 The next item of business is a statement by Jean Freeman on clinical waste services. The cabinet secretary will take questions at the end of her statement so there should be no interventions or interruptions. I call on Jean Freeman for 10 minutes, please, cabinet secretary. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I am grateful for this opportunity to update members on the current situation on clinical waste services for the NHS in Scotland and to set out the action that the Scottish Government has taken to support NHS Scotland and those staff who lost their jobs following healthcare environmental services limited, ceasing its business operations in December of last year. As members are aware, there has been considerable interest in both Scotland and England in recent weeks on clinical waste services to the health service and, in particular, on healthcare environmental services limited, a company based on shots who until recently operated contracts with NHS boards and NHS trusts across the country. Clinical waste is a niche sector that requires specialist equipment, facilities and staff to manage the whole process from collection through transportation and storage and on to final disposal and incineration. Since 2009, healthcare environmental services have provided those services to our NHS. However, following concerns raised by NHS England around significant backlogs of waste being stored and enforcement notices placed on his sites in England, we understood that there was a possibility of a potential disruption to services in Scotland. In August 2018, officials from the Department of Health and Social Care in England contacted the Scottish Government, raising concerns of the amount of clinical waste collected from NHS England's sites and being stored at healthcare environmental services at sites in England. The volume of waste stored and being reported by the Environment Agency were in the region of 7,800 tonnes, some of which breached storage conditions and or exceeded maximum storage times. In October, 15 NHS trusts in England terminated contracts with his with more reporting missed or late collections. At that time, his sites in Scotland were not in breach of any environmental permits, licences or storage limits. However, on 12 September last year, SIPA, as part of routine monitoring and inspection activities, issued two enforcement notices to his related to the tracking and management of waste, with two further enforcement notices issued on 11 December relating to the storage of waste. The Scottish Government, NHS Scotland and SIPA were closely monitoring the situation and were in close contact with authorities in England. Given the serious nature of the emerging situation, the Scottish Government directed NSS to ensure a national contingency plan, building on local board arrangements would be ready for use in the event of any disruption to NHS waste collection services in Scotland. NSS were in contact with the company HES during this period to ensure that they were able to deliver their contractual obligations. The company repeatedly provided assurance that it could meet those contract obligations, but, on 7 December, HES advised NHS boards in Scotland that it was, and I quote, unable to continue to provide clinical waste services with immediate effect. As required in the contract terms and conditions, HES was given up to 20 days to resume normal service, but the company failed to do so, and the company gave notice that it had ceased trading from 27 December. It was the company that breached its contracts with 18 NHS boards, leaving Scotland's A&E departments, our hospitals, our community health centres, GP practices and dentures without essential clinical waste services. However, with the planning work already in place, full contingency arrangements were operationalised across NHS Scotland to ensure that boards, GPs, dentists and others received the service. Those contingency arrangements continue and involve a range of companies in Scotland and across the UK working with NHS Scotland staff. National services Scotland and NHS boards are closely monitoring local and national arrangements and have acted quickly to resolve any emerging issues. The contingency arrangements are also subject to robust checks by SEPA and the Department of Transport to ensure that all regulatory requirements are met. Throughout, our priority has been to ensure measures are in place so that NHS Scotland can continue to receive clinical waste services and that public safety is assured. There have been no reports that patient care has been affected or that public safety is compromised, and we are working to ensure that that remains the case. My thanks go to those staff who are working to support those arrangements. Contingency measures and ultimately maintaining NHS services come at a cost. The Scottish Government has provided £1.4 million towards initial contingency planning and the NHS is leading on managing contingency arrangements on behalf of health boards. Under the terms and conditions of contract, health boards are entitled to reclaim costs incurred from his and they will seek to do so. The new process for a new national contract for all NHS clinical waste management services in Scotland started in 2017 with tenders invited in 2018. The process is nearing completion and final contract details and an implementation plan are being agreed with Tradibe healthcare limited and should be concluded by the end of this month. The new contract is effective from the first of April this year for a period of up to 10 years and with a value estimated at 100 million. My apologies, Presiding Officer. I believe that that should be 10 million. Introducing a single national contract covering all health boards will further improve how NHS waste is managed and offers a range of community educational and employment benefits. A new single national contract will bring various benefits to NHS boards and communities over the next 10 years and we are in a good position going forward. There are, however, still significant issues yet to be resolved outside of ensuring NHS provision but relating directly to health environmental services, including supporting former employees, work that is being led by the Minister for Business, Fair Work and Skills and maintaining environmental standards at his sites in shots and indeed work led by the Cabinet Secretary for the Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform with support from SIPA. I know that across this chamber our thoughts are with the employees who lost their jobs at Christmas. That says without question a very difficult time for them and their families. The Scottish Government has provided and promotes a range of support, including finding alternative employment and accessing redundancy payments, including offering workforce support to HES for its employees in November last year, which was not accepted until 27 December and support to more than 125 employees. An event arranged at the Salvation Army Centre in Shots on 3 and 4 January and in Dundee on 10 January. Feedback from that event suggested that a number of employees have already managed to secure new work. Members, as I know, will be pleased to know that of the 262 staff across Scotland and England entitled to redundancy payments, 244 have now received payments that they are entitled to from the redundancy payment service. RPS will then try and reclaim those costs from the company. Former employees who have set up an action group called at help healthcare had a constructive meeting last week with the Minister for Business to discuss a range of issues. The group has written directly to its former employers, asking them to do the right thing and pay staff wages that were owed for December. The Minister for Business also wrote to the managing director seeking agreement to approach the company's bankers on the same issue, but that has been refused. In terms of environmental issues, as has already stated, HES was subject to four environmental enforcement actions in Scotland and several more in England. It is essential therefore that SEPA continue to monitor sites in Shots and Dundee to ensure that there is no risk to the public. SEPA is also continuing to seek regulatory compliance from HES to ensure that the sites are cleared safely and always disposed of appropriately should that become necessary. At present, there is no significant environmental risk and no risk to the wellbeing of local communities. In closing, I want to say that Scotland's health services were placed at risk as a result of HES breaching its contract. Contingency arrangements developed in anticipation of just such an eventuality, developed in consultation with NSS, SEPA and a range of other partners ensured that there was no disruption to front-line services. The Scottish Government will continue to support former employees to access the monies that are owed and the benefits to which they may be entitled, but that relies heavily on the co-operation of the company's directors. SEPA will continue to monitor the Shots and Dundee sites to safeguard the public and local communities and will take enforcement action should that be required. Finally, let me reiterate my thanks to those involved in ensuring that the collections of clinical waste from NHS sites across Scotland continue and that front-line patient services remain interrupted. I thank and best wishes to former employees of HES, who are being supported at this difficult time for them and their families. I know that you will understand how important it is that the chamber gets the right figure in relation to the new contract that you mentioned. I wonder if you would like to confirm that figure for the chamber, please, before we go any further. Yes, and my apologies, Presiding Officer. It's a typing mistake and one that, in my proofreading, I didn't spot. It should be £10 million. Thank you very much. I presume that that's now clear for everyone. The cabinet secretary will now take questions on the issues raised in her statement. I'll allow around 20 minutes for that and then we'll move on to the next item of business. It would be helpful if members who wish to ask a question could please press the request-to-speak buttons now, and I call Miles Briggs. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'd like to start by thanking the cabinet secretary for advance sight of her statement this afternoon. However, there are many unanswered questions that the SNP must answer today. Firstly, I'd like to ask what steps have been taken to protect and train NHS staff who are currently being tasked with handling hazardous clinical waste in our hospitals, something that is not mentioned in the statement this afternoon. Secondly, under the proposals that have been outlined today by the cabinet secretary, can she now confirm that all Scottish clinical waste will now need to be transported to England for incineration? What additional costs will that have for Scottish taxpayers? The cabinet secretary has outlined £10 million today, given that what we've seen might be closer to £100 million by the time that fiasco is cleared up. Finally, can the cabinet secretary confirm that all clinical, hazardous clinical waste is now being transported in vehicles designed to transport clinical waste and that all are displaying hazardous load signage? Thank you, Presiding Officer. I thank Mr Briggs for his question. Let me start by saying that if there is a fiasco here at all, it is not one of this Government's making. Indeed, the fact that those services have continued is thanks to the anticipatory measures of having a contingency plan. Any break in services was caused by a private sector company failing to honour its contract. It is important that we understand that and not something that this Government caused or created. In terms of protecting NHS staff and training NHS staff, NHS staff have always had an involvement in the collection and getting ready for onward collection of clinical waste, and that continues. Where additional measures have been asked of them, the boards have risked assessed those. We will have discussed those through the partnership forum that exists in our boards, which is where discussions take place with staff and trade unions, and where, for example, in the case in Inverness, where porters were injured as a consequence of their involvement in that, the board in Highland looked at that matter very quickly, indeed, undertook measures to ensure that it could not happen again, and indeed employed an additional member of staff to assist in that work. In terms of transportation for incineration, yes, the transportation is for incineration south of the border, as was the case, prior to the contract being broken by HES, with the exception of, in the latter stages of their contract, the sites that they had for incineration in shots. Obviously, since they have ceased trading, those facilities are not available currently in the interim arrangements, and, yes, all the transportation has to meet the regulatory requirements of both SIPA and the transport department to ensure that they meet the standards that are required. NSS is responsible for ensuring that that is the case, and that they are meeting those requirements at this point. When the UK Government convened a Cobra meeting, we all feared that this clinical waste scandal could affect our NHS in Scotland, the workforce of healthcare and environmental services limited, and indeed our communities. Devastatingly, those workers who kept our NHS operating were dumped by their bosses at Christmas without any pay or notice. The contingency planning has not benefited those workers. NHS boards had continued to put money into HES's bank account, but rather than pay staff what they were owed in wages, people have been left to rely on food banks. When did the Government know that this company was in serious trouble? What pre-emptive steps did it take to protect the workforce? What is the cost of contingency plans to health boards? And when were boards' advice to stop paying HES limited? Given that NHS still retains a duty of care for the stockpiled waste, what negotiations are taking place with HES limited and other relevant parties over the future of the sites at Shotsons and E? Jeane Freeman. I'm grateful to Ms Lennon for those questions. There were a number of them. I hope I've got them all, but please let me know if I haven't. In terms of—I'm going to repeat this—we are in this situation because a private sector company breached its contract. In terms of NHS continuing to put money into the bank account of HES, NHS Scotland paid the money that was owed for the services that were delivered up to the point when HES ended and breached its contract. That is perfectly right, so you have a bill, you are due to pay the bill, you pay the bill. In terms of the future of the sites at Dundee and Shots, this is a very difficult situation in terms of being able to have discussions and negotiations with the company because the company has ceased trading but has not put itself into insolvency. That is part of the real difficulty that the employees face. They are owed those December wages. As I said in my statement, my colleague Mr Hepburn has attempted to intervene and ensure that they are paid those wages, but we need the company's permission to speak to the bank, their own bank, and that has been refused. The Government has acted and indeed offered pay support. As I said in my statement from November last year to the company, it was not accepted until 27 December. We cannot just walk into a site in that way. We do not and nor should we have those direct powers, so those matters are the matters that get resolved by co-operation and discussion, and if the other party will not co-operate and discuss, then you are a bit stuck. In terms of NHS Scotland and the continued safe removal and disposal of clinical waste, I have outlined that we took the necessary pre-emptive measures by ensuring that we would have a contingency plan at a point when there were clear difficulties with the NHS England and that company. We were able to operationalise those contingency plans. Despite the company having assured us on 7 December that it could meet its contract obligations but on 20 December telling us that it could not. In a very short space of time, we moved to do that. I think that I have probably missed one of your questions. Perhaps one of your colleagues, if they are going to make a statement or ask me a question, could pick that up for you, and I will be sure to answer it. The first two questions and answers have understandably taken a long time. There was a lot of content there, so we will have to be a bit quicker if we are going to get through them all. On 12 September last year, SEPA issued two enforcement notices, and they followed those with a further two on 11 December. Within a couple of weeks, the company has given notice that it had ceased trading. Just for clarity, are we to understand that the Government and its agencies were completely unaware of this impending crisis, and how frequent were SEPA's inspections up to the point at which the situation became critical? I have never said that this Government was completely unaware, but otherwise we would not have taken the necessary steps in knowing that there were difficulties between the company and health trusts in NHS England. We would never have taken the necessary steps to ensure that, should there be a difficulty in Scotland in fulfilling the contract, we had contingency plans in order to continue to ensure that clinical waste was uplifted, stored and disposed of in a way that protected both patient and public safety. So, as soon as it became clear that there were difficulties south of the border, we understood, as I think I said in my statement, that there was the potential for problems in Scotland, but at that point there was no significant difficulty. SEPA, as part of its normal inspection process and in terms of the frequency, I am happy to check exactly what that frequency was over the contract period, and I advise Ms Johnson of that specific number. However, in terms of its regular inspection process, it issued initially those two enforcement notices and subsequently two further enforcement notices. Of course, the company has time to comply with those notices, but on 7 December it advised us that it could not meet its contract obligations. We gave it the 20 days that it is entitled to to get back into a place where it could. On 27 December, it advised us that it would cease trading. Healthcare and environmental services also held the contract for the disposal of animal remains and clinical waste from Edinburgh Zoo in my constituency. Are there still animal remains at the shot site? What other non-NHS contracts did the company serve, and what contingency is being offered to those companies to facilitate the safe disposal of their clinical waste? My understanding, but I will check this and return to Mr Cole-Hamilton on this matter, is that where there is clinical waste for disposal, whether it is of animal or human origin, the contingency arrangements are picking up on that obligation. In terms of other non-NHS contracts that the company had, I do not have that information. I do not know if we do, as a Government, hold that information. That would be company information, so I am unable to give Mr Cole-Hamilton that information to him this afternoon. We are more than halfway through the session. I have a little bit extra time, but not much, so please, short questions and answers, please. Fulton Greger, followed by Brian Whittle. The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport will be aware of reports of a build-up of clinical waste at a Coatbridge health centre in my constituency. I raised that as a supplementary in this chamber last week. The local paper advertiser has since again highlighted the issue and has a wide circulation. Can the Cabinet Secretary outline if the arrangements being put in place will prevent any future build-up of waste? My understanding is that collections have returned to normal and are being monitored on a daily basis by NSS. There was clinical waste backed up at NHS sites and that was due to a diminution in service from HES prior to ceasing trading and before the new arrangements were put in place. Of course, those new arrangements, in some instances, took a little bit of time to bed in, but now my understanding is that collections have returned to normal, backlog has been cleared and they are being monitored on a daily basis. Last week, the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport, Zana Cunningham, estimated that the total clearance and disposal cost would be around £250,000. I note from your statement, Cabinet Secretary, that the Scottish Government has provided £1.4 million towards the initial contingency planning. I think that with that in mind, are you confident that the costs will not continue to rise exponentially? The £1.4 million, as Mr Whittle rightly says, is towards the initial contingency planning and the NSS has now taken over the management of the contingency arrangements. Of course, what that means is that our boards are no longer paying HES for services that they are not receiving. When we get to the end of the contingency period and the new contract starts, we will be able to rebalance the funding between what our boards would have normally paid to HES for the months in which contingency arrangements and the amount of money that NSS has paid out to cover contingency arrangements at that point, I will know if there is any gap between what would normally have been paid and what we have had to pay in contingency arrangements. Of course, contingency arrangements carry additional costs because you have to bring in trailers, additional storage facilities and so on in order to make sure that you can continue to deliver the service. When we get to the end of the contingency period and the new contract begins with the new contractor, I will be able to give Mr Whittle and other members of the chamber both the exact cost of the contingency arrangements in full, how that is balanced against what our boards would have normally paid to HES and whether there is a deficit between those two figures. Alex Neil, followed by Jenny Marra. As a constituency member for Shots, I thank the Scottish Government for all the tremendous help that it has given so far to the workers who have lost their jobs at Haswick Rigg in Shots. Can I ask the cabinet secretary if we can persuade the Government to give further assistance? Neil Graham, my colleague and I have brought in specialist lawyers and it will take 69 months before people actually get their wages back and other payments that are due going through the normal employment tribunal process. Is there any way that some pressure can be brought to bear to speed up the process? Secondly, a very specific question for the cabinet secretary for ELF could she, when the new contract is being awarded, put some pressure on the new contractor to give priority to recruiting former HES workers to carry out the new contract particularly as Tupi does not apply in this case. On the first part of Mr Neil's question, I would suggest that I ask my colleague, Mr Hepburn, to respond in writing to Mr Neil in terms of whether or not there is anything further that the Government might do to insist that employees receive the December wages, which I believe is what Mr Neil is talking about, that they are due. I would not want to intervene in another portfolio and talk about something that I did not know anything about. Mr Hepburn will respond. In terms of the second part of the question, a very important part of it, NHS national services Scotland, in conjunction with the tragedy healthcare, are arranging an information and recruitment day to be held in shots in the next few days. When we have the exact date for that, I will make sure that all relevant members, including Mr Neil and other colleagues, are aware of that date, but the employees of the former company will certainly be informed and the new company who will take over the contract once all the conclusions of the negotiations are completed by the end of this month will undertake that information and recruitment day, which I hope gives Mr Neil's summons assurance, but more importantly to those who have lost their jobs from AGS. Jenny Marra, followed by Emma Harper. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Can I back Alex Neil's call that there is no stone left unturned to make sure that those workers get the money that they are due? There are workers in Dundee waiting for wages that are due to them as well. She talks about the cost of contingency plans to health boards. Is the Scottish Government pursuing AGS's insurers to see if the public purse can recover some of that cost from them? My third brief question is just to clarify her answer to Ms Lennon. She talked about the 10-year contract being worth £10 million. We are just a little bit unsure of that because we understand from the press that three health boards made a payment of approximately £1 million for the last three months. The £10 million does not really stack up. If she could clarify that, that would be helpful. Could I clarify for the chamber that there are members here who are not going to get their questions because of the time taken by their colleagues, Jane Freeman? First of all, I apologise to the chamber for causing considerable confusion about how much the contract is. It is £10 million a year for 10 years, £100 million. I hope that that clarifies it. I hope that that is in the record and my apologies to the chamber and to members for confusing everybody on that matter. On no stone left unturned, I believe that the Government is doing everything that it can. Mr Hepburn has advised me that not only did he seek the company's permission to contact their bank, which was refused. He has now written to the bank on behalf of the employees to see if the bank can assist in ensuring that they receive the monies that they are entitled to. The other question that was asked from Ms Marra was about his insurers, and we are seeking legal advice on that and a range of other matters in terms of the whole contract. I am sure that you appreciate that there are three portfolios involved in this from different perspectives in terms of the environment, the employees and a business, and my interest and concern in terms of the NHS. We are looking at all the ways in which we may assist a resolution of that matter. I welcome the robust contingency plans that NHS Scotland has developed. Can the cabinet secretary confirm that those measures will remain in place until a new contract begins and that the new contract will, at the very minimum, adhere to those standards? Jeane Freeman. I am grateful to Ms Harper for that. The contingency arrangements will remain in place until the national contract is fully operational, so we will have no break in service. We will have the contingency arrangements continuing, the national contract beginning, and the contingency arrangements will not pull back until we are absolutely confident that the new national contract is fully operational. The new national framework agreement includes an updated specification, meets the current environmental targets of the Scottish Government and provides greater visibility of waste streams locally and nationally. A single contract for the whole of our health service in Scotland is exactly the way that we should be doing this, rather than a series of individual board contracts. Given what she has just reported today about the bank and other matters, is the cabinet secretary satisfied with the level of engagement and co-operation that the Scottish Government has received from healthcare environmental services since this situation first came to light? Jeane Freeman. No, I am not. I do not think that anyone is. I certainly do not think that the employees of the company who are skilled and experienced and have worked hard have been treated either fairly or well in the manner in which they have been dealt with. It is a particularly difficult time of year, of course, at Christmas to be told that you have lost your job, but to be told that with absolute notice and not to be paid the wages that you are due is completely unacceptable. No, I am not satisfied with the way in which the company has handled either its contractual obligations to our national health service or its absolute contractual and other obligations to its workforce. We have been trying, both Scottish Government and Scottish Enterprise, to co-operate, support and work with HES since the autumn of last year, offering a range of business support and support in terms of the workforce. I have had little, if any, co-operation at all. In terms of the health service contract, to be advised in a very short space of time that you cannot meet your contractual obligations and then in an equally short space of time to say that you have ceased trading and that is it that you have packed up shop is not the way, in my opinion, that anyone who takes contract obligations seriously would behave. That concludes questions on the statement on clinical waste services. Apologies to Alison Harris, James Kelly and Shona Robison, who I was not able to call.