 Welcome to Talk Story with John Whitehead. As usual, we have another interesting guest this afternoon. We have with us Joe Cahill-Louis. Cahill is the CEO of an organization that's committed to Hawaiian advancement, Native Hawaiian advancement. In fact, it's called the Console on Native Hawaiian Advancement. Welcome, Joe. I mean, Cahill, you've been here before. Yes. Thank you. You're driving me back. Yeah. Well, you know, I wanted to catch up with you because you've been doing quite a few things. In fact, recently CNHA had a convention. It was called the Native Hawaiian Convention. Yes. It was almost every conceivable issue that one could find in the Hawaiian community was discussed or had played some part at the convention. Yep. So tell us a little bit about what you were trying to do and what happened and the rest of it. Sure. Last time I was on the show it was almost a year ago. All right. I had just started in the role as CEO. Yeah, so this is a year later. This is a year later. Yeah. Welcome back. One year in review. Okay. So yes, we just had our annual convention on about 1600 Native Hawaiians were registered and attended. We covered a number of different issues from Mauna Kea all the way to community organizing to policy issues that are facing Native Hawaiians. Basically, it was our think bank area to figure out how we want to go forward. Not necessarily depend on the system, but how do we solve problems amongst ourselves, Native Hawaiians, that we can go forward? That was a premise of the convention. Well, you know, one of the most interesting, I guess, discussion that I had the privilege of being there was this, there's a discussion about economic development and how Hawaiians could be a help in developing their own, I guess, enterprises. Tell us a bit about that, because that's kind of unique for your agency in the sense that you really work on a much broader field. Yeah. If I had to summarize what we do, it's more of a facilitator convener role. So we're an intermediary as well. What that means is we bring people to the table, resources to the table, and we find solutions to address a number of problems. So as it relates to economic development, you know, oftentimes networking with one another, identifying challenges and barriers that face businesses can be your actual answer to solving problems. So in this case, bringing Hawaiian businesses together to talk about what barriers they are facing and overcome and have overcome, right? Yeah. So the barriers they're facing and identifying solutions collectively to navigate them is very much a part of what I see our role is doing. So convening, facilitating discussions. I don't think I was in that room the whole time. So I don't know all the answers but you do. One of the interesting things about it was that you actually seem to either facilitate or make loans to Hawaiian businesses. In addition to our role as facilitator convener, CNHA is also a loan fund. So we operate a loan fund. We loan money to native Hawaiian businesses, whether they're incubators or they're micro enterprise businesses or they're small businesses, we lend them money. Oftentimes capital is the key to helping them open the door to a bigger market. Of course, we don't just give our money to anybody. We work with them to make sure. What is the criteria? Well, you've got to be a small business owner. You have to have a business plan and the business plan has to make sense. It has to work. We review all of that. You have to have cash flows that make sense and allow you to pay off the loan or pay back the loan. But we also help you. If that's not the case, we work with you to help strengthen your bond. That's the plus, right? That's what you add on the whole... We offer technical assistance to our small businesses. So we don't just give them money, we make sure they're successful with our money. How many businesses out there... We've lent about 128 native Hawaiian families to support their growth and development. We have $5 million that's revolving right now. So the money gets paid back. It goes to the next Hawaiian in line. Let me ask you a controversial question. Hawaiians have, I think, personally, I think gotten a bad rap for making these types of loans and not paying them back. Maybe not just Hawaiians. It's just small business people in general. Because it's tough out there. Let's face it. What's your... The key to that is oftentimes servicing the loan. You don't just give someone the money. You work with them while they have your money. You check in with them. Sometimes you have to be creative. You have to reconstruct the loan. For example, one of our business owners this month asked if they could defer their payments for a couple months. Sure, no problem. If it means a greater success for your business, then sure, what they needed the money for was to reinvest during the holidays so they had more inventory. It's about having products that make sense for your business. Not just, here's your business. Here's your payment schedule. If you don't, we're going to send... This is not welfare, in other words. The people got to put out and show that they're serious. Sure. And you got to have a system that allows them to succeed. It's not just black and white. You got to be flexible. So we have products that we change sometimes to accommodate the economy. So it could mean if a business owner is struggling, we suspend their payments for a few months. Whatever the circumstances may be, you as a loan fund have an obligation to support their long-term success. So we are flexible. Most banks are not. Right. And so your default rate is... Much less. So you would think it's higher because we deal with higher risk borrowers, but because we service the loans much more frequently than the business, the banks, because we follow up with them. Much more personally. It's much more. We know our borrowers. We know them. We know where they're at. They know where to come to us. We have a relationship. So that's the difference between us and your traditional bank system. And that to me has equal to greater success in the way we land. Well, you know, it's exciting because, and I don't, you know, I don't want to make comparisons, but you seem to be the state of Hawaii through its Hawaiian Homes program. And also, I guess, the as the state of Hawaii and the Office of Hawaiian won't do loans to individuals, but they haven't been having the success you have. Well, I've been trying to tell them, give us the money. We would lend it out, you know, because at the end of the day, they're state agencies. We all know state agency, what they do best is bureaucracy, right? They go up and down the pipe and they still can't figure it out. Right. But they know they have to go up and down the pipe. And they got all the money, too. So, you know, so they are just not set up, in my opinion, to support the situation facing our beneficiaries, our native Hawaiian community. And, you know, they're like for OHA, they have resources, they match resources with ANA. So, they're regulated. So, they're not as flexible as are what we call a CDFI, a Native Community Development Financial Institution. So, they don't have the flexibility that we have. They're also state agencies, procurement, all that stuff. The process, it goes through their accounting division, which they have, you know, rings to go around. Well, that's a great idea. I mean, here's something innovative for them, for people who are listening to consider. And that is, why not, in a sense, what you are is the private sector? So, why shouldn't these agencies use native Hawaiian private sector initiatives to get more economic development? Yeah. Well, we're working on it. We're working on some interim things for the Department of Hawaiian Homelands, maybe helping them package the loans, so that that portion of the work is not have, and doesn't go through them. We package it for them, and then they just review and approve. We're trying to find ways to make it happen. They're not, it's not that they're closed to the discussion. It's just, it don't move as fast as I want it to move, because there's need out there. People need access to money, and things are just not happening fast enough for them. So, tell us what else you're doing to improve the economics of, for native Hawaiian families. By the way, who qualifies as your beneficiary? Native Hawaiians. Our primary audience is native Hawaiian, so that the no blood quantum requirements, as long as you're native Hawaiian, we can service you. We also service non-Hawaiians as well. Really? Well, non-Hawaiian comes to our office. We're not going to say, no, we're going to assist them. If it's part of the ohana oftentimes, so a wife, a spouse, non-Hawaiian, of course we're going to help them. But our kuleana, as we see it, is to uplift the native Hawaiian community, and help them with a hand up, not necessarily a hand up. What is the big problem? I'm glad you said that, and it wasn't on my agenda. But I do want to discuss that, because one of the most traumatizing situations that I've seen occur with the Department of Hawaiian Homeland has been the situation that happens as often happens. Native Hawaiian homesteader marries a non-Hawaiian spouse. Obviously, he marries, so he has a non-Hawaiian spouse, and then passes away. The spouse who has put their entire life in making a home and keeping it, all of that, all of a sudden is not eligible for any kind of assistance. Yeah, the Department of Hawaiian Homeland, that is the structure that was passed down and delegated to the state by the Fed. However, there are some rights that the spouse has. I don't think everyone understands those rights. They have live-in rights. They have, you know, their children, of course, would be air, and the mom, the spouse who's non-Hawaiian, would have the right to remain in the home. There's some rights that they have, but yeah, at the end of the day, they also have the right to sell it if they want to. So there's some options that they have, not the best options, I would say, but there are some options available. Are you a homesteader? I am. Terrific. Were your parents homesteaders? My parents are homesteaders. My grandparents are homesteaders, so it's multi-generational. Of course, we have our own lease now out in Kapolei. I enjoy being a homesteader. It's very community or life. You know, everybody knows each other. Okay, well, great. And I gotta tell you, I'm a homesteader too. So my dad was, but we waited forever to become homesteaders. My sister now lives on the homestead. But I'm really glad that your agency is focusing on the economic of Native Hawaiians. And what are the other areas? Oh, I know you do a lot of advocacy work. Yeah, so we have a policy shop as well. So we focus on Native Hawaiian advocacy. What that involves is essentially looking at systemic change, you know, ways in which we could address policies that are barriers to our success. So advocacy and working with our legislature locally as well as at the federal level, ensuring that Hawaiian voices are represented at both those levels. So our convention is tied into that. At convention, we identify priorities. Those priorities then circulated to our legislative bodies. So they know what the Hawaiian interest is this year. And I know that you had legislators attending. We had almost 30 of them this year at our convention. So that was great. Well, there's two issues, and we're going to take a small break now. But when we come back, there are two issues I want to get into. And that is the mixing. The first would be the mixing of economics and advocacy. Because, as I understand it, you were had a substantial involvement in the Aloha Poke controversy a few years ago. And also then get to, you know, and then just in general, what are some of the issues that we have for Native Hawaiians? So folks, we'll be right back in one minute with our guest, Kohio Lewis from the Council of Native Hawaiian Advance. Aloha, I'm Mellie James, host of Let's Mana Up. Tuesdays every other Tuesday from 11 to 1130. This show is meant to dive into stories of local product entrepreneurs and how they're growing their companies from right here in Hawaii. I'm so thrilled to have our show kicked off. And so please join us on Tuesdays at 11 o'clock as we talk to local entrepreneurs and hear their stories. Aloha, Stan Undergeman here. You can see me every Tuesday at 3 p.m. here on ThinkTech Hawaii. We're not on Friday anymore, so don't be looking for me on Friday. I'm on Tuesday at 3 p.m. here on ThinkTech coming to you live and direct from the beautiful studios in downtown Honolulu's Pioneer Plaza. So please join me and we'll talk everything about hydrogen and clean energy, not only for Hawaii but for the whole wide world. Aloha. Welcome back to Talk Story with John White and our guest, Kohio Lewis from the Council on Native Hawaiian Advance, but we were just going to have a little fun here. Now once in a couple of years or at least a year or so ago, I saw you handing out those selling t-shirts actually, saying something about Aloha is not for sale, you know, and doing community organizing. And so you are a very important part of the, I guess you would call it the Aloha Poké movement or something like that. I got involved. I got very involved. I was new in the role that I have now, but what we saw was cultural appropriation at its finest. You know, we saw a mainland chain restaurant copyright Hawaiian language and then send letters to Hawaiian businesses saying you can't use Aloha in the same sentence as your Poké. So you know, I was offended by that because who gave you the rights to our language? Right. So I did. I got together, a hui of us. It was a number of different organizations came together, but I funded some of the advocacy efforts. We flew to Chicago and we staged the big protest right in their downtown area. We marched. So what was the end result of that? Well, they stopped sending letters, cease and desist letters. I mean, it was a band-aid approach and we have, that's one of our priorities actually, is looking at how we can get into some form of legislation, some kind of protection, because this is not just happening to native Hawaiians. Yeah, because you know, by the way, that same organization has just opened up, like I heard a couple of hundred Poké stores across the United States saying Aloha Poké. What's mostly irritating for me is the thing is not even Poké in my opinion. Yeah, it's most tossed salad. Yeah, it's basically tossed salad with pieces of fish thrown in. But okay, so I don't want to kill it, but that was kind of, I know that you both got some degree of success with that. That's a form of advocacy that we do. I mean, you know, we don't always get down and protest in Ku'i, but you know, in that situation, it was necessary. So we stopped them, I would say, from sending more cease and desist letters, but it's not the end of the road. We have to take our advocacy to another level. And you know, okay, that's a high boy. We're going into these different chains, but another chain we're talking with economics again, with economic development again, was that you also provide a lot of training for Native Hawaiians who want to upgrade their job skills. I saw something recently where you were developing apprenticeship programs for trades. Yeah, so the Council for Native, one of the things when I came into this role, I kind of restructured the organization a bit. And one of the priorities that elevated for me was job readiness, job training, raising income for Hawaiian families. That was the goal, right? How do we get our Hawaiians so they can live in the homeland? What I'm afraid of is 2020 census, it'll show more Hawaiians on the continent than back home here. That's a chance that might be correct. It's actually a good chance that that's going to happen. But the only way we can survive in our homeland is if we figure out how to raise our income, right? So again, paid $9 milk. Anyway, one of the ways in which we're doing that is through... $9 what? Milk. Really? I paid $9 the other day from it. Well, that's not because I was lazy and I would like drive down the road, but I bought it at $9. $9 at $711. Yeah, you're right. So, okay, tell me, what are the training programs? So we have, it's a number of training programs that help our young Native Hawaiian students. I don't say they're all young, 18 to 44 is our bracket. But we get them all the certifications that they need so that they can go into a trade. So for example... Are you working with the unions? Yes, we are. So for Carpentry, let's talk about that one. So Carpentry will put them through a 10-week course. It's only two hours a week. So if you do the math, it's 40-hour investment. They walk away from our program with OSHA certification, with respiratory training, forklift training, all of the basic things that they're going to need so that when they're going in for an interview, they are at the top of the pile because they have the certifications that they need. So they go into a deal with the apprenticeship program. It gives them a hand up. It gives them the basic things that they need to be successful in that career path. So, and it's free. We don't charge them for that. I want to thank Aloha United Way, by the way, because they funded, they seeded that program, as well as OMA. Yeah, so it's going very well. You also teach... I saw one of the advertisements were for policemen. They have a police program as well. So that program is about 11 weeks long. You go once a week every evening. You learn about the police academy and all of the elements within the police academy. So when you get in, you go right through. You'll find an A student. And we've already seen success. So we graduated 17 from that program. And already, I want to say, seven or eight have already gotten into the police academy and passed their entry test. So, for those of them. Okay. Well, we're talking about all these economics things. There's an elephant in the room, obviously. And because we have Native Hawaiians right now on Mauna Kea, which is influencing, I'm sure, a lot of conversations in the Native Hawaiian community. I don't want to decide the issue of Mauna Kea, except I did want to ask you, though, what effect Mauna Kea, the protectors of the Mauna, have had on your operation? Sure. Well, I would start off by saying you, of all people, would know what comes from activism. Our movement is on the backs of activism. So what we see before us right now is Hawaiians. This is our generation of activism. And the question is what is going to come from this or the greater movement of our Lahui. And so our organization has, to a certain degree, gotten involved, not deeply, but we've provided a platform for them to have discussions. We have provided resources. So that they can express what it is that they are doing, which is the first step toward communication. Yes. So to me, what we see coming out of Mauna Kea is a resurgence of Hawaiians identifying who they are and giving themselves a sense of place, a sense of a Hawaiian. And that is, I mean, it's inspiring. Even though no matter where you stand on the issue, when you see them come together and galvanize, you see 20,000 Hawaiians walking through Waikiki, it sparks a sense of place. There seems to be some consistency in the messaging, in the sense that the Hokulea went around the world, Malama Honua, which is taking care of the space that you're on or the planet. And even with Mauna Kea, you're talking about this taking care of the Aina. And so isn't that a message for more than Native Hawaiians, though? That's a message for a planet. Yeah. And I can tell you that I would consider myself, you know, I wouldn't say I'm Ku'e, Ku'e type of Hawaiian, you know, where you're always into that aspect. But I can tell you that I understand that what they are doing is necessary. It's necessary because Hawai'i, it makes you pause. And it makes you think more critically about our Aina. It makes you think about our state of place and whether things go on behind the scenes that shouldn't be going on. It makes you think more critically about society and the way it choices that have been made. And decision-making processes. So I commend our Kea'i. I think they've held it together really well. This concept of Kapu Aloha is something that we've all learned from as well. So I think there are some amazing gems that have come out of this movement already. Well, I tell you, and this is where I wanted to fold everything together in a sense. And that is that I heard one of the young men, and I don't know if he realized that somebody like myself would be listening to him talk and then pick out of his conversation something that I thought was really important. I mean, he didn't necessarily spend a lot of time on it. But what he said, which is I think folds into your objectives is that he said that they are about half or better native Hawaiians that now live on the mainland. And then I think that if we look at our total local population, people who were born here, I think more than half probably are on the, no, I shouldn't say mainland. And I apologize for using the word, but on the continent. Because we're the mainland. But on the continent, right? So all of these, and what he was expressing or trying to express was that when we, perhaps we need a new criteria in our how we evaluate benefit, like he said, like, you know, we constantly did. And this was more closer to what he was actually saying, which is, you know, we, we always talk about the benefits that something would bring us. So we have the we construct a new hotel, we we talk about the benefits, the jobs and so forth. And yet when we get done, more people have to leave because they can't afford to live here. So are we do we have the right criteria in the 21st century for islands in the middle of the Pacific? And I thought, man, that, you know, whatever you think of the program, that's a brilliant concept. Because I mean, you know, you somebody will tell you that the 30 meter telescope will bring all these benefits to Hawaii. But they never put the next question, which is, and it may, and it may be that it'll benefit, but they never put the next question in. Yes, we'll accept all those benefits. But will it actually end up with more people being able to stay here or come back home? And I don't know whether we should be doing more of that with our policy decision. I think you're right. I think he's right. I think, you know, the reason why we all beyond Hawaiians love Hawaii is because of the natural beauty that it that it provides. I can tell you, I feel comfortable saying this is if Hawaiians weren't in the picture right now, this would be a very different Hawaii. You wouldn't have the beaches and the pristine environment. If Hawaiians weren't fighting them every step of the way, Hawaii would be completely different. So I think that causes pause for the whole structure to think about that, the criteria that you're setting rather than it putting it on a temporary value job. Or saying that economics are the most important thing, you know, or anything. And one way of looking at economics like the young man suggested was how many people will stay here? You know, I mean, we look at Kakaako. I don't want to talk about it. You know, we moved to Kakaako. Kakaako, you've got all this great economic development. And we all know very few local people, if any are still there, are going to be living in Kakaako. And Kakaako at one time was a busy industrial hub of shops and auto repair shops and all kinds of things. I mean, you know, was it so beneficial to change that we end up with the census sending anybody away? So I'm hoping your advocacy deals with that kind. I think the road ahead is very interesting. The other thing I wanted to just mention as it relates to monarchy is, you know, I was saying it as I went down to Waikiki for that march through. And I stood on the side and I decided to just video as people were passing. And I was amazed at how many Hawaiians for what I kept saying to myself, my God, imagine if all of these guys voted. Yeah, right. All these Hawaiians voted. Like if you think about it, I mean, this is this is a perspective. Hawaii has 1.2 million eligible voters of that 640,000 actually vote. That's half. And I mean, that's registered, I should say. So of 1.2 million, well, it's about 600,000 eligible. Because 1.2 million is all. I think it's 1.6 million is everybody. Yeah. Anyway, my point is is 640,000 are registered to vote. It might have gone up in the last election. But of that 40, 43, 45 percent vote. So you're talking about this state being controlled by a little over 200,000 people. When we have over a million that are 10 percent, we're walking in Waikiki that day. Yes. So I mean, my point is, is 20,000 new fresh Hawaiian voters that send lightning rods to the system about the we can think more critically about Hawaii, about how we value our home and what is our values for change? All right. Well, I did want to thank you very much. Unfortunately, we got zeros buzzing at us. And so that means that time's up. But Kuhio, thank you so much for joining us. And I hope that you continue the good work that you have you and your actually your predecessors have started. Thank you. Thanks a lot.