 Good evening. Hello, I'm Caroline Bowman, Director of Cooper Hewitt's Smithsonian Design Museum, and I am absolutely thrilled to welcome you all this evening for a highly anticipated design talk. Tonight I'm delighted to welcome Tom Brown back to Cooper Hewitt, an internationally renowned designer of men, men's and women's ready to wear with legions of fans. Tom launched his label in 2001 with five bespoke men's suits. Meticulously tailored, unexpectedly proportioned, the suits were nothing less than a preemptive strike against the nation's sartorial business casual malaise. Tom's fresh interpretation of the traditional suit reawakened the public's love of classic styling and made formal dressing cool again. Others quickly adapted his signature slim fit and the designer is now widely credited with revolutionizing men's fashion. In recognition of his creative vision and widespread influence, Tom was honored with the CFDA menswear designer of the year award in 2006 and again in 2013. The GQ designer of the year in 2008 and of course Cooper Hewitt's national design award for fashion design in 2012. Tom Brown's work has been featured in major museum exhibitions both here and abroad including Cooper Hewitt's third triennial Design Life Now, the Met Museum's Costume Institute and London's V&A. However, he truly entered fashion history when First Lady Michelle Obama chose a custom designed Tom Brown Navy silk checkout coat and checked pattern dress to wear for the President's 2013 inauguration ceremony. Tom first met the First Lady at our National Design Awards luncheon at the White House a few months prior to the inauguration so we'd like to take credit for this introduction. Tom is the first fashion designer invited to curate our selects series for which we ask influential artists, designers, thinkers and authors to mine and interpret Cooper Hewitt's extraordinary collection of over 210,000 design objects. Given Tom's genius for theatrical storytelling we were keen to see just how the riches of Cooper Hewitt's collection would inspire him. True to Tom's love of spectacle, he chose over 50 of our superbly crafted frames and mirrors some more than 300 years old and installed them in an immersive environment of his own design. A room within a room was built inside the Marx Gallery and blanketed with Osborn and Little's laser engraved holographic wall covering recently acquired by Cooper Hewitt. It's a somewhat psychedelic celebration of reflection I hope you all saw it before you came downstairs today. It is integral to Cooper Hewitt's mission to give the public access to inspiring design so I'm thrilled that our visitors now have the opportunity to experience the very unique imagination and drama of a Tom Brown installation. For our program tonight Tom will be in conversation with Matilda McQuaid who is Deputy Director of Curatorial and Head of Textiles here at Cooper Hewitt and who partnered with him many, many days in making the exhibition. Please join me in welcoming Tom and Matilda. Thank you everyone for coming. All right can everyone hear us? Good. All right so one of the things that I find so amazing about these select series is that not only do artists and designers come in and mine our collection but they also leave their own imprints somewhere and I think you've left a footprint, a few footprints, but in your exhibition. But I think it's important to see an aspect of the artist's work within the context of the museum collection. So I'm curious one of my first questions is and we're always interested in process in the Cooper Hewitt. What was the process in coming up with this idea of mirrors and frames? Looking back at some of your fashion shows which we will what I'm going to do is kind of flip through some images that Tom can speak to that relate to some of the questions I'm going to be asking but first you know talk about the design process and how it comes about. Well for me being honored by being able to do this project I really can myself open to not really coming in with an idea of what I wanted to do and really the first thing was going to the archives and going to the warehouse in Newark and really seeing what the collection was and seeing because I didn't really know what was really in the collection. Of course I knew about the textiles here at the Cooper Hewitt and how important textiles are in the collection but I thought as a fashion designer I thought there would be too expected if I were to go into the textiles. So for me going through the the collection in the warehouse and then it just happened to be something that I was interested in my own collections with the idea of reflection and mirrors so really seeing some of the the important 18th century mirrors was really where it all started and then you're really coming to you and saying okay how many mirrors do you have and where are they I want to see all of them and I want to really showcase that idea and and not particularly showcase one specific one I thought it was important because of you know how I do approach my collections and my shows I like it to be an overall experience as opposed to focusing on one thing and I think in doing that it almost creates the the idea that all of it is even more valuable and so that's the way that's really how it started and the idea of reflection was something that I had reflection in uniformity has been something that had been with me from really my first collection. But before we talk about reflection in uniformity because I remember your first idea was relates to this picture on the screen yeah you wanted a big dining experience I said what happened okay well that yeah if you're going to talk about process you have to I think in design you have to be open to evolving along and being able to navigate through the design process and for me what was most important was working with something from the collection that really stood out for me and the mirrors stood out a lot more than the dining table. I should tell you we looked I mean we should tell them the whole story Tom I mean we looked at tiles um and we have you know I mean there were yeah I mean it wasn't just automatically mirrors yeah I mean that's that's really how it happened that's how I approached design I I was open to really seeing the collection and yeah I went there and I thought because of if there was an amazing dining room table that we could use then doing that and but that didn't work out and then I thought you know there were amazing tiles and I thought it would be amazing to you know almost stealth tile the whole room so that was an idea that didn't happen so you know yeah but I think that's the important thing especially here in the museum if being a design museum like this story of being able to design and be flexible in regards to design so I guess yeah I didn't remember as well as you did but yeah it was um a good experience in regards to and even how the room looks now it's not exactly how I thought I initially was gonna look like I think it looks so much better than what I thought yeah yeah I mean it was I think um I mean it's the first time too that we haven't had where you haven't been able to go into the room I mean and and inspect each object and that was very very purposeful on your part because you wanted it I mean you should speak for yourself but you wanted it to you know be like a period room I wanted it to be true to how I I approached my shows and my collections also and my shows I do like to be an entire experience for people and of course afterwards you can you can go and you can get close and you can observe the details of everything but I think seeing the overall experience made everything that much richer and I think and then also too I mean it's the most beautiful room and in a way using the wallpaper to enhance the mirrors even more because I think the room is so beautiful on its own it's it's basically an installation on its own without anything in the room and the mirrors would have looked amazing in the room but I think they would have overpowered yeah they they're a lot more complimented by the you know and in fact what to me is so interesting is looking I you know I certainly noticed the ceiling but I notice even more now and it actually looks like one giant mirror up there too or a frame an empty frame so it really contextually it looks very much like the other objects in the room itself and I think that the wallpaper really sets off those mirrors much better yeah because we had the initial idea was to use mirror and to hang the mirrors on the mirror and I think that's another way of how design and working along with what is actually going to work because the mirror wasn't going to work the wallpaper is a better idea it just turned out to be better because it actually the mirrors look better on the wallpaper as opposed to on the mirror and it's also part of our collection so it's like a total immersive you know collection show I mean is your is the process I mean we're looking at some of these images from your which show is it in Paris this was the the Paris men's spring summer 13 yeah so in terms of when you prepare for a show like this is it similar to preparing for a show like upstairs you know it's it's different every show and that's why with this with the with the installation upstairs I don't go into a show a collection with you know so strict in regards to I have to do it this way shows start sometimes with the fabric or sometimes they start with the overall concept you know so it's different every time I mean you know this show it was really just the almost the idea of taking a very classic gray suit and putting it in an infinity box and creating the idea of a uniform can be infinitesimally beautiful and what was interesting about this show sort of bringing up ideas of uniformity is that when you first walked in because this is one show that I was able to go to and when you walk in you look at all the models around the suits look the same but then when you get closer and you realize the subtle subtle differences and I think that that's what is so unique about your work and so how does that um how do you come up with those subtle differences and and why is it so important to you um I think well that's I think one of the reasons why I do like to put on big productions because I think the the detail in the work that goes into the actual collection and the and the collection itself um when you get close to all the pieces the work and the detail and the how seriously made each piece is is so important and I think in a way it's more important for you to see that close up as opposed to you know from far away because I think the beauty is in how like kind of small and beautifully subtle the details are within the regards to the the gray suits it was more you know having a beautifully made suit and every every one of them was different but in the context of the installation they all look the same but the story really playing off of an idea that I used really from very early on in that a very uniform idea I think is I think very interesting and I think there's something very confident and unique in somebody that um can adopt that and when you talk about uniform too there's ways of expressing individuality when you have a uniform and um it could be slight and I think this is where some of the details come in because you just a slight little difference and um and yet and it can look generally the same but that slight little difference makes it unique from one next to it yeah I think you know each you know that's when the persons or the other person's um own personal style really comes in and I think that's what is more interesting with it so speaking of the visitor the visitor can't go into the space and um which is interesting so how when you are thinking of the visitor and this idea of having them peer in like in a period room or what were you what did you want them to experience yeah I like the idea of it dealing like a period room I like you know I love being in museums and being able to just like hear the room I think there's you know that that romance and that little bit of mystery that you know that you can't touch but for me it was you know really just the idea of being able to show the the room as it has an entire experience that was what was really as simple as it is that was what was more important to me because I think it made all the objects that much more important yeah and talking about sort of the experiences I mean here's another fashion show from this is the New York women's um autumn winter 2011 that was was this at the New York public library yeah so how do you pick these places I mean it's to me it's like it looks like it could be right out of some kind of movie and um and I know movies have played an important part so yeah I mean I mean the experiences and the stories in my shows really come from movies or you know just very um they are referencing something specific that I've seen a movie or a person or um something specific but I then I do like to forget enough of that reference to make sure that you don't see too much of that reference I mean this I mean I grew up Catholic so you know just play on my Catholic upbringing and have nuns and priests interacting in you know somewhat provocative way the beginning and and then reveal the collection so you know I I do like to just tell a story with the collection and and um and I do like to entertain I think there's something interesting about this the clothing is so seriously made and the collections are very seriously thought out but I think there's something really interesting and I think it makes it more interesting when you surround it by a story that sometimes isn't so serious and um and entertaining but you ever worry that are you ever concerned about that the story or narrative or the performance overshadows the the fashion no no because I think I would never put something in front of some in front of people that I wasn't so so secure and how seriously designed and made the collection is and this stool and I would I think in yeah I just would never put something in front of somebody it's like some of the as provocative as and conceptual as one of the pieces in the collection can be I would it's never Jerry Rick together just for effect I mean I've done a three-legged trouser and that three-legged trouser would have said seriously made as you know a normal two-legged trouser I haven't done one like it yet so I I never worry about that what about this show this is the homage to Oscar Schleiber and really playing with that whole Bauhaus kind of idea of just what a genius he was in regards to shape and movement and so that's really where all the shapes and mirrors again Bauhaus mirrors yeah so was that something you were considering for our show or your show just infinity and this is this one is your the Paris men's auto winter 14 tell us a little bit about that this is one of this is a very important show because I think it is one of the shows that is very indicative on how I really approach my shows now and that being it's of course the collection and the collection is important but I I am starting to feel like it's important to surround the collection by not just an experience or you know a story sometimes an installation or you know something that is more outside of the world of fashion and I think this one is important because it I think it marries the world of fashion and and hard installation in that the installation is covered in sort of fabrics but I think on its own I think it stands on its own and you know I would never you know give my collections credit in being art or you know that but I think the installation of the show is I think it is a piece of art what about your clothing as design do you see it as design definitely design yeah and I don't know that's not the design award so I hope you know I think it's you know the world of art and fashion sometimes it's you know it's always you know it's always a conversation and I think you know I would never give my collections are seriously made pieces of clothing and um that's what they are and I think there are designers in fashion that do create the most beautiful pieces of art in their collection and are you saying those are more temporal or more a federal than what you make um no I mean I think um or is the quality less no no I think it's the whole thing like I think it's I don't know I mean it's it's you know giving yourself credit as being I think I think I make beautiful clothing well I know I think we talked about this in our initial interview in the first show about sometimes people just like to over intellectual and over intellectualized things and um I think you know you have that famous quote about I ignorance is less no I forgot to write it down but it's not it's not being perfectly made but oh I think it becomes really boring if it's really if it's perfectly made and you know there's so much um what did I say I don't want to make it something like I don't want to make a perfect but it should be perfectly made or something to them well I think you know it gets really boring if it's so serious and it's a project right I think a little bit of um so you didn't iron your shirt did you I didn't know I never sure no I think I'm sorry yeah but it's bad it's like it's almost like a a Japanese sense of beauty too where you know there's always some imperfection yeah small imperfection and it can be as you know a wrinkled shirt or you know mismatched socks whatever it is but it's you know it can be it can still be beautiful yeah and I contrast to between sort of the perfect you know tailored shirt and then that other twist on it I think it also even plays into you know using references for your work but making sure that you forget enough of that reference to make it your own and I think that's um what makes a reference more interesting and makes it more relevant to what you're doing I mean one thing that I I really appreciate about you as a designer artist is that you are um you're pretty humble and you're empathic and um you feel for the visitors when they come in and in fact your statement upstairs talks about that that you want people you want the visitor to feel confident when they look in the mirror and people say well you can't really see yourself in the mirror I said well look at the wallpaper you can see yourself sort of in a mirror but um so how how did that I mean and you're a fashion designer sometimes that could be you know mutually or contradictory I guess in terms of this humbleness and empathy so where does that come from really I don't know I guess my parents are I don't tell no I think you know especially upstairs I think what makes the installation more interesting I think is that everybody has their own experience because you know the person looking in the mirror can that's their experience and no one can have that experience and so I think that's what makes it you know special to every every person that walks yeah I mean I think the visitors have all been sort of awed by when they you know come in and sort of see it and you see just you know cell phones kind of photographing every single angle so I think that they you definitely you know they feel something they're drawn to it and even though it's not something you can go into you can go far enough into to feel that sort of experience of the whole space yeah and that was really what I wanted people to have a an experience and you know it could be an experience maybe that you know somebody walks in they don't like it and I think that's also important I think there's something really important about design that you're not doing something that's going to be please you know pleasant for everyone I think if you you if you want to do interesting design or if you want to be in any way provocative you have to expect somebody not to like it and if you're if you're not expecting that then you're kidding yourself and I think I think that is the true test of good design is making sure that you are a little bit nervous and that you feel like you know you feel 100% confident in what it is and what you're doing but that you know that it's pushing it far enough so that somebody may you know not everyone's gonna like it and I think that's more and more important and does that kind of tie into this whole idea of because it's interesting the show has I mean except for you know the 102 pairs of brogues there's nothing else you know of your fashion in the exhibition so how was it working on a show when your own own clothing wasn't the center of the show I mean it was easy because the collection of mirrors was something that was so I connected and it was very easy just because of that and and also to the idea of the mirror and the story of reflection and it just was something that I thought was really interesting and I thought it would work in the room and you know just so my it didn't matter at all okay but your shoes provide an incredible texture I think to the to the whole installation and you know I think work well with the wall coverings on the floor and on the wall so I think it gives that sort of I think it would look empty without the shoes there well I think like you were saying at the beginning I think it's important that people walk in they see of course the collection from the museum but also see okay what is Tom bringing to this other than just putting the mirrors in the room which would have been you know interesting but I think I wouldn't have put the the installation with the shoes in the desk in the room if it didn't really enhance the collection from the museum and that's what was most important for me was that it it really created a whole story that enhanced the collection should keep on going um so tell me a little bit more I mean you know people talk about and you've talked about how movies influence you books can you just name a few and if there's anything like in this particular show which is the Paris Men's Autumn Water 15 what was the story you were telling in here this was a stupid yeah it's a story of um a young guy who is a writer and he really spent his whole life trying to write the perfect story and he just happened to wake up and he this was the last day of his life and he had finished that perfect story so he was ready to go no I'm not a writer but I think and that's why you know the stories are very they're never taken seriously or in a dark way I mean you listen to a story and you know somebody could think like but it was more like it was more this story and respecting somebody that has like really wanted to do wanting to do something so important with their life and and then appreciating that life and and as and simply that did it come was it from a book or a movie or something you had seen or was it just straight out of your mind straight out of my mind and we I mean one thing that we also had talked about in the end of you was dreams I know Vicki was talking about dreams and so do you have a lot of strange dreams I do dream a lot yeah and does any of this come out in your work it does I think subconsciously but I am the worst you know how you always want to remember the dream that I never seem to remember my dreams but I do remember waking up thinking that was bizarre but so but I think subconsciously yeah but I mean the stories you know because there's so many different like kind of things that come into my stories in the collections there's it's never a I think they all work as a story but it's not like I set out the story and that's exactly what you see I mean like with the with this one did you have so this is not really a story this is just a I think a beautiful experience I mean this is really just you know the idea of my appreciation for Japan and their appreciation for basically everything and you know the beauty of the kimono and the fabrics to being developed felt they weren't developed in Japan but they they just made the most beautiful kimono and you know then the idea of taking very self-moric Japanese references and and then in Tarja in Tarja in them into very classic pieces of clothing which the work that went into all the in Tarja pieces is incredible and is so intense and made the most beautiful pieces of clothing and so it's basically just the appreciation of beautifully beautiful things and then the women show that season two taking that whole idea but then playing with the idea of you know the Japanese schoolgirl but then placing it in America and then turning the schoolhouse upside down and so it was like an evolving story that just created the story at the end it wasn't like at the beginning I thought all of this at once yeah there were like little ideas that just came along the way and it just created the story like the hair I mean it all kind of happened all the way so how long did this in this particular show I mean when did you start thinking about it and when did it all kind of coalesce well we never have enough time for the shows but you know it's you know with the collections themselves the shows it's almost like six months six months I mean it's never really like that because I'm always late not so late but you know sometimes it's just in order to create an interesting idea just it just takes longer than you know sometimes it takes longer and this is why sometimes you know the the fabrics being developed can work into the story or the idea works into the fabric so it all like kind of plays into each other so in this one did the fabric the fabric ever come first or is it always the idea the idea of the entourage of fabrics definitely was the one of the first ideas yeah and you said that wasn't done in japan it was done here it was pieced well men's but it it was done not not all in japan but it's all but you said there was hundreds of pieces yet each piece there were a million hundreds of pattern pieces per piece because everything it wasn't applicated it was all entortured to create that pattern so it would be a lot easier to applique and then but we took the hardware it's incredible and so what about now this one this is a relatively recent one right this is the last show so well this is where you know the idea of mirrors you know the idea of the mirrors here played into you know influencing and coming into this show and the idea of all the the frames were mirrors that the the story of the question was the a person in the early 20s lived through the depression and loved his clothing so much that he wore it until it was very thread there and as opposed to going on buying clothing new clothing he loved his clothing so much that he didn't need to buy your clothing he wore it and just and it got even more beautiful as it aged and then at the end him seeing his reflection from when it was branded see the stories are sometimes aren't as interesting as it but you know as an overall effect we kind of kind of yeah because then you see each stage of that deterioration right of the orbits and that's why the getting close to the the overall experience was really beautiful and and worked as a show but then getting close to the clothing themselves i mean seeing the the work that went into the actual age pieces is is just really beautiful because how did they age them we well some of them were actually um embroidered to look old and then some were actually aged like we worked it and you know washed washed them and towards but i didn't want it to look um i wanted it to look like we did it as opposed to just throwing your washer and dryer so is is all of your work done here in the states or do you do it all over depending on the embroidery is done over you know not here um we do some here but um a lot most of the collection pieces or we do actually do here in new york okay so if you have your yeah the tailor and this one this is our washington square park washington square park yeah um yeah i mean this was really taking the idea the men's show was like taking clothing that you love to wear and you you as opposed to going out and buying new clothing the women's idea was not it becoming threadbare actually taking the clothing and reappropriating different clothing to create different pieces of clothing and that was the idea of the selection so you have the tie that's appropriated from well then that the tie really came from the idea of tailoring is is very important for my women's collections as well and then also to the idea of using men's and references and the tie you know i know a lot i know a lot of women don't like wearing ties because you know it's very constricting and a lot of guys don't either but um the taking the idea of the tie and creating almost a you know a fascinator you know have a tie so one thing that's interesting in terms of your fashion shows because they're you know there's only a exclusive few that get the opportunity to see them which is um you know quite an honor and um showing a few kind of um sort of press so it's a very ephemeral experience so how do you handle permanence if this is actually much more permanent kind of installation or show than you're normally used to doing and how does that um either change your approach or how i mean how do you um what is there a difference between the two a more ephemeral fashion show or a longer you know standing exhibition or some of your other environment or your your showrooms now i wish i mean i wish people could see or more people could see the the shows because you know we we do approach them as real um experiences that we wish you know could you know live past the shows and that is really one of the reasons why a lot of the shows are being surrounded by installations and um there's like the um the animal and um farce scene at menswear peppers is something that is in storage and i would love to be somewhere because it's just a beautiful object and i think a lot of people would be interested in seeing it and yeah i mean knowing that that's going to be up for six months is it's amazing because the show lasts 20 minutes at the longest and that believe it or not people think that's long um you spend six months on a collection and people complain if your show is more than 15 minutes so um so i yeah i wish people could see more more i'm but i think every desire would would say the same thing because there's so much work and there's just so much emotion and so much a part of who you are in those six months that you know that is gone in 15 minutes and you know sometimes it's over and it's it's just too short and what is the percentage of the clothes that you show in those shows that actually become commercially viable or that you actually um i mean it depends i mean depends on how conceptual the show is but you a lot of the conceptual pieces are you know you don't have to make a lot of them because they're you can't make a lot of them and a lot of them do get purchased so this is one of your um this is your shop here so how do you treat this differently from or do you treat it differently from your fashion shows in terms of presentation does this does this evolve over time does it change does it stay the same the store is pretty much it's it's like one idea i mean i think there's because i think especially with the stores i like it to be a very clear idea when people walk in on what it is and it hasn't changed that much because i specifically wanted it to feel very timeless and i wanted it to feel like it didn't need to change and i think in a way that is sometimes the problem and with fashion and how sometimes people think it always needs to change as opposed to just evolved along the way and i think i think having a really clear idea on what you want to design for people and represent for people in regards to what you design and then evolve every season i think it looks so much more interesting um than schizophrenically changing yeah because as you're all this hard press to find the clothing in there you know because it looks like it could be a reception area or that's an old picture okay there's more okay no i mean yeah i don't worry there isn't any clothing there there's a little rack over there no i mean i do also approach that my retail stores not in a true like retail way i do like it to be just like upstairs i like people to walk on it to be inexperienced and i mean we do very good business down there but um and there is there is more in there but i think it's more interesting that you know it's it's a whole thing it's not just you're walking into to buy clothing you're you're getting some type of experience as well and this is your Tokyo store the door like believe me i who was the architect i worked with um a guy and um what is his name i say yama and he's from Wonderwall oh yeah yeah um we're very close with him and you know the one thing about the stores to going forward it's almost it's been designed so it's not like they have to change i think certain markets and especially japan because of how i think they appreciate conceptual design i love the idea of a retail store with no windows because i hate mannequins so i didn't need any windows but i also wanted the door to be even smaller than that but they said it would be there it's hard to see even how big it is it's no it it looks really narrow yeah it looks it has the feeling like it's really small and the signs that i never have signage on the outside of so you don't know if it's if you're at the right place well no you can see but i still don't see any clothes well these these are not there is clothing so is that so each floor because there is the idea of my first was really to replicate or reference a 1950s american office and so all the floors have a feeling of an office in reference to a desk and chairs so similar to what is upstairs yeah well upstairs was really and that's what almost plays into the idea of design really evolving the idea of the desk and the and a chair and the uniform idea was one of my first shows a show i did in Florence where i had 40 guys all in the same gray suit sorry yeah this is the show and so the the idea of a very uniform idea and the idea of it all being looking so interesting because it was that experience and so upstairs you're you're getting like a like an evolution of what i yes well what led to the nickel plating or to make it even incredibly reflective which i'll show i'm sorry i'm gonna go back it really came down to the shoes because the shoes and the silver plated shoes i did first for the show in paris and that was really taking the idea of my mother silver plated all of our our first pair of shoes so it took that very very simple idea and taking my shoe and creating the show out of that and these are your size shoes right they're a little bigger but yeah so this is the show in Paris that you did it and this is an installation upstairs so there's quite a there's an interesting parallel yeah that's what i was saying i'm really going through and this show came to be what it is because of you know even what i was thinking about in my own personal work so i think it you know it's very i think it's very personal i think it's i think that is something important when people walk in that they do feel like it's not like something that you feel something that i yeah no you definitely i think and that's what i appreciate in the beginning is that you see you feel the presence you see the presence of the designer or the artist and all this lex shows and with this one i think it's even more pronounced in the sense that you know i think by the fact that you can't go in it and you've created this kind of performance stage you know for this work and for the the collection i think makes it even that much more special and even and unique and we have i mean i think these were two of your these were really special and the you know the 18th century the larger is the two larger right because i don't have the image of but you can see upstairs and i have to say that what's so interesting about doing these shows with designers is that you do discover our work and i know sarah cofton from our um product design decorative arts i mean you probably knew you know a lot of these but i certainly didn't and but i think we we've never exhibited most of them so to have the opportunity to finally get them out cleaned conserved um is very rare and with a museum of 210 plus thousand objects and for you to focus on this collection was was great um and i think helped a lot so have you ever designed any mirrors is that something you would want to do um yeah yes well there is it there is a there is a compact upstairs oh yes we did do a compact in the bedroom yeah so i guess i have so that's what you want to continue do you see continuing this idea of mirrors and reflections and your or do you think this is a theme that's you're done with it i'm not done with it but i'm because it's it's an ongoing the idea of uniformity and reflect reflection upon your you know upon oneself and just being comfortable with yourself i think that's more than this the story that will stay with me i don't i don't need to do a mirror room again um we'll never say never i mean but i think you're so good travel okay um no because i think there is an interesting interactive element to the installation as well i think the silver shoes um you know the world we live in everybody loves to see what what everyone is doing in you know during their day and i think you know the installations that the i think the city has sometimes of objects around the city and people taking pictures of themselves with the objects i think there's something interesting about um people interacting with art that way and i think the silver shoes i think it is interesting to see people and trying to put those shoes on because they look so big but in actuality because there's their their step i mean they are solid so actually getting in them is not as easy as it as it looks i i try i did try i i i got it but i think people interacting with art i think is why yeah and we're working on this possibility of trying to place them around the city if we can get a few permits in place um i'm gonna ask just like one um one final question and then i'm gonna i think throw it open to the to the audience i'm sure there's lots of questions um but i'm curious is you started off with menswear and then you um you took on women's wear is one more difficult than the other um or are they just different they're just different um i worked on really the same um i think women's is somewhat more challenging just because um there's been a lot more done um with men there's only so much you can really do um and i think i pushed it you know pretty far with men's with women's i think it's i mean it's good and i think i love i love the challenge so anything coming up that you're particularly focused on i mean beside the next show is there any i mean is there sportswear i know you've done sportswear but is there any other area of fashion that you want to get into uh shoes other shoes um we have a lot of shoes um no i think we do have so much that we do within the collection said you know every season there's so much that's added and you know brought into the the whole mix so um in fashion no i'd love for it to just be in my world but i love you know i love doing things outside of fashion this is what was so um what is so interesting to do i was so interesting because i loved being you know you know bringing my sensibility into other worlds okay do we have any questions from the audience and there's a mic i think we're gonna um have you speaking to the mic because it's being strange live yeah i didn't tell you that hi um yeah i just have a quick question about you know obviously this is a bad informant you know as you're talking about with this collection right here it's it's all about almost like this fifties american office aesthetic so i guess my real questions of where where did you originally get that inspiration from why specifically from your experiences i guess in your life or where did that love for this kind of uniformity across the board it was really it's a it comes from a lot of different places but i think i grew up in a big family very classic middle american family my father dressed this way and so it was something that i was very um comfortable with i i grew up with it and for me what was more interesting to me if i wanted to get into fashion was to take something that i think most people thought was really boring and reinterpreted in a way that maybe it wasn't so boring anymore and and also to it was like this i was very conscious at the beginning to start with something that was so pure to what i wanted to put in front of people and also something that i could really build on and this was something that was very personal to me and i knew that that it wasn't going to be fashion because it was something very timeless and very personal that i always would want around i i want to just one thing because i notice a lot of students out here i'm not sure if you were a fashion design student but what would you what kind of advice would you offer fashion students to learn learn how to make clothing i think that's the most learn how to make patterns and learn how to make clothing because there's the most valuable people in the world of fashion are the people that know how to make patterns and know how to make the clothes um that's first because i think that is so undervalued and um i think if you're wanting to get into fashion to be famous and to be rich you shouldn't go into fashion um and then i think the most then the other thing is really just be true to yourself because um no one can be you and i think if you're true to yourself and you design something that is so true to you even if people don't understand it they will understand it that much more if it's very true to who you are and what you want to give to people thank you Elizabeth um um i'm not a fashion student but um if if it's someone one of your designers but uh doesn't have any jewelry from fashion i was a professional like when she um did it so what is the next step can be um become a designer um well i wasn't a fashion student either so yeah economy yeah okay um i think you know the most important thing is to appreciate the the craft of making clothing and if you can if you have an idea on your own and you you know it really comes down to making beautiful clothing for me um because i think we live in a world that there's so much out there that i think real quality does stand out and um i think if you're not fashion you just have to get in fashion and in turn that's you know maybe some place that is interesting to you and and just be you know be ready to work because it's a lot of work so what was your first job in fashion um i was at uh georgia wine as uh sale okay well i was the receptionist first yeah i got fired hi i'm a fashion student of the person and i some ideas for the installation for you can i email to you sure i just wanted to see if we could press you a little bit more on sort of your reluctance to label your work as art and label yourself as an artist and sort of really get down to what you think the difference between art and design i think i'm not reluctant to well i'm reluctant to label myself i would rather if somebody thinks that i am then let them say that i just like to focus on what i'm doing and i love what i do i love making clothing but then i also love putting experiences in front of people and i love to put installations together i love to tell a story i love to entertain and that's what i'm gonna i'm gonna mess up to that and i'll let other people then label label that however they want to label hi uh so you mentioned a few times that like an idea was beautiful or clothes were beautiful to you i was wondering how you have an idea and like no it's beautiful like what does that mean to you um well it's instinctual um and i think it's simply that um i think yeah i mean i think it comes down to instinct and you know i think sometimes i do things that people maybe think aren't beautiful and that's fine but i i know instinctually i am i feel that it is well and you talked earlier about sort of the criteria of beauty i mean something that has to be really well made i mean the fabrics that you select are extraordinary and have a beautiful hand to them so they're you know there's um so that text that the beautiful textile qualities are things that um you know are very important well the quality of the collections is really what is most important and i think you know because i you know it is really the most important thing and and i think the quality even in just how the um the shows are put together everything is there's they're very seriously thought out and um there's just a lot of thought that goes into them and um you know sometimes i you know when the show comes together it's even better than i even thought um it's so it's you know it's all you know i think you have to go with your instincts sometimes because i think if you over study something i think you can lose it and i think if you over study something or over think it or over intellectualize something it may not be as interesting as if that's interesting as if they leave yourself open to just laying it out yeah and i think i mean because there are several articles that have come up with that have these writers go very deep into you know the intellectual or the philosophical ramifications of you know your collections and it's that you said it's it could be a very simple well yeah i mean that sometimes narrative and and i of course you put things in front of people and they will have their own interpretation of it and that's that is great um but it's not always my interpretation it's it is theirs and i love that they have it but my interpretation is a lot of times not as intellectual as they seem to want to make it and um you know sometimes it's a very simple story a simple idea that you know that you know can reference something more but a lot of times designers cite musical references in their work and we've had a few collections that look vaguely gothic or bring up also your catholic upbringing would you say that's the genre of music that you can reference to gothic music um i was wondering to what extent i know that you said that you draw a lot of inspiration from dreams or personal experiences um but for the actual design of the clothing do you draw any inspiration from any costume history in particular or any designers um i i mean that is a good really good question because i try to know as little as possible of what other designers are doing of course referencing what has been done in the past is something that is important but not doing as much research as i think a lot of people would want to do because i feel sometimes it's crippling because when you see something there has been there have been really amazing beautiful things that have been done in the past and sometimes when you actually see it it's i think can sometimes be crippling because it's been done so beautifully like why even try so knowing it's little in the world of fashion i think for me is important because it makes it so much easier and that's why i said ignorance is less and do you do you make your um design team also be ignorant about fashion no i think i don't make them do anything but um i think it does because they are so talented and they wouldn't be with me if they weren't um that i love just what comes out of their head and um i think that's just so much more interesting and i i really do believe it makes it easier it really does make design easier because it it just frees you up you can do anything as opposed to seeing a reference we're referencing something specific and trying to think okay how do i make it mine and of course we all have references in our head but forgetting enough of and enough of it i think makes it yours i um actually i got medium questions for you but i'll tell you two questions first i know you were actor before you were designer that one yeah yeah um because my measure was not a fashion design before i was measuring english literature so i would like to know how do you overcome the gap like well i think across the gap yeah i think what i said before you really just have to get in fashion i mean i think i learn every day from you know the people that worked with me because they are amazing designers and i also have learned so much from rocko who was the tailor that i started with and so you just have to do it you just think you're not in school you then you want to be in it you just have to get in it and start so i think we have time for one more question i know you touched on earlier about how some people get upset that you have like a 20 minute long show or and i just was wondering because i know i've seen i feel like we were all seeing pictures back we were like i can't imagine how that would look in person and i wonder what your dream scenario would be to show your collection i mean the way that it works is you only have that much time so i mean you at the show is the show and it's it's always going to be you know somewhat the same unless you want to i don't know how it would be different and yeah i guess it's just me crying that i want people to see it longer but yeah i think it's always going to be that way so i don't know thank you very much thank you