 Welcome to the Nintendo Prime podcast as always I am your host Nathaniel Rumpeljant, and I am joined like I am almost every single time by mr. Eric Moore Oh, and who? Some of you guys know he's become a bit of a regular in the podcast streams on weekends besides this past weekend Sorry, it's actually by the time they hear this you will have streamed so anyways. Yeah, that's true mr. 5j gaming Hey guys, you know, what's great about this podcast in particular we're recording at the same day Someone told me I did like a channel update video, which I don't do very often They don't get a lot of views. It's just kind of for people who give who give a crap And in the comments there was a hey, we need more 5j So I said don't worry. I'll make sure you get more 5j. He'll be on the podcast. Hey, nice And I know you said kind of want to be a regular so It's working out so far, of course, we're only recording like once every three weeks That was really nice to you to make up that fake comment. It's not made up Video editor go to the I'll give you the information go screen cap that comment throw it up there So they know something yeah, or maybe an alt account. I got to be self deprecating Anyway, this is an entire prime podcast One thing I want to bring up from that update because it there was a about a good five minute chunk of it That was just about the podcast I'm trying to make this podcast a weekly thing and I'm hoping I'm praying that this week You guys will notice a massive audio quality improvement I'm hoping that fingers crossed because we always say this like last week or two weeks ago and recorded It was crap things hit the fan and I broke down and bought an actual mixer You might be able to see the corner of in the video baby cats just right over here to my right And obviously if I start noticing there's too much peeking or whatever I can adjust things on the fly and make it easier in post editing And we can also tell a whole lot easier if it starts doing the chopping thing that screwed it up last week Yeah, which I think was because I was using a virtual mixer and the reason I blame the virtual mixer is because every time We adjusted something on the virtual mixer. It never actually made a difference. Yeah, no it didn't at all So I'm thinking the virtual mixer Has issues Windows 10 has issues of my hardware. I have no idea but a physical mixer so far an old testing It's going well. In fact sands one port it says. Yeah. Well, we don't know We'll see I'd further testing on that one point, but good thing I bought a mixer. That's got enough hookups That it should be fine. It's when we expand to four full people up here Anyways, if the port ends up having issues for sure, I'm gonna try to I got it off Amazon I got it from their warehouse, so it's not technically a brand new unit Maybe this is why I got returned. Yeah, and Amazon didn't properly test it because they probably don't know how to properly test it Anyways, why why I'm bringing all this up is because I want this to be a weekly podcast and Based on the viewership numbers the last two podcasts that we've had It feels like you guys wanted to be a weekly podcast, too Because you guys are showing up in bigger numbers than even some of my daily videos Yes, I know I have certain videos that go to like 30,000, but those are like the exception Right our normal videos are between one to three thousand. I'm seeing podcast videos at three thousand hit five thousand And we're actually doing something different this week with the video version. We're going to attempt I'm saying attempt because I don't know how well it's gonna perform In the past we've been splitting up the podcast with one segment each day, right? So it gives a lot of focus on the singular topic. We're talking about But through the feedback I got from the the channel update video It sounds like people want us to try, you know doing just a single video So one long, you know, hour and a half two hour two and a half. I'll have a long in his podcast video Okay, so we're gonna do that for this episode And we'll see you how the numbers pan out because obviously the issue you run into Doing one long singular podcast is that you can't put all the topics in the title right Yeah, it's really hard to come up with good titles that fully describe the podcast In fact, I know for a fact that like the Zeldin former podcast has seen a dip in numbers at times because they're trying to fit all the Topics in a title and ends up being just one word from each topic and that doesn't attract any eyes You might as well go for a humorous title at that point. Yeah, right Yeah, so it's one of those things where we're gonna try it this week. We're gonna see what happens I know there's a lot of people before watching podcasts in this way And by the way, if we ever do go back to segmented I will let you guys know that watch this video version. We do always have the 100% full audio in the description We have it available on iTunes Someone told me I should try to get it up on Google Play So I'm going to try to get it up on Google Play this upcoming week No guarantee. Otherwise, if you are on Android, you can download the pod being app It's completely free and you can find us on their under Nintendo fine podcast and you can get the episode that way Also, isn't it available on a certain patreon site? Yes, it is so That's another thing I talked about in the update and we're going to bring it up at the beginning of the podcast here is that I've updated some of the stuff on patreon our patreon place patreon.com slash Nintendo Prime is Mostly geared for this particular podcast for people to support this podcast now It can lead to other video shows the box man coming back a second podcast about the rest of the gaming world because I don't Know about 5j over there, but I pay attention to more than just Nintendo out there So it'd be good at times that to expand our horizons and as some people think that there's been a lot of comments that I don't hold Other companies to the same standards I hold Nintendo to it's really weird to hear those comments on a channel that only talks about Nintendo So it's kind of like how would you know what standards I hold the other companies to I don't talk about them This isn't the place for that usually But if enough people want it to happen and it's a really high up the goal It's something like three thousand dollars a month. So it'd be crazy if we ever got to that At that point out that Users have spoken. They obviously really want me to do more and that might even be on a second channel So it's separate from Nintendo Prime. I don't know yet But I was gonna say that it would be you know Xbox subprime Yeah, there you go So there was also a new tier so right now for five dollars a month on patreon You get a full day early access to the audio version of the podcast So the full-length audio, it's not up on pod mean it's not up on iTunes It is exclusively on patreon uploaded to patreon for our backers I think we have like one or two five dollar backers right now And so if you want that just that extra long podcast and you want it ASAP, that's the best way to do it It goes up every Sunday Or every Sunday that we have a podcast coming and that's what sucks about it not being weekly right now Is that you don't know if there's gonna be a podcast coming and I apologize for that But realities are that this is a very time-consuming prospect Today just setting up the audio equipment with a mixer and doing all the testing I probably spent at least a good eight or nine hours today just getting everything set up And that's just setting up that doesn't involve the recording process That doesn't involve, you know, what 5j transferring files and me me compiling the files and getting them to our editor We hired for this and if you can't do it then me turning around and trying to get all the stuff done Well, I'm still making that video content and that doesn't include the planning and the coming up with the topics There's a lot that goes into this podcast. So I mean now that you have it set up Well, yeah, I shouldn't have to spend nine hours a day unless I'm completely changing myself Yeah, but it's one of those things where it just it's a time-consuming thing and And Organizing people to get together besides just me talking about stuff is also more difficult And I am willing to put in that effort if I know there's a high enough demand for the product And that is why I'm patreon.com our very first stretch goal is just a hundred dollars. We get to a hundred dollars a month I guarantee you come a hell of a high water no matter how sick I am Whether Eric can be there or not whether 5j can be there or not Whatever happens there will be a podcast even if for some reason I can't do it I will get Eric out give him the topics have him try to lead the podcast with whoever else we can get on Because if I happen to be out of town or whatever the case may be so Come hell or high water if we hit that mark I will guarantee it happens every week because then I know there's enough people that care now the new tier We added the patreon is the $20 tier and I don't know for ever gonna get anyone to back it But this was actually someone in the comment section suggested that we add a tier to patreon that allows our fans To get invited to be at an episode of the podcast Now it should be noted you do need to be able to record your own audio you need your own, you know Your own camera to record, you know, it could be a webcam. That's fine But you need to be able to record your own video and audio and needs to be of an okay quality You don't need that super high-end setup that we have over here Although I would say this is like the bottom end of high-end It doesn't need to be like super high-end It doesn't even need to be with like a blue yeti mic or anything like that, you know It just so it sounds decent. It doesn't have a lot of feedback and Yeah, if you if you're that $20 tier I will personally invite you to at least one episode per month that you have Subscribed for that $20 for And obviously that can get out of control Having 20 people that do it and that's great if I had 20 people that want to get 20 bucks to be on the back And I will figure out a way to make it work But then obviously I will make adjustments or segments or something like that. What you like a shorter listener segments And they're like hey have a five-minute spot with us and you can ask us whatever you want live on camera Yeah, yeah, I mean there's a lot of ideas I have for the picture number right now You know, we only have a few backers one of them was 5j. I don't know if he's still backs us. Oh, yeah For the one dollar best in what you believe in For that $1. That's okay. You also you also chose $2 I'm shortchanged you should know each individual substance. There's only like four of them But no, I just bring them up because that's what's gonna make this podcast happen all the time And if you would like to be on the podcast again $20 a month, and I will personally contact you for an episode And if we get too many I'll obviously have to restrict it back or potentially I hate saying this raise the price, but I'll keep that $20 here and just turn it into maybe that's the Q&A tier Maybe like once a month you get to do like a Q&A with me and Eric or whatever and just ask us anything What about the 10 no about Nintendo Prime? But anything because it's Q&A. It's whatever you want But let's just get right into the podcast Right, yeah, yeah, right It's like 10 minutes in Well, I just wanted to get that out there because I know a lot of people didn't hear the first time around so very Yeah, let's get into what you guys are here for the Nintendo Prime podcast our first topic this week I don't know if this is a surprise, but we're talking about third parties on Nintendo switch again So let me go down the highlights here just from the last time that we had the podcast Well, what's happening with third parties on the Nintendo switch and when I say third parties I'm essentially talking about AAA not talking about b-tier or you know indie titles Right, so virtuous is porting a high-profile title High-profile means AAA Previous titles that they have worked on for ports include the et-seal collection Assassin's Creed Batman return to Arkham and Final fantasy remasters and this came off of a guy who works there's linked in He hasn't listed in his LinkedIn that he's working on a high-profile switch Port of something we don't know we don't know what of but it gives you the idea So they work with Square Enix they work with the Ubisoft They were to WB so you kind of have an idea that this is gonna be a big game whatever it is I don't I mean, I know some people are crossing the fingers. It's like Assassin's Creed Origins or something But yeah, I mean that's the only game. We really know of unless it's a Final Fantasy You know, I didn't find a 50-15 just come out this year. I Think it was like November of 2016. Oh, okay. Yeah, I might have been last year So yeah, again, you know, we don't know what it is. We know it's a triple-a game On top of that before I get into kind of a flip turn on some weird triple-a news Capcom has noted in their financial reports That several switch version games are in the works and they and they phrased it as like these are games Other other people are getting so it's multi-plant And Capcom again is a triple-a developer. So the only game they have out on switch right now is ultra Street Fighter 2 But they have Monster Hunter double-cross coming and I thought one other game. I Can't remember off the top my head Ubisoft We know that they're working with Nintendo Rabbids plus I'm sorry to the Romario plus Rabbids Kingdom Battle for some reason I was on Rabbids plus Luigi The engine that game uses is snow drop and one of the developers behind the game Noted that when they put snow drop on the switch it ran Pretty much flawlessly they barely had to make any adjustments to make it run on switcher. They were really surprised by this And snow drop is the engine that they even know themselves They used it in the most recent game. They use it in was South Park the fractured butthole Got a little silver. Oh, I know and the first game it debuted in was the division So the reason this is a big deal is because snow drop is Ubisoft's new engine as of 2016 and Assassin's Creed origin the stuff is built on anvil, which is their old engine But like EA who came up with frostbite This is like over time all their games will start using snow drop instead of using the old anvil platform Because it's apparently a better engine just like frostbite. It's apparently a better engine. At least that's what EA says That's what Ubisoft says and the person who said this even said like all of our games are going to be on snow eventually so The fact that switch supports it really easily It could potentially doesn't mean anything but it could potentially be a sign that More of Ubisoft's games once they're on snow drop could be coming in the future Yeah, and then I got two weird notes one of them is the NBA 2k 18 It's still releasing on release day with all the other versions Which I think is September 19th, but only as a digital version the physical copy has been delayed till fall Really weird, so it's kind of like I'm kind of like it's there at launch the games obviously ready But like hey, we can't give you the physical version So there's some rumors behind that the cut is our cartridge shortage. I don't know what's going on there It's always cartridges that are the problem exactly and then Nintendo Yes, thanks too long to apply it. Yes, I gotta find three codes The last interesting note So rainway We know what's coming to switch eventually I don't think it's gonna arrive on it this year But they're start rolling out versions of it in November from various platforms Rainway is a PC streaming app that's coming Xbox one PlayStation 4 switch and I think mobile devices for some games One of the developers of rainway posted a video on their Twitter of the Witcher 3 Running on switch through rainway So proof of concept proven the Witcher 3 which the switch most definitely cannot run in its current state Running on a PC You know God knows what settings streamed over to the switch screen granted in 720p, blah, blah, blah, but whatever impressive stuff so Third-party baby, what are our thoughts on the developments that are happening right now? It's all good signs Except for the NBA thing. What's up with that? Yeah Like the game's ready, but they can't have a physical version that much Well, we're kind of seeing weird stuff with physical releases of everything like when the rhyme developer was like Oh, sorry We're actually going to 10 bucks more for the physical version and then everyone was an uproar, you know But we're seeing weird stuff like that every time that Nintendo bucks the trend and goes cartridge Expensive I mean, I know price breakdown show it's actually a lot closer to discs than people think but it is more expensive and What we have to remember with indie developers are to make what indie developers are used to just digital only all the time Yeah, so when they make any move to physical they suddenly realize oh heck It's more expensive to get the game. We're making way less per unit. Yeah So they're gonna adjust the prices so people like oh, but it doesn't cost that on PlayStation 4 PlayStation 4 have a physical version You know that Switches a physical version of binding of Isaac the other platform to the physical version Getting one they are but they don't have it. They didn't have it when the switch did It's like that thing where I don't know what it is But indie developers have no problem getting physical versions of games. Oh, it's weird Yeah, switch that I mean, maybe that's because they're worried about the you know only the 32 gigs of internal space So they're like hey Nintendo We want to do physicals if you don't have to store it on the system But and the thing is if they can get cartridges, why can't NBA 2k? Especially since that games would advertise with the platform since the very first switch debut I'm thinking that indie game Makes like 10,000 cartridges not literally I'm making these numbers up. This is NBA 2k One of you know the best selling sports series on other consoles They're probably expecting huge numbers on physical cartridges, especially since There are NBA players walking around with switches in their hand in their interviews I follow NBA off-season. This has been like the greatest NBA off-season ever It's so insane the number of superstars that have changed teams. Yeah, because they're all trying to catch golden state It's crazy And there's even rumors out there that my bucks are trying to get Kyrie Irving Which I hope they don't do because he's not gonna resign with us. Yeah at all. He's not gonna stay in Milwaukee but yeah, it's I just I worry And that this could signify issues for other third-party developers because we have to remember that every third-party game That's coming to switch so far from a triple-a perspective are basically ports of all games Except for NBA and FIFA and the new wrestling game and the new wrestling. Yeah, WWE 2k 18 And for all we know, maybe WWE 2k 18 is gonna have the same issue Just hasn't been announced yet It's just really interesting to see that that's a problem But I think I think what we're seeing here is and I've noted this in a couple of videos just covering a couple of these new stories in the past Third parties I think are starting to buy in the switch Yeah, I told everyone 2018 was gonna be the year forget about 2017 2017 is about showing demand and Nintendo creating a consistent release 2018 was wondering we're gonna be like hey third parties. Okay, we can't ignore this thing the few games We have released have sold really really well, you know Who thought that ultra Street Fighter 2 was gonna almost outsell the combined versions of the other Street Fighter 2s on PlayStation 4 and Xbox one We saw that really yeah, I did not see that almost out almost Almost what like a 40 or $60 game 40 40 Well, it was like 20 and under on other platforms That's it was like 15 on Xbox and $10 on PlayStation 4 now before everyone yells at me Ultra Street Fighter 2 is technically unique to Nintendo switch There is no other ultra Street Fighter 2 and the other platform, but let's be honest There's like Street Fighter 2 HD remix and all these games Street Fighter 2 has just been rehashed over and over again And I get that there is like unique features in this version of Street Fighter 2 especially for switch I don't think it was unique features of that great motion control version Yeah, I don't think that I don't think the unique features of that great But it's still a good game because Street Fighter 2 is a good game. So it's like, okay Yeah, it's not exactly like the other versions, but it's still Street Fighter 2 So I feel like it's comparable and those other versions when they came out didn't cost $40 at launch So either way, it's like a price couch compared to other Street Fighter 2s But again, it's sold like 450,000 copies Maybe even 500,000 by now cuz that you know that was like a month, you know a month old data. So it's like Yeah, people bought it and and I know a lot of people say, oh, well, it's because there's content starved on switch I'm like, but like everything is selling How content? Well, how what does that excuse go away that it's people are just buying names because their content star sniffer Clips sold well what you switch is sold over a million copies over two million. I think actually Mario Kart 8 deluxe is almost outsold the original Mario Kart 8 in less than eight weeks Breath of the Wild is already still doing record numbers. It has not become the best sellings all the game all the time There's not no switches out there for that No, it's not. No, it's not any more switches out 4.7 million breath of the wilds around 4 million So they actually kind of cut up a little bit. Yeah And if you think about it like spittoon 2 just came out and sold like hotcakes at least in Japan We don't have any numbers from North America yet, but in Japan, holy crud It's sold like 700,000 copies the first week 100,000 switches so which was every single switch and then switches went up last week or I'm sorry earlier this week There's like a thousand switches at an online retailer and it sold out within something 90 seconds and Japan And I guarantee you probably sold that fast in the States as well It's crazy right now how popular the switches and I feel like this is what third parties have been waiting for They wanted this momentum and they wanted to see that it wasn't just Nintendo games doing it. Yep Ultra Street Fighter 2 is doing it. So a tune 2 is doing it now Monster Hunter is probably going to be doing that again next month Skyrim they'll be very interesting to see how well Skyrim does. There's a lot of people that are like Hey, I'm gonna buy Skyrim for the fifth time because it's portable. Oh, yeah And and that's got to be the key is that portability is a huge unique factor I mean like you said in Street Fighter 2 is everywhere But how many versions of Street Fighter 2 can you take with you? Yeah, well very few and I think you know some people Since we will bring up that Yeah, well that was the reason people should have made Vita games, right? The third party should have ported their games all the Vita because Vita was like portable home console And I get it and I get that you can kind of compare the power differences between the Vita and the PlayStation 4 To the switch and the PlayStation 4 Pro or whatever like that's fine You want to compare the power differences that way, but I think switch provides one an easier platform to develop for So far every third-party developer that's attempted to make a game on switch has had nothing but glowing praise for how easy the platform is to make games on and I think that really helps that it's a tagger. It's tagger technology It's been in the market for a little bit. So NVIDIA said time to perfect it and get driver updates and all this stuff and Because it's in Vita technology They're providing the tech support and they're providing the tools to develop on it Which is really good for Western developers because they have they don't have to go through translators To figure stuff out. They can just hop. They literally just call up and they can get tech support right away It's and I gotta say stuff Compared to the Vita that actually the specs on on the switch are amazing. The screen is higher resolution It's much bigger. All the buttons are larger. The control sticks are longer and feel more natural You have two sets of triggers less compromising. Yeah package for console games And it can be docked with the TV easily and outputs 1080p So it's got all these advantages that the Vita just the Vita felt like it was too much of a sacrifice Going from a PlayStation 3 or PlayStation 4 to a Vita To at least to me it felt like too much of a sacrifice the buttons were just way too small I know that's a criticism with the switch, but they're even smaller on the Vita The sticks are impossible to use on the Vita whereas on the switch It almost feels like normal thumbsticks. Yeah, yeah normal triggers And yes, you can actually use a full-size controller anyway Yes, and you can use a full-size controller And I'm sure some people found a way to do that with Vita through Bluetooth or something But the only thing I think the Vita had the advantage on and it's questionable if it's an advantage is they had 4g lte Internet on some versions of it. Obviously you could have internet everywhere Which again get through your cell phone provider. So yeah, yeah, I mean you can't tell that your phone with switch But you have to do that in dock mode. So there's no USB No, you can do a wireless tethering. Oh Oh, yeah, you can set up as a wireless up. I totally did not that I would want to every game Collection, oh god, I would never want a game over over my phone's connection like that Maybe the download games or something. I have unlimited internet my phone package So I don't have any fear of downloading. I guess if I want to do that So I think third parties are well while the proof is in the pudding, right? We don't know until games get announced, right? Well, this is just a lot of chatter a lot of positive chatter and until chatter becomes something tangible It's hard. I can't look you in the face audience and be like, hey look Just wait 2018. We're getting mad. We're getting people getting call of duty. We're getting Red Dead Redemption 2 we're getting this we're getting that I can't tell you that because Right now it's just companies talking positively. It's not companies giving us something They're just you know, like like Capcom or a cap like I pull maybe Capcom is gonna start bringing full support Well, you know their next game now is resident evil Revelations one and two that feels like they're tipping their dip in their toe in the water because resident evil or resident evil Revelations one came on a 3DS And maybe they are still dipping their toe in the water But at least this time when they're dipping the toe It's a title that hasn't been on Xbox one and PlayStation 4 yet and is coming to it around the same time Mm-hmm. I say around because the switch version is technically coming out a little bit later Again probably because they made the decision to develop it on switch a little bit later than they did in Xbox one on PlayStation 4 So the version of what your resident evil revelations. Okay. Okay. I wondered if you said and they're gonna be releasing the Revelations to with it as well People can optionally get so did that end up on we you I don't remember the second one Even got to we you never did the first one really bad on we you sales wise It's so sad they didn't put it on 3DS first like the new the first revelations It was a great 3DS game. Well, I thought that's looking through DS games They made they ported one over to other platforms and did well over there HD Yeah, so I think they wanted I think they wanted to tap into that PlayStation Xbox crowd PC crowd etc Because the 3DS one only did okay sales wise wasn't great Which is why they ported it, which is why they ported it to a whole bunch of platforms, right? Yeah, it's crazy What's cool about that version of revelations that they're doing now on switches They're gonna include like I think they said four different control styles including the original from 3DS So people who liked that single control stick controls. It's there. You want to put use it? See I bought the special boat for my 3DS when that game came out now I was using double sticks all the way sure sure the boat Was really good for Monster Hunter. I got to say yeah That's the only reason I even had one for like a month, and then I stopped playing Monster Hunter So Monster Hunter is like in your life away game. Yes Love games like that just So yeah, I think it's just all around third parties I think are giving us a reason to be optimistic that they're going to support the switch starting in 2018 So that that's all good news in my book moving on to the second topic Oops, I moved back to some former product. I'm like hey June NPD. I thought we'd already talked about that so Nintendo's Always been known as kind of an E for everyone company, right? A lot of times the reputation is Nintendo makes games for kids. Yep. It's a family It's a family it's a family thing They don't make games that appeal to teenagers and adults and blah blah blah, and I made a whole video kind of debugging that notion a little bit I mean, I guess it's easier for me to have that opinion. I'm 31 and they're appealing to me I guess I'm are you kid or a squid? But What I want to talk about here for a little bit is Nintendo's E for everyone reputation People always argue that it kind of holds Nintendo back There's a lot of people like when I mentioned the potential of Grand Theft Auto 5 on switch They would say things like Nintendo would never allow that game on switch and And the reasoning basically wasn't because it's rated M for mature and it's like but Nintendo has been letting rated M games And their system is pretty much forever Remember when there was an exclusive GTA on DS for a while. Yeah, exactly like they actually had GTA on their handheld They're obviously gonna be fine with it being on switch It's one of the best-selling games of all time 80 million copies. It's all of that. Why wouldn't they want that on switch, right? It's up to rock starters. They want to do it. Let's see an audience for it You know and then you got look at other things like you know Zelda has been rated T before Brutal why I was E10 plus Mario the Super Mario Odyssey This is this is the first time in the history of Mario. It's rated E10 plus. It's not just E I don't know why we have no idea why maybe it's because of the T-Rex beats me He's scary, but they're you know, it's rated E10 plus Skyrim is not rated E for everyone That's for sure and Nintendo is all proud to get in that game So in that a man that a to lose of do we use the thing Nintendo paid for being at a to Paid for it. I played that game recently on stream and my goodness. Yeah, that's very much an emirated game Nintendo being you know holding back developers and not allowing these kind of games Nintendo paid for a playboy model to dress as Bayonetta at the debut of Bayonetta to at Nintendo New York store They're only store in the world They paid a playboy model to dress up as Bayonetta and do sexy poses and take pictures of people Why weren't we there because it's in New York? So Oh my god, Eric, you know what we made it in center-prime when I can hire the Bayonetta model just for you there Yeah, yes, actually, you know, I have hope because they renamed the Nintendo store. Was it Nintendo of New York? Yeah, so that makes it sound like they might do more stores in Minneapolis come to Minnesota America, please Um, actually well if one of this corner stores goes out that'd be a perfect place for they're not gonna take over to place that big Who expensive that won't Nintendo has the money, right? Yeah, I don't think we'll replace that big So I guess the talking point for here is Why do we think that Nintendo has this reputation of not letting these games on despite the mountains of evidence that? Nintendo has no problem with rated M games or more mature content I Go ahead Eric. I he's thinking I'm then thinking go ahead. Okay. Yeah, I think largely Because Nintendo is the front-runner that is kind of the example everyone looks to and I think based on Mario's history and the type of game they make for Mario. It just ends up being e Rating, you know, it's it's not a particularly violent game. It's a game about skillful platforming Collecting coins and stars, you know, it's not a particularly graphic game You know, he's not cussing when he falls down a hole or something Right Exactly they don't they don't gush blood when he steps in their head, you know Yeah, it's that's not the style of game that they they make for Mario and that's their big mascot but he is in Smash Brothers Brawl and Melee and Wii U and I believe all three of those are rated T and he's a prominent character They put it right on the box. So I mean, they're not completely afraid of it He's sitting there punch and link in the face or or even Daisy, you know Beach, you know hitting ladies in the game So I mean they're not they're not scared of letting him do something outside of the zone It's just that's not the type of games. They're making for his court series Well, and you even have to look at other series. They have right, you know, like, you know, play Chronicles We're getting to the Chronicles 2 that is not an e game And the thing is something being rated e doesn't mean that it's aimed at kids, right? It's just something I always try to emphasize when someone's like, oh, haha Who's gonna play Breath of the Wild? It's E10 plus. It's for 10 year olds. It's like, have you played Breath of the Wild? No, I'm not saying that 10 year olds can't play it. That's fine I'm not saying 8 year olds and 5 year olds can't play it. Of course they can But right it's target audience is clearly not that age Yeah, I remember the whole industry kind of imploding about how amazing Breath of the Wild was everyone was talking about it And look at a lot of the people who are super excited about Super Mario Odyssey These aren't like 5 year olds running in the streets all excited about Super Mario Odyssey They might not even be aware of the game It's the 30 year olds who are playing Super Mario 64 Exactly. The hype around these games is very clearly in the court of Rating not being what determines the target audience rating is basically the ratings board essentially just looks at what are the worst You know word said it was a cussing in the game What are the themes of the game like the theme is about killing Nazis as an example? That's obviously got got to be rated for kids. What? But it's with a bubblegum. Come on, right, right. Yeah, I mean come on How many how many squids have I killed in this right? Yeah, I'm Rooney Marine wildlife. Yeah Yeah, but no red ink because that might look like blood What if that what if we find out that squids blood is actually green so we're actually Actual green right all the time. They'd censor it Blur it out. We decided not to change the color. We're just gonna blur the texture Right I think squids squids blood is actually a different color if I remember I But I have something's telling me that it is a slightly different color than red all I know but is that Nintendo's games just because no, it doesn't matter what they're rated They truly are for everyone kids can play Zelda kids can play this but I mean think about think about you here's an example where ratings don't matter call of duty is basically an emirated game all the time and What's the reputation call of duty has when you go on the online voice chat? It's a bunch of kids screaming at you in the headset. Yeah, yeah, oh my god Telling you a bunch of words that they have no business even knowing right their age, right? Yeah, and That's a prime example that just because a rating says it's for adults doesn't mean that that is the Audience playing it now. I firmly believe the primary audience for call of duty is adults I think a majority of players are adults But it's one of those things where kids are still playing parents are still buying it for kids parents are blatantly ignoring the ratings Like they don't even matter And there's yeah, and there's nothing you could really do about that besides just outright saying it's illegal to sell games Even a parent say it's okay, you know, just like it used to be legal to drink with your parents at Wisconsin now You can't do it anymore So laws change, but I don't see them doing it because it's a consumer product that isn't Technically harming you and other steadies out there Yeah, I don't encounter studies that are that prove it's all bunk. It's just like just like there's steadies out there I was just watching John Oliver made fun of this guy and I forget his name and I knew to who just spews a bunch of conspiracy theories non-stop non-stop as an audience Yeah, yeah It was I don't remember his name. They kept spewing a bunch of not he's a six million viewers a week through his radio show and Every like it's literally like every three minutes. He spends two minutes Pubbing up a product on his website for people to buy, you know, and and he's always and oh We're just about to go to business as he's wearing like $80,000 Rolexes on his hand. It's been proven He lives in like a five million dollar mansion And we're like we got to do this to keep the lights on her out here. Yeah And Like he's got a doctor around there that that isn't actually doctor But he's saying well, I'm an MIT alum and when you ask MIT they'll say it's not correct to say he's an MIT alum He went to MIT Doesn't actually have a full degree from MIT. He isn't actually a doctor Nice, and he they lie. Oh, but he also attended classes here. So he's all annoyed attending classes to make an alarm So I'm an alum from stout CVTC. Yep, DeVry Ever active classroom. I'm an alum apparently It's just funny and this kind of brings back into the gaming aspect where just because a game is labeled as something doesn't mean that's what it's for and The ratings board is taken into consideration things that they probably showed the kind of the same thing They're taking consideration for TV ratings And unfortunately video games often get lumped in with how how they how the board looks at with video games, but When you're playing Mario Odyssey when you played Galaxy back in the day Galaxy 2 Super Mario 64, you know, you put it when we were kids We still have just as much fun with that game today as adults as we did back then No, yeah Because these games are literally made for everyone with a challenge level that entertains adults Like you don't have to have super realistic art styles if the concept is great I mean, let's just think about Splatoon 2 we've all played Splatoon 2 Splatoon 2 is fantastic and The thing about that game is it might feel like oh, it's got a kitty art style The single player isn't that difficult. Go ahead and play a multiplayer match and tell me there's no skill in Splatoon 2 Yeah, there are people that that play it like professionally or get ranked really high That'll tell you the skill set in Splatoon 2 is almost just as high if not higher than playing Call of Duty Competitively and it's like yeah, because it is Splatoon Nintendo has this unique thing where they can appeal to getting people into something and then offer that serious level of play On top just like they do with Smash Bros. Smash Bros. Has that general appeal to get people in but get into the competitive scene and you tell me it's not just as serious as any other Fighter out there, right the level of skill that exists in those games So yeah, I think the reputation Nintendo has Is stemmed one because they do make more cartoony looking games in general They were just rated as the though literally were just rated as the number one a triple-a publisher in terms of Their average ratings on their games are lowest among all triple-a developers So that kind of backs up the statement. Oh, you know, they make games But it's age-appropriate rating not their review score rating. Yeah for clarification everywhere Like that doesn't make sense Finally enough on Wii U There was a long time our Nintendo actually had the highest average review score of the games for a while I don't know if that's still true anymore, but that was like two years ago But I guess you don't have a lot of games in the platform When you just have like 10 first-party and I know there's more than 10 good 10 great games on Wii U But yeah, it's I really think it's a lot of it stems from you know Even from the early days where you you think and you look at all the games that were there in the early days You know, you're you're Legend of Zelda your Donkey Kong your Mario your stuff like that your conquerors bad for a day But I mean they have more of the kidding us. Yes, they have kind of the more Castlevania that's right The more those are the bigger bigger things that everybody knows You know are mainly You know in a way quote-unquote kid-ish because you got a donkey you got it or you got sorry up an ape Yeah, I'm a donkey a Kong. Yeah, I'm sorry. Wow It's been a long day And then you got this plumber dude who's you know, I mean It's not he's not like Ultra realistic Like a man player he's ultra realistic. I get I get where you're saying so it's I think that's kind of where it's kind of all Again, like you were saying it's all cartoony. It's it's a little bit more in wait kid-friendly. So that's that's why Family-friendly is kind of always been the reputation and it's well-earned that doesn't mean every game is that way It's you know by chronicles, right? We're about right they have examples and over time They've made more and more games that are definitely not family-friendly and they fund it and support it and I also think a lot of it actually does have to do with the fact that Third parties weren't a part of it either and the Nintendo is just make them making their own games themselves And that's kind of the way that we're we're going I Wasn't like are very focused on the art because even even the Super Super Mario Brothers was a Groundbreaking for its amazing art style, right? It it blew other games out of the water because they all had these black backgrounds that nobody cared about You know and I feel that's more the thing They're always trying to push the envelope how can we advance the art styles of these games and do something unique and Consistently when you go back then all the games that were trying to be hyper realistic ten years ago look awful And all the Nintendo games are trying to be very art forward look great Yeah, no, I totally agree with you I think and I think one thing we have to clarify here is this reputation that Nintendo is Family-friendly and good friendly is not inherently negative. Yeah, no There's nothing wrong with being family-friendly, but having your content appeal to adults There's literally nothing wrong with that and there's also nothing wrong And I'll clarify this as well if you like the hyper realistic art So as you like the witchers you like the call of duty's assassin's creeds of the world There's nothing wrong with that either and I think it's the clashing of Those two crowds that that see Nintendo's art styles are timeless other people think yeah These other styles remind me more of what I see when I go in my backyard or whatever That's fine And I think both sides of the equation need to learn that people appreciate different things I'm someone that appreciates all of it. Yes, I love all of it So it's like it's when I hear people complaining from from either side of the spectrum. It's like why Why just cuz someone like something you don't cares then don't you don't have to play it That's it. This is a consumer product. You just don't have to play it. Yeah, so okay Why do you care if someone else plays it like when I you know, I've had people call me Oh, you're kind you're a kid or I had people tell me oh, I'm surprised you're 31 and you like Nintendo And it's like why what does it matter? I grew up on Nintendo. Yeah, I like Nintendo like why does it matter at all that I like Nintendo Does it make you think less of me because I like Nintendo? It's like well, it doesn't make you seem kind of kiddish I'm like I'd rather seem kiddish than an immature adult. That's for sure I've seen what some of those man's out there do and let me tell you it's pretty High school middle school ish. Yeah stuff. I The drama it's just that anyways That's the thing that with Nintendo there there doesn't ever seem to be that kind of drama Surrounding it outside of when Anita Sarkeesian tries to act like Every Nintendo game ever is sexist for some reason But that's that's a conversation for a different day She's she's and I have nothing against her as a person as a human being but she takes things a little to the extreme Yeah, I think she does it for views I assume that's what she does it for So moving on to our next time we briefly talked about Smash Bros. And something really bad happened in the Smash Bros. Tournament community So what happened is that organizers of an event from seven months ago Organizer a beast. It's a fighting game tournament hasn't paid their winners From seven months ago worse than that The beast representative statement To the site that was covering it says that the winnings unfortunately cannot be paid The money intended to go to the prizes has been spent to pay for the unexpectedly high cost of hosting the tournament The intent was never to make people forget and move on when delaying the information about the prize money because they weren't even forthcoming to Winners, but or you're not gonna get it. It took them this long to find out We were concerned for the health of Lolex who was a person who was managing the money And chose not to push him too hard since we still needed his cooperation When pressed about the nature of the concerns about Lolex's health the beast rep clarified his mental health And here's here's the skinny on it. There was 15,000 plus dollars in prize money across six tournaments that was not paid out Lolex himself who was managing the money has a history of actually being bad with money So like they knew ahead of time this guy's not good with managing money Adam Armada Lindgren is the one who won the melee bracket and ramen mr.. R Della shot as a was the one who got first in the smash for bracket. So This you know first off this sucks This is the kind of thing that kills the smash community There's not a lot of like cash prize smash tournaments out there because Nintendo Doesn't openly support prized smash tournaments Capcom and other companies do they'll even offer to the pony up for some of these tournaments like it like an evo They will help pay some of the cash prize Nintendo doesn't do that. So all these cash prizes come from ticket prices or donations that come in etc Because smash is a huge draw that that's a so weird Well, why Nintendo doesn't back it is because smash is one of the biggest draws in in the fighting professional game Issue and even like Hungrybox one of the best smash players in the world tried making a stand, you know earlier this year After he won a tournament and sort of stage and kind of diss Nintendo Because it's weird as Hungrybox was on stage with Reggie at the Nintendo World championships before e3 Just rocking him at smash And here he is like just a couple years later and he's standing on stage And he's dissing Nintendo for not supporting the smash community properly. Yeah, because What Nintendo I don't think understands about the serious fighting game tournament stuff is that to be a professional at it That's what you do for a living. Oh, yeah, for sure. You have to spend 40 50 60 80 hours a week perfecting the smallest little thing To prepare for your opponents And I know a lot of people out there might say, oh, you should not be able to game and do that for a living You probably the same people that think I shouldn't be able to do a podcast to do it for a living It'll talk about gaming and I understand that perspective I get it because it's hard for you to fathom this new way of someone doing something for a living But I guarantee these professional gamers work just as hard at their craft as anyone else doesn't programming as anyone else does as a cashier Oh heck are you probably even harder work than the cashier because I have the cashiers. I see don't give a crap You're right. They're just there to collect a paycheck and go home Whereas these people like they have to be at the top five percent in the community if they hope to make any money Oh, and they're barely even there. They don't make money. Yeah. Well, sometimes they do Sometimes they do because there are sponsorships and and like right you know how people like buy a whole team and then that whole team Yeah, and that can get interesting to like some of the a lot of times that happens like the team lives in the same house So like you're not really even making necessarily a wage you can live off of The company cuts able to afford it because they kind of group you together to cut costs and everything But still whatever it's it's just how the community works and not every professionals like obviously there are professionals I play like Madden and Call of Duty and they do make enough to make a living They don't have to have their sponsors like put them up in a house or whatever they can afford their own place But the smash community Has almost no support from Nintendo other than Nintendo saying yeah, we like that It's like Nintendo pushed really hard for Smash 4 to become a tournament game But at the same time they're not supporting it with any money Like you'll see at events like evil Oh, they will require evil to put Nintendo's logo on as a sponsor But Nintendo's not actually given any money to evil to do anything with they're not helping pay for the event to go on They're not giving any prize money. So like you're sponsoring in that you're just saying you officially are allowing smash to be there Right. Smash has already been there before without your permission. Yeah Yeah, okay, so So we have this issue now where there's this professional tournament but by under beast where these players are not getting paid It's not just smash obviously this was across six different games At school was one of them. Yeah, and okay CS go is one of them and we have to obviously the two smash tournament games and This to me bothers me one this company shouldn't you know beast? Should never be allowed to run a tournament again Low likes should not be allowed to be involved in a tournament ever again in looking up this story a little more I think that beast has disbanded That that that might be true what I read in the original report was that they 12 members of their team quit Yeah, whether or not that means it completely disbanded. I have no idea But like a huge chunk of their team quit which of course, I'm probably didn't get paid either Oh, we don't know what happened Oh, we didn't anticipate the cost of the event It's funny because you have to put down the down payment on this stuff I'm pretty sure you said contract with that. What what do you know what the venue is gonna cost? Yeah, you might not know the more they charge it for electric Maybe you don't know the exact electric bill They give you an estimation of people who own the building I mean the only thing I just think of would be damages that But you should have insurance in place right to help with that Because you a lot of like even a comic on something they have an insurance company So if a fan does do something stupid and run through a wall, it's not gonna destroy comic on right It's gonna be just really their insurance premiums go up for the next one But you know, they don't have to pay all that damage right pocket So, yeah, it's a very interesting thing to me where This company maybe they disbanded now, but like low-lux it was well-known and should never have been involved in touching the money And the fact that they wanted to be careful with him for his mental health And I can understand mental health is a serious thing Oh, yeah, if he has mental health issues, why is he managing money? And if he's just mentally ill because he knew this was gonna blow up and do a big thing and the company tried To make the players be hush-hush about it. Hey, don't say anything publicly about it You know because it's gonna cause a rift and maybe you'll get your money eventually and now they announced they're not gonna get it at all That sucks those players put in hundreds and hundreds of hours dedicated entire weekends travel costs. Yeah hotel stays Yeah, you know all this stuff to go to this tournament and yes Obviously a lot of them do that with the understanding if they don't finish in a certain top ten or top five or top three They're not gonna make any money but to do that and then not make it and make your winnings after that when the whole reason You did it was for the winnings That's not saying you don't enjoy the game But to be honest it was a cash prize you weren't going there not to win that cash prize, right? You could get the best players together in the world if you wanted to play in your house That's all you care about. Well, and this has got to be grounds for major league legal action I mean, seriously, you have false advertising out the wazoo I mean there has to be there has to be a lawsuit the question is can the players afford to do the lawsuit Yeah, also it is it in depending on the contract though, too Yeah, is there something in the contract that the player sign that says, you know Only get prized after bills are paid or something. Yeah, I don't know and seeing as we don't know enough This is just right come out of audit and either way you got to feel bad for the players Oh for sure And as I said this kind of brings up to me at least a larger a larger conversation point with Nintendo because you have this You have them even pushing a Splatoon 2, right? They they have several times referenced with 2 and 2 as a competitive multiplayer game That should have serious players. They just did it at E3 for crying out loud They had the best teams that had a qualifier around the world and they were just playing for some recognition They didn't even get free copies of the game Wow, so like that you won't the Nintendo's done this like I understand it of arms that it was smashed I get it this you come in E3 you're coming to get recognition You're coming to be in front of millions of people because you literally are being streamed a million of the people Out there and you know whatever Nintendo probably pays for their travel costs and everything, so okay Sure, we don't know that but Nintendo I'm sure is pony and up for because they're they're inviting you to come out to E3 for a spectacle that they're gonna make money off of So I'm sure Nintendo is paying for the same point time really you can't just give them a copy of the damn game It's it's it's not for them. It's probably about how about a digital code? The digital code exactly But it brings up a larger point I think where Nintendo is a multi-billion dollar company They have hundreds of millions of dollars or billions of dollars actually just sitting in a bank And I know they have those reserves for a reason when they have slumps when they want to make big acquisitions I get it. I understand why you know, like it's yeah, it's actually good to bank up a lot of money That's why Nintendo. I know that Sony might have more assets or whatever, but Nintendo themselves is actually way more liquid Then Sony is because Nintendo all these years is banked up so much money Like they built a whole brand new headquarters and they still use the old headquarters They didn't just get rid of that building. They're still using it just for a different purpose You know, it's not like Sony we're like if they make a new building they close three more You know, they lay off 5,000 employees because you know, Sony's had issues with some of their some of their products and You look at Nintendo having all this money Would it kill them once a year to throw a million dollars as a as a grand prize in one of these tournaments? or a hundred thousand No, I know I mean, you know basically just support the community financially somehow Tell your professional players who you are encouraging to exist, right? That let them know that you appreciate what it takes to be at that level what it takes to be a hungry box Yeah, actually pay them for their their advertisement because this is kind of in a way free free advertisement for them because It is they're not paying for anything of it and it's getting Well, that's why the game. Well, that's why a lot of people think I'm gonna push smash for so hard into that competitive community Because it's the latest Smash Bros. Game. So of course, they want to increase sales on it Not just have people keep playing melee from the GameCube era. They want the new game to get pub It I don't know. I think Nintendo I Mean, I don't even from Nintendo's listening anymore I don't have that big platform itself in the former where I knew they were listening because I told me they were listening But I guys need to open your wallets to the professional gaming community If you want to be serious about your games being included like you keep saying you want to be a smash You're saying you want to have most between two you're probably gonna say it with the future games You make maybe you maybe you think arms should be one of those then pony up You pony up the community is gonna be there you want a serious arms You want arms at Evo next year pony up the prize money? Mm-hmm, and it'll be there guaranteed Evo have no problem including because then you're really a sponsor And you will have professional level players who over the next year hone their skills And it's funny because they're honing their skills for a chance at a prize You know I get paid along the way unless they have a sponsor so Like Nintendo we're not asking you to pay these guys's wages We're saying offer some prize money at some of these tournaments. You can afford to do it It's not gonna hurt your bottom line and it's gonna make headlines Positive headlines for you. Oh Nintendo at four tournaments a year pulls up a hundred ponies up a hundred thousand dollars for the top three players in You know the smash it's between and whatever so you pony up four hundred five hundred thousand dollars for three Tournaments a year one point five million you're gonna have headlines every single time That's gonna make people be like holy crap Nintendo believes in this one Maybe I should become a professional to play well Even if they don't go with all the tournaments that are out there established tournaments Yeah, they could have their own Nintendo focused eSports sort of channel like how they have a giant Pokemon event every year They could focus on the card game and the video games, you know, yeah, they could do that with They put poking tournament in there Championships that actually has legit prize stuff behind it not what they did at E3 like legit Championships where you're going to get that you're going to get the best players to show up because you are offering something that they care about Because a lot of these parents like it doesn't matter how often I get on TV if I don't make any of the money from the TV Well, they did have one interesting idea from that sort of reboot of the Nintendo World Championship Which was what you played a special challenge round out of NES remix on 3ds And they got the people with the best ranks out of that Yeah, that's a great idea to get a tournament together and put more of that in your games. Yeah, no, I agree I think I feel bad for these players I know professional gaming is always a controversial thing and a lot of professional gamers do live streams and stuff So they make money on twitch and everything Because a lot of people want to show up to see okay What's a pro really play like like how awesome are they but a lot of those games are like legal legends and and other games that are built for PC a melee obviously doesn't have a glowing online streaming smash community And online for Smash Bros. 4 is not unplayable at a professional level So you're not gonna see professional level smash for players generally streaming Making revenue that way as they're as they're practicing But you will see like professional legal legend players professional her stone players Professional players of these games will have streaming channels and for those players I don't necessarily feel as bad because they do have the ability to make it Incomplain the game at a professional level because that's why people are watching them Whereas these players for Nintendo also have some tune to now Which I don't know how well the online service works for professional level play because now we just found out that it's between two In terms of how often it's transmitting data now does it 30% slower than the original Splatoon did in online matches So I don't know if that perfect if that's really affecting professional players at all. I'm sure it is You know Again, I can't verify any of this because I don't I don't play at that level and have the tech to Examine this but you know apparently it's not an issue in local play Which obviously that's what most professional tournaments would be it is a local player Right, but yeah, it's It's something I just hope Nintendo Wakes up one day and decides they want to care about because that's all it has to be it's not they can't afford it It would be a blip on their financial report, right? And the thing is too is let's look at it this way How terrible is the publicity for Nintendo even though they're not involved? This looks so bad even on Nintendo just because their name is associated with the game That's not I Mean this this made headlines because of smash right. Yes There are other games involved, but notice that it was smashed that made it make headlines And you just said CS go is one of the CS go is infinitely more popular, right? I didn't mean I didn't see I didn't see a An article on that a couple I know but what the articles obviously the articles bring to my attention This is on compete this is on kataku all of them meeting with smash smash smash smash And it's like that's because smash is a big deal But like I was saying if Nintendo would just pony up and and actually support this you wouldn't have this Yeah, here's the thing. We're talking about 100,000 dollars like those crazy numbers. Yeah, this was $15,000 spread over six games Okay, so you tell me Nintendo could to thrown in a few thousand to support the through smash games Right cuz it we're not looking at the super high pride like I was getting a little crazy with my numbers a little bit But I mean just supporting these tournaments in a little way and not every single tournament and obviously not tournaments I have someone like low lex involved which has a bad reputation And obviously any tournament they submit financials to you better know that Nintendo is watching like a Hawkeye to make sure that money goes Oh, yeah supposed to yeah because Nintendo doesn't want to battle it Oh, we we gave money to an event for prizes and the players didn't get the money Nintendo is gonna come out for you then Never gonna exist again. They're gonna rate you with their lawyers from right great, and it's just to me It's just terrible publicity for them even though they're not involved It's it's not that Nintendo is guilty. Nintendo is not at fault for this, but it's it's more so By association. They're getting I mean how does it get blamed, but it brings to light Think about this think about what this topic became it went from here's this terrible company that did a terrible thing With a known person that everyone knew is terrible with money, and they didn't foresee the issues with this ahead of time like they should have or maybe they didn't thought they addressed it, but they obviously clearly didn't and It's turned into a conversation about how Nintendo needs to do more and it's not because we blame Nintendo for what happened here but it highlights the fact that Competitive gaming doesn't have a lot of money in these prizes And it wouldn't be hard for Nintendo to be like a capcom and give money to some of these tournaments Specifically for the prizes and even if not for the prizes say say the prize money is gonna still be based on ticket sales So there's not like oh like Smash Bros. Has a $50,000 grand prize while Street Fighter 5 has you know $1,000 grand prize because you don't want to skew, you know the gamers Maybe but even if it's like look Nintendo won't give you money directly for the prizes They'll let you base that off of the ticket sales But Nintendo will provide money to help pay for the event to happen And that frees up more of that money for prizes and they can spread that out And that would even show support for Nintendo for the whole community now I think Nintendo would probably go an individual game basis personally, but it's it's Nintendo It it's I feel bad for these gamers, but I feel like this is just another opportunity to put Nintendo In front of us and say hey you should start supporting the community you keep saying you like you are for years They shunned it fine. Don't give any money. You don't think smash should be a competitive game Well, blah blah blah now you're openly throw now you're openly putting Splatoon 2 In a fake evil setting during an ad I'm sorry if you wanted to be there pony up great pony up and people will show up You are putting competitive arms and competitive Splatoon 2 in front of your audience at E3 both in person and and you're seeing the crowd reactions to it You see how popular this is Pony up start supporting that professional community Anyways, that's just kind of my rant for that. I just think Nintendo needs to while this isn't Nintendo's fault Nintendo needs to start stepping up and helping these These organizations or these players be able to do this at a professional level by showing that they care And I think when hungry box took that stance That's all he was asking for Nintendo It could be as little as $50,000 a year Nintendo gives to various tournaments Whatever whatever is it shows that Nintendo is serious about supporting their communities instead of doing this pseudo We're gonna act like we care about the communities, but when it comes to giving money Yeah, we don't we don't care We want you to play professionally and have your own full-time job on top of that great You know, we want you to support your family, but also become a professional player at the same time Yeah, yeah now to me it seems like maybe they just don't realize the financial potential of it I they maybe don't see how much Growing and how it could be great for them to jump on board with that Sponsorships alone if Nintendo would just do their own worldwide Nintendo World championships tournament every year and They offered cash prizes, which would already draw huge numbers of professional players to these games And they could even partner up they could have Ultra Street Fighter 2 in this tournament because it's on switch They could have third-party game They won't even attract their party games because they're gonna want to get their games in front of the Nintendo World audience and Nintendo streaming this on all of their channels and Getting you know you get nico in there You you know you get all these accessory makers sponsoring paying Nintendo money to have their products featured during the stream Yeah, like Nintendo can actually make money make more money all sponsorships And they pay out to have this tournament happen and make players happy Nintendo makes money draws huge attention And I know it's it's a big event to organize you can't tell me Nintendo can organize big events They do it all the time not to the maybe not to this level But come on if they could do this back in the day with Nintendo World championships They can do it today and not just as a little the last time they didn't turn a world championships felt more like a Glorified version of it. It wasn't a true Nintendo World championships. It didn't have the flavor They didn't have they didn't have all the glamour with it They can do that now they can offer money they can pony up get sponsors They could talk to people you know people that do all these big live streams like evil figure it all out Nintendo can do it. They have the ability to have they have to have the desire to do it because this is another chance for Nintendo to make money while making the community happy And increasing and we just talked about our last topic about Nintendo You know has this kid-friendly thing. Well offering prize money running a professional grade tournament live to millions of people They could even strike a TV. I guarantee you after one year. There's gonna be a TV company Oh, yeah, ESPN or Disney a public dude. Can we be your exclusive TV writer for this right? You know what kind of contract that's gonna be right won't be NFL NBA kind of contract But you know Disney would gladly probably give them, you know, 50 million dollars to be the ex-executive Tournament with millions of viewers and guess what flicks probably hosted at Disney World They could partner with YouTube even streaming I just remember because they have the universal parks that maybe Disney doesn't want conflicts with Universal right Maybe a universal partner You could Like Nintendo is like Nintendo. We're giving you the ideas You need to take this and and the thing is to is that if you can draw the other the other games in to with this I Mean you could have I mean just crazy amounts of sponsors because if you limited to you get to sponsor one game Well, guess what for that one game? Well, they get all the chairs or they get all the headsets They get all this they get all that they guess what the next game or the next yeah, the next game They're gonna have completely new ones. Yeah, and think about this This is nothing to think about because this happens already with like evil and stuff Because this would be Nintendo only there's another way everyone else that for these games makes money Every game that shows up on the floor while the tournaments are going on Is 20% off on the e-shop? Yeah for all viewers Yeah, because that already happens with steam with it with a coat a lot of like legal like a lot of games that could competitive on steam There's discounts when all these events are going on Nintendo which is a thing where if you're streaming a game and somebody buys it while watching your stream you get a cut Yeah, and that's the thing like there's a there's a you know Nintendo can increase sales can increase awareness that I mean this is this is something that will be uniquely Nintendo because they Already have between arms smash Splatoon that they have three games right there. They can use the headline competitive Polka tournament as well if you want to throw polka tournament in there I'm sure they can come up with other games, too. They could probably get Street Fighter in there I can guarantee you think Mario Kart Mario Kart 2 you can I see I mean sir Can you imagine serious Mario Kart? I mean they could have even two different versions with items and without items. Yeah, I'm thinking no items 200 cc is the pro level probably probably probably but It's just there's so amazing that they have this potential They have enough of these games now with the introduction of Splatoon now arms They can do this all on their own and everyone else would be jealous and wanted And Nintendo could literally start to own the fighting game community just off one event a year Because of the amount of attention it draws the amount of sponsorship deals There's gonna you know think about I thought about before how some teams get sponsorships You don't think they're gonna want to sponsor a team that's gonna be in front of multiple millions of people Guaranteed at Universal Parks Yeah Yeah in front of you know crowds of crowds of potentially millions that are there for that event or they're just as Tourist and are like what's going on? Why is this whole Nintendo section quartered off for for this big event? What's going on? We have to check that out. So Nintendo's gonna sell more merch in there They're gonna have game sales like it is crazy Nintendo We're giving you these ideas the thing is these ideas have happened in the past with the fighting game community Yeah, just never even collectively put in the one spot and now Nintendo's kind of set up to do it. Yeah, especially now I mean when you brought up Universal, it's like, yeah, dude They literally own entire sections of the Universal Park. Yeah, why the hell they are perfectly set up to do this They're holy crud. Why would they not? anyways At least to me this feels like a Time for us to be talking about that instead of focusing on the negative beast and everything not Not being able to pay these players who rely on this money It's a perfect time to be like look There's a better way that this all could be done and Nintendo has the ability to do it So Nintendo do it. In fact, I'm gonna go on my Nintendo switch online app right after this and feedback. I Want you to watch the world championship watch this here's a high cast with all the ideas I do the one content, but he technically works at their PR company Okay, pass the son someone make sure someone it doesn't have to be ready. Just make sure someone sees it Yeah, you'll watch it yourself if you think it's a good idea. We'll take a spoke up though By the way, yeah, we're trademarking this idea this is so yeah, even though we have no rights to any of this stuff All right, great, and you could literally shut down our channel for having Nintendo in it I'm trademarking this idea. I want I want to trade marking Of any revenue off of this in the real championship event and I own no rights to great anyways Seriously, I think that's probably been our best conversation. We've had so far in this podcast. Yeah, because it's so It's right there for the tennis. It is so ripe So the last thing I want to talk about is actually inspired by another youtuber Arlo our good friend Arlo the talking blue puppet He's on a nice channel if you haven't heard of him I'll put a link down to his videos since this topic's complete completely inspired by him we're talking about a little Zelda quick here for our final topic of the day and specifically we're talking about How would you make console Zelda games? release at a faster rate Because it's all the games in general really saltine, but right there's been a trend of the last two games It took five years and only twice has it taken less time And that was with Majora's Mask and the Wind Waker all other games have had well I guess private princess technically but I'm thinking how many consoles have more than one like Zelda 1 Zelda 2 and then the space between Zelda 2 and a link to the Past was huge the gap between a link to the past opening of time was huge And then Majora's Mask the Wind Waker and Twilight Princess all came up pretty quick And then Twilight Princess the Skyward Sword was huge Skyward Sword and Rath the Wild was huge. So It's I guess it's almost been 50 50 But a lot of the it's been almost it's been almost two decades since then that came out that quickly Because of how long it's been taking for the recent games. So I'm gonna pose this question first to 5j. So how would you fix? The rate of release of console Zelda games to come out faster Well, I mean obviously One of the ways that they can do that is going with another company to help develop like when they made When they had Capcom make Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons on Game Boy Color some amazing top-down Zelda games excellent and Then of course when they're combining their portable and console divisions together Hey, now we get all the 3ds mainline Zelda games in addition to all the 3d mainline Zelda games all in the same platform So those are gonna help I'd also say that I'd like to see more Things that were like Majora's Mask where it took the engine and everything of Ocarina of Time and They even reused a lot of it, you know characters and everything they gave them new names and pretended that they weren't the Exact same models from the previous game And they made something amazing out of it And they took longer than they intended to to make it which is fine But they made it something awesome. It was like a real sequel which we don't see a lot of in The Zelda series and I think going for that kind of approach of making more sequels and Reusing an engine instead of reinventing the art style every time these are all things that would help a lot Yeah, the ideas are yeah, and I'm gonna kind of follow on those same lines where I don't as much as I don't know if I would like it it would almost be more of a Thing that could get things out quick more quickly to be a like an actual DLC Okay, so where you know you have your world build and then you have a new concept that just gets introduced into this world You know so you don't have to spend the time building your world You don't have to spend your time doing this doing that you build your concept and you introduce it into that world As much as I as much as I'm not a big fan of DLC Mm-hmm, it seems like that could get out a heck of luck quicker than actually full full games. I'm into this if it's We grow up with PC games and expansion packs and if it's of A certain expansion pack level like I feel like we don't know what level the story DLC is gonna be it We don't you know we've heard one dungeon. We've heard, you know New story about Zelda and the champions and stuff. That's great. That's fine. That all sounds cool. They're probably some more shrines, but We don't know how much more content are we talking two hours? Are we talking six? Are we talking ten? Are we talking another hundred hours, right? Considering the four dungeons of Breath of the Wild is it literally 25 percent more game? Yeah, so we don't know we don't know what this entails yet to know if it's of that level But for DLC after that it's it almost would have to top whatever that is anyways It couldn't be another to another type of master mode and it would have to be something significant And we've seen in Breath of the Wild There's technically room because if you go to the edge of the map where the river is you there's land Beyond that that they easily I mean I don't know how easy it is for them But they could add that land into the game and then have you know more you know a whole new area to play it And maybe they're gonna do that in this DLC. We don't know but It's interesting to me That you bring that up because I was torn on this because on one hand. I want a Majora's Mask again And Majora's Mask I don't think it happens if they were just building onto the world of Ocarina of Time But at the same time we're in we're in a new era of gaming where DLC is very common And if you're going to use the same engine and you're going to build a world that a world and a story and a game That takes place at like immediately after Breath of the Wild It almost does make more sense as DLC But then again, I keep thinking back to Majora's Mask Well, I know but but but I don't do it Majora's Mask does not view it as DLC at all, right? Because whole new world Alternate dimension. Yes, you could do that as DLC. Obviously like World of Warcraft does that kind of DLC all the time But it's still one of those things that it holds itself so well because it's such a self-contained game It's not it's built with Ocarina of Time in mind But it's not built around the concepts of Ocarina of Time, right? It is so original and if that's just built onto the world that you're still booting up Ocarina of Time to get to all This then you're not living in that world per se It's just a side dish to the main course versus being its own course on its own And so I was torn on this because I was gonna bring up the DLC concept for a while I was gonna be like well We're living in an era where maybe we don't need the games to come out faster anymore because now we can just release more substantial DLC But the more the more I think about it, I would rather have another Majora's Mask than DLC I'd rather have another Spirit Tracks. The concept that they introduced is radically different from any other Zelda game Yeah, like like I'll give it a go. I hated Phantom Hourglass, but I love Spirit Tracks same art style same engine Completely love one game completely hate the other and I don't hate Breath of the Wilds Like imagine how they could perfect what's already there in a new game concept in a new land Away from where Hyrule is right now with a new enemy And using the limitations of a shorter dev period to introduce like Arlo brought this up himself One of the reason that made Majora's Mask so special is that it was a new land that wasn't Hyrule which was had like never happened before and Because of the short dev time and not being Hyrule they couldn't use Ganon So they had to come up with their own unique concept and that's where the time stuff came from in Majora's Mask and the story about the You know Skull Kid and the Four Giants and how touching how deep that is and Zelda's never been known as having like this big touching deep story It's always been kind of the same kind of tale retold in a different way Even when the enemy isn't Ganon It's still someone trying to revive him or someone related to him in some way or like in Spirit Trek's Maladis I know he's his own character. I'm sorry. He literally looks like Ganon. So He's pretty much Ganon-like, I guess I was gonna say earlier that you know when they reintroduced players or characters They would have been hilarious if the first time you interacted with them they all had Mario mustaches on it I'm not the same character quote unquote. Oh my gosh. No, that means the words the cap Mario took over the character So I'm I am torn because I love DLC when it's done right, right? And I don't know that it's been done right in Breath of the Wild yet because I firmly believe master mode should not have been locked behind a paywall I feel like even if it wasn't done at launch it should have been free update because it's a difficulty setting I don't feel like players should have to pay money for difficulty setting right and it's the one reason I did not like the double-damage with Ganon. It's the only amiibo that did something Besides well, I guess Wolf Link and Link giving Wolf Link adding Wolf Link to the game giving players an advantage and Epona But the double-damage one really bothered me because here you're actively saying we can make our game harder It's already there, but you need an amiibo to unlock that hard vote So you not only to the to put this in perspective to get the hardest possible mode in Breath of the Wild You need to buy the Ganondorf amiibo and you need to spend $20 on a twin pack of DLC That's how you get the hardest mode possible to play in Breath of the Wild Although Zelda players already have their own They've been playing for years You know don't expand your heart containers and in Breath of the Wild don't upgrade your armor. Don't do any cooking. Yeah, good luck Yeah That's all self-created within the systems of a game right then ten you could do that Okay, but now do that with master mode and double damage with the Ganondorf amiibo That was all done with what was given to you. It's not What didn't need anything added to it to make that difficulty appear Yeah, and that's that I've never agreed with that So it all depends on how they approach a DLC thing because I would be okay if it's done in the right way But I still keep them bad demand. I want to see them Do a more another Majora's Mask kind of game or another Spirit Tracks. I would like to see Nintendo for once though what we have to realize is why the game is why do these games generally take five years between them vastly different art styles New engines being built around the game new platforms always coming out mid Yeah, they spent like three years perfecting the physics in Breath of the Wild It's like, okay, so if you spent all that time doing it then why only is it one game? Yep, why don't you bring that to another game heck? They could do a new art style keep the same engine Right, you know just tweak it a little bit make it look a little bit different have it be its own flavor But it uses the same mechanics the same engine There's nothing wrong with that or use the same art style a general do DLC or have a breath of the wild To have a game that tells a story, you know, you know a breath of the wild is ripe for right? It's ripe for a prequel. Yeah That events that happened a hundred years ago. You can literally build a game around it It doesn't have to be DLC you it can be you know, 20 $40 DLC if they want or it can be a $60 brand new game and Like it's it's actually unique gaming that it set up for a prequel You could argue that Ocarina of Time kind of was too with the war But at the time no one expected Nintendo time to go visit a war in the game But yeah, it's I I feel like fixing Zelda is multifaceted If Nintendo truly believes in DLC, which it seems like they do then they don't think they need to increase the time or decrease the Time of game creation. There's need to increase the production of DLC and Nintendo's entering an interesting era where there's really only how they tried to appease fans between Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword or more specifically between Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild was the remasters, right? They remastered their old game. So they only have so many of those how many got remastered in between Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild coming out. I mean how many more years are remasters can they do you can argue three? You can argue Skyward Sword HD, especially since Switch has motion controls, so now that back to be done You can argue that they can also bring Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask into HD Which would be their second remasterings, but it would be an HD version otherwise after that You're just talking about a combo pack port of Twilight Princess and the Wind Waker. Breath of the Wild, extra 4K, 4K, 4K, extra high weight, 4K res pack, a system that can't do 4K. No, I mean with extra optimization, maybe they could get it up to 1080p, but won't you just release that as a patch? Yeah, anyways. I was just throwing something out there to be facetious. I view it in that light where Nintendo needs to stop creating something masterable and throwing it away Because they do that a lot They created a masterpiece with Breath of the Wild. Absolutely master. Is it perfect in every way? No, but it's a master. I don't know many people who have played the game that will say it's not a masterpiece. And if you have a masterpiece, you don't just throw all your work away. You build off of that masterpiece. You do a Majora's Mask like that with Ocarina of Time. I'm surprised they didn't build the game off of Twilight Princess after how well that sold. Well, but Ocarina of Time was the last time that it was like pretty well unanimous everywhere. This is a masterpiece. Sure, sure. I mean Twilight Princess had more hype going in the launch, but Twilight Princess was very good with the hype train. No, Twilight Princess is a great game. Absolutely, but it wasn't universally lauded as a masterpiece across critics and fans alike. I'll leave it alone. I'll let you have that one. Right, it's a great game. No, we're not arguing the merits of the game, but I remember back then it kind of... There's this thing called the Zelda Cycle. I don't fully believe it. Yes. I don't either. I don't fully believe it's really a thing. I just think the cycle exists, but it doesn't exist in the way that it's portrayed where people are changing their opinions all the time. It exists in it where everyone who loves the game plays it, loves it, says they love it, and then they're done. They have no reason to keep talking it and praising it, and then that's when the people who don't like it see an avenue to start complaining. Because now their voices can be heard. So the vocal minority, so it always feels like people love the game and they hate it and they love the prior game. People generally either like the game or hate the game in a way that their opinions didn't change. So the Zelda Cycle is just about the cycle of consumerism, I guess. Fixing Zelda is, again, a matter of Nintendo changing how they choose to develop Zelda games. I think that every main game, and this is something Arlo brought up, is that every main Zelda game should have a follow-up game. Using the same engine and the same assets, while at the same time, in the background, they are already working on the engine for the next generation of Zelda games. Now they should be able to do that with combining the portable and home console aspect of the company. And if you think about three years of development on this, they could have, say, half of their Zelda team working on that new engine for that new Zelda game that might not even be here until Switch 2 or whatever is next. And then you have the other hundred people with the engine already built, the art assets already created, building a game within that. And you could end up, in that team, obviously once that game is released, transfers all over to the other game that's already in development. And suddenly that team, that by now, three years in, has just finished the engine, now has the extra hundred people, plus the help from Monolith, to get the other game out within a two or three-year window. So that game might have actually been in development for six years, but as a consumer, it only looks like a three-year gap. So it might actually take you even longer to make that next generation, but because there was a game in between, how to remaster a true new game, consumers are suddenly really, really happy. And with how much high breath of the wild has, why would you not take advantage of that right now? I think because it is a launch game, there will absolutely be another Switch Zelda main console game. I mean, we saw that with Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword. We can only hope. After what happened with Wrath of the Wild, I am not, I don't feel as confident that Nintendo is going to do what we hope they're going to do, either with a really, really, really huge DLC pack for 40 bucks or something, or with a brand new game. I am not confident because they need to earn after, we just came off a generation of hardware where there was no exclusives of the game. First time it's ever happened. Wii U did not have its own exclusive game because it also released on Switch at the same time. And yes, we're not talking about games being imported, that happens, but that game still represents that. Even today, after New Time 3D, that game is still thought of as an N64 game. What is Switch? Is it a Wii U game? Or is it a Switch game, or is it a Wii U game? It's being viewed as a Switch game, but it spent most of its development on Wii U. But it released at the same time, Switch's little more versions, same with Twilight Princess. Is it a Wii game, or is it a GameCube game? Now, I personally know it's a GameCube game. I know Wrath of the Wild is a Wii U game, but publicly, consumerized, it's a Wii game, it's a Switch game. But is it? Because they might also know in the back of their minds, but it also released on this other platform at the same time. There's this confusion, and that confusion isn't necessarily bad for the sales of a game. But it's bad in the sense of trying to figure out what generation that game belongs to. And what generation of hardware, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. So Switch, Wrath of the Wild is doing fantastic, but, you know, Wii U didn't get its own exclusive game to define that generation. But if it takes five, six years for the next Zelda game, and this is why we're talking about this, if it takes five or six years, it's very possible we're already talking about the next generation of Switch. Right. You know, with the next two in it, or we're talking about whatever Nintendo does next after Switch. And that's what the Zelda game, even if it was developed for Switch, it starts getting to the end of the lifespan, and this happened with, I mean, you think of what Skyward Sword, it came out a year before the Wii was done. And by and large, that was a terrible decision. It might have even affected the sales of the game, because it came out at a time when people were getting over the Wii, people were looking forward to the Wii U, and then over-dropping the big Zelda game, you know, right in the middle of everyone not wanting to touch Wii anymore. So in hindsight, it should have been pushed to a Wii U launch game. I mean, maybe, but at the same time, the Wii was, you know, their most popular home console ever, and suddenly they had no games for it, except Zelda, you know. Yeah, but it was like no games for like two years. That whole console, they were leaving all these fans on the hook, and then high and dry with nothing. They had to do something. Yeah, but that something to me isn't really seen one of your highest budgeted, biggest IPs in the middle of a massive game drought. That to me is sending a game out to die. This is like, there was no games for Switch all year, not even Breath of the Wild that launched. The biggest launch game was Sniffer Clips. And we don't get a big game until Mario Odyssey, and no one wants to buy a Switch because there's nothing to play on it. The Mario Odyssey comes out. It would affect Mario Odyssey sales. There wouldn't be as many Switches on the market. There wouldn't be as many people caring. There's like, oh, so Nintendo's got one big game. And then, oh, we've got to wait a whole year for their next big game. And that's what's so great about Switches. It's not like that. It started with Zelda the first years ending with Mario, and in between we're getting Splatoon and Arms and Skyrim and Minecraft. We're getting Resident Evil Revelations now. NBA, they actually have a pretty nice lineup here. And when Skyward Sword came out, man, it was like nothing in 2010. Nothing in 2011. We were begging for ports from Japan in 2011. Oh man, Operation Rainfall brings, you know, wave chronicles to the U.S. Yeah, it's a time period that I feel like was of not a good time to release a game that they spent so much time and money on. Even if, because the thing with Skyward Sword is, it was always supposed to be, at least it was kind of hyped up by fans to be, the game that proved motion controls can be put into a serious game. But the problem was by the time it came out, everyone was done with me. The time to prove that concept had passed. Yep, like the Wii U, they never really got around to fully proving that system out either. And that's what they've done right with the Switch is right away they said, here's everything it does well and every game from now on takes advantage of every aspect of it. What's interesting with the Switch and Wii U is, the Wii U was largely an idea of Iwata, Miyamoto, etc. Nintendo's Old Guard. And while we don't know this officially, we can almost tell by how the games acted, like how they performed, how they took advantage or didn't take advantage of the gamepad, that there was a disconnect between what the high-up execs thought was a great idea and what the developers actually wanted to make. Because so many of the ideas, oh yeah, we threw a mini-map on there. Okay, everyone knew that. And there's tangible evidence in the case of the gamepad, that's not as good as the DS or the 3DS, because you do have to completely take your eyes off the TV to see the map. And if you have to do that in the first place, then what's the order between that and an overlay? There isn't a difference because either way you take your eyeballs off the game. The only game that really took advantage of it was ZombieU. I know some people will bring up some other examples, but to me ZombieU is the epitome of some of the potential it had. I also think it had high potential for asynchronous gaming that Nintendo advertised at the beginning of Nintendo Land, but never took advantage of. So there was a big disconnect with Switch. Miyamoto was not involved with the development. Iwata was, but you see when it was first being conceptualized. And by and large it's been reported that it was Nintendo's younger team that came up with the concept, came up with the ideas behind it. And those younger people are also the ones that are starting to get bigger leadership roles inside Nintendo. They're the ones that came up with ARMS. They're the ones that came up with Spatune. Games that have been critically successful. And I mean, I don't know how you could expect otherwise, ARMS is made by the Mario Kart team. The Mario Kart team is excellent. It's not like the whatever team they have on Mario Party and Mario Tennis that just spits out crap. We're talking about a team that is like the epitome of excellence at Nintendo. And actually this was something that I talked about on my stream recently that one day we're going to lose Shigeru Miyamoto. I mean, he's going to retire. He's not going to be involved anymore. And people always bring up, oh, I don't want another mother game because Itoi says he's not going to make one. And if he's not making it, then it can't be any good. And that's not true. Because we're looking at Splatoon and we're looking at ARMS. And one day Miyamoto is not going to be there. And that doesn't look good when Miyamoto is gone. He's made a great foundation. People follow his footsteps. New ideas come in that he didn't have. And it's going to be fine. It really is. I think a lot of it, I disagree in the mother aspect just because that game has not been around for so long. That any ideas that young developers have should just be put into a new IP. Whereas like something like Mario. Yeah, but something like Mario and Zelda, like those games have had the time to be passed out. Right? First it was passed, like Zelda was passed from Miyamoto down to Ijeanoma and then he'll eventually pass it on to Fubi Ashi or whoever is next in line at the company coming up in Zelda. And that's like a passing of the torch. Whereas because mother hasn't been around for so long, there hasn't been that you got to be in on the development of these games and understand the core of what makes a mother game a mother game. So at this point you bring in a fresh new developer on it who had, why not even been alive when these games came out? I mean that's what he's talking about. You could have, but he wasn't there at the development level to understand what made it that. But tonally as I'm playing through these games on my stream, there's a huge difference between mother two and three. There is. Totally in everything. The difference between Zelda one and Zelda two. Exactly. So I don't honestly don't see any problem moving forward with mother. It is a huge cult following right now. And I think it's absolutely fine to say somebody else out there can have a good idea for this series and they can make the game and it'll be good. And I hope you are correct. I don't think you are. Because it's almost. You think anybody else can make a good mother game? I don't get this point of view. No, I don't because they would need an order. I think an order for it to happen. They would need a toy heavily involved. No. At least and not at a development level and a feedback and guidance level. Because this is just like someone saying this is just like fans who think I could go in and make a better Zelda game than Nintendo. Even if you can't develop it, you could you argue I have better ideas. But you've never been involved. Experience person with video game development at all though. But it's not exactly the same thing. Yeah, but you're talking about people who have zero experience developing a mother game suddenly being able to make an awesome mother game. Okay. But okay. How about this retro zero experience making a first person Metroid game is amazing. You know what I mean? New ideas. But they also have revitalize. But they also had the founder of Metroid guiding them while they were making it. That wasn't just retro do whatever you want. That was the people behind Metroid. Lordy know like the development of Metroid Prime had severe overlap with Nintendo of Japan. They were constantly Hawkeye. Thomas Hap with his his Metroid like game. I forget Axiom Verge. Everyone seems to love Axiom Verge one dude all in his own. Yeah, but it's not Metroid. You know, but it could have been easily been a Metroid game. You could say that, but is it not better off as its own thing without the restrictions of the Metroid franchise? Why would there have to be restrictions? Fresh ideas. You know what I mean? Well, because you're building within the universe of the game. Unless you want to reboot the whole series. New part of the universe. I don't know. I think Axiom Verge is just a fantastic game. Things in a totally different direction too. And that was supposedly four. I'd love to see where five would go based off of where Fusion started. Sure. You know what I mean? Yeah, this is just where we're at a crossroads because I think if you're going to have all these brand new ideas coming in, Nintendo actually falls into this trap a lot. They force their new ideas onto IP when they could easily be put into a new game. I mean, Splatoon originally had Mario shooting the paint. It was going to be a Mario shooting game. And Nintendo or someone finally made this. There's no take Mario like actually make it a new thing. And that was like finally someone removed the handcuffs off the developers having to tie these new ideas to IP. If you have all these fresh ideas for mother, just make a new IP with it. Axiom Verge is fantastic on its own. It doesn't need to be Metroid. It can stand out on its own. You have to build a new fan base. So we're talking about Nintendo. They just did it with Splatoon and Arms. If it's similar or not, I don't think it'd be that hard to do. You know how many people thought Arms was just a punch out and rip off? No. It's not. It's completely its own thing. I still see why it couldn't be a mother game though. Honestly. Because I feel like when you are... Look at all the franchises that have had long, huge breaks from when a game released to when a new game in that IP comes out and that made with a completely new team with none of the original members involved in it. Often times the game falls on its face. And what's the big criticism about Kid Icarus Uprising? It doesn't feel like a Kid Icarus game. It feels like they forced... The biggest criticism of it is it feels like they forced Kid Icarus into a game that is not Kid Icarus. Well, there was a 25-year gap that gameplay changed a little bit in that amount of time. Well, you talked about Kid Icarus was a platformer and this was no longer a platformer. This was more like Fantasy Star than a Kid Icarus game. Fantasy Star. Yeah, go play some Fantasy Star. There's also a... Which Fantasy Star did you talk about? Like Fantasy Star Online? Because I'm thinking Fantasy Star 1 through 4 and it doesn't remind me that at all. No, no. Fantasy Star Online. And then also that other game they released on Wii. What was it? First time they had released a game for it in a while. I'm trying to remember. Where you had to point the thing at the screen and shoot things. Fantasy Star? Like Light Gun Gallery game? No, no, no, no, no. It's not a Fantasy Star game. I'm really drawn to blank. It's such a great game that no one played. Literally no one played but it's so fantastic. I can't remember now. I'm not gonna have to look it up after the podcast. Maybe I'll let the editor know so he can flash it on the screen quick when I'm talking about it. But to me, the Kid Icarus game felt a lot like whatever game that is. And Kid Icarus Operating, I love that game. Love, love, love that game. But the whole time I play in it, I'm like, this isn't Kid Icarus. And that's, I think, what you run into with the series. But that's what happens when you run into a series that has such a cult following. They expect a certain thing. If you give them something that's not that, that cult following is a plane, that game. I don't know. Like if they just made like Nintendo Kart and it was new characters and it wasn't Mario and that, you know what I mean? If it was Nintendo Golf and it wasn't Mario, you know, I don't know that it necessarily has a huge impact one way or the other. If it was more of a success without Mario in it or more of a success with Mario in it. You know what I mean? Like it, I think it's okay, but I don't know if we'll ever actually see it happening on the other side. We need Mother 3 to come to the West before we can even talk about a Mother 4 anyways. I'm feeling it though. Reggie's comments leave me hopeful. He's been making teasies like this for like 20 years. No, no, no, this year, I know he had a very specific comment this year. Hey, if you don't hear anything by the end of the year, talk. Yeah, I have a feeling it was something they were, I was surprised that they didn't do something like put it on NES or SNES Classic. I was very surprised. They put Earthbound on there? I know, I was surprised they didn't do Mother 3 because that would have just like Star Fox 2 would have like everyone would have bought it. Yeah, but it was a GBA games. It didn't quite fit the theme. Well, they could make it work. Or maybe... You're right, they could. They could do anything. They're Nintendo. They could do anything. SNES Classic. Play Game Boys on your SNES. Hello. The Game Boy Advance. Super Game Boy. Super Game Boy, yeah. Game Boy Advance games, just Game Boy. Yeah, they just have a Super... Game Boy Color. Yeah, Game Boy. Instead of releasing like a Game Boy Color or whatever classic, they can just have the Super Game Boy. Exactly. They can have a Game Boy Classic work. It plays all three generations. You're right. What do you mean how would a Game Boy Classic work? You know how hard it would be to release a smaller, slimmer, sleeker version of the original Game Boy and just pack it on a whole bunch of games on it? I'm thinking like the GBA style form factor. Yeah, but it doesn't come with games. Basically a tiny switch that only plays retro games. Yeah. But anyways, obviously we're just going to have to agree to disagree. And again, like my evidence for that is, look what happened with Arms and Splatoon. I think infinitely better than making Arms into another Puncho game or making Splatoon into another Mario Spinoff game. And I realized maybe it would have sold more if it was a Mario Spinoff game. I don't know. Mario Kart obviously sold more. Mario Party sold more at the time. But I think we can agree that Splatoon 2 is fantastic. Splatoon is a fantastic IP. Arms at least feels fantastic. Whether or not that becomes a franchise, we don't know yet because it's just been the first game. But what we know is that at least what we've seen is that when Nintendo is letting their new talent do things, they don't, like instead of putting the handcuffs of an established IP, let them do what they want. Now if they want, the young generation wants to make a mother for, then I'm with you. Right. But I think if they... I just don't, I don't want to think that Nintendo is saying you can't do it, you know. I'd like to think if somebody at Nintendo said, I have a great idea for mother for, and I really think that it's going to fit tonally perfectly well. I would love to think that somebody at Nintendo says, tell me about it. Let's see if I, if you can convince me instead of saying, no, hands off, don't touch. I think that Nintendo is just going to say, no, hands off, don't touch. Nintendo is going to say, no, hands off, don't touch. Because I bet you there, I bet you they won't be willing to do it unless Itoi signs off on it. And I don't think Itoi is going to sign off on it. The only reason why I definitely agree with that point is because it is so much his child. His name is literally on the front of every cart that is a mother game. It is like his... Which isn't even true of Mario, right? It's not like Mario. A Shigeru Miyamoto game. That's the only reason I would agree with you. It is so much. I mean, Nintendo can do it without his permission, but I think they respect him too much to let one get made unless he approves it. And here's the thing, if he approves it, you think he's going to do it without being involved. There's no way. For a series that he, you just admitted, is so tied to his name. And in that case, yeah, Mother 4 could get made. But it's because he wants it to get made. And right now, he keeps saying he doesn't want it to be made. And as long as he has that stance, I don't think it's going to happen. You have my blessing, yes, and I'm hoping for it. Put it in his will. Oh, that's sad. I mean, I'm not saying I don't want Mother 4. I would say I want Mother 3 in English officially first. Totally. But yeah, it's... I like what Nintendo is doing now. And while I love Nintendo's old generation, I want another F-Zero game. I want so many of these old games to come back. At the same time, I really like what Nintendo's new generation developers are doing when Nintendo's like, hey, you don't have to make a Mario game. You don't have to make a Zelda. You can make your own idea, your own game. This is what Nintendo used to be. Pikmin. That was a great example of a new game. Well, Sugar Amiimoto, that was his idea. I know, but it was a new IP. It wasn't like, hey, let's make it a Kirby game, which is a little bit like... Sugar Amiimoto, by the time Pikmin came out, could do anything to us. He wanted to make any kind of game he could. Miyamoto has probably never been restricted by a franchise on his ideas. I mean, Wii Music happened. Come on. They pretty much let Miyamoto do whatever he wants. Star Fox Zero is a more recent example. There can't be a Star Fox game unless we can do something new with it. When all of everybody wanted was more of the same. Actually, I felt Star Fox Guard was much more interesting and looked like a way better game to me. Sure. And I'm excited for Star Fox 2. Yes. I think that Nintendo is doing really good letting their new developers do their own thing, which to me feels like Nintendo growing up. Do you remember when you were a kid? It always felt like there was some new idea, some new IP coming out of Nintendo. Something fresh. Yes, you had your Mario's and your Zelda's and your Metroids, but that wasn't all you got. And then for a while here, it felt like, well, that's all we're getting. Yeah. And now it's back to, well, last gen was soon. This gen's arms is probably going to be even more fresh ideas coming because they literally have stated, they have an entire team dedicated to just making a new IP at this point, which is awesome. And I hope this continues. I mean, I want to be wrong and I want Mother 4 to happen. I don't want people to feel like I don't want Mother 4. Of course I want Mother 4. That's right. You'd have to be like, maybe you just really hate the Mother series. You don't care, but then why would you care if Mother 4 happened? It affects your life. But yeah, it's... You know, you look at the grand scheme of things and I'm really happy with how the Switch is doing with games and I hope, you know, getting back to that Zelda topic that this does lead Nintendo to realize, hey look, for us to keep a steady stream of games going, we can't be taking five years with every Mario, with every, you know, on 3D Mario, every 3D Zelda. You know, we need a Galaxy 2. We need a Majora's Mask. We need games that perfect on the formula and do something new with it in the same franchise, in addition to their new IPs and their new ideas and even the remasters and the re-release of Wii U games. We need Bayonetta 3. We need you to reach up to Platinum and be like, look, you pour Bayonetta 1 and 2 and by the way, we'll pay you for Bayonetta 3 because now we have a platform that's even more popular. Oh hey, and I'll finally get to play a Wonderful 101. Wonderful 101, right? That on Wii U. Yeah. And I'm not someone like, there's a lot of Wii U owners that have been like, oh, why am I wanting to Switch? It's just rehashing games that are already, hey, that's fine, then I'll buy one. Yeah. And I'm like, you are missing out on the fact that there's so many who would want to Switch and never play Wii U. Why should they not be allowed to play these games and Nintendo spent a lot of money on their high quality? Yeah. And for mine, it's not like the Wii U is sold worse than the PS Vita. And it's not like that. So I'll swallow that pill. Well, PS Vita is so well in Japan. So. Yeah, but anywhere else? No. I don't think so. Yeah. I'm trying to think. I'm like, how is it? Bad enough that Sony was like one year in, they were like done. You remember how much, what was the total? We're done with this thing. What was the lifetime total on the Vita? I keep thinking it was like 30 million, but I can't remember. Yeah. I can look it up quick. I'm just actually curious if it, because I think it might have topped the GameCube as well. Oh, yeah, that'd be interesting. The great GameCube and Wii U, obviously, that we're selling home consoles of all time, not counting Virtual Boy. I don't think anyone comes to Virtual Boy, do they? I mean, is it even a home console when you've got to put it on a stand and hold it to your eyeballs with a tripod? It's a portable. Is it really a portable when you need a tripod to play it? It's battery powered. It's portable by their definition. One did just be the precursor to the Oculus or something. I mean, it was supposed to be 3D, you remember? 3D that burns your retina. Right? Oh, man. I'm not seeing any official... You're not seeing the official numbers? I didn't want official numbers. That's how bad it was. Yeah. Well, we only sold 3 million. No, they sold more than 3 million. I know it was really well in Japan. This is, there was an estimate in 2015, December, that there was about 12.5 million units sold. That was two years ago. Maybe they creeped up to 15 or 20. Yeah, exactly. Because I know they had some games in Japan. I remember watching those charts. There were some PSV games that were doing really well in Japan. And they even had Monster Hunter for a little bit. PSP, obviously, that was a huge success. I know it was like, oh, the DS was 150 million. Dude, PSP sold gameboy numbers. Come on, though. Can't say that wasn't successful. Yeah, it sold really well. Like that, 80 million? Come on, come on. It was actually kind of a similarly unfortunate for Sony. The DS was such a huge hit because the PSP was a really big hit as well. Just not next to that megalith. Well, it's just like, oh, we won the generation with 100 million. I'm like, yeah, but it wasn't like it sucked for Sony and Microsoft. They sold 80 million. It's not like, oh my God, they had such a terrible time. You sold faster, but long haul. Kind of all equal out. It's all right. Anyways, I think that's going to do it for this week's Nintendo Prime podcast. As always, you can follow us on social media. Facebook.com slash Nintendo Prime. We'll take you to our Facebook page. At Ninty Prime, N-I-T-Y. That's Twitter. You can follow me on Twitter at Nate Chance. You can follow 5G Gaming on Twitter. What's your Twitter handle again? Yeah, so my Twitter is just at 5J. F-I-V-E-J-A-Y. You can also check me out on YouTube at youtube.com slash 5G Gaming. And on Twitch at twitch.tv slash 5J. And almost every weekend, right here on the YouTube channel, you'll be able to see 5J streaming something. He's already building up himself a little following year. That's cool. I'm glad people like seeing you. I like having you on the podcast. Good times. Yeah. Like, even though we just ended that's good. Yeah. That's what drives conversation. Yeah. Like, see folks, you can have disagreements with people and not hate each other. It's okay. Right. We're not like the example in Ted of Fox News. Do we really agree on this? No. Do we really disagree on this? No. No. We agree on absolutely everything. And as always, I want to thank Eric Moore for being here. He doesn't have any social media following of any kind. Although in that update video I mentioned at the very beginning, I said when I was like, oh, when people think of an internal prime, I want them to think of me. And then I said, well, unless you think Eric is just a sexy beast and then I put a picture up of you. Oh, good God. I should do one with your shirt off when I really want to get the ladies. Oh, God. I didn't go that far. I'm like, this is public. We're trying not to break PCs here. In the good kind of way. Look up now. Because you want the screen to crack so it doesn't see zillions of pictures of you. Right. Right. Break the internet. I'm not trying to get people heart attacks here. Oh, God. I'm crying so hard. My eye is starting to water and itch. I'm having a good time over here. All right, folks. We will maybe see you next week. Maybe not. Go ahead and support us over on patreon.com. Hey, if we hit that $100 goal before next week, there definitely will be one next week. For sure. And if you would like to be in this podcast, our $20 tier is the way to do it. You support it right now. Yeah. Because this releases on Monday. We record on Thursday. So there will be time between Monday and Thursday for me to get you on the podcast for next week, if you would like. So thanks for tuning in. We'll catch you in the next one. Bye. Bye. Peace out. Peace out.