 Hey everybody, today we're debating whether or not Islam is violent and we are starting right now. With T-Jump's opening statement, thanks so much for being with us, T-Jump. The floor is all yours. Hey guys, how's it going? So the question is, is Islam violent? And in order to know if an ideology is violent, the best way is to look at the people who support the ideology. If we compare crime and violence of Islamic countries to crime and violence of secular countries, we clearly see that Islamic countries are far more violent than secular countries. And many ways. For example, the number of teen pregnancy, rape, child marriage, abuse of women, slavery. All of these are significantly higher in Muslim countries for some reason. And maybe it has nothing to do with Islam. It's just coincidence that the vast majority of world terrorism is committed by Muslims, just completely unrelated to their religious belief, even though they are literally citing their religious belief in every one of their actions. But it seems far more likely that we should just take these people at their word and they say that they're doing this in the name of Islam. It doesn't really matter if our speakers like to interpret it differently, they have a different interpretation of the Quran. Doesn't make a difference. Because there's no way to show that their personal interpretation is any more valid than the interpretation of the terrorists. And so the terrorist interpretation, which leads to violence is equally as valid as our opponents interpretation. And so it is equally as likely to be a valid way to be a Muslim. And so, yes, Islam is absolutely violent. We can say it because Muslims who use the Quran as their justification act in violent ways based on the Quran. So, yes, it's violent, it's all I need to say. You got to kick it over to Armin. Thanks so much, Armin. The floor is all yours. Who's also taking the yes position, namely arguing that Islam is violent. Thanks so much, Armin. The floor is all yours. Right. So just to clarify, we're talking about unjustified violence and yes, Islam is violent. But I rather look at scripture to judge a religion rather than the people. I consider Christianity to also be violent, even if Christians are not violent, the scripture is violent. And, you know, many people within the religions don't really follow their scripture accurately. So I think going to the scripture itself to see what the religion teaches is the best way to judge whether religion is has any, you know, whatever we want to say about it, like it's violent or not or anything else, that's that's the source. Okay. So when it comes to Islam, the main sources of scripture are Koran and Hadith. And there's a whole bunch of disagreements over Hadith and which Hadith, like, especially modern times, even some Hadiths that were considered very authentic for the past 1200 years have been like some modern reformists are trying to question them because they're just horrible books. So just to make it keep it simple, I try to focus on the Koran because Muslims don't seem to have a disagreement over that at all. So if you just stick to the Koran rather than going to the Hadith, there's plenty of examples in the Koran that shows that this is a religion that has a lot of incitement to unjustified violence. And usually I could categorize it in four different, I don't know if I have time to read a couple of examples, but there are verses that direct Muslims to kill the disbelievers. I could discuss how do they justify that and how do they say that it doesn't apply to today, that's the excuse for then. And there's also some direction of violence towards Musharkeen or direction of violence towards for certain actions that like corruption and corruption has not been defined very clearly, which opens the door to a lot of uses of the verses for violence because it opens the door for any interpretation of what corruption really means. There's a lot of incitement to violence against women and also if we include the afterlife, the Koran is obsessed about torturing disbelievers. So if you want to include for the mere crime of not believing in Islam or in the Koran or Muhammad, it goes into a lot of gruesome detail about what's going to happen to people like me, especially people like me because I'm an apostate, I used to be a Muslim and I left Islam and the Koran is very, very clear about what happens to people who don't believe in a message in the message of Islam. Do I have time to read some examples of these violent verses? Just a couple of minutes, yeah. OK, so one example is fight a fight against those who do not believe in Allah or in the last day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and his messengers have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth, which is Islam, from those who were given the scripture, fight until they give the jizya willingly while they are humbled. So that was one. Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and his messengers and strive upon corruption is this is the vague one, but it means by corruption is none but that they are they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land that is for them at this grace in this world. So and then the next one is the wife beating one, which tells you that, you know, the last part of it is to strike, strike the woman, strike the woman who are being disobedient or you fear disobedience from them. There's two earlier steps for the last step. If they still disobedient, if you still fear disobedience, it says strike them. But if they obey, you could you could forgive them. So that's Surah four, ayah 34. And the last one I want to read about the hereafter about the afterlife. It says, indeed, those who disbelieve in our verses, we will drive them into a fire every time their skins are roasted through. We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment. Indeed, Allah is exalted and mighted wise. So these are just a couple of examples. I just want to say there are hundreds, hundreds of examples for each type of these types of violence that I mentioned in the Koran, and the Koran is extremely obsessive over what will happen to people like me who do not, who have left us, who are don't believe in the message of Allah and it can like anybody who reads the Koran cover to cover would be very clear. It is almost extremely clear about the intentions of the message of the Koran. And so a lot of Muslims will argue that this is supposed to be some of these verses are supposed to be for a specific time and a specific battle. But if you actually read the Koran, you could see that the main problem that Allah has with these people is their disbelief and that these judgments applies to all disbelievers at all time. And it's not specifically for a certain time and a certain place. Anyways, you got it. We'll kick it over to our Muslim side. Want to say, folks, if it's your first time here, welcome to modern day debate. We are a neutral platform hosting debates on science, religion and politics. We hope you feel welcome no matter what walk of life you are from. And don't forget to hit that subscribe button because we have many more juicy debates coming up. For example, at the bottom right of your screen, did dinosaurs live with man? That's coming up this next Thursday. You don't want to miss that debate as well as others. So hit that subscribe button. And with that, thanks so much, perfect Dawah and Rashid. The floor is all yours for your opening as well. All right. Thank you, James, for the opportunity. So I'll start that is Islam violent. It depends on which Islam we talk about because there are two different Islam ones. One is a man made Islam based on fabricated hadithes and one is the true Islam of Quran. The man made Islam of hadithes is violent and barbaric. And as a Muslim, the biggest enemy of that barbaric Islam. And I have been fighting it in 43 years. Muslims are the biggest victims of these barbarians like ISIS, Taliban and Iranian fascist regime on another side. The Islam of Quran is most merciful and forgiving that encourages me to be patient and forgiving. Quran chapter 42 verse 43 and whoever is patient and forgives. Indeed, that is of the matters requiring determination. Chapter 23 verse 96. Oh, Muhammad repel evil in the best manner. We are well aware of all that they say about you. Quran chapter four verse 135. Oh, believers, stand firm for justice as witness for Allah. Even if it is against yourself, your parents or close relatives, be they rich or poor, Allah is best to ensure their interest refrain from following your own desires so so that you do not act unjustly. If you conceal the true, Allah is fully aware of what you do. Islam is not a passive religion and has a guidance for every situation. So when people are attacked by enemies, Islam gives them the right to fight back. But that permission is only in self defense and only as long as sorry, and only as the last option and as long as they fight. Quran chapter eight verse 61. And if they incline to peace, then incline to it also and rely upon Allah. Indeed, it is he who is the hearing, the knowing. Quran chapter two verse 190. Fight in the cause of Allah only against those who wage war against you, but do not exceed the limits. Allah does not like transgressors. There are many more verses of Quran to read, which teaches us the same meaning of being merciful and forgiving. Another problem that leads some Muslims to extreme ideas is misinterpretation of unspecific verses of Quran. For example, the word kafir in Quran has been translated as disbelief and almost all translation translated as disbelief, which is absolutely wrong. Quran chapter 16 verse 83. They recognize the favor of Allah, then they deny it. And most of them are kafir in this verse. Allah says most of disbelievers are kafir, not all. So if kafir is disbelief, then all of them should be kafir. Kafir is rejecting Allah's commands, which is Quran chapter 16 verse 90. Indeed, Allah orders justice and doing good deeds and giving good to relatives and forbids immorality and bad deeds and oppression. He admonishes you, you that perhaps you will be reminded. So rejecting these commands, which is doing good deeds and giving to relatives and needy and taking care of orphans and is kafir, whether you believe in Allah or not, Quran chapter 107 verse 12 verse 7. Have you seen the one who denies the religion? That is the one who repulses the orphan and does not encourage the feeding of the food. So who to those who pray yet are not mindful of their prayer. Those who only show off and refuse to give even the simplest aid. So according to Quran, those who pray but yet repulse the orphans and do and don't feed the poor are the same as those disbelievers who do the same. Their prayers are just showing up. So true Muslim is just the one who is merciful for giving, being merciful, sorry, giving to relatives, needy, being just and taking care of the orphans. And doing all other good deeds. Thank you. With that, we'll kick it over to Rashid. Thanks so much for being with us. You're muted. Thanks very much. We'll kick it over to Rashid. The floor is all yours for your opening as well. Yes, thank you very much for hosting me today. As Muji also said, yes, I am in the agreement that it depends very much on how you see Islam, for example. I also believe that Islam is not a monolith, that it's not one specific thing, that there are definitely certain violent aspects of Islam, but of course, if we want to get to the actual true understanding of Islam, then we have to look at the scriptures as Amin also said, because those are what define the actual religion, if you like. And it depends on how people interpret it. So if people would interpret it in a negative way, and then you could say that, OK, those people have a violent understanding of that particular scripture or of that particular ideology, but the ideology itself cannot be. It could be that the ideology itself is not violent, but people interpret it in that way. So I would go also here within the scripture itself and try to assess whether the scripture does, in fact, call to unjustified violence. So specifically, that kind of violence that is, as I said, unjustified. And I don't believe that it does specifically if you look at the Quran and also several hadiths. I think that there is certain contradictions between some of the messages that do seep through from the hadiths and if you compare them with what the Quran is actually trying to tell you or the message of the Quran. And you have to look at it as an overall message. You can't just say Islam violent. No, you have to look at it as a whole. For example, if you're looking at a scripture itself, the Quran, you can just take this verse says this. So that means that the entire scripture is preaching violence. No, there are counter verses within the Quran that do call to goodness, that do call to nonviolent activities. So what do you do with those? Do you discard all those? Some people have decided to go that route where they say, all those ones were abrogated by other verses, by the more violent verses. That is a route that I myself do not uphold, but they are allowed to do so. So for me, in short, I have to say that if we are to look at it from the scripture itself and we are because this is the scripture that every Muslim would agree that is from God, then we I have to disagree there 100 percent that no Islam is not is not violent in that in that sense. Thank you. You got to thank you very much. And with that, we're going to kick into the open discussion mode. Want to let you know, folks, hey, if you enjoy debates like these, consider hitting that share button below and sharing it with someone else that enjoys debates like these as we are striving to provide a fair platform so that everybody can make their case, whether it be Muslim, atheist, you name it with that, we're going to jump into open conversation. Thank you very much to our guests. The floor is all yours. But can we just jump right in? How does this work? Yeah, you just jump right in. So like, why do you think your subjective interpretation of Islam is which you think is nonviolent is the correct one? Because it seems like the vast majority of Muslims don't agree with your subjective interpretation. So why would God write a message that only you can interpret correctly in the vast majority of Muslims can't? All right. If I would answer that, I would like to say that it is God could send this is how God has decided to send his message. God could send us now a new messenger with splitting the moon every day so that everybody believed. But we are not the one who should just ask God why he did this, why he didn't do that. There are many things that you can ask God. All right. So the message is there. It is I believe that he tries to to test us to test our intelligence as well. So it is up to us to understand that, for example, Armin said that Quran says these believers should will be what is it will be punished in here after. And I read for him verses of Quran that clearly says that it is not these believers is Kuffar and Kuffar has been misinterpreted. OK, and it is for any any rational person can understand that when Quran says they recognize the favor of Allah, then they deny it. So it means these believers. OK, and it says and most of them are kafir. So those who misinterpreted or they don't take this, they don't look at it. They don't care about it. OK, so you it's I'm talking to you. I'm not talking about those who misinterpreted. So you see yourself here. It's either contradiction or this one, this verse clearly and many other verses clearly tells us that these believers, sorry, Kuffar are those who those who and set in chapter one. Can you let it can you answer shorter so we can get in as well? Yes, because if we ask a small question and then you go for a long, a long time, then it's going to be you lecturing us and we just like asking. So like, let me jump in right now. OK, so first of all, you know, T jump is making good points for, you know, there is there are a lot of well-meaning Muslims that are trying to look at the Quran and try to come up with the most obvious interpretation of them. And a vast majority of them are coming out with conclusions that doesn't agree with yours. OK. And are they going to be punished for the lack of intelligence? Because like, first of all, if you're saying like, oh, you need to just be smart enough to understand that what I'm saying is true, doesn't seem like a fair message. Like it's like God judging people based on intelligent levels. Like that doesn't make any sense, right? But, you know, the part about the verse that you mentioned that you say this is the Quran, it says Kuffar doesn't mean unbelievers. Technically true. Basically means unbelievers are a subcategory of Koffers because Koffers are all the people that are ungrateful for what Allah does. Like it believes himself could be a Koffer because even though he believes in Allah, he is very ungrateful for his for everything he does. But I don't believe unbelievers are necessarily Koffers because they don't even believe in God, so they are ungrateful. So it covers all the unbelievers, even it doesn't necessarily means that there are that there's a Koffer necessarily means ungrateful. Like the most if you read the Quran and the most best explanation what Koffer is supposed to represent is a person that sees the message, sees the signs of Allah, but he still doesn't. He's not very grateful to his message, right? This is this is this is the interpretation for the past 1300 years, and this is what every tafsir, every commentary on the Quran every of every scholar, Arab speaking caller has represented. And only in recent times when we have better moral standards in our society, people who try to pretend like the Quran has better moral systems, they're coming out and reinterpreting the Quran, pretending like for that for 1300 years, that the vast majority of every single person that had looked at the Quran and tried to interpret it has got it wrong. And only recently, Moushtaba has come and is enlightening us that, you know, 1200 years or 1300 years worth of scholarly work has all been wrong. If the if your God cannot come up with a book that is is clear enough for people for this for all these people to get wrong, either he's basically either he's promoting unjustified violence or he's just extremely poor at communicating, OK, for you to be able to get that and all these Muslims getting it wrong, OK, another thing that is like when you're saying there's justice in the Quran, the justice that the Quran is advocating for is justice for Muslims is a just is a Islamic version of justice. And also the piece that is the Quran is advocating is a piece where the enemies of Islam are humiliated and they're humbled and they submit to Muslims. That's the piece that is that is advocating for and also a piece when every all religion in the world is as long. OK, and also the verse that I read to you when it says that. Just one thing was the same thing. I can give you another chance, but just good point. This is also a long response. Yes, you're right. All right. Let me maybe Rashid would like to respond or or else I will respond. Rashid, would you respond or shall I respond? I would like to say just a few things. One thing, one simple thing on your own that that is just your own interpretation. If we are limiting it to this particular question that we have on the debate to the Islam violence, if as a woman, what's his name? T. John T. T. John T. OK, as he was as he was saying that why is it that we have to agree with your interpretation, if there are many interpretations out there which disagree from yours, I would say that if we are limiting it to this particular question that we have today, if you were to go around and ask the majority of Muslims, is Islam violent, I am sure that the majority of them would say no. What is violence? If because you were saying before that, OK, we have to look at the people. That's what you opened with in your opening statement. You say that we have to look at what people. What is violence? Let me get to that. I said that you said we have to look at the people. So if if we are going with your understanding of how of whether Islam is violent or not. And we went around and asked people, is Islam violent? Then the majority of them would say no. If you don't care what they think, what they think doesn't matter. What is violence? But but then that's just going against your own question. Your own. No, no. What their personal interpretation of if they think Islam is violent doesn't matter if they're murdering people, they're murdering lots of people and they think they're being seen doesn't matter what they think. So tell me what is violence? OK, yeah, Tijam, you take just some example in Muslim countries that has the route it has to do with politics. You take that one. For example, you don't take North Korea. You don't take, you know, Marxism or Adolf Hitler, who yes, they're also violent. Those are also those two. So what again, so it doesn't have. So it is not about it's not about the scripture. As Armin said, you have to go to the scripture, not what people do. For example, for example, I can give you Armin can can say it right now. OK, Armin can can what is it? Confirm it right now. For example, there was a terrorist. Iranian terrorist was captured 2018 in Belgium. He was going to blow up me and my family and many other Iranian in Paris. He got 20 years. I don't care. I'm just going to tell you now. Belgium is going to release him because I don't care because of some oil. You know, some oil. So I don't care to you. Don't care is violence. Yeah, when you bring it up. OK, so it was yeah, killing violence, killing innocent people. That's violent, but that doesn't have anything to do with the scripture. OK, why why people do that? That's because of, you know, some interest they have. They can use the language. They can use the race. They can use color. They can use like religion, like religion. They can use as well. Yes, they can use like people leaving the religion being killed for leaving the religion. Those are innocent. That's absolutely wrong. We do not agree with that. There is nothing in Koran that say that you have the right to kill, for example, arming just because he doesn't believe in something. There is if you give me a single verse in Koran that says that army should be killed because of that. OK, then I leave his law. There is no. OK, I have a verse. I have a verse. OK, can you give me the verse? Yes, please. Yeah, it's Surah Toba, a verse twenty nine. OK, and this one doesn't mention Kaffir. This one mentioned specifically the people who don't believe. OK, so it says fight against those who do not believe in Allah. OK, and I already read the rest to you. The Arabic version is doesn't mention the Kaffir. It says. So do those this specifically translates to those who do not believe in Allah and the other day. So in Allah or the hereafter and it goes on. OK, so I think your excuse for this is going to be that this was specifically talking about a war at the time of Muhammad and the people who didn't believe at the time of Muhammad. Is that your excuse for this? Because I have a response to that. No, no, no, no. If you continue, OK, later Allah says fight as long as they fight. OK, OK, until they give the jizya. It doesn't say until I find until they give the jizya. OK, so it says like basically basically was saying it says fight them until they submit to you and they pay you money. So if they're giving you the tax, if you're if they're paying for the fact that they're not Muslim, that's when you stop fighting them. That's what the verse is. No, no, I mean, ISIS and Taliban, they take also one verse and say this is all. OK, when you put this verse, I know, look, I have, I have. Wait, I say when you put this verse beside other verses that say Allah does does not forbid you from those who do not fight you and do not expel you. Chapter I think is chapter 60 verse eight. OK, Allah does not forbid you from those when it doesn't say Muslims, those who do not fight you and do not. Brother Rashid, can you please because I haven't memorized it. It tells you that if you if they submit to you, basically, no, no, no, no, it doesn't say it doesn't say it does. OK, let me bring it for you. Brother Rashid, maybe you have it in your mind until otherwise I will bring it for him. Yeah, yeah, I do. I don't have it. Yes, OK, let me let me read it for you. Chapter 60 verse eight, Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your way. What? What? What? Tell me the Quran's Surah and verse. What chapter? Chapter 60 verse eight. OK, Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of your religion and do not expel you from from your from your home homes from being righteous towards them and act acting justly towards them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. Allah only Allah only. This is the next one. Forbeats you from those who fight you because of religion. Yes, from your home. This is a Macon. It is there is no Macon. This is a Macon. This is if you read the tafsir. If you read it, so I said it. Sorry, what? It's not not a Macon. It's OK. No, OK, so yeah, if you actually read the tafsir on this one, this is specifically about the Mohajireen and the people that they came to Medina, right, and about their families and stuff like that, right? So it's very interesting that when we have specific Quranic verses telling you that you shouldn't be friend, people who do who are not Muslims, people who have a different religion. And you also have verses that tells you the Lacum, Dina, Convalio, Dain. So to everybody, there's own religion. Everybody could have their own religion. And it's very interesting because when we point to the verses, so all of these verses exist, OK, there are verses that teach you that, OK, like that people have their religion and also tells you there are verses that tell you to kill people of other religions. OK, these do both of these verses exist in the Quran. But when we when you point to the verses that are sound peaceful, you do not want to take it in context because when you take it in context, it makes makes and the time and what what Muhammad was going through when it receives those verses, it shows that he was being strategic. He was being political. But when we point to the verses that are problematic, then all of a sudden you like want to be like, I look at the context. And the interesting thing is that whenever you claim that we should put it in the context, you don't actually take the effort to put it in context, because when we put it in context, actually makes it a lot worse. So what about the verse that before without jumping to another verse? What about let's say for OK, let me submit this to you. OK, let's say there are verses in the Quran that are very peaceful, that encourage Muslims to be friend, people of other religion. What what does that erase all the verses that I'm showing you that shows that the Quran is encouraging you to kill unbelievers? You didn't acknowledge the verse that I just read you. How do you just let me tell you, let me tell you, I mean, first of all, you have to how do you justify the verse that I just read you? It tells you to kill the people who don't believe in Allah. I tell you that chapter three verse seven says that on specific verses, the true interpretation of on specific verses of Quran is known by Allah and those firming knowledge. What those firming knowledge do? Why do you why do you give me verses? Then what then if you if you're telling me, OK, if you're telling me that I cannot, I cannot give you a clear verse that kills you, tells you that you have to kill the unbelievers, you're telling me like, OK, that this is a has a hidden message. Then you cannot give me peace and you cannot give me peaceful verses and tell me that has a peaceful message. I mean, I didn't say that. I said you are not hearing knowledge, so you cannot understand it. People of firming knowledge can understand it. How they understand it? How they understand it? They put it beside other verses of Quran. OK, I did. OK, they put beside other verses of Quran that they and they understand it, like, for example, when Prophet Muhammad wait makes you do this for me, you do this for me. OK, please do this for me. OK, put this Quranic verse that I just gave you, put it in the required context for us and tell us how this is versus justified, the verse that specifically is saying qatalu allazina yawminu nabal Allah, kill those who do not believe in Allah, in what context this verse is justified. OK, Brother Rashid, you want to respond? Otherwise, I can respond and you go ahead. Then I will. All right, OK, OK, look, the army. So when you see that all these verses, when you see that Prophet Muhammad, when he what is it when he make the peace agreement with the pagans and with the Jews, he say that now we are a united Oma. And from that moment, these verses are obligated from that moment. Not a single Muslim has the right to go and kill the pagans and what is it, the Jews. OK, and that peace, even the order came that even if they provoke you, you have no right to to respond. OK, so these verses are as long as they fight you. Quran says many, many verses that you fight them as long as that verse is as long as they fight you when they stop fighting, you stop fighting, too, because a lot does not like those who transgress. OK, so you don't understand that such that. OK, let me put that verse and if you want to put verses next to each other, then I'm going to tell you based on this other verse that I'm going to read you. It tells you that the moment that you have to stop fighting is the moment when all religion are for a law, all religion or Islam. It says fight against them until there's no fit now, until the religion is for a law. That's when you see this is Koran chapter eight verse 39. So you're telling me that the Koran teaches you that when that battle is over, that's abrogated and for now we don't have to kill the unbelievers anymore. This verse says that you have to continue fighting until every religion is as long. I told you, I want to get a chance to respond perfect hour or Rashid, but then I want to go over to T jump just to get him involved as well after not. Yes, not a single verse of Koran say kill unbeliever. I told you I did I read you. God to law. Allazina. This doesn't say I don't believe in Allah. It specifically says don't believe in Allah. OK, then you put it beside other verses of Koran that there is no compulsion in religion. OK, I just read another verse that tells you that continue fighting. I tell everything is as long. I just put you. I just put it right next to another verse for you. It's through eight verse 39. All right. So what is it? Army. So when the Prophet Muhammad is running wrote that agreement with the with the Mushrikun or Coppa or whatever you call them. Okay. And he said, now we are a united Oma. Okay. Am I right, brother Rashid or not? He said that now we are a united Oma. And he ordered his followers that you do not fight them fight them even if they provoke you. Okay. So they had no right to go and kill them or, you know, to do anything even when he or how do you know that was how do you know that that was not his order? First of all, now you're taking stuff that is outside of the Quran. This is part of the revival. How do you know that that commandment from Muhammad was not specifically for that specific place and that specific time because you have Muhammad making a commandment to Muslims for that specific time and say like, Hey, don't stop right now. Don't fight anymore. But you have the Quran telling you to fight until every religion is Islam. Okay. Look, fighting is not always by thought. I'm now it says, God, it says, kill them. It says, God, hello. It says, God, God, God, God, kill them. Brother Rashid, would you like to to respond, please? Yes. I mean, and looking at that verse, for example, it is specifically, of course, targeted towards the people of the book. Would you agree to that? No, it says, God, Allah, Allah, Allah, Allah, Allah, Allah, Allah, Allah, Allah, Allah, Allah. That includes me. I am not okay. So let me read the English fight against those people, those who do not believe in Allah or in the last day and not or not also and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and his messengers have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth, which is Islam from from those who were given the scripture. Okay. Fight until they give the jizya. Okay. Who is he talking about? Is he talking about regular people or the people of the book? The people of the book includes the Jews and the Christians and also Muslims who are, you know, who left Islam, because I have been also given the book. Well, not entirely, but I am I specifically says people who have been given the scripture. I used to be Muslim. So I also have been given the scripture. Well, that's that's a bit of a stretch that you would take it that far. But okay, fine. Thank you for not including me. Let's say it's just telling you to kill the Christian. Oh, okay. So sure. It's not bad. It's just telling you to kill Christians and Jews. You asked me a question. So I tried to respond, but go on. I said I was saying that it's not talking about that. What you're saying about people leaving the Dean or about people leaving religion. It's specifically talking about the relationship that was being on between the Muslims at the time or the Prophet at the time and the Christians and the Jews who are the people who are who are from Ahlul Kitab. Now if I ask, for example, as you also read, it says that those who are living a lie, you don't have to be a lie. You want to be young in action. So I am asking you, do you know of any Christian or Jew who does not uphold these things, those two things? Yeah, but Allah? Yeah, like who doesn't believe in God on the last day from the people. I know specifically, okay, so you're really stretching here. You're really this is as long. You're really stretching here. I am asking a simple question. The verse says, fight those who do not have. You're saying this is an empty verse that does not understand anybody that exists. I'm not saying it's empty. Again, you are concluding from my statements. Okay, okay, you're telling me that this verse, I'm asking a question. I'm asking you a question. Okay, are you telling me that this verse is referring to nobody because a Christian based on the way, okay, who is it referring to? Who are we supposed to kill? Yeah, I said that. Okay, this verse is particularly targeted towards a group from the book. Okay, so in order to understand what it's actually read talking about, you need to understand the relationship between the Prophet and also the Ahl al-Kitab, okay? Who's the Rasul, who's the Rasul in this verse? Hani, you asked, let me respond please. Okay, go ahead. Thank you. You have to look at the relationship that was going on between the Prophet and also Al-Adina. That's what I'm asking, which Prophet? The Prophet Muhammad. Let's assume that he's the one who received this scripture. Let's go with that. So this verse is particularly talking about the relationship between the Prophet and the people who are considered Al-Adina, who were given the scripture. So you have to look at the relationship that was, what led to this verse, for example, was there something that unjustified or justified this verse? Okay, so look at that. And how was the relationship between Muhammad and the Christians? I understand your point. I can make your point faster. You're saying that this was specifically by the group of people and justified this response, okay? That's what your point is, right? Yes. Okay, so but there's a few problems with what you're saying. This is what I was rushing to try to get there. First of all, is this people who do not believe in his messenger? Specifically, this messenger means Muhammad, right? So Christians and Jewish, Jewish people today, this will cover them, right? So anybody, but also if you say that this was time to give just any sort of response, I was just going to answer Rashid's question. I've said it many times ago. So I do want to at some point, it's good to just kind of keep it fresh and have everybody go ahead. Yeah, let me tell you. Much about that, Thomas, because James said Thomas should talk to you. Did Muhammad behead 600, 700 people after they surrendered? Yes, much about probably. No, definitely not. No. So you're saying that's just all the muslims believe that are just wrong? That's a historical mistake? No, I don't say it. No, I don't say it. I just say that these are fabricated stories that have been, because first of all, the vast majority of muslim historians are just wrong. A lot of them. Okay, a lot of them. I don't know how many of them say that, but vast majority. This is controversial because this is even the source. Some says that. Let me say some say 600, some say 700, some say 900. I don't care about the number. How many? No, some says first of all, and then some says they were killed. What number do you say? Some says in this. I don't know what number do you say? Oh my God. There is no such a number, I say. You say it's zero. You say it's zero. They were not killed the way they say, okay? They were, they were, they were battles, okay? In the battles, people get killed, but in Quran, you have no right to kill the prisoners of war. Okay, those who become prisoners, Quran specifically says that keep them until the war laid down, or you can run from them. And we know that. Let me read. So you're saying that Muhammad never, ever killed a prisoner of war, ever? No, never, ever. Because in the battle of, in the battle of Badr, for example, when he saw his soldiers have tied enemies' hands and drove them, he became angry with them, and he said, open their hands, treat them well, give them your food equally with them, and each prisoner who teach 10 Muslim reading and writing go free. And this is exactly according Quran. Let me respond. Well, that's magic. So you're talking about here's magic because literally any war that has prisoners, many of the prisoners die. It's like in all history, especially back then. So what you're saying is magic. He magic to them and didn't kill them like every other war that's ever happened in all of history. And you're rejecting the vast majority of historians, both secular and Jewish and Christian and Muslim who just look into history and confirm these things. They're all wrong. Didn't happen in magic. Okay, let me tell you, because it's fine. It was against Quran. Okay, it's nice. That's nice. So did Muhammad order the torturing of the Canaan guy? I don't know. The guy who the guy that drink the camel's urine, and they they stole the sheep, and then he I think it's not of course not. So also fictions completely made up history of Muhammad is all wrong. Look, look, look, I tell you that anything goes against I said it before we start, I said to Armin, anything goes against Quran is fabricated. The Quran goes against the Quran. No, no. Prophet Bob, we are talking about Quran, okay? And Quran says, look, and Quran discourages such a thing. Quran. The Quran has verses that encourages certain things and then it discourages in some other places and then it advocates is completely in direct opposition. You guys come up and say, or you abrogate the other one. There is no consistency in the Quran. Where it says that you have the right to torture people in Quran. For example, okay, let me first go this one. Where does it say it doesn't? Okay, first we go this verse about Christian that you mentioned. Okay, and then we go about that torture. Okay, Quran, you said about Christian Quran chapter two verse 62, those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians and Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the last day and do righteous good deeds shall have their rewards with their Lord. On them shall be no fear nor shall they grieve. Chapter three verse 113. Not all of them are like of the people of the book are a portion that stand fear. Sorry, for the right, they rehearse the verses of God. Okay, long. So no, it says, it says, okay, Quran 551 says, all you who believe do not take Jews and Christians as allies. They are, they are in fact allies of one another and whoever is an ally to them among you, then indeed he is one of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people. It's like you say, like, oh, befriend, like there's so many pro-Jewish and Christian verses. This verse very specifically tells Muslims to do not befriend Jews and Christians. Let me to read for you. Chapter three verse seven. It is he who has sent down to you, O Muhammad. Okay, Mashallah, I agree. Those verses, those verses, okay, let me let me agree with you. Let me agree with you. Okay, there are verses in the Quran that tells Muslims that, hey, be peaceful, don't kill anybody, and befriend Christians and Jews. Okay, those verses do not erase the verses that I'm reading you that tells you to literally do the opposite. Okay, let me let me read for you, please. One second is just a few seconds. Okay, it says they sent you the book in it. There are verses that are precise. They are the foundation of the book and other unspecific. As for those whose heart is, you know, corrupted, like ISIS, Taliban, and unfortunately, I don't want to call you, but you also do the same. They will follow that of it, which is unspecific. Like they say, oh, here this verse say, kill Jews or I don't know, things that don't take Jews. And so look about the wife. Okay, let's talk about what about the wife beating verse? That's the most clear one in the Quran, the one that tells you to beat your wife. How do you explain that one? It never says beat your wife. It says leave you. Okay, let me read. Oh my God. Are you serious? Okay, I'm very serious. Okay. Let me read for you. Armin, do you know which which word is used? Azrabahunna. Okay, let me let me read for you. Okay, strike. Okay. Okay, here. Armin, strike has been used in Quran in many, many verses. Quran chapter 43 verse five says, strike is ignored. Shall we utterly ignore you because you are one fault? Okay, chapter four verse 101 strike is trouble. Chapter 18 verse 11 strikes about you should okay. So, so wait, wait, wait, wait, I told you, I told you, this is these are these verses are mushabi heart in Quran, when you put it beside other verses, you get the true meaning of it. So in that chapter, sorry, every, every single, every single Arabic scholar has translated that as Azrabahunna. Let me just tell you, every single Arabic scholar has translated Yazrabahunna as to strike your wife. Okay. The only people then there are a couple of modern new ages Muslims who are for the first time after 1300 years are translating this word into leaving. Okay, but I have something to read to you. Okay, what you're saying, I'm reading this from the book, The Atheist Muslims by Ali Rizvi. Okay, it says, to anybody who is actually familiar with the Arabic language will tell you that these new age interpreters couldn't be more wrong and you don't even need to know Arabic to understand it. Why? Take a look at the word hit in the following phrases. Hit the road, hit the lights, hit the goal, hit the bottle, hit me up, hit up a bar, hit the woman. Okay. So for example, even though hits means different things in these phrases for anybody who speaks English, it's very clear that hit the woman in the last one needs to strike the woman. Or for example, strike a deal, strike a balance, strike up a conversation, go on a strike, strike a woman. Okay. To anybody who understands English, they know strike in those other examples means something else, but anybody who knows English knows strike a woman in the last one means to hit a woman. Anybody, any adult speaking person that reads that Quranic verse will tell you that this clearly, clearly doesn't mean those other meanings of yes, it means to strike a woman. It's absolutely, I mean, you're not being dishonest, but people who know Arabic, if they're telling you that it means something else, they're being absolutely, they're being dishonest about what this word means. It's clearly about why it's beating. They're even Hadid specifically referring to this Quranic verse, clarifying that this is about beating your wife, but go on. Okay. First of all, I have the Persian translation as well, it say leave them. Okay. And then secondly, secondly, those who say that it is beating wife, they don't, you know, think rationally, because if Allah was for beating wife, people have been beating their wives throughout the history. Okay. So Allah didn't need to send adverse and say, Oh, you know, believers, hit your wife, I'm hitting my wife, you know, and then you tell me, hit your wife. So people would say, Oh, Allah, what are you talking about? Or Prophet Muhammad, I'm hitting my wife. So why you are going to tell me, but we see that Allah says that first do this, second do that. Okay. So already as a husband, already as a husband, I'm looking at 17 translations. I'm looking at 17 translations. Literally none of them talks about leaving your wife. All of them are talking about hitting your wife or striking your wife. 17 different translations. Okay. None of them translated the way you're translating. Okay. They have even, they have even translated Nashus as obedience, okay, which is absolutely wrong. Okay. You know that for 1400 years, nobody translated this or interpreted this as anything other than hitting your wife. This is a new phenomena for people trying to make excuses. Okay, let me tell you, let me tell you why they haven't done it because 1400 years ago, people or in 1400 years, people didn't have the opportunity that we have today. We are educated today. We read, we, you know, this is a very inaccessible Quran. If the Quran makes, if people, if the Quran was sent for only the educated elites, and you have to have a scholar to understand what it means, the Quran itself has a verse saying that this scholar is a clear message for everybody, not for an educated elite that understand like Arabic scholars. Okay. So Quran chapter 30 verse 21. And among his sign is this, that he created you mates from among yourself, that you may well in transquality with them. And he has put love and mercy between you rarely in that there are many, many verses that Quran talk about love between. Let me add this, for example, these nashus that they have also translated. Let me find it. Even even nashus, they have translated as disobedience. Okay. Chapter four verse one, wait, wait, chapter four, four verse 128. This national says, if a woman fears indifference or neglect from her husband, this is nashus. In that chapter, chapter four verse 34, they say obedience, but here they change it to fear indifference. Okay. How come? Okay. How come because the Quran is a mess? Okay, the Quran you act like you're acting like the Quran cannot. Okay. You acting like you're saying like it says here over this, how come it says over this over here? You're acting like the Quran cannot. Okay. If you believe in a law, maybe the Quran cannot contradict itself. But for us mere for atheists, we agree that the Quran is a man made books. It's able to contradict itself. Here, let me read this. Quran 1452 says this is a clear message. This meaning the Quran for humankind. Okay. For humankind, a clear message. So when you say like after 1400 years, nobody got it, only us realized today that what the message is, the Quran itself claims that this is a message for everybody. Like a goat herders should be able to read the Quran and understand the message of Allah. If he can't, then the God has failed in sending a message like he has. Okay. Let me tell you this. It's true. Allah, the Quran might be a nonviolent book. But if it is a nonviolent book, it's the most poorly communicated book I have ever read. Okay. I got another question. Why? I understand it, but you don't understand. That's your problem. I got another question. So in Quran verse 424 23 1 through 6, did Muhammad give rights to his soldiers to rape the women slaves who were married? Right hand position. It's a right hand position. Is that the one you want to read it? You go ahead. You can read it. Oh, which one is it? Quran 424 23 1 through 6, 33, 50, 70, 22 through 30. I think it's the right hand position. Want to remind you in the meantime, folks, our guests are linked in the description. So that includes perfect Dawa, T jump and Armin. If you'd like to learn more about their views, you certainly can by clicking on their links below. That includes if you're listening to the modern day to beat podcast, all of our debates end up on the podcast where you can find our guest links in the description box there as well. So Quran 423 says prohibit to you for marriage are your mothers, your daughters, your sisters, your father's sisters, your mother's sisters, your brother's daughters, your sister's daughters, your milk mothers who nursed you, your sisters through nursing, your wives, mothers, and your stepdaughters under your guardianship of your wives, unto whom you have gone in. But if you have not gone in unto them, there is no sin upon you. And also prohibited are the wives of your son who are from your own loins. Okay. Okay. And that you take in marriage to sisters simultaneously, except for what has already occurred. Indeed, a law is forgiving and merciful. I think maybe the next verse covers the concupines that you could capture. Also are prohibited to you are married women, except, oh, there you go. So married women, except those your right hand possesses. Okay. So it's telling you the Quran is telling you that you cannot have sex with married women unless unless you capture that married woman in war. Brother Rashid, as I know, maybe you know better brother Rashid, because as I know it is, you have to marry them. You cannot, you know, have sex with them, rape them in Islam is forbidden to to have sex. You have to marry them. Okay. And it has to be am I right, brother Rashid, please. You can't marry an already married woman in Islam. That makes no sense. Brother Rashid, I think that these old things just a shouting match. I mean, to be honest, it's just I mean, we're saying something you're saying you don't care. So it's kind of difficult for us to answer, you know, because our answers are very detailed. They have to be detailed, unfortunately, because this is these are important, you know, issues that you're bringing up, obviously. So it's going to take us a bit of time. What's the answer? Did did Muhammad say that you can have sex with other married women if they're your slaves in war? No. How would when Armin just literally read this? Yeah, but when is it wrong? See, you're throwing a word rape. You see, does he did he read rape in the first? Well, if you capture a woman in war, technically, what Quran says, what Islam, I agree with you that Islam says that you could marry them, but the definition of marriage in Islam does not require the consent of the woman. It doesn't the core, the concept of consent in the Quran is completely missing. There is no mention of anything regarding the consent of the woman. So yes, technically, you do whatever you require Islamically to be considered married to the person. But I can't like, for example, Muhammad had sex with a woman who he just earlier killed her brother, her father, and her husband. Okay. Technically, before having sex with her, technically, he married her. But there was no imagining that a woman who just had her husband, brother and father married would have not consent to a man having sex with her. So we defined as sex without consent, we defined that as rape. Yeah, and I disagree with that, that that took place or that the Quran calls for marriage without consent. Aisha, for example, your marriage. So for example, Muhammad married Aisha, okay, at age six, and then he consummated that marriage at eight, nine. Would you not consider that that was a marriage? But we can say that also. I disagree. I disagree at all. Does Rashid agree? Rashid, do you agree that that happened? No. So Rashid, you're saying Sahih Bukhari is wrong? No, I know much about it. I know you don't agree. But Rashid, your question is Sahih Bukhari? Yes, I would disagree that that particular incident is correct. I would disagree. Okay, no. So Sahih Bukhari, is that an authentic source of hadith or no? Not every hadith in Sahih Bukhari is authentic. And even if it were, according to the scholars, when it comes to hadith, if a hadith is Sahih, that does not necessarily mean that the Prophet did it. You need to understand that. I understand that because I agree that Sahih Bukhari sometimes refers to things, includes hadiths that wants to clarify that this is something I gather, but it's not something that I put my sample of approval on. I agree with that. This is not one of them. This hadith has been mentioned multiple times in both Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari, and they all point to the same thing. Muhammad married Aisha when she was six and had sex with her when she was nine. If you want to throw this out, literally nothing about Islam would become recognizable because the source that tells you this tells you how to do Hajj, tells you how to do the prayer, tells you how to do fasting. No, no, no. I said that particular hadith is not something that I agree to. It doesn't mean that if I say that there's hadith that is not authentic in Bukhari, that I'm throwing out the entire book. You guys know you're inventing your own new modern Islam. This is like Rashid and Mashallah's Islam. No, no. Armin, Armin, Armin, let me tell you. I disagree that Prophet Muhammad split the moon because Qur'an says opposite. Bukhari says that Prophet Muhammad split the moon, but it doesn't mean that I say Hajj is wrong. Literally, like you're the first Muslim I have ever heard that thinks you think Muhammad didn't split the moon? Of course not. Okay, you're Islam. No, no, no. Mashallah, you're correct. No, no, you're right. Okay, other Muslims are wrong. Okay, this is the worst religion ever that you that that is a religion that you are the only one who managed to get it right. 99.99% of Muslims have got it wrong. So even if I'm not saying you're the only one, but you're few. Okay, it's a really bad religion that this minority, this fringe minority can get it right. It's a really poorly communicated religion. I think that you are misrepresenting us. We didn't say that they were wrong. That is something that you are saying. We didn't say that all people Muslims have been wrong. They have been careful or they've gone astray. No, you disagree. The vast majority of Muslims disagree with your interpretations of Islam. So if what you're saying about Islam is true, it's the most poorly communicated message sent by any deity ever to his followers. But you are saying that we are not. I know you're not saying, but that's what the conclusion is from what you're saying. That's what it comes. Okay, let's take that example that you pulled out about Aisha being at the edge of that or being at the edge of, there are multiple scholars today who have disputed that hadith. And by the way, you're saying that, oh, you don't believe. You agree that this is the fringe minority? Please, let me explain. You're not giving me any moments whatsoever. I'm saying that look, okay, just because a hadith is in Bukhari, that doesn't mean that it did happen or that it's authentic. Okay. This is not something that I am saying. This is very popular. Even you can take Salafi Shulks who have classified hadiths within Bukhari. I said that. I said that. You asked me if I was throwing away Bukhari, didn't you? No, but then you said not everything in Sahih Bukhari means that Bukhari puts a sample of approval and then I responded. I said this is not one of those. And then you said nobody has ever seen it that way. You guys are the only one, but come on. You didn't pay attention to what I said. This part, Sahih Bukhari has certain hadiths that he's like, these are not correct. Okay. I'm collecting anyway for my collection versus, but there are certain had Sahih Bukhari, there are certain part of Bukhari collections that everybody recognized as him putting his sample of approval on it. This is one of them. This is one of those. Can I say something? Can I say something? Armin, if that's your problem and their problem, when Quran, from chapter 7 verse 106 to 109, talk about one small miracle of Prophet Moses that he threw a stick and became snake. Okay. He explained it very, very clearly. And then chapter 7, 115 to 125, the same thing, all this. And chapter 20 verse 7. What are you asking me? No, I'm asking you, when Quran is talking about a simple miracle, through this stick become snake, why Quran in a single verse doesn't say. I agree with you. I agree with you. You're right and everybody else is wrong. No, I agree with you. You got the right one. You got the right Islam. The vast majority of Muslims got the wrong one. When Quran doesn't say a single word that Prophet Muhammad split the moon, and you say, oh, everybody else say that, why you don't know. So I don't understand why they don't look at this Quran and say, my God, so why Quran doesn't say a single word about such a great miracle and talking about this little miracle, so much exaggerating it even. Okay. So you understand that people should think about that. Do you know the reason? Do you know the reason? Do you want to know the actual reason? Yes. Because Islam was building upon Judaism. Okay. Judaism was already a whole bunch of stories that already existed. The details were already available. The stories that about Muhammad's miracles were just being added on top. But because Muhammad and people at that time had access to a whole bunch of literature explaining Moses' miracles, then the Quran didn't have to come up with a lot of stories. Those were already readily available. You could just steal a story and add it to the book. That's the reason why you see a lot of information about Jesus' miracles or maybe Moses' miracle, especially Moses, because Muhammad originally was building Islam based on Judaism, right? And you don't see much about Muhammad. Okay. Okay. That's your, I don't know, understanding. I know, but I'm saying there's, even if I'm wrong, that there are alternative explanations. Let me tell you, let me tell you that the... But you would not, do you understand? Do you understand that how you were pretending that your conclusion is the only viable conclusion and I just give you an alternative? You say again, I'm not the only one. Brother Rashid, there are many others who understand you. And I didn't say that. I mean, that's something you're throwing on me. It doesn't exhaust all the possibilities, does it? Okay. Let me tell you, it's about Islam, it's violent or not. You mentioned chapter 5 verse 33. You said that there are components of those who fight Allah and his messenger and seek to make corruption in the land is that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from alternate sides or that they be banished from the land. That is their Yeah. Crucifying. Yeah. Crucifying. Yeah. So I'm cutting the hands and feet. Alternative size. Armin, can you tell me where in this verse said that all Muslims crucify them, those who do this and that, crucify them or cut off their hands and feet? Let me read for you. That's the problem. It says the penalty. It says that should be their penalty. No, no. Look, it is a passive form. Then chapter 7 verse 124, Farah says, I will certainly cut off your hands and feet on opposite sides, then crucify you all. Chapter 20 verse 71, he, Farah said, have you believed in him before taking my permission? He is surely your great one has taught you magic. So I will cut off your hands and feet from alternate sides and I will crucify you on the trunks of the palm tree and I will do that, that, that. Okay. So this is what Farah and pagans used to do. Allah doesn't ask me to follow what they do. It is what happened to them if they do not follow Allah. It's like that in Christianity, you live by sword, you die by sword. This is a passive form. It is not an order to me that I crucify. So passively, the Quranic verse, passively, let's say yours right. The Quranic verse passively says that the penalty for people who go against Allah, people technically me, because a lot of my activism is against Allah okay and he says spread or spread corruption upon the land, most of the liars right, which is again technically me because that's what it's describing, like people's corruption, like people, I mean, you guys, it goes against, you say it goes against, it doesn't say it goes against, does it say it goes against wage, wage war against, yeah, wage war against Allah, wage war against Allah. If you said go against, it says wage war, but you say wage war, wage war against Allah. Yeah. I'm wage war against Allah. Okay. Yes, but I enter. Okay. Go against is less violent than wage war. So he actually gave you a charitable interpretation there. Go against is not as bad as wage war against Allah. I accept, I accept wage war against Allah because you can like form an army against Allah. Okay, so you wage war against Allah. Well, hold on. Let me see. Let me, let me continue. Most of them fell out. People were spreading corruption. It says the penalty for these people should be that they are crucified or the hands and the feet are cut off and they're crucified. You're saying, you're saying that I should read this and I'm going to agree with you as no, hey, Muslims, don't go do it yourselves. This would just happen to them. Okay. I will take care of it. Dear Muslims, don't think like, okay, who take care of that? What's your interpretation of this? My interpretation, I told you that this is what Farah and pagans do to each other. We know that. It says, what are you talking about? It says like, it doesn't say that anywhere. It doesn't say that just because it's passive, it doesn't mean that it's telling you that pagans will do this to each other. It's telling you anybody, the people who are spreading corruption in the land, their penalty should be that they're crucified. You're adding stuff to it. You understand that you're adding stuff to it. It didn't say that the penalty is that we, Muslims should crucify them. It says that Farah does the same thing. So you mean that? Okay. Let me give you an example. If I say the penalty for being a Muslim is that they're going to be crucified. If I came out and said that, let's say I was a war general and came out to tell people the penalty for Muslims is the cutting of hand and feet crucifixion. And I say that in the passive form. You're like, Muslims are like, what the hell? This guy is, this man is anti-Muslim. But you were like, no. He didn't specifically tell you to go cut the hands and feet of Muslims and crucify them. He just said this is their penalty. And he probably meant that Muslims are just doing that to each other. He didn't say that. You're just trying to sugarcoat it by adding your own stuff to it, which is not in the goddamn verse. Okay. Let me now give you a good example. If I say that if you use drug, okay, if you use drug, you get the diseases, you get cancer, you get this and that, okay? And the penalty that the result is that, okay? And it says, continue says, and here after, Allah will punish them, okay? So, and it says that, for example, I'm the government and say, and after you get caught, we will punish you. So, it doesn't mean that, it doesn't mean that. Okay, sure. It doesn't mean that. Let's say, I'm going to agree with you. I'm going to agree. If you're a law, let's say you're a law. Let's say me and you are a law, okay? Okay. Let's say, I want to, I put on this verse and I didn't mean for Muslims to go crucify people for spreading corruption in the land, okay? Wouldn't you as a law, as an all-knowing a law think like, hey, if I tell people that the penalty should be crucifixion, some people might actually look at this and think like, hey, I wish to crucify people. Okay, like, wouldn't you, like, okay, wouldn't you, the penalty is, the penalty is, okay, the penalty for people is crucifixion. Okay. Is that not an, a law who didn't mean the thing that I think that this means? And literally, people have thought what it means for like the past 1300 years, think they have the same interpretation as me. Arabic, speaking scholars had the same interpretation as me. Let's say they're all wrong and you're correct. Wouldn't a responsible a law think like, maybe I should be more clear about what I mean here, so people don't come with this interpretation? Okay. This is the, I said that this is their problem, that they don't read the Quran. Let me tell you, did Pharaoh do this to people and who follows this, this, Pharaoh was following Allah's command or Allah is what's following Pharaoh's command. Can you tell me please? I don't understand because Pharaoh was doing this, okay. The pagans were crucifying each other, Quran says in those verses that this is what Pharaoh does, okay. He chop off their hands on alternate side and then he crucified people. So once Pharaoh following the command of Allah or Allah followed the command of Allah. You talk to us as if we think Allah is real and Allah would not follow other people's traditions. As people, as people who don't believe in Allah, we think that the Quran covers a whole bunch of other traditions. So this is the problem that you, you don't understand it and then you say when it comes here. No, we just don't believe that there's an Allah that wouldn't follow other people's traditions. So when you don't believe, don't tell me that this says that we have to do it, okay. I'm telling you. I cannot tell you what the text seems like it's saying because I don't believe in Allah. Okay. No, because I read for you that those whose heart is corrupted, they followed the unspecific verses of Quran and interpreted the way they want, okay. Those whose heart is corrupted. So maybe your heart is corrupted. Maybe your heart is corrupted. If my heart is corrupted, you follow. True. Okay. The Quran, do you agree that the Quran also says that people who just believe their heart is corrupted and I allotted that to them and you should like not even bother with them. Didn't the Quran said that? The Quran doesn't say that. Doesn't the Quran says that those who just believe their heart has been corrupted by me and there's a law specifically takes courage for corrupting my heart. Doesn't it? It's not about everyone. Okay. It's about certain people even in about Christians doesn't Quran says that certain people, his heart, their heart has been corrupted by Allah himself. And don't you to spend waste your time with them and that he's going to punish them in hell for eternity for their corrupt for the corruption. How is that fair by the way for Allah to corrupt the heart of people and then he punishing them for not for not having any hope in coming to Islam? Like does that make any sense? Do you agree that that verse exists? The verse that Quran says to Muslims that do not try to bring people that I have corrupted to Islam. There are lost cause and their destination would be hell. How is that fair? If I want to say my own opinion. Okay. This is the way God, Allah was talking to people of the past. Okay. And this is not exactly the way he has done it. This is my own understanding. Okay. That do not because some people's heart is really corrupted and it's. No, he doesn't say it's corrupted. I corrupted their hearts. Okay. Their heart is like that. I say that this is my understanding is that it is not exactly how you understand you. You look at it. Okay. Brother Rashid, do you have anything to say about it? About the corruption? No, of the heart. I would like to stick to the topic. Yes. Okay. Tom, do you want to say anything? Yes. So it seems like their argument is that if they cherry pick all of the nice things and ignore all of the bad things, then Islam is peaceful. And that seems like their personal interpretation that essentially 0.000 something percent of Muslims in the world believe. And it seems delusional to think that their personal interpretation that so few Muslims actually believe is the true Islam. So it's irrational to think that Islam is peaceful. It's more rational to think that the vast majority of other Muslims probably have it right. So just based on probability, most likely it's not peaceful. But I'm ready to go to the Q&A because I think we've not really interested in personal subjective interpretations of a book that really agrees with. Before we go that, I would like to say that. Okay. Before we go that, you don't have to, if you really think that those are Quran, you don't have to, you don't need to follow them. Okay. You follow those good commands of Allah. Okay. Okay. Like those verses that I read for you about, you know, giving to our friends, to Nidhi and so on. Okay. So you follow the commands that you understand that, for example, let me read for you chapter four verse 135. Oh, believers, stand firm for justice and witness for Allah, even if it is against yourself, your parents or close relatives and so on. There are many others. Chapter 23 verse 96, repel evil in the best manner. We are well aware about what they are saying about you. Chapter 42 verse 43. And whoever is patient and forgives, indeed that is of the matters requiring the determination. So as a Muslim, I tell you that if you don't understand those verses that you think that these are violent, and so don't follow them, that's great. Okay. So because I do, I understand that these verses are not promoting violence. And I just encourage you to follow these verses that you see that they are good. They are commanding you to be right. That's a horrible idea. That's horrible. Like if the mind comp had the section of it that said like, Hey, by the way, be nice to our friends. I wouldn't say it doesn't say it doesn't say it doesn't say let me just finish. It doesn't say let's say let's say the minecraft have once one added paragraph at the very end. Like, by the way, take care of our friends. Okay. I wouldn't tell people like, Hey, this book, you might think that the rest of it is wrong. But hey, this last part is good. So follow the mind comp, follow the good parts of the minecraft, ignore the bad parts of my comp, follow the good parts. That is a really horrible legitimization of my comp. Okay. If I have enough logical understanding and a good moral guideline that I could recognize the good or bad parts of the Koran, that means that I don't need the Koran because I have enough I'm sensible enough to know what's good and what's bad that I don't need the authority of the Koran. But by referring to the Koran and like in the parts that like already know it's good, like yeah, taking care of our friends is good. But by referring to the Koran, I'm giving authority and legitimacy to a book that comes with a whole bunch of other horrible ideas that comes as a package. Okay. So I don't want to do that. I don't want to give it that legitimacy. So you mean that you will not take care of orphans? You will not give to needy? Okay. Because Koran says that. Will you not do that? Did I say that? What the hell did I say? So you will do that. So you will do that. Yes. You will do that. Not because of answers. So that's why. But I will also say don't fall for the Koran. Like don't look at the small little these are the sugar. This is the poison. The Koran is a poison pill. Okay. It has a sugar coating. It's a few sweet little verses here and there that makes it sound sweet and buttery and you know like like lovey dovey kumbaya stuff. But if you but they use that sugar coating as a way to make you swallow the entire thing. And when you swallow the entire thing, you realize that you just swallowed poison. Okay. So don't fall for that. That's just the sugar. In fact, the sugar coating makes it more dangerous. Okay. Because just like mine cup, if it like mine cup doesn't have that sugar coating, so it's easier for people to be like, okay, this is a horrible book. But the Koran is a more dangerous virus because of the sugar coating that the good parts of the so-called good parts of the Koran makes the Koran a more dangerous book because it comes with a lot of horrible ideas. But people are picking and choosing and trying to portray it to you as if this is a good book by just showing you that it's sugary stuff. But it changed me to a better person. Okay. I have, I have, I believe in you much about I think you would be a good person even without the Koran. Okay. I have more, I believe in you more than yourself. Okay. I think, I think you would, you're a wonderful person. And if I take the Koran away from you, you will still be a wonderful person. No, I became much better actually. I have to tell you, because before I was believing in death penalty, but I don't believe in death penalty anymore because I learned that we have no right to... Because of the Koran. Yes, yes, because... Okay. Okay, sure. You keep the Koran, you keep the Koran. For the vast majority of the people, the Koran has a toxic effect on them. Okay. But Moishtaba, you just keep the Koran. Okay. But for most people, I don't recommend it. All right. Let's go Q&A because I'm bored. We're going to jump into Q&A. I want to... My final thing. Sure. Final words. My final question. Yes. Thank you. I think that the Koran is fairly easy to understand. Also, as Amin was saying, was also saying that it should be understood by even a bed when picking it up and understand. I believe that the Koran is written in vernacular. It's not written like in some upper level of Arabic. No. It's written in a language that all people should be able to understand. The issue comes in when we do not interpret the Koran according to the Koran because the Koran itself says that we have given you the best tafsir. So the Koran is the best explanation of its own self. So in order for you to understand the Koran, you have to understand the process in which it was revealed. You have to understand the relationship that was going on at the time, which I do believe can be found within the Koran itself. I'm not asking people to go and look for other materials outside the Koran. No. You can look into the scripture itself and itself will tell you how the situation was during the time of the Prophet. You need to understand the political climate of the time. For example, you need to understand how kingdoms were ruled, how societies were ruled at the time, how situations were at the time, how people were worrying from one clan to another. You need to understand these things, for example, in order to be able to put the Koran where it belongs, and then you'd be able to understand it in a much better way. So the Koran within itself contains parts which explain other parts. So you need to be able to look at those parts and then assess whether, for example, it follows the narrative, whether it follows the other parts of the Koran. And that's the point of the Koran. And another thing that I also want to make, that the Koran is not meant to, for example, alter the humanity that is within the human being. And that's the problem that sometimes we assume that we come to the Koran and we expect the Koran to make us good. But no, the Koran is taking it as a given that, for example, that you apply your humanity, your own understanding. So if, for example, I am a violent individual within me, I will gravitate towards the violent aspects that are found within the Koran. That can happen, no doubt. And also, if I am easily malleable, if I am easily moldable by people, for example, I will easily gravitate to other people's understandings and people's ideologies and all that. It's easy to, it's easily manipulated that's the point of ideologies, that you can easily shape them in any way that you want in order to trick people. And the Koran is not different. But we treat the Koran as if it is supposed to be, like it's supposed to add some kind of special thing. But the problem is that people claim that when we showed the horrible parts of the Koran, and then some Muslims come and like, hey, if you actually took this in context, and you also understood the political climate of time, this would make actually a lot more sense and it would be not as horrible as it seems. And the problem is that they rely on the audience just taking that and face value and then not doing that. Because when we actually do that, it becomes worse. Okay, so you, most people are like, oh, this Muslim is telling us that, hey, actually it's actually nice and peaceful and lovey-dovey if you don't do the work. But when you do the work, it's the peaceful lovey-dovey parts that all go away. And the horrible parts become actually 10 times more horrible. It looks like we're going back into dialogue now. Otherwise, I want to give it to Perfect Dawa and then T jump before we go into the last questions. Well, we already did mine. That was my previous statement. You got it. Perfect Dawa. Any last in 60 seconds? Not upset much. So I just say very fast after this, I go live on my channel. And those who would like to ask me questions from audience, they can join my channel and ask me, I will be live right after here. I can barely hear you. But okay, with that, we're going to go into the Q&A. Want to say, folks, if you have a question, type it into the YouTube live chat at modern day debate with at modern day debate. Otherwise, if you do a super chat, we read those first. Here we go. Pineapple Platypus, thank you very much, says, does Islam have a version of quote, turn the other cheek, unquote, when someone hits you, such as like what Jesus said? Why did Jesus not promote self-defense? I don't believe that such a thing exists in Quran. Islam says that you have the right to defend yourself. Of course, as I said beginning, it is as the last option, not the first option. You have to try all other options. And if there is no any other way, then you have the right to defend yourself. And that's a Quran encourages us in many places that fight against oppressors. Okay. So, Brother Rashid, if you would like to respond? Yes, as Muji also said that Islam is not a pacifist religion. It's not a pacifist. It has verses within it that legitimize, like for example, fighting against people in self-defense. That's the only place that I would say that it legitimizes it becoming via or waging war or going to war or something. It's in self-defense. However, when it comes to how you do it, even within that particular confound, it still has verses within it that tell you how to act during those horrible times. For example, when it says that you're supposed to repel something that is evil with something that is good. And why is that? Then the person between you and whom there is enmity, then that person will become to you like Wali Yun Hanim as the most trusted confidant, a very good and near friend to you. That is the moral of the Qur'an. You're supposed to repel evil with good. Qur'an's definition of evil, which is not our definition of evil because I am evil based on the Qur'an. Also, the Qur'an's definition of evil, like whenever you say like people promote you go like, oh, look, the Qur'an says it's against evil. Yeah, like a lot of wholesome things are considered evil by the Qur'an. So, I don't think that's a very valid point. But also, if I want to answer the question, the story of Muhammad and the story of Jesus are similar in so many senses because they were both religious rebels, like the people who rebelled against the religious authority. Their stories are religious authorities at the time. Jesus's story ends with him being crucified. Muhammad's story becomes victorious and starts the government. So, naturally, the stories that come out of Jesus's religion are less aggressive than the one the religious rebel that managed to become successful and set up a government. So, it would make sense why one of them has more violence in it than the other one. This is a command from Horatio C. He says, salutations from Romania. I just want to thank you, James, for making this amazing channel and doing such a good job with it. Thank you for your kind words, Horatio C. All credit to the speakers who are linked in the description right now. So, if you want to hear and learn more about their views, folks, you certainly can by clicking on their links below. They said, it's the subscription that I always look forward to most on YouTube. Well, thanks so much and passing all that credit to the speakers as they are the lifeblood of the channel and linked in the description box of the podcast as well. Kairi Irving says, was Muhammad's marriage to Aisha justified within Islam? I think we answered that question. We said that that never happened. No. Okay. We said that it never happened. It's not just. That nine years or six years old. If you would like, I can read the story that she was 19 or 21 at the time. If you would like, I can, but it takes a little bit of time. Okay. So, I can read it more accurately, that historical, that when she was born, when she moved here and I don't know if you have time to, I read for you that. Just read the source and I will read my source for why she was nine when Muhammad had sex with her because this is my source. This is Sahih Bukhari or recognized by the vast majority of Muslims. Okay. Just give us the source. You don't need to read it. No, it is from different historical and hadiths is taking the timing. Okay. For example, that her sister was 10 years older when she died and so on. And then the calculation become that she was, what is it, 21 to 19 or 21. Mojtaba, you realize what you're doing. Okay. So what's happening is that the Muslims who want to act like her age was higher, they take a weird as calculations out of multiple hadiths that none of them are referring to her age specifically, but they're trying to come up with a calculation that shows her as old, but they ignore the literal hadiths that all the hadiths that mention her age at the time of the consummation of marriage. They're ignoring that one, but they want to do like a detective work and like, oh, like she was here at this time and they were at that time. And when she said, when she, this was narrated her age was this and she was not playing with the doll here. And she was playing with the doll here. And all of this will all of a sudden works for 19. Now, let me, they asked, I think us, okay, birth date of Prophet Muhammad's 571 AD Islam introduced when he was 40 years old, 611 Prophet preached Islam in Mecca, 13 years, 40 plus 13 equal 53 migration from Mecca to Medina in 624. Asma bin Abi Bakr date of birth, 595 date, sorry, death, 692 Mecca, Saudi Arabia, she died at the age of 97 years. The historian Ibn Khatir and Ibn Asqir cite a tradition that Asma was 10 years older than Aisha. Let include, calculate now, Asma elder sister of Aisha born in 595 AC and Aisha born 10 years later in 605. Islam revealed in 611. It means Aisha was six years old at the introduction of Islam. Prophet lived in Mecca 13 years, hence Aisha was 13 plus six, 19 years old. That's the conclusion. At the time. So the migrate took place in Mecca after two years of migration, 19 plus two equal 21. So, okay, let me read now. You are going to read one story that she was six years old. No, that's Sahih Bukhari. That's the most authentic source of Islamic hadiths in the whole. And it's multiple times in Sahih Bukhari and multiple times in Sahih Muslim. Let me read. You read yours. Let me read mine. Okay. I know you know. Let me read it for the audience. I know you know. Let me read it for the audience. Okay. This is Sahih Al Bukhari, 5134, book 67, hadith 70. Okay. It says the Prophet, sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, okay. Do you like that? Married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said, I have been informed that Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years. Okay. So she, where Aisha was 18 when the Prophet died. Okay. There are multiple versions of this hadith. If you want to question Sahih Bukhari, you have to literally get rid of 95% of Islam because Sahih Muslim, Sahih Bukhari is how Muslims know how to do the Hajj, how to do the Salat, how to do the fasting, how to do everything. Okay. But I was answering the question. We went again back to the same, you know, thing that we were saying that we don't reject everything. Okay. We reject those that, you know, are just. You don't like. No, no, no, no. Not those that are not accurate. Okay. And what is it? Rashid as well said that not all of them, even themselves. You pick and choose. I understand. Even all scholars say that not all of the hadiths there are authentic. This one they approve. This is one of those books. This one. For me, my answer, my response for me to that is that I don't accept that particular hadith or those based on the Quran, because the Quran for it for marriage in order for marriage to be to be valid between a woman and a woman, there needs to be Russian as that is a requirement of the Quran. There needs to be a person who is who has reached an age of not true the court. I got your last word and then we've got to go to the next one because you have so many questions. That's not to the choruses. It can make sure the choruses you can marry children. No, it doesn't. Okay, it doesn't. From Aaron Johnson says for both, please read Quran 4735, which I've got right here. I can read it for you. It says, So be not faint hearted and do not cry for peace. You shall prevail. Allah is with you and will not bring your works to not. I didn't understand very well. Brother Rashid, you understood? Yeah, yeah, I know I understood what he was talking about first. I said, is the don't call towards which people translated as as peace. But that actually means more submission. I don't know why he said peace, to be honest, why it says peace. It says still that's pretty much submission says don't call the same route as peace. Salama has the same route as peace. Yeah, but that was ceiling with the with the Kastra. And it doesn't actually mean peace. It means more submission. So it don't call towards being submitted, you know, while you have the upper hand. So next one next super shot. What do we can I just say mustaba and Rashid are better are good people. This is why they don't accept Islam. Like I don't want to. I'm not attacking much taba and Rashid. I'm attacking Islam. Yeah, I think their interpretation of Islam is probably the best interpretation of Islam that there is. This is coming in from do appreciate your question. XXWLZXX says you can't pick and choose which hadiths you want to follow. It's either Sahih and authentic or it's not otherwise you can pick and choose all you want. Okay, I can respond to that. Even Bukhari that you say is authentic and so on. He collected, as he said, 600,000 hadiths. And as he said, which I don't believe at all that he memorized 300,000 fabricated hadiths. How can he memorize all these hadiths? That's another question. And he threw away all of them. He just kept 7,000 of them. And I do not accept just because he said these are authentic. I do not accept. I have to look up Quran and see if it contradicts Quran because I am the one who must answer God in the judgment day. If I follow Bukhari and say, oh, these hadiths that says kill opposite, opposite. And I go kill Armin. I am the one who must answer God, not Bukhari. Okay, he answered, of course, for himself, but for not for me. Okay, because then Allah says that I never told you in Quran that you can go and kill people just because of their beliefs. Okay, just I have said it many times that fight those who fight you. Okay, and those Armin is just fighting me with words and I'm fighting him with words. That's all. Okay, so I can choose hadiths because I am the one who respond, but I don't pick up and choose from Quran. And all everyone agreed that there are hundreds of thousands of fabricated hadiths. Everyone agreed in that. Okay, yes, please. Yes, and as for my opinion on that is that even if you look at all hadiths, we're particularly selected by people choosing. So when Bukhari, for example, classified as a hadith as being Sahih or authentic, he classified them according to his own terms. So he set the terms, the different criteria that are required for a hadith to pass as Sahih according to his own. That's why, for example, you have hadiths which Bukhari rejected and called fabricated, but Sahih Muslim considered them authentic. So Ronald Mandanka says, see how much peace religion brings. I don't know if they just mean because you guys are disagreeing in debate or if they mean something else. Hey, we don't, we don't, we're not fighting, we're just disagreeing. By the way, this is a very good point to bring up here. Okay. We are like, I am a very much anti Islam, but I am very much pro Muslim. Okay, I am the problem that we have is just disagreement over ideology. Like we don't, I don't, we want the best for each other. I like Rashid, I like Mushtaaba as people, I just disagree with their ideology in the same way that a Muslim could be very much anti atheism because they love atheists because they've been like, hey, atheists are going to go to hell. That's why, and I love atheists, I don't want to go to hell, so I'm anti atheism. So you could be anti atheism without being anti atheists. In the same way, I'm anti Islam without being anti Muslim. So this is not a, I hope like Rashid and Mushtaaba consider like, could consider like me friend even though they disagree with me. Would you guys be able to consider me a friend even though we passionately disagree with each other? Of course. We are, we are, we are, we are, we are human being and we disagree on things and we are not enemies as long as we talk. Okay. And we don't attack each other. That's, that's great. Okay. So yeah. Yeah. And then, and then I have to tell you that according to me, you're not going to help just because you're, you're, you're a disbeliever. Okay. This one coming in from. Thank you. Appreciate your question. xx wlz xx says, why, why reject the hadiths when the Quran itself was compiled in the same way as the hadiths also 90% of Islam is in the hadith without it. It's pointless. Okay. Yes. Yes. Because I think we answered that. Okay. To that question, no, the Quran was not compiled in the same way as the hadiths. You can look at all the history books that you want. The Quran was never compiled in the same way as hadiths were if you look at the history even outside it. And if someone disagrees with me, if I mean you disagree with that, that the Quran was compiled in the same way as hadiths, you're allowed to make that claim, but then I would need to see your sources, please. This one coming up. I mean, follow up question. They say Allah destines people for hell and they say to Quran seven verse 179. Do because I have to read the verse. Okay. Brother, I should do. Do you have that part? Are you reading it out loud if you'd like? Yes, please. They said, quote, and certainly we have created for how many of the jinn and mankind, they have hearts with which they fail to understand, and they have eyes with which they fail to see, and they have ears with which they fail to hear. They are like cattle, indeed, even more astray. Such are utterly heedless. Okay. If I would like to if I answer that one, I say that again, you cannot take one verse of Quran and say that's all. Okay. It is always about oppressors. Okay. Those who do bad deeds. And Allah even says that if you avoid major bad deeds, I forgive your minor bad deeds. Okay. So Allah is just, I read for you that Allah only invites you to do good deeds. All right. As long as you do good deeds, you are fine. Brother Rashid, if you would like to ask. If you look at that verse specifically, I mean, when he says, we brought forth many people from among the peoples who are going to hell, that it doesn't mean that God brought them or created them for the purpose of going to hell. No, it says that's why it says later on that they have hearts which they do not understand with. So it's saying that these people are that God did give them hearts. He did give them eyes. He did give them minds to think, but they're not using those minds, those hearts. So for that reason, so he compares them to cattle. I have to say that they're exactly like cattle, but it's just a metaphorical speech that is being referenced here. It's not exactly, but it's just saying that the reason why is it's more like a statement that the reason why they're going there is because of what they have done that Allah did give them these faculties to use, but they did not use them in the right way. So that's. No, Rashid, the verse makes it, if you read the verse, even it makes it clear that there's something fundamentally wrong with the heart itself. It's not just based on the action. He says, God, God himself curses your heart and hardens your heart. That's not the verse. But I mean, that's the verse he read. I was just commenting on that verse. This one coming in from Sheik Speer says, Perfect Dawah, do you interpret the Quran in Arabic or English? If in English, how can you be sure it's an accurate translation? And why in English? If in Arabic, it makes more sense. Actually, I do from Arabic as well. And I English as well. I even check the Persian. I check different interpretation and different, you know, translation. And if sometimes if I there are verses that I am not so sure about understanding of them. So I ask those who are better than me. And sometimes even Brother Rashid knows I contact him. And there are there is another brother who speak Arabic. And we discuss certain verses. And we come to to the conclusion. Yes, is based on their reading are the verses in the Quran that tells you to cut the hands of the thieves? Okay, all right. If you if you want to just say so. No. Sorry, what? Once again, just say so. No, based on your understanding are the verses are is the reverse in the Quran that tells you that in a person who steals, you have to cut their hands. Absolutely not. Okay. Absolutely not. Okay. If you want, I can I can prove you if we want, I can prove you right. Maybe you have a stream. Yes, yes. Because if you want, I can prove you. No, no, I think he is going to murder us if it continues. Sorry, teacher. Sorry, sorry. You don't have to you only have a couple more questions left. And then we'll get you guys out of here. Thank you guys for being it's been almost two hours already. He says if Scott Scottus the Supreme Court of the United States makes Christian Sharia legal, will it be just as bad as Islam Sharia? I guess that assumes that you think that Islam Sharia would be bad for the Muslims. I am what are your thoughts? Would it be? We'll let both sides speak. Um, I'm good. I'm just I don't know. I think Islam and power is more dangerous than Christianity and power. However, I think right now in the world that we're living, because Christianity is in the position to affect the world superpower is potentially could cause even though inherently Islam is more damaging. In effect, Christianity is having more of a global influence and could potentially be causing a lot more harm. So for example, just the idea of how Christians see climate effects of climate change, the fact that it changes their view on climate change is affecting the world globally. I can't I can't imagine religion having a positive effect on that view or Christianity affecting people's, you know, global politics and therefore our United States foreign policy, the way people vote on that. So the fact that what United States does changes everything in the world. I think the negative effects of Christianity might be felt by more people because countries that are Islamic have less access to economic resources and can change the world less than countries that are Christian right now. You got this one coming in from Rocky Shepard says, is it okay to marry six year old and consummate it Rashid or Dawa? I think you guys kind of already answered that, but we have answered that. Yes, we have answered that. I think we don't need to answer again. This one coming in from Luigi Santeriello says if all Muslims were peaceful and honorable like Luigi and Rashid, this would be a way better world. I don't know if that's a compliment or a backhanded compliment. Thank you. Thank you. We hope that everybody become, we try, I'm trying. I think most Muslims are better than Islam and most Christians are better than Christianity and most Hindus are better than Hinduism and vast majority of Jews are better than Judaism. So this is, the good thing is that religion has not been able to successfully rob people's humanity. So that's a failure of religion and you know one point for humanity. This one coming in from? Yeah, I just say fast that that's why I have this, my channel, the perfect Dawa, that I'm trying to change them, the people, yes. Ophel Ian says, if anyone Muslim can decide, sorry, and at Atheist Republic, we're trying to get them away from religion. So check that out as well. Atheist Republic. Okay, sorry, go on. No worries. This one from Ophel Ian says, if anyone Muslim can decide whether a Hadith is correct or not, doesn't that promote Islamists to believe what is violent and act on that? Do they have the right to do that? Sure, I mean, you have the right to do whatever you want. But then, of course, there will be pushback. I mean, there will be people who will combat that. At the end of the day, I mean, I guess that can be said about anything, have the right to say whatever you want. So they have the right, yes. But does that mean that it is true? That can be debated. I mean, we can go into discussions about whether that is true or not. But they have the right to say whatever they want. You got it. And this one coming in from Darth Revan says, last one, can you ask the Muslim side if Islam is so peaceful, why did Muhammad die in a military raid on a village to the woman whose family he had just slaughtered? This is also another fabricated Hadith as well. That's what I can say right now. I heard you would die from poisoning. Yes, exactly. There are many stories out there, but this one is quite funny, even to me. Which one is it true? And the poisoning one is true? It hasn't been such a thing. I mean, whether he died by poison or he died by someone killing, there were prophets who were killed before him. So that comes as, it doesn't make his prophet who will, you know, non-valley just because he was killed. You know, there were prophets who were killed before him. So and we believe that that's in the Quran. I mean, but also testify to that. But so wasn't he poisoned by one of the women that he had murdered his family? No, she was trying to get revenge. This one actually, that's in terms of I want to get you guys out of here within two hours. So I want to say thank you to our guests. We really do appreciate them. They're linked in the description folks. If you want to hear more from them, if you want to learn their views, you certainly can by clicking on their links below. That includes at the podcast. So one last time, I'm going to do a quick post credits show at the very end. So stick around for that. But in the meantime, thank you so much. Rashid, perfect Dawat, T-Jump and Armin, it's been a true pleasure to have you. Just, I would like to say it's fast something. I mean, if you would like, I can continue about hand chopping. If you would like, you can come to my channel right now. I will go there. Come to my channel, Atheist Republic. But you are going live right now, because I'm going live right now. Oh, no, I can't do it right now, but maybe later, maybe later. Okay, later. But right now I'm going live. For those who would like to ask, I will be live. By the way, just to be clear, in Atheist Republic, we just don't, we don't do just Islam. Like we are like against, we stand against every religion, Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, like we covered them all Zoroastrianism. So right now we're doing a lot on Hinduism. So if you'd like to check it out. I would also like to say that I would like to converse with you, Armin, if it's possible, you know, on the different verses that you put because there was no time. Rashid, was I rude to you? I'm sorry, I interrupted you as a couple of times. Do you think I was rude to you at any point? Like I tried. That's what happens in the debate. I mean, I frankly prefer just to dialogue and then you have time you ask me a question and allow me to speak and answer the question. Yeah, yeah, I should have been more mindful. But you seem like a very nice guy. Like I hope you do. I didn't make you upset. No, no, I would like to continue this discussion and then you could ask me about any verse that has violence and I would have. Would you come to my channel? Would you come to my channel? Yes, contact me. I would love to. I would love to have you there. Fantastic. All right. Thank you, everyone. I will be live right now. So I say goodbye, everybody. Thank you very much. You got it. Thanks very much, gentlemen. I'll be back in a moment, folks, for a short post-credits scene. Let you know about upcoming debates. So stick around and hit like in the meantime. Gentlemen want to say thanks so much for all of your support. Very fun debate. And again, our guests are linked in the description if you'd like to hear more ultra things for your last minute super chat. So we do appreciate you. Thank you very much for your support. Whether it be in the form of, there are a lot of different ways you guys support the channel and it means more than you guys know. Let's see. What are these? I think this is they're trying to address the chat. They say if you see this, then you know what is it? You know atheism is better than God. So they're trying to punk you in the chat if you want to debate them. What is their name? Ultra is there in the live chat if you want to debate them. That's what they say to you. So want to say, though, thanks so much for all of your guys' support. Seriously, it means more than you know. Thank you guys. Not just super chats. Like super chats, that helps. It's true. But otherwise, even standard questions for the Q&A, that helps as well. And I mean questions overall, just period. That helps because if there were no questions, we couldn't even have a Q&A period. But other things that help like, yeah, we just had 180 likes. That's actually very good for a live stream for us. So we really do appreciate that. 180 is great. So we can totally, we can totally hit the goal of hitting 190. We've got 195 viewers right now. So I have no doubt in my mind we can hit that goal of 190. It means more than you guys know. We really do appreciate your guys' support through that as that does help boost every particular debate that we host. Has a higher probability of being recommended by YouTube if you had likes. So if you thought that your side was more persuasive in this debate, hitting like is actually going to make it more likely that more people see it. But if you don't think your side did that well and you thought maybe that they weren't as persuasive as you hoped they would be, well then frankly like you probably wouldn't want to hit like because in that case you'd actually be kind of recommending a video to people on YouTube where you thought your side lost. But I want to say though, we really do appreciate you guys. Thanks for all of your support. Here's another way. Is that I see you there in the old live chat. Let me, before I tell you more ways, want to say hello to you in the live chat. Trinity Matrix, Doornobhead, Clinton Rosh, Felix, and Hot Single Plague Doctor in your area. Jeremy Nolan as well and Alika. Is that, am I saying it right? Let me know. My eyes are, let me see. Let me zoom here. Alika as well as Ultra and El Hakim B. Amir, Allah. Let me know if I'm saying it right. Al Somo. Good to see you again. General Balzac, thanks for your support. And Emery, Demir, good to see you again, says toss my salad. Nasty guy. This one coming in from, do appreciate your support. Sajonav, our head moderator, thanks for all you do. And Rock E. Shepard, good to see you. Seb Oz, thanks for coming by. Says what's the music name? It's in the description box. It's World Goes Wild. I can't remember who it is, but the band name is in the description box as well. Coded, cold-blooded 2000, thanks for coming by. Good to see you there in the old live chat. Crazy Goat, happy to have you here. As well as Shavey Safda, thanks for being with us as well as Wasim, glad to have you here. And Slam Rn, good to see you again, longtime viewer. Susanna, glad to have you with us. I see you there in the old live chat. As well as Point Fire and Mike, glad to have you here. Adam Farrow, happy to have you with us. And Ophal Ian, thanks for dropping in. Cool servant, Jesus Swag, glad to have you here. Defreak and Ghassem, thanks for being with us. Jen Wall is happy to have you here as well as Ali and Ronald Mendenka, good to see you again. Azri Schizophrenia, happy to have you here. And yeah, I gotta say though, it even helps when you guys hit the subscribe button, that even helps as well. Here's how. It's just social credibility. So it basically shows people that when they see a channel with a lot of subscribers, it's like when they see a lot of Amazon reviews, if you're subscribing to something that kind of people say like, Oh, it's like a lot of people must like that. So really, if you're subscribed, that helps the channel well as well. And there are so there are a lot of ways you can help the sports channel and you guys do a fantastic job of that. So I want to say thank you for that. Here's another one. If you know of friends, here's an important direct way. If you're like, man, I really thought my side was more persuasive in this debate. We already passed 190 likes by the way. We're only seven likes away from 200 to for being in the hundreds of likes during the live stream. So I highly encourage you. Hey, hey, we're only seven away. We can smash that goal and have literally hundreds of likes on the live stream itself. Want to say my dear friends, think about this. If you really thought that your side was most persuasive in this debate, you'd want to share this debate because maybe you're thinking, Hey, maybe there are people on the fence and it's good for them to hear both sides because if they hear both sides and the side that you think one one and they see that, well, then they'd probably be persuaded that way because it's not like you're sending them a one sided video. They'd be seeing a debate in which they're kind of like, Oh, I got to be honest, have to be honest. I think that this side did win. If you didn't think your side one, I would not recommend. I mean, like, you know, it depends on what your view is. You may not be as compelled to share the debate, to hit that share button below and share it with somebody else because you might be thinking like, I don't know if my side did very well, maybe they didn't get enough prep, whatever it was, just something to keep in mind. But that depends. I've got to tell you, we want to say word of mouth really does make a difference for real that classic old fashioned like third party willing to say, Hey, you so and so, I think you might enjoy this debate. It's pretty good. That really does go a long way because if I go on Twitter, for example, and I tweet out like, Hey, we're gonna have this debate. It's going to be awesome. It's on whether or not Islam is violent. People will be like, Well, yeah, of course, James, you know, of course, say that it's going to be cool because like you host modern day debate, you run the show. But if you say that, well, it's a lot more frankly, a lot more convincing because you're a little bit more credible. You're a third party. Want to say though, we want to say we appreciate you very much. You guys thank you for your support in all of these different ways. I'm trying to think of what else. Those are really the main ways and we really do appreciate that. If you listen to the podcast, here's one. If you really want to go the extra mile, maybe you're like, man, James, I feel like doing a good deed today. I've got energy and I'm excited is if you give us a positive review on our podcast, that really helps for real. No joke. We have a podcast and it's available on fine podcast apps everywhere. So Spotify, for example, or Apple podcasts, modern day debate, let me check in right now because I just want to see how many reviews we have is always going to kick out of checking this out is that we have 89 ratings. And wow, I'm actually like pleasantly surprised at how many stars it has. It's got out of five stars, we have 4.5 stars. So thank you. Like that's like super supportive. I'm just encouraged by that. I'm like, wow, that's like really good. Like I thought it would have been lower, to be honest. I thought it would have been like three or four stars to be honest because, hey, we've got a lot of growth to do. We've got a lot of things to improve. I'll be honest. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to say that we don't, but we're going to work on it and we're going to get better. And I'm just super encouraged that people are already giving such positive reviews. So on your favorite podcast app, if you type in modern day debate and you find us and you say, hey, I am going to not only subscribe and hey, like it's convenient because let's say you run out of data and you're like, man, I ran out of data or you just want to save your data. Let's say you don't have unlimited data like me. I don't have unlimited or if you're like, well, I have unlimited, but maybe you travel through a tunnel while you're going to work on a commute through the subway, whatever it is. And you don't want to have to rely on your data because if you're going through a tunnel, you're probably going to lose connection. You can download the debates. We're at 198 likes, you guys. That's monstrous. We're only two likes away from being at the hundreds mark for live stream likes during this debate, which is fantastic. That's actually great. And so, hey, it's true. If you download modern day debates, you can listen to them anytime and it's ad free. That's one cool thing is that I've got to be honest on YouTube, our debates usually have like an ad maybe like every 12 to 15 minutes. That's like the average. There are no ads in the podcast at all. So it's fully ad free. It's been that way for the last two years that we've had it. It's going to be that way for a while. To be honest, like, maybe down the road, we'll do it if we want to fund like more in person debates, which we do want to eventually do more of. But that's going to be a while before we ever put ads in those. So highly encourage you. Check it out if you haven't. And like I said, maybe you're already like, I've already checked it out. If you leave a review that really does go a long way in terms of helping our podcast. So for real, I'm encouraged too that the podcast is growing so much right now that sometimes we even get people, holy smokes, we have 200 likes, you guys. That's phenomenal 200. So we're literally in the hundreds of likes for this live stream. So that's huge. Thank you guys for that support. But yeah, like I said, we actually sometimes have people stop in the live chat on YouTube and they're like, Oh, James, I actually, I didn't find you on YouTube. I found you through the podcast first. And then I like I was listening on the podcast and I realized you guys are on YouTube. And then that's how you know I came over there. So appreciate that support though. You guys were pumped about that the freak. I see you there in the old live chat. Good to have you with us, Joseph, Tim Merriman. Thanks for coming by. Appreciate you being here with us. And let's see here. Anybody knew that I hadn't said hello to thanks for your kind words. Mike says I love this channel. We appreciate that. And yeah, we 201 likes and Emery Demir says I will make it 201. And then chic spear. Let me know if it pronounces rights at 201 like lol now we're up to 203. Seriously, thank you guys. Seriously, it really does mean a lot because I appreciate that you guys actually do that. It really does. Our video is getting recommended more means more people are going to actually subscribe because we're not ashamed about the fact that we want to grow. We're not ashamed of that because we think we're having a positive influence that there's a purpose behind modern day debate. And that purpose resonates with all of our values, whether we be atheists, Christian, Muslim, you name it. Everybody wants a fair platform. Everybody wants a level playing field so that people from all walks of life can come on and make their case, no matter how controversial their views are, including now I've got to say that's one of our values and we're glad that we share that value no matter what walk of life we are from and we want to stay true to our values. And so we appreciate you guys supporting us as we strive to, like I said, build those bridges or provide this level playing field so that everybody can make their case on this neutral platform. That's important to us. And we really do appreciate it though. We're excited about the future. I've got to tell you we have big things planned. So thank you guys for all of your support. It means more than you know. And seeing more new people in the live chat, NWO Games Alert. Thanks for coming by. I see you there in the old live chat as well as I saw another new one. Oh, that's what it's a Ultra G. Glad to have you. Oh, that's what it was. It's not ultra. It's Ultra G. Thanks for letting me. I see you there in the live chat. And then another one was Best In Show. Thanks for being with us. I see you there. YouTube War on Conservatives. Thanks for being with us. Kiwi in Springfield. Thanks for your kind words as we love you, James. You and Alpha. I appreciate that. Amazing. Thanks for your support. But yeah, thanks guys. You guys make this fun. We're excited about the future. Thanks for all of your support. You guys help more than you know. It really does mean a lot. But Sean Morrie, thanks for coming by, says, Hey, hey back, my friend. We're glad you're here. Thanks for hanging with us. This is a lot of fun, you guys. I'm excited as we have more debates this Thursday. We're going to have this debate that we've been for weeks trying to set it up on whether or not dinosaurs ever coexisted with man, a juicy one, a fun one. And what some would say out there, it's going to be a fun one. I enjoy those debates. Those are, I think it's like a fun topic. It's something like fresh and changes it up. So it's not just politics and religion debates all the time. Those science debates are a lot of fun. And so I want to say, thanks guys. Stick around for those future debates as they are coming up quick and want to say thanks again for all of your support guys. Love it. Appreciate it and means more than you know. Thanks Kiwi in Springfield says, You demand to see you on Twitter brother. You better believe it. That's right. We're on Twitter folks. If you haven't say hello on Twitter, modern day debate is on there as well. We've got our social media links in the description. But thank you guys for supporting us as we strive to provide a neutral platform so that everybody can make their case on a level playing field as we discuss the big questions of life. Thanks so much and we'll see you next time folks. Let's farm. Are you there in the old live chat? I hope you're doing well. I didn't see you there. Where are you? Let me type this in. Is it let's fair? General Balzac says, Give a shout out for let's fair. I think you meant let's farm, but both let's fair and let's farm. We hope you're doing well. Thanks for all you do in the old discord community for modern day debate. Let's farm and Brooks Sparrow. Thanks for what you do in the Twitch community. We appreciate that. That means a lot and thank you guys for your support as well as Muhammad. Thanks for coming by. See you there in the old live chat. Glad you were with us and excited to see you guys in the next one. Thanks for your support. Love you guys. Have a great rest of your weekend.