 If you want me to continue with my work, it is crucial to support the channel via Patreon. Moreover, make sure to subscribe to Bobby's Perspective on Rumble. All the links are in the description box below. May Allah bless you all. All right guys, welcome back to the channel. If you're new Manus Bobby guys, it has been a while since I reacted to vegan content. So today we're going to react to a Muslim versus a vegan discussing that God put animals here for us. For people that see me for the very first time, I have experiences with both fields. First and foremost, I was born a Christian. However, I reverted to Islam a few months ago. Moreover, I used to be a vegan myself. Shame on me. For four years straight, I followed a vegan diet. I talked about animal rights on my YouTube channel. I truly believe that I'm going to stay vegan for the rest of my life. But nowadays, thank God I'm eating meat again. The reason being, my health failed completely. After four years on a vegan diet, I destroyed my teeth. I destroyed my digestion. I got depressed, et cetera, et cetera. You name it. The list of side effects was endless. I urge everybody to stay away from a vegan diet. Guys, before we jump into the video, if you enjoy the content, leave me a thumbs up. If you haven't subscribed already to the channel, please do so and check out the links in the description box. And now with no further ado, let's have a look. Coming from a vegan background myself, I'm very well aware of this argument. Most vegans are so invested into the ideology, it is a religion after all, that they want to represent veganism in a beautiful way, of course. They want to tell you that you can be healthy, you can be strong if you're abstaining from meat, which is absolutely ridiculous, of course. And therefore, they are lying. They're pretending that they are healthy and they're pretending lying to themselves as well. I've seen it with so many vegans, man. Many vegans drop out after three or four years. The most hardcore vegans, they make it up to 10 or even 12 years. But to which cause? In the end, their health is shattered. Just check it out. Search on YouTube X Vegan testimony and you will see it where thousands of cases of people that were animal rights activists, they were on the front line standing in front of slaughterhouses demonstrating, however, after a decade of abuse to their own body, they cannot take it any longer. So therefore, this is a non argument. If you see a person at a given time and they tell you, look at me, I am healthy, I'm eating only plants. Yeah, wait it out. There is a good reason, of course, why there has been no civilization whatsoever built upon plants. All human beings ate meat up until this very day. And now out of a sudden veganism pops up and tells you that this is wrong, that we are supposed to eat plants only, even though they will admit as well, that we cannot eat only plants, we need to take certain supplements in order to sustain our vegan diet, starting with vitamin B12, going over vitamin D3, DHA, EPA and whatnot. So they're very well aware that you cannot sustain a vegan diet without supplements. And to be totally honest, with supplements, you cannot either because I do not know one long term vegan that is not a chigan. Yeah, but I'm like a living example of how you don't have to. Yeah, previously you did though. Yes, true. Maybe, yeah, yeah, like survival, you mean? But can you really survive? See, that's just common sense. The Muslim still has common sense and says, yeah, but previously you did though. Exactly right. When you were born, you were drinking mother's milk or formula, which is cow's milk. So you were drinking saturated fats, cholesterol, protein, coming from an animal source. That is what it is. And this is what you build your body upon. If you look at Joey previously, he was very obese, he was pretty fat. And then through veganism, he lost a lot of weight. But what is weight loss? People don't really understand what weight loss is. They simply think, oh, well, you're burning off fat. Where does it go? You eat it yourself. If you're eating in a caloric deficit, you're eating less than you need, your body needs to take that energy from somewhere. So your body going to take it from itself. You're eating yourself. This is what dieting is. This is what losing weight is. It's not just evaporating. No, you're using that energy. And therefore, even though you're eating only plants, your body is eating itself. It's eating animal fat, if you will. The fat in your body is equivalent to the fat in a steak. That's what your body is doing. And if you've been pretty obese, then yeah, well, you can live quite some years on a vegan diet. But the reality is, as long as you're burning your own fuel, you're burning your own body, you're not living only on plants. And once all the nutritional deposits are used up, you're going to run into nutritional deficiencies, a.k.a. you're going to become an ex-vegan. It's been nearly a decade for me, bro. Yeah. And all the science is hopefully... All the science. Okay, so... Yeah, he's absolutely right. Again, those guys have common sense, man. First and foremost, it's not all the science pointing to a vegan diet. Of course, not just recently. We had a study that showed that red meat is not a cause of heart attacks, disease at all. But that being said, yet again, the brothers have common sense. What they tell you here is, science changes all the time. And that is, of course, true. If you look at science, it is changing and evolving and developing every few years, every few months, to be precise. So if you go a few decades back, you will see doctors recommending cigarettes to patients for weight loss. This is really what they recommend back in the day. And they didn't see anything wrong with it. Or if you look into the recent past years, what kind of medications have been prescribed, and now people are circling back on that as well. The point is, science is changing always. So why would you use this as a measurement for nutrition? And if we're talking about science, which branch of science are we even talking about, I would say that the only useful science when it comes down to humans and nutrition would be anthropology. Because at least anthropology shows us what humans have been eating for the longest time and how the human digestive tract looks like. Okay, so, but we're all vegan here. All of us. And there's massive vegan movement. And there's really good data on vegan diets as well, like the Adventist Health study to vegan vegetarians had a lower mortality rate. Yeah, absolutely fantastic. Yet again, vegans get outraged when you call them religious people, but then they're listing a Adventist Health study. The Adventist Church is a religious institution. The Adventist Church was very interested in pushing cereal onto their young boys. Why? Look it up, Google it yourself, because they as a church were interested in those boys to abstain from masturbation. That's really what it was. They want those boys to lower the testosterone levels, so they masturbate less. And for that, they were feeding them plans. They were getting rid of the animal fats in the morning, such as bacon and eggs, and they're feeding them cereal instead. This is the Adventist Health science. Yeah, wrong, though. He is religious, of course. His religion is veganism. That's what I was saying to Tristan, actually. I don't know if you watched the whole discussion. But I brought up Islam, actually, because Andrew is a Muslim now. And Tristan was saying he doesn't care about cruelty. And I said, well, in Islam, they have a haram and halal. Yeah, and you have to respect animals. Now, we do, because we believe on the Day of Judgment, if you kill an animal unjustly, God will hold you accountable for that. So basically, now we do, but you've got to kill it humane way. And then there's seven animals you can't eat. And then again, he's going to argue that the humane way of killing an animal, that's what he's going to come up with. Halal way. You cut the throat. If you need to, maybe. If you need to, maybe halal way is the best way. I'll kill him after this. And halal is not no suffering. You know that, right? Have you seen halal slaughter videos? No, vegan halal doesn't mean no suffering. This is not Ahimsa. This is not Buddhism. Halal means permissible and haram means non permissible. That's pretty much what it is. So therefore, yes, in a halal slaughter way, you're reducing pain, you're reducing suffering, but nobody will tell you that there is no suffering at all. You're slaughtering an animal. It is never pretty, never cute. This is not a Disney movie. Slaughtering always implies some sort of suffering. Possible valet. What is this? Have you seen halal slaughter? It's a much higher point. It's got a point. It's got a point where there is obviously that there is companies that valet the policies and that's everywhere around the world. You live here? Yeah, we do live here. Yeah. Okay. So here in the UK, you get chickens. They come from factory farms. 100%. And then they take them from the factory farm and drive them in a truck to a halal slaughterhouse. They halal slaughter them. And they live the life of suffering. You're going to understand that. What I'm saying about halal, as Muslim, if you go and buy chicken at the short store, they come from a factory farm here in the UK, statistically. Some KFCs, they'll do halal chicken, right? And a Muslim might go and go, okay, they've treated this animal with respect. No, complete disrespect. And then they take him to a halal slaughterhouse and killed them. And who knows what goes on in those slaughterhouses, bro? You don't watch. So the point that the vegan makes here is actually accurate just because the animal has been slaughtered in a halal way doesn't mean that the upbringing was good. Most animals do grow up in a factory farm in the UK and then they're shipped to a halal slaughterhouse. That is absolutely accurate. I personally don't have a big issue with that because after all, we have to feed our population. And factory farms are the only way to go for our society. This is the way that it is. However, if you want to make sure that your meat has been properly raised, nobody's stopping you from that either. You can always go to a halal farm if you want to. I agree with some of what you're saying here. But you know, you're advocating for fully banned. That's not what happens. But you're going to understand why animals are not humans as well. So they're not going to have the same treatment as humans. Of course not. There's no nice way of killing an animal, never. Exactly. So you agree, there's no nice way to kill an animal? No, there's not. So then why do we do it? Why do we need to do it? And this is where the childish ideology of veganism truly shows. But it's not nice, is it? So why do we do it then? So is everything that we have to do in life supposed to be nice? How would we live like that? It's so impractical. Life starts with birth. Birth is not nice. The woman is blowing up. Then she has to press this baby out of her pelvis. Then the life of the baby starts with crying. Then the whole process of getting onto its feet is just an endless suffering, starting to crawl, standing up, falling down. So as you can see, suffering is always implicit in life. Even for the Buddhists out there, the Buddha said that life is suffering. And that is true to an extent of course. There's always an implicit suffering in everything we do. During this life of flesh and blood, you will always suffer. And the same applies to the natural world. If you look into the natural world, you will see that everything feeds on each other. Even if you would eat only plants, those plants feed on corpses. They feed on dead animals, dead humans. Everything becomes part of the cycle. Even those plants extract the nutrients from dead bodies. Don't you understand? From death comes life. It's a reoccurring cycle over and over again. Once you understand that reality, life becomes beautiful. And life becomes real. It's not a Disney movie. It's a non-argument of course. I know that Islam has very important parts about animals that other religions don't have. Which is why I have good conversations with Muslims. Causing animals suffering. Yeah, but Islam has one aspect that other religions don't have either. Which is the slaughterfest. It's forbidden. Now in the time of the Prophet, there were not factories. There's suffering they cause in the dairy. Now dairy is halal by default. You go on the shot. You don't look for halal milk. It's always halal. Because back then, there was no factories for milk. You just take it from the goat or whatever like this. Now there's factories, bro. They impregnate the mother. They take the calf away. That causes the mother suffering because they're taking her baby. They kill the calf if they're a male. And then the cow will go to a non-halal slaughterhouse to be slaughtered. Turn into minced meat. Yeah, and you'll take the milk. You'll fund the industry. All right. But it should really be haram. Sheikh Joy Carpström gives us a fatwa. Eating animals. I don't think that there's anything wrong with that. But the way they do it. It's not happening like the traditional way that you think. Whether you have these animals they respect you. If it was happening traditional. No. Because it's needless. It doesn't have to happen. Why do you think animals have important... What does needless mean? So here's all over the place. First and foremost, it tells you, well, you cannot eat animals because it's not like back in the day. Then the Muslim says, but what if it is like back in the day? What if I go to a farm and I do it like back in the day? Then he tells you, no, we cannot do that either because it is needless. Define needless. If you look into the essential nutrients. Starting with vitamin B12 as I said already in the beginning. Vitamin B12 is an essential nutrient that's almost exclusively found in animal sourced foods such as fish, meat, dairy products and eggs. Second, creatin. Creatin is a molecule found in animal foods. Most of it is stored in your muscles, but significant amounts are also concentrated in your brain. Number three, carnicin. Carnicin is an antioxidant that's concentrated in the muscles and brain of humans and animals. Number four, vitamin D3 in the form called calciferol. This is again only found in animal foods. You cannot find it in plants. Number five, DHA is previously mentioned. This is an essential omega-3 fatty acid and it is only found in animal foods yet again. Number six, heme iron. Of course, many vegans are anemic and heme iron is only found in red meat. Number seven, torene yet again only found in animal foods. You do not have this in plants. Another nutrient that is worth mentioning would be vitamin A of course and a couple of other amino acids as well. So the reason why I'm listing all of those nutrients is that you do not have those nutrients in plants. So what does that mean now? Those nutrients are essential. We need those nutrients, but they are not found in plants. So what to do? Exactly, you have to eat meat for perfect health and therefore it is not needless to kill an animal. It is never needless if you need this animal for nutrition. You literally need it. I think that we're put in a world to experience life. What does that mean, man? Sorry, guys. I have to interrupt this video every couple of seconds, but really, what does that mean? That animal has been put into life to experience life. Okay, why does God create animals? Why does God create nature where every animal eats another animal? Could it be that this is actually life for the animals? Could that be? No, we're going to pretend it is not. We're going to pretend they're all living on a beautiful lush greenery and nobody's eating each other, right? They're just cuddling each other all day long. There is no death in this world. What are you talking about? They need to. They need to. We don't. They don't. Okay. Animals eat each other, bro. They rape each other. Lions eat other lioness cubs. We don't eat each other's babies. So we can't look at nature and say that that's ethical. They do it because they have to and cows never harmed anyone. Chickens never harmed anyone. It is about necessity. It is about perfect human health. If you look into modern day diseases, you will see that those modern day diseases came with modernity after the invention of agriculture. You see that we created all kinds of plants that we consume nowadays and it leads to bad health outcomes. However, if you look back into what humans ate prior before they had rampant heart disease and cancers, you will see that they were eating predominantly animal foods. Okay. It's possible to be vegan. You can be a vegan Muslim. No problems. And you're guaranteed. No problems. It's just allow. Because there's no animals being decapitated, no factory farms or something like that. It's the way to minimise the suffering you cause. That's the best way, bro. To minimise. I eat out of factory farms, brother. Because you've got no other option. Yes, you can be vegan. Now, if you go into a store, right, and you go, you get the vegan option, you can guarantee it's allow. Unless it's got alcohol, you just check if some dessert with alcohol, whatever. I don't know if vegan is fully healthy or not at all. It's healthier in many ways. It's healthier. Like you cannot provide any evidence for your claim other than an appeal to authority fellows. You have you seen that one study there? The point of the story is your diet is lacking at least 15 nutrients, 15 essential nutrients for human health. Now, you tell me how this is healthier. It's like a lot of meat, a lot of red meat, a lot of this and that. This isn't healthy. And I know Muslim, Muslim supposed to be, supposed to be look after your health. Are you advocate for health? I'm an animal rights activist. I want animals to have rights so that they don't get exploited and murdered. That's it. I want them to have rights. The most suffering that happens on this earth is for animals killed for food. The most by numbers. The most suffering and killing blood spilt is because of humans lost for animals. We don't need to, bro. But you wouldn't be sustainable in the world. You ain't got enough food to have every single person be a vegan. Here's a good one. Here's a good one for you, bro. Because if we were meant to eat animals, all of us and God would have accounted for population growth. He knows how many people is going to be on the earth. Think, think. They have to grow a bunch of plants to feed to those animals. They have to grow soya, oats, corn. Most of the farmland on earth, 83% has been used for animals. Most of the water, if you think of fresh water, people are starving on earth. Man, this argument has been defunct years ago. So the point of the story is many plant-based foods consume much more water than animal foods. For example, almonds. But putting that aside, vegans don't understand that we are not growing plants for animals. Do you really believe that we are growing plants exclusively for animals? That we such a waste. Most of the products, most of the plant products that the animals then eat are waste products from the human plant production. For example, one major contributor is the beer industry. All the residue that is not used for beer production is actually fed to animals. The same applies for the soy production and the same happens in the bread production as well. What do you think this is? Do you really believe the factory animals are munching on grade A plants? Of course not. They're eating waste products, man. People, if you care about people, he said he doesn't care. I speak to him all the time. He doesn't care. You wouldn't say a human's life is worth more than an animal's life? A human's life is worth more than an animal's life. An animal's life is worth more than our taste buds. And we don't have to cause this suffering. We can eat something else. If you know a farmer in Pakistan living in the mountains and all you've got is access to the modern world and things like that and they don't have access to grow plants and things like that, what are they going to eat? I think they would have access to plants in Pakistan for us in northwest Pakistan. Yeah, so this doesn't take into account the environment that a farmer, for example, in Pakistan lives in. Those guys don't know anything about nature. Vegans are completely removed from nature. This is why they're eating such an unnatural diet to begin with. However, if you look into certain terrain, some areas of the land are fantastic for growing plants and other areas are fantastic for pasture, which means those areas are fantastic for animals to graze upon and then you eat the animals. You cannot eat those plants. They're not for human consumption because we're not herbivores. However, sheep, for example, can eat those plants, those weeds. They're eating them and then we're eating them in turn. So for a family on a mountain, it would be so much easier, so much more sustainable to have a bunch of mountain goats that they can use for milk and for meat, maybe some chickens, rather than planting all kinds of crops that don't even yield on their mountaintop. It doesn't make any sense. And even if they would achieve that, even if they would achieve to grow potatoes or rice or whatnot, they would still need to supplement vitamin B12, at least. Full of mountains and that. Also, there's nothing to grow. So in a survival situation, yeah, but they have to eat animals. But I'm not going to go out and talk to my mother or my brother. I'm not going to go out and bring the TVs out there and go have a argument with the work that's up there. So they would be justified eating it. Yeah. But people do crazy things in survival situations, bro. You know what I'm saying? I mean, justifying the strong words in a bad situation. Yeah. I mean, because people kill each other in bad situations all the time, I don't think killing is justified because in a situation where you can think killing, they do it because they're in a bad situation. So I'm saying to you guys here in the UK right now, you don't need to. The most compassionate choice you can make right now in civilization is a vegan choice. And it would be the most hell-out choice. The least amount of suffering and unjustifiable killing. You don't know what's going on in the other end of the hell-out label. But if you look into it, you might be shocked at what you're saying. The way I look at it, yeah, I understand what you're saying. Yeah. Make some good points. Yeah. I don't want to be with you. Yeah. Okay. But the way I look at it, my God gave us a right to eat animals. And he said he created animals for us as humans. And he said, which animals you can eat. And I trust his judgment more than any human. That's the way I'm going. You're not going to listen to me. Some guy on the side of the road. I understand that. Right. The video is long enough. I'm going to cut it off here. And yet again, for the sake of YouTube, this was not the whole video. If you want to check out the whole original video, go to Joey Carpström's channel and you can see it in its full length. That being said, the last point was extremely important here. The Muslim says I'm going to follow what God has revealed and not what a man says. And that is so important. That has so much depth and the vegan won't understand this because the vegan tells you it is not nice to kill animals. Okay. And therefore we should not. Why? Just because it's not nice. What is it based upon? Joey Carpström says that he is not religious. As I said already, he is religious of course, because he's indoctrinated into the vegan ideology. But nevertheless, let's say he doesn't follow an Abrahamic faith. He does not believe in God. All right. The question then becomes what is your standpoint on objective morality, on objective truths, on what is right and what is wrong? He derives his moral compass from veganism. Veganism says it is unnecessary to eat animals, even though this is not scientifically accurate. But nevertheless, they point towards certain scriptures, certain studies. And those studies say, hey, it is okay if you eat only plants. And therefore this becomes their moral compass. It is all right to eat plants. It is unnecessary to eat animals. Therefore it is wrong to eat animals because animals suffer. This is your doctrine. This is your ideology. However, yet again, speaking to a Muslim, you cannot make haram. What is halal? As he said already, eating animals is permissible for us as Muslims. We cannot eat certain animals like swine, for example, like rats. But other animals are permissible for us. We have the slaughter fest on top of that. We consume meat. It is permissible for us. Islam is very black and white on that subject. Islam shows you what is permissible and what is not permissible. And this is the moral guidance that we go by. As Muslims, but even Christians agree with this or Jews, we do believe in one God. So that God lays out certain laws. This God is the origin of what is right and wrong. Because there is the most loving God, we believe that love originates from him, is coming from him. He is the creator of his creation. We do believe in creationism. You on the other hand, do not believe in God. You believe in random evolution. So if everything evolved randomly, you are random. Your brain is random and there is no right and wrong. They are just opinions. So now if we look into the natural world, we see everything eats each other. But then you say, this is an appeal to nature, fellas. We cannot look into nature. All right, so if we don't look at nature, what do we look at then? You are not a naturalist, you say. But you do not believe in God either. So you do not believe in the natural world. You do not believe in the metaphysical world either. So you believe in humanity, essentially. So this means you follow utilitarianism. Utilitarianism is whatever is good for society. Whatever that means, who determines what is good for society. It's so hilarious. Human rights, they're good for society. We are okay. So personal freedom, you can do what you want. You can open up an OnlyFans, for example. This is your freedom. This falls under utilitarianism. You can do what you want as long as you don't harm anybody. But don't you harm anybody by showing your naked body off? Isn't that harmful? No, of course not. Pornography has absolutely no harm on human beings, does it? No, just do what you will, show off your butt. And if it's not enough on OnlyFans, you can do it in public as well. There is almost no indecent exposure anymore. Women can wear what they want, leggings, hotpants, cleavage out and whatnot. This is your freedom. And this is what you base your ideology upon. Do whatever feels good, right? This is the vegan ideology. Do not hurt anybody and do what feels good to you. And this is why all of those movements go hand in hand. Be it veganism, be it feminism, be it ABCDE, FGEism or what not. All of those movements are godless. All of those movements are atheistic in nature. And all of those movements allegedly are good for humanity. And even from that standpoint, even if you want to take the utilitarian view, why wouldn't you take the perspective of Tristan that you just debated as you said? He is said, he is for human flourishing. And therefore, if you're a factory farms, everybody can eat and everybody wins. This at least would be somewhat congruent. You're a humanitarian, you're a utilitarian and you want the best outcomes for humans. Fantastic. Let everybody eat steaks and sushi and everybody is happy after all. But no, that is not your standpoint. You believe that there is no right and wrong, that there are no universal truths, but you want to tell me that your morel is the right one. Why would I buy into your morel? You tell me there is no god, there is no afterlife, animals suffer though, and therefore we should stop suffering. Why would we, if you're all biological machines trying to survive? This is what evolution teaches, right? Survival of the fittest. And we're gonna die. And there is no afterlife at all. There is no heaven and hell. The lights go off. Why wouldn't I just take that cow out of her suffering? Just shoot the damn thing, end it there. Why would it be a cow in the first place? It's such a heavy existence, right? Just kill that thing. Who cares? There is no afterlife. And there is no judgment for my actions anyways. Why do you care for a halal way of slaughter? You do not care, of course. This is all hypocritical. I can just go and eat the cow alive. I can go out and shoot people. There is no afterlife. There is no right and wrong. Why would I adapt your ideology? It is so pointless. And that is really what it boils down to, man. The vegan argument has not changed at all in the past decade or so. It is nothing but an appeal to emotion fallacy. I cry when I see animals suffer. Therefore it is bad. There is no right and wrong. There is no good and evil. There is no god. There is no heaven and hell. But I think it is bad. And most people think it is bad. Therefore it must be wrong. Fantastic, man. Go back into the 1940s in Germany. Most Germans believed that a certain group of people should not exist within Germany. Is that right, therefore? Because the majority of the population thought it's right. This is so crazy. If you go back in history and you see what people thought was right, later on became wrong. The same applies to slavery, for example. And this is an argument that the vegans tell you about all the time. And this is when you learn that it does not matter what humans think. It does not matter that the majority of a group thinks something is right or wrong. As believers, we only go by what is right and wrong by god. All right, guys. This is it for today's video. If you liked it, leave it a thumbs up. If you haven't subscribed already, guys, please do so. And if you want to support this channel via Patreon, for example, all the links are in the description box below. Thank you so much for your ongoing support, guys. And as always, may God bless you all. Much love and peace.