 So, this is a remarkable panel and it is, we're going to have a great conversation about the energy system of the future. Just a quick reminder, I'm going to introduce people very, very briefly. If you want to get their full biographical information, you can pick up a summary of their biographies on the front table. I'm going to start here and then I'm going to have a seat and I'm going to start by introducing Mandy Mahoney. Mandy is the director of the Building Technologies Office at the U.S. Department of Energy. Welcome and congratulations on your new position. Really looking forward to having a great conversation. Good afternoon. Y'all are my official first external engagement in my new role. This is my fifth week at the Department of Energy, so I'm just thrilled to be with all of you today and thank you for having me and for ESI for convening this annual event. There's so much excitement about today and having us come after the senators just inspiring remarks is wonderful. In many of the things he said really resonated with me, as you can hear from my accent, I do hail from the Deep South and so how buildings drive home diversity, equity and inclusion goals of this administration is really centered to my heart and the work that I'm committed to doing as a person but also in this role at the Building Technologies Office. Today I look forward to talking to you about the programs that we're doing. I hope Dan will help me watch time because David, great. Thank you. Yes, we've, being that we have six panelists today and so when we think about buildings we really think about how they are at the center of the technology revolution. We spend our time in buildings and when you look at how natural resources are being consumed we still are using more energy in buildings than anywhere else. It's still eclipses transportation and so it is critical to continue driving forward the work that we have to do to upgrade building stock, to invest in and design new technology but also again something that's really central like that's always on my heart being from the South is that so many of the buildings that we inhabit are just substandard and so as we are thinking about the leading edge technology that we want to be adopting we've also got to think about the safety, the habitability of the buildings that so many people are in, so many people that exist. When you hear people talk about energy burden what it actually a shorthand for is that building is leaky, there's hot air coming in in the summer or hot air, yeah hot air in the summer and cold air in the winter and so it's really hard and it makes you it's an unhealthy building to be in. So what is driving me as we look at the leading edge technology that we're doing research and development on is not just that we figure out the best not technological solution but it's a solution that can really work for all people and so one of those issues that we were working on is actually cold climate heat pumps and so that is a new prize that we have launched at DOE it's actually the residential cold climate heat pump challenge and already several manufacturers are on track to get the new residential models out on the market next year so we will continue to be working to drive those technologies so that they can work in the colder climate so that we can count on them especially as we have more crazy weather happening and we see snaps and like we saw last year and even in the south where we right before Christmas in Tennessee and North Carolina we had blackouts because we saw an intense snap of cold and so we at DOE see it's really critical to figure out the cold climate challenge for heat pumps and we're excited to have this official partnership to do that. I also want to tell you some good news about the bipartisan infrastructure law an announcement that the Secretary made last week we have she announced that we are investing $225 million in building energy codes and she was in New Orleans with the National Home Builders Association to spotlight work that that we are doing in the south and in Louisiana so that the building habitability can improve so we can get higher quality buildings that people are living in and that project is that funding is going to 27 projects around the country states cities tribes and other partners and we will be there's a big data component data collection component of that also so that we can continue to be improving not just the adoption of new codes but that folks that are enforcing them actually know how to ensure that buildings are built to these new codes so that we're getting training done on them so that the full potential is realized and given my time I am now going to conclude but look forward to further conversation with everyone as we move into the discussion thank you Mandy and thank you for making this your first external engagement I think technically it was your choice so you could have said no but we're happy you said yes thank you so much for being here next up we at least a Jacobson followers of ESI might say wait a minute wasn't she just on a panel back in March around the clean energy fact but sustainable energy in America factbook you bet and she's back Lisa's the president of the business council for sustainable energy take it away Lisa thank you so much and congratulations to you Dan and to the entire ESI team just an amazing event I've had the opportunity to be here this morning and listen to all the discussion and it really is inspiring and if we think about what we were doing exactly a year ago many of us were in the trenches kind of fighting to see if we could get some of this landmark legislation enacted and yes we did and so now we're also very busy trying to implement it well so I appreciate all the attention that your panel has spent on really the building blocks and what this panel is about you know the future but you know before we talk about the future I think it's important to think about where we are and kind of looking at the last decade or more a few thoughts to share so where are we we certainly have in the United States a more diverse power and energy system that's very good news we are cleaner and we are more energy efficient with our energy and electric system but we face very significant risks energy security global competitiveness issues and clearly the impacts of climate change so the level set a little bit I'm going to share just a few kind of top line facts from the 2023 sustainable energy in America fact book and you can watch that full panel discussion that we had with ESI in March and I invite all participants to do that but but at a high level let me just say that in the United States and around the world the clean energy transition is well underway and it's being led by a broad portfolio of energy efficiency and clean energy technologies products and services just looking at the very short term in 2022 coming out of the covid pandemic business climate we still had record breaking years in terms of deployment and investment and they span the areas of renewable energy production and for a record breaking year on the proportion of renewable energy that was integrated into our electricity mix we had record breaking years for sustainable transportation in the signs of electric vehicle sales we also had record breaking years in energy storage I could go on but we clearly have much more to do I also wanted to tick through a couple of other contextual issues you know I spoke about the impacts of climate change we have made very significant emissions reductions but we still have much more to do to meet our own obligations as a country under the Paris agreement and also just to keep up with sound science but so where are we we are at pre-pandemic levels for our economy wide greenhouse gas emissions reductions and that is good and we made some emissions reductions in the last full year 2022 but we have ways to go we're about 14 percent below 2005 emissions and that's the base year that we account for our target of 50 to 52 percent below 2005 levels under the Paris agreement so we've got a lot to do interestingly the power sector has really been leading the way and we are about 35 percent below our 2005 emissions and that's been done with a lot of investment a lot of public-private partnership a lot of long-term policy support and so you know I am anxious and ready to move but I'm also optimistic because we have been able to move the needle very significantly I just came and some of my colleagues have just come from a meeting of utility commissioners from around the country in Austin Texas it is really hot there it's hot here too and a hot in Arizona and hot in many many states it just makes you realize how much climate change is impacting our country and that's just heat we could talk about extreme cold and other events but looking at 2022 this was the third costliest climate disaster year on record 3.4 million Americans had to evacuate their homes due to those storms many of those storms were a billion dollars or more in fact we had 18 of them so I you know we have to keep that in mind so we're talking about the future I was going to highlight in my last few moments digital technologies that's kind of my my showpiece for the moment because it is cross-cutting cross-cutting in terms of all technologies and cross-cutting to benefit all of our economy segments and it's really on the rise and our fact book this year for the first time covered data data on digital solutions so I encourage I'm happy to talk more about it but you know in terms of the future there are many technologies we're going to use but I think digital technology solutions can really scale up the benefits in terms of our energy productivity our competitiveness and our innovation thank you thank you Lisa next up is my friend Malcolm Wolf Malcolm is president and CEO of the National Hydropower Association it is now okay good afternoon everybody great to be here thanks Dan again for the invitation many of you I think all of you now if I were to talk about a wind farm you have something a vision in mind a solar array you have a sense of what that looks like but I'm stunned how many folks have no sense of what a hydropower facility is or does the number of emails I get about the Western drought and how come hydropowers using up all the water we don't use up the water it runs through the facility so so I wanted to quickly share in the time I've got a few thoughts about how the hydropower industry has a role in accelerating the clean energy transition so I want to quickly talk a little bit about who the industry is why you might want to care what's at risk and a little bit about what are the some of the key policy issues that are still pending here in Congress so who we are we provide about 7% of electricity generation providing power to about 30 million Americans so I'm amazed you know 30 million Americans is a lot of people but often we're left out forgotten or taken for granted in a lot of the clean energy conversations so that's equivalent to 80 gigawatts of existing carbon-free hydropower that's either reservoir hydropower or run-of-river hydropower there's another 22 23 gigawatts of pump storage so together that's over 100 gigawatts of carbon free generation that's already on the grid so why should you care let me give you four reasons first climate with over 100 gigawatts of carbon free generation that's a lot of generation which is already on the grid which is amazing and wonderful and we need to keep those facilities going so we don't go backwards on climate but equally important second reason 20 for 7 reliability I love wind I love solar I love batteries but batteries are really effective right now in the 2 hour range maybe the 4 hour range you know the sun goes down almost every night you know we need power 24 7 to you know watch Netflix and and charge our phones and everything else so having energy storage that's flexible that can go online when when variable wind and solar aren't available or when a traditional hydropower or a traditional fossil fuels plant trips offline we need that 24 7 reliability and it needs to have long duration energy storage because there are times when you know the wind doesn't blow for days on end third reason that you might want to care essential grid services often overlooked because right now with wind and with coal and and gas we've got plenty of it but as those we cycle off we're going to need other forms of technologies to provide those essential grid services what am I talking about black start when there is a grid failure how do you start up the grid without electricity we're 6% of the grid but we're 40% of the black start spinning reserves don't really have to think about it until you don't have it anymore as coal and natural gas retires we're going to need all of that inertia and other resources that hydropower provides final reason is new gigawatts department of energy a few years ago did a study without building new dams just using the existing infrastructure we can get 50 new gigawatts of hydropower 97% of dams are not powered I'll say that again only 3% of the existing fleet is powered most of those facilities are for flood control irrigation recreation water storage we only actually have 3% of power so there's a lot of potential with the existing infrastructure so the reason I mention this is because I think we could go backwards in our efforts to decarbonize the grid and to have a 24-7 reliable grid we have about half of the non-federal fleet up for relicensing in the next dozen years relicensing typically takes 7.6 years there are unfortunately dozens and dozens of examples of it taking many decades and these facilities are right now questioning whether they should relicense or just surrender and if they surrender it could mean going backwards on climate backwards on a reliable grid maybe locking in carbon-based resources for a lot longer than than we otherwise would so fortunately a number of folks here in Congress are looking at a number of options there's a bipartisan bill getting a hearing tomorrow senator Danes and senator Cantwell I have a license reform bill there's a similar bill that house energy and commerce chair chairwoman Catherine McMorris Rogers is sponsoring so we've got license reform bills that really have serious traction in both the house and the Senate we think it's important that that get addressed in whatever Congress does on energy permanent there's an infrastructure tax bill that senators Cantwell and Murkowski have been pushing to try to incentivize infrastructure investments in environmental safety and dam safety there's also a 21st century dam bill that's going to get reintroduced we've worked hard with our environmental friends and tribal friends to have a bipartisan push to address existing repowering existing dams creating more generation from dams but also dam removal where the non-powered dam no longer serves a purpose so a lot of really interesting intersection between clean energy environmental policy water resources a lot of exciting things happen thank you Malcolm it's my pleasure to introduce Ralph Cleveland Ralph is the president and CEO of the American Association of Blacks and Energy welcome Ralph thank you very much first let me say it's a pleasure for me to be here and I'm very appreciative of the opportunity to spend a little bit of time first I have to give you this warning I'm a recovering engineer and what that tends to mean I've tried to overcome that trait but what that typically means and as as even we talk about the new energy system or the future energy system there tends to be a focus on the technology and or the infrastructure but truly what I want to do is expand your definition of the system so in my definition of the system the system also includes the people in the workforce the system also includes the processes the policies the practices associated with how those people behave and operate in the system the system also includes the supply chain I've actually run had the pleasure of running two Fortune 500 company supply chain so I know how important that is nothing happens without a really good and reliable resilient supply chain it also that then includes the customers and the end users and as a president and CEO for the American Association of Blacks and Energy as you can imagine in many instances our communities are the most vulnerable on the system and so how we think about the system and how it impinges how it impacts those who are the end users those who are using of the services is is important as well and so and I as I also as an engineer I'm I I tend to think of things in terms of design how should the system be designed you have to first think about what's the mission of the system and I'll give you this definition in terms of that mission we as energy professionals and I come from I've been in this energy sector now for almost 40 years and so we exist to most affordably produce and effectively distribute as much reliable and safe energy products and services which are needed for basic survival and to improve the quality of life for as many people as possible for as many people as possible that's a profound responsibility the other thing that I will say is we have a tremendous responsibility to do this with the least adverse impact on human health in the environment as is possible and that typically means the cleaner the better so if you start with that's the mandate that's the mission and you also realize there's there are still a million people on planet Earth who don't have access to affordable reliable energy and what are we going to do about that so and when we think about the system of the future as well there are trends that have been mentioned already so there's going to be a hundred and thirty one trillion dollars that needs to be spent on this energy system globally in order for us to reach the climate change goals that's a lot of money that's a lot of activity and the thing that I would say as we think about the people the workforce the supply chain and other things that are going to be needed in order to continue to transform this system we have to think about how do we get everyone all hands on deck so to speak there are many communities right now that are underrepresented in this energy sector how do we tap into that potential that is there in order for us to create the change that's needed and necessary but then also for the end users I talk about vulnerable customers and particularly in this age when we're going to more distributed energy resources as well what that what that might mean is if we're not careful that those who can afford the distributed energy resources also can afford to be off of the grid or at least semi off of the grid and then those who can't afford our left should shouldering the burden of maintaining the existing and older infrastructure so we have to be careful about things relative to equity of access to these resources how do we design a system that creates equity in this access as we talked about in terms of what our mission is for this entire system and so these are things that you know at the American Association of Blacks and Energy we've been in existence for almost 50 years we were started in 1977 during the Carter administration during the energy crisis when there was discussion around policies practices and other as it relates to the energy sector and there were no people of color in those conversations and so how do we make sure that we have all the voices that are needed at the table in order to represent the true breadth of the challenges that we face if we're going to do this in a way that we really do have a system that allows for equity of access that allows for the most affordable and reliable energy possible to as many people as possible how do we go about doing that we are certainly absolutely in the midst of this energy transition and how we think about it how we design this system that we are building out this is the time for us to be having those conversations and so what certainly what we want to do is provide as much insight as to what these policies practices what this infrastructure does mixture of infrastructure means to our communities and also to be able to do so in a way that helps everyone to understand the impact to the most vulnerable that's part of what our mission is as an organization so as the here's what I'd also say this as we think about things like diversity equity and inclusion and in many circles diversity equity inclusion has become a four-letter word the thing that I would say is that no matter what field of endeavor you're in there is going to be diversity diversity very simply is it is any mixture with similarities and differences and any time you have a mixture with similarities and differences there are going to be tensions and complexities the question becomes do we have the ability to make quality decisions in the midst of all of that tension and complexity do we have leaders who understand what are the outcomes that are most important for our society and who can then sort that through so that preferences traditions customs biases don't masquerade as requirements it's when those things masquerade as requirements that we end up with systems that don't meet the needs and so as we think about how do you manage diversity whether it's a diversity of technology it's a diversity in the workforce it's a diversity in the supply chain we've all seen what happens when you rely on you know any particular supply chain and all of a sudden you run into issues with it we saw that in spades during the pandemic even in our society today about 3% of B2B firms provide 80% of the goods and services that are used by Fortune 500 companies that's a tremendous amount of risk concentration in our economy and we've seen what happens when you do that and so how we think about diversification in all of these particular areas is important most financial advisors would never tell you in your portfolio to have 80% of your portfolio in one particular asset asset type so we recognize that the need for diversity and so many other areas and I think what part of what we what we lose sometimes is how do you let truly leverage diversity to produce the outcomes that are most important to us how do you leverage diversity in order to produce high performance in our society and in our economy and on our teams in our organizations so this skill set of managing diversity managing similarities and differences the tensions and the complexities is going to be an important skill set to be in the mix as we talk about the system moving forward so so much of what I'm describing to you are sort of the softer side of the system but they're very important pieces and elements of the system if we're going to create the outcomes that are most important to us so with that I'll turn it back that's great Ralph thank you so much next we'll hear from Bill Parsons Bill is vice president federal and state affairs for the American for American Clean Power and he's also a member of our distinguished advisory board at ESI so thanks Bill for joining us today it's great to see you thank you good to be here so ACP the American Clean Power Association it's a it's a unifying voice it's a trade association it's a unifying voice of utility scale wind to both onshore and offshore solar energy storage green hydrogen and the transmission that connects at all so when you hear ACP or American Clean Power I hope that's sort of what you'll think about this is a panel about the future of energy so today those technologies that we represent are about 15% of the electricity mix it's not including Malcolm's members and so we can we can get the clean number higher than that but we're at about 15% if everything goes right okay if the IRA isn't repealed if we don't make unforced errors in the areas of and we don't do what we need to do in the areas of permitting reform trade supply chain to Ralph's Point workforce there's going to be a million new jobs created in this industry over the next decade we're going to need to find train and recruit talent everywhere we can get it big up big growth opportunity and that's very exciting if all of that happens we we're going to triple annual levels of renewable deployment over the next 10 years one thing to notice in this conversation where people I think sometimes people can erroneously shorthand intermittent which these technologies are solar I mean Malcolm's correct the most nights the sun does go down intermittent is not the same thing as unreliable in fact today as we speak there are areas of the country that are running on more than 50% renewables right now and you're not going to hear about it because it's pretty routine and it's not a problem so when we talk about doubling or tripling levels from here mindful that our baseline is 15% there's a lot of headroom here to take advantage of America's world class resource very affordable electrons 100% clean and that's very good news so in terms of steel in the ground today up to this point it's been about 60% wind almost entirely on shore 38% solar 2% energy storage okay that ratio is going to flip in the next 10 years in terms of you look at pipeline of what people are building solar is gonna we're gonna we're gonna have an inflection point where solar is going to overtake wind and become the most popular technology being deployed over the next 10 years that's an interesting development new technologies energy storage offshore wind green hydrogen are kind of low single digits to asterisk today massive opportunity for growth that's also good news for American innovation for the employment opportunities for the contribution that we make to grid security and you know the economic competitors that we can have when we have I remember what I saw I was a hill guy for 15 years and I remember to chairman Wyden's comments there was a time when energy was you know polluting where the thought was something like a carbon tax would send the right price signal to get people to use a less of it if your energy is clean cheap energy is an advantage right and we need to move towards that that's that is a that is a national advantage that we should be moving towards okay I wanted to say a couple specific words about green hydrogen because that's I think sometimes people talk about green hydrogen as if it is an industry that already exists it does not the green hydrogen industry does not yet exist at scale it could and and many of my members are very much hoping that it will but we're gonna have to get a few things right just to kind of level set 99% of hydrogen made today comes from natural gas it is an emitting source of hydrogen the way you make green hydrogen is with a machine called an electrolyzer that splits water molecules we remember from chemistry H2O the H is hydrogen so an electrolyzer will split off that hydrogen molecule these these electrolyzers are expensive and they need to be and so to build a business model around them you have to account for that price and you have to be able to count on a utilization rate that they're not sitting idle all the time why this is relevant now you may have hurt you know in the RTO insider or in other areas of the press there is guidance coming out around the hydrogen production tax credit there are some decision points that are going to get made that are going to be hugely consequential as to whether this industry can launch or as to whether it kind of doesn't have an opportunity to take off the good news is there is broad alignment around that for people who delve into hydrogen they're what are called three pillars one is additionality so you want to power the electrolyzer with new clean generation so that you avoid using old generation which would have been providing you know a clean service or clean the supply of electrons to the grid so additionality proximity probably better to have the generating source that's that's feeding the electrolyzer closer to the source you know closer to that electrolyzer than all the way across country because the grid is different depending on which you know node and also which also market you're in there is basic unanimity that we ought to insist on additionality that we ought to be have proximity requirement where the remaining sort of decision point is and this is going to be consequential is the question of time matching and and how quickly we can move to hourly time matching which is would be the strictest requirement and I think it is it is the consensus position of ACP members that that is a desirable outcome to move towards alongside a temporary kind of on ramp to get the industry started so a transition period where annual matching would be used for several years I think there's there's a good deal of agreement in some parts of the environmental community that that's appropriate people will debate how many years of transition period and so forth but just I'm aware I'm in a room of energy policy experts and staff and so forth so this is guidance that will be coming last point I want to make in hydrogen before sending this back to Dan is you know kind of in Malcolm's vein and why should we care so if you go to the to the EPA website and you look at the the pie chart that they have of where what sectors of the economy are responsible for greenhouse gas emissions heavy industry like cement like steel like long-haul transportation is going to be very difficult to electrify and therefore hard to abate with just energy and so we're going to need to have but can be run on green hydrogen that represents about 15% of emissions in the economy today so if we want to get at that 15% we're going to need to to to stand up a viable durable green hydrogen industry to get after those emissions between now and mid-century I'm happy to take any questions when we get there but Dan thanks again for the invitation to be here thank you bill that's great misty groves is our sixth panelist and it's very very nice to have you on the panel misty is the vice president market and policy innovation for the clean energy buyers alliance I think this is the clean energy buyers alliance first appearance at an expo I think excellent yes really really great to have you today I am so happy can you see me down here you just barely can you pass the soul yeah I'm in the coveted last spot of a six-person panel at the end of a day thank you all for waking up and listening to my introduction so thank you for hosting this event in person we are honored that you invited the clean energy buyers association to be here today and we were all tasked with telling you the contours of the future energy system working toward that future energy system so what you heard today Mandy told you that will include the built environment buildings and the people and pets that inhabit them Lisa talked about the context record breaking heat with record breaking renewable integration Malcolm reminded us all what hydropower is and what it can be and Ralph I think you hit on something you broadened the context of what the energy system is it is not just the technology it is about the people processes and policies that surround that and bill I think you did an excellent job of bringing us all the way back to the senator's comments at the beginning that this has to be an energy inclusive neutral choose your word that that is what Ira intended so why am I here my job is done I just summed up everybody else's comments because what I hope you actually heard in all those details is that the future energy system is opportunity I know we are going to talk to you about obstacles and hindrances and disagreements and for goodness sakes we're in a Senate building I do not need to tell you what that means but if we don't all agree that the future energy system our future energy system is opportunity we won't get there so it is opportunity how do I know that because I have been sitting on the side of US companies since around 2014 and those companies US businesses without being told or commanded or mandated they have contracted for over 68 gigawatts of clean energy since 2014 these are US businesses not energy companies they produce things services they're demanding clean energy at scale and this is before the trio of legislation that has been passed investing in America before and 68 gigawatts is not even the top that only represents large-scale public investments that does not include rooftop non-public utility tariffs so that is much bigger so that gives you a sense of why I'm sitting on the panel today I'm rounding out the perspective of demand to make this energy future this future energy system possible you may not know who the Clean Energy Buyers Association is this being our first time here so let me tell you just a little bit the Clean Energy Buyers Association has over 430 members they include those large energy customers mostly US corporations but also institutions and industrial energy customers as well as energy providers and all of the other folks service providers that make those transactions possible NGOs and other thought leaders over half of our membership are energy customers and SEBA members are responsible for 90% of that 68 gigawatts I just talked about so we know a lot about corporate demand institutional band and demand in industrial demand and it is a key component to the future energy system and quite honestly realizing the potential of the historic legislation so let me talk a little bit about why they do it because I said it was opportunity and I mean it no mandates and no commands these are voluntary purchases of clean energy so let me just level set I've been in the room with dozens of CFOs and CEOs and all of the other fine people that work implementing the ideals of clean energy of CEOs and CFOs they pursue clean energy because it makes business sense period they do it because it addresses material business risks and because they see legitimate business opportunities that's why they're pursuing clean energy so in three broad categories operations for many US companies energy is the second line item behind payroll for many industrial energy customers that is item number one line item number one for expenses so to decrease and stabilize operational costs pursuing clean energy makes good business sense the second is anticipating climate regulatory environmental risk so US companies generally and companies across the world want to be in charge of their own mitigation strategy before they're told how to mitigate or address risk so this is a wonderful opportunity to set the contours for a company to address all those risks on their own timetable and their own processes and third if you've tried to hire anyone lately as I have attracting talent and keeping it will absolutely be a particular impediment not only of the current system but the future energy system and that means to attract talent to attract investors you need to invest in clean energy so I just want to leave you there as a level setting and finally working toward that future energy system what do we see as trends from my perspective I'll leave you with three we see increased electrification so at SIBA we are not only interested in making sure that the current system is decarbonized but we have an ever-growing power system so we need to be thinking forward on buildings like we talked about transportation what will be electrified and preparing for that looking around the corner the second is decentralization so we will see I think a hastening Ira has incentives to do that it leads to resiliency and reliability and third digitization which I think Lisa actually talked about and I would even call this data access you cannot control what you cannot measure so US corporations are asking for more and better and enhanced information to make good carbon decisions so I see those trends as we're working toward that energy system opportunity I want to leave you with that does not mean we do not have work ahead of us and two of the things that SIBA is laser focused on to unleash the opportunity that is demand of large energy customers market access these energy customers need access to competitively transparently and affordably pursue clean energy and there are large swaths of the United States where they cannot do that and second transmission which is already mentioned here several times today this year we decided to wade into permitting principles as many of you have we see it as a alignment across the aisle and across industry and so those two major barriers we see as unlocking the potential for energy customers for that future energy system thank you again for having me thank you for sticking around and thank you co-panelists for giving me all my talking points appreciate it thank you misty we're not done yet we're going till 445 and then there's a reception so we're we're at the I guess we're on the other side of the home at this point but we still have a ways to go and thanks for the great summary actually because that's a great segue for me into our first question and we have somebody with a microphone I think it's Sydney again so we'll be happy to take questions from our audience you might be asking well before misty summary why is this panel why why compose a panel this big with this different with this mix of people with this mix of organizations and that's because the energy system is big it's diverse it's complicated all the all the things that Ralph said absolutely that's why we have Ralph on the panel it's because he can explain it very clearly the challenges of climate change are also big they're multifaceted they come in different shapes and sizes they'll hit people in different places at different times and that means we all have a role to play or your organizations all have a role to play and so what I'd like to do is Mandy we can come back to you since it's been a little while since we've heard from you I'd like to hear sort of where you see BTO fitting in and Lisa and Malcolm will go down the line where does your organization fit in and how do you work with others are there good examples of how you work sort of across the clean energy sector to ensure that what you're doing has sort of a maximum impact your your sort of a leveraged impact how do you all fit together one of the fun things about joining the organization as I'm getting to learn all these really cool efforts and so something I didn't cover in my earlier remarks but I want to share now is a project a public private partnership that we were a part of at DOE earlier this spring and one of the most advanced communities in in the country actually is an all-electric single-family home that's connected to a microgrid and plugged into South Carolina Southern California Edison's grid and what we found was that the reason people were drawn to the being a part of this project was because of resilience they wanted to be able to watch Netflix and not have to worry but also that they weren't going to you know when you have health issues and you need to keep your insulin cold or you need to be able to make sure you have oxygen you need to be able to rely on your electricity and so this project not only is it delivering on the resilience needs but it's also using 40% less energy than typical homes in that part of California and so I share that as an example on the kinds of projects that we are supporting deployment around not just only in the building technologies office but also in other parts of DOE the state and community energy partnership is where much of the bill and IRA money is getting deployed through and so they're similar to this kind of project they're also trying to ensure that the funding that's deployed is going to be getting on the ground around the country to things that are driving advancement to reach the goals that this panel talked about but doing it for for all Americans Lisa thank you Dan and you know the business council for sustainable energy we were founded over 30 years ago to focus on readily available clean energy and energy efficiency technologies products and resources that's our configuration today and I think that's one of the things that makes us unique we are a pure business trade association I'm very proud to have two board members here on the panel with me Malcolm Wolfe representing the national hydropower association Bill Parsons who's a board member emeritus with the business council with the American Clean Power Association and I have partners here in Ralph's organization and same also with clean energy buyers association so we are we were founded to enact policies to deploy affordable reliable clean energy and that's what we do so I think because we represent the energy efficiency side as well as the supply side plus as we see in the marketplace as I was mentioning before we are much more integrated in our deployment it's and there's a much more system approach both to particular projects as well as to communities looking at their energy management so with all that we are very uniquely situated to be a resource to policymakers I said the last thing that is how we we work we also try to close that gap between domestic policy and policies in other countries and policies at the global level and we've been able to partner very effectively with EESI under the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change Processes so we're working here at home to say we have the technology that's ready to go that's affordable reliable and could address environmental challenges as well as economic challenges and we also try to take that message to on a global scale thank you thanks Lisa Malcolm thoughts about you talked in your opening remarks about how hydro fits in but can you explain a little bit more about um sort of how you work with other you know other sectors so there's the the adage if you want to go fast go alone if you want to go far go together um I think that certainly applies probably to most things in Washington but certainly the the energy sector um you've got to work together it all has to integrate um the more you learn about the the electricity system in particular the more amazed I am that the lights ever go on when I flip the switch um it's you know the number of near misses that that you know nobody talks about are are amazing but somehow it all works together um and I think the uh the academy of engineers I may have gotten that wrong named the the American electricity grid the engineering marvel of the of the 20th century it really does contain so many amazing different parts that all work separately but have to integrate and now we're transforming it all digitizing it making it more user friendly it all has to connect and um I did comment earlier that the hydropower as kind of America's oldest first renewable resource is sometimes taken for granted we're just kind of built into the baseline models and and we move on um and that's a problem because uh we can't be taken for granted we may not be here forever which is why we are active in the business council for sustainable energy and come to panels like this and try to work closely with all of our friends with all the technologies um but it's um there's never enough hours in the day um so let me leave it there Ralph as a recovering engineer when you step back and you look at all the different pieces fit together or what sticks out to you well I go back to the I go back to the comments about how the system is so integrated and that understanding of how each piece uh how each element of the system needs to work together how do you leverage the capabilities that are there how do you bring new set of capabilities to the system as well we talk it's been talked a little bit about the from a data standpoint but it's in these days and times it's more than just data it's artificial intelligence it's machine learning and so how do you bring those things into this mix in such a way that you're going to enhance the ability of the system to be responsive to be reliable and to lower the cost as well and so what I what I'm what I'm struck by is just a sheer complexity that needs to be managed um and to do that within an environment that you know um where we see in so many instances polarization occurring relative to the tension um that we all face so how do we create a shared vision of what the new system what the future system needs to look like in the midst of all of that do we have the ability to harmonize difference so not only are we talking about the difference in terms of the technology but also the difference in terms of how we envision the future and who's going to participate in that future what does that what does that look like do we have the ability do we have the leadership capability to harmonize those differences to create a shared vision of the future that to me is part of what stands out and it and it's a skill set that we all need whether you're talking about the technology or whether you're talking about the people or the policies and the practices that skill set is sort of an underlying skill set that's needed for this entire system to work bill you described your acp's membership it's a diverse membership but it's there's parts of the clean energy sector that aren't part of it so how do your members how does acp sort of view its position uh in sort of the broader clean energy and how do you leverage the work that is being done elsewhere in the sector well so let me first observe that this is a a period of transition and of change and and so just the point of making sure it all works with itself is uh is clearly important um listen i've got you know i've got my customers to my left right i'm a board member here we've got a administering agency from an incredibly supportive and forward-looking administration and work forces here so um i think what i'd like to do with my answer is maybe just give one practical example of one thing that you know we could consider as a unifying it just as an example of a unifying project you we want to work together you got to integrate you also want to find areas of common ground and interest uh we mentioned permitting reform okay um a lot of folks in this room you know maybe climate motivated um i was 15 years up here and actually i ran the renewable energy and energy efficiency caucus for eight years i think there was a period of time when um what was proposed to be built was polluting and therefore it was important many thought to slow it down or to stop it if we are going to tackle climate change it is not only important that we build but we are on the clock it is important that we build fast um this is a transmission we probably need 60 percent build from here in order to integrate and by the way 90 plus percent of projects waiting to interconnect to the grid are clean so we need to have transmission transmission is capable it doesn't it doesn't know the the generation source of the electrons it's carrying um so this can be unifying but i think there's we're at an inflection point where the imperative the climate imperative requires us to move faster than we ever have and we need to think about that together uh to make sure that we don't dilly-dally i'm just reminded one one example the sun zealine was just approved 16 years now the administration has a goal of 80 percent decarbonization by 2030 and and and zero by 2035 we probably need between 20 to 30 long-haul lines to be built between now and then if they all take 16 years to get permitted we're not going to make it that integration that all the generators are trying to supply won't make it and then we won't have the jobs we won't have the cheap electricity and we won't have solve for climate so i just i think about integration i think about the ways that a diverse set of stakeholders can work together for me front and center right now it's not the only example but i would i would use permitting reform as a case study and misty um representing sort of the demand for all of this how do clean energy buyers association members sort of leverage all of this to reduce emissions and create jobs how do you sort of see yourself and your members fitting in yeah thank you i when we're looking to undertake major initiatives the first thing we're looking at is is it doesn't meet our aspiration so a 90% decarbonized us electricity system by 2030 crazy and necessary so that's first doesn't matter to our members and then do we have a unique role and that context changes so if you asked me whether cibo would wade into the transmission and permitting conversation i might say that's for bill to do that's just not true anymore we see transmission now as a fundamental impediment for our members to not only do what i said was their first legitimate business interest manage their operations remember these are companies that employ folks these are companies that produce and they need reliable affordable power so that's first and second to meet their goals so uh i also feel like now is the moment um many of us see the opportunity and the shared opportunity and we simply i can't we simply cannot wait the time periods that we have um in the past to do that so our energy customers our members are aligned the other one that i talked about is having access to markets but i think if i had to choose one for the near term i would i would sign on thanks so maybe we'll make this one a bit of a grab bag um since we don't always want to make misty go first or always won't make mandigo first or last and then first um we our panel opened with some remarks by senator widen he talked about the work he did in the lead up to the ira we also had chips and science act bipartisan infrastructure law all this great stuff um but there's a lot more work to do right Ralph you said i think 131 trillion dollars so the ira was 369 billion dollars the bipartisan infrastructure bill was 550 billion dollars of new spending there's a lot of work to do why is it so important for congress to still be thinking about this and why is it especially important for congress to be thinking about energy policy going forward on a bipartisan basis um anyone like to take a stab at that one i will i will call on you if i have to but bill would you like to go first yeah and i'll be sure because it will just be a follow-on thought to what i just shared so take permanent and you you you put in a challenging but important qualifier on your question which is you know what on a bipartisan basis okay i will tell you with respect to permitting reform um we have now the chairman widehand interesting idea about maybe you know making a permit issuance you know at at some level hinge on carbon reductions an interesting idea to see and and and a clearly analogous with his uh technical credit so we'll see where that goes i i would i would say though that um and i'm sympathetic to the point of view that you know people would like to see maybe expedited permitting provided what what was what was being expedited was clean and you could have more kind of um confidence that there was low downside risk um i your bipartisan qualifier kind of throws a monkey wrench in this i don't as a practical matter uh i'm not sure that i i see that in the offing near term and so the the the different question i think we have to wrestle with is whether something more akin to a tech neutral and i think this can be done responsibly without undercutting uh you know bedrock environmental laws but whether a tech neutral set of permitting reforms which is not limited just to my technologies but tech neutral is in practice better for the shared objectives in this room than nothing at all that's that's the more important question we need to wrestle with because i don't think we're not really at a point where everybody's going to get everything that they want and so the question is what is worth pursuing uh that is short of that ambition because as a practical matter given the political math that ambition is probably not at reach and i what i what i hear from my members and what you've heard from this group is we are we are in the process of energy energy transition the direction that we are headed has been set the question is can we move fast enough to get the emissions reductions we need in the time required so i think um that might be one observation i would share this afternoon um go ahead um lisa made it so we'll go to lisa and then we'll hear from Malcolm i would just take it even at a higher level and what you know why should congress continue to care it's because of what Ralph said it's because of people and communities and we may focus on the environment first we might focus on jobs we might focus on just infrastructure modernization you know to have um the kind of productive lifestyle we want for all americans we need to modernize our infrastructure and the energy system is a critical part of our infrastructure so i think it really does come back at the end of the day to people and communities and that should be a bipartisan basis for continued work in our area certainly agree on focusing on communities and and the climate challenge and and all those needs for um for urgency um but let me highlight an area where i fiercely agree with with bill and acp and an area where where i think we actually disagree just uh uh so we don't have just a total kumbaya party here um you know given the the reality that the electricity system is is rapidly changing um and you know as there's new technologies as innovation we want that change you know we're not you know none of us came here i don't think on a horse and buggy so we need to be embracing the new clean more reliable technologies um that's not going to happen without permitting reform um the permitting process for any technology is is ridiculous um i think i know for for my industry to re-license an existing hydropower facility takes longer than to re-license a nuclear facility um the number of agencies that need to sign off is in that is in the dozens um and if any one of them slows down nothing happens nobody can force there's no process discipline so there actually is bipartisan bills uh in in the senate that are that are moving this way it's a priority for the chairwoman i think things can still get done in this congress i think that hr1 was chosen hr1 for energy permitting because it is an issue where perhaps for different reasons both sides of the aisle see see the urgency um there's certainly a lot of red tape that's held up projects for decades uh and certainly the promise of the bipartisan infrastructure law and the inflation reduction act can't get realized if you can't build new stuff to implement cleaner stuff so fiercely agree on that um i will take a friendly at odds on the on the uh comments on on hydrogen um very excited about hydrogen um really offers an amazing promise to decarbonize sectors of the economy that are much harder to decarbonize whether it's the industrial sector or helping with you know other forms of transportation so the promise of the hydrogen green hydrogen is is great um but i'm not sure that there's uh you know near unanimity on additionality um at least from my association's perspective um if you require additionality you're never going to stand up at the hydrogen industry uh if you have to first build the uh the power plants build the transmission then build the hydrogen facilities we're missing we're missing a critical window um we believe that all forms of clean energy should be eligible as green so if you're zero carbon you should count um we think that's what congress intended when they passed the the provision last year so we don't think there should be discrimination against existing zero carbon resources i don't think that hydropower or nuclear power should be excluded if you can use those technologies to build hydrogen facilities now hey if there's zero carbon that's great let's use them and i think kind of one comparison is electric vehicles you know we want electric vehicles to be put on the grid they don't require additionality before we sell an addition uh an electric vehicle you know we know that 80 percent of electricity sold is under long-term contracts those aren't going to change we also know as bill said that 80 percent of new generation uh is is clean technologies so i don't think we need to delay the hydrogen industry by imposing additional requirements of additionality we're going to get we're going to get there anyway so friendly area where we can disagree mandy i want to take it to the very practical so i gave you an example of an announcement that secretary granholm gave last week in which we are announced many awards to work on building energy kits there's a lot of exciting announcements like that going out i'm curious by show of hands when we put an application out and call for people to say i would like to do cool things with your money uh what do you do you think we get tens more applications that we can fund hundreds thousands so it's definitely in the higher category and these are all extremely deserving applicants ask you to think about the schools that your kids or grandkids or nieces or nephews might go to and the quality they're in or the recreation center where you may swim we have a lot of aging infrastructure in this country and not only do we need to get it up to the standard to be able to exist in high heat days like we're experiencing here uh but also to be able for these facilities to embrace the leading edge technology and so candidly we need the continued support of congress so that we can continue to march through this long list of well-deserving community projects that we're seeing it do we right now but only have a limited amount of funding that we can support misty i don't want to move off the question if you would like anything i i'm afraid that perhaps i missed a signal would you like to weigh in i just want to say at this point no one should abdicate their duties every single body um and congress as far as i know is when it working an incredibly powerful and profound body for producing legislation that can help private investment that can help its constituents the built environment and so we should all be looking for what we can do now and together and um we're here to help in that conversation i'm scanning for questions happy to take question i wanted to go ahead bro please yeah i just wanted to share a couple of reasons why i think it's so important and that to the extent that we can even in this environment that it be by bipartisan number one problems today cannot be solved with the same level of thinking that created the problems we're dealing with the problems we are dealing with by enlarge measure are unintended consequences of the solutions we deployed yesterday and so we have to work and think together about how to solve them that's number one number two if we look at the distributional outcomes in many instances part of the reason why there's not a lot of trust in the system is because people look at the distributional outcomes and think there's something wrong with that there are two things that are needed in order for there to be trust in the system distributional justice and procedural justice and somehow we've got to come together and create that we've got to have a system that creates procedural justice and distributional justice and if we don't do that we're going to continue to see the kind of polarization that we see today thank you um so i have a question that i'd like to ask to build off that so we've you know toward the energy system of the future be clean yes but we also want it to be better right and to your point um we need it to be equitable we need to be affordable accessible to everybody um mandy maybe we'll start with you as the i know do we is putting a huge amount of priority on sort of the equitable distribution of these incentives and things like that but um sort of as we move towards sort of in that journey what are some steps that we should be taking or that your organizations or member organizations are taking to help ensure that when we reach the energy future system of the future that it's a better more equitable energy system um i'm happy to start with you and we can go down through the line unless anyone would just like to hop in well as you're all very familiar with there is the justice 40 requirements with both the bill ira and ira funding and like we started this with i've been a do we know this is my fifth week so i've spent my career working more in the nonprofit policy sector and it's been really fascinating to watch how that named prioritization on these issues has enabled people at do we to really lean into this and think about it holistically think and think about it with great curiosity and so it's been fun and just lovely to now be uh on the inside of do we and to see the authentic commitment people have to figuring out how to embed equity and justice into the work and at the different levels that ralph has just talked about to really think about it holistically and there's also awareness that it's going to take time to evolve uh and to one identify where we've not been um getting it right you know the the unintended consequences that ralph just uh mentioned but then also to think about how we involve a broader set of voices in influencing and advising us on how we design programs so that hopefully we can not repeat those same mistakes and what i will just report to you is that the excitement joy and commitment that i am experiencing for my colleagues it just has been one of the absolute highlights of my early this early time at do we and that gives me hope for the way that we will be able to effectively address this going forward lisa if you'd like to continue we can go down through the line sure i'll be very brief here too but i think it's uh back to again this concept of you know digital solutions and information so one just one of the ways building on some of the things that i've heard before is how do we get information so people can make choices and resources to all communities and when i think about you know my first orientation to the energy sector you know there is a whole socialization well you shouldn't really be thinking what's behind the switch it should be there on demand and it should be very low cost and we shouldn't have to think about anything else well the world we're in today we don't have the luxury on any topic really to just be that dismissive we do have to understand what's behind the wall we have to make sure that we're making the right choices about our own personal energy management but what many communities still don't have is access to information so even though you know the for digital for digital solutions to work you need to have broadband and so when i think about the bills that were enacted in the last couple of years to me i think that is really a game changer if we can get broadband to communities that have not had it we will unlock a whole lot of potential decision-making and knowledge exchange and hopefully that'll be coupled with all of these resources that will be continuing to funnel through from the inflation reduction act from the infrastructure investment and jobs act and you know individual households as well as cities and localities will be able to take advantage of both that information and then those resources Malcolm how what is nha doing to ensure that the energy system of the future is equitable just and inclusive um it's a it's a it's a really critical important question i think the we all want the energy system the electricity system to look like the customers we serve and we're far cry from that the hydropower industry is basically 70 percent white man um the even worse news is that that's better than the energy system overall um not much but slightly so it dwarfs you know it's it's out of proportion um and but you know when you've got all those old white men you know today things are better women are the majority of college students things have changed you know we're going to get there with time no the number of my hydropower industry is heavily engineering focused um and women engineers are still like i was trying to quickly look up the statistic i'm i'm pretty sure it's less than one third of graduates um and people of color it's even less so the problem is really systemic um and we're really struggling with what to do it's an easy excuse to say oh well that's what the college is you know we can only hire what the college is produced so it's not our problem that that's that doesn't cut it but we're really struggling um working uh with veterans groups and and others to try to expand it we've got a long way to go yeah so um the things that we're doing at a to try to um help in um creating a more inclusion greater diversity and that sort of thing is to the point earlier that was just raised you know in our community you have to create this awareness of where the opportunities are um and then you have to we have to put people in front of them that look like them um and that's part of what we do as the american association blacks and the energy is to go back in our community so that our kids see that they can be successful in this industry because what they see is what they'll be and so that's that that at least starts that process of awakening if you will up to what the opportunities are now it's about the support system um it's about providing scholarships internships um it's about providing the the ability to to enter into the workforce in any number of pathways how do we support those things because as i mentioned at the very start all hands on deck we can't afford to have community with talent that is latent that is not being tapped into and brought to the table to help us to solve these issues and so we are we are really focused on how do we partner with others how do we create programs how do we create um um awareness how do we do those things in a way that we can make an impact and honestly our our appetite to make that impact is bigger than our resources right now um and so for those of you that are within the sound of my voice we want to partner with you to help make an impact and remember we have a live cast going so you just told that to an awful lot of people so bill couple quick observations i i feel like this is one of these kind of let let a thousand flowers bloom there's a lot of work to be done here and there are several your multiple levels at which to do it um i know just for my member companies there's there's not one of them that isn't making this priority not you know not even for sort of uh uh baldly noble reasons because it's smart business so we just we just had a our trade conference in clean power no fewer than eight sessions uh on or adjacent to this topic thing one thing two this is a little bit heretical in the in the heart senate office building but not every issue necessarily is going to be exclusively solved by the government or by federal policy i'll give you an example when i was at acor um and this is you know an example of kind of like the thousand flowers blooming we decided we would create a program called accelerate and we invited minority and women entrepreneurs to participate and they got a free membership in acor and got to network and what we when we talked about what they were looking for usually it was like they wanted a shot like they wanted an introduction to somebody who could give them a sub contract on a job or they wanted us to introduce them to one of our finance member companies to see if they couldn't get a loan or qualify for a tax equity investment and so believe it or not we thought about it we're like all right we'll do it like we'll do speed dating we literally got them together for two hours and out of out of that two hour investment for the accelerate members got contracts and or investments and you know is this you know is that like the be all and end all at scale no is it a game changer for those who benefited it is so let's not it be the only flower blooming but that's you know stuff like this can happen now as it relates to federal policy the good news is um the ira actually anticipated a lot of these questions and decided to try to align incentives in a way that's inclusive and inclusivity there's a lot of dimensions to inclusivity right so let's let's let's let's take off a few the way the tax credits are structured there's a bifurcated structure so you don't get full value tax credits unless you're paying prevailing wage and you have an apprenticeship program okay those apprenticeship programs are going to be important ladders of opportunity for people looking for uh high paying high growth careers in the sector uh number two the energy community's tax credit this is incentivizing developers to build in areas that either were historically dependent on fossil generation or extraction that are going away or areas with higher unemployment okay two final credits that kind of work together if we get them right one is the domestic content credit the others the advanced manufacturing production tax credit overtime for uh knowable reasons we allowed our industrial base in this country to become off short i think there's a bipartisan consensus that that pendulum has swung too far uh and for a whole host of reasons we would be better off if we reshored more of the clean energy supply chain zero daylight with the the clean power industry on this point what i will say is and this is good news um i don't know if people are aware there is a manufacturing renaissance happening in the united states right now in the clean energy sector over the preceding seven years there were 18 manufacturing starts announced in the clean energy space 18 in the past 11 months 74 it's a four-fold increase in less than a year and we we're updating these for anybody who wants a great resource congressional staff or otherwise if you go to the cleanpower.org website and just do the forward slash investing in america we we're updating this weekly we used to do it monthly we were doing it quarterly then monthly now weekly because the the data is changing that quickly so really an exciting story there and contributing to the kind of uh inclusive growth we want to see in the clean energy economy misty i think this gives you the last word on the panel now you may answer my question you may say anything else you want i have no recourse you're the last panelists getting to answer the question so give you the last word today wow careful i'll answer your question because i think it's fundamentally important to this transition um and i'll just hit one aspect at seba one of the things we say our transformational pathway to this future energy system is that we intend to use customer driven clean energy to decarbonize the grid for those who can't or won't and as many of you know greenhouse gas emissions also come hand in hand with other negative externalities and communities and so we want to make sure that we are driving demand and policy advocacy for our members to local communities for all hours of every day uh in the dirtiest grids in the dirtiest times that not only that local investment can lead to increased jobs but better health outcomes in those um in those communities as well and so that's all the way up to our strategic plan and embedded into everything that we do um is thinking on making sure that we're driving that demand and policy to help communities so thank you thank you very much um mandy lisa malcom ralph and bill and misty thank you so much for being very good panelists on a very big panel six when we do the survey six might be a little much but you guys were great tremendously good sports and really really interesting points i think they definitely deserve a round of applause thank you so much