 Thank you so much. I'm pleased to be here and I will go to the subject. I prepare a little Agenda to help us go through the subject And it's about the mirror and the failure of have a consumer good Product under CC license that I trust everybody knows exactly how it works the license, but I haven't seen a Product in the supermarket is on this license so we try to run it and This bitch will go like this. I'll show one chart about to my background and There will be three or four charts about what has matty to do with open sources sharing community And about to the story of a metamati and then comes the real subject The history of mere that was not something planned That's why first a little bit about the metamati and then how me are happened its challenges and There is the problems of the license that I will go a little in deep But there is a problems of a new product with a new distribution concept with a new this and trial management and That's not only the license. So I'll try to separate In I have to be sitting here to be clicking In case someone has a question that's regarding the language or the If it's not understood you can raise your hand Otherwise, I will have time on the end. I have extra slides if some new questions arise So about myself I grew up in South Brazil. I study business management and applied to an international traineeship Was chosen from bias Dwarf in Hamburg and I got to know that two weeks before I came to Germany in The first six weeks seven weeks and made some ideas and in six months the first patent While I'm telling that about the bias Dwarf is because in five years I could register five patents includes for this TESA power strips I have a four patents on them and And at that time I had to deal with lawyers a team of lawyers fighting 3m on the patent Bottle filed. So there was an experience of dealing with copyrights and developing technology That we will come back after I Also did the website for them and point of information. So I was already interested in the new way of communication that was in 94 and Then I quit and I traveled ten years The pictures that are quite small in between of the rainbow But show a kind of nomadic style and I travel the most in India and remote areas in Brazil or in the Pakistan war line Doing digital inclusion and therapy for different able children Was a kind of a sabbatical ten years traveling on stop the boy with the longer hair on your left is my son and My kids travel like it's ten years going to different Experiences So much about myself, but in that travel I went with the family to make maté in Brazil And research the mythology behind the maté. What's the story the indigenous story of it and create a theater play Where we traveled to Germany, Lebanon, India showing the myth behind the maté and When I came back to Germany, then I should have decided what I would do and And that was the start of meta maté then I decided to occupy myself With something that has to do with my culture. I was born in the area where the maté tree grows Most of heaven may be seeing a picture of a maté tree or a tree plantage or this side a bushes holding monoculture 90% of the maté in Argentina Maybe more is monoculture belonging to three families. So it's a kind of extreme Monoculture production while in Brazil you have 80% of the forest you have trees that are so wide 20-25 meters high on the shade of higher trees So it's a fully different quality and I was astounded with 35 years old first time to see what is a maté tree and what it's to make a maté by hand So a little about the story of the maté It's drinking this original Calabasi by the indigenous. This is not the original. That's a Chinese product But there they drink around the fire where they have the food the material is shared in the tribe They do not have the concept of property Everything that's kept into the tribe is shared equally. They do not have the concept of hierarchy Everyone is in the same level and in that place where they shared the material They share the immaterial the knowledge and there is where the maté circulate Fostering this kind of communication So it's a very beautiful I see things that nowadays we love the club maté and to drink different kinds of maté to fool our concentration or a capacity of communicate and that comes from a very old spirit of maté of sharing and When I come to Berlin that was one of the happy things in 2010 to Meet the pirate party there and see the people drink different maté's and it was also for me a kind of a nice feeling to be along it and that's the picture down there is in the Upgaard and the house and the City Council in Berlin in a meeting where we have the different maté's getting together So first thing I did coming from marketing went to a Boyd University in Berlin food engineering And we try all kinds of raw material and maté to know What is the Teobromine the caffeine antioxidant level? So I did some Deep research on that. I will not go deeper on it We studied different limonades what they are offering and that's just an example here And we make a recipe for kind of a 30 different Extractors of maté with different juices. So we are ready to launch a drink We were ready to start to produce maté in a different way. So that's the path and So this is a chart about the research and we started then also a reforestation project in Brazil transforming a monoculture of soja into a Forest I think that's still the first experiment in Parma culture with maté where you want to use a native wood To drive the maté from the forest From the Parma culture Nowadays all the wood used to drive maté comes from eucalyptus and eucalyptus is a tremendous disaster in South America What's changing the landscape causing urban Exodus the people from the countryside had to move into the city 1000 hectares of eucalyptus provide one job per year It's only the big machine to cut So it's is a kind of local disaster and you are trying to do something about it Well, but when we are planning to do that And we were thinking about making the products in Berlin like a more organic self-made device to drink maté a Belgian raw Chocolator we start to do something that we still do. That's a maté absinthe Then in Berlin and in Dresden we did cosmetics and other little things like Maté honey and different things and there is I can say even a maté in liquid that will be I have there if someone comes tonight. I think in the sea base. We will have some tests. Am I talking right? and Simone the bear is also there and so that was one of the We were creating many things and then comes the history of mere what we want to talk here It was this lucky moment that in our space There was the pirate meetings preparing the campaign for 2011 in Berlin and We had loads of fun and sometimes we have a late evening loads of beer and loads of maté and One night it is fellow that to there with me Maltec and I and others were drinking and saying what's the perfect harbor? We needed to have a beer. We need to have a maté and he joke. Let's call it a mere then and We were in that environment in that cave there and We just tweet out and say who can make a Maté beer and we got an answer in two weeks later. We were in a Brewery Making it and now I would like just to refresh the talk and show you a shortly video when we did that Just making an advance I showed this chart here It was not only a beer because at the very beginning was a pirate beer And so we have to think differently we decided let's make a creative commons license We put all the finances online. We made a pad where the people could discuss and see what we use the money from the little crowd fund we did and There was a question how to discuss how to decide the taste and Another friend at that time Morelang said why don't you do a QR code and then Because there was this problem if every person that votes give its name you lose the anonymity of voting and If you don't have a name, how can you control how many people are voting? So we did this little hack there that we put for every bottle has a single QR code So it produced a different QR codes and every bottle has a single entrance to a liquid the democratic platform where people could judge the taste what to do with the money how much caffeine how much alcohol and That was done developed During the time we were also doing the campaign and what happened It was launched really casually in the same time after the election in Berlin It was the first meeting of the pirate party in Berlin after the election And when we came with this it was called the mirror the pirate cave beer with this QR code You would land in if you click there and this liquid democratic platform and Here's something funny. You could choose if you want to more or less gas more or less matter more or less smell More or less color more or less alcohol and it was everything if emoticons very easy to understand So people were having fun judging it but we also let it open for new questions and That's what you see very down. Should we nationalize all banks? Or should we remove our troops from Afghanistan? So people start to discuss and use the platform while they were drinking beer to judge other things spontaneously Well, we have a then a big surprise because we show there and one newspaper from Berlin made something about it and Sure more people interested in open source to start to talk about it and Some of these mall things for tourists, but then the beer magazines refer to it and newspapers in Brazil refer to it and In little places in Germany, but I think all the Berlin a big newspapers Portrayed it and we were not expected to it. It was a very strong press echo in Germany in other places and Lots of us connect I must say in the beginning because of the pirate and beer and beer with mate so it got a very stronger call and To give you a feeling of it Wait went around Looks like it's a hook loop here in the presentation if I didn't do anything wrong Come as a video now. It is an morning show in CDF is one of the main channels here and I don't know if the sound is proper. So let's try it. It's in German But I think you get the feeling of the place and the people And mate the lively green plant will like to drink as a lemon and now with hops and malt mixed So by the way, the original mate tea looks like in the hip beer version there is a code With it, the internet can be tuned about the taste Much more mate taste should not be then you could not drink it so fast. That's the first time I was totally surprised Why I went to bed at 4 in the morning, although I only had two bottles The only challenge is to stick the chain. There is also no green stuff Yeah, so it was a very strong echo and what happened in the weeks after we start to get lots of orders and Biggy plans and you got together and found a little company and we are all excited Where is it going on what is happening? It was not the planet. It was more a fun project and So the key things was like a decentralized production and The advertiser will say take a bottle back to your local brewer and create your own Adjust the taste according to local issues to be very Blant I would say imagine that the McDonald's in each seat you offer different food according to the taste of the people No standard, but we share a brand we share a spirit and a way of doing business So we started to create the recipes and put them online At the same time it happened the B&L of art in Berlin We're invited to do a bar of a liquid democracy in the occupy camp and was again Very fun thing to make new labels to stick it to make a new taste for them And people are sticking the labels on the bottles there And then we create a speaker corner to have a liquid democracy So it was a mixture also for art project But then things change this Gentleman there is late person from Hamburg. He has a company who buy license from beer and He come to visit us make an appointment and came and Now I'm changing the story to say what is Lisa CC license? What is the challenge of mere and also what went wrong? So it's in the flowing presentation. I'll be telling success stories mixed with failures So this man has been working in the beer forever beer field He has a some distributor and he buy license and let it produce And quite very nice guy. So he came and I wanted to make it and we agreed and everything and We sold the mat for him for that and he sent to a brewery in Belgium to make it and When the beer came in the Berliner beer mile international festival of beer we open it and we were very surprised That's not the taste. It's not the recipe Took some months to clarify it and the brewery will give tell it's really should be a wheat beer a kind of Belgian beer Very fine. It can change But he used one third of the matter of the recipe But it inform us to change the label Because there was content of caffeine and the Obromino need and that is a kind of a First example of a brewer economy or brewer mentality that does not understand easily what is CC license Because they are used to work for license. I will show you one That's what I got to sign and I was very surprised. It was so funny. I make an extract here The contract it was me to be we allow only This brewer to produce from that day on exclusivity So we just cut the only sign and send You can produce it, but there is no exclusivity and so that was a kind of a Up to the latest day the difficulty for the brewer industry to try to understand the product that everybody share The ideas the recipes the way the experience So he wants to buy the recipe and the license and from there on he will be the only producer But he understood that we want to do different ones so We went ahead. I have to say here. Thanks for premium cola who gives us nicer advisement how to proceed We found the brewer a handler in South Germany in Bayern where they are famous to a good beer They will that wants to make a beer and the handler was called the rabble the Raven and His brewer was also Robin So if these two ravens together we decide to make this little figure you see there is a raven on top of the mirror and That was the experience of a very nice traditional family of brewers and Again a problem with the license You cannot build beer in Germany having something else There's a purity law and This purity law next year is doing 500 years old. It's from 1516 so extra attention from that because this taking very hard is playing for this license now So we have to we produce this beer this mirror, but you cannot write it. That was a real production So there although the recipe said Mattis brewed of beer We have to write on the bottle and it was done like this I don't say how it was produced, but it was written 80 percent beer 20 percent Matti. It's a mixed drink We were obliged to say that to not have a problem with the purity law When I say thanks, I'd like us to say if someone has more interest in this drinking industry If you're not from Germany, there is a book here called hacker browser that goes in depth on it Especially the premium color. It's a collective that hacks economy to drinks And so there is a deeper story in a different sense about trying to change economics by doing soft drinks in Germany It's unique and The very special one is the premium cooler that you should see later But they help it to start flora power. They help to start to lead to matter and they help to start many others And it's a kind of a spirit of open source that they experienced here Also to say that the This feeling of the hacker browser start also before with the Club matter. They also doesn't do advertising. It's also nice family from South Germany So now going deeper what's happened to me or what went wrong. I Would talk a little bit more of the license, but I don't want to push to say it failed because of the license It's fair to look at the product itself and see there was some things complicate the product itself This thing of each each bottle be different We have a wonderful places like in the sea base that you have sometimes true even for short time three tastes of beer and We have I know people here sitting here that haven't been in the sea base and bought to one strong mirror for himself And a weak mirror for his friend So this plurality this diversity in the sea base environment is fully okay and normal But if you go to a normal drink shop, it's very difficult them to understand that you have a new product that comes with different tastes From different places That's was one thing of the product another thing the bottle Uwe Lieberman from premium cola say to make a successful drink is more a science of buying the bottles Than a size of the drink is a science in itself In that case the brewer in Germany could not brew the normal club matter bottle or the normal beer bottle Only the big ones can do that his machine would not do it So he adept a bottle. That's exactly the same height and then the long one for half a liter, but it's a zero three So we got another bottle that you would run in the machine to produce me here And we introduced that and what happened? I didn't know it every shop has a problem if you have a new bottle It's a standard Logistics if you are selling a beer or a drink in a shop. He doesn't want to have a box only for this product So there was this is kind of Difficulties also for a new product if you don't know the market you want to go ahead and it can come such mistakes other thing lack of capital Not like coca-cola or Fritz Cola in Germany. We didn't do any kind of advertising we did a kind of a Speaker loan that means the person would help to list mirror in a place would get a percentage of the sales But you didn't come with mass marketing or pushing the product and It's difficult. We went to the main clubs in Berlin where they do sell matter Where they do sell innovative products, but they ask 5,000 euros or if not 20,000 euros per year To get signing into it to list your product and that's not the way we want at all Third thing the purity law That comes also nice and not only Germany Brazil had it At that time that everybody was talking to us about mirror Someone called me and said hey my mother saw you in the newspaper. How are you and My brother is in love with beer. He wants to produce it So this person invested 7,000 euros in mirror and he wants to produce that in Brazil. I Took the flight. I went there We made the event to test the mirror. We made laboratory exams. We did like a liquid democratic platform for Brazil We did the two events where we tried different tastes and you choose what to produce We went to the middle-sized brewery to let it be produced The government didn't give the permission for us. That was the end of the story. I heard in between time that there was a kind of a Experienced business person in Brazil who had a matibia and I have a phone call with him And he told me and I have the patent on matibia You cannot produce it Having but some experience if you painted I know that you cannot patent matibia You might have a chance to patent the procedure of making it or a special way to make a taste But not so generic So I didn't care much about it I went further for the registration of it and I got to the government office to tell me It's not possible. You cannot register a matibia. You cannot mix it when you make a beer And I asked how that person can do it. That was a mistake. He also should not do it and that was a border in Brazil where you didn't come further and Similar then we have the our small production always running in Berlin and If the upcoming maybe of the purity law anniversary 500 years or Some other events our brewer will request to make a special Permission to brew matibia You can brew it but you have to ask permission and if you ask permission You might have a special control on hygiene and other issues So it took us month to find out Why there our breo doesn't want to produce anymore. Sadly, we got to know first from his Internship his practicand his internship told us we cannot produce it and That was a story then that the CC license open sharing Face a blockage. We cannot produce this central so easily as we thought so that was a kind of Saying for me what I do then I cannot be keeping fighting it So I decided to go back to the core of my work that I like for Mati and Not to do the crowdfunding from here because it was not looking for Possible that I could really turn in this mass-productive this central production and Something that would be also sustainable where I also could get something at work a one-half year on it and That was the time we were preparing for the football Summer cup in Brazil there and we prepare a new label. We are ready to launch in Berlin several because it's a Brazilian beer I'm from Brazil. There's loads of party happening. We thought now we come with a Mati beer And it was forbidden or it was not allowed to produce anymore So actual situation We could not work for me. You see in this picture a kind of history There is a cup of bottles coming from Brazil from different breweries from Belgium from by Someone from check-in. So it was a nice beginning. It made a little history and We keep getting in Berlin request to get tourists is and we get some Geeks and people come and ask and some hacker space or some university request it We have a next week in the Saarland in South Germany a festival. They ask a 20 box Cannot do anything about it and to go really large To let it produces a decision. I don't want to take a Resting let's say of waste in my time now the Mati story is more important So Mia is history for now, but there is still some other things happening some learnings There was a nice brewery check that they asked for their recipe and they created their own label They put another name because I can understand Mia for them. They're in Pilsen Mia means peace in Russian and they do not like very much Russian I think they are forced to learn Russian in the school. So they don't want to have a product with a Russian name I could understand they change the name They use another kind of Irva Mati So on then they change everything and they write to me and say I hope you don't have a problem with it So from the original Mia recipe the name the recipe the product was nothing else there But they were very fair and concerned about us And I hope the other people doing something so that they got inspired with it and They write that you see in the label CC by a NC SA 30 by metamate So it's still a CC license stuff It's really confusing then But these people went further we work with them and I already two years long. It's a smell is more brewery and They understood then and they didn't like our label. So they made their own label This is a beautiful butterfly with hop with a matta leaves and we really love it So when they understood that we took that label and we apply in Berlin. That's the mere label down and The people from the extreme hard and softer meaty. They like it. So they sponsor one batch of mere to promote it and That's one example where creative commons and the Product to consumer good good work because we're kind of cross pollinating each other like one helping each other with a new ideas and So that's a kind of a little success story that's really fun because they are going further they have now three kinds of mere each bottle is screen printed and They are doing festival with fresh matta beer and they have the local production being sold locally in restaurants in Pilsen and Like this we have one brewery in Santa Maria in South Brazil one in Porto Alegre and So there is a couple of people doing else. That's the next chart. There is a guy who sell beer ingredients in Brazil So he's selling a kit to make your own mirror and it comes with air of a matta inside Comes everything that you needed to make 20 liters of mere and even if the labels inside So it's not fully died. It went in some strange ways But it's not something that then it's able to sustain me or to make me worth to work on it and push this project The very last chart on mere There is ten brands of mere matta beer not called mere in Brazil now. I Have nothing to do with any of them There's ten different matta beers in Brazil and one of them makes advertising. It's from an oyster bush It's called above in Brazil is the new number one producer of beer in the United States as an advertising campaign and launching a matta beer in Brazil That we can see it's not really failed. It's surviving other hands. It's being used I'd not say that's inspired on us But it's a Belgian blonde ale with air of a matta. That's kind of the product that we have done in Belgium for us It's very summerly. It's very nice And the government of Brazil allowed it now. It looks like it's okay to do the matta beer Well from the failure we learn and the motivation stands I went back to my work and don't panic. I'm doing now a 42 product that's a kind of Insert to the coffee. We are doing a matta called 23 That's organic certified the vacuum packet is cheaper than any other matta in the market And we are trying to use it infiltrated the mass market with it last week it was 3500 kilos delivered in USA and the August come the first five pallets in Germany We have a 18 shop a distributed in Berlin and creating distribution so out of the experience of mere we might Do different with the matta. I don't know if I will do CC license I would be very pleased if the question someone wants to Talk about it or tomorrow in the Le Quadre Tour de Camp at 11 o'clock in the morning will be a math session about hacking business and to see how The CC license now with more experience could be approached to other products By that I finish. I'm sorry for the very ugly shards. I'm I'm a matta hacker not a web Presentation designer, so I'm sorry that they look very messy and huggy ugly and Open for questions now Okay, thank you so far Fabrizio Okay, so if any one of you here in the room has a question, please come to one of the room mics So everybody can hear you and please go ahead when you are working on it Did you have a legal team or like a like a lawyer involved? You mean when I was working before by byersdorf or in mere when you were working on mere Well, we knew some people from the New thinking from far away. I went to some event saying that by the CC license We would not have a legal base to fight for it and the eHSM. I got some people who offered me to do Re-engineering if someone uses our license, but I didn't have a legal base Like a legal advisor We have a lawyer that look together what we are doing, but not a technical lawyer on patents Well, just a basic question. Why why you're so attached to call it a beer? Well, actually it isn't a beer it is it's beer and maté it is special drink So if you just refrain from calling it a big kind of beer, then you're not bound to the Reinhardt's keyboard If I understand it correctly You're saying that if you are not called beer, you're not tight on the Reinhardt's keyboard. Is it correct? It's not that's easy to correct the question. Yes, that's my question It's not quite like that if give us an impression of beer first Mere or not beer it applies the Reinhardt's keyboard, but even if I call that Maté or if I call that X Y Z it applies the Brewery association in Germany Request the brewer to Register it and ask you for a permission as a brewer to brew something else than beer and That permission or brewed didn't want to apply Because it seems that if you apply for that permission You get an extra control and the brewer associations kind of very tight together So don't call the color the brewer then Yeah, don't go to the brewer that would be a way the brewer in South Germany He was very good in the association. So he had no problem. He said we'll call that a mixed drink and They will not disturb me. There are other big brewers here that they told to me we make mirror for you It's no problem. You have to do that at least a 20 hectare hectoliters You like make a big quantity they will do but I don't have the capital the distribution to start doing 20-30,000 liters so to start as small as the problem okay, so for now if There's no more questions for right now Another thank you to Fabrizio. Thank you. Thank you