 It was the third time we'd matched she messaged first. I was drunk enough to send a message But not enough to make me creative or funny. She replied though. It's been about five months now I wish you could just enjoy it and I do I think When I'm with her I do just enjoy it, but when we're not together and I'm alone I just start obsessing over next year whether we'll be together. What we'll be doing. I can't even picture next year I got an offer for this sculpture masters the one I've always wanted and I think I'm probably gonna turn it down Um When I got the offer I Just thought you bitch You selfish bitch sculpture really now I get stuck in this mental whirlpool of trying to focus on the immediate future And not being able to think about the immediate future without thinking about the long-term future And not being able to think about the long-term future because we don't have one We don't like Everything I do right now feels selfish Every morning I read another article telling me that we have 20 years left 12 10 It's these five years or the world will fall apart making art is selfish and being vegan is selfish and Saying I'm never gonna fly again would be downright narcissistic because it's probably just to make people think that I'm a better person I mean it already is falling apart in some places, but People here read that on the news and think oh It must be normal It must be normal for countries like that to have tsunamis and 30 degree heat one day followed by minus 20 the next And floods that displace your entire home family life in my application I winged on about my environmentally conscious practice and now it's all about grassroots shit And if we set a new precedent everyone will follow. I know I have to do something But I don't know what I've always known what I wanted to do after college and now that I don't It's almost embarrassing I only use recycled materials and I did this whole installation where I repurposed the sculptures I'd made It's this never-ending journey of reduce reuse recycle. It's really powerful and it's going to make people think I don't have a superiority complex. I'm pretty sure I have a superiority complex I'm just not used to seeing nothing in front of me We've all entertained the notion that our art can change the world But I think part of being an artist is reaching that point where you're like that's Bullshit I'm doing this because I like it. I think I'm cleaning on to theo Clinging on to her because she's there And she's great And I just want something I can hold onto I know also that wanting to be with someone away from the world and away from all that I know that that's selfish Everyone keeps telling me that I should trust my gus That only I know how I feel that I would know if I was using her taking advantage of her I think I'm going to turn down the masters Seriously, I feel like I should be doing something more meaningful with my life I have no idea what that is though Do you want to come over you can stay with me for a while If you want I'd like that all those tiny plays that are so powerful You're all very welcome back ladies and gentlemen We've two remaining sessions for you this afternoon As you see in this session we'll be looking at delivering the clean energy transformation And just to say I'm going to shortly introduce our panel of speakers, but to continue using Slido for your questions If anyone does want to submit a handwritten one I don't know if anyone has done that yet, but there's plenty of colleagues about the room who can do that As you can see there are three speakers joining me on stage and I will introduce them shortly But our first speaker is joining us from Washington, D.C. today and we're delighted to welcome Dr Varun Svaram to the accelerate conference He's a physicist best-selling author and clean energy technology expert with experience spanning the corporate public and academic Sectors he is currently serves in the biden harris administration as the senior director for clean energy innovation And competitive risk for secretary john carry who knows the us special presidential envoy for climate To tell us a little bit more about the american framework for a clean energy future Let's hand over the virtual floor to Varun Thank you so much. Um, and congratulations to the iiea on this extraordinary conference I am just so, uh distress that I could not make the journey over to dublin But I do want to take this moment to congratulate ireland on everything that it's done at roughly 50 percent Of its electricity from renewables ireland is a beacon for the rest of the world Including my own country on how to get to a high penetration renewable future Particularly want to salute the work of minister amen ryan a friend who have gotten to see in many events over the last couple of years As our paths have crossed Today, let me just say out front We speak against the backdrop of latest horrific attacks on ukraine in russia's unprovoked and unjustified war underscores yet again the importance of standing with our european allies on energy issues and swiftly transitioning to net zero to bolster europe's energy security In the end states and president biden's administration have put climate and energy security right up front on the agenda Uh, I I worked for secretary john carrey who is the first ever u.s official solely dedicated to climate as the u.s special presidential envoy who also has a seat on the national security council And president biden when he took office in 2021 on day one rejoined the paris climate agreement And didn't stop there within three months president biden announced that the united states would raise our own ambition you know after long last and Increase our nationally determined contribution n dc to a 50 percent 50 to 52 reduction in greenhouse gas emissions economy wide in 2030 We went to glasgo with secretary carrey leading our delegation with 65 of the world by gdp Raising their n dc's in line with a net zero by 2050 future and this year as we go to charmel shake in egypt for pop 27 We know it's the implementation pop the one where we meet our pledges and bring along the rest of the world that hasn't yet raised their ambition commensurately But here in the united states and that's what i want to talk to you about today We have taken those steps to begin implementing our pledge How do we reach our n dc of 50 percent? Well It started last year with the bipartisan infrastructure law that president biden signed into law Tens of billions of dollars to invest in emerging clean technologies like hydrogen hubs around united states And it continued this year with a absolutely historic piece of legislation This year we passed in august the inflation reduction act Say where we're speaking in dublin. It is unfortunately got the acronym the ira But but the the inflation reduction act Is our climate bill it has An extraordinary set of investments across the economy That when paired with the last year's bipartisan infrastructure law and a range of executive actions and subnational action cities and states It's going to get us to the united states 50 to 52 target reduction. How's it going to do it? Well between now and 2030 The principal ways that the us will reduce our emissions are first In the power sector where clean energy firm wind and solar backed up by batteries Transmitted through long transmission lines. All of this is going to reduce our emissions sharply in the power sector And in the transportation sector Thanks to the ira We're going to have incentives that bring electric vehicles as a share of new car sales to more than 50 percent in this country It's accelerated. It's like the name of this conference. It's really accelerated the progress of our clean energy transition in this decade So that energy transition is well underway in power and passenger transportation But I think the ira could be even more important Not just the united states but even globally For the harder to abate sectors those long distance transportation sectors like aviation and shipping those heavy industries like steel cement concrete aluminum In these sectors the energy transition simply hasn't started yet And it's going to need to accelerate Now the united states will account for Between now and 2100 Less than five percent of global emissions more than 95 percent will be from outside of our borders And so it's that much more important that anything we do has to have spillover effects The ira Gives the incentives the technology incentives to drive down the costs of these emerging technologies Not just the united states but all over the world to boost the clean energy transition in ireland or in india or in indonesia I'll also say that innovation is so important and today my talk is called energizing america After a book i wrote right before joining which asked the us to Triple its investment in research development and demonstration and we are on our way i'm proud to say But it's countries around the world joining with us President biden announced a 90 billion dollar challenge in june for the world to unite and invest 90 billion dollars In demonstrating emerging innovative technologies And i'm proud to say that just two weeks ago in pittsburgh the us hosted the global clean energy forum And 16 countries joined us to pledge 94 billion dollars and shattered that target in just two months of diplomacy What i'd like to do now is just show some slides if the technology wouldn't mind putting up the slides I i'd love to show some slides quickly About how the united states not only is investing in these technologies at home But we're catalyzing the demand for these technologies through president biden's signature public private partnership The first movers coalition Together with the ira. We're going to support the supply of and the demand for new technologies As you can see here The first movers coalition creates early market demand for these critical technologies In these hard to abate sectors. It was launched by president biden at cop 26 And earlier this year at davos with bill gates secretary carry and other CEOs broadened the coalition next slide please The coalition covers Eight different hard to abate sectors they represent more than 30 percent of today's carbon emissions, but a majority by 2050 if we don't act quickly enough These sectors that we've already launched You see on the left hand side aviation steel shipping trucking and then aluminum and carbon dioxide removal And charmel shake will launch a concrete sector and next year will launch the chemical sector next slide Overall nearly 60 companies. I think we're actually at 60 as of this morning 60 companies have joined us They represent more than 10 percent of the global fortune 2000 market cap. These are the biggest companies in the world Nine governments have joined us They represent 50 percent of global GDP and you see the companies and what commitments they've made on the right hand side Now walk through some of these commitments In just a moment next slide, please Here's an example In the steel sector What a first mover company like ford motor that signed up for this coalition is doing Is they've committed to buy 10 percent of their steel in 2030 from near zero carbon sources Think about it. There is no near zero carbon steel supplies that for one plant in sweden today But by 2050 on the left hand side You can see that we have to use these emerging nascent technologies to get to 100 percent green steel The only way to do that is to create an early market center Now we did this with life-saving vaccines We promised to buy a certain quantity of life-saving vaccines and madurna and fizer brought them to market We promised to pay for companies that would bring commercial space flight to the market and SpaceX did so In clean energy, we can do the exact same thing ford motor. Therefore is bringing this technology to market next slide Now the reason that this is possible is because in the United States As well as in europe Incentives will drive down the cost of building these facilities Before the ira. There was a green premium Uh premium cost of building a green steel plant versus a non-green steel plant of more than a hundred dollars a ton Now with the ira We're able to depending on which technology you use whether it's carbon capture on the left hand side or green hydrogen on the right hand side Oh, let's go back to that You are able to get clean steel for nearly or exactly the same price as dirty steel And that is game changing next slide In aviation companies like united and delta and apple have all said we will use a small part of our supply chain five percent Of our jet fuel And replace it with clean fuels that reduce emissions by 85 or more. That's not even today's safts That's the next generation of sustainable aviation fuels Those that for example are powered of liquids that use clean hydrogen and captured carbon dioxide next slide, please and Thanks to the ira. We have costs of these new technologies in 2030 That can quickly approach the cost of jet fuel today. Next slide, please For shipping fuels like ammonia green ammonia produced using green hydrogen Could become nearly free by 2030. Thanks to these incentives for producing hydrogen or for carbon For capturing carbon through the 45 q incentive Next next slide, please For direct air capture the cost could be less than a hundred dollars a ton in 2030 That's an order of magnitude below where it sits today to sequester carbon permanently from the atmosphere for thousands of years Next slide, please and finally Near zero carbon cement could go to free or even negative cost by 2030. Thanks to these incentives So as a result of all of these incentives and of the demand that we've created through the first movers coalition We have a chance yet in states To reduce the cost of clean technologies that are not yet on the market today And by bringing these innovative technologies to the market We lowered their costs and speed the net zero transitions in countries around the world So that the united states is not just hitting our own Less than five percent of future cumulative global emissions We are affecting the 95 plus percent of future global cumulative emissions all over the world Can we come off the slide deck, please? I'll just close by saying Um today is an exciting day. I'm so excited to hear the other panelists and to hear your questions Critically There is no time to wait. It is equally important that in this decade We spend the time reducing our emissions through the technologies. We already have whether it's solar and wind and batteries and electric vehicles And that we spend this decade investing in the technologies that we need Whether it's clean hydrogen carbon capture long duration storage advanced nuclear and on and on You do those two things in tandem and you will see immediate gains this decade from the technologies we have And you will see the 2030s and 2040s witness a historic scale-up to reduce the costs of providing some of the pillars Of the global economy from ammonia to steel to cement to plastics That's what we will need to decarbonize the whole economy You can't do one without the other and i'm delighted that the united states is playing this leadership role Along with our partners like ireland And our other allies in europe and countries all over the world. Thanks so much and i look forward to the discussion And Thank you so much for in particularly because i know it's a much earlier start for you in dc and you're right It's not too many conversations in public in ireland where you hear peppered with praise Thanks to the ira, but we appreciate it It was amazing just to see the transformative power of that act So let's bring it Back to domestic level now our next speaker is going to question Delivering the change needed to meet the net zero target by reflecting on ireland's 2030 and 2050 targets dr Paul dean is a research fellow in clean energy futures at the environmental research institutes mario center in ucc He's authored and co-authored over 120 technical papers on the future of energy He is he is a first author on ireland's low carbon roadmap in 2015 He's an active contributor also not just a domestic but european policy thinking Clean energy and in 2019 was the royal art academy speaker in computer science and engineering So without further ado, we'll give the floor over to you Wonderful introduction you've never guessed that i actually wrote that myself. Thank you very much Uh, good afternoon everyone look climate action is fundamentally About reducing emissions, you know, it's we talk a lot about evs. We talk a lot about heat pumps Hydrogen offshore wind etc. That's all necessary Essentially they're proxies for climate action, you know, it's really about reducing emissions and really what my Presentation is about this afternoon is a stock taken. How are we doing in climate action ireland? It's fundamentally important that we have these since checks When I talk about climate action in a public domain, you typically get, you know, three responses, you know Typically in a more public domain You get the I suppose the the typical response that ah, sure The climate has always changed and yes, that's true But it has changed over geological time periods and now it's changing over generational time periods That's worrying. It's different and there's a need for action You hear the typical refrain as well just heard on the radio recently Ash or iron the small our emissions are tiny. We don't really matter. Yeah, look, we're one percent of global greenhouse gas emissions That's a coincidence. Geography. We're a small island. We're a small population If we look at the consequences of our actions of our the way we live the way we consume The way we use energy the way we produce energy the way we farm Then Ireland as a citizen We were one of the largest polluters of greenhouse gases on a per person basis in europe That's not a really good record to have And then you hear about look, we're doing well, you know, Ireland is doing very well. We're producing 40 percent of our electricity We're a world leader But we confuse electricity with energy We are one of the most fossil fuel relying countries in europe Today, we're spending 1 million euros every hour Importing oil and gas into our country for a country that's so rich in ideas and renewable resources both onshore and offshore Our ability to grow energy our ability to save energy. We're not in a healthy space So I want to do a since check in the stock take of where we are in terms of our climate action There is a tendency sometimes and it's necessary and I get it to get swept up in a way of optimism for the future We talk about 2050 30 years away That's very necessary. That's very compelling. But a lot of our challenges are actually today The next three to four years Ireland has set quite correctly science-based targets for climate action Based on the fact that it's not the emissions for some point in time that matter in 2050 or 2040 It's the cumulative build-up of emissions the pollution from the cumulative build-up of emissions It's that is what's harming our planet. It's a little bit like smoking if you go into your doctor and say, hey, look I'm not if I smoke i'm going to quit smoking in 30 years time. That's great That's the cumulative build-up of that smoking that's damaging our lungs. It's the cumulative build-up of emissions From our society from our families from our communities right across Ireland right across the world That's driving climate change and quite correctly and thankfully the Irish government a number of years ago Said science-based targets based on cumulative emissions impacts So it's important that we don't get too swept up in the optimism for the future Which is necessary the cumulative build-up of emissions requires us to think about now It requires us to act early And it requires us to not address the problems in the future But address the problems that we have in the present and as we see from my sharp presentation But there's some really big challenges fundamentally facing Ireland so The title of my presentation as I stare down right here now is actually completely wrong It's actually it's actually talking for about the year 2025 And that's because that is the first legislative period that we will have in Ireland's carbon budgets So a couple of weeks ago the Irish government announced legally binding cumulative carbon budgets based on carbon ceilings and The check-in time for that is in december 2025 So when we think about climate action, we often think well, we can delay our problems You know to the future 2040 2050 December 2025 We're the first call for reckoning and we will see how Ireland is doing and with my friends down in ucc You see professor bryan o galler here, professor hannah daly in ucc caron o callan amy holland We did a small sense check on where emissions are going at the moment I've only one slide with a packs of punch The climate legislation that we have in Ireland states that The cumulative emissions are important. It's that what really matters And I want to draw your attention first of all to the big Circle on the right-hand side Our legislation states that we can only emit as a society as communities as families a maximum of 295 million tons of carbon dioxide equivalent between january 2021 and december 2025 60 month period, okay When my colleagues in ucc, we've checked in we're 18 months into that first legislative period And as the top of the graph says We're about 30 into the time frame and we've already burned through about 36 of our carbon budget So we're less than a third of the way there and we've burned through over a third of the budget already That's worrying because we're only 18 months into this target already and we're already off track Our emissions need to be reducing They're increasing across most sectors And it's the cumulative build-up of emissions That the legislation requires us to keep an eye on because it correctly reflects the the science So again, if we look at that that big pie chart on your uh, on your right-hand side overall across farming Across forestry across land use across electricity generation across heating. We have emitted over just over 101 million tons at the end of august last year. Okay, so this is up to date That means that we have a let me just check my figures here. That means that we've got another 187 million tons that we can go So we're already off track. Let me talk to you a little bit about the numbers that we're less certain about here First of all, we're less certain about the numbers for agriculture We're less certain about the numbers for land use land use change in forestry That's because those emissions are difficult to track data. It doesn't become available from different preliminary sources Or different proxy sources at an early stage For for those sectors what we've done is that we've looked at the epa the environmental protection agency With additional measures and we've taken proxy reductions of there are prorated their reductions In emissions out to the the end of august last month But even looking at the preliminary data, it's quite clear that we are still off track for agriculture And we're still off track for land use land use change in forestry in agriculture We do need to provide different avenues for earning revenues for farmers We do need less light less livestock in Ireland. We don't need less farmers We need to give people viable options to use their land Produce different different ways of using our land different ways to earn an income and we need to do that quickly Agriculture is our major source that we've heard already the size of these bubbles by the way reflects I suppose the the size of the carbon budget that's available to each individual industry If we look at electricity and look electricity is our good news story, wasn't it? You know, we tell the world we're doing really well on offshore And we tell the world we're doing really well on onshore wind and we have Over just under 40 percent of our electricity last year came from renewables mainly onshore wind That's really good. But in terms of emissions reduction, we're not on track The power sector can emit between january 2021 and december 2025 just 40 million tons worth of emissions In 2021 we emitted 10 million tons up until august Just last month we emitted seven and a half million tons We're on track to emit about 11 and a half million tons this year for the power sector Our emissions are going in the wrong direction It's not the renewable component. It's the non renewable component We need to move away from the most polluting forms of fossil fuel particularly coal and particularly oil That's us driving up our emissions in the power sector in ireland. That's what ultimately is pushing those emissions in the wrong direction But there's a tension there between reducing our emissions and keeping the light on we're not burning coal just for the fun We have a power system that's physically strained at ireland at the moment and we need those power plants We need those oil fired generation to come in in times of system stress We've failed to build adequate gas fired generation in ireland And that's what we need to do and we need to do it quickly And people often say well, why do you need to build fossil fuel generation in ireland when you need to be moving away from it? Renewables reduce the use of fossil fuel power plant. They do not replace the need We have failed to meet that need in ireland Our analysis in ucc has shown that by building fossil fuel gas fired plant in ireland It will reduce our emissions increase our security supply and make it easier to meet our emissions reduction target We need to move away from coal We need to move away from oil because it's driving up our emissions within the power sector and in parallel We can't drop the ball on onshore and offshore wind. We need to do all these things in parallel Otherwise our emissions Will increase so it's not just about renewable targets anymore for the power sector It's about cumulative emissions And the early stages to preliminary data are showing that we're already off track for the power sector in ireland and that's worrying The other sector. Let's look at a bit more detail is transport Transport has force got a bit of a look you break in 2021 in terms of kovat But it was a drop in emissions because because of lockdowns because of kovat prevention prevention measures And that allowed emissions to reduce But preliminary data just up to august last month has shows that those emissions have rebounded with a vengeance Diesel sales are up 18 percent year-to-date on on last year sales same with petrol 13 percent So emissions are bouncing back And transport isn't just about evs, which we tend to focus a lot on and that's necessary and it's correct But it's a tiny part of the solution when you think about active ways of moving people around cycling bus lanes Infrastructure remote working All these elements will really need to provide a different cocktail of mixtures to reduce our emissions and transport Otherwise it's going to be very very hard to meet our overall emissions reductions Into the residential sector and in the and in the commercial sectors the story is equally not as good We will probably see a small reduction in residential emissions this year Not so much because of policy but because of prices Again, we are one of the most fossil fuel-reliant countries in europe The cost of that reliance from fossil fuels is the price that we're paying the high price of energy that we pay Home heating oil kerosene fuel oil will increase this year what tends to happen when we look back at the past when prices go up These things tend to be quite elastic and emissions go down It's not because of climate policy It's because of geopolitics that our emissions will reduce in the residential sector and we heard earlier about the hardship that The hardship that will that that will endure So the emissions sector I suppose in many regards the overall emissions story is not very compelling in a word We're we are not on target to meet our first legislative carbon budget in 2025 And there will be political repercussions for that And and also a wider reputational impact. Remember we tell the world we're clean. We're green and we care about the stuff But the numbers tell a different story the numbers tell a very different narrative A couple of years ago We did a piece of small piece of work for the wind energy civilization of Ireland looking at net zero story futures in 2050 And all the stuff that we spoke about today. We're going to need you know We need EVs we need hydrogen But fundamentally the most important thing that we need across society is a policy mindset that puts net zero At the core of everything At the core of decisions making at a political level at a county level at a community level all our institutions From the air grids to the crus need to put net zero at the core of all our energy of all our energy decisions Part of the research that we did for wind energy Ireland Looked at what we call the no regret or low regret options. There's things that we know we need to do in Ireland We don't have to have long meandering conversations There's things that we know that are robust that are resilient and that will provide Win-win outcomes if you will and they are saving energy through energy efficiency Electrification by essentially putting more plugs on things Remember 80 percent of the energy use in Ireland is not electricity 80 percent of the things in our lives in our communities in our society doesn't have plugs on the on things We need to increase the acceleration of electrification And finally we need to play to our greatest strength. It's our renewable resources We're not a country who is rich in fossil fuels We're not a country who's rich like like like like other countries in terms of hydro We have wind. We have great ability to produce energy. We have great Ability to save energy. That's our greatest strength. We need to play to that strength in Ireland But also Be honest and acknowledge our weaknesses We're way behind target and of all the options that are available to us as a society and our government in terms of climate change Waiting isn't one of those So finally just to finish off this post in terms of our emissions We are not on track for our emissions reduction goals in Ireland And I suppose maybe drawing alex on the the title of the of the of the conference of the the conference that we have today We need to accelerate To a level that we have never done before And in credit to Irish government, we are doing a lot of things correctly We're providing very generous grant across transport across heating But we need to bring those to a level that we've never seen before at a pace that we've never done before And we've to achieve emissions reductions that we've never ever delivered before So thank you very much for listening. Thank you Thank you so much paul. Um So so much of today's conversations have been about how we just get to that Unprecedented level and that everything needs to be done One bit that might maybe help out is hydrogen because the role of green hydrogen is Expected to play a hugely important role in the transition And last year asp had its launch its own green Atlantic initiative to repurpose a former coal fired station To into a green energy hub where lots of different technologies including green hydrogen are going to be deployed to With the capacity to power over one and a half 1.6 million homes in Ireland also last year the uk doubled the uk's hydrogen production ambition Up to 10 gw i think by 2030 So how is that panning out in the midst of their fuel crisis also where we're delighted Claire Jackson With us today the chief executive officer of hydrogen uk and one of the leading voices in hydrogen in the uk and elsewhere So you're very very welcome. We'll hand over to you Claire Well, hopefully I should be able to answer some of those questions if perhaps not all of those questions But yeah, it is absolutely fantastic to be here this afternoon. Thank you so much for the Iiea. I'm a lot of vowels there for the invitation So yeah, my name is Claire. I've been working with the energy industry on hydrogen for about the last seven years I like to tell people that I was working in hydrogen before it was cool I'm thinking about having a t-shirt with that made up on um, it's very fashionable these days We're working in the hydrogen sector But yeah, so it is um, a really really exciting topic It's never been a more exciting time to be a part of and working with hydrogen So what I'm going to sort of talk to you about today is I'm first going to talk to you about why everyone is so excited about hydrogen Um, I'm then I'm going to take you a little bit through sort of where we are globally at the moment There's been a lot of you know, keeping up with what's going on in hydrogen is a full-time job The poor chap in my team that has that as his full-time job I will be paying for his therapy for the next 10 years It's so difficult and then I'll take you through a little bit about what we've been doing in the uk and where we're sort of up to now But just before I do that a little bit about hydrogen uk We are the industry association That looks after all the sort of companies that are really excited about the role that hydrogen can play and are committed to seeing that through and Making hydrogen actually a reality rather than something that we just talk about I'm wondering whether this does this change the slides the big green button I'm I'm terrible at technology Apart from hydrogen Um, perhaps someone else could move for next slide on given that I'm in The top one. Oh, sorry. I'm pushing the bottom one. There you go. So these are our wonderful members As I said, we work sort of across the value chain Right from the guys that are deploying renewables and interested in How you produce hydrogen through to the guys that are interested in moving it around Right through to people who are developing end-use technologies So, yeah, I'm just going to start off by talking about Why everyone is very very interested in hydrogen in the uk and I would say I'm going to broadly sort of pull this down into four different categories The first is because we cannot deliver net zero without it There are huge chunks of our energy system, which you just can't electrify And I think sometimes we end up in this sort of false argument about electrification or hydrogen And the reality is that we need them both they go together like Burton Ernie like Ireland in the uk, um, you know, they're best friends and actually they support and love each other We need to be doing all of these various different low-carbon solutions as quickly as is humanly possible But there are certain areas that we need hydrogen for so these are things like heavy industry when we're making cement steel Auto manufacturing heavy-duty vehicles. So aviation maritime Those sort of big trucks that you can't put a big battery in without losing half the payload at the back end And also in the uk in particular Domestic heat is another area where hyacin can play a role. So we need it for net zero The second reason is to do with energy security Now unless you've been living under a rock for the last year You've noticed that energy security is sort of coming up the list of priorities We need to deploy more domestic renewables as quickly as is humanly possible But the challenge is you can't do that without hydrogen. So in the uk last year We spent 1.5 billion on demand side and supply side matching in terms of our grid and on curtailment costs So the more that you deploy renewables the more challenging the economics become unless you have a storage mechanism And hydrogen is that storage mechanism The third reason is to do with system resilience So in the uk we move roughly about four times more energy through our pipes as we do through our pylons You know only about 20 of our energy demand is actually currently met by Electricity now. We know that we need to do more electrification. We know that we need to strengthen and Reinforce that with that those pylons that electricity network But hyacin can play a massive role We have an 85 percent of our homes in the uk connected to the gas grid And if we can convert that gas grid to move around hydrogen rather than natural gas And that reduces pressure on that already pressurized electricity transmission network And the fourth reason is because hydrogen presents a really interesting economic opportunity Hydrogen will be worth roughly 2.5 trillion us dollars by 2050. That is a lot of jobs And those those economies that move first and the leaders rather than followers Will be the ones that get the sort of economic benefit from that So i'm going to talk you through a little bit about where we are globally at the moment So there has been a massive increase in hyacin projects We're currently at around 680 projects that represent 240 billion us dollars worth of investment You'll see that the large majority of that is still in europe So we have sort of about 76 of those projects From up until 2030 that is i'm in europe But basically most places around the world most geographies have got hyacin projects in the works And the really interesting thing is that year on year even that 2030 target of where we're aiming for In terms of production projects is going up and up and up So we're now at 26.2 megatons per annum capacity cumulative capacity by 2030 And if you look at even just the last two years you can see there the sort of 2020 line You know we're looking at you know two Two three times more production capacity that will be online by 2030 And the other interesting thing that you'll note there is the sort of split between What we sort of refer to in the hyacinth industry is green and blue So green being the electrolytic sort of coupled with either renewables or nuclear And the blue which is using carbon capture and storage technologies So we're having seen a much more Much greater proportion of that being green and renewable hyacin Than just low carbon hyacin which is interesting And the other thing that I think is also worth noting is that From the one part we're now seeing we're now reaching this point where Projects are turning from ideas on paper to actually reality real investment Real space in the ground real things that are operating But we're still at a point where only 10% of that 240 billion worth of projects have actually reached FID And I would say that in Europe it's probably even lower and in the UK 99% of our production capacity has not yet reached FID Um, so I wanted Sort of zoom in a little bit in terms of the UK now We are very very fortunate in the UK that we have I personally think some of the most exciting and world-leading projects That we have in our pipeline. I just want to talk about sort of three of them very very briefly Now so we've got um giga stack, which is a project that is in the sort of the Humber region For those of you not so good at geography. That's sort of the north northeast of of the UK And this is looking at a 100 megawatt Electrolyzer coupled with offshore wind from Earthstead's offshore wind Farm and it's going to be used initially in Philip 66 refinery to decarbonize that project there and and it's very much to do with Bringing down the cost of electrolyzers and the UK has or had the very first Gigastiga gigafactory for electrolyzers in sort of in rather in those itms And this project it's all around getting the cost down scaling up electrolyzer and production Then how could I not talk about high net when we've got ESB sponsoring this conference? That's the project that ESB are involved with in the northwest region of the UK and this is a sort of multi Sort of cluster approach So there's about 40 different organizations industries that are looking to use the hyacinth there and it's primarily a A sort of low carbon hyacinth projects as a lot of CC us involved there And it's it's whole end-to-end Project where we've got a gas network going in their hydrogen gas network and the production and all of the end users And then lastly a keby power hyacinth power station Which will be the first 100 percent hyacinth power station anywhere in the world Which is a project between equinoor and sse thermal, which is a very exciting project and That is three that I've just picked out out of the myriad of different projects that we've got here This was came from the the UK government's hydrogen investment Roadmap it's got 59 projects on it We've just sort of updated this in the last month and we've now got well over 100 projects That are that are going on across the UK. So plenty plenty to get involved in So one of the things that has stimulated this Is the the sort of world-leading policies now this sort of kicked off Last year with the UK hydrogen strategy. I hear the island doesn't have a hydrogen strategy yet. So I think you should Get one of those. They're great But it's all about providing that confidence to industry that the UK is the place to invest in hydrogen So we have a number of different sort of support schemes The most the most important one is the the hydrogen business model And this is a sort of similar cfd model to what was implemented to offshore for offshore wind Where by that sort of government support in the early stages allowed the cost of offshore wind To come down on a very steep trajectory And we are very confident that hydrogen will be able to go through that That same cost down As as as was sort of mentioned earlier, we had a five gigawatts target The energy security strategy increased that to 10 gigawatts We think that is sort of broadly roughly in the right place now As an industry we're not pushing for anything more 10 gigawatts is quite enough to try and deliver In the remaining eight years that we have But yeah, and I you know, I think We're in a very fortunate position in the UK Don't ever let me don't ever tell them that I said this but the government's actually done a really good job When it comes to hydrogen is officially my job to keep them on their toes So please don't tell them I never would tell them but they've done an absolutely fantastic job And we're very pleased that we think that these policies will make the UK one of the best places in the world To deploy hydrogen solutions, but there are still challenges that remain So long-term investor security Is a huge challenge for these very very big projects in these very nascent areas We have a certain amount of political volatility in the UK at the moment Which you may have noticed that's causing us some challenges We have a little bit of a slow legislative process that we're sort of pushing on The international competitiveness is a really interesting one as well As the sort of Two speakers ago mentioned the IRA has made the US a very very interesting place to be investing in hydrogen A lot of the companies that are developing hydrogen solutions are global international companies And they have to decide where it is that they want to invest And lastly, there is a massive challenge in terms of hydrogen is this entire energy system With production infrastructure and demand and they've all got to come forward at the same time And that's a big challenge trying to pull that all together So this is my very very last thing that I want to say these are the things that At hydrogen UK we are working on to make sure that hydrogen is ready for the next stage of its journey So making those hydrogen business models available to producers as as quickly as we possibly can is very very important We've done a lot of work in the UK around the production side of things But we also need to be looking at how do we stimulate demand for hydrogen at the same time All of these various different end-use sectors that hydrogen can play a part in are all distinctly different to each other and we need that detail thinking around end-use policies Supply and demand need to be matched. We need the infrastructure. We need hydrogen storage. We need hydrogen networks Those tech tend to have really long lead times And the sort of modeling work that we've done you sort of start to where you need to be by 2030 And you work backwards and you realize you should have started these projects about five years ago We've got some big ambitions in the UK around what we want to do in hydrogen Making sure that we have the skilled workforce to be able to deliver that is not an unsubstantial challenge And lastly hydrogen is going to touch every part of our energy system It's going to touch every part of our society and we need to bring people along on that journey with us And I think the last thing that I just want to leave you with Oh, no, this is our very detailed version Which you can find on our website around all the things the many things that we need to do in terms of hydrogen the last thing I just want to leave you with is the sort of I guess the title of this conference Accelerate and when we look at what we have to deliver in the hydrogen sector in the UK depending on whose models you like to use We roughly need to be able to build a hydrogen system that's roughly the size of our power domain today That is an absolutely monumental challenge to deliver in 30 years. So it's so important that we move fast that we bring together All of the various different actors that need to play a part here and that we work together to achieve that I feel very confident that Working together we'll be able to get there Thank you very very much Clara. I loved your upbeat assessment of the current state of UK Irish relations So maybe after you finish with hydrogen we could get you to work on the protocol For us, but thank you very very much. It was a brilliant presentation our last Speaker of the session Is Harry of a Madhavan who's the vice president of dnv and director of uk and Ireland energy systems at dnv He has you took the lead I think was just last year across all of dnv energy systems related activities across renewables power and o and g and I think today's going to look at some of those broader trends across the energy value chain and how they might impact the delivery of net zero I think you might in particular maybe even as it has happened a lot today look at the energy security situation In Europe and lots of other questions. So without further ado, hand me the floor is yours And it's the big it's a big green one Afternoon and thank you for those kind words. Um, this is a lovely stage. So I'm going to go mobile Um, so I've been in the energy industry now for over 30 years and the trilemma when I started was reliability affordability Sustainability, but I think you've heard from all of today's speakers Energy security energy independence and energy transition is the trilemma today Um, many of us in the room are in the energy sector And it's our day job, but I just want to give a quick shout out to the logo on my bottom left hand side of the slide or bottom right hand It's world mental health day and I think the session before lunch really highlighted the impact Of the energy prices and the sleepless nights. They're going to be happening due to the energy crisis Energy transition, I think our speakers today have really highlighted. It's not one transition Yeah, there's an energy system. We need to transition There's a consumer transition We absolutely have to take the consumers with us. There's a jobs transition And then there's a whole host of mini transitions below that So dmv has its fingers in many many pies from shipping to oil and gas to offshore wind onshore wind power grids gas grids Supply chains and every year we publish an energy transition outlook We're owned by an independent Norwegian foundation and we publish An energy outlook and I'd like to just take you through some of the highlights of that and the starting point Is why the title of this conference is accelerate Yeah, the world is in trouble and in reality we talk about carbon budgets, but those carbon budgets are disappearing Yeah, 1.5 degrees gone by the end of the decade two degrees Gone by 2050-2053 and we're well on the way to 2.3 degrees The pandemic did give us a blip Yeah, but it also gave us peak oil. We don't believe Oil production will ever be higher than 2019 Okay, so that gives an incredibly challenging backdrop But there is an energy transition happening Yeah, and on this slide you'll see how electricity is going from 19 percent of today's Energy system to 38 percent and you've heard a lot about electrification. Yeah, and But when you look at the energy system today's energy system is 20 percent Non-fossil 80 percent fossil even by 2050 that picture has only changed To 55 percent non-fossil 46 percent fossil fuels and that's Why we need to accelerate? But within this is an incredibly positive story of electrification Which island has played a fantastic part and so has the uk and that's in terms of where does this electricity come from? Yeah, and 70 percent of this electricity has come from renewables Yeah, and largely driven by onshore wind solar and offshore wind and you see actually of that 70 percent Half is coming from fixed and floating Um offshore and onshore wind and half is coming from solar PV Okay, now we have to do so much more if we're going to accelerate But it isn't that easy and there are challenges even in this forecast to deliver a seven fold increase in offshore wind Yeah, because that's what this is based on but there are challenges in scaling up to meet our ambitions You've heard quite a lot today about policy Yeah, we need those goals and targets for gigawatts. Yeah, we need a transparent regulatory regime In which some of the pricing mechanisms and some of the taxes and some of the other Discussion points are a little bit uncertain and not clearly defined and then we absolutely need to speed up Permitting and construction times Yeah, when I spoke at cop 26 on offshore wind the average time it was taking us around the world Was five to seven years to approve a wind farm It'll be 2023 next year. It'll be 2030 when we bring those fields online clearly too late A supply chain Yeah, and a supply chain that's already creaking today if you talk to a lot of the developers We're struggling with today's supply chain. Let alone the one that is going to deliver The supply chain for a seven fold increase in offshore wind Yeah, and you've seen commitments to gigawatts of offshore wind this year and even just last week european union 165 gigawatts The ira at least 30 gigawatts out in the far east and the emerging countries You're looking at 80 to 100 gigawatts in the uk would like to go from 10 gigawatts to 40 gigawatts That's just gigawatts and gigawatts of offshore wind and today's supply chain is really struggling And today's manufacturers aren't making huge amounts of margin Yeah, so we're going to need more supply chains, perhaps one in europe and police two In the far east and emerging markets So we're going to have to address that if we really want to accelerate The grid I'll come back to the grid and I always feel nervous talking about electricity grid with when esp understand that so well And then turbine infrastructure and de-risking offshore projects and we've heard a little bit about de-risking today And I see it in two very different buckets de-risking one is if we're going to have that scaling of offshore wind Yeah, you're going to need all the help we can get And in dnv because we've got an oil and gas industry anis shipping We think there's some lessons learned here to speed up these offshore projects and de-risking But you're also going to have to look at that economic model to bring more of these online Okay, and so that's in offshore wind some of those challenges In solar there are also challenges and I was wondering how to introduce the first two boxes And you're going to smile because I think we had a speaker this morning that really eloquently showed you lots of nice graphics About why the esg in the supply chain of solar panels and batteries is incredibly challenging Yeah, the transparency is not there and the sustainability is not there and when you link it to the logistics Of the countries that you're having to access the materials and components from Russia, Ukraine, Africa This is not a straightforward process and again today Today's supply chain in solar is struggling to keep up with demand And solar is going to have an even bigger increase than offshore wind Yeah, so investment into the supply chains is going to be absolutely crucial to delivering this acceleration And yes the grid again hooking all of this up, but I'll come back to that And then finally pricing mechanisms One of the incredibly challenging things about doing renewables projects are the auctions Yeah, and yes, we need a fair price and we absolutely need to drive costs down and we need competition But manufacturers will need to make some money And if you actually go and look at the amount of money manufacturing is making in renewables It's not massive margins Yeah, so we're going to have to address how and not have a race to the bottom Because that then puts the pressure on the whole esg and logistics buckets Okay, so that's solar and that's offshore wind If they're like the gate to the energy transition Then the power grid is the key We can produce lots of lovely renewables electrons, but if we can't move them We're going to have a lot a lot of difficulty and the grid is absolutely crucial to that But it's going to go through a massive transition Yeah, we're in a highly centralized grid at the moment And you heard some of this morning speakers talk about it's centralized and we make supply over here when we move it Through a divergent network to lots of consumers, but that highly centralized network is going to change Yeah, renewables is a highly It can swing production can really swing by as much as 50 percent Yeah, and if you're going to have swings in production of 50 percent of your electricity You need a grid that is smart and flexible and that can cope with that And you're going to need some investments to back that up Most grids around the world are fairly aging infrastructure Yeah, and there's a lot of resistance and our energy transition outlook will need a doubling of worldwide Grid capacity to bring all of that renewables on and that's going to require investment investment in complexity And in renewing the aging equipment, but most importantly of all We're going to have to carry the public again with us Because every time you try to do anything onshore That involves land planning and building you'll get a lot of resistance policy It's a real challenge and in the uk I see a lot of off-gem and bays and just trying To balance the role of looking after the consumer With regulation and promoting innovation Is not easy And sometimes I think the tasks that sometimes government have to balance all of these things are really underestimated and perhaps today We really understand some of the steps that have been done And it was interesting that claire did give a big shout out to the uk government for using CFD mechanisms for not just offshore wind but also for hydrogen Okay, so it's really important that policy is supporting those industries that need to take off And then finally collaboration Absolutely no country can entirely electrify what it is doing without looking for resilience and support from its partners So you will need collaboration whether it's with the public or whether it's your it's with your neighbors because that's the only way to truly build resilience and then the key key part which I think Came up this morning that dita referred to is how do you address storage as you increase your renewables amount in your energy mix So that volatility of supply is going to vary and therefore the resilience becomes Absolutely crucial and storage will play an absolutely pivotal plant On my next slide. I have to say we are fully paid up members d and v of claire's organization I'm not sure I've had a hydrogen t-shirt as long as claire But in 2018 d and v built a row of houses together with national grid Cadent and scotia gas networks and we now have A repurposed micro grid taking all pipelines and equipment that have been used putting it out of spade atom test site and studying how a hydrogen network from a repurposed grid will work and supply into some houses and homes So there is no net zero without hydrogen. So absolutely electrification is the main game for the energy transition But it cannot address everything and to some degree My next slide is somewhat redundant as claire did a pretty good job on explaining it But in terms of net zero We need hydrogen both for those hard to obey sectors, but there's an also an element of balancing an energy system Yeah, and that addressing Intermittency a gas molecule is easier to store And therefore you want an energy system and I think there was a reference the minister made this morning to the UK government and how successful they have been Yes, because the massive build out of 10 gigawatts of offshore wind was supported by gas Now clearly going forward if we're going to build up that renewables picture and decrease natural gas That we're going to have a need for something to balance So both for the hard to obey sectors and for balancing the energy system hydrogen really has an important play to role Important role to play and it's absolutely crucial to meeting net zero targets because we cannot electrify everything It will be largely around manufacturing As claire referred to but also there is heavy transport certainly also involving shipping And it will undoubtedly start off blue Why because you'll use all of your electrification coming from renewables to increase your electricity supply Yeah, you don't want to make hydrogen initially You'll have to look at blue hydrogen to create that blue economy and make to create that hydrogen economy and get it moving and that's obviously taking Gas and using ccs and steam reforming to make hydrogen Okay over time as you build out the renewables Yeah, so you can start to build out the green hydrogen story and eventually and in our forecast we show by 2050 One third coming from pure renewables connected Into hydrogen to create hydrogen a third coming from the grid and a third coming from natural gas and ccs And then finally the economics of hydrogen Yeah, and both claire and I are big fans of hydrogen and we were chatting beforehand, but it has its limitations Yeah, hydrogen is not an energy vector. You would choose by choice Yeah, it's relatively expensive and it's not massively efficient to use But it's the only alternative we have for reaching net zero And that's very very important But its cost means that largely you'll look at within countries and between countries And not intercontinental although shipping is likely to be based on ammonia That's just a slide to give you an idea of the scale hydrogen's pretty tiny today Even by 2030 only 0.5 percent of global energy demand and by 2050 we're forecasting 5 percent And you can see various different sectors on that to meet net zero you'll need three times this amount of hydrogen So you really do need to create a hydrogen economy if we're going to make net zero Right just in terms of wrapping up A transition is Absolutely critical and no country can get left behind and this is one of the challenges of the energy transition Is a lot of focus on us uk europe and some places in the far east But you've got to take the whole world with you. Otherwise, we don't get a just transition as we discussed this morning Yeah, don't overlook the power grids. Yeah, and obviously being at an event sponsored by esp I know you're not okay, and really the power grid is crucial to moving those renewables electrons through the system Policy needs to keep up and it's not easy juggling all the parameters that government and regulators Have to balance and then finally it's also about whole system And we will need new energy vectors to get us to net zero And just finally wrapping up remember that path that we're currently showing you with all that great renewables and hydrogen Takes you to 2.3 degrees That's still way off 1.5 degrees Yeah, for 1.5 degrees it is technically feasible But it will absolutely require even more political will than we currently have For a massive buildout of renewables that we can already see electrification and hydrogen We need even more than that to be able to deliver net zero Okay, and some regions and some countries will have to go early So some countries will need to be net zero 20 40 20 45 because there'll be some that will be 20 60 Yeah, so it's not about everyone going to 2050 because that's not fair Yes, we need renewables electrification. Yes, we need hydrogen bio energy But we will also need for net zero ccs and direct air capture, which you've heard a little bit about today. Okay, but above all Your accelerate banner is completely correct We need massive action to do even more than we're currently doing in the energy transition And we're struggling to meet the current ambitions that most governments have set Thank you very much. Unfortunately timing-wise our next outlook is actually coming on Thursday So I've had to use last year's results because it's heavily embargoed when you work for a large company They won't allow you to give even a sneak results to you guys today So our next transition is being published on Thursday And then we're doing a UK only one for the first time in December and you'll find all the material at our dnv.com site Thank you very much All right, thanks very much Paul. I just recently Finance Minister Pascal Dunahue was talking about in light of the recent revised CSO statistics that We're going to need billions just to run to stand still because Population increases are going to be ahead of time and just listen to what Harry is talking about how Some countries in some regions are going to go earlier. How are we going to manage that increased demand? Or just the increased demand going forward, but even just in Particularly this area with population. How are we going to meet the targets by 2025 or even further down the line if we're already struggling midterm? Yeah, look, it's it's incredibly challenging, isn't it? You know, but there is it's important to distinguish between what's an investment and what's a cost Investment is something that permeates throughout society and we all benefit from it And it's something that we need to do We often forget actually that when it comes to climate action that there's a cost to doing nothing as well It costs a lot of money just to run the system at the current level of emissions. It costs about Just under 10 percent of our GDP. So it's absolutely massive So you you often hear these arguments that well, it's too costly for climate action because it's going to cost billions But actually doing nothing costs billions as well And to give a sense of context the analysis that we've done in ucc to understand the investment that we need to make And again, that investment has a benefit to broader societies not just about bringing electrons in people's houses It's about well-being. It's about health. It's about broader societal issues The extra additional investment that Ireland needs to make is about two percent of GDP in the uk It's probably around one and a half to To one percent of GDP but Ireland is the late starter So the additional investment that we make that we need to do in Ireland To have to meet our net zero targets to move Completely away from fossil fuels to have a healthier society to have you know, lots of benefits in society That additional investment is two percent of all the GDP all the money that flows to our economy You know anything back you know, we're in a wonderful historic building here at the moment decisions were made in here Back in the early 20s, maybe 30s about ardent Russia to build our name We have when we fire this many times in the media recently at its time The investment in ardent Russia represented 25 percent of all the money that flew that went through the Irish economy at its time So yes, we have to invest It's a significant amount of money But it's not an unmanageable amount of money And if that investment is made in smart places serving people serving communities and serving families That's a really really good enduring investment that we log benefit from I'm just picking up on Brenda's point Paul from earlier on. Do you think that there is a way to ring fence? To create green tariffs for the those who are most vulnerable for those who are most hit by fuel poverty or is that to Is that is that in fact You know changing the market I think a lot of that stuff is happening already. We're in the market in Ireland's we have a new res auction scheme in Ireland For example, that's returning about 300 million back to the market this year So for the first time ever actually in Ireland the public service obligation will be negative We're all getting 100 euros or so maybe 140 euros back into our bill I hear a lot on the media at the moment around windfall tax and windfall profits But the political expectation I think is larger than the evidence is there to support it When you look at the numbers that supply companies have published in the public domain We're not talking about excessive profits many of the companies have posted profits that have been lower than last year So I think the the the political expectation Is is is not is not matched by the evidence there to support it And we need to be careful about that because if we're telling the public look there's billions and out there that we're not getting That's not actually true. There's no doubt. I think that's smaller suppliers particularly on the generation side only Like me maybe renewable suppliers Will be earning excess profits this year But on the wider evidence like me to manage the expectation when delivering to the public because From what we've seen already it's just the numbers aren't there to support that narrative Claire what about managing expectations harry said hydrogen wouldn't be the first source of choice But that we need it going forward considering you're a way ahead in the hydrogen journey Then we are um, how do you manage public expectations or the narrative Around hydrogen and does it work in all sectors or as you say it's a Sort of the infrastructure is a little bit complicated and needs investment there as well Um, so I mean harry's absolutely right hydrogen is not going to be the biggest energy vector. Um electrification is still our primary um decarbonisation pathway that we have open to us, but the realities you need a mixed approach and There's parts of the energy system where electrification will play The vast majority if not all of the role and there'll be other parts where hydrogen will play a significant role in a much bigger role than electrification The challenge sometimes is is in those areas where There will be a sort of mixture of different technologies And how do you then communicate that with the the public? And I think as I said, I think it's really important that we are starting that conversation early Because these are technologies that are going to be in People's homes. They're going to be driving. They're going to be sitting on them. They're going to be seeing them And bringing people along on that journey is is hugely important And I think I mean one of the things that's actually just really struck me today Is you know In in within the sector, we tend to live be a little bit nerdy We're very good at talking about technology Which doesn't always necessarily translate to the way that we talk to people about it And even just seeing the the way that the arts have been integrated Into this conference today. It's a different way of communicating with people I think we have to be creative around the ways that we're having these sorts of conversations And particularly around who's also owning those conversations with the public. So It's yeah, it's it's it's a really interesting one around how we communicate and how we talk about Hygiene and all of these various different technologies Unfortunately, we're in couldn't join us for the q&a and I suppose our if I asked you Out of context, what do you think of the IRA? It would be strange But given that the act that Varun was talking about was a lot about them enabling technologies So on the demand side, what are you seeing that could be Breakthrough technologies that are going to help that side because I know obviously you spoke a lot on the supply side But what are you seeing in that area that could it's really going to help accelerate that change? Demand side is really hard There's been a lot more focus on supply side because in some ways it's easier To get your system boundaries there and move on the demand side I think we're actually lagging even in the uk in in the use of innovation in the use of models to change The demand side you've got businesses and you've got consumers Yeah, and we've just been discussing, you know, the worst-case scenario that national grid put out last week Involves some sort of rolling blackout. Well, that that's not the certainty that businesses and consumers want So you've got to be looking at mechanisms in which you can spread demand And I think the european union has come out with some of its suggestions We're asking all of its member states to look at efficiency To look at can you move your demand for different periods during the day and looking at resilience? But the consumer will have to play the bigger role on demand side management And that's tough and what i've seen in the uk moving the consumer expectations and sentiment is really really tough Do you think there's a kind of a strange juxtaposition because everyone is so aware of climate now Is it just kind of make us chase but not just yet or is it just because it's not Real in people's lives it has to be the success of the last You know two decades in the uk backing out coal using renewables to 10 gigawatts using gas Was almost painless for the consumer. They almost didn't notice What was going on because as far as they're concerned the electricity still arrived the next transition with the electrification of demand EVs heat pumps the change in the variability of supply as well, which is you know Real challenge for resilience requires us to take the consumer in and from what i've seen working with grid companies in the uk We're not doing a good enough job and someone said it this morning of the narrative I think we're good in energy at talking to each other and explaining why we need to do the energy transition I don't think we've done a very good job of speaking to joe public absolutely just the public narratives Well, this conversation is certainly helping and i'm going to just to thank all of our speakers paul claire harry and course baron earlier And you're going to your Last coffee break if you can be back here in 10 minutes for the rest of our session. Thanks a million