 Hello everyone and welcome. You are on the field with me, Philip Sidney. Today, I have a very, very special guest. He was the former research officer in the Ministry of Agriculture, former Minister for Infrastructure, former Minister for National Security, former Minister for Agriculture, a retired farmer, I may say, and in 2022, he was knighted, knight commander of the Order of St. Lucia, for exceptional and outstanding service of national importance to St. Lucia. Ladies and gentlemen, it gives me great pleasure and honor to introduce my guest to you, my mentor, a great man, Sir Karlix George. Welcome to the program, sir. Thank you very much. This is a long overdue, sir. It's a while now. We've been trying to get you. I know, you know, because of various activities, we were not able, but I'm so happy to have you on my program today. So, sir, in the deepest corner of your cerebral cortex, a Sid was soon. It blossomed into a Korean agriculture. Why a Korean agriculture, Sir George? Oh, the primary reason for a Korean agriculture was to help my country develop into an independent, viable economy. And that was sort of brought out while I was at school, really, at St. Mary's College. At that time, I went to school in 1952. I went to St. Mary's in 1952. And at that time, sugar was still on, but there was the question of bringing in the banana industry and so on. Now, it so happened that we had an excellent headmaster called Brother Kanis Collins, who was very perceptive and kind of trained. In the first instance, he was the first person to actually bring science education into St. Lucia. Before that time, St. Mary's College was a classical college, and he introduced science. And he was instrumental in infusing a science orientation into our head and also of its importance to agriculture because agriculture was the bedrock of the economy of St. Lucia. So he actually trained us and advised us to move in that direction. So you will find, if you look at the records of St. Mary's College, which incidentally I wrote a a treatise on, and you will find in there how he infused the whole issue of agricultural development into us. The result was that scores of us eventually went into agriculture. For example, the first one was a gentleman by the name of Louis Campbell, Francis Leos, Dr. Edmunds and so on, who came in before me. All these guys eventually became very key people in the development of St. Lucia, the whole development of St. Lucia. You can say that the development of St. Lucia at the critical time of the agricultural expansion in terms of bananas was in fact due to a significant extent, Brother Kanis' influence on us. So I was a very good science student. As a result, for example, I belong to a group that did the first higher school certificate in three science subjects, chemistry, botany, zoology, and of course I was the first St. Lucia to get distinctions in botany and chemistry. In addition to that, I must say that my orientation was also agricultural in nature because my mother came from a rural area in a place called Founier, opposite Marquis estate. My father was a town man, he was an accountant and so on, but my mother came from a farming community at Founier and her father, that's my grandfather, had a very big farm in that place. He had a farm of about 120 acres and when I was a young boy, I used to go up every holiday. My mother used to take us up to the country. So I became familiar with all agricultural things because he had a self-contained and self-sufficient farm, both livestock, bees and crops, very diversified. So I was introduced, for example, like production of cassava, which is a big thing now, but we had our platine and all that kind of stuff. And I always remember the question of cassava was very, very intensive because you have to get up very early, go to get the roots and bring them down to the processing area because it had to be done the same day because of the hydrogen cyanide and so on. So it was very, very intensive. So the agricultural activities that I was exposed to at a very early age cemented the thing when I went to college, so I went to do agriculture. And then from there you went to UE. Yeah, from there I went to UE. I was the first group of West Indian students to do the degree in agriculture at the Imperial College of Tropical Agriculture, which is in Trinidad. Now the Imperial College of Tropical Agriculture was the foremost agricultural institute in the world to do tropical agriculture. And that was controlled by the British government who trained all her agricultural officers throughout the tropical world, from Fiji to Mauritius to India, the whole of Africa. So they used to be trained in that place. So in 1960 it changed to the University of the West Indian, University College of the West Indies. So Arfal always got it to change from the Imperial College of Tropical Agriculture to the Faculty of Agriculture in 960. So I was in the first group that did the agricultural degree. Okay. Living University, you came back to Saint Lucia and from there, what happened from there? When I left university, I was agronomist for what is called the Regional Research Center. There was a research center for agriculture in Trinidad at the same Imperial College of Tropical Agriculture. And they have done research in many tropical crops like cocoa and bananas. So I came to Saint Lucia to do some experiments on bananas because bananas are just coming in. And they had to determine the fertilizer requirements of the banana. So I did some experiments throughout Saint Lucia in the different agro-ecological zones. Bananas have grown for determining the requirements for nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium so that you can get a formulation to give to the farmers. So the first set of fertilizer formulations were determined by a gentleman by the name of Ian Twyford, an Englishman who trained me in experimentation and so on and so forth. So I became very adept in terms of field experimentation. And of course that stayed with me when I became research officer of the Ministry of Agriculture. So after that, well you would know about that because I think I trained you guys also in field experimentation as well. So when I did that, then I left and went to England to specialize in soil science. So basically rarely I'm a soil scientist by trading, by photo trading. And then I came back to Saint Lucia and then became the research officer in the Ministry of Agriculture with responsibility for Union agricultural station. But in addition to Union agricultural station, I did experiments all over Saint Lucia, all over. I know that every hole, so to speak, in Saint Lucia because the first thing that you have to know is that the response of crops varies according to soil type rainfall, ecological zone. So whatever experiments that I did, I didn't do it in one ecological zone. I had to do it in several ecological zones to see the responses that you would get for that particular zone. Yes, yes. I remember, in fact when I came in as a cadet, I remember we had experimental plots in La Fag del Se and we did peanuts. And I remember planting peanuts and all my hands were bruised, you know. We had a lot of experiments all over the place. For example, we did a lot of experiments on Irish potatoes. Irish potatoes, correct, yes. I see them doing some there now. But we did all that experiments and we knew the taking varieties from Canada and also from the UK. And in fact Mr Leon said done it before me and I continued. And then we did the Irish potatoes in different zones, for example, at Bath, right in the Souffre area. Of course in the low-lying areas like Union and so on. And at Viewfort, you know, these kind of areas. So, you know, you found out where the best place was. In fact, Souffre area was in fact the best place to grow potatoes. Because they saw your type. They know the climate too. The climate too has got to do with it. Yes, definitely. I remember one of the things I remember you did, there were varietal trials. Oh, yes. There were spacing trials. There were fertilizer trials. Right, that's right. I remember having what they call a guard row. Yes, well, in fact, I'm not sure whether the present day guys in the Ministry of Agriculture, I feel disappointed. And in fact, even at my age, I'm willing to train them because there are certain principles that you have to follow if you have to make recommendations for farmers. Exactly. And the experiments have to be properly designed and executed. And the results have to be analyzed statistically, all right? And I think I taught you all some statistics as well. Yes, we did. How to interpret the results that you get and so on, you know. And that is where you talk of the guard rows that you talk about. In doing the pollots, you cannot, first, the soil type is important. Now in St. Lucia, we have about 53 or 54 soil types. And the soil types vary very, very, in very short distances and so on. So when you set your experiment down on a particular soil type, you must be, the treatments that you give must be in what's called random plots, randomized plots. So in doing the randomized plots, you have to make sure that there's no interference from one plot to the next. So you have to surround it, all right? By whatever plants that you're growing, so that there's absolutely no interference. So that's why you call it guard plots. Anyway, we do have a break. You're watching on the field with me, back soon. The Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries, Food Security and Rural Development continues placing heavy emphasis on the concept of food security. It's our prosperity, our future. The crop production unit conducts surveillance and monitoring for trans, boundary pests and diseases of quarantine importance for St. Lucia. It provides technical assistance in the areas of post harvest technology, agro processing and soil and plant tissue diagnosis. The unit facilitates prudent management of agrochemicals and toxic chemicals in an environmentally friendly manner for sustainable development. Soil analysis is also being carried out. Need further assistance on crop production? Contact the Senior Research Officer at 468-5601. Welcome back to the program on the field with me, Philip Sidney. And of course, my guest, Sir Karlix George, who of course you heard, had many, many portfolios in his lifetime. That's why he was knighted Sir Karlix George. So George, we mentioned about the experimental plots and doing experiments around the island, all little holes based on the soil types and the ecological zones that you spoke about. But I also remember you preparing a number of tech packs. Oh well. And let me tell you, you said you were sad. I am saddened because I'm trying to revive those tech packs, you know, so that at least we have something to work with moving into where we are today. I have a copy of my CV and in it has the same tech packs we're talking about. How to grow onions, cabbages, sweet pepper, cabbage, this kind of thing, eggplant, tomatoes. So the results of the experiments that I did, that we just talk about the field experiments in different places, gave us the information that was necessary to do the tech packs. So it's on the basis of the experiments that we did that we can tell you that Calypso is a good variety to do. In this particular location. Right, and how to go about planting it. Well, I have all that information. I know, I can remember that very well. As a matter of fact, they were talking about food security and all that kind of stuff. And I was looking for one that I did on home vegetable gardening that gave you all the information that you required for you to do a vegetable garden, all right? And I also gave, that's for home vegetable gardens, and I also gave the details of the growing, for example, of onions, if you're growing onions or tomatoes and so on and so forth. Now, I gave it to a lot of people, there were a lot of people that got it at those days. But there's only one person, I think, that will be able to help you to get it. And I spoke to his son, and the son promised to give me, to look for it for me. And that is Mongru. Gregory Mongru. Gregory Mongru. Gregory Mongru, I must say, is one of the farmers that actually used all my information on all my experiments and so on. And if you go to Gregory Mongru, he will tell you exactly some of the things in terms of the growing of the vegetables, which he got from me. And he had a copy of the book, you see? Apart from the tech parks, which I'm sure people like Gregory Mongru and other farmers did use in the establishment of the plots. And of course, I'm sure they saw increase in production, of course, and money's in the pockets. There were quite a few of them. There were, in the Miko area, there were quite a few guys, for example, flood. Yes, I remember the flood. Flood went into it. I was growing, I remember. Cabbage. Cabbage, he had a real great something around the Vigier River. He used irrigation and all that kind of stuff. There were some guys from Miko as well. Mr. Reynolds, I think his name. And there were, oh, Elite. Yes, from Babono. Babono. Yes, he too was. He was a very, very good vegetable farmer and so on and so forth. So you had some key guys that actually utilized the information. You could grow onions and all that kind of stuff. We used to grow onions on a regular basis, you know, there. Okay, takes me to my favorite part of the program. Agricultural dead cost. How has that come about, sir? No, agricultural school at Union. It's a school, it's an agricultural college that was established in 1910 or something like that. 1910? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. One of the first things, you see, St. Lucia has always been an agricultural country, all right? And when the British took over, they obviously had to develop the country. So you find now that they had to establish areas for the propagation of tropical crops. You understand? So, and in addition to that, you had to have people trained in agriculture. If it's an agricultural, it's an agricultural economy. So you have to have people trained in it. So in addition to establishing the propagation centers and so on, agricultural centers, there's a commission which the British government set up, right? In 1897. And in it, the recommendation for agricultural development of the colonies came in. And that is how they formed the first agricultural stations. You see, so the station now was located, guess where? In the gardens? In the gardens. That's right, yes. And the office of the superintendent of agriculture is still there in the gardens. You see the building? Yeah, they use what they, what's it, Red Cross at the time? I don't know what they're using it now, but that wooden building there, in the gardens was where the agricultural, first agricultural station was. And in there, they also taught the agricultural school was established. You see? So it came from there and went up to, it went up to Union when they bought over, they left, the station left castries and went up to Union. Okay? So that's how Union agricultural station came in. So Union agricultural station, right, is really a replacement for the botanical gardens. That's why it is called botanical garden because it had to do with the botany of crops. Of course, it's no longer, you can call it a botanical garden. I don't know what you can call it now. Now, incidentally, as an aside, you hear about Sir Arthur Lewis, the great Sir Arthur Lewis. Sir Arthur Lewis's first job was right there in that building. When he left school, he left school, I think he must have been very, very young, he was too young actually to get this, he didn't qualify in age for the scholarship, but he had passed his examinations and so on. So he worked in the gardens as what they call a copious in the Ministry of Agriculture. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and listen to me. And I have written about it in my book on St. Mary's College where Sir Arthur is well known for his paper on the unlimited supplies of labor and the whole issue of development economics. My thesis is this. That Sir Arthur got to know that from the time he worked at the Ministry of Agriculture in St. Lucia, because in there, he had to be exposed to the big farmers, the big plantation owners, as well as the peasantry that was just growing. Okay, so you find now that his thesis deals with that dichotomy of the economy, the traditional economy as opposed to the non-traditional one, okay? So that is explained in his paper on limited supplies of labor. And I am saying this as a result of his interaction in the Ministry of Agriculture that he did that paper to show the dichotomy of the two economies, if you want to call it that. That gave him the Nobel Prize. That's my thesis. Interesting, interesting, interesting. In addition to that, people don't know that. I have his volumes there, you know, if you want to, I can give you the volumes. If you go to my desk there, you will see all the volumes of Sir Arthur, the three volumes of his books, of his papers, all right? And in it, you will see that there's a significant amount of work that he did on agricultural economics, right, which is very well documented. So much so, again, and I write it in my book, that his contribution, they say he never did anything for Saint Lucia, but he did so much for Saint Lucia that Saint Lucia don't even know about it. The fact that he did all those works in agricultural economics, all right? He had written about the economics, the economics of agriculture in the developing world, and he identified Jamaica at the time as the ideal developmental laboratory, so to speak, okay? And one of the things in Jamaica was that Jamaica had a Jamaica School of Agriculture, which was similar to the one of the Union one that I'm talking about, but on a much bigger scale, and it was also located at Hope Gardens, which was the same equivalent of the Botanical Gardens there, okay? So they trained those Jamaican people, and eventually it became the Jamaican School of Agriculture, JSA, so you must have heard of your contemporaries. Four of you and some of those guys went to JSA. So the JSA graduates were supposed to be the best in the tropical world, so when Saint Lucia's development in agriculture was expanding, Sir Arfal was recommended that those agricultural officers who were trained in Jamaica, right, should be distributed and came to Saint Lucia. So that is how you have the first wave of Jamaican agricultures into Saint Lucia, like Harry Atkinson, Stuart, Gage, Mullings, and those guys, and they're the ones who actually, as you know, were the main extension officers for the development of agriculture in Saint Lucia, and that is a contribution stemming from Sir Arfal Wiss. Interesting, interesting. Hold that thought we do for our end of the program. I must say thank you for the first part. We are coming to our second part in a while. You have been watching on the field with me. We are going to be expanding the program to our second phase, so stay tuned.