 Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you very much for joining us here on a session that is very close to my heart, the economics of gender parity. We've been running a campaign on CNBC TV18 in India called Future Female Forward because we truly believe that we need to create equal opportunity workplaces and the kind of potential that you could unleash by involving women in the workforce and more women in the workforce could have a massive positive impact. In fact, that is what the World Economic Forum's data and research suggests as well. But just for the context of why we are discussing this year at the World Economic Forum's 54th annual meeting here in Davos is because progress is stalled when we talk about gender parity. So let's bring up that slide for you to tell you where we currently are. While there has been a move back to the pre-pandemic levels, if you look at us, we're still 131 years away from being able to achieve gender parity and that tells you just how complex and how challenging the issue is. There's a whole host of macroeconomic challenges that political leaders, business leaders are dealing with. And so guess what? Gender parity is not on the priority list at this point in time, but it should be because that slide tells you why it could add 12 trillion to global GDP and boost the economic output of some countries, some economies by almost 35%. So it's not just the fair thing to do, it's not just the right thing to do, it is the smart business thing to do, it is the smart economic thing to do. So without further ado, let me introduce our panelists to you here, joining us on stage, Gabriella Sommerfield, the Minister of Foreign Affairs and Human Mobility of Ecuador. Thank you very much for joining us. Also with us, Mike Henry, Chief Executive Officer of the BHP Group. Mike, great to have you. Ann Annette Mosman, Chief Executive Officer of the APG Group, coming in from Netherlands. Thank you very, very much. Just before we got started, we were having a conversation in the green room and it was odd that each one of us said that we didn't believe that we needed quotas or reservation or mandates to improve the participation of women, whether it was boardrooms or across the workplaces. And yet we've all changed our minds on that. So Mike, I'm gonna start by getting you Ann Annette to comment on that. Why did you change your mind about the need for that? So the story I was relaying on was that, so I lead BHP, world's largest mining company, workforce of about 80,000 people. And I came to the company back in 2003 and I joined the company for its values and the leadership then was very focused on a whole range of issues but included doing right by the world and one aspect of that was achieving gender parity or increasing female participation in the workforce. Well, fast forward to 2016 and we really hadn't made that much progress in spite of a whole bunch of leaders whose values were in the right place and who had invested genuine effort in this. And the global mining industry is probably about 10 to 15% female participation in the workforce. BHP was sitting at a time at about 16 to 17% and we hadn't moved the needle over 10, 12 years. Well, my predecessor is CEO came out in 2016 and said by 2025, we will have a gender balance workforce. He made that a very clear internal target but also announced it externally and held leaders to account about it. So it wasn't a negotiable, it wasn't something that was de-prioritized in the face of cost pressures. We were expected to progress towards gender equity, gender parity in BHP and we were also expected to uphold all of the other things that you would expect a large publicly listed company like BHP to be delivering in terms of profitability, other aspects of social value. And that bringing that tension to bear in the organization suddenly unlocked performance and seven years later, six, seven years later, we've increased from 16, 17% to 35%. My leadership team is fully gender balanced. We've increased female representation on the board and lo and behold, along the way, company performance has improved. So we're delivering more reliable operational performance, better financial performance and overall better safety along that way. So I've become a convert, strong supporter of needing to put firm targets in place within organizations in order to stimulate the right focus, urgency and effort to achieve the outcome. Annette, I want you to comment on that. But before that, let me just welcome to the panel, Dr. Srimulyani Indravati, the Minister of Finance of Indonesia. Thank you very much and welcome to the panel. Annette, over to you on why you changed your mind on why it's important to set a target and be held accountable to it. Yeah, maybe why I was against targets in quota. That was a decade ago and that was why I believed and that's pretty naive. We can do it on ourselves from a female point of view. We can do it on ourselves and the numbers are clear, macroeconomic, business numbers, that it is working, diversity not only through the gender but also cultural aspects and social aspects is working. So I thought if we really are running a business, it will work out and we don't need quota and targets. But the numbers here are also clear. We do need them to do the intervention, clear targets, no excuses. So targets on turnover and profits but also on diversity to improve future profits. Absolutely, but let me get the two policy leaders here on the panel to comment on what you are individually doing and Ms. Sommerfield, I start by asking you because you've put in place a purple law in Ecuador which hopes to bring in parity across different sectors. Explain to us the reason why you felt this was important, why you felt you needed to do it and what you hope to fix with this. Well, it will be very important firstly to mention what my colleagues were just saying and mentioning and mentioned also to the statistics you just saw. What it means, this parity for Latin America is 2.6 trillion and what that means for Ecuador economy is 46 billion. So it's so important to bring this gender parity to our countries and to our lives for more productivity and a better economy for everybody. But what Ecuador has been doing, firstly, we created a minister, a new minister who takes care about women and who takes care about violence and who is looking after education capacities for women and also access for financing which is very important and for technology. That's very important in order to start changing women's life and they to become part of the economy. But also we have this new law and the new law was supported by our actual president. He became president after he created and put this law through our assembly like he's kind of a congress, he's our congress. So he pushes this law for this purple law and then he became president. And once he became president, what he did it is he practiced what he was willing to do through the law. The law empowers women, open access to women to different important cargos. I mean, to important places where women can take decisions and be part of the system in the same level as men. And the first day he became president, half of his ministries are women. I'm part of that statistics. So I don't know how many countries... Not just the statistics, much more than the statistics. So how many countries around the world does have half of the ministries are women? And what we can see is that we're working very, very, very hard and we feel just the same. We have the same boys, we have the same empowerment and it's really great, the dynamics. And another special thing about Ecuador is that the average age in the ministries are 40 years. That means there's a lot of young people that brings a different dynamic, innovation, lots of energy. They have a new vision of the new world because we're living in a new world. So this is very important. Through the law, regarding your question, I'm sorry for all the things that I talked before, through the law, a very important cooperation with privates, a community, a community come to action. I mean, privates have been working very hard with government to create opportunities for women, to create new jobs for them, to empower them through education, through financial access and through technology. So what we're looking is that privates are the one that are bringing the laws to action to the real world and that's very important. Well, thank you very much for giving us a sense of what the purple law intends to do as well as sharing your story with us. But let me get Minister Indravathi representing Indonesia and it's good to see emerging economies like India and Indonesia having women finance ministers and that's something that we, that's an additional commonality that we have. But what are the interventions that have taken place that are working to increase the participation of women in the workforce? What's the kind of change that you've seen in economic output in order for this to translate into something that is done at scale? Well, first it's good to be finance minister in which we see quite a lot of now women become finance minister. When I start, it was only me and maybe Christine Lagarde. Now you can see many women become finance ministers. That seems a lot. In terms of the policy for the Indonesia, we mainstream the gender equality as well as empowering of the gender within our medium term development program. And for finance minister, we also try to put more because if you cannot measure, then you cannot make a progress. That's why within the budget, we are introducing the budget tagging that is identifying whether the budget is really providing a lot of support for the gender. So gender targeting tagging within the budget is being introduced and this has become now to the local government, 42% of our local government. Indonesia is a big country, not as big as India or China, but still big. We have 540 provincial, local and municipality. So 42 now is already introducing budget tagging for the gender. You mentioned about how, because if you look at the woman participation in the labor force in Indonesia, it's still quite stagnant. It is because of both the woman in terms of the scale as well as the opportunity to supply and demand, they have to be addressed both in terms of what is the obstacle for these two component of issue. On the supply side, so the government need to use the fiscal tools, including also regulation and policy to improve the scale of the woman from the very basic that is Indonesia, mortality of the delivery of the woman as well as the infant mortality, that's also very close to the woman. This need to be addressed and we allocate quite a lot of budget in terms of the health facility. We also introducing the scholarship now, if we look at the higher education scholarship, 52%, it's actually enjoyed by the woman. This is to the best university in the world. We also providing all the social safety net program which is based on gender. So for example, like the Family Hope Program, this is for the bottom 20% of the family. We are going to pay cash transfer transfer to this household, especially which is headed by woman. This is make sure that they are going to spend this cash transfer for their family rather than, for example, for the head of the household with this male, not to offense the male colleague here, but they usually use money for buying a cigarette and so on first rather than for the nutrition of their children. So we also introduce quite a lot of access of capital. So this is on the demand side, how the woman which is mostly working in the informal sector, just our colleague in Ecuador, then we are going to provide access through the subsidized rate of the interest. This is especially for the ultra micro, which is more than 7.5 million now have the access and 90% is actually headed by the woman in this case. So these are all on the supply side in which the woman will be empowered in terms of access of capital, their own skill, opportunity, this is on their supply side. On the demand side, I think there are quite a lot of things that we need to continue promoting through the private sector in terms of the policy on diversity, whether on the board as well as employment opportunity. Interestingly, if you look at the Indonesia case, if you look at the education, many of the women or girls, they participating in education, participation rate is now close or more than 100%. They also academically, the achievement is always better girls than boys, but they are not pursuing career. Many of them drop out, especially because of when they are getting married and have children. So on the demand side, you have to provide not the general neutrality, but general affirmation because of the woman have a different situation than the man when they are going to the work or job in this case. So the maternity leave, the lactation place, childcare, these are all being introduced. In the minister of finance, I myself, I've already introduced to all my office in the many places in Indonesia that they have mandatory, have the maternity leave, lactation place, childcare, so that we are preventing women to drop out on their early career. And that will allow us to have more women on the top position. No, you're absolutely right in pointing that out. And I think that these, many of the issues that you brought up, these are common across different economies, whether it's India or even in the developed world, the lack of maternity leave and so on and so forth are problems or interventions that are much needed. So there are fiscal tools that are monetary tools and there is of course the carrot and steak approach as well, setting accountability, setting targets to ensure that we move the needle. But Annette, let me put this question to you because we're talking about economic empowerment as well. From a venture capital point of view, from a private equity point of view, from a financialization of women point of view, how do we get more women to participate in the financial markets? How do we get more women to get access to kind of venture funding to be able to start up if they wanted to? And we're starting to see that happen, but we need a lot more of that to go through as well. Yeah, exactly. You're pointing out two things. First, we were discussing that also before. I think it's very important that we are investor. We invest 500 billion. If you look at our portfolio managers, we have a very good system in place being you have to look at of course risk and return, but also at the impact side and how many also the social and gender parity is part of that. But all those portfolio managers are male, most of them. So we're having a lot of trouble getting portfolio managers in the teams who are evaluating the investments. Knowing that, and that's also why I'm saying target. So how can you do it then from our point of view is what we're doing now and together with ABP, who's the pension fund. We have 30 million euros only for women in the southern part of our world. So we try to encourage entrepreneurship. I think it's now over 600,000 women and girls helping to set up a business. But this is more or less one time, not because we don't want to invest more, but it's taken a lot of time and energy and cost, therefore, to do these investments. But if you look at the performance, it's great. So we should find our way to navigate more capital towards women entrepreneurs. I think what I do see is what I just said. You don't have that many women portfolio managers, but you do have a lot of private equity funds run by women. And they don't want to work in that culture but running into another culture, in their own culture, and they're funding women entrepreneurs. So I think that these are very good initiatives. But at the core, in the places where the big capitals are being navigated towards companies, I think there should change something. Well, speaking of change and minister Somofi, let me ask you this, because you've had private sector experience and now you're, of course, part of the government in Ecuador. What is the ask? What is the hope? What's the expectation from the private sector? How do you believe the government and the private sector can work together? Can there be a convergence to address some of these issues that we just spoke of? Because this underinvestment continues otherwise. Yes, what we have to understand, firstly, is what does government do and what does the private sector do? When we understand what's the role of each one, then they can cooperate because each one has a different role. Government will mention and says, which is the policy, which is the regulation, and we'll see that it can land into action. And private are the ones that will actually do what the country is willing to do. So what I can say right now is that it is important that there is a good communication and cooperation. When it will fail, when there is no communication, when there is no understanding, what the country wants to do, what the role of the private is, and what the role of the government is. So that's very important. What I'm doing in the government after being in the private and what the expectations are is we need to work in another frequency mentioning that we need to act faster than what we have been doing. And we have to take different decisions in order we can develop in a better way. Ecuador is having a hard time. It's not part of this panel, what is happening in Ecuador. But it's good to mention that it's having a really hard time. And due to security issues, we cannot develop as the way that we need to develop. So I decided, I decided, and our president decided that we should take another role so we can bring the needs from the private to the public. We can put new policies in order we can develop in a better and in a different way that we were doing before and take hard decisions. And for taking hard decisions that will impact everybody's in our country, there is a need to become part and take action also from the public side. It's not easy for the ones that have been in the private always. It's not easy to leave the side of taking your own decisions at your time, at your risk, and doing the things that you want to do to develop a company. This something different is what we're working for is the country, is the public side. We're working for others, and especially for the most needed ones. But we need to do that sometime, at some point in our life to make changes better for more people to become more efficient. Yes, and it is important for you to be able to take the learnings from the private sector, as you said, to bring in more agility and nimbleness as far as government decision making is concerned, which also includes the decisions around parity. But Mike, let's talk about the future. And let's talk about this in the context of the many transitions that we are seeing in the world today, whether it's the energy transition, it's the climate transition, and the role that parity or gender parity will play in all of this, along with, of course, the changes that we're seeing on account of AI coming in. As you look at the jobs of the future, what do you do at the design stage to ensure that we do have parity moving forward? And again, just to set a little bit of the context here, the energy transition is only going to happen with a lot more metals and minerals. So two times as much copper over the next 30 years is the past 30. Four times as much nickel. Two times as much iron ore, and the list goes on and on. And that extra supply is needing to be met by new mines that are smaller, deeper, more complex. And so the workforce required to meet that new supply is going to be larger than the workforce of today by some margin. And it's going to be a different skilled workforce because of the development of technology and so on. And therefore, the challenge for companies like BHP is how do we go about staffing up for that challenge? And that requires significant training. So just to achieve what we've already achieved at BHP, of course, we've changed our recruiting practices. We've opened up flexible work. We've undertaken about 8,000 or 9,000 pay equity reviews and so on and so forth. But one of the biggest things that we've done is we've focused on the strategic opportunities to stand up, coming back to the question about design, to stand up new mines or new investments that we're undertaking on a fully gender balanced basis from the get go. So right now we're deploying about $11 billion US into a potash development in Canada. That workforce, with production starting in 2026, will be gender balanced from the start. Now in order to achieve that, of course, we need to look at equipment design, work practices, the culture that we're establishing, and we need to invest heavily in training. If I then come back to the point around the energy transition, because the energy transition is going to require a lot more metals and minerals, there's a macro opportunity there for industry and governments to be working together in a way that capitalizes on that opportunity to establish a more balanced workforce that shares the value created by these investments on a more equitable basis. And that's, we're talking here about the context of gender equity. But of course the same thing applies to how we think about the value that gets created for the communities that surround these mining developments as well. And in a world where societal tolerance of inequitable sharing of value has gone way down and their ability to take action when they're frustrated by the way things are playing out has grown, I think it's increasingly important for our industry, and there's a lot of work underway around this, to ensure that when we are accessing new resources and developing those mines, we do so in a way that's sustainable, that creates greatest possible value for all stakeholders involved. And in the case of gender equity, to ensure that we really pay attention to how we go about opening up opportunity, equal opportunity for women in these developments, and to ensure that the mines are developed with a gender balanced workforce. Minnesan Indravati, let me put that question to you since we're talking about economic opportunities that are opening up. And I ask you this in the context of the supply chain de-risking and diversification that's underway currently, of which a country like Indonesia is also a beneficiary. So how are you at the design stage ensuring that across manufacturing you open up more jobs for women that you do have gender balance across the workforce. Are there measures that the government is trying to put in place, along with the private sector to ensure that? Well, I think in terms of the woman is in terms of the labor force, I don't see that this is really a problem of the woman to get opportunity to have a skill or in this case training to be able to then assume this responsibility. At least there is no discrimination on that. It's more the discrimination is because naturally they are going to drop off. So the trade off of the time are located for the woman to continue pursue career and have a family has become a real big issue for the Indonesia. And that's really need to be addressed. But apart from that, from the government point of view policy and regulation is very important, making sure that the signaling of providing the equal opportunity is really there or even in this case, it's not just general neutral because general neutral maybe it sounds good but not really good enough for women because you are in a asymmetric world at this very moment. So you really have to tilt the balance less neutral or more affirmative for the gender. But I would like to say that the manufacturing is one thing for the Indonesia. Informal sector is more dominated by the woman. On the formal sector, why is informal sector dominated by women? My guess is not only just the opportunity which is limited but also because with the informal sector, you have more flexibility in term of the time that you can manage between your own that is family as well as the job. And then I would like to link with your previous question in terms of the digital economy and AI. I believe that this can democratizing and providing more empowerment for the woman. After the pandemic, a lot of work has been actually using the digital technology and Indonesia investing quite a lot on a hard infrastructure as well as soft infrastructure. In this case, this has become a very important momentum for the woman. Women now feel that, oh, I can do still the job at home but also having access both on a capital as well as market or even in terms of the skill. Because we providing, for example, during this pandemic, pre-employment card, this is for those who's already unemployed during the pandemic, we provide cash transfer and also training. Out of 17 million, again, 51% are participated by the woman. And that's showing that they are maybe heavily affected due to the pandemic more to the woman side. But also at the same time, they see the new opportunity with this digital technology that I can overcome this asymmetric impact of this pandemic. So we really see this digital economy as one that can create a different momentum for the woman. And that's why data protection is important. In this case, all the regulation, which is making sure that they are going to be able to enjoy this benefit of digital technology without suffering from the downside risk. I think that's gonna be very important. Financial inclusion, financial literacy, access to the capital, that is going to be very important. But if you're talking about the formal sector, as you mentioned, I think we have to really look at the labor market at the whole. For Indonesia, interestingly, if you can see, the first time the association of the employer in Indonesia headed by woman. This is the first time in the history of Indonesia. It's always male headed in the previous period. We also have, if you have an energy sector in Indonesia, the biggest SOE on energy is headed, the CEO is a woman. The CFO also a woman. Electricity company, this is the biggest monopoly, the CFO is also a woman. So these are all a very powerful position which is going to provide a signal to many because I will not underestimate the role model. If they see that a certain position used to be only dominated and taken by man and now taken by woman and they can perform really well, it's not only inspiring but motivating many of the girls and women to say that, oh, now I can actually get that one. I think on that formal sector, apart from training, skill and then lessening the straight up on the timing, they also still continue need to have this very effective role modeling because for them what is impossible in the past now become possible. In this area, we just, in the past being seen no woman's zone, now become a woman's zone. Well, that is very powerful. I think both you, Annette and of course, Minister Somofild are examples of those role models and as is Mike, because you've been able to push the needle and make the change, we need both. We need role models and allies across the spectrum and it's great to have each one of you here. But Annette, as you look out into the future now and especially as far as the financial markets are concerned, the business that you're part of, what are the changes that you believe we need to make to ensure that we will see better representation? You talked about the lack of portfolio managers. It's not a skill issue necessarily. What do you believe will be the key interventions that we need to prioritize as of today? It's not, well, from my part, it's not always one intervention. There will be more. I think we talked about a lot, creating the circumstances for women. I think, as you said, that digitalization is a real opportunity and history shows that if you can't bring the work a bit closer to home, women participation is increasing. We did that during agriculture times. So why did women participation decrease? That was because work went out of the home. And I think also one other thing is, I call it, it's not about time. I know in a career where women get children and more caretaking job activities, it's the flexibility. It's not really the time, but the flexibility which you need. So for employers, it's very important to realize that, give an opportunity to work from home and the flexibility from a trust point of view that work is to be done. That can't always be done in certain sectors, I admit. But I think that these are also very important. And from my point of view, 50% of our board is female, so I strongly also strongly believe in role modeling, but also the pipelines, filling the pipelines with talents and keeping them, and I always say, female leadership is a question for men and women. Yes, absolutely. So it should be fostered, female talent should be fostered by men. And we're different and that is our strengths because that's why you have diversity. But that means at certain times that we don't raise our hands or we need a little push or it needs to be approached in a different way. So like we do in leadership program, unconscious bias and making very clear where the differences are and you can break that through. So there are a lot of fields in the public, in the private and as investor, I think what we're doing next to climate but putting the real good governance and the right mix of diversity into boards and also in all the teams as a real target and a key KPI. As a key target and a key KPI, and we were talking about technology and biases and just yesterday I was talking to a tech CEO who was talking about how they're using technology now to deal or address some of these unconscious biases, especially at the hiring level and perhaps we will see a lot more of that as we move through the process of more digitization. But I think we have a few moments now if we could open this up for questions. If we do have, yes, we do have a couple of hands up here. If you can get a microphone here to the lady in the orange and then I'll come to the gentleman at the back. Hi, thank you very much. I'm Mia Perdomo, I'm the CEO of Iqualis. We measure and consult companies in Latin America to have gender equality and diversity conditions. And we created a ranking because we discovered that companies like competing against each other, which is fine. So we decided if that's the way they're gonna go to gender equality, then that would be it. And that's how we got 2000 to compete. However, there are many other corporations that go under the radar, which are SMEs or are even informal that aren't even registered. And I was wondering how you think that we can tackle that. I know that some of you work in government, others don't, but even for big corporations it's hard to get their supply chain to go into our ranking because they're smaller and because they have other sort of policies. So how do we go further into all sorts of corporations and informal work so that they have policies and practices that lead to gender equality? Thank you. Mike, would you like to take that? So we would love to because of course it's something that we focus on as well. Just like in the case of climate change, we focus on carbon emissions in the full supply chain and we stimulate through the commercial contracts that we put in place, action both upstream and downstream from the business. It's the same on gender equality. And so we track the, or we try to stimulate through our commercial agreements and frankly through the conversations that we have at a CEO to CEO level or further down on our respective organizations, a focus on increasing female participation in the suppliers to BHP. Just last week I had one of our partners pitching to me all the work that they've done for BHP over the course of the past year and talking about the work that we might do together. Well, the final section of their report was all on what they're doing internally to increase female participation and female representation in the client-facing roles that they have as, and they're a big global firm. But we do that at all levels with all sorts of organizations. Now getting them into a ranking, that wasn't, I wasn't aware of the ranking you're speaking about, but that's something that I'm sure we would be willing to engage on to see if that's something that we can reinforce through the contracting strategies that we adopt. You may? Yes, please. Maybe from a European perspective. I think we, I'm not calling for more legislation, but the European laws like CSRD, it's about double materiality and it's the responsibility for you as a company to follow up the complete chain. So we will get that in place in two years' time in Europe. So we have to look at the chain and also along this perspective. So sometimes we were talking about targets and quota, but also here sometimes legislation helps to take that responsibility as a company, not only for your own activities and what you're doing, but also for the complete chain. Absolutely, and help out the ecosystem that you work with as well. Yes, go ahead, sir. We'll just get a microphone across to you. Perfect. Hello. My name is Robert Beamish. I'm a global shaper from the Ottawa Hub. Thank you. I'm really glad to hear, especially from the financial sector and the mining sector, which are traditionally male dominated industries. And we talked a lot about the quantitative side of gender parity. I'm really curious about the qualitative side around how we go once we have gender parity, we have more women in the workforce, how we build that environment around preventing harassment, around building retention and the benefits that come with that. As well, I'm very curious, Mr. Henry, what you see as the role of a male allyship in building gender parity. So if I can respond to that question. I think the first point that you made around the environment that we create, I don't believe that you can achieve a balanced workforce without addressing the factors that you've mentioned. You can make some progress, but you will fall backwards very quickly. It will manifest itself as higher turnover attrition for the females in the workforce. So one of the metrics that we track very closely is male attrition versus female attrition. And we started off with female attrition being about double males in the workforce, and we've brought that down to parity through a lot of work on culture. Now some of that is simply through the way that people relate to each other on a database is making that more inclusive. But there are some really hard and unacceptable behaviors that have occurred in the mining industry in the past, and frankly occur outside, across all industries. We've had line of sight on that and have taken very firm steps, including increasing camp security, because oftentimes with mine sites, people are working in remote locations, setting very clear behavioral standards, putting in place formal investigative teams internally, such that when complaints are made, those get followed up with a formal investigation, they can be actioned. So all of that needs to come in lockstep with the focus on creating a more balanced workforce. And that's been one of the reasons that we've been successful. I don't think we'd be where we are today if not for having focused on that. Yes, there's a question right there. If you can stand up, they'll get you in the microphone. Thank you so much, panel, and very heartening stories about how the diversity efforts are going in the right direction. My question is there's also a new narrative that is coming up, and especially in the United States, about DEI and these aspects being challenged, and you see at least in the academic institutions and many other corporations about work, work capitalism, and diversity. So with that challenge, how do you see that coming into other aspects? And do you think diversity is challenged? And if it is, what is our role in that? Annette, would you like to take that? Or the ministers? Yeah. I would like to take that. You're talking from an American perspective. I'm not very clear on what's happening there, but I think diversity is challenged. And especially when you look in Europe with all the more popular and polarization, more popular political parties and polarization, I do think, but I have such a strong belief that the answer is also in the diversity, the complexity of the problems we're having if you talk about climate, the polarization, all the wars. I think diversity is the answer to a complex problem. So it is challenged. And maybe we should step up and lean in more often, but I think it's the only way out for this world. Well, yes. There is always a challenge for this diversity because you change something which is already commonly adopted and norm. And that's why it is very important to continue making this dialogue and conversation to be very honest, whether you are coming from the religious, cultural, or any of those social norm, they are still there. And if you go and pushing a change, there will be always a reaction and there is always also a setback in this case. So I'm not commenting on the US politics and those discussion, but in many other society, there will always a setback. And that's why breaking the glass rule is very, very important because then you see that what is impossible before, it's become possible now. It is not sacrificing the quality as asking by the gentleman in this case, but you are just making a change which in the past, for many of the woman and girl, it is impossible and now become possible. Well, yes, I'm gonna give you the last word, Mike, go ahead. So this is perhaps a business CEO perspective, but for us, this has all been about the business case. And it's been very clear that when we pursued this, it was because we believed it would lead to better business performance. And that's exactly what we've seen happen. And it kind of goes to the question raised by the gentleman earlier about, well, what's changed by way of your culture and the practices that you have in place? In order to create or to increase female participation in the workforce, we've needed to create a more inclusive culture. That more inclusive culture has unlocked the potential of both women and men in the workforce. It's brought more creativity to the fore that has led to better underlying business performance. And we've seen it in our ability to operate more reliably and to deliver better results than the industry average over that period of time. So the business case to me is strong at a corporate level, let alone the higher order economic opportunity that you flagged earlier. Well, I think that is the perfect note to end this conversation because I think it links back to where we started, that there is the perfect case for us to move forward as governments, as organizations, as individuals to push for greater parity across each of the sectors that we operate in. Thank you so much for sharing very real, tangible insights on what you've done within your organizations, within your governments to try and change things. Change is hard. It takes time, but it also requires tremendous amount of commitment, passion, and of course, purpose as well. So we look forward to hearing more from each one of you. And thank you so much for sharing your stories and for asking some very important and interesting questions here to take the conversation forward. Once again, thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, for joining us here this afternoon. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.