 Podcasters roundtable round 156 is video really the best way to grow your podcast question mark. We're gonna find out cuz our guests Think so and we're gonna find out why but if but of course first Dave I won't leave you out Dave Jackson co-host welcome back Hey, thanks Ray Dave Jackson from the School of podcasting com looking forward to tonight's presentation Fantastic. Yeah, you know, you gave a little bit away there. I know we're gonna tease We're gonna do things a little different which I literally just told the guest two seconds ago So, you know, don't blame them if it goes funky. We're messing. I'm messing with the format, but new roundtabler I think so Zach. You never been here, right? Welcome Zach. Thank you. Thank you for having us Yeah, I think this is the first time I was trying to think back, but yeah, certainly had great conversations in the past I just don't think on the roundtable yet. So appreciate you having us on Yeah, and what's your podcast? Although, I mean, I think you guys have the same answer, but maybe not Yeah, we have we have a podcast together called between two mics the remote recording podcast and We celebrate people like the both of you who are moving podcasting forward and innovating in different ways Your experimentation with the format. I think is an example of that, right? And then I have a new personal podcast that I started called crypto art with a friend of mine Lizzie Brozak, who is a yeah, really really great co-host and new podcasters. So two shows now awesome I'm gonna check that out at some curiosity recent curiosity, but rock also new roundtabler. Welcome in What's up? Happy to be here stoked to be with you guys. It's been a long time And then your co-host the between two mics, right? And then I'm not on the crypto art one All right. Do you have another side project? Have you caught the bug? No, so unfortunately I listened to Dave Jackson's advice and I thought about it. You know, what am I gonna give up if I start a podcast? That's what you say, right Dave? So I'm trying to be careful with what I say. Yes, too Person very cool. All right. Well upfront a little disclosure because you guys Like own and run a podcast service or a baby. I don't know is it podcast specific the service Would you call it that or it's really anyone you don't have to have a podcast, right? It's remote recording. Yeah we serve podcasters that's definitely our focus and the community that we love contributing to and being a part of and podcasters kind of interestingly paradoxically maybe The biggest requested feature of our remote recording platform was to add video recording and that's really where We were skeptical of that and had the same question as as the topic of tonight And that's really where we we started to dig deeper and really look at how podcasters are Strategically using videos to grow their show. Yeah, and that's why I say disclosure because they did just recently launch a video component So this this title, you know, of course it might be their thesis, but it's interesting to hear you say you were skeptical But you were hearing from the community and so you guys worked on it And that's been my favorite part of squadcast and what you guys really did, right? I remember I don't know how many years ago. I met you guys But like you guys were in the community it meant you were at the conferences that we were at you were having the conversations With us and you were listening and making changes So we can we can get in more of that later, but I thought it was really cool But today tonight wherever you are we are doing things again a little different cuz Zack and rock they're gonna They're gonna give some of a presentation that I saw somewhere else. That's kind of why I came up with the idea I thought that's an interesting thesis statement about video being the best way to grow your podcast Let's dig in and it came because they had given a presentation about it But Dave and myself and if you're listening live We'll ask questions Following up or present counterpoints. Whatever we'll we'll dig in. I'll try to stay out until that point But drop your questions in the chat now And if of course if you're listening to this after recorded it and you're not live Make sure to go to podcasters roundtable Calm you can you can watch this if you're just listening you can also watch it Because we are gonna do I'm gonna do also do some screen sharing We never do that here. So we are totally shaking it up and You can check that out. Although. I think it's pretty straightforward You don't if you're just listening you won't be left out and but you can sign up for the next time that we are live But let's yeah, let's do that. Let's pop on the screen share. I think if I Switch over to this. Oh, yeah Very nice. So video is the biggest opportunity to grow your podcast So why don't you guys take it away? Yeah, it's a little bit of a little bit of a Backward statement, right? And that's where I think I think where our skepticism started Why why why was this the most requested feature? I mean we had video on squadcast which is a platform that podcasters use to connect with their guests anywhere in the world over a hundred and thirty countries and And record quality remotely from anywhere and we have done that with audio. We're Coming up on five-year anniversary. So we're very proud to have served podcasters for for that long and Yeah, most requested feature was to add video recording. And I think that's really where our research Started into what why do content creators focused on audio want the video from their conversation? That that was where where we started and I think it it was fascinating journey to go on to give you kind of a preface From from what I've learned, but we'll break that down for you here. And that's where I think the deck will help us out Cool. So we'll quickly summarize what we're going to cover today. So first Zach is going to talk about why video? I'm a podcaster and again like Zach mentioned It really wasn't intuitive to us at first but again We're big on listening podcasters. Thankfully are big on talking. So it was a symbiotic relationship Simpatico and then we're going to talk about some of the Channels that we think you can focus on when it comes to using video to grow your podcast So we're going to talk about YouTube. I'll be talking about YouTube and then I'll kick it back over to Zach He'll be focusing on some of the social media activities that we're hearing about and some of the trends and best practices And then we got some free stuff for everybody too. So I don't know if you were Ready for that, but that's something that we always like to give away and then time for Questions, I guess that's from the audience but certainly from from from YouTube gentlemen as well. So Zach Why video we're podcasters Yeah, and What kind of unlocked this perspective for me was was the infinite dial report the Edison research Talks to a lot of listeners and audience members about how they what is a podcast from their perspective? How does that kind of fit in their content diet their worldview of? You know audio video Stories all these different formats that we have As content creators today and I think that the key here is to look at it looking at it from the audience perspective Your podcast to them Your podcast to them is a is part of a larger show with the capital s And that is being made up of you know your podcast your your social media channels your website your email list your YouTube channel perhaps and That is really from their perspective. It's a unified brand And the podcast plays a really big part of that. It's it's kind of the backbone if If I can use that analogy where it's the longest form the deepest you could possibly go on a topic But then there's more bite-sized things right if I'm in an elevator. I can catch a couple seconds of that, right? So That's where you know, that was the key insight take away from the from the Edison research and that habits are Evolving of how people consume the content that we as creators work really hard to collaborate with guests to create is Is very important So if I'm if I'm in one phase of like listening while I'm on my commute or doing the dishes Or walking my dog. That's a that's a different behavior my consumption of that is is different than like a smart speaker or or You know, even headphones while I'm on maybe public transit. So That is in contrast to sometimes I prefer to watch videos where I have visuals of Of like an unboxing. Let's say there's or a review of a product. So that's really where Some podcasters and content creators like create content specifically for different mediums Some podcasters create just the audio And then repurpose it over to video and what we're talking about here is primarily the the actual video not like a repurposed Content, although those strategies are awesome and we've seen people do great things We think that body language and eye contact and it's just higher fidelity a higher level of communication that's added there So basically the listeners habits are evolving always as new platforms and technologies Come and go but but we want to meet them where they're at I think was the is the big takeaway there and they can engage across all these different channels, so podcast the keyword Keyword here. I think is growth when it comes to what podcasters want from their audience and and video Video can really open that up where there's actually new listeners. We're not engaging our current audience, right? So whether or not discover ability is a topic that you want to jump into or not it is just more visibility, let's say and and and greater opportunities to be discovered through that And that really, you know with their habits evolving It also gives them more choices if we're if we're meeting them across these these different channels There's some things I may want to see on Instagram There's some things I may choose to go deeper on if that, you know Little teaser on Instagram pulled me into a two-minute Topical clip on YouTube which pulled me into a second topical clip and at that point I'm so invested that I might as well listen to Dave and Ray go deep on this topic for two hours That's a funnel, right? And that's what I think we're ultimately talking about here is We want to grow and we can make make funnels with our content across these different channels All right, so focusing on YouTube So when we first entered the podcast space or the community and would go to Like local meet-ups here in the Bay Area or attend Awesome events like PodFest or podcast movement like it was already being talked about having some type of presence on YouTube Generally speaking whenever I heard of it people would just do it for SEO purposes and not expect to generate like a lot of views or listens or whatever you want to call it for a podcast on on YouTube, but also The content wasn't exactly the most engaging either you would just have people have like a blank image And it was just the audio of the of the conversation. It wasn't really Didn't really have anything video to it But it but it was more so an SEO play from from my understanding and I heard some success with it But it just didn't seem like it was a big deal What really did seem to change and what really got our Our eyes to open and start taking video a lot more seriously was hearing that there's like basically a new generation of people that are listening to podcasts and they're Oftentimes discovering them on different channels in a place like YouTube is a is a common place to get discovered For a few reasons. They're just there. There's a whole Population if you will that is on there and they're on there a lot But they're not necessarily going to be be finding podcasts on like the podcast Apple podcast app or Spotify or anything like that. So it's really about meeting them where they are and then You know, you can get engaged with them there or you can hopefully get them to subscribe and listen to your podcast and You know, I think it's really about building that relationship what Zach mentioned like starting the top of the funnel so What we've heard work and what I personally like as a as a consumer of Independent creators content is like seeing Short clips. I think youtube has been the data shows that like the attention span for a video watched on youtube is Like, you know around a 10 minute video is good But if you have like a hour long podcast folks are listening to like 75 of that if not the whole thing So it is a just a different use case a different type of behavior patterns that we're seeing so I think like using these clips to Introduce yourself build relationships with these people And get them interested and familiar with who you are And then they'll start listening to your podcast or at least they'll engage with you there And then one other thing that I think that is not like talked about that much with youtube even though I understand why because It can be a little toxic is the comments like the comments are a unique and special place But it does give the creator the opportunity to engage with them Engage with their audience directly and I do see it work with a lot of independent creators But yeah, no denying that there's also some some unfortunate sides of that as well But it's just not something I think is completely talked about enough and again. I do think that there's just videos just a different way to Engage with your audience and that's really what we're going to talk about in social media is really increasing that engagement So Zach talk about the social media activities that we're seeing happen when it comes to video Yeah, and to to pause and preface this slide for a second youtube is a social network and You know a social media platform I don't tend to think of it like that though as just looking inward of my own kind of content consumption habits My own media diet, but it is no question So uh, so we thought that it was uh unique enough to kind of pull out and talk about as its own topic And then we'll kind of lump the rest of social media in here Um in in this slide. So that really comes down to and when we we're talking about social media We're not talking about just um ads. We're not talking about promoted content We're talking while that is fine and part of many great strategies We're talking purely today on organic and uh specifically because the content is uh more shareable Right, that's really where I think that the superpower superpower of social media comes to life Um and and our content can travel farther Um, but you know, this has emerged like thankfully right for humanity like and and it's awesome a unique element of podcast that that I love is Word of mouth is still number one for the for the ways that people just discover podcasts like grateful for that to pause there, but uh, but the Social media has emerged as the the second most popular way, which I think of is just kind of a digital word of mouth I guess like a way that that's happening um Kind of makes sense a little bit more from that perspective At least for me. So that is um, that's that's Huge that's not to be ignored that that um, that that's new momentum towards social media that wasn't always there and um, you know on social media the type of content Is is measurable with the level of engagement that that it gets and that's why facebook has invested so much in videos because Those engage more than images or text or the other forms of content that that we can have uh shared on on these networks um, and audio grams have become very popular, but uh, but like rock said like reading a transcript and looking at the the waveform with a graphic That's one experience compared to the person actually saying what they're what that audiogram is kind of transcribing and putting into a waveform. So I think that This isn't this doesn't have to be super polarized. We can use all of those tools, you know and and headliner Is an amazing platform and I think they have some amazing tools with video as well. So As well as d-script. So I think uh, The this is for every podcaster to kind of test and measure for themselves Like how do my audiograms perform? relative to that like an ab test a b style test where You can have that same video clip of the person actually saying those words versus the audiogram And uh, you know, this is uh, this is emerging insights that we're bringing you today So I'm I'm curious to see that data in action But I'm more so going off of what uh, what facebook and the platforms have Shared about how this different content engages people um I mentioned reach and the travel, you know of of how how far our content Can reach And that comes with tagging sharing Just more people So if your audience is already engaged and you you've cultivated a community for your audience on social media When when you have an organic post of new content And it's engaging like video That is something that is going to be easy for your audience to then share and this topic this conversation today is again about growth So we want new people to get exposed to it And i'm really curious to uh, maybe in a few minutes here hear what both of you think about uh, you know what we've learned about uh facebook adding podcasting to to their platform because That may be you know, the fifth the fifth bullet here. That's just not part of this slide yet But we can speculate a little bit in a little bit um, and I mentioned communities and how you can foster the Both audience engagement and bringing new people Um into that by saying hey, you know, uh, super fans new episode Help help grow the show. Uh, so that this work is more sustainable going forward I love your shirt Dave with uh gen briney's podcast and I know she does amazing. Yes amazing things here, right? So Using this exact strategy So I think that that's really where our community can help us over time We're not just growing the engagement of those people. They can help grow the community overall And that's making it easy for teeing up sharing what you post in in those places So I think that's a pretty good lap around how how video Can travel and help with organic growth on social media specifically In addition to youtube Cool. Thanks, Zach. So to quickly recap we covered Why should podcasters consider video and it's really more about thinking about your audience and Meeting them where they're at and kind of writing the the different trends that are that we're seeing and hearing Rooted in and data too. It's not just anecdotal But we've been hearing it and experiencing it anecdotal just as much as uh, which supports the data and stuff that we've been hearing from Thought leaders like Edison research Then we covered youtube and how you can utilize the power of search and really think of it as like a top of the funnel to Start to build up Growing your audience in a place that uh, maybe isn't looking uh for you know, the the typical podcast apps And then finally Zach showed us about how you can utilize social to you know, create that organic community growth through shareability So thank you very much ray for for letting us run through this presentation again and thanks for watching it And so as a sign of good faith, we uh wanted to offer this 40 off coupon for your audience So if you use roundtable in all caps 21 You get uh up to 40 off For squadcast. So that's up to uh, our base video recording plan. You basically get that for free Um, but but it's up. It's worth up to 40 dollars And that's in addition to the free seven day trial that everyone gets so really just want you Confident and comfortable whenever you're recording your conversations remotely Yeah, man, that's awesome Dave on the ones and twos Great, that's one is it ones with the plural anyways. No, that was awesome. Thanks guys. It's really um, I think We created a new format here Dave. I'm just gonna have people come and present while I don't talk about anything My favorite part. This is a podcast the podcast is I listen to your great content. That's you too did great by the way Thank you very much Really worked hard on this one. Uh, no again. Thank you. I love the uh back and forth I like the presentation style of back and forth. That's fun. And you know, you guys are Thank you our partners and actually the squad cast team as a whole is really cool Um, so there are more people to meet so definitely follow on social. That's how I saw this actually That's just spawned a whole episode just because I follow on on instagram, right? We need to talk about instagram Organic shareability All of this, you know, of course all of this means more work, right? Which is a big thing that comes up when people think about adding another stream or another arm whatever you want to call it to Their podcast, but um, you guys reference the Edison research podcast consumer tracker I think that's what they call it and uh, there's a few some of that Yeah, some of that data I think it just came out because this is 21 2021 that i'm seeing here and so Albin brook who is the same on twitter. I think he's um Buzzsprout, I think yeah Yep, he has a good follow because he he'll tweet these big threads about podcasting So check that out, but he he pointed out a couple things from that research and he's about this specifically He said that Edison research found that 18 percent of listeners cite youtube as the place They use the most to listen to podcasts, right, which is really fascinating because um People are using it like A podcast app, right? So like if you're not there You know, I think that a lot of people Um, maybe even for like a sampling thing Uh, you know, I often talk about social being a great place to sample a podcast YouTube is kind of kind of that way for me too because if we're talking about long format audio You might hook someone once in a while because if your stuff's really good and people sample it And then you just find themselves 45 minutes later sitting there. Um but you know They come and they sample your podcast and then They're aware of you, right? So People using they don't even know they're listening to a podcast So if you're not there, you know, I think someone might think if they're at their maybe on their desktop Like I'll go and look for a podcast sometimes on youtube Just to just to get a sample. Sometimes it's easier. It all depends on our own consumption, right? And this is I think Zach you said media diet, which was which is a cool way to to think about it and Um, some of us probably go on a media diet. Yeah I could probably all do for a media diet I could I could get some of the carbs out of my media diet, but um But you know, he said he also said if you look if you let people pick every Podcast app they use so every app to listen to podcasts the most used listening app is youtube The most use in the survey when you let people choose and you say what do you listen to podcasts on? Most people I think it was 43 percent or saying or it's 48 percent or are saying YouTube which is fascinating. So again, if you're not there, you know, this is what we used to say about Um, itunes all the time you can have a podcast, but if you're not on itunes You're missing out on most of the people who are listening to podcasts like or people who don't have a podcast I sometimes used to always say There is a whole entire ecosystem. There's a whole world a whole search engine that you are not in your content Is not in and that's podcast right back when you're trying to get people to start a podcast and be on itunes You were missing out because itunes need to go there and search and there's a whole world And if you weren't there you're missing out on a large audience I think more and more that's becoming youtube as well um And it but it can be tricky to uh to do both But Dave did you have any immediate thoughts? Well, we have to address um the karmadians, of course Right, there are going to be those people that go. How dare you say that youtube is a podcast because there's no rss feed To which I say when somebody says hey, welcome to the podcast and they're on youtube guess what their audience thinks they're watching a podcast and It doesn't matter if it is or isn't because I know technically no rss feed no podcast get it got it understood it We're content creators. How about that? We're content creators and if you are In a relationship and your partner feels like you don't care Guess what whether it's true or not They think you don't care and that is now the truth So I if a listener says hey, I'm watching a podcast and there's no r it doesn't matter. It's a podcast to them So like let's not get hung up on You know specifics. I'm two ways about that. So I'm a half karmadian half Yeah, new wave. I don't know how you say that because check it out Because it doesn't matter like if someone finds you it doesn't matter if they know it's a podcast or not, right? Do they enjoy it your content creator? Do they enjoy your content? However? It you can have an issue where if you're on youtube only and you're calling yourself a podcast you're saying this I that those say that same research now tells you that like I don't know what the number is but more people Know what the term podcast means than they don't right and we work for a long time to get there It might make me think if I'm familiar with podcast I'm going to then because the whole idea is oh you found me on youtube Cool. I don't really want to watch right now. We're listening right now But now I know it's a podcast. I'm gonna go add it to my podcast player Oh, wait, it's it's not here. What is going on? So It's a little bit of cautious. So you need to educate your audience a little bit Don't just assume like I know people will be like, oh, it doesn't matter what you call it and it's that's true But you are inferring that you are available at a place that you are not If you just want to live in this I have a show and it doesn't matter what word I use So definitely two ways about that and that's not a bad point. Yeah Well, and my thing that always makes me Kind of go I'll be like tuned in and they're like, hey, thanks so much for tuning in today Yada yada, we're gonna talk about this and I'm like, oh man This is gonna be great and then they go and don't forget to subscribe and smash that bell and I'm like, oh, they're not talking to me This is a you and I don't know why I repurpose like yeah, right? We repurpose here. Like I record this Straight up. Yeah, but I don't really but I'm conscious of that, right? I'm conscious of the fact that what we are doing is we are living on youtube As well as an audio That's why it's great that we've uh The the apps seem to have kind of coalesced around a common word of subscribe you know and that is in line with with youtube where Uh, that was a topic we covered on between two mics when when apple was you mean follow Follow follow my apologies. Yeah, so uh, no subscribe. So will you pay us money? Exactly. Yeah, or that too. So it's more ambiguous. Yeah to your point and what what I think is is great here is like Is that this positions the podcast as it's it's an element of your show But it positions it relative to the rest of the content as the highest value deepest dive into This topic, right? And that's where the the rest of the formats like short clips or um, you know audio grams and screenshots of you and your guests Recording on squad cast like those are all little, you know higher and higher value Or they you could roughly map them to like the amount of attention people have to engage with that content And we want to earn that attention for the deepest dive of you know, the the long form interview and Uh, even shows that I love that I that I am you know, uh subscribe to and support is um I I don't always uh, I don't I'm not always familiar with the guest, right? So that's where I tend to like sample an episode where I'm like, okay I'm kind of on the fence about this three hour long commitment But I got like five minutes for the most watched clip out of this conversation And see how I like it from there to fully engage when I have more time I can invest more deeply into this relationship with this creator You know, that's just me looking inward with my own behavior But it sounds like we're all a little different here and that's fascinating part of this as well Well and and re you brought up time and to me If you can record in video You've now given yourself the most options available Like if you have somebody there to edit the audio and the video And for me the one that I always kind of I I am not a huge fan of audiograms Because when I hear what people are doing to make an audiogram Well, like I had to listen to this You know 40 minute podcast and then I had to find the perfect 13 seconds And then I had to figure out which squiggly line to put over it And did I and like all of a sudden I'm like is there any way to track how much traffic you got from that and the answer is No, and I'm like, how about how about you just fire up? A video camera and go hey on today's show We talk about is video The new way to grow your audience Boom done. There's your audiogram put it out there. It doesn't take, you know, it takes what five minutes to make that Because that's really all you need is hey, here's how you're going to benefit when you listen to this And uh, so I'm not a huge fan of audiograms But I could see where a a short snippet of a video could definitely grab people's attention more than Ooh, it's a green squiggly line this week last week. It was yellow You bring up a good point because I have here in my notes that it is hard to measure The success right so if your goal is okay, I'm gonna do a video component. I'm gonna do an audiogram For the goal of growing my audience what we're talking about Um It's hard to measure that right so you could look at your youtube analytics and see you got 200 views Do you add that as a listen, you know when you really you know the good thing about youtube Is you can see that 70 of that audience dropped off after five seconds Okay, cool. I scooped up a 30 percent like I might have captured one and that's actually a lot of times enough Right, but you don't know if they went and subscribed to the podcast So you don't know so sometimes it can be hard to put in that extra time If you're only doing it for that reason, I think that I don't know What we're doing here is what you said, Dave. We're recording the podcast Via video and it just goes after this. It's if people want to watch We don't have anything to show them, but we're also on youtube So that whole sample thing, you know zack you talked about checking in to hear from your guests if they just want to see and Sample what the squad cast guys are like They could they could jump in here and you know what I find myself doing With podcasts and video lately is I just I'll click right to like three five 14 minutes in I'm skipping it because I know the front is just loaded with stuff. I don't need right. So that's also something to consider Um, especially if people find out. Oh, I missed stuff right up front and they go back Like that does happen, you know if people just cut to the content, which I'm a big advocate of but Yeah, measuring success is is hard. So You know if you You know a lot of times people have a hard time just getting the podcast done But I think you know one way to is to batch that right do things Dave what you're talking about the audiogram I just hit a marker on my roadcaster pro. That's not an entry level piece of gear, but There are different things pencil and paper doesn't cost much Take note. That was a gem that my guest said at 1354 Go back. I produce podcasts where I just do the recording and I I capture stuff like that So, you know, it is a bit of uh, you know Juggling three things in the air at once, but that's what we do is podcast. Well, and when Zach was to Go ahead I was just gonna say you guys bring up a good points that it is much more It does add work, especially in the post-production part But we just we we're recording platform and so to Dave's point We just are allowing them giving them more options to do more with that that content So they spend an hour in their interview now They have video files to work from but you're right and not to have a big can of worms with the the tracking but it blows my mind with how much influencer dollars add add dollars are put into uh Influencer marketing and it's so much less trackable than what we got in podcasting, right? And like just I blows my mind guys Well and and Zach made a great point when he was talking about social And he said I forget what like the the you know imaginative post was Hey, we talk about this and then he said share this with like that's really what your social is for Because when Ray and I say hey, guess what episode 777 is out people go. Yeah, we know you've silly podcaster But really what you need to say is hey Episode whatever is that where we talk about such and such share this with your friends because that's really what socials for Is to I mean the whole point of this Why do I want to go to youtube because there are people over there that have no clue who I am So if you can get your audience To share it with people who like your stuff, but they don't know it yet That's really the the key of of social so and I I have found in the little bit that I play ray plays a lot more on youtube But I I have a channel that I I play with and I was amazed that when somebody signed up for the school of podcasting And I said how did you find me and I said they said youtube and I was like oh cool And I said so you've listened to the podcast and they go well I do now like they had no clue I had a podcast and I was like and so I think there is a bubble of podcasters that That love mark maren and adam corolla and the dude from this american life whose name I can't remember And then there are other people that like are all about cutie pie and all the other and they don't know each other So if the goal is to get in front of people who would like your stuff that don't know you yet Why not youtube I have that in my notes too because podcast on youtube Help people who weren't searching for your podcast right there people are watching They're not i'm not looking for a podcast right i'm looking for The thing I searched for or i'm looking for the thing that you i'm watching another thing that youtube says this thing is like the other right So someone's watching dav Talk about how to monetize their podcast on youtube and right along the side is podcasters round table We did we did an hour and 25 minutes on the same topic now The youtube algorithm doesn't typically show you the same exact thing, but that's a whole other thing But again people are They're not there looking for a podcast or what we're defining or what is typically defined as a podcast, which is something that is You know found in apple podcast or spotify or something that's not on youtube right so it does Give you the opportunity To be found That's what interests me about what facebook is doing because it sounds like it'll be something similar where folks don't even necessarily They're not looking for a podcast They might not know that they're listening to a podcast, but they don't have to leave the facebook ecosystem They can continue scrolling and looking up whatever they're looking at but still somehow finding this this show right so Um, I'm interested in it. I'm not saying it's like good or bad for podcasting But I do think it is interesting At least it has a chance now because I used to laugh When again people would obsess over my shows not and it's not playing on facebook And you would have to convert it for a while to convert it to a video just to play on facebook And you'd go in and if you got to 10 seconds It was like wow you must have a really good tense because nobody because we go there to scroll and oh Look at the niece in the kitty pool great and you're still scrolling So now that if this stays in place while we're scrolling We might actually give more than 10 seconds. Yeah, which is like tech. We've seen Five years ago or you know, some people have a player where if I go to another page I don't lose the podcast it just sort of minimizes to the bottom And I'm I'm saying welcome to the return of rss graffiti. That's throwing it way back I don't know if anyone remembers that little plug in for facebook, but it put a player On facebook how novel and then they were like nope facebook has dipped their toe or danced around podcast I'm out on facebook I really don't live on that platform anymore just because word up they just don't seem to do Anything well, I mean video Exactly what you're saying dave is that no one watches like the video stats on youtube are just Terrible but again We're at the grocery store. We're checking out and whoa look that's a piece of candy I want right like It's just exposure, right? It's a billboard and that's really the only goal is to be like, oh, I had no idea There was a podcast about podcast. I just started podcasting probably should check in on that right and that's that's all that's that's the That's all I'm hoping for and if it becomes more than that now. I don't think it was um It might have been rock you were talking about um the comments and you know No comments on podcasts is something I why not? Why can't I comment on a podcast in my podcast, but why can't I like a podcast like yeah Oh listening like oh, that would be cool. I how this doesn't exist in podcast apps already is beyond me, but The difference, you know with youtube, you know as the social As a social platform because you can Talk to the person who's watching your video and I have yeah youtube comments are infamous for being terrible um heaven forbid you're a female on youtube because I just the it's just terrible comments, but Filter all that out right like look for something that's that's constructive and then And then have that conversation just it lends itself for someone to immediately respond And we'll get a couple comments on this and it's funny because dave mentioned that I Dabble in youtube and definitely have been on youtube over the years Also, if you want to make more money than podcasting probably youtube is better But that's another conversation completely that's like that's some bait so we can have another Around where people actually come back. Ooh make money. Yes. Make money um But this show I used to blend this show with that channel And what was really cool is that people were watching my channel for I don't do it wasn't a podcast It was like gear review cameras audio all that stuff. It was podcast related. I've watched a bunch of those yeah, thanks, man, and But people would see the round table and they'd be like, oh, I'm a listener now They had they're like I had no idea you had a podcast. I did a mix minus video which was one of my biggest videos And I I went to podcast movement and I'll never forget I get an elevator and And this was when I just released it and someone's like, oh, you're that dude who did that mix minus video I was like, yeah, and I'm at a podcast conference and he knows me for youtube Something's going on right like something's going on. I've had a podcast about podcasting for years You saw the video and that was your entry point. So Something to consider, you know, it makes me think about the question What do you think is the best way for a podcaster to Get into youtube or use youtube for me I like the sort of idea that you pull out something valuable from your podcast Especially if it's visual and bring that over to youtube because that's gonna do when you help people answer a question A lot of people use youtube as their default how-to guide, right? If you can do that On youtube and and it makes sense to cross you know cross promote with your podcast Which by the way you can put links that pop up and you can link to your podcast and listen to this episode That's relevant whatever That for me is my favorite way But obviously we do this all of these rounds go to Go to youtube and again They're going to get listened considerably less or viewed less than the audio only but If it brings in one or two more people it's worth it and we're recording here. So it's not extra work at all What I'd like to add as well is the the element of ownership, right? This is where We're not saying hey go be a youtuber and stop being a podcaster, right? Like there is But there is there is a question of ownership when it comes to publishing to A free video hosting platform or facebook, right? And that's where that's where podcasting being a Distributed, uh, you know ecosystem. I think is is an actual asset here And it's what empowers us to have this show and then when we work out brands with uh, sorry workout relationships with brands Like we are a media company as a podcaster And and and actually retain the intellectual property and the ownership of that and I don't I'm not I'm not tied to This platform if I if I get de-platformed or something like that, right? I don't have to worry about any of those concerns, right? And you have this, uh, you have this website You have this email list you have this own your own community And it's more distributed than just kind of all your eggs in one basket Which I think a lot of youtubers have have kind of run into where their their eggs are in that basket And it's a double-edged sword it works against you if you want to leave that environment, right? And that's where I think having both is the move here the the strategy to uh To all the points we've made about engagement, but also for the the perspective of ownership Yeah, and I have I have in here. What about video podcasts youtube killed the video podcast star I mean, we're talking about video. I certainly don't put this In an actual podcast feed for a video podcast like I haven't even gone to that section for years I wonder how alive it still is that said I at work we produce podcasts and if I put a video Into that feed. I mean it was popular years ago. It still gets a lot of A lot of downloads a lot of listens views whatever you want to call it um, you know, we we use Video and youtube synonymously, you know, it's the same thing Kleenex And even though it's not Kleenex, right like same term, but You know, we've talked about video on On social which I think is a little different at least that the way we presented it's a little different in that You have to create something different Whereas we have phoenix edge here in the chat and and he says or gee, I don't know Our podcast is a video and audio and it is it is much easier to share As a video they found so the platforms are or just make it More consumable or more easier to surface it more in the algorithm. Yeah Yeah, and and how gore ray Ray, where's the share button on youtube? right What do you know? I mean go ahead and answer that It's everybody knows bottom right hand corner, right? Okay. Well, no you share more than I do okay And then where is it in apple podcast? Um, yeah, it's it's because I went to share one in overcast the other day I was like, well, I know there's one i'm it's in it's on the screen somewhere And it was finally in the upper right hand corner, but took me a second But man youtube it's like oh click click right there And then you can pick what second you wanted to start at and blah I mean I share all the time and I just thought That's another thing. I think people are familiar with you know Subscribes smash the bell and you've got everything in that bottom right hand corner want to share it. It's all right there And uh, that's key. You want people to share youtube's are good at one thing and that's telling you what to do And you know, they're doing that because the analytics show when you actually tell people How to do the thing they do the thing right a lot more and that's the algorithm training us as creators I think right the bot says when I say these words you do this thing pavlock right like But it works and it's it's uh as a creator. It's a struggle because you're like, I don't want to say that and stuff But you know as podcasters, I don't know if we If we ask the audience to do as much as as maybe they do on youtube and I don't know if it's it's probably a difference of platform as well like youtube you are uh you are of yours You're at the mercy of the algorithm, right? Whereas a podcast if I publish episode 155 Guess what's going to show up in your feed next 156? Not on youtube. I mean I subscribe button on youtube I actually think that that's a like button because yeah, well youtube's only going to show it if it's makes sense And what what got me about that is I went in one day into youtube to see like what I was subscribed to And it was this humongous list and I was like good stuff. Well, I forgot about that. Yeah, I do the same thing it's it's kind of funny and uh Is uh is one of the things that that I was thinking through when we made this presentation It's like well how I use those subscriptions on youtube is completely different How I and I use them in a podcast app and I also think it's good to your point ray That each one of these listening apps. I mean you mentioned overcast av like, you know pocketcast You name it a spotify apple a lot of options there and each one of them is going to have their own You know equivalent to the the youtube capital a algorithm that people like to talk about so much that recommendation engine Each one of those there's like, you know, I don't even know you you might have a better idea than me How many options there are ways to listen to podcasts? I just discovered good pods And and got my account set up on there and they do have a way to like and share that stuff which is fantastic work and and I think that That's really where it it kind of starts to Starts to give us that that experience of like, all right. Well, I'm I'm going to like Subscribe over here or or listen over here that recommendation algorithm To surface that content to you those recommendations is going to be different in overcast versus pocketcast Right and and that's a good thing from an audience perspective where we're not tied to This one company and what we think the rabbit hole is today Absolutely Kind of unrelated, but it was crazy to see the difference in like, uh, I mean you're familiar with this dave because you work at Lipson, but like the difference between Lipson uh users, uh, or actually podcasts that are hosted on Lipson, uh being more uh popular for like podcasts apple podcasts versus like Westbrout did they say that their Their data was skewed heavily and Spotify. That was a pretty interesting, uh, hullabaloo Well that and especially because we're both iab certified right so you're like Okay, yeah, that's that's one that will probably get solved by james cridlin, which is that i'm like I know he's already done to I was reading. Yeah, that's what he comes from so What you're referring to is this sort of the consumption habits of the people who are That's it. Yes Uh, using different hosting platforms, but that actually would be the podcast I mean Well and and tom webster brought up the potential reason for that Is Lipson's been around forever and in the early days it was apple podcasts for the win Yeah, so it might be and and not that buzz brought is you know a baby But they've been around in less time and maybe their audience is a little younger Or they have new listeners or whatever and they're all about the Spotify So it's it's hard to say on that if it's something is You know a skew on the back end or is it just listener differences or whatever. So it's hard to say I did have another word written down here that I wanted to to um Zach brought up tagging and this is an audio or video thing if you mention congressional dish on a podcast when you post this you should probably at Jen briney on twitter to say hey, we're talking about you over here and that's Yeah, and especially if it's uh, you know microphone company or you're talking about Freedos or whatever you never know tag that company and They might share it then that's a a free easy way that takes all of two seconds to look up What is the twitter thing for free dole? You know and then you uh put it in who knows, you know, I've known people that have been retweeted by Marketing companies that have millions of people following them and they're like, ah, didn't know they were going to do anything But holy cow just got retweeted by the bisco or something and you're like what like yeah, so that's that's an easy one Don't forget to tag people That's totally cool. Dave. Yeah easy. We talk about people like her all the time and uh, we should be giving them more credit It's like you got a name drop here and uh, if you want to share then that's a cool relationship. Yeah, I mean, I it's always, you know Listening to podcasts about podcasts making one, you know, you listen to the other ones and once in a while you'll hear a shout I mean Dave has been so kind and mentioned this show or my other show so many times and it probably has since and maybe I Haven't heard that episode, but it's always like this Any podcasters like amazed when they're mentioned on another show, right? So they're pretty likely to share You know, again, this is something you probably You can reduce friction of doing this if you're able to Take those notes or you know, this is where co-hosts really help out, right? Because if you're conducting an interview You know, Dave often will drop a link in the comments or something, right? And so if you can You know divide and conquer on that right if you can just get a note I find that taking notes during recording is so if if you can do it Is so absolutely helpful when it comes down to the after stuff, which is the worst stuff that recordings the fun part So yeah, I couldn't agree with you more about having to co-host it There's so many benefits like that and uh, that's what I enjoy about our podcast between two mics is we can Vibe off each other and you know, of course always highlighting and making sure the guest is is put in a good good perspective You just gave me a good idea there to Ray like I'm curious if there's any shows out there Let us know in the comments like if you do have a co-host Maybe you you made the point earlier that adding video is like, you know It's it's an amount of work that you want to be mindful of adding to your workflow So I wonder if there's any creators out there who one of the co-hosts Takes care of the audio and the other takes care of the video You know, I'm curious if that's a way to kind of break up the work and distribute it across even small teams like that But that is something that and one that's actually one of the reasons why we were skeptical of people asking us for video recording On the squad cast platform was like, are you sure like that's a that's a non-trivial amount of work, right? Like lighting camera like storage That's that's a heavy lift. So are you sure and you know, we we heard that enough times and had enough of those conversations where it's like Okay, I think I think we get it here and and this is a strategic thing that doesn't necessarily mean Oh, podcasters are becoming youtubers now. It's just uh, it's just a new venue for us to grow our shows Although Ray and I funny stories about our customers who were like now I got it now I got to figure out what to do with these video files. It was so funny Very rare though. Thankfully Sorry, Ray and Ray and I do is we buy our makeup in bulk and then he gets half and I get the other half I thought you were born with it. It's Maybelline No, it's not unless you're sending money. It's not Yes Well, let's uh, make sure that they can sponsor the show. That's right. So you don't have to pay for it Maybelline we have what we it's it's a literal lottery ticket You tag these companies and what you want is that you want the tired burnt out marketing person Who's like they mentioned us retweet retweet. You're like, whoa catch them on Friday afternoon catch Friday Make sure you line up those tweets at the right time and you get that get that social media marketing person heading out the door for a three day weekend we uh Two things we kind of approached and probably split off on was the what about video podcast And I think when we talk about youtube and youtube is is sort of an easy entry point is because and I think Zach you might have mentioned is because of its free nature, right? So hosting video can cost a lot of money and a lot of the really kind of killed video podcasting because there I was a few hosts early in the day that would I mean early in the day early in the uh In the history of podcasting that would host for free and that was a good way to um You know get a a video onto online and put it in rss feed youtube does not do that Like we've talked we've probably dealt with that one day forever Like can I host my video podcast on youtube and they don't give you access to the mp4 file and whatever all the technical stuff But it's you know not a podcast for that reason or not a podcast host So it does cost money and in the past we've recommended. Oh, you know Put the sd version on itunes and then the hd versions on on uh on youtube or something like that, but um It's just a real barrier to even getting stuff into I'm on a pc so I pulled up itunes because it's still here And they used to have a section for video Like you'd be like here's podcast and then it'd be like oh here's video stuff Like I think there are two different tabs one was for audio and one was for it I don't see anything here for video. So that doesn't mean it's not possible You know you can make one and it'll play it but it just becomes those files are so huge that It really becomes expensive to host a video podcast on a You know buzz sprout lips and blueberry whoever you're going with so I mean And most people just go with youtube because well, it's hard to beat free. It's free. Yeah. I mean it might be opportunity. I mean Zach's crypto is crashing. It's time to buy right but so like what I'm saying is that if people are out if if if If the pool of available content On apple podcast for video podcast is not there. Maybe you find an audience a lot less competition I don't know something to try, you know, this whole like try it. Let us know check the numbers, you know, I like I don't know. It was exactly talking about You know, you got to try it for yourself and see what was that related to was it to audiograms like different AB test like the same video of the speaker Versus the audiogram of that person saying the same thing I'd be real curious to see that data the theme is the theme is hard work Like none of this is easy like I'll just make a video and now I'm in front of a bunch of people And I grow my podcast, but I mean anyone listening to this show They're already the type of person that either knows that or is willing to do it because they're listening to a podcast about podcasting So you're the audience. We don't have to say, hey man, it's hard work. Everyone knows it's hard work um, but you know, there are different things you can do I think to Cut down on the barrier of Doing something like adding video and that's what we're doing right here now. Is it the best for A channel will youtube show it to anybody because it's talking head and probably not but um Then you evolve from there. Is there a next step that you can do? You know to do is it better if we cut out one piece share that on social Is it better that we do something different? Maybe we might have to Dave could get Dave and I could get on here on a wednesday And record something very specific and intentional for video All right, like maybe we show a piece of gear that we use on the round table and we review it Like there are things that can be done and we can do that. We could do that via You know live We're doing it on stream here right now. I'm not sure that that's really a competitive product But when is the squad cast gonna let me live stream? uh video We uh, we actually just I did a poll in our in our community about that and the the reception for that was actually Very very low And I was surprised to see that absolutely different. Yeah, absolutely different. I still why do you think that is I think there's a use case there and also we have some Uh unique opportunities unique experiences coming into the platform that are going to empower audience engagement and potentially monetization So we want we have some experiments that we want to run there But it is uh, it is just I think it comes down to how do you want to engage with your audience? Where do you want to engage with your audience? Like where is your audience? If you have one already is is also a big factor Like if you have a huge community and following on twitch, then you're going to want to broadcast outbound to twitch But you know, uh, if you could invite those audience members to a unique experience behind the scenes of that conversation Being recorded without sacrificing the quality of the recordings like for post production and getting the content out there You know, I think there's uh, there's multiple ways to look at how do we engage with our audience? Like while we're in the process of recording and uh, we have some great ideas there and learning from the community that we serve Interesting got my got my wheel spin and so Phoenix edge again says I have two co-hosts who live in different states and we tried splitting things up But it was just easier for me to do the audio and video But they help with twitter and sharing and it's you know, zack plenty of jobs to be done Yeah, yeah, I mean it's funny how someone does sort of default as I'm the producer, right? Like I do the things you're the co-host and I do the things now Dave you have Probably several co-hosts over the years. Do you find that? It's different because you're talking to people who typically are podcasters So it's a lot different but you know the splitting up of of uh tasks It does seem like it's well you wanted to start this podcast you do the thing and I'll just join in That's kind of it and it's it's I know with uh, Jim on ask the podcast coach He's like I will show up and talk and you get to keep all the money and I was like, all right That sounds like a good deal. So beautiful. Yeah, can you sign this form? Please make sure he signs the form Okay, we repeat that every year. We like are we still in the same deal and he's like yep I'm just talking and you're like renewal because yeah Because behind the scenes I'm doing all the editing and the patreon and all the other fun-filled stuff So he's fine with that so And you need and you need to do that on a regular basis touch base. Are we still good? We're good. Okay, good So, oh no, I thought I was making money now. Nope, you're not. Yeah, it says it right here. You signed it Wait till that Spotify money comes Dave. You'll see that's right Right facebook you're gonna be looking for original content or that. Yeah original content All right, I can feel the train going off the tracks, which is the perfect time We hit the we hit the hour mark. That was awesome. Again, I think we've created a new format Dave We can just bring people on to present and listen. Yes questions I like it. Maybe we'll actually make it to round 200 this way pioneers Thanks for letting us be part of it and great. Awesome. Yeah Well, let us know like if you have anything to add that I cut you off from Bring that up. Otherwise, let us know where we can find typically your podcast But you can give the the squad cast url, but uh, zack again. Thank you man. Thanks for uh, presenting. Thanks for Coming on here and for your first time and of course Once a round table or always round table so welcome back. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, it's been a real pleasure You can subscribe to the show. We mentioned it between two mics Or crypto art if that's a new fangle thing that you're interested in checking out And yeah, you can find all things squad cast resources wherever you're at to help with your remote interviews at squadcast.fm Very cool rock. Thanks again, man. Thanks for joining in presenting first time Yeah, thank you. We're big fans of the show and I honestly I think I discovered the show on youtube So i'm one of those freaks that found you the uh, the weird way But uh, it's it's really cool to be on the show. Thank you ray and thank you turns out more people than we knew We're finding Podcasts on youtube, right? So interesting numbers there. It's really cool People were pretty stoked in the chat. So you guys did a great job. Paula's picks. That was great Oh, thank you. It's just a killer I wish I could talk back to them Phoenix, you know, this this was a fun, but I can't do this on audio I mean we are doing it in the audio podcast bringing in the guests, but the guests can't participate now This is a live stream, right? So um, and you know live stream It is for the power fan, right? So Everything has its own use use case. We're using it to record the video, but also be live so we take care of a lot of things at one shot here, but uh The only thing we have left to take care of is Dave Jackson. Thanks, man This has been fun. Uh, everybody knows I'm a big fan of Squadcast and I don't want to name any names, but I was interviewed twice this week on another platform And in both cases They had problems. So, uh, that's why I like squadcast But yeah, you can find me at the school of podcasting Dot com and don't forget, of course use the coupon code round table all capitals 21 when you go to squadcast Dot fm and uh, you'll get 40 dollars off and ray will be happy Yeah, and the squad cast guys will be happy as well. I think the squad cast guy. We don't get a piece of that No, we can figure something out. We can figure something out. No, I don't want I I'm I'm happy to Present the opportunity for you guys. We should grow because you guys are doing the right thing. So Uh, congrats, and we will uh, you know, we'll see everyone who's here and hopefully new people next time If you are not here, you want to be podcasters round table dot com Slash guest you can get you on to the round table and you can also watch us live um, if you're if you're around at the time and uh, that's it We will see you for the next one. We will make it to one. I can't promise that Maybe we'll make it to 157 stick around. We'll see find out. We have good. Bye. See you