 This is St. Tech Hawaii, Community Matters. Good afternoon. We're here for all about leadership, a show where we examine people who've really gotten insights from their work in technology, business, hospitality. We have a guest today, Eric Heenan, whom I've known for many, many years, and we will talk about that. He's back in Hawaii, and I think that many CEOs of the Hawaii Business Magazine 250 firms would really find his experiences and insights into leadership quite exciting and interesting. And we have Eric beside me, and we're going to say welcome to the show, Eric. Thanks, Ray. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be here and good to see you again. Yes, and we go way back, but tell me, you were born and raised where? I was born on the mainland in upstate New York, but we moved here when I was about a year old. So I was raised out in Hawaii, Kai, and then moved to town, I think when I was about eight years old. Okay, okay. And you went to college on the mainland? Yes, I went to UCLA where I was a Japanese major, and I also spent one year abroad in Nagoya, studying up on Japanese. Now, and was it Nanzan? Nanzan, yes. That's quite famous for a great school for teaching Japanese. I wish I went there. But let's look at your kind of lifelong interest in Japanese, language, culture. Where did it begin? Where can you say, wow, that's where I kind of it triggered my interest and that carried me through my life. When did that happen? Well, so I think just growing up in Hawaii, there are many Japanese Americans here, obviously. My friends growing up, you know, many of them had really nice looking bentos, so I was always interested in the food aspect of Japanese culture. Then probably in the late 80s, early 90s, when all the Japanese, it was the bubble period, and they started buying up all the expensive real estate in town. And then I just thought back then, hey, why not study the language and see if I can become some kind of businessman and be a connection between Japan. So you were looking ahead even back in the 80s. I was, a little bit. And where did you start studying Japanese first? Right. So first started at Iolani in seventh grade, and luckily we had two school trips to Japan, I think after my freshman year and after my junior year. And Japanese is a pretty tough language, especially the reading and writing. And I was about a C student before those two school trips. And then once I came back from those school trips, I was really motivated. And after that, I became a better student and really kind of committed myself to studying the language. That's fantastic. Now, you were attracted, of course, to the language to communicate and talk to each other. What are the things about Japan and the culture that said, wow, that's really exciting. I want to delve more into that. Sure. Well, you know, my impression of Japan back then was the big cities. And so I think the first time we went out to the countryside and I saw how beautiful a place it was. I was really blown away and it just totally surprised me. You know, whether it was the beaches or a Kyoto with all the temples, that fascinated me. And the second thing was going around towns, wherever it was in Japan. And when we told people we were from Hawaii, they got really, really excited. And I thought that was quite strange. And so I saw their love affair with Hawaii way back then. And, you know, it just felt really warm and welcoming. And so I thought, hey, why not go back there? That's fantastic. You know, even today, there's probably more than 600 or 700,000 people in Japan who study the Hula and Hawaiian music. Right. So there's an extensive community and, of course, the linkages with Hawaii go before the war and throughout recent history. But you were in Nagoya for about, what, six months? About ten months. Ten months, wow. Now Nagoya also has a distinct accent. Not quite Kansai, not quite Tokyo, but you didn't adopt the accent at all. I did not, but my homestay father, he had quite a, you know, pronounced accent. Still has it. And now after graduating from UCLA, what did you do? Yeah. So I went straight back actually to Japan with a joint venture of a retail supermarket company. And so this was a Japanese firm with a Hong Kong-based British firm. And they were opening this retail chain. I had worked there part-time during college, one of the summers there. And, you know, it was quite difficult to get a job, say, with Toyota or Sony from Los Angeles. But this company was kind enough to, you know, sponsor my visa and bring me back to Japan. So you had some time, a period, where you were actually working in an all-Japanese language office. Am I correct? That's correct. What was that like? Yeah, it was fascinating. So to be clear, I wasn't in the office. I was actually in the supermarket. Oh, wow. And so, yeah, so a lot of people were surprised. They said, oh, you went to UCLA. But that was probably the best thing that could have happened to me, because I really learned a lot about, you know, the daily lives of Japanese people, you know, how they shop, how they interact with each other. And, you know, I think within six months, my Japanese was pretty decent. It's potential. Yeah, yeah. So you went to trenches. I was right in the trenches. Directly at the point of sale almost, working with Japanese consumers in a supermarket setting. Yes. And that's unbelievable for an immersion of a great in-depth experience. Right. And what happened after that? And I know we're leading into how you ended up in Japan for many years. Right. So if you can give a shortcut, what events propelled you to eventually live in Japan for a period of time? Yeah, sure. Well, so I had some friends working in Tokyo. And so my goal, you know, I was kind of slaving away at the supermarket an hour north of Tokyo. And I really wanted to, you know, move down to Tokyo and work for one of these big global companies. And through a Hawaii connection, who was, I think, working at Microsoft or one of those companies, he got me a job in IT as an entry-level salesperson. I had no technical background, but my only skill was that I could speak Japanese. Right, right, right. And that sort of launched me on to a sales career in the technology space. And how many years cumulative did you spend in Tokyo? In Tokyo, total almost 20 years, but in technology sales about 15. Wow. Yeah. Of course, in Japan, you know, that I lived and worked in Japan for 20 years also and was in the tech area, we call that segment the Gaishike, companies who are from abroad. And of course, they all have problems. They are selling into the Japanese market through Japanese corporations or to Japanese consumers. Any takeaways from your, you know, experiences working with Gaishike, trying to get them to sell to Japanese companies or consumers because of your unique ability to see both sides or talk to both sides where many Gaishike, big wigs do not speak Japanese. Anything, any insights there? Right. So the first big company I worked at was Cisco Systems, and I think they did it the traditional way in terms of partnering with large Japanese companies. And so all of these Japanese distributors, they get very nervous when an American or European manufacturer comes to town because they think they're going to take all of their business. And Japanese consumers, whether it's Sony or Mazda, those big companies, they also want to, they would prefer to buy through the Japanese distributor rather than directly from a Cisco or Oracle. And so, you know, what I learned from Cisco was in the early days, a lot of the partners and clients were both very, you know, just skeptical and hesitant to deal with us because they thought we were trying to do it the American way. Well, in fact, they were doing it, you know, the normal Japanese way was to build up a channel business. And that was very smart. And I think I joined that company when they had maybe 200 people and probably two years later they had a thousand people. So the growth in, you know, business was tremendous. Now, I also did sales in Japan and marketing. And one of the things I learned, maybe you can add to this, is that many time Japanese companies would buy not on price, but on relationship. Is that true? That's very true. Yeah, so one of our biggest partners in Japan, they're called NetOne Systems. And it took me, you know, honestly, it took me almost two years to forge that relationship with their sales team. And they had connections with all these large customers. So I wanted to get on their good side and expand my business. And, you know, it's like the old saying with Japanese, you have to kind of take them to dinner and buy them a few beers or sakis. And it took literally two years. And once I, you know, I think we went to a nice dinner and had some drinks. From that point on, I was accepted and I was their kind of right-hand man. But it took a long time. It was very frustrating. But once they signed up and they saw you as a trusted supplier that relationship flourished and continued. It did, yes. And, you know, they saw that, one, I wasn't going to go back to the States anytime soon, that I was really committed to Japan, that I spoke Japanese. It is difficult, say, when it's a more senior person, an ex-pat who comes in, they don't speak any Japanese. Their contract is probably for two years maximum. So the Japanese, you know, they don't want to commit too much of their time knowing that person's probably going to be gone in a year or two. Now, what did you like working in a Japanese office? And I have another question after that. What did you not like? What did I like? You know, the teamwork was really amazing there. I think they take orders very well. Like, there's a lot less conflict there. But they really work together to get the job done. And they don't complain a lot. They just kind of do it. You're talking about teamwork. We're trying to foster even Google, I think, prizes, values, collaboration over tech sometimes, as you know. But that's really true. Is that from the culture, Japanese culture? Or is it through education? Where does that come from for Japanese employees? I think it starts in the school system where everything is about the team rather than the individual. You know, whether it's a Japanese baseball or a softball or volleyball, they're really strong, I think, those team sports. And it carries on throughout college and then when they get to the workforce. You know, often these big companies, they will hire hundreds or thousands of new college grads. And so from their first moment in the office, they're kind of together with their new family, who they're supposed to be working together for the next maybe 10, 20, 30 years. And of course, we were very near that time, April 1st. Right. Yes. They all come in and you're correct that they're giving, I don't want to say the word indoctrination, but a clear invitation to join the organization. And there's a much longer training period in Japanese companies compared to almost none. Right. You have companies. And I think that's a different kind of molding development of employees. Right. But my second question, what did you not like? Right. I think there is some still discrimination against foreigners. I certainly thought there was a ceiling on how high I could go in the organization. And that was one of the reasons why I went back to business school, because I was doing pretty well in sales, but there was no sign of making that next jump, whether it's a manager or whatnot. That's probably my number one take on that. Now you went to MBA program at Vanderbilt. That's correct. Yes. So what made you go there? Right. And what are the takeaways you learned there that you brought back to Japan? Sure. So I chose Nashville because I didn't want to go to New York or San Francisco. I didn't want to go to another huge city. Right, right, right. I wanted a more, a little bit smaller place. Hang out there for a while. Yeah. So I was looking at kind of a little bit smaller schools. I was really torn between there and North Carolina. And it just, when I had a campus visit to Nashville, and it was just a really warm environment, I kind of, I like the South. It reminds me of home a bit. Oh, right. Yeah, they're very friendly and just very warm people. We'll get back to that. Okay. I want to hear more about your great experiences in the South and those takeaways for global business. And this is Ray Tuchiyama, and we'll be back in a few minutes. Right. This is Think Tech Hawaii, raising public awareness. Foundation for a better life. This guy looks familiar. He calls himself the Ultra Fan, but that doesn't explain all this. Why? He planned this party, planned the snacks, even planned to coordinate colored shirts, but he didn't plan to have a good time. Go! Now you wouldn't do this in your own house, so don't do it in your team's house. Know your limits and plan ahead so that everyone can have a good time. We're back to all about leadership with our guest Eric Heenan of Alakai Search, the president and founder. He's been talking to us about his very vibrant, in-depth experiences in Japan, and now we're in the South where he goes to get an advanced business degree, and tell me a little bit more about Vanderbilt. Right. So Vanderbilt was a really fascinating school, a smaller school. I really enjoyed the city there. One of the factors also I went there was Nissan had moved their global headquarters from Los Angeles to Nashville, probably for tax reasons. So my dream was to get a job with Nissan after graduation. Unfortunately it didn't turn out that way, but that was my intention to go work for Nissan, work in Nashville for two years, then get sent back to Tokyo as an expat. It didn't turn out that way. But it was a good plan. I had a plan. But it's interesting you see that because Bill Haggerty, the current ambassador to Japan, is from Tennessee. Yes, he is. He was very much part of the attracting more Japanese investment to Tennessee, and Nissan of course came to Smyrna first off, and now they're all over the place. And in Nashville, and all the cadets, vendors, all the suppliers, and that's why Nashville has suddenly blossomed with Japanese restaurants. Because of that. So you go back to Japan after Vanderbilt, and then what did you do there? So initially I was working with Apple in marketing, and that was a great experience. It was the launch of the iPhone, so I was actually in Cupertino for that, and learned some marketing tricks from Steve Jobs, and it was a good experience. I was still looking, I guess to do something different, maybe in the startup world. And so after Apple, I teamed up with a couple of close friends of mine who were career recruiters. And I was a career sales person, and I thought, why not go into business with them since I have connections in the technology sector. And that was the next two years I spent working in a startup recruiting. And that, of course, would make you even more, I guess, in-depth in the business world, adding the IT and then recruiting leadership kind of all together. Tell me about the world of recruiting in Japan. And now you're recruiting mostly, I would think, for Gaishike, for multinationals in Japan. Correct, yes. And what kind of roles and what kind of skills were you looking for at that point? At that point, so we were hiring mainly for salespeople, also senior-level consultants for candidates from, say, Accenture and those types of companies, and also, you know, senior technical people, maybe it was some marketing directors or those types of candidates. Where did it come from? Did it come globally? The US, Ireland, Australia, UK, Canada? Where did it come from? 99% of them would be bilingual Japanese. So very few foreigner candidates. And the Japanese, how did they become bilingual? What kind of skill sets did they acquire through Japanese education? And from then, what happened? So some of them would spend a year or two in college in the States or in Canada. And then some of them, just through working at a foreign company, would pick up the language. I think there were a few that could pick up English just on their own, but those were very, I think, rare cases. That's really rare. Yeah. So the Gaishikei in Japan want, of course, individuals who could really interact and communicate with a Japanese customer, plus pick up the phone and call Boston and New York or San Francisco and interact with the home headquarters. And those are the very basic skill sets they were looking for. Yes, exactly. So in this world of recruiting, what did you learn about Japanese themselves and the companies and the leadership of these companies? Any takeaways of that world? Sure. They have various techniques on their interviews and their interview processes. I think Amazon, I can't tell you exactly what they used to do, but they had some very unique ways of interviewing candidates. They were known for being very tough, but also they would get the best candidates. Interesting. There are other companies that were more traditional and it might take a much longer time to bring in candidates. But yeah, just in terms of getting talent, it's so, so competitive there because any single tech company that's in Silicon Valley also has a presence normally in Tokyo. There's, you know, 10 million plus candidates. So they can all, you know, many of them are on the market, which changes maybe 10 years ago. Engineers specifically were not changing jobs. It was the salespeople who wanted more commission and they would change. But nowadays, the engineers have caught on that if they go from one hot startup to another, they can get more stock options and an increase in salary. So that's a dramatic change in the recruiting world in Japan. I used to work for Google, of course. Google had a very, very complex set of questions that's in their own category. So you came back to Hawaii. When did you come back? We came back last August. And why? Why now? You know, Olympics is coming up, 2020, a lot of hiring going on in Tokyo. Why that time of your life to return to Hawaii? Yeah, so it's a good question. A combination of three things. The first being I was there for 20 years and so I'd always wanted to come home probably from about 10 years ago. The second, my parents are, you know, getting a bit older. Right, of course. And, you know, I really wanted to be closer to them and be able to support them, you know, if they have some health issues. And third, we have a son who just turned five in December. And so the timing was really ideal, you know, to get him immersed in, you know, English speaking, you know, school and get his language up. And all those family and personal reasons are the best of reasons to come back to Hawaii. But the next question is, you must be coming back with all kinds of insights to Hawaii Business Magazine 250 CEOs here in Hawaii, the Hawaiian market, which is not Tokyo. It's 1.2 million people living here. That's like one ward. Shibuya Ward in Shinjuku in Tokyo. And there aren't that many global things happening in Hawaii, not as much as in Tokyo, Shanghai, Beijing and so forth. But this is still a vibrant economy here. And people are dealing with ways to grow, ways to lead organizations. What do you bring? If you could meet Mr. CEO of Hawaii Business 250, what would you tell me what you're bringing to search and leadership in Hawaii? Yeah, sure. Well, I mean, the first thing, which is obvious, because I've been in Asia for 20 years, so I have a network of talent and a candidate pool, which I think is much different than the other recruiters in town. So I think a lot of recruiters, they have a great network here. They probably have a very strong network on the mainland. I'm hoping to get there one day. But what I have today is a large network in Asia. And a lot of these, there's two types of candidates. One, there's many Hawaii locals working in Asia, like myself. And there's the other, it might be a British person. It might be someone from China. But I think there are cultural symmetry between, say, people who can survive in Hong Kong or Tokyo and then coming to Hawaii versus that candidate who maybe comes from Chicago or Wisconsin. And so I'm advising some of these CEOs, hey, take a look at senior level candidates or mid-level candidates from Asia, because they can probably, I think their stick rate in Hawaii would be a little bit higher. When you say stick rate, we're all familiar with people from the mainland that come here and they think they're on vacation and return to the mainland two years later, or even less. And you're referring to people who have survived in ethnically diverse communities in Tokyo or Shanghai or Hong Kong or Singapore. And they're used to many languages, religions, cultures, food, and so forth. And how people think are quite different than in Chicago and New York. Are those the points that you want to kind of present to people, CEOs here? That's correct. These are the outliers, right? These are the people that they were probably brought up halfway around the world, but for some reason they decided to hang out in Tokyo or Hong Kong for 15 years. And they got married there, they had kids there. Because of the geographic proximity to Hawaii, a lot of these candidates have been to Hawaii many times. A lot of them own property here. So I had a candidate from Singapore who came in for some interviews and he has property here. I have numerous other candidates that are in the same situation. So I think their willingness to actually to thrive here and stay here is pretty good. And would you say that if you place these people in these organizations, in Hawaii, local organizations, what effect do you think will change business in Hawaii? That you're becoming like a change agent in a kind of secretive way, bringing people from the outside, but still people who can fit in to organizations and to culture in Hawaii. How do you see business changing, you think, because of what you do? Well, I just think Hawaii has always been a great place, very open to outside talent. My father's an example and I think it doesn't, we don't care where the person's from as long as they're willing to contribute to the team and hopefully stay. That's been the big issue I think for a lot of people is they come, they might make a contribution, but then they take off after a year or two. And so I really want to focus on people that are committed to staying long-term. It doesn't work out unfortunately. And these people, they can bring, I think, a fresh perspective to businesses. Maybe they come from even a different industry, but somebody from banking doesn't necessarily mean they can't work in another industry. They bring a new perspective on things. Well, I think that's fantastic. I think what you're doing is, I think, globalizing Hawaii. We always talk about Hawaii as a bridge to Asia. Now you're doing something, bringing people from Asia and to really educate and train people locally who may be able to take on global and APAC kind of marketing and skills in the future. That's fantastic. Eric, we are running out of time. That one quickly. It went quickly, but it was really great. And I hope you can join us in the future to give us more insights as you kind of evolve and succeed in this market. What you've learned, because in my case, you can go home again, but it's different. Hawaii is different. It itself has evolved in many ways. This is Ray Tuchiyama, all of our leadership. And we thank you for your viewing of this segment. And we'll see you next time. Thank you.