 The issue of reparations has finally penetrated national discourse in part thanks to the presidential election Some Democratic Party primary contenders are saying that they support reparations But the conversation it's not very nuanced and mainstream media There's kind of a mention of it and then we move away But we don't really know what reparations entails because a lot of people are just learning about it for the first time And here with me now to talk about reparations is Michael Graham Otherwise known as MG from Actify Press and we tried really hard to get this video out prior to the Eidos conference Unfortunately, the last version that we recorded had a little bit of audio issues So we are redoing it now because we really want you all to hear about this. So Michael, thank you so much for coming back on the program Thanks. Thanks for giving me another shot there, Mike. Sorry about the sound on the last one, you know things happen I have messed up so many Interviews before with tech issues and whatnot. It's just you know, it's part of the process But you know what matters is that we're still able to do this and get this out And I hope you know kind of intrigue people to not just listen to this and then and the conversation there But really dive a little bit deeper do some more research and if you look in the description box We have a plethora of resources for you if you want to learn more about reparations learn more about the Exploitation of black Americans on the history. There's so many resources I have some articles from Michael Graham that he wrote But hopefully this will be a conversation that kind of sparked your interest So what I want to really do Michael is I think the most important thing is for us to define what reparations means materially speaking because Everyone kind of seems to impose their own view of reparations for purposes of political expediency You know, there's some candidates who they say they support it and maybe they do but it's meager Maybe they don't actually support it if you read a little bit closer between the lines So in your view, what is reparations? What does that mean? In terms of cash payment, does that mean investments in the community? Can you break it down for us in a material sense? Okay, well, let me go back a little bit. I one thing I want to make clear is that reparations has been part of Human interaction since the beginning of time if you harm me we just use there's some sort of recompense some sort of Making things right between those two parties, right? So this that's all reparations is we were harmed and the country never made recompense of in any serious manner and they gained Demunch really gained trillions of dollars and power and wealth from what from our labor from our intellectual toil and We have gained the least from all those all those efforts So what rep races is just like it was for Jewish people in the country that were in concentration camps or the Japanese In concentration camps and all these other groups. It's just making making right What was done wrong? It was done wrong to to a group of people in this case So it could be it can come in several forms, right? There's of course this cash. There is land. There is Apology, there's so many things that can be done to make things, right? But in this case one the biggest sticking point for a lot of Americans is the cash Reparations and I don't understand. Well, I understand race is a big part of that why the cash is is is an issue for a lot of people because Money's power and a lot of people don't want to see us with power But that's basically what rep races are making making good on on what on what was what was done wrong and trying to try To make up these and right now the biggest issue is the wealth gap not the income gap Which is different the wealth gap is the biggest issue because that's where families or an individual's stability comes from and right now And I wrote it in my last article on Nativism we're facing we're truly facing genocide in this country. So we have to Be honest about that and approach that from that standpoint and when you talk about Genocide something that we prior Discussed was if you look at the UN definition of what constitutes genocide your argument is that Black Americans beat three out of the five at a minimum. Can you explain that a little bit? Okay, I read directly from the convention on the prevention of punishment of the crime of genocide This is article two from the from the UN Commission So here here are the the five things killing members of the group Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group deliberately inflicting the on the group conditions of Life calculated to bring about the physical destruction in whole or in part Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group forcibly transferring children of the group to to another group now B a of course killing members of the group we we see that every day we see it with Yes black-on-black crime does exist, but that goes back to C Which is deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about physical destruction Which is what happens when you push a bunch of people together in a small space concentrate upon and and take all the Resources out of that space you concentrate poverty people will get violent happens all over the world happens in tower blocks of London It happens in the favelas of Rio it happens in the on the streets of of Hong Kong Wherever you have a concentrated group of people and and concentrated poverty You're going to have violence the more concentrated the poverty and the more concentrate and the larger the Inequality is the stronger the the violence is going to be that it's of course because it's contained You people harm people who were in their group forcibly for transferring children of the group to another group now That's that's one that people probably don't even notice but our foster care program children are pushed in the foster care because Find finances is the biggest reason why people give up their kids Finances is the biggest reason why people don't have enough money to take care of their children Right, so we're going back to deliberately inflicting the group on the group conditions The light of life calculated to bring about the physical destruction of older part It's a vicious cycle and we're facing that right now And if we don't as American descendants of slavery, we don't have any money. Therefore. We don't have any power Are we ever a vote? But the powers that be spent a lot of time and money to Misguide our vote in the directions that they want in order to help whatever they want as opposed to helping us Yeah So that's that's that's my that's my that's a view of genocide based on international law This is not what Michael Graham says. This is that what the US community says this is not what anybody This is what the law says What I think you you kind of touch on in your articles that I think is really important is Well, we live in a capitalist system in a capitalist system wealth directly translates into power by 2050 what's going to happen if we do not change income inequality and the disparities in wealth between whites and blacks Yeah, well, 2053 we we're facing The will be black Americans will be at zero wealth right now. We average $1,700 for a family if you take out the Durable goods so like cars and cars and Clothing and furniture and stuff like that. We're down to $1,700 in in the United States And of course there's places that are a lot worse like in Boston. We're down to $8 of wealth in In LA, I believe it's 200 200 or $300 in wealth Which in LA is like having nothing, you know So in its places this issues like that and it's not and it's not based on our color It's based on our the fact that we are descendants of slaves because they are asking people people who are born and raised First second generation from the African continent who also live in in or around these these communities But they have much more wealth because they brought wealth in or the and or they've been allowed to access wealth more than us Based on our history based on people trying to hold us down based on our history And I wanted you to kind of touch on the different types of arguments for Reparations because I think that really there's a multitude of ways that you can approach this There's the moral argument that this is a wrong that has never been written You know Ronald Reagan is actually the president surprisingly enough that signed reparations into law for victims of Japanese internment during World War Two so this is something that we've we've never Righted a wrong for so there's that moral argument There's also the legal argument and really acknowledging that this dates back to slavery, but it doesn't stop after slavery We're talking about Jim Crow. We're talking about segregation redlining So the legal argument is what I think can persuade people who don't buy into the moral argument and I feel like the moral argument in and of itself is Persuasive, but if you want to get like the wonks and the centrists on board Then I think that the legal argument is incredibly important and I feel like it's foolproof now in terms of this being a debt owed How do you make that case? How do you say legally speaking? This is sound and this is something that is long overdue well as you said there's a there is a nearly unbroken chain of Horrible policy and practice from the United States from 1696 But in this case we'll start from 1776 because there was no America prior to 1776. So There was slavery Then then there was a civil war and there is a tiny sliver of time where we had reconstruction and then white terrorism Erased that the right white terrorism and the assassination of Martin Martin King the assassination of of Abraham Lincoln erased the all those gains and pulled the rug out from other Southern blacks and whites who were rebuilding the south after after the civil war and then Falling right back into that puts us right into the Jim Crow era Which is a which is a hundred and a hundred plus years I forget what the number is a hundred plus years and that drives us into the 60s and during that time period We there there were there are over 4,000 lynchings Which is the which is how which is part of the violence and terrorism that they use to keep Jim Crow in place There were over 4,000 lynchings that have never ever ever been been prosecuted 4,000 black people were killed in violent violent terrorist actions from from the white community and none of that is ever been prosecuted All right, so we have that where we couldn't we couldn't own property or if we did have property It could be taken away from us. We had sharecropping during that time If those who those who managed to get their 40 acres in a mule that was taken back Communities that built that built up built their own communities and white folks came and tore that down and took it away It was just it was just horrible absolutely horrible So now we hit Jim at the end of Jim Crow quote-unquote the end of Jim Crow which puts us at the silver with the end of the civil rights movement Puts us into 65 or 67 in that time period. We had civil rights act the voting rights act. We also have Linda B Johnson signing using a a Executive action to institute affirmative action, which is great For and it was affirmative action was specifically specifically for the descendants of slaves All right, so within a year they found a way to dilute it They added women to it not to say the women aren't downtrodden, but white women This was a this was a funnel to take the resources out of these programs and funnel them right back into the white community through white women, okay, so So we're talking about since other than that those that sliver time and reconstruction and from the time that Linda B Johnson puts Put affirmative action into in place. So we're talking about Reconstruction and I'd like a 10-month window where we had affirmative action to ourselves, right? Beyond that that is the absolute closest. We've we've had to full citizenship since we've been here since we've been on this continent And when you see it like that When you see when you see that framing of where we are in the United States, it's case closed There's really no way to back away from that I think that part of the issue is that people aren't really conceptualizing this in the correct way like one of the biggest things that I see against Reparations is that well, there's no slaves alive today And of course you just explained how it's not just about slavery But the way that I see it is when a debt is owed That doesn't go away when you know the individuals who are owed something die, right? So for example, like I have a lot of student loan debt if I die that's not going to go away It's just going to be transferred to my husband debts carry on after somebody passes away I mean my dad he has an uncle that he never met I don't think maybe once or twice who had land in Hawaii It was like a meager five acres or something like that But he found out about it after he died and then when that property was sold him and his Siblings split that so, you know a debt it doesn't just go away with time It's something that carries on and people need to acknowledge that and if they see it that way I think that legally speaking it makes more sense if they don't you know Understand the moral argument, which I feel like the moral argument. It's it's basically a no-brainer It's just a matter of people kind of use Legal rationale to kind of explain away the need for reparations when that's not really a way to dismiss it Easily because you're still wrong, but I wanted to talk about because the thing about reparations is that as I kind of alluded to We don't really get these complex conversations about it And it's really nice to see Presidential candidates like you know Mary Ann Williamson talking about it, although I will say it's disappointing that You know a white woman is the face of reparations when we have black leaders like event carnell and Antonio Moore Who founded this movement and they don't really get credit But really what they've kind of helped to Demonstrate to people is that this is important to view it in terms of a black agenda, right? Like we can't just lump in black people and people of color because there are different needs for different communities So what they try to do is bring to the forefront a black agenda saying these are the things specifically that we need That will help our community that will save our community But it is important that the way that you know the the organization and the Momentum grassroots behind this has kind of just sprung up seemingly out of nowhere That's actually a mischaracterization because it's been there. There's been a need for this. There's been an urgency for it It's just that finally it is coming to the forefront But I want to ask you because since Mary Ann Williamson is kind of the face of reparations And I do view her as an ally she spoke at the Edo's conference But in my view I feel as if her approach to reparations while it's correct legally and You know in the way that she's framing the argument I feel like it's a bit too meager But I kind of want to talk through like is she is she hitting all the marks? Is she doing a good job? What is your take on Mary Ann Williamson? Yeah, well, I'm sorry Mike. Let me go back for a second. You were talking about the debt Well, I'll come back to Mary Williamson. Sure. We're talking about you were talking about the debt and how debt is that debt transfers Just just just the way wealth transfers just like poverty is just trying is passed on down passed out through generations Or the lack of wealth is passed out through generations, right? So something we have to keep in mind, right? Recently there was a study 60 the largest transfer of personal wealth is about to happen over the next 25 years in the United States from boomers to millennials. We're talking 68 trillion dollars Are going to be transferred and 45 million 45 million households there's gonna be 68 trillion dollars transferred to From from millennials. I mean from boomers to millennials and the vast majority of those families are White families because that's where all the wealth is right. So that we have to keep that in mind a lot of people are saying well I was saying that that well well black folks they had your chance whatever, you know They had welfare and whatever whatever XYZ We did not have a chance to pass on that kind of wealth like white folks to get ready pass pass on to their kids Even though we did the work we always have done the work and here we are We're looking at 68 trillion dollars over the next 25 years going from boomers to millennials that we're looking at moving on Mary Mary Williamson. She is a she's an outstanding ally. She is courageous She I like the fact that she is full-throated about her her position about fighting for For reparations, although although her numbers are small because she's concentrating I guess she what she said in the conference was that she's concentrating on what is what she believes is political politically viable I believe what's politically viable is what you fight for right? Just like was three four years ago Medicare for all wasn't politically viable now Everybody's scrambling to try to find a medicare for all plan or medicare medicare for all light plan Yeah, that's a great plan. What's and and what's politically viable doesn't matter It's where and I think Harvard did the study, you know Stanford did the study that What people in the street think about what have what policy goes through it means nothing Like 60% of policy goes through and the people in the street don't even want it. Yeah, that's a Princeton study actually Yeah, yeah, yeah, so the argument that well most Americans don't want that. That's not an argument at all It's about what people with money won't which doesn't which doesn't really help us But the argument of the people don't want it. It's not gonna happen. That's that doesn't fly either, right? Because this is a dead, okay So her problem for what's again back to Mary Williamson the biggest issue is she wants to concentrate on the 40 acres The promise of a 40 acres in the mule, which is a very concentrated promise of four million people Didn't get their 40 against in the mule four million former slaves in the United States didn't get their 40 acres in the mule And that was what they could have as we've talked about before that's what they could have could have they could have Received and if they had the opportunity to they could they would have been able to protect it and grow that wealth Just like white family did okay, and then of course pass that on to to further generations now here We are nearly 40 million African-americans Native American descendants of slavery And we're dirt poor for the most part. Yeah, some some black folks have some money Yeah, but the vast majority of us are struggling paycheck to paycheck if they're lucky enough to be getting a paycheck So I think Mary Williamson is on the right track as far as that portion of the reparations It may this concern or reparations case is concerned, but there is a vast majority of things like peonage conical easing and Even even now we have the even in the modern modern times. We have the drug war which Which clearly was targeting black communities we had and after the the drugs were flooded into the communities we have Mass incarceration which is which piggybacked off the drug war It seems that every step of the way our bodies are used for white folks to make money and we never get And folks want that to continue for some odd reason because white supremacy is just so ingrained in every single component of society and institutions and it's it's so like it's really difficult to Undo a system that was built on that. So it's like I really you know I found the ados argument like I've always been a supporter of reparations just as you know a good ally But I never really took the time to fully understand what that means and what that entails And even if I was already kind of open minded towards the idea when you really see it put in very point of blank like statistical terms It really is eye-opening like I I read the ados website ados 101.com and I kind of had this like yeah, I said Go ahead. The website is is um, I wrote I also wrote that in my recent article on nativism. It was it was a um It was so sobering. You know, I I thought I was knowledgeable But when you look at those numbers and the way they pull out the data That's not and it's not and it's not intended to As some folks were saying is that not attended to fire people up and make them feel bad about our situation It was about telling the truth, right? And that's what the left is supposed to be about right left is supposed to be about Okay, let's here's the facts. Let's say an argument. Let's let's try to get it fixed All right, and that's what that was used to be about back in the day. Anyway, we uh, we uh, that's only when it comes to The American descendants of slavery is the left not like that and that's that's a big issue for me. That's why I've shifted most of my energy to fighting for 80 us and because you know, it's my family that's where my my sons my sons no matter what my What my parents have done no matter what what I have done when my wife family is done My sons have a 75 chance of falling into poverty and one of them right now is headed that way my eldest, right? No matter what we did no matter what no matter how many resources I have They as individuals are are more likely to fall in the poverty simply because they descend from slaves Nothing else. It's not race. It's not Um, this city it's not, you know, the color of their their their car When they have one right, it's none of that garbage, right? It is that it is that they descend from slaves because this country has a hard on for harming us And it's really that simple Yeah, and the situation shouldn't be bleak And I think that really what what was very persuasive to me is the sense of urgency that I felt when I read it You know about black wealth disappearing by 2053 about how the situation is getting exponentially worse Um, so I think that it does a really good job at you know One educating people on two spreading awareness and I feel like if you're not necessarily On board yet, but you're open-minded Then doing the research in and of itself will do wonders because It really is empowering to learn about this and really realize the full history and get the context Of what has happened to descendants of slaves in this country and it's really sad So we kind of got our feet wet a little bit, but this is such a gigantic issue. It's complex So aside from recommending that people go through and read the resources that we have in the description box What I want to ask you is as white allies as non white allies. What can we do? To promote this issue rather than just saying I support it. I mean, what else could how do we go further and be good allies? I think one of the biggest things is um Be prepared to do some work, right? Um There's boots on the ground. Do your homework. Obviously like we just said. Yeah, definitely In be fearless in your circles. If you don't take anything else from what I say Uh in this this particular, um Interview or anything I've written if you the biggest thing for me is be fearless in your circles Go back and tell these folks that are that are uh on the right left or center Whoever they are tell them that reparations is the right thing to do and here are the reasons why Bam bam bam bam bam. These are fellow americans are going through x y and z and our policy and practice caused it And at no point in time in this in our history have we had enough power to cause this to ourselves So this is this was something that was inflicted upon uh the uh the american descendants of slavery and as the the uh the the entity that inflicted that on these on On the american descendants of slaves We have the duty and responsibility to fix it because they we do not there are no policies in place for us to fix it ourselves um the uh dr. Sandy derrity from duke and antonia more and several other um Economists did a study and all these things that we were told would get us out of poverty You know buying home saving not spending on rims and sneakers by as they say that bullshit and um All those things that we we've heard that would get get us out of poverty None of them work. None of them work. Um, I I forget the name of the study. I think you might Put it in the um in the show notes. Yeah. Yeah, it'll definitely be there Yeah, and and none of those things work because they do not show in the data All right, they don't it doesn't show up in the data families that that stay together um That you know nuclear families that stay together and everybody gets at least a high school education and they're working Wealth levels are still massively below white people who do the same thing So all these things that were told that would fix this Um, we're and they were put in like nixon put in place. Uh, but black capitalism that was his big thing Um, we're gonna do give them, you know, give them black capitalism and so so they think they're getting somewhere and and we didn't get anywhere um, you know and and all these other fixes that they're supposed to be um gyms of of Of wisdom in order to build wealth they're all bullshit at the end of the day Another thing that I kind of wanted to touch on real quick before we um close up here is um One thing that I think makes this issue especially more difficult to sell to people Is that it's not like other policies like medicare for all like if i'm promoting that I tell somebody how that impacts them from a really Concrete individual standpoint, but with this issue when it comes to reparations I think that people incorrectly view this as a zero-sum game where descendants of slavery They get something but I don't get something as someone who's white when in actuality that just shows me that we haven't been Doing a good enough job at pitching this because in actuality. This is not a zero-sum game This is a win for everyone and this is truly um trickle up economics because if we increase Purchasing power of black americans then that benefits the aggregate economy So I feel as if you know giving up and saying well, this doesn't have public support I don't think that that is persuasive enough because we always start from somewhere medicare for all was not as popular as it is The death penalty is still Not uh, there's most americans don't support a repeal of it. It's getting closer, right? But that doesn't necessarily mean yeah Yeah, that doesn't mean that we give up that doesn't mean that we just say well You know what we we don't have the public support that we need so we stop That just means that we have our work cut out for us and that means that we need to go further in educating people And really like what I would say is Educating yourself is the first step because you can't persuasively argue for reparations if you don't know the statistics If you don't know how grim the situation is for american descendants of slavery and that in and of itself Is a huge first step that uh, you can take I think I mean, I don't know if you wanted to add to that Yeah, I agree that the first step is is education, but but the the moral argument you can do without the education, right? That's true. That's right. I don't want you to I don't want anybody to wait until I you know, they're a scholar on Right, right. They're applied to black people in the united states. The moral argument is clear Yeah, it could be as concise as you want it to be and it could be all right. We had Slavery we had Jim crow. We had for a split second. We had civil rights movement that got us closer to To to parody with with our our white brethren in the country, but then we had the drug war we had mass incarceration, so we have never is never American descendants slavery have never seen full citizenship They've never had a full opportunity to gain wealth in this country point blank period There's really no way there's no other way to view this and the moral argument is We need to make that right and that includes cash payments because you can't make up a wealth gap without cash You just cannot yeah, and um Raising people's income that sounds good on paper, but you're raising everybody, you know The minimum wage argument you're raising but you're raising everybody's income that means okay If there's a gap and everybody's wages go up guess what that gap is goes unchanged Right slightly or changes slightly right so um and that's you know And that's one of my many frustrations with the left when it comes to this This discussion is like you were saying before that people tend to give up looks too hard Let's leave it alone. Right. I think that's bullshit for a lot for a lot of folks I totally know a lot of folks know better I think a lot of folks know better, but they're choosing not to you know, I don't mind I'm gonna call them some of them are racist I mean, it is what it is the left has has their share of races and like you said before White supremacy is ingrained deeply in the united states. Yeah, it's really it's good But it's deep in the united states and and and a lot of people think that Um, to it and it's true to a degree that money insulates them from us and our problems Mm-hmm Right and it does insulate them. You know, we our problems are elsewhere. I mean, that's what Pushing us into separate communities was all about our problems are there is no Shared uplift right there was the the whole um The rising tide lift all boats argument, but no water's going to our In our spaces right all the water's going to other spaces How are we gonna lift all boats right because you know, we're living You know, we're living in a space where we're not getting anything In matter of fact, most of the resources are being pulled out through Through overpolicing, you know driving up that's driving up costs through incarcerating people Tickets all kinds of stuff and all this stuff is going on in the black communities that that are pulling resources even now pulling resources out of out of Black communities that's happening right now at this moment. We just had the The crash in 0809 suggest I'm getting old just In 0809 and nobody went to jail for targeting black and in this case black and latino People wanted to wanted to buy a house Nobody went to jail for targeting for targeting us right and that none of this goes punished and that's part of the problem is that Government has lost its taste for even a little bit for fighting for us Not even nobody fights for us not nobody in power fights for us If you look around there is nobody fighting for the specific needs of the american decimus of slavery community Not a single person in power not a single group in power is fighting is fighting for us None And we are the most important voting block voting block in democratic politics and on a national state level How does that happen? How does that happen? It's got it's I know how it happens. It's it's specifically it's specifically targeting us for the end Right, you you don't you don't want us to make your own decisions. You don't want us to have any wealth You don't want us to grow. You don't want us to have our own businesses What's left? what's left and and for people to Quote on quote left us to to look at this situation and ignore it or even worse um Attack us for wanting more for for for wanting a future for our children is absolutely vile absolutely vile and um I don't you know, I don't know how This country plans are going forward without fixing this problem And and it's the sad thing is it most people don't want to fix the problem Yeah, you know, we've um a lot of it is like we said said early is that people don't understand the problem But for a lot of folks that's not an excuse Especially for those of us on the left. It's not an excuse Well, and the reason why I've kind of like really started to Be more passionate about it and not just you know be a passive white ally because that's what I feel like I should do is because you know It's hypocritical to not support this issue if you think big in all other areas And I get that there's this sense that okay Well, we're gonna be accused of being too far left the minute like reparations even came up in 2020 There was already the fox news segments about how far left we're going and how how crazy Yeah, exactly about having fire departments Exactly exactly and like the whole the whole like I and I do understand like right trying to be sympathetic Um, I get it like we finally move the needle on medicare for all we move the needle on the greenew deal We have public support. So now it seems like okay. Well, what if we go too far and ask too much? Will we de-legitimize ourselves? But what people need to realize is that we are at a really crucial point in history Where we've got 11 years left to act when it comes to climate change Um, we are facing rising fascism in the united states of america White supremacy um violence against blacks and people of color. It is It's really terrifying to see so now is not the time to limit our thinking and limit, you know, what's possible Now is the time to think big and accept things radical changes That would actually uh help people in this country and it doesn't matter if we have these universal programs that are phenomenal But if you truly care about targeting that wealth gap that disparity between descendants of slaves and everyone else You have to address that specifically and I think that ados has done a fantastic job at saying that look It's great. All these, you know universal policies, uh targeting, you know People of color generally speaking. That's all fantastic But if we want to stop this issue and um stop what's been happening the exploitation of black americans Disproportionately, you know descendants of slaves. This is what we have to do So I think it's really persuasive and I really I I'm thankful that people like you are speaking up so vocally because you have to really Yell to get people's attention sometimes and I think that the ados movement has been very effective and I really commend them for it Yeah, there's there's been a lot of guerrilla journalism and guerrilla politics of coming from the From the ados community and and for people with no resources and no power. This is what people have to do You know, it's we don't have We don't have a bunch of folks that we can send uh journalists with with tv vans to go to everything We get you know, we're we we got cell phones and and our voices That's all we got and and that goes back to allies being courageous in their circles If you if you're in a space where people are poo poo and reparations, you've got to stand up and say something You know, uh, it can't be Well, maybe they have a maybe they have a point. It is kind of hard. No No, everything is hard until you freaking do it. Yeah, right Um, and that's the biggest issue for me people gonna have to be courageous and even if you Um, there were a lot of voices saying that The ados was a was a fascist plot to bring down bernie And all this other madness if you don't see that that was wrong if you don't see that by now with cornell west standing standing by The most one of the most courageous people in for for the rights of poor people in this country Is standing with ados if you can't see that I I don't know what to tell you. Well, a lot of folks are just using the gadgets We're using the gadgets as an excuse. Yeah, they're gonna say they're gonna say the cornell west of all people got paid off Whatever bullshit excuse. Oh, yeah cornell west is like the most You know, he has the most integrity out of anyone. Yeah, absolutely. He was shredding obama for eight straight years And based on his policy and and you know, there are all kinds of people that are standing with this with the ados community and our and and the And I must say I just just released a podcast just me talking more or less of of about leadership about black leadership and praising antonio more and and You've been that carnell for their forthright and fearless leadership because too often And there's a clip in there of malchimax talking about the leadership during the civil rights movement about how it was It was the leadership was stood up because black folks were were A Tuesday of the past will say Of making their voices heard Folks were getting hurt Buildings were burning down and black folks were not playing So powers would be put some more Quiet voices out in front. All right But even those voices got radicalized after a while like marlo the king. He got radicalized after a while So, oh, wait, we got to talk about economics. Of course that was the end of Of the good doctor But in any event again that I had to say again You have to be courageous in your circles. Yeah, you don't have to you don't have to like event You don't have to like antonio. You don't have to like their tone None of that. You don't have to like me but if you are for justice And you're in this activism space And you're not behind reparations There is a problem not enough groups are helping us nobody's no no groups are on our side the just recently um Trump signed a a a bill for um Pacific Islander and Asian American inclusion in the in the economy Not a word was said nobody said anything about about specific policy to help people, you know what I mean Yeah, that's That's the thing those are the types of things that bother me So we can't do the same thing for for black in for the sentences flavor We can't do the same thing for us But when it comes to us, we are quote-unquote political poison unless you want our votes But that's gonna change now. No black agenda. No vote. It is what it is You know and and shutting us out and well trying to shut us out and try to shut down these arguments It's not gonna work Especially as bad as you need these black these black ass votes for to win the win the presidency And to win at the state level in many states It's gonna change and it slowly is changing as we speak. Well the overtune window just in the selection cycle I think has shifted dramatically on not I mean not just reparations, but a ton of issues And it this is the first time I really feel optimistic. Well, I shouldn't say I feel optimistic because overall I'm cynical I've got a cold heart But I mean I see like there's a little bit of a light like a glimmer of hope at the end of the tunnel So it's nice to see, you know a little bit of Maybe goodness to come, you know, it's just a matter of putting in the work And that's why I really appreciate people like you and event carnell and ten you're more raising this issue because You know without this type of in-your-face like hey pay attention finally tangibles 2020 like I wouldn't have really Felt the need to do research. I would have just felt like I I support it. That's probably enough I am comfortable right but really forcing myself to go out of my comfort zone and really research it On it's eye-opening You know, it's this coming to jesus moment that I want everyone to have and that's why I will say one more time Please do not leave this video until you check out those resources in the description Michael took the time to go through and carefully select a ton of different things that you will want to check out He's like the reed great great opportunity. Just reading. There you go. There you go. Check out the resources nerds. So I didn't want to say that So anyways, if you if you didn't have anything else to add Michael, we uh, we can leave that there No, I'm good. Michael. I wanted to thank you for being an ally. It's um, very very important that we have allies um, and it's great that the that the guys in independent media Especially on the video side because you guys get the most the most attention And tim black also he has sandy dirty on his show recently and giving 80 us a fair shot because that that smear campaign that happened early on was painful but um Glad we got it out of the way it was gonna happen eventually Glad we got it out of the way and people are and people like yourself were being courageous and and being true allies and fighting this fight And offering your platform for this. I truly truly truly appreciate it And please thank talk to your fellow your fellow youtubers slash podcasters and everybody else again be courageous in your circles Well, thank you. Thank you for saying that. Uh, I'm certainly trying but uh, it's really, you know, thanks to you for really, um, Taking the time to explain this so articulately and eloquently and just and just making it known What's at stake, right? It's it's easy to sit by and be complacent But for the people who speak out they kind of put themselves on the line And you're doing a public service. So thank you for that. Uh, it's been a pleasure, Michael