 I made that video with you guys years ago and it's one of those things that it's almost like immediately as soon as it came out I realized how wrong I was. I'm not saying this to criticize women this is like me trying to tackle this issue because I'm trying to understand what I'm going through and what society is telling me and the reality I keep facing and what a lot of men keep facing. And so what you realize is that there isn't that much space for men's emotions in those relationships it's more so about the woman getting to feel special. And so almost devalues the male experience and it perverts it. That's something I've experienced before for sure. Well I think it probably would exist on both ends right? Like there's going to be times that we all enjoy or delight in someone's pain if it's directed in a way that makes us feel better about ourselves. For example I want to go see the Joker. This is the straight facts your life expectancy decreases the less emotional outlets that you have the less you express yourself less outlets you have for healthy expression of stress. In addition your culpability in the workplace is going to decrease especially as we have more jobs taken up by robotics and now the only resource that humans really have left is our ability to work together and our ability to work maybe in very like sedentary environments on team-based projects or creative projects. And so your femininity your vulnerability is integral to your survival in the workplace. And then on a third basis like it makes for a healthier relationship. And then even in reflection of watching it back now I realized how wrong I was because when you give advice without insight and without an acknowledgement of the reality for people you're just it's not helpful and it's if anything it's hurtful. It's hurtful. Yeah because it minimizes what they're going through and it doesn't give because you can I'm like this is a solution that's it but it's like you don't understand the depth of my issue and you feel like it's like when people talk about like men's suicide if you guys are just more vulnerable it's like do not reduce men's issues to some simple thing that you can fix with just talking about your emotions. It's way more complex than that and I find that over simplicity of men's issues to just be like well you know feminism's got all the tools for you it makes men more resentful it makes it more resentful because we know how deep the problems go we suffer from it we suffer oftentimes in silence and it's almost antagonizing it's belittling it's condescending for someone to say stuff like that. I get so flustered when you're like well feminism's got all the I hate that yeah I hate that because even though I can appreciate feminism and I'm grateful for it say it's part of the solution okay but don't just say it's that so that's one thing it's more complex than that you just have to talk about it and that's okay and then being wrong is whatever you people are wrong it's all good yeah it should be being able to talk about it being open there's so much be the problematic is not if you talk about something and you're wrong if you acknowledge that you're wrong okay then we have a conversation that's cool yeah but there's so there's so many people that are just really don't want to be wrong and are stuck in that that they don't want to have further more discussed no you're and then that's the problem being wrong whatever did you guys watch the bachelor last season no do you watch the bachelor any season what kind of question I don't know it was the first time I actually ever watched it before you want me to call my wife well let that was the buzzword last season what vulnerable should men be vulnerable people think the more hurt you reveal the better it makes you look because they understand I'm sharing the worst story don't you feel special guys have never thought that actually you know what I believe there's people out there would do that no I could definitely see that as a strong manipulation tactic where you would go to somebody and tell them something terrible that happened to you for them to go oh I could see that because I can see how that's manipulative actually 100% even the whole idea of like I need you to tell me that's also you could definitely see that as a form of control I got this they may not even be consciously doing it but they're accumulating power you know to be vulnerable people is to essentially show your weaknesses to show like if I was to think about it in like a castle setting I'm showing you where the walls would break easily if you hit yeah so if you ever want to attack meet you invading easily and I'm showing you this because I want to show you I trust you but 100% flip the tables you're getting in anytime you want you won't hurt me you won't hurt me I'm giving you what it takes to hurt me deeply I love the point that you made in that for a lot of men being vulnerable can feel like they've cheapen themselves in the same way that women may feel giving up sex too early can cheapen themselves yeah yeah because there's plenty of women who can honestly say that they've slept with somebody and it's been used against them afterwards the idea that they were open with their sexuality I think a lot of men can say the same things about their vulnerability I think it's fantastic this rhetoric was get vulnerable man be more vulnerable get in touch but people never really explore what happens to men when they do and what are the downsides because yeah listen when I put out that video there are so many men sharing stories about how traumatic experiences in their childhood were used against them in a random argument we actually did a video recently on a lady who went on a podcast and she said you know I have a lot of problems with men they're like what happens like sometimes I get a little slick when I talk they're like what do you mean I use their secrets against them you have to imagine how many people she harmed along the way and you create those scars and then people build up those defense mechanisms you know what's crazy is that story doesn't even sound abnormal to me no that's what I'm saying and that's exactly that interestingly enough a friend of mine just got into a breakup in common this morning was talking to me about it and said that they got in a terrible argument and now she's trying to like reach back out but he's gotten to a point where he's like I'm so heartbroken by you and I was like well what is the worst thing you said in the argument and at the beginning of the conversation it was one thing but towards the end you're like oh yeah that's what you said the more information that people have the more ammunition that you give them to shoot you I don't give you an ammunition I'm gonna keep that for me but then you also give them more tools and knowledge to love you better no so yes you do sure but you're gonna use that against me when whenever you're gonna pop off do you think that women fetishize men's vulnerability yes and they don't even know what the fuck they're talking about because they think it's gonna be all cute and everything and stuff but and that's the thing is that they think they have this idea of oh yeah he's vulnerable he's he cried in my arm it was so cute like he was crying and I was like holding him and we spent the night he just spoiled and he was able to get it out yeah but if he does that every day you're gonna be like bitch stop crying yeah and not gonna like it every day but if that's how we feel that's how we feel so you just think it's gonna be nice and cute but it's not it ain't and so when people say vulnerability is the new sexy which even coming up with no no no no no no no no but that that is the problem just that slogan vulnerability is the new sexy do you understand it like like how it's commercialized people's pain. Just a slogan for that. That is the encapsulation of the issue that I'm talking about. You know what I'm saying? So you're saying vulnerability is a new sexy that some people say that some people say that right but I think that we're defining vulnerability in terms of let me share my deepest secret with you. What some people are just asking for is tell me how you feel right now. This week's episode of lovers and friends a podcast is live right now. It is one of my favorites. It features as you can see the incredible Abbot and Preach also has cameo appearances from my sister Lauren. Also JD is in this episode. My idea is to normalize vulnerability for men in the sense of understanding that it's not weakness. It's actually bravery. It takes strength to own how you feel in your dad's case and be all guards down saying you know what? I don't have it together at this particular moment and I need help. Yeah. Then the day the only my opinion the only way you're going to have a deep true bond and if it comes to romantic setting a successful on both ends reciprocated relationship is with vulnerability. I agree and I disagree and I think that's really what brought me to this episode to begin with. And fun fact. Hey friend. Hey from the roommates podcast is also in this episode. So I have a partner who's sensitive and loves communicate about everything and I found myself having to face I guess my own thoughts on masculinity because there were things about how sensitive he was and how much he wanted to discuss stuff that like felt I don't know what the right word would be but it was like dude you would almost expect men to have that more unlock. So wherever you listen to podcast go and listen to members of friends of podcast. Stitcher Apple Spotify Pandora you name it we're there and we hope to see you there too. I guess we won't see each other because it's audio. I hope to connect oratorily there with you.