were made to the relevant authorities. Yes. What did they see? You are coming two weeks later to parade people. You can parade them, no problem, but it will be a shitter for you to arrest these guys at the scene of the incident. Because this person, this person is going to hire lawyers. They will start befriending that they were not there. You may not have CCTV footage. You may have, you may not have other things. But if they were arrested at the point of committing that crime, it will have been more, more, you know, commendable. So when I leave, I leave this place for the police to please take the necessary action to protect, you know, citizens, guarantee their security so that we can live in peace and harmony. We know that the country is heavily troubled. We know that the police are heavily stressed. We know that even the army are overstressed. We know that DSS are overstressed. It is because certain things are not being done right to me. We are not proactive. We are only reactive. This one has happened and we are reacting. It is because, it is because, what is it called, justice code is involved in this case. There was an incident that happened about a week ago where somebody was killed and according to the Kana illegal, a director in FAA, FAA, the Federal Air Force Authority of Nigeria up to now would not have anything from police. So there are quite a number of issues to raise. But, you know, this is, this is Nigeria where almost everything goes. Okay. Let's further look at the fact that if, I mean, according to the narrative, there was a tip-off and that's why of illegal activities ongoing in the residence of Justice Odili. Now, let's assume that that's anything to go by. What is the standard procedure? Who should have gone? What is expected? Should the EFCC, should we have the EFCC or the DSS or the police who should be involved in the search and warrant? You see, my sister, we are not running this type of system. A system where there is, you are trying to carry out an action. You are also downloading the fundamental human rights of a renowned citizen of this country. What difference does it make? If you are written a letter to Justice Odili, inviting her to appear before any of you. And they are psychorruption and all these midnight invasions is peculiar with this government. Don't forget that it happened before now. Three years ago, the justice system was, you know, quite bad. And arrests were made. So whatever excuse that this president wants to have, we will be drawing inspiration from what it did at the initials. Because it is peculiar with this government to carry out midnight reasons. And that's quite unfortunate, where it's very barbaric. In civilized crime, you invite persons, in respect of whether you have such one act or not, a person who is a stabbing justice of the Supreme Court cannot be affiliated to the law. No matter how you see it, no matter your crime, no matter your crime, do things in a more civilized manner so that we can have a better. There's too much of loneliness in this country. There are too many cells, power cells. Individuals are losing power or questionable power. Powers that are ordinarily beyond the scope of their own beauty. So for me, it is a breakdown of law that you can have such a decision happened in the heart of a Buddha and leaving us almost helpless. Just like I said earlier, if the woman had been killed, what story are we going to do today? All right. So now let's also talk about the involvement of the Attorney General of the Federation. The prime suspect there says that he works for Abu Bakr Malami, but the AGF, of course, is denying it, saying that he's a case of a drowning man scavenging for a dying partner. Does this in any way also indict the AGF? My, my silence reminds me that it should be utterly impossible for people who don't engage the rest of them on such a high place, Nigeria, without getting motivation from some person's power. Now, you have helped my case by the scenario he just pointed, that Malami is denying. Somebody is saying it's a consultant to Malami, Malami is denying. All these deniers, you don't have a reason, is those guys who are arrested right on this fault and they are questioned immediately why are you indebted to the residents of this justice or the Supreme Court? But because, because it's taking us two weeks, but for us to come to this situation now, you are going to be hearing all manners of dirty accusations, counter-acquisitions, and before you say, you're cropping things, this matter will be settled and it happens. I'm saying that we need a personal police system. We need a proactive police system, not a reactive one. Particularly in Abuja, where you have smooth roads, you have vehicles for the police headquarters, where you have the profession, where you have intelligence because both the DSS, both police, NIA, all of them in Abuja and they are barely one kilometer, one and a half kilometers from this woman's residence. So my mind is that I want to thank God on behalf of Justice Mary Odili for her life and for being able to remain stoic. So the point that she was able to raise a number of calls to people who immediately drove to the scene of incident. And because you are doing a different story altogether, each way to have been killed, and today we'll be singing stories of claims, counter-plains, acquisitions, and counter-acquisitions. May God continue to prolong our life. Yeah, Mr. Fegwa, isn't this one controversy too much for the Attorney General of the Federation? It feels like every three weeks maximum, there is something new that he's involved with, something really controversial. And so is this, would you expect at a time like this, he should probably be asked to step down? The NBA, the Nigerian Bar Association has made mention of possibilities of taking away his senior advocate of Nigeria title and some of all of that. But shouldn't this be enough for actual questions to be asked of the AGF? You see, when you have a government that does not have a turn on the job leadership, that is why you see a creation of subnational leadership that was in the power of the president. No doubt the Attorney General is very, very powerful in this government because there is crafting competence in the system, there's lack of capacity. So everybody is rocking the name of the commander in chief. Oh, the President should do this, the President should do this, the President should do this. So because we hardly hear from the president, he's not interacting, he's not conversational, he doesn't dialogue. So at sessions who occupy certain transitive positions in government, we want to play the role of the President. So the Attorney General has become one of consciousness power by confronting powerless conscience. We are powerless, but we have conscience. So for me, it is what you have as a government that is giving rise to this kind of consciousness power. So I'm expecting that the NBA should go into this without equivocation and take the right steps to right the wrongs. It may be just this morning today, it may be you and me tomorrow. What is kushia is for us to begin to realize that there is a government in place and there is a personal police system in place that will rise up to the equation. But because this government is notorious for invention, having done that to a lot of judges of the courts is very difficult for us to eradicate them and eradicate the Attorney General from the present reality. And that is where we are at this stage. Okay. Now, let's just say with the issue of the NBA, I mean the response, a lot of persons have described this as an attack on the judiciary and democracy, however, and that the response of the NBA is not enough. And they've also said that the NBA is a tootless dog. Do you think it's okay for those who are saying that there should be a call that the Attorney General of the Federation should resign? You know, Nigerians don't ever resign. I remember when I resigned my appointment in 2009 as Chief Prosecutor to Adam Shomoli. People said, are you mad? What's wrong with you? Do you find most of the government you are resigning? I said, yes, because I do not see that this will fulfill my aspirations. The work environment wasn't conducive for me. So I took a honorable estimate. But in this client, you have the people who are resigning from positions. So anybody calling you a Attorney General who is so powerful, who to me is more right or less like an autonomous president, cannot explain the Attorney General to resign. But it's a good call. The NBA is to mount further pressure and take the rightful step to ensure that this attack on the judiciary is addressed once and for all. And it's also a reminder to the judges and justices of the Supreme Court that they should not continue to cultivate all manners of virtualities in the way a man has dispensed injustice. They should wake up to serve the Nigerian Federation by delivering judgments and giving bodies that are grounded in law and not in politics. So this is a collective responsibility on all of us. Grant the judiciary some level of autonomy, financial autonomy. They don't go cap in hand. They give all the time for finances that they will use to run the operations of the judiciary. We are putting arms of government, the legislature, the executive team and the judiciary. They should operate independent of one another in terms of financial autonomy so that they will have the confidence to take decisions that will have far-reaching positive impact on the psyche of the ordinary Nigerian. All right. Mr. Afibar, what should we expect next from the police if we, of course, were working in a sane environment? Would we expect that these persons should be fully prosecuted and, of course, serve time if that's what the law says? Of course, they will be prosecuted. They will kick lawyers or they want to be defended and all that. I just want the situation where certain persons are not sacrificed or the author of trying to protest somebody's job. I want the police to do a thorough job. I trust the capacity of the present IG to rise up to the occasion and we must let Nigerians know exactly what issues are. They must be transparent in their investigation. They must be open to all of us. It must not be conducted in secret. If they want to avail those who are arrested, we are positive for us to hear from them so that public police are not kept on the ramps. So are you saying that it's possible that the 14 persons that have been paraded by the police could be taking the fall for others? It's not about, it's not, yes, you know, anything is possible in this country. Nigeria has stopped amissing me because what you think is impossible, you see it happening right before our very eyes and before you say the problem you're saying, the issues become that of the past. What I'm saying yesterday is that you must be transparent as the police force to ensure that you carry the public alone. There are so many who resolve more that this is all about the police. There are persons who have been arrested. What has been the outcome? So what I'm saying is that, for invading somebody's property, something hard for certain in society, and for past 100 persons who have been arrested, I just pray that there will not be sacrifice for the other, for protecting somebody's husband. Absolutely. Kasima Febuah, of course, former commissioner for information at those states and former spokesperson for Ibrahim Bada Mossebo-Bangida. Thank you so much. I am not former spokesman. I'm still spokesman. Oh, still spokesman. Apologies. Please correct me. Apologies, Mr. Febuah. Thank you so much for your time this morning and we wish you a beautiful weekend. Thank you for coming through. All right. Stay with us. Our next conversation takes us to talk in healthcare, COVID-19, and of course, what next as a country with regards to preparations for health emergencies. We'll talk about it when we come back. Stay with us.