 Yeah, so we're back on the Sports Magnetone 4 this Friday and we are picking up now where we left off with the Thursday show in that exclusive interview with the husband of double double Olympic champion Elaine Thompson-Hera as he continues to explain the reason behind the separation with interim coach Shaniki Osburn. On Thursday he disclosed that Osburn was requesting a compensation package of close to one million US dollars. Let's continue that conversation. Where did the conversation go from there when Ms. Osburn's agent, manager, the mediator Damia Russell requested that figure? Well, I mean at this point when I was just trying to confirm that we were on the same page and I was seeing what I was seeing. So like I said, I asked him if he would know that the 15% did have what figure, he said he knows exactly what he sent. So at that point I was like, I don't think I can have this conversation with you right now because we are night and day apart in terms of getting to an agreement. Then I called Elaine and tried to explain to her what happened. So they were engaged in a phone conversation after that. That is Elaine and Mr. Russell, obviously that didn't go well. And then I texted Ms. Osburn. I called her for, didn't get her, didn't get her until maybe in the evening, maybe a couple hours, not couple, about 10 hours or hours later. And I was explaining to her, I was really coming in there and I was explaining to her that I had my other coach and the person that she puts in charge of negotiating her finances doesn't seem to know much about track and field. And this wouldn't be good for her going forward. But then she started to explain to me why and she trusted him and such and such and so at that point we were still in training. So this was like, by the weekend, it's done there. And then we went to another week of training, almost a week. The third day was our anniversary and we went away from home and came back in the evening and then at training the Friday morning. So before training, I normally go and pick up someone. The guy is close by and an alien would drive by herself. And on my way out, an alien called and said she got a text that was like maybe one at 1 a.m., so obviously wouldn't have seen it until in the morning that she had joined our service because we couldn't come to an agreement and so that was the situation. So I immediately went into a solution more trying to get to the next best option. Yeah, before you get there, Deron, because looking at a story from Sportsmax.tv that came out on Thursday, the headline lies suggesting that, well, Ms. Osborne suggesting that there was still room for negotiation. But you are suggesting here that she slammed the door shut. Is that what you got from that message that came out 1 a.m.? As a coach, if you care any about an athlete, you would understand that the athlete cannot miss days in training, right? You basically said that you are withdrawing your service until. So basically, I don't want to start a system of her in one system. This is a year for her to do something that is unthinkable. And you don't see this in how many lifetimes. This is the first time in forever, ever, right? Only the grade you're saying I've done something like this on the men's side. So to be mentioned to do something for a possibility of doing something like that, I think she has to have the best possible opportunity to do it within the situation. So at this point, if everything, at this point, I am now seeing that everything is really about money. They are not saying it, but it really is about that. Because I explained that we basically cannot put out a figure because that would be a breach. And nobody, no contract, you have a person outside of who was at the table. You show them that that's not in this world of track and field. So we just cannot do that. So basically, we're trying to work around that. They, based on my understanding, see my idea of figure that they were working with and they even brought different information in terms of where they got their information from. And it became uncomfortable. The situation became uncomfortable. How do you suspect, Darren, that they would have come up with what seems like such a ridiculous figure, which is way outside what is market value for coaches, services, especially given in situations like this specifically? Well, I have no idea. But sometimes the media plays a role because you talk about this mega contract and this mega deals and it says a whole bunch of assumptions. And, you know, so I guess, and then, like I said, they were in dialogue with other parties that they mentioned, you know, so like I said, at that point, it became uncomfortable. So you know that basically other persons were being brought into the situation. It's a private situation, you know, so basically, and the fact that you just basically pull the plug on an athlete, that definitely there you have scarred the relationship there in a way that, you know, you have to have a situation where everybody gets along and it is smooth sailing. So after that, then I didn't see where we could go and mend it. So I basically have to move forward quickly. Like I said, I want to give you the best possible chance in terms of you have to have you see the times that are out there and you see what the possibilities are. You see what you're up against. So basically, you have to get close to your base or better than your base. So you have to have a better situation. So I basically moved quickly. So I was kind of surprised when all this came on because I didn't thought that was, you know, it is just that it didn't work out. It didn't work out, you know, and it was a situation where it was almost like a stick up that didn't work, you know what I mean? So just so that's the way it came out. But then today I saw just names or a name just there, there, there. And it's a negative vibe and it is so you look past stuff, you can look past it because I mean, I look past it. But at the end of the day, people may just say stuff loosely and you don't really understand the impact that it has on a person, especially for athletes. You know, it is damaging. It is damaging when you want to compete at the highest level. Every little small, minute thing, it becomes a factor. You have to try to be strong as possible. But at the same time, it is just consistent. The same thing happens over and over in the media and then it seems like people form their own opinion and most of the stuff that comes out are not true or just misinformation. Yeah, after the break, which is coming up now, we will conclude our three part exclusive interview conducted Thursday evening with Darren Heera, husband of double, double Olympic champion, Elaine Thompson Heera. Back in a moment. This is the Friday edition of the Sportsmax Zone and we are continuing with our exclusive interview conducted on Thursday evening with the husband of a double, double Olympic sprint champion, Elaine Thompson Heera. Darren Heera has been talking to us about the highly publicized story that led to the separation between Thompson Heera and her coach, Shanique Osburn, who had taken over the coaching duties with her last summer. And here is part three now of this interview with Darren Heera. One of the things Darren is that, and I think Shanique Osburn said it as well, that she thought she had an agreement with Elaine Thompson Heera and it was your intervention that essentially changed Elaine's mind. That Elaine had agreed to the 15% that she was asking for. Elaine could have, no, I mean, just by agreeing to 15%, it would have reached. And then, remember, Elaine's contract was already there. She would have achieved what she did without Shanique. But why would Shanique think that Elaine had agreed to this, though? I mean, I have no idea because at the end of the, I was at the house when they went in the office and met, I was there. So when at the end of the meeting, we were still trying to figure out what would be a comfortable figure to propose. So I don't understand why she would have thought that Elaine was agreeing. So I mean, Elaine makes her own decision. Basically, if normally she's not brought into situations like this, she instructs what she's comfortable with, and I try to get it as close as possible to what it is, if not that. So, but in her role, she basically has to just train, try to sell and try to, you know, try to perform as best as possible. So there's no athlete that is their own management. So she's involved in whatever happens because it is she is the leader of the ship in that sense, basically. So whatever she's comfortable with would have happened. But that was just impossible. Yeah. And you know, Darren, there are those who would say that, given the way Elaine ended the season after Coach Osborn came into the picture that, you know, you should have done everything within your power to ensure that this relationship worked. When you sit back and you look at it, do you believe that you did everything you could have done to make this relationship work? Well, OK, so I did listen. I facilitated everything where we we have every possible piece of equipment you could think of. Highly invested in stuff like that. In terms of medical stuff, she gets the best. Miss Osborn doesn't know nothing about the medical situation, the equipment, the nothing other than coming to our location to train and basically guide Elaine. Like I said, her contract basic, what I proposed, basically was. Listen, moving forward, this was preexisting, moving forward. You would basically. Turn what you what you get pretty much. And that's pretty much it. And like I said, based on the situation that. Elaine knows is in Rino is a unique situation. We are very confident and comfortable. You know, at this point, I I I know, believe that maybe it happened for the best so no. I mean, we are very comfortable, no moving forward. And we are. Does that mean does does that mean you have found another camp? Does that mean you've you've found another coach? Does that mean you're going to be coaching her going forward? I mean, I'm definitely not coaching her. That's definitely not what the situation is. What the situation is. But we are basically we're I'm just making sure that the next situation is is is is pretty much final. That's everything is smooth before we proceed. But yeah, I think I mean, I guess everything happens for a reason. If actually nothing, then why could never be possible? So it's it's it's just the situation that we are in. I think I strongly believe it's a better situation. No, it sounds as if you've already identified a coach or a camp or whatever the situation might be. Pretty much we have, like I said, we are just doing our due diligence to make sure everything is smoothly done and and and when we start, there is no. It helps are no going back or no no no no type of issues. Just everything's moving forward. OK, so I mean, like I said, I came on just because the the kind of year it is the opportunity that she has put herself. She has given herself base and the double double and now putting herself in a position to go for a triple double. I don't see what is there that we like we wouldn't do. To to make that possible, you know, I give her a fear shot at that. The situation when you really look at it, if someone has your best interests, then that situation wouldn't wouldn't have came about. So, in a sense, it may have happened for a reason. And I really believe in that I pray a lot about certain things. And I just believe in timing and maybe it's just a perfect timing for this situation. So question, how is Elaine doing after everything? You know, what has she been up to? What's her spirit like? Well, I mean, Elaine is upbeat. Like we are we have done a lot of investing in terms of trying to figure out what causes the injury issues and what she should do more or what she should do less of just information to present to whatever coach we are working with. Because at the end of the day, it is that is really the root of her issues is real to have her stay in training and not be able to miss training session, you know, how to to miss less as less. Because I mean, at least they will miss sessions, but not three months. You know, that is that is ridiculous. So that she's been upbeat and she is she is very, very positive in going forward. So, you know, that's why I just wanted to make this situation go by as quickly as possible so we can get back to the road to to Paris, pretty much. And with the team that you have now decided to employ who we don't know who they are as yet, do you think Elaine will be back to the best, the one that we saw breaking all those records manifesting all these Olympic awards? Do you think she'll be there? Well, I mean, you know, sometimes like I said, you know, when something happens and at first year, because I was I was disappointed about the situation like I basically was I at the end of it, I look when I look back, I realize that I maybe I may have been forced in the situation a little bit too much. Like I said, this I was trying to get this done since September of 2022 is here. I can't for it is right there. I've been trying to get that done and it didn't happen. But now it's like you get this energy, this positive vibe about something like, okay, we have mutual goals. Just conversation. You you you found out that someone has been on the outside and, you know, basically having the same world as us here on the inside. So it's the best situation possible right now. Yeah, that's Darren Hero there. He's the husband of the Jamaican double, double Olympic sprint champion Elaine Thompson here talking about the highly publicized separation between Thompson here and her interim coach Shaniki Osburn. That interview exclusive on Sportsmax Thursday evening was triggered by Sportsmax dot TV story from Shaniki Osburn that suggested that a sportsman issued by hero Thompson's Thompson heroes management team the evening before was littered with lies. So Darren Hero wanted to publicly address some of the comments made by Shaniki Osburn in that Sportsmax dot TV story, which of course was written by our track and field ace writer Layton Levy, who joins us after the break to talk about the story back in a moment. The land of wooden water. Welcome back to the Sportsmax zone on this Friday and we just aired the second portion of our exclusive interview with Darren Hero, the husband of five-time Olympic gold medalist Elaine Thompson here, of course, essentially giving us a complete update on what led to the separation with coach Shaniki Osburn and we are now joined by Layton Levy, content editor at Sportsmax dot TV. Layton Levy really took the new ball on this issue or should I say the start has gone on this issue because it was his article published first yesterday with Shaniki Osburn that got things going and Layton just right away I want to get your initial reaction to everything that you have heard and that you are privy to of course you would have had your own conversation with coach Osburn and you would have heard the interview with Darren Hero. I want to go back a little bit further than that. The initial statement that came out from Iliens management, I think a lot of what has gone on has been through what I would call, I don't know, a breakdown in communication. First of all, the statement from underscores management says that there has been a separation between coach and athlete. I think what should have come next was we want to thank Ms. Osburn for her contribution to Layton's improvement last year but we have been unable to come to an agreement over compensation and we wish her the best going forward. I don't think there was a need to say she was asking for X and the numbers were unreasonable. I think that part of it should have remained confidential because that is what I think triggered everything going forward because then when you accuse or make an assertion that someone wanted compensation that was unwarranted then you're going to get a reaction and so Shaniki reacted, she responded, we spoke and they escalated into where we are now. Before you go further Layton, wasn't it you think important for Tom Sahira's management team to give at least an explanation as to why the deal broke down given a lot of what was being said in the public space? Yeah but as I said just mentioned that the practice couldn't come to terms and come to agreement in terms of compensation that was all you needed to say. You didn't need to go into the detail about who wanted what and it was untenable. That is what I think. Look how you communicate a particular message dictates how people respond to it and I think that part of it was necessary because here's what happens now. Then you have a conversation where both parties are stating their side and the truth is somewhere in between. If they had made that comment and saying that statement and saying okay we were unable to agree on compensation and leave it at that that gives you a reason and then you needed to say nothing else after that regardless of because journalists are going to get curious I'm going to ask why but you didn't need to say anything else and then it would gradually go away and once it went away everybody moves on without any of this tension now and the disaffection between the parties that seemingly no is at a point of disrepair because you know side A is saying this side B is saying this and both of them are beating their own drums but there I'm sure that there are elements of this negotiation that we're not going to be aware of and we will never never hear off that probably explains fully why the separation took place. I want to ask you this though Leighton because when the Tom Sahira management teams press release had come out initially I'm pretty certain that had heard from some journalistic sources that they were unable to get a response from Shanique Osburn or Shanique Osburn was unreachable. Now within 24 hours you saw her and she appeared willing to say everything to you she was willing I think based on what you just said based on the tone of the Tom Sahira management's press release that she wanted to spill all of her feelings which she did in the interview with you. Yeah but look when it makes her look like she was being unreasonable I think that probably hit a nerve for her where she felt she needed to respond because she felt based on the conversations that I had with her that she was asking for a party to a number that she felt was reasonable because look value is what? And that particular number Leighton is 15% so one of the things that I don't want us to do is to skirt around the issues and speak in generalizations I really want to speak to the specifics so that figure that you referenced is the 15% that's what she said she wanted and so my question to you now is do you think in this specific situation the 15% request is one a reasonable request or two an entitled request All right here's the thing value is what anybody's willing to pay for any particular good or service right? Value is also what a person believes that they are worth so I'm not going to say that her request was unreasonable because she believes that she's worth that who am I to argue that she's not How far is it from what I'm going to come to that because I say that because I want to lay the foundation for what I'm about to say next however I spoke to a number of coaches in the interim and they believe that the 15% is excessive in fact one coach said that is I'm trying to remember the exact wording but what he was saying was that you can't take 15% of anybody's money that's the gist of what he was saying right so I understand that side of it I also understand her side of it because regardless of what about 15% worked out too she felt she was worth that and I'm not going to tell her that she's not okay because based on what a couple of things based on what she was able to do in six weeks to take it in from a fifth place finish at the national championships when Damian Russell approached her and then took her to Darren Hero and then to see Elaine progress 9.9 back stretch at the world championships then 11 flat then 1092 then 1084 then 1079 suggests that she was worth the weight of the value of what she brought because she saw the improvement whether or not that was going to be the value long term is something that we'll never know now so was it entitled I can't honestly answer that because I don't know you're asking me to then predict the future so here's what I'll say Leighton because I have spoken to a number of industry experts and I'm talking about now mostly agents who help to negotiate or who negotiate many of these contracts and what I am told is that if an athlete is with a coach and when that contract is being negotiated with that specific coach in mind because it is the work of that coach that has brought the athlete to this stage then usually you can ask for a percentage and that may be 10% that may be 15% however in instances where an athlete goes to a coach with an existing contract what is usually the case is that there is a base salary and then the coach also gets a percentage of the bonuses so you have that base salary and that is what you negotiate which as far as my understanding is what the attempt was to get done in this situation to negotiate a base salary from what I understand the hero camp was willing to pay up to about 20% on the bonuses so the issue was really with the base salary which is something that is important and that comes down to an experience because I am not convinced that Shaniki is of the experience where she can negotiate those terms on her own which brings in my rust into the equation which then his injection into that occasion from hearing of both sides of the conversation his injection into that equation made it an unsolvable equation because then the numbers that he projected because what she said to me was that he was going to approach the hero camp with what he estimates aliens contract to be valued at based on numbers that have come out now those estimations were way off base which then now made that equation completely unsolvable I want to ask this quickly though because as Ricardo just mentioned and Deron Hero said it in the exclusive interview with us he wasn't that explicit but it was clear that he was trying to explain that Shaniki Osburn has come to an Elaine Thompson that is already here with a contract she had nothing to do with her worth as a financial property so it was on fear of her to ask to be aligned to an Elaine Thompson financial property that she had nothing to do with building and I think Deron Hero made that point I just want to ask though the 15% that we have referenced a few times so far this is 15% of what aspect of of the contract of her existing Puma contract her Puma contract which is not her overall income what her overall value is I just want to make sure I'm not sure many of our viewers understand that so this is 15% of the base of the contract the Puma contract that she has so understand which is why I made the point that what was being negotiated was the base for the course because there were bonuses to be had after the base was negotiated I understand that I just think that many of our viewers need to be clear as to what the 15% the Puma contract it has nothing to do with her earnings at Diamond League as far as the the constant conversation that I had it was based on the contract because she said that she said that she told her that he couldn't pay her 15% because then that would expose the value of the Puma contract and there was no other revenue streamer which she was negotiating some of our viewer reactions on YouTube and X gotten at least a couple of them said that Sportsmax needs to talk to Shaniki Osburn and her agent because they saw Darren Heera but you Layton, you are Sportsmax and you spoke with Shaniki Osburn do you think having listened to Darren Heera that he is fear in accusing because this is what he did he accused Shaniki Osburn of not caring about the athlete enough and caring more about the money that she would earn from coaching the athlete you spoke with Shaniki, you heard Darren do you think those were fear comments by Darren Heera No, I don't think because in my conversation with Heera I didn't get the impression that she this was about any level of greed or thinking about collecting the bag off the head of Elaine I think she felt at the time that she her feeling the impression I get based on the conversation we had was that she feels that if she is going to be coaching an elite athlete of that level and based on what her skill sets are this is what she believed she was worth So let me ask you this way Layton do you feel having looked at everything that there was a lack of understanding of how the system works on the part of Shaniki Osburn and her representative Kamiya Rossa, given everything that you know know I think so, I think as I said before the lack thereof of experience in terms of negotiating these kind of deals because I'm not sure how much of experience that Shaniki has had prior to this to negotiate a deal at this level and based on what we've seen so far this was a direct negotiation between her and Darren Heera this didn't involve any kind of representative, any agent who had that experience as far as I'm aware it was a compliance officer at MVP and he was a team manager but she was the one who brought Mr. Russell into the equation because he was the one who brought her into the equation by introducing her to Darren and saying that maybe she could be a better coach in terms of getting to move forward so when there are longer heads because of the frustration that clearly she was feeling at the time she brought him in hoping that he would have been able to find some level of agreement between both sides you just said that you don't think Shaniki Osburn is qualified to negotiate a contract at this level based on her experience or lack of do you think Damia Russell who she invited into the picture is qualified since you're saying that you don't think she is based on what we know now I don't think so either but I think she she felt like he was capable given the fact that he was working with MVP Pryo given the fact that he was a team manager at UTEC and of course now the assistant coach at the University of New Mexico Highlands he probably would have had that kind of experience where he would have understood the dynamics of how these contracts work and because she didn't have that experience she relied on him to be able to then move the deal forward Ricardo and Leighton do you think that having been associated with MVP in the past Damia Russell that Darren Hearer may have been aware of him before because he accused him in our exclusive interview of knowing nothing about track and field based on his interaction with him Darren Hearer said in the exclusive interview with Sportsmax that this is a man that doesn't know how track and field works I'll answer this way Lance and so when I spoke with Darren Hearer for the first time and I first heard about Damia Russell being part of the equation he could not even remember his full name which suggested to me this was not someone he knew a lot about before these conversations and before this negotiation started so I will answer it that way that's as best as I can answer it because when I was trying to find out who he was because when she said she brought him in to be able to then help to bring about an amicable agreement here I thought he was someone who probably had that experience but all the information that I managed to find about him was that that he had at UTEC and New Mexico there was nothing to suggest that he was trained in any way to negotiate these kind of deals and what she explained to me was that he said he was going to send Darren an estimate of what he believed the value of his contract was about which again shows that based on what the interview revealed with Darren showed that he was we are of base and the numbers that he would have come with were not going to be logically plugged into that equation yeah let's ask you the question late and earlier about whether you thought Shaniki Osburn was being unreasonable in her requests having listened to Darren here do you believe that he was unreasonable in his approach based on what you heard from him well ok here is the thing here is where the divergence takes place he argued about putting things on the table in terms of that deal with other bonuses etc I didn't hear that from her so I can't honestly say you know what that circumstance was but what she said to me was that when she made her she put what she wanted on the table with the new figure from Mr. Russell was that he said that they were trying to extort him or extorting Lain which means that he didn't think the numbers were logical and based on what he said obviously clearly the numbers were ridiculous one of the things I want to say Lance and Layton because I understand based on what has happened in the past and based on the public rhetoric that there seems to be a lack of trust in the here a camp and so from that standpoint when I was investigating this story one of the things I ensured was that whatever was going to be said in that interview yesterday there was evidence to support I say that to say that I can speak confidently that what was said as it relates to how the negotiations unfolded was factual so I have no issues from that standpoint or concerns about whether these are actually the facts now how we interpret and analyse those facts becomes a completely different issue but in terms of the facts of what was brought out I have no concerns about that and you had the advantage of having seen those conversations was as I mentioned before when I spoke to Shaniki around the phone what Lance just asked me about the details of what that negotiation was from her side I didn't get that information because then she was giving me the conversation between her and Darren not anything that had to do with that my Rose was discussions with him so I didn't have access to that information and having read everything having read your story Leighton and having listened to Darren here on Thursday and earlier today this is how I surmise it Shaniki Osbrun felt that she deserved 15% of Elaine's contract as her coach Elaine Thompson here and Darren here felt that because she was coming into an existing situation and because they were providing the training facilities the equipment for Elaine Thompson here to have success and all the coach was coming with was her expertise and her whistle then there was to ask for 15% was unreasonable and so what they wanted was a figure now I've heard a $40,000 figure banded about as to what was offered I understand that was an initial offer which was rejected by Shaniki Osbrun and that's when the request came to provide a number that would be satisfactory for you to coach Elaine Thompson here and it was having requested that figure that the numbers that Darren here spoke to us about yesterday close to a million US dollars which is a base figure plus bonuses in that close to one million US dollars so it's not having listened to everything I am pretty clear in my mind that that is how this negotiation unfolded and once that final figure came as Darren here pointed out it was felt we could not go forward with this and that figure as he said was ridiculous because look for you to get if you are assuming that 15% of Elaine's contract is 750,000 US dollars that would assume that Elaine would probably be the highest paid track and field athlete in the world and rivaling some top athletes in other sports and I don't think that's the case you know so those numbers are way off base and I think as I said before plugging in those numbers to that equation made it an unsolvable equation we are fast out of time where do you think she should go next? I don't know where can she go she can't go to elite for obvious reasons Stephen Francis says she's not welcome back at MVP I don't think given where she is aligned to in terms of shoe sponsors Sprintek is not an option Darren says it's not going to be him but it has to be somebody yeah one plausible coach could probably be Michael Frito but I don't know O'Keele Smith is not a 100 meter 200 meter guy you mean O'Keele Stewart? I said Smith he has coached quality sprinters before not at the level that level I don't know I'm actually eager to find out where she's going to end up because the coach actually goes to has to be someone with a significant experience who is going to be able to bring her along given the space of time having said that do you trust Darren Heero's posture in the interview with us that he is comfortable and feels energized and is confident about the immediate future because what has happened here he may feel as Elaine's husband and this is such a public story that he wants to put a positive spin on the story he wants to advertise a posture of things being okay so do you think that he is genuinely feeling that they're in a good place and they're okay or he's just saying that because it just feels positive to go that route I'm hoping he makes the right decision in terms of who to select to be the next coach because as he said Elaine is approaching territory that no other female athletes have ever done before three-time Olympic champion in the spring double but she's already done what no one else has done she's already in the concept of one because she's the only person who has ever done it so to take this photo and she's been icon in the sport and she probably would be considered the greatest of all time so this is a very very important window of opportunity for them to find the right coach and the right environment for her to thrive over the next nine months before she goes into Paris so I'm hoping that whatever decision they make to find a new coach that will be the right one there's no second chance of this you have one shot it's not like Elaine is 22 or 23 years old she's 31 so this is not for the next Olympic cycle she's going to be 35 there's no guarantee she's going to be the Elaine Thompson that we know now at 35 so this is a hit or miss situation if you miss there's no second chance of it so I'm hoping with fingers and toes crossed is the right one yeah well all the sports journalists across Jamaica and maybe even the Caribbean probably scampering now trying to figure out where Elaine Thompson goes next I suspect we'll find out soon that's it for this segment of the Sportsman Zone