 Live from Seattle, Washington. It's theCUBE, covering DockerCon 2016. Brought to you by Docker. Now, here are your hosts, John Furrier and Brian Graceley. Hello, and welcome back live here. The CUBE is in Seattle for DockerCon 2016. This is SiliconANGLE Media's flagship program where we go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise. I'm John Furrier, my co-host, Brian Graceley. We keep on chief analyst for the cloud. And that's Amy Lewis, Combs, Ninja. Welcome to theCUBE, good to see you again. Thank you, it's good to be here. So we'd love to get down and dirty and talk about DockerCon because the growth has just been astonishing from great open source, great community, and now you got all the vendors who see magic here with the developers. NetApp is one of them. HP's doing deals with them. IBM's got an event on Wednesday. Why the magic with the developers now with the commercialization? And do you see any potential hot spots there is it all goodness, all great, and all the time, what's your thoughts? Well, it's my first DockerCon as well. Obviously, NetApp has been involved before. SolidFire has been interested in this community. We have a focus on developer advocacy. So I think a lot of it is just saying the world is changing. We know that technology is changing. We know the market is evolving. And developers are not just the people in the basement that nobody talks to anymore. They've got storage needs. They've got needs. They don't care about infrastructure, true. But they do care about what are their apps going to run on? How is it going to function? How can their life be made easier? So I think that there's a natural and evolving synergy. Yeah, I mean, you're managing a team now, a developer advocate. It's like, what are they doing? We hear that term thrown around a lot. What are they doing with developers? What are developers telling them? Well, you know, there's a lot of t-shirts and pizza. That's important. But can't be understated stickers. Very important in the sticker market. But it really, in all seriousness, let the code speak for it, you. You know, it's a community where your work and your contributions are what speak for you. And you can't put your finger on a particular problem that's being solved per se. So I think that's part of what might be frustrating to traditional marketing or traditional sales, because it is a process of a thousand pebbles. There isn't this one big moment where you have this one big problem that you have a traditional rollout or et cetera, et cetera. It is constant contribution. It's constant engagement. It's what does this API do? This solves a very particular problem. If that makes sense, it's just, it's a different. One of the things that SolidFire did was amazing was they had the all flash, they stick to their guns and really had high performance and follow on that success. They come into NetApp, great leader in storage, but they're trying to reinvent themselves. Now with Cloud, the word, Composal's been kicked around, certainly HP puts that out there. But the word infrastructure at code has always been kind of like more for provisioning, chef, puppet, configuration management, and some orchestration here and there for the most part. But now for the first time, you're seeing real infrastructure as code. From a developer standpoint where stuff actually works and then you don't actually get back in the weeds and tweak it. That's the nirvana for infrastructure as code. Your thoughts on timing of where that's at now, I mean that seems to be more and more the case. Certainly they got to get in and do some configuration. We talk about security orchestration that's being worked on, but for the most part, we are living in a world now of infrastructure as code. Do you see it that way and your thoughts? Well, I think that we are less and less tolerant of being told things work this way because this is the way it's always worked. So blame the millennials in a good way, maybe. But we've all become a little bit more millennial, right? Where we want our apps to perform a certain way. We want things as we want them when we want them. So I think that there is no going back. That genie doesn't go back in the bottle. I think we are at an early stage of it. I like how you're putting it, but I think that we will see this, this will become more and more the norm. And that classic pioneers, town planners, settlers kind of model, we're going to move to settling very quickly. That we've got people pioneering in that field, but we'll move to settling where that is the new normal. And we'll see what was considered maybe more traditional companies kind of entering that space because it's saying there is a new way of doing business. At the end, the dollar speaks and you want to be where the customers are and where the needs are. So the industry will move where the customers demand. And customers are getting trained in these new ways. SolidFire had a really big position in OpenStack. They're doing really well with service providers. What are you, what's SolidFire teaching NetApp about how to sell, how to talk to those types of customers? Cause it was about APIs and it was about moving quickly, which is very different than most storage stuff. Like what are you guys teaching them as the acquisition evolves? I think there's a lot of lessons to go both ways. I mean, the benefits of an acquisition is everybody gets to learn something. And so it really is sort of an expansion of a portfolio approach. I think part of what's been interesting is that there are, there's not as much overlap as one with things. So I think that's always a concern when you come in. So you've got, again, this portfolio sort of broaden the spectrum. I also think that you've got an interesting idea that just as you were saying, John, that you sell to different customers within the same large entity. So because we do think like a service provider, if you will, and look to enterprises that have their IT departments function like service providers, we often hit a different customer set within a established customer base, which I think is a really different way of thinking as well. So you might be selling to John and we might be selling to Jane. And that's been kind of a learning that we've all been going through. That there are different people who buy and need storage for different purposes. Back to that, you know, infrastructure as code kind of concept. You know, the interesting thing that we're watching and here is that growth has been great. And obviously we're big fans of Docker. So we love the success of the company and also the ecosystem. But the question of the management software, you've seen the announcements today, orchestration, simplicity, and the democratization were a little bit over the top fluff. But, you know, the management seems to be key. So I want to ask you the question. You've seen the historical view of management, you know, down from storage, Luns to servers and now networking and now infrastructure as code. How has the management software side of things changed in the past five years? And where it is today? What do you see as the major, if someone in IT said, hey, what's the big deal of this management stuff? I had to, I used to do this like this before. What's been the big change over? Again, I think you move right from pioneer to settler as quickly as possible, right? So you've got, where before it was always single pane of glass. I would ask you guys, like, when's the last time you heard single pane of glass? Or I think we've moved to a place of- IBM loves that term. Well, I think that we've got, I think we've moved to use the management tool that achieves the job you need it to achieve. And the idea of doing it by hand, so to speak, has evaporated completely. That the concept of some, the ability to manage to get to the scale that you need is understood and we're in settling phase, if you will. That whereas before people would kind of cobble something together, I don't think that's, there's so many options. There's so many, there's so many ways to do it. So there's new, so many changes that have gone on. It's almost a reboot everything. Security to identity. Yeah, I mean, again, the conversations I think back three, four years ago that I was having in terms of what people did, it's not even the same conversation now. The whole- In what way? Like it's because it was so speeds and feeds, now it's different or what's that different about? It's no, I haven't heard it was the year of VDI a single time, for instance. No, but it's, I think that what is amazing is what you think is cutting edge moves so quickly. If you were to draw that graph of what is cutting edge and what seems impossible moves so quickly to the norm and then people demand more, demand more, demand more. So any number of topics and management planes being one of them. Which controller you use is kind of, it's almost a bygone conversation. I got to ask both of you guys, Brian in particular, to comment on this because Dave and I, Dave, I always talk about dev ops because we much love dev ops but then ops dev because we're swinging back into the world where the ops guys are certainly looking at the security we're talking about that before we came on camera and identity management. All these things are coalescing into a whole new fabric. Composable, Lego Blast, whatever word you want to use. It's really a cool developer environment. But now these are operational challenges. I mean, you were talking about putting malware in a container. That's cool, it's a great use of security. Scale your security hacks. Well look, I don't know if it was a year ago or two years ago, you did an interview with Pat Gelsinger and he said, hey look, dev ops is really sort of a little bit of dev and a lot of ops. That's what a lot of this show is, right? I want the developers to go fast. The only way it's going to happen is the ops has got to get at least reasonably faster and Amy talks to people all the time trying to change their career. A lot of VM where people are trying to evolve. I mean, there's a, it's the classic thing where you go, I know this has got to happen. I've got a huge workforce. It's not a bad thing though. It's not a bad, look, it's evolution. It always happens in tech. It's just, people sometimes want to control it more than it gets forced on them. Amy, your thoughts, because this is not actually a bad thing. Operations is what runs the business. So it, you used to have a negative connotation sense that they were always the no ops, you know. No to everything, right? But now with dev ops becoming kind of standard, the operational cycle's kind of getting cutting edge. Your thoughts on that? I would agree. I think it's evolve or die, to be honest. And which may sound harsh, but it is harsh. But I think people have to evolve their skill sets. They have to evolve how they do it. Because you talk about security, for instance. Like all of us can be a security breach at any one time. And, you know, with automation, with containers, you can, you can be malicious at scale more easily than you ever have been before. So respect for the people who have to run the operational side, but the demands on are extreme. And so you're not looked at as the DMV. You have to evolve. Yeah, I mean, the security is like an app. I mean, an issue because all the messaging from the Docker, performance at scale, security by default. You can actually substitute hacking. Hacking at scale, you know. As a service. It's odd. Highly scalable. It's no longer just an avocado. No, but this is a real issue. This has to get into the data layers, it's down in the storage. I mean, these are cutting edge, computer science, DevOps questions. Something somebody said to me about security a long time ago, and then in an age of paper where digital security was less of a concern. It's just one bump of a UPS truck away from being a problem. Like, happen to me, you know, you've got a package where all your social security numbers fly off the truck, security breach. And we live in an age where that scale times 10 million. Like it's always possible. So operations, I admit, it's a more challenging role than it's ever been. But it has to be, it can't, people will work around. We have so many ways to work around that if operations doesn't move at the speed of the dev side of the house, then you've got automatic problems. Certainly as a revenue model, Brian, right now for a lot of people in the ecosystem to add value. Well, look, security is one of those things where people don't spend a lot of money. There's an old joke that used to say companies spend more money on coffee than they spend on security in a big business. But nowadays with, at least with security, I can say, look, if we're hacked and I lose X million credit cards, I know exactly what that's going to cost my business, assuming I'm still in business. I can spend security money against that risk. It's like buying insurance. Saying you're going to make cloud native applications go faster, I don't always know how to quantify that. Security, I can quantify it. There's 28 years. Oh, ransomware is booming right now. Ransomware, yeah. Some people are saying ransomware is the next Y2K problem that no one's talking about. Yeah, we saw a blue coat just get acquired for $5 billion, Lumio's doing great, Skyport systems is doing well. You can see it's selling twice the gear. I mean, it's just adding on more and more security with hardware. So, again, this is cutting edge. All right, final thoughts. Amy, your vibe of the show right now is what? I know it's day one, but what's your take? It's your first time here at DockerCon, vis-a-vis other industry shows, whether it's industry or open source, your thoughts. Well, one of my obviously passion issues, I've seen more women here than I've seen at several conferences I've been at in under an hour. So, let's hear it for the women who are doing development and are out doing the jobs. So, that's been very impressive. And you know what, there's a great energy. I love the community atmosphere here. It's always great to be part of a technology that's on a growth cycle. Because you get an openness, you get a friendliness, and you get just kind of a willingness to learn. We haven't moved to a, we're not cynics yet. We haven't moved into the cynicism that sometimes can accompany things that have been going for a while. So, it's really great. You know, an open stack or something like that, yeah. Yeah. It's been a great, I'm excited to be here, and it's been really great to just have conversations with people. Well, thank you for sharing your insight here on theCUBE. Really appreciate it. Thanks for looking forward to more content here. We have a lot of wall-to-wall coverage. We are here live in Seattle for DockerCon 2016's theCUBE. I'm John Furrier with Brian Gracie. We'll be right back after this short break.