 It's this owl thing is for real one of them swooped down and took one of their little teacup dogs They had outside. Oh, no ran off with it never saw it again Some some planet Earth three business going on there just a rude bird Yeah, we see the innocent they see Wait and this is the daytime I thought owls were nocturnal that's where they got those big eyes That's why they swooped down and and took the dogs. They're so upset that everyone was keeping them up in the day. Yeah, see It's all a sleep thing. It always comes back to sleep lack of it. You know what? I gotta test my soundboard here. All right Maybe they saw so many of those Taco Bell commercials. They thought they were getting like a quesarito or something. Oh I've had a quesarito before It doesn't taste like that little toy dog I know we had to cut short the the post show yesterday Because I was hitting the road, but it was worth it. I went up to the comedy film nerds new studio up in Burbank I actually passed right by the overwatch location as well Scott and It was it was a blast. We talked about ready player one. We talked about the Isle of Dogs Talked about a couple trailers. I even Talked about Wizard of Oz and their in their special after show thing for their patrons So check it out comedy film nerds. I was on there with Graham and Chris and it was a blast It was really fun. We're gonna have Chris on DTNS actually not too long from now at the Last week of this month last week of this month. So yeah turn about his fair play. Oh Turnabout used to be one of our school dances where the girls asked the boys get it. Oh Like going about it was very stressful. We had a Youth reform company that would take troubled kids who were into drugs and stuff and Take him out in the wilderness and try to scare him straight and that was called turnabout One of those weird boot camps where they make a marsh of the desert turnabout is not fair play in this game All right, you guys ready? Yeah So Here Go The Daily Tech news show is brought to you by its global listener base not outside organizations to find out how you can contribute Go to Daily Tech news show comm slash support This is the Daily Tech news for Wednesday April 4th 2018 from DTNS headquarters in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt and from studio feline I'm Sarah Lane from beautiful uptown Salt Lake City. I'm Scott Johnson. You're so uptown. You're an uptown girl Also with us our producer Roger Chang. How are you sir? I am fine. I just watched The last Jedi last night who says Rogers behind the times. He's up on all the latest our always Six months later. All right folks. We are going to try to keep our spirits up For a show that is going to be a bit of a downer, but it's something I think we need to talk about So we'll start with a few tech things you should know I San Bruno, California police identified 39 year old San Diego resident Nazim Agdam as the person who shot and wounded three people at YouTube headquarters Wednesday before shooting and killing herself Agdam had previously posted Plenty of videos complaining about YouTube censoring her and demonetizing her channels And we're going to be delving into this in a lot more detail a little bit later in the show Intel announced it will not provide specter variant two fixes for some older chips Kind of knew this was coming new no core two chips We'll get fixes and all the fixes for core chips have already been released Owners of sandy bridge or newer systems will get fixes But others should check the intel site to see if their chip is indeed I mean for a fix Intel had said they were going to fix all of them. So this is a change. They're like I I you know what I guess I never heard him say that but I always assumed something was going to get lost You can't go back forever and do my 486, you know, so I don't know Tinder is testing its first video feature called tinder loops. Not a breakfast cereal. It's a tinder feature It's only on ios in canada in sweden right now as a test feature is a two second long repeating video that can be added To a user's profile. Hey, if you want to swipe right on anything Two second loop. All right Tinder moved to canada or part of this complete dating strategy Let's talk a little bit more about a good old-fashioned apple rumor. What do we got? Well, first of all, you should Dts should now be in two second gif format That's our dude. Yes from now on the great idea Uh bloomberg's mark gurmin reports that sources say apple is researching Touchless gesture control And curved screens as potential features in future iPhones The features are at least two years away and are not guaranteed to end up in the products So like all apple rumors who the crap knows till they release them gurmin's pretty good with this stuff But this we're not saying that he's wrong when you say that we're saying What he's saying is apple's researching this apple research is all kinds of things So to a lot of companies some things don't pan out and they don't use them I would guess that the curved phone the curved screen Since there is a bit of a curvature in the current iphone screen It's probably likely to be figured out. I don't know why I want it I'm curious what apple comes up with for a reason, but it's certainly doable The touchless gesture thing. I've heard rumored before this is the most reliable Report on it that I've heard that one if they could make it work I totally get you know the ability to just kind of Wave your hand at the screen and have it do things not only is cool But also increases a lot of accessibility options. Yeah, I I'm so skeptical of the touchless thing But only because I'm having a hard time Picturing the use cases where I would be waving at my phone and not looking like a complete weirdo Uh, but they're I'm sure there are cases like for example It'd be nice for some people who want to hold their phone out to here and just sort of wave here when they want to flip screens or change pages Maybe that's the kind of stuff we're talking about think of before the show scott You were talking about how smudgy your phone was Think of how many fewer smudges you might have once you get used to the touchless thing And maybe the curved screen and touchless have something to do with each other a little bit more of like an Encompassing so that your edges are a little bit closer to you and it can read what you want a little bit more How do you feel about how do you feel about a future where we've been told for the last you know 10 plus years that touch was it touch was the thing touch is going to be there forever Can you see a future where we don't touch our interfaces? I mean, maybe it's always there as a backup But well we're talking to him now without touching him. So sure it's true not well But yes, and it can read our face so eventually facial expressions could be used Yeah, it's it's when you start realizing your head and it moves to the next one Time's going so fast because it just seems like I was just barely told that touch was going to be it forever Nothing lasts forever. The only constant has changed speaking of changes John gianondrea stepping down from his post as google ahead of artificial intelligence He's been there for two years google engineering executives ben gomez and jeff dean will take over the department in joint roles google initially indicated this was yesterday's news that gianondrea would stay with the company But it appears that is not the case because he's headed to apple to head apples machine learning and ai strategy And will report directly to ceo tim cook kind of a big job gianondrea once worked at apple spin-off general magic So he probably has some friends there He joined google when it bought meta web at where at the time gianondrea was cto You know, it's funny when when I read the story yesterday I thought gosh, you know, maybe he didn't do a good job because google was very vague like Yeah, he'll continue to work on you know just kind of engineering stuff That's that's what he does best Clearly they knew that this the story had What that that I know this is the main part of this story is apple stepping up their ai game, right? Like they they've been criticized for falling behind with syrie and this is stealing one of the best from the best at ai I know that's the main story, but there is a part of me that wants to know Why would google even say he's sticking around they had to have known he was leaving Well, you would think it's a big enough possession that you think they'd know or didn't Well, but but they also they they gave Precious few details about what he was going to be doing. You know, was it a demotion? Was it, you know, You know, was he not a good leader? Was he not a good manager? Is he just better, you know tinkering in the lab? And I think that that was just google's way of Having something to say knowing that he was actually leaving Well, I feel like if he was actually leaving that you just don't say anything You just say he's stepping down and leaving the company That's what usually happens when somebody goes to the competition Say making a point of confirming that he'll be sticking around only to have it overturned later in the day Just seems weird to me. Sure. I mean at the 11th hour if apple, you know, scooped him up and google's like, okay Well, I guess you're leaving that would be a whole different twist No, that's I guess that's the interesting part is did john and drea not tell them What was the deal not finalized with apple until later that day? Was he leaving without going anywhere and apple found out and like made him an offer he could refuse I doubt any of those things are true. I'm sure it was just a weird mix up Where the person making the statement didn't realize that like no, he's not sticking around dude You told him the wrong thing. That's probably the most likely but anyway, yeah A big get for apple in ai and it shows their commitment to that as a vertical having him report to tim cook I think there's 11 people who report to tim cook. So they're all part of things that are extremely important for apple Yeah, and they need to fix seri you mentioned it before seri's lag behind even strident apple fans like myself think seri is kind of A bad deal right now. So I I hope this shed's light on how seri's going to work out in the future us senator ron wyden wrote a letter to the u.s. Department of home home land security Asking about unauthorized use of stingrays the dhs has now responded saying it has observed what it calls anomalous activity Involving stingray mobile phone interceptors if you don't know stingrays are a device that can be used to mimic mobile phone towers And then they collect all the information of the cell phones they can get They may be only after one particular cell phone But they collect a wide amount of data because they trick every cell phone in the vicinity into connecting to them That's why they are very controversial for use by not only the government but local police forces local governments, etc uh and uh dhs Not really shedding a lot of light by like yeah, we have noticed those isn't that weird Uh in the they're right in the capital area must be those spies is not what they said, but it's kind of the implication I don't like these these freak me out. I don't like that. They're called stingrays. I don't like anything about this story Breaks me out. Yeah Uh, let's move on to this story about facebook. I know you guys have heard a lot of facebook stuff lately folks But here is the ultimate catch up. I think facebook cto Mike schrofer says this this is a quote facebook information And he's talking of up to 87 million people worth Most in the u.s May have been improperly shared with cambridge analytica by apps that they are friend Sorry that they or their friends have used Facebook will start informing affected users april 9th as part of a banner that will help all users understand which apps have access to their data Facebook also announced new restrictions on what data third parties can access through the facebook api for instance Apps will no longer get ideological information like religious or political views Uh schrofer also said facebook will limit what android data it collects when users opt in to improve friend recommendations And will delete call logs older than a year Uh, that's kind of a mouthful, but in other facebook developments Actually any comments on that first time? I was gonna say but wait, there's more. Yeah, there's definitely more Um, there's other stuff going on the company has posted a written version of its terms of service And this is the rewritten version. This is them going and changing it and showing it to you They're going to take comments for seven days seven full days before asking its users to accept these new rewritten terms Uh, so you got a brand new yula to read everybody get out there and do it Mark zuckerberg will testify before the u.s House committee on energy and commerce at 10 a.m. Eastern time on april 11th So that's coming up And in an interview with roiders as zuckerberg said He would not commit to extending all of the e use general data protection regulation practices outside of europe I bet that question comes up again In the congress voting maybe we don't really usually get to do it quite this this way Uh, but breaking news tech crunch says that mark zuckerberg has refuted that very roiders report And I just found this at the second scott. Oh god. This came across the feed Uh, he he says I think regulations like the gdpr are very positive We intend to make all the same controls available everywhere not just in europe It's going is it going to be exactly the same format? Probably not we'll need to figure out what makes sense in different markets with different laws in different places But let me repeat this we're going to make all the same controls and settings available everywhere Not just in europe So I think it's a case where he was saying well You know implementing it the way we're doing it in europe probably could run a foul in some small way Of the way you're supposed to phrase something in the united states So we'll change the phrasing or you know, we may have to lump a couple of things together or certain export Data may be restricted in in thailand Where it's not in the europe and in fact in europe it's required and we'll make those adjustments And so he's now trying very hurriedly in this press conference. It's going on right now to say We know folks don't get mad at us about gdpr. We are going to implement this everywhere Yeah, I I'm very curious about the actual Energy and commerce session that happens on the 11th And I don't know I assume that's public. We all watch it. It's going to be huge, right? Oh, yeah, no, it'll be on c-span and probably carried by a bunch of other live streams Yeah I was on facebook and it gave me one of these like hey You've been selected to participate in one of our user surveys and I thought oh, it's an analytical one All right, it wasn't it was about hey. Do you ever I don't know find cleaning? You know services online and if so have you ever gone it through facebook? But when we talk about terms of service and the fact that people don't read ulas and But a vast majority no matter, you know, how how it's rewritten will also not read this even if required people Just sort of say yes. Yes. Yes. Take me to my timeline I wonder if there is a way to force somebody to take it in more of a survey form to make it more natural language so that There is less of that. Well, nobody reads that stuff. Anyway, it's just a bunch of legal speak I don't know what that would look like You know what that's a great idea. That's an awesome idea. Here's how it needs to work It's like when you go get a house loan You get these stacks of paper and what you have hopefully is a trusted individual there your agent whoever who is saying All right. Well, that basically this page that's nine pages long and it's horrible to read Means this so you're signing when you sign this what you're saying is basically you're going to approve this Give give that kind of guidance through a kind of Step-by-step quiz service. I think that's a brilliant idea because to be clear this rewritten terms of service doesn't change the policies It's just changing the way they explain them so that it's clearer What could be clearer than making sure people understand before they move on annoying as hell, right? Because we all want to save that time and just skip by saying okay But that's that's a well less less annoying that than data being used for possibly nefarious purposes without anybody understanding What's really going on? Yeah, I love that definitely the lesser of two evils or we can know how they're supposed to be using it. Yeah Exactly or or you know, it's the company taking Larger steps to to really try to inform people of of what's what's going on behind the scenes This is a great story guys This is this is this really cheered me up today because google is building another undersea cable running 6000 miles To connect japan to guam and then guam to australia It's a lot of fiber the jga as it's going to be called will connect with the hong kong singapore australia cable To build a ring that covers the asia pacific region now google has found it more cost effective to build its own undersea cables Than to rent time on existing cables sounds sort of familiar google does this It also has direct investment in 11 other undersea cables now These are one of these engineering marvels where I just say like the sea floor. How do you get down there? I mean, it's that's crazy, especially since if you read a little bit about how These cables are not only constructed, but you know, these are years long projects They have to be constructed in factories and then the cables are are are are are designed to withstand I don't know not only see life who even knows what's going on down there, but currents And you know living on an ocean bed for years And then that ships have to to to drop the cable which is apparently made of very very Strong glass, you know that's that's built to not break although it happens sometimes then when it breaks A ship has to go back out there and fix it in a certain area I don't know. I mean it's sort of like every time I used to cross the golden gate bridge Which was twice a day at one point. I'd be like, how do they do this? How does it not fall? You know, I know it. I know how it works, but it's still Uh, sort of a miraculous thing to me. Yeah fascinating stuff. Tom quickly I want to play upon your your sci-fi ridership here You need to make a book about undersea cities where we all live like gungans because it's already been pre-wired And piped for internet. This is the next step into undersea cities. I'm telling you Me so get right on that as long as we have internet. Let's I mean who needs there. What else do you need? Yeah, you know, you know that there's no like you'd have to splice into those cables just like you do on land It's not being undersea doesn't help. Anyway, or do you To get all the tech headlines each day at about five minutes. Be sure to subscribe to daily tech headlines at dailytechheadlines.com All right, folks, uh, as we mentioned San Bruno police identified The shooter on the youtube campus, uh, we've had a day to sort of Find out what really happened or at least know a little more than we did yesterday when we mentioned it on the show Uh, as sarah mentioned at the top of the show 39 year old san diego resident nasim augdom Uh was the person who shot and wounded three people at youtube headquarters wednesday before shooting and killing herself One of the victims is still listed in critical condition Police say that augdom's primary motive was frustration with and this is a quote from the police The policies and practices of youtube So the police are considering that her motivation augdom had previously posted videos complaining about youtube a telegram post complaining about youtube She said they were censoring her they were filtering her they had made one of her videos age restricted She took exception to that they demonetized her channel And her family had reported her missing and police found her On monday night in mountain view the night before the shooting But they didn't know she was going to shoot anyone there was no reason to detain her she's an adult So they informed the family we found her she's in mountain view and her father told police She might be headed to youtube because of her anger at dean monetization of her channel Uh, san bruno police chief ed barbarini told the press wednesday that augdom visited a gun range tuesday morning Before the shooting the family was not aware that she owned a gun Her youtube channels and facebook and instagram accounts have been taken offline Last we looked the telegram account was still there. There may be there's a website as well There there's a lot of hacking involved with this I don't even know if we want to get into that maybe if we have a little time at the end but The biggest issue here to meet to my mind and i'm curious what sarah and scott thing is This is a an extreme example of the culture of outrage Against platforms. Some of what youtube does is wrong. Uh is exploitative and is mistaken Some of what youtube does is just Random, uh, it's just accidental We get demonetized every day every dts video on youtube gets demonetized Often before it's posted Because something's weird in the youtube system and roger Kovetches about it because he has to go in and report it and then it gets unblocked etc And we're fine, but uh my personal youtube channel has been demonetized because I don't meet the new more stringent system It is not uncommon for people to be angry at youtube, but it has created a culture That has led this person To have an extreme reaction. What youtube's done doesn't justify this. That's not what i'm saying But it is I think significant that youtube is now in the class of local television stations local radio stations newspapers which have all for a long time had Very strict security policies because newscasters have been shot reporters have been shot in the past That stopped that largely does not happen anymore, but it was a more common occurrence in the early days of broadcasting We're at that point with youtube now Yeah, I mean I we talked about this briefly on tms this morning Uh, and I've thought a lot about it since um given what we talked about and I More than even then believe that what we are seeing is Uh the internet and its institutions Uh, it's things we're used to uh the facebook's and the youtube's of the world and and twitter's of the world We're seeing them become So interwoven with just regular society. In fact, they just straight up our regular society We talked this morning about how the internet is no longer kind of this separate entity from regular life The way it kind of used to feel in the late 90s and maybe early aughts. It's now just all part of the same fabric and so As a result of that That maturation I think that you start to see some of these things happen like they do in lots of walks of life Like you see happen at public libraries There was a time when a public library wasn't a thing that was very common But now it is and so as things become more institutionalized or a better word would be more interwoven with our regular lives We start to see both good and bad things happen that Just kind of happen and and and it's sticking out to us big time because of the tech angle And where we're all coming from for our perspective and a lot of people like us, but I think overall it's just another step toward This is life is them. They are us. We are them and there's no real distinction anymore They're not just some hobby off to the side with a weird computer. I run Yeah, I think youtube as a platform The fact that there are millions of users Many of them might consider youtube their livelihood or part of it Not everyone But you know a growing number of users who express outrage all the time It's very hard for me to separate that from Well, and and then you know, you might be mad enough that something like this happens There's no excuse for something like this happening. It's it's it's it's completely wrong and no amount of outrage could justify What happened yesterday? However, the greater of numbers of users you have The more likely especially when There is not only money involved, but someone can uh who considers themselves being censored and or ignored That is something that companies are going to have to come to terms with And I you know, I hate to say this but this is this is not not the last time this sort of thing happens The fact that the campus, uh, which is in San Bruno, which I have never been to personally Um, but I I've known a lot of people who've worked there over the years and you know It's sort of large and it was lunchtime and there were people outside That angle of it is really troubling to me because There are a lot of especially in silicon valley, but certainly in other places as well These big sprawling campuses where it's you know, it's supposed to be sort of like a utopia to work there the google campus the apple campus There's you know, there are a lot of examples of this And the idea that an employee working for a company like youtube Would be unsafe because there might be somebody who is angry with youtube for whatever reason it is You know, this is a specific reason but it could be a lot of reasons Who could have access to hurt somebody who works there? I wonder how companies are going to have to Lock down and protect themselves going forward in the same way that a school would I think in some ways, uh, these companies because they've they've broadened out what you were saying sarah about having A larger a larger clientele and a larger user base As you broaden out to society you tend to cross over Into a lot of the strata that they might have not had before because The user base might have been smaller and the one parallel i see is with celebrities in the same way that as celebrities become more recognizable More popular with a wider group of people They have to be more careful about their personal safety. In fact, you know many studio lots I'm sure you're well aware have very tight security for that reason because they don't even if someone is there for genuinely benign reason They need to take that extra precaution because it all it all it takes is one or two individuals to kind of really, uh, You know make it a very you know, at least feeling very unsafe And you know, that's one of those things because they are dealing with not just a product. They're dealing with, you know, society You it's a different mindset than just rolling out implementations of software of user interfaces and things like that Yeah, it's it's an example of the fact that these are the biggest companies in the world You think about that, you know used to be us steel used to be xon Uh, you don't think those companies had incredible security These companies these tech companies came up from an area where they were somewhat not obscure, but somewhat niche And and they could afford to do these open campus ideas and and that's going to change now I don't want to exaggerate that one person does not a trend make But it does require all companies to review Okay, what what are they doing to protect their employees? Is there a risk of this sort of thing happening to them? And certainly in the case of the youtube uh campus and probably all the youtube campuses I I know my my wife used to work at youtube here in la She doesn't work there anymore. This campus wasn't involved But she said yeah, I talked to my friends there and they sent people home because now everybody Who is worried about it? You don't you don't think that just because you're not in sambruna It doesn't mean you're like well wait, you know, we have big youtube sign up on the on the side of the wall So they they are going to have to adapt even if it's just to make their employees feel safe Yeah, there's even for no other reason the only thing I would say just to finish off my thoughts on this would be there There's going to be an interesting psychological Evaluation of this and and probably some good healthy discussion about Our expectations of these services. It's a platform that let you put your videos up there for free Well, what does that mean? Are we are we supposed to have some? Greater access or should we have the equal? Uh Volume of people looking at us as somebody who's more famous than us There's all these questions about About what we're doing there that I think are going to be interesting to talk about that are not even necessarily connected to this Tragedy but are perhaps spurred on by it. And I think that's what worth It's a discussion worth having Well, thanks to everybody who carries on these discussions in other arenas Our post show that's a that's available Are subreddit at daily tech news show dot reddit dot com and our facebook group at facebook.com slash groups Slash daily tech news show All right, let's take a look at the mail bag sarah Let's do it dwayne in germany who's working for the department of defense wrote in this is really interesting said I just want to recap the windows rollout that we just completed because OMG That was hell. That's a direct quote from dwayne. He says windows itself not hell But the process very painful for us I see why so many enterprise companies don't like the process Thousands of pcs were swapped out just at our base alone because so many of the older pcs didn't properly support windows 10 Many of them were vista pcs. Then they were upgraded windows 7 This was amazing undertaking for our communication squadron personnel because that's you know what they've got there And those designated to help in each squadron windows 10 booted up fine outlook worked fine But drivers printers Horrible experience as you can imagine. This is not regular windows that we're using at the department of defense You can't just load a driver the communication squadron had to do all of this themselves So wanted to give a massive shout out to all the u.s. Air force army marine and navy com personnel That endured the pains and tribulations of making this happen millions of pcs in the d of d were either replaced or upgraded And dang they deserve some love Yeah, that's really cool. Dwayne it's it's interesting to to to think of it on on a scale of that especially something that's You know as security Reliant as as the dody Now uh yesterday, uh, we read an email from john and first of all he says sarah. Sorry to give you so much to read yesterday But he followed up on my question Uh about the the proposal uh for for the the citizens band access That's going to be shared with the military But remember the the carriers won't have to own it so they can all use it And I said according to my reading of google's proposal It didn't look like it was entirely blocked when the military needed it just De-prioritized it john says he's not an expert either but looking at what wind forums working group standard says Which is what google's working with He says it looks like the carriers need to vacate 20 megahertz of the 100 megahertz band when the military needs it But you you would get to use the rest of the band So you'd absolutely need to vacate part of the band you wouldn't just be de-prioritized But there'd still be a large amount of the band that you could continue to to use so John says let me know if you have any other questions It's very strange to actually have something to contribute But hey, this stuff is all pretty obvious after you work on it for years Which is why we love our audience because there's always somebody who's like only I actually know about that thing And this time it's john. Thank you john. Yeah strange to you john But great for us the hive mind continues also great for us is having scott johnson on the show each week scott johnson Thank you and let folks know where they can keep up with your other work well Big stuff coming soon on the Kickstarter front for me if you're interested in what that'll be that little hint drop You can just check out frogpants.com. That's where it'll be posted likely early next week Uh, I talked about another show so I won't worry with it here But if you are interested in daily content like you're already listening to the daily tech news show and you already love it Maybe you'd like a morning show too to go with it Start your day with the morning stream and end it with the daily tech news show You can find that over at frogpants.com as well and I am scott johnson on twitter. Thanks for having me Thanks to everybody who supports us on patreon We've had a couple people very nicely write us and say like I lost my job. I'm in a financial straight I had to cancel. I'm really sorry So help pick them up if you're out there listening to the show and you've got an extra dollar a month You're like well, I can afford a dollar you can help somebody feel good that they Are in a hard time because you picked them up and made sure we stayed funded patreon.com slash dts And if you would like a mug similar to this one to drink your coffee out of try daily tech news show.com Store we're fine products like this and others are sold If you want to get your email read on the show or perhaps the monthly mail bag Of which the next one is coming up pretty soon our email address is feedback at daily tech news show dot com questions comments Jokes will take up. We are live money through friday at 4 30 p.m. Eastern 20 30 utc And you can find out more at daily tech news show dot com slash live I believe just robber yogg will be along tomorrow. So give him a big warm welcome. Talk to you This show is part of the frog pants network Get more at frogpants.com The diamond club hopes you have enjoyed this program Pachinga Yeah, I think that went really good Me too. Yeah, that yes. Good. Good job. Good. Good show. Very good show buddy. Yeah, there's so much more to talk about I was so I was kind of like Mildly nervous. I don't know, you know, sometimes it's just There's there'll be a story where I'm just kind of like oh, it's just very it's a very itchy topic. I mean Especially when you're involving a situation where someone has Died is right. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Also. It could have gone so much worse Like you could have gotten some but you know, honestly, I didn't think you would I see I know all of you and it's not I don't think you wouldn't any of I don't mean that I mean the I mean the shooting Oh, you mean the event itself. Yeah, yeah So I'm glad it didn't I'm glad people are you know, we're covering and all that but I don't know that whole thing Yeah, I remember Remember, I know this is old man talk But remember when we had that incident at the studio at tech TV and that's where they started putting in security. Yeah It's Roger. I think you made the best point of of of all which is you know, they've grown to a part where they just cross into A large enough amount of people that that statistically you're gonna get Yeah, and the reason I say that it's because I've seen it happen before I've seen it in fandom Like I remember cosplay circles They're a relatively small niche groups, but as they broaden out there are a lot of people Who started running into issues with body shaming? With uh harassment. I mean like a lot of things that didn't used to exist as because the the that particular, you know Group expanded beyond, you know, the you know a few tens of thousands into like, you know Millions of people and you're invariably gonna get a subset of you know, what society has to offer unfortunately Yeah, it's true cross now the next the next hurdle. What do we call this show? Do we want to avoid the I think we can't avoid it No, I think we kind of have to Name it On the events. Yeah, just try to be as yeah, we're not gonna have a fun title. That's all well, there really isn't one in the way of for that particular subject Yeah, I think we're gonna have to come up with one I think um you two Shooting an aftermath or is that too, you know, that's not a that's not a bad way to go. Just oh, yeah, you just Yeah, like it's not gonna be clever. It's just it is what it is. I agree I think that's actually the other way do like tenderloot bacon cheddar ranch Oh, I'll everyone likes that but on another day that would definitely be the title just because um Uh, I don't know I pay attention to dating apps And when they fight with each other and when they get new features, but it's like A two second loop in lieu of a photo, right? I can't imagine I I feel like Now and this is not fair because I haven't seen one yet Nor have I made one, uh, but I feel like if somebody had one of those I would like them less Well, but then that's good It's a weed out factor. Oh, I see, you know, like, okay, that wouldn't have worked out But that's not why tender's doing it. They're doing it because they're like, oh, you know, people love loops, right? That's a thing. It's not in lieu of the photo. It's in addition They're actually giving you more photo slots now So that you don't have to lose any of your existing photos You can add I think up to four more photos and they can be loops if you want I don't have to be well, okay. It's it's a loop or it's a photo. That's what I'm that's what I meant by that But you could have you can have both. That's what I'm saying. You mean, right, right Of the slot that might have been a photo if it's a loop I would consider that a weed out Uh factor, but that's obviously not why tender is giving people that option. They're giving You know people love boomerang on instagram, right? I have no standing for this, but I'm going to defend tender Uh, I think what they're trying to do and I'm not saying they're going to succeed But my reading of what they're trying to do is saying hey when somebody puts a photo up They can put all kinds of glow and brush and filter and you may not get a real good idea What this person really looks like But a loop is going to show them an action and it's only two seconds So it could just be like, you know head tilt or something But you get to see the real person a little more, but there's already video capabilities for that already That's not an annoying I mean Like I don't know tender's never used dating apps. How Representative typically are people's photos of their actual cells when you meet them they're Well mixed bag roge Uh sometimes I mean it's listen for the most part, you know, every once in a while I'll be like god, that's a bad photo Why would you do that? But most of the time it's like the photos you find most flattering, right? You don't want to misrepresent yourself necessarily. I mean, that's that's a whole other thing if people who do that But you you know, you want someone to be like, oh, that's that's a good-looking person, you know That's an attractive person. Oh that person riding the tiger looks like they're going to be a lot of fun, you know In fact, maybe a two second tiger riding loop is not the worst idea in the world If you do that, let's date. Maybe what you'd find is you think that the weed out until you see the loop You're like, wait a minute. That is an unanticipated clever use of the loop Perhaps I'm I'm being uh, unreasonably dismissive of this whole thing. I will get back to you all All right. Yes, please report that So many there's tinder There's tinder. There's bumble. There's oh god. There's so many. There's there's okay cupid. There's match There's uh There's They're they're pretty much all app based at this point. I mean, there's web versions of of this stuff Yeah, but it's literally hundreds roger hundreds so many Well, and there's you know, like people who want to like I don't remember the name of it, but it's like I think it's called farmers only. It's like, oh, yeah, they made fun of it on the Family guy. Yeah, I'm sure they did but it's you know, it's again. It's sort of like let's try to uh, you know You know really get people who you know have at something that's like so big and common that that You know or religion j-date huge huge in the jewish E harmony used to be that that used to be an Yeah, they were a Christian although not although not officially that was kind of Those were the undertones, right, right? I mean, I mean, it's funny because uh farmers only.com is of course to Hook together people up who are into maybe a farming rural lifestyle Uh, but uh family guy made fun of it saying like even though we don't say it We're pretty much white people only and right after that For our mors only.com. They changed up the commercials to include more people of color. Oh Well, okay Well done family guy, but uh What I was gonna say was I I'm kind of with sarah on that. I think they're just going people like gifts gifts are cool Yeah, repeated. Let's let's add a feature. So we seem like we're iterating. Yeah. Well, you're taking it that way They're saying no, that's not why we're doing it It is always possible that the thing that looks like a crass move has a legitimate reason Tender's trying to say it has a legitimate reason And I think we almost convinced sarah that it might be a legitimate reason. So I did not say it was crass I don't find this whole thing crass. I just think it's it's a feature that will It seems um that will finally get you to date that tiger rider Tiger rider. Yeah, two second gift loops wipe rates. Here's my question though Okay, uh, I assume they have contact control, right? Some guys are not going to do some pervy thing with a gift All right I don't I don't know Because apples got strict rules on that for their app for that I think you I think if you report a photo it can come down pretty quick There's some pretty good self regulation in that because pervy photos don't get you responses. So Yeah Yeah, and there are rules against it too. Yeah, but pervy photos also make I it would make if I was on there I'd be like, okay. Maybe I don't want this well definition of pervy too, right? Well, yeah Like if you do something that is vile, no one's going to date you they're going to report you and your profile gets taken down So I I'm guessing that doesn't happen very often. It probably happens But my my thinking is that they would worry that if people saw too much of that they would just leave their service Yeah, I don't think I don't think that's the biggest concern. Yeah I remember remember when that wonder they hooked me up on mash.com for a segment on call for help Oh, so many years ago so many years ago and I remember adam Remember the book or adam. He said, oh, you got to be really careful roger a lot that's like why it's like well And it's like from personal experience. I'm not going to speak to the company. He basically said that a lot of What year was let's just be clear what year was 2003 Technically you have had a dating profile 15 years ago 15 years ago apps was Oh, no, it was uh, there are a lot of uh Uh prostitutes were using the service as a way to okay This is this is a very old problem because there was a whole law just passed to try to drive out exactly that kind of thing Well, most of the most of the legitimate platforms have driven it out a long time ago I will I will say I've never um I've never run across a profile male or female. Uh that appeared to be prostitution However, I have definitely run across profiles Particularly in the venice beach la area where it's clear that this person wants to sell me marijuana not date me Or maybe And to and roger to your point I bet there are some of these more niche areas that maybe don't have as large of a user base to self police You might you might find that sort of activity more common still I think that's probably plenty of activity. That's plenty of fishes Plenty of fish. That's another one. Yeah There's always a there's plenty of fish together. There is a little eat fish What happened? Okay. Cupid's still doing it, right? I'm still on okay I mean, okay. Cupid was was that was that was the uh, it was the industry standard for a while And then tender came along pretty much and three married guys talk about data gaps No, I I I I've been on two of them one of them because of Veronica, but Not for a while. He's the man not for a while Uh married for I used to work for a company who was making a site that was a niche dating site And uh, I hated every second of it. I hated being there. Wait, what's the one word isn't dating? It's just activity partners like where you just you want to do stuff like Yeah, I don't remember which one that is That one's creepier to me that The premise is kind of cool, right? Because it's like, hey, you know, you know Not everybody wants to just like go to a darkly lit bar and you know kind of like like You know choked on a drink and be like, I don't want to be here anymore Or you know, or you know, it's like drinks or coffee Like there's nothing in between and and sometimes people feel more comfortable like Oh, it's gonna be a group of six people going on a hike, right? And and maybe one of those people you might be interested in But it also Feels more forced. I don't know. It depends on you. Everybody's different It's like museum night everyone. Let's get together and go to the museum at night Yeah, see I don't group activities are no, thank you. Yeah, it depends. It depends on the group Totally but group activities for me with a bunch of strangers Are very anxiety inducing. Yeah, I don't like it, you know, like I might have a great time But I might not But that's like a date. I don't know. Well, it depends if it has uh Yeah, it really depends. It's all the pain of dating one person times six Well, no, but you don't have that expectation or the obligation. That's true. It does reduce the it distributes it, right? Yeah And then you can you know, like, you know, test the test the waters by making, you know, a glib comment here or there and see how it works Low-key comedians trying out the group You know, come on, I mean every every group has one whether it's like an office group or a friend group or something There's always that you know, that's Roger There's always that one person that always tries to be funny, but it's an awkward funny Hi, do you have experience with this? Yes, I do and it's not me tom. I know what I think I think I think admittedly we're all that person. Yeah, exactly. We've got four of them right here I mean, I'm the funniest but you guys I Don't even use dating apps these days, but I like to keep up on them all I like to be the resident dating app expert Nice, I like it because I want everybody to you know, to find love and find happiness We're just an activity partner It could be more than a pair. Whatever makes you happy. Exactly. Hey, there are no rules here That's a great name for an app ride the tiger Would be depressing I was wrong. Nope. No, we are Four people who can turn it around. Yeah, we're four people that make awkward comedy. We can ignore The elephant in the room like the best I don't know. All right any final words before I close the stream. No Thank you all for supporting us and And if it's not clear, you know, we were definitely whistling in the dark Here in this post show. It's it's not a pleasant day We hope that everyone involved in affected recovers And that we don't have to talk about something like this again Yeah, that'd be great Amen See you guys. Bye. Bye. See you tomorrow