 the acceleration of value now with the clouds. The cloud now is created. It's amazing and you look at what startups have created in the past five years because the base on which they can build is so much bigger, right? And it's interesting, you know, we don't talk about much about open source anymore and most people don't, but in fact, it's still the infrastructure and the base and it drives all of that. It's not the end goal, which is I think a little bit of the difference between 15 years ago and today. Today the goal is really what is the application? Where are we delivering value to the end user? What are we creating, right? And open source is a great way to do that, but it isn't open source leading. It's the what value are we creating that leads and open source is a great methodology, capability to use to create that. And that's just evolution though. Is that what you're saying? Yes, yes. It's a trajectory of growth. Yes. This is kind of went from, kind of preserve this to the moonshot to actually being on the moon, if you will. So now what's next? I mean, what's the right formula? I mean, a lot of people are having this debate and a lot of the older folks, our age who have experience have been are trying to mentor a younger generation to have that right ethos. What is that right ethos in your opinion right now for if you could talk to all the young folks out there right now and say, hey, if you want to continue the greatness of open source. Right. This is the following ethos. What would be that ethos? Ethos is an ethos of transparency, of cooperation, and really understanding the difference between what value you're creating that's a differentiator versus what is common and shared in infrastructure. And this is one of the biggest challenge I see in companies or young entrepreneurs in the space. Sometimes it's a tendency to hold on to everything. Older companies do it as well. It's, you know, you think a piece is your value when in fact it's commoditized. And you have to very quickly get out of the commodity business. Let's build that open source. Let's cooperate and let's let go of that and do it in a shared way and focus on creating the things that have value. So know what's common, know what's differentiated. Know what's your value, what's differentiated and be willing to let that move over time. Because what happens is over time, more moves into that common commodity space and you have to be constantly moving up and innovating. And sometimes it's very hard to let go of something you've built that has become commoditized. So that's also the perception issue. So self-awareness becomes a really important dynamic. Yes. And this is why you see companies that have been around for a long time begin to get commoditized because they haven't realized something they built in the past has now moved on. And it's their turn to move up. So a good proactive company, if this is, get this right, if I get here correctly, a good proactive company in open source is not just, you know, participating, killing, squashing bugs, but participating in the community, but giving to the core while pushing their own differentiation. That's right. That's right. And I'm pushing their own differentiation, giving to the core, and over time, some of what you used to think was your differentiation needs to go back into open source in the core as you build new differentiation that continues to separate you in the market. Are there any licenses that do models that you like the best right now that you think are worth, you know, keeping rolling open cores one where, and others are different? I haven't gotten the open source licensing question in years. That's actually very forward thinking and intuitive on your part that you come to that because that becomes very important. Personally, I like the, if I look at the Free Software Foundation, some of the things they created with the GNU General Public License, GPL and the version three and related versions of that, I think actually do a very good job with a lot of this because they encourage and in fact force a certain openness around the core while allowing you to separate that. It creates a good business dynamic, I should make a point. So you can build a business at the same time by contributing to the core. By contributing some there and some of the more open licenses like Apache do a good job of that as well in very different ways. How would you say to a startup because a lot of the old models was, oh, you're going to be the red hat of X or I've heard that before, or the Linux of X, they can't always make that comparable because the times change. But also the venture capitalist would also take a strategy where, here's $10 million. Yes. Just play it open source for about five years and then slowly figure out. Slowly figure it out. You're five, you know, you're five maybe you need to burn through half the cash and then hopefully you'll have some management software or something proprietary. I think you need to understand what your business is. Now no one's getting 10 million bucks anymore but you know. No, no. And you need to understand what your business is around it. You understand where you make money. Right. Red hat, unique business, unique time, building off of what other people create. I'm a firm believer that you yourself have to create intellectual property. You have to create known intellectual property. And if your business is just, well, I'm going to take some stuff that's free and package it up and try and sell it. I don't think those business models work. Right. You have to create your own ownership piece around that. That's very important. So that's one of my pieces of advice to anyone doing entrepreneurship around open source. What's your take on computer science? This is something that we were talking about in our last segment around, I'll see you at Stanford and, you know, we talked to Jim Long earlier. He's a Cal guy and has always been that dynamic between Cal and Stanford. But in general, you see. So they do computing at Cal? I didn't know that. They invented a lot of computer science. Yeah. Here we go. I can see my Twitter feed blowing up now. We're going to get a lot of hate on that. No, but this is good stuff. Computer science has never been a more fun time. Yes. Diversity in computer science is a big push. Well, Grace Hopper event, she's seeing 16,000 women coming in there. Well, and I have a daughter, Andrea, who is a sophomore studying computer engineering right now. I had Notre Dame. Very excited with that. We were talking earlier. You know, I was talking to her. I'm her CS 101 tutor. It's great. It's really fun. I'm really, really enjoying it. You were debugging the memory. Yeah. We were talking about, you know, she calls for me for tutoring questions right around. What a great dad to have. Yes. Yes. Dad's cool all of a sudden. Dad's cool, right? Dad can help her with homework, so dad's cool. There's really a change. Let me tie this to big vision, okay? The world is becoming software defined. And that is part of why I see the computer science education and curriculum being more and more important. And I'll take that to one extreme. Take Tesla as an example, okay? Big piece of iron, you know, physical, big thing, an automobile. And yet they update software on that, you know, every couple of weeks, two to four weeks, right? And they deliver new features in software update. That is an example of something that is becoming highly software defined. Take today's generation of smartphones. What do you have? You have a slab of metal with a sheet of glass. Okay. It's a computer. One or two buttons. But everything it does is defined by the software. Everything that appears on that screen is defined by the software. And the hardware adds uniqueness, but it's not defined by the hardware. It's defined by the software. And so that's my, talk about a big trend. IOT as well. I mean, machinery being bolt on with software connecting to IT. This is a whole new dynamic. So this is why I see software understanding education as so important, right? And so broad. And of course I have a daughter who's in that space. And we need more diversity there. I've been a huge supporter of that. And part of the reason I tutor my daughter is I want to make sure that she feels comfortable in that space and that she feels she can be successful there. Enabler. Enable that. That's what women in tech, big part of our programming and it's important to us. And we're obviously thinking computer science is not the old way. It's expanded so much. Well, the software defined world, as I said. Devices are moving to the hardware becomes more generic, fewer buttons, fewer hardware specific features for the use case. And the use cases, the features, all the differentiation is delivered in software. Right? I think that's a good thing. Software power in the world. But it is. And that to me, you talk about big picture changes. That is a big picture change where every time you look at a space and say there used to be a specific purpose-built piece of hardware it's moving more and more to the hardware being generic and a computing platform and the software defines the differentiation. And the updates you mentioned with Tesla is this, that's the cloud example, it's DevOps. This is the world that we're living in. Rapid updates, more innovation, faster. Yes. Great stuff. Larry, thanks so much for coming and spending the time with us. Great to have you. Some great thought leadership. Obviously your history and success has been well documented. And I did not know that you coined the term open source. You were right. Thanks for that spark of awesomeness, which is to thank- Thank you. Happy to be here. Hey, I'm John Furrier. You're watching The Cube here at Palo Alto Studio for SiliconANGLE Media. Thanks for watching.