 Hello, welcome back. I'm joined by the one and only national treasure in the making Laura Pidcock MP. How are you doing? Hi, I'm fine. How are you? I'm excellent. I'm excellent. Good. We haven't got long so I'm gonna have to get into the sort of the juicy part of the interview that everybody No nice ease whatsoever. I mean you don't know me, but no, that's what I'm like. You are perhaps most well-known at least to the wider public for comments you made not long after coming in MP Where you said you weren't really interested in becoming friends with any Tory MPs Yeah, is that true have you found any sort of outliers and in the nice people you get on with or well I'm glad you've got it right you said Tory MPs because actually there's been so much kind of Diversion from what I actually said in in the beginning I said that I wasn't really up for going for drinks with Tory MPs at the end of the day That is my place of work and of course there are many many many Conservative voters in my constituency and I want to win every one of them I want to be credible to every single one of those people But the idea that and that those people who vote conservative are as culpable as the people in government who are conservative or Tory MPs who are making some crushing decisions about my community that I then just go alright Then I've literally expended so much energy being so frustrated in that chamber hearing Tory MP saying some of the most scandalous things about my community, but you fancy going for a pint I just think it's like the weirdest concept ever. I think I'm being the professional one No, no, it sounds dangerously close to professionalism, which I mean you couldn't say that about many Members of Parliament, could you? Is that the attitude that they're just not treating it as a job? I don't know right. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna tell lies about that place most MPs right do work exceptionally hard But I think this has been this dangerous narrative a lot of the stuff you don't see as well So like you spend hours I've got a select committee tomorrow You spend hours preparing for that so that you're on point, you know what you're talking about people don't see that That's not on the telly But we have been primed for more than a generation to see like consensus politics is like the way forward And I think that's why my comments were kind of there was shock about them that I would say actually no There are clear ideological divisions between me and the conservatives and I'm away from home five days a week four days a week And I've got friends at home I'm not gonna try and make these relations with people who I do think are creating very damaging and Very damaging atmosphere in my community. Having said that I have done a lot of cross-party working because that's a very different thing I've got an early-day motion about upskirting and making sure there's legislation to protect women from having that done to them Hopefully the Tories will sign that that is very different from like cosy drinks on the terrace after work Why didn't the media respond in the way that they did to your comments because it was outright? I mean even to reason may have to kind of had to mention it What why did it go on that kind of response? I think it's a bit pathetic I think it's false outrage or at least it's not outrage at what I really said But some of the underlying presumptions within what I said, and I don't want to be too high for looting about this But I think that's it that what you said actually attacks the very core of Westminster politics If you have somebody and there are many, you know, and on my side that do this regularly Calling out basically a bit of a cozy network that there has been in the past and we can come together We can work on this I'm sorry if somebody thinks that the private sector should be involved in the national health service Or if somebody thinks it's appropriate to roll out universal credit in my constituency on the 13th of December Some people won't get the first payments or the 28th of January How can I work with that kind of person other than a plea and say you're the people in power? Stop this but there are I do the the ideology underpins that action doesn't it? And so I also think there is something else as well, right because yes You get a lot of negative comments people saying I'm a Tory voter in your constituency I don't feel like I'm represented now and I spend a lot of time talking to those people Explaining myself and I think that's quite right because I'm a servant of all the people not just the Labour voters But what about those people right that haven't got a penny in their bank that I've got to go to the food bank But might get rejected because they've already been twice or three times who know that this system is coming So things are already hard and these are people who might have been made redundant because they've been out of work or whatever And then they see me Closing up to people that have inflicted that upon themselves Who who represents them? Will they trust me because I tell you what happened right in that last general election people didn't say They're all the same And I'm happy if people disagree with Jeremy Corbyn or think that you know We're really ideologically driven or whatever as long as they're not saying they're all the same Because then people know there's there's there's people representing them the president You said primed so the presumption previous the last general election at least was it to be successful? You had to reach out that had to be consensus It was about the center ground You and I people that agree politics before the election said actually that's not the terrain anymore And I think more and more people are now getting that How do you think the public thinks about these things? Does it does it look at the comments you made and think Oh, I don't like that. I want them to get along. Do they want a clear choice? What do you think is a not necessarily even the right thing to do but the path to winning? What's the best way to proceed? I think people need to know that you are represented in those communities. So and I think the whole narrative around center ground and almost post ideology is an ideology in itself It's it's it's someone in your party if they say I'm a centrist What does that what does that mean to you when you hear them say it? Well, I would say the general election that's just being taught us that's not what the nation wants or needs right now So you can have that and of course the labour party is a broad church, but that's not what that's not what the That's not what the people want right now. So you have to respect that Like nearly 13 million people voted for socialism and I tell you what I think change is incremental So you have to kind of test Um, what people will think about things and for 13 million people to say actually we've got faith in that I think will give confidence to millions more people to say actually I think I'll vote for that kind of change as well You recently said that the uh, you asked if the the rollout of the universal credit was a matter of gross incompetence or calculated cruelty What does it look like to you? Do you think that the Tories are being? Cool in a calculated fashion for the universal credit. It's both without a doubt It's both and I tell you why in that chamber the other day for the debate on universal credit The minister was like pulling me who was responding It was like pulling his face to one of my colleagues for my colleagues had said Universal credit is about to be rolled out on my constituency But then talked about some people who were already on universal credit The minister didn't even know that there was a first phase called live service where Uncomplicated claimants would go on universal credit first So I was having to tell him from across the chamber. This is the minister responding You're saying well, how would you know if universal credit is a disaster if it's being rolled out today? I was having to say it's the live service So I'm a backbencher. This is the minister responding So that that is shambolic as far as I'm concerned You should know that policy inside out and all of the consequences and unintended consequences The reason I think it's callous is because if you have all of the advice and support agencies telling you It's inappropriate to roll it out in its current form Yet you still do it. So this isn't about you know ideology and the labor party These are professionals working with people on the ground saying you can't roll this out safely In its current form and you do that anyway because you know, you're you're a weak government And it might be like oh another shame shambles because you're scared of the I suppose the fallout from that then that's callous. It's cruel So you said that you were in parliament As a professional assembly engaged in public service and you you take seriously all constituents regardless of who they vote for Because of that ethical public service But it can't be right then to say that the party of government is cruel And incompetent and doesn't even know the policies that it's advocating. I mean that doesn't sound like public service to me. So is this Tory government is it driven by public service? I Think ideology underpins a lot a lot of why many people are there So I genuinely do think and there are many conservative members who are working hard By the way, I'm not saying that they're lazing about or whatever But they are that they have really skewed ideas of poverty So I think that lots of them think that people being poor Is their own fault. I genuinely think that some conservative members think that if I'd had their life I would have chose better or differently and don't understand the crushing What like the oppressive nature of poverty what it does to your self-esteem What having little to no money in your bank account does for your freedoms, for example So it would be hard to conceive why universal credit Would be a crushing system if you have not got that conscience consciousness And so this you know Honestly when you're talking about hunger statistics or poverty statistics or inequality levels They're literally like screwing the face up as in like what are you talking about because they're not seeing it So public servants but public servants that see very different communities than Many of the labour MPs represent You were not a parliamentarian this time last year. You're looking up to Christmas We didn't know there was a general election until I think what 16th of April How much has changed in the last year and What were you doing 12 months ago because you're an outstanding politician But I mean nobody really knew much about you until you were selected Well, I was still running on and stuff like that But just like to my friends and into my constituency Labour Party I feel like I've aged about 100 years in five months, but that's fine I think it's just like quite a demanding lifestyle And I have to caveat it at that point saying like it's not the hardest job in the world Like there are much harder jobs out there that I paid a lot less And so I'm definitely not complaining But I just had more of a private life That's all like you're accessible all the time as a member of parliament And that takes a bit of getting used to So I'd probably be looking forward to like a Friday night drink Like helping sort out the Christmas work party And I was at a charity this time last year Looking at racist ideas and attitudes how they're cultivated in society And what purpose racism has in society And having beautiful conversations with young people Trying to unpick those racist ideas and attitudes So much more kind of immediate gratification out of that job I remember this time last year into December, January A lot of people that were backing Jeremy Corbyn Or were definitely going to be voting Labour For them it felt like a real low point I was one of the very few people that I knew that said Look we can get a hung parliament I never said anything otherwise What do you think that the real possibilities of success And the Jeremy Corbyn in the next general election Looked like before the general election did you Were you a true believer even before you became an MP? Yeah like Were you an optimist? Yeah because you just I remember right I'm not going to you know lie and say I didn't have my low point I mean I never ever doubted that socialism Can be attractive to working class communities If you are not highfalutin' about it And if you talk to people's needs If you talk about what people actually are experiencing at the minute I had my low point Yeah of course because there's only so many times You can have the door shut on your face Saying that your leaders and I are a sympathiser Or you're not economically credible But nobody's questioning the millions in offshore trusts Or bailing out of the banks Or nobody's questioning that status quo And there was a definite turning point during the general election Which was the manifesto But I definitely thought and still do think that What the Labour Party now and its current guys is offering Is really different isn't it Like we were brought up in the Blair years I'm putting you in the same age bracket Yeah I should be older We were brought up in the Blair years and like What that does to your consciousness It gives you a very low class confidence doesn't it It gives you this idea of social mobility And cheap credit and all that kind of stuff It gives you a false sense of what you can achieve In society within this system I think that's burst now It's burst now for our generation And there's got to be a way out But a difference between something like yourself And something like me Is that you came from a historically You know a bastion of the Labour movement And of the Labour Party And I was from the south And I remember that experience Because I went to a grammar school And I remember my mum Having a panic attack about Tony Blair winning And you're like Labour is going to shut down all the grammar schools Typical Southerner But for me Coming from that background There wasn't that living embodied tradition of socialism So I understood the ideas I understood some of the history But for me the real turning point Was the financial crisis of 2007-2008 And then like you say I thought right bloody hell This is up for grabs now The mask can come off Gordon Brown can adopt some really social democratic policies And we can stop pretending this thing Helps people live better lives That didn't happen What was the fundamental turning point For your politics? So have you always been somebody that believed in Socialism and its potential Attractive qualities to the mass of the general public? I don't know Because I do remember the night that Tony Blair took us in office And I remember my mum and dad crying Like with a relation They didn't vote for Tony Blair But they were just so relieved That there might be a system that listened at least So that had quite a It was quite moving Like the relief away from Thatcherism Away from John Major Because what it did to our community Was profound And the community that I represent now Has got scars that are still deep from that era And then the Labour Party came along And it managed things And I'm not saying there weren't loads of Unbelievable things that happened Because of the Labour government But there were also a lot of damaging things as well weren't there So it was about managing a system Rather than transforming a system So that poverty isn't enduring That you can kind of take somebody out of poverty For a little bit To make sure that workers and unemployed workers Actually have control over the paying conditions You have to allow more trade union freedoms and rights Do you know what I mean And that didn't happen And that was a disappointment And I think Our international foreign policy Was very problematic for my family I have massive respect for people That come to socialism on their own Because I didn't I've been socialised through a socialist lens If you like I've been taught Since I was young I remember my mum I once looked at this woman I was like, oh my goodness What is she wearing Because it was freezing And she had a skirt on And she stopped the car And she was like, how dare you She was like, that might be all she's got So just a little experience Sounds like a legend I know she was like, how dare you You do not comment Number one on another fit woman's body Number two That might be all she's got So there was questioning all along I know other people that have been brought up In very well-to-do families That have come to socialism on their own They've questioned the system themselves So I have big respect for that Especially when our education system Doesn't give us all work and class history It doesn't tell us what our class achieved Through their demands It kind of teaches us that The establishment gave us everything that we've got And that's just so not true, is it? And it's certainly not true now So I have big respect for all the anti-austerity movements That have created any kind of change Within this quite oppressive system Because the trade union and those movements Have shaped my politics as well And had a massive impact Final question Obviously Jeremy Corbyn's going to get to Tandowning Street We're going to have a Labour government What are the big lessons that can be learned From the previous Labour government? What are its big failures and how can they not be repeated? I think, and I see it in this government That you can't have this Orwellian double-speak You can't be saying things are getting better When things are getting worse You can't sow false illusions Like you have to be honest with people And I think the biggest thing that I would love Because obviously I'm not in control of the Labour Party I'm like a worker within it, if you know what I mean Is to be really honest with people That to truly transform a system Takes more than a year It takes more than a term That you've got to give us time To change the moral compass of this nation And that is from the grassroots up And from the bottom down And that's not one or the other That it will take all of the movement together Alongside a socialist government And to create that change But patience Because what I never want to do Is like lie to my constituents and say Oh, things are going to get much better And it's going to happen in five minutes It's not It's going to take us time Our investment program takes time Attracting industry, creating infrastructure And there are quick wins Like a pay rise, you know That will alleviate people And that will give people a bit more freedom And take off the pressure Of course there are quick wins To truly change the moral compass And the fabric of this nation That will take a while So don't put I don't want anyone to promise things That aren't going to come to fruition On that note We'll leave it there A multiple term Labour government How many terms? Three, four Forever Forever One by one I won't say it You've been wonderful Thank you so much Thank you This is The Fix We'll be back next Monday My name's James Doney Laura, thank you again Thank you We'll see you Same time, same place next week Bye