 Terry Parsons has cared for persons who are lay people, who's cared for our own pastoral care needs as pastors, so many of us over the years, and I just want to say how grateful I am for his presence and the health, maintaining the health of the North Texas annual conference in really deep, abiding ways. So Dr. Terry Parsons is a therapist as well as a writer, and he has a new book that's called Life Changing Stories, a Reflection, Reflections of a Seasonal Therapist, and one of the things that I just found out was that this book is being used for our local Stevens Ministry programs as well as for just personal use as people engage. I think the content, there's ways that you can learn how to do crisis care. So we're really pleased to have him today. I want to just start us off with a prayer and then we can move forward as we begin our time with Dr. Terry Parsons. Let us pray. Good are you, great God of light and life, and we give you thanks and praise for your presence in our life. Lord, we know that there are so many painful things happening in our world. We're aware of all the world's people, particularly attuned right now to the world that's around us in our own communities. We're aware of a feeling of threat, feeling of grief and our changed lives, and a feeling of loss. And so, Lord, as we walk in faith with one another, may you walk with us, may you abide with us, and thank you so much for offering the gifts of persons like Terry Parsons to abide with us during our time of learning and our time of need. Lord, may you bless this time as we share it together in the name of Christ. Amen. So the topic today is crisis care and it's also going to be a, we're also going to focus on how to care for yourself during a time of crisis and to be able to be effective and sensitive and empathetic and all the things that I think God calls us to be for our people. So glad to see all of you on the call and I'm going to turn it over to Dr. Terry Parsons who is going to share with us some of his great thoughts today. Thanks. Thank you, Kami. I appreciate your very kind introduction and for inviting me to be here today. And thank you for your prayer. I think your prayer really does capture what all of this is about. So thank you very much. When Kami called me a few days ago and asked if I would do this, I was honored to do this. I, with you, share in the experiences that people are going through this crisis time that affects all of us and people all over the world. And so I'd like to share with you some things I hope will be helpful and just supportive to you personally, professionally, and as you deal with the people in your care and in your congregation. One of the things that Kami suggested is talk about grief because grief abounds and what we're all about. So I thought I would share with you and just re familiarize you and maybe personalize it for our time those stages of grief. You probably all know them, but I think as we look at them in the context of what we're going through now, hopefully it'll be even really helpful. The stages of grief, as you may know, were developed by Dr. Elizabeth Kuboros in a book that was written in 1969 and it was her study of people who were dying and she found the process that people were going through as they were dying and wrote that book on death and dying. It's pretty been a classic because she was a pioneer in this whole field. And I'm going to share those with you. Now keep in mind as we look at those stages or times of a grief process that not everyone goes through them or goes through this order, but let's look on the way that might be useful. First is that shock and denial or disbelief. And it's an interesting thing, Kelly. Yeah, you have those stages of grief in front of you there. Denial. And I think that that's probably many of us had that thought early on. We may have come on board later, but we heard about that virus in China. Oh, but that's way over in China. Then we have read and heard about it growing into other parts of Asia and then to Europe and hit it like a storm. Then it began to, I think, have a greater impact on us. But we were still separated from that by an ocean. And then we had leadership that really thought, well, no, it's not going to affect us. Those were the words we heard. It's not gonna hit the United States. Then we even heard it was a hoax. And then as we've gone through this process of hearing, oh, it may affect a few people, maybe these people, maybe more people. And then it kind of boomed to say, one to two million people. So shock and denial and disbelief has really been a part of this process that we may have felt. And certainly we've experienced and still it seems as though some people still are in denial about the effect of it. And some people even have church services, right? And want a lot of people to come. So it's understandable when we've had shocking experiences to want to be in denial. I think denial means really don't want to believe it. It's more than we can wrap our minds around sometimes. So the stage of grief that most of us begin with sooner later impacts us greater. Sometimes we want to stick our head in the sand. But if we do bad things are probably coming. So it's understandable for us to feel it, but we don't need to stay there very long. Now, Cuba Ross followed that first stage with anger. This is not always the next stage that people may experience or some people don't really respond with anger. Some do. For some people, that is the first go to emotion that people will feel and that they will express. Some of you may have felt some anger, you know, you've been planning for this wonderful Holy week for a year for some of you and even Easter. And now I'm going to have to change it. And what am I going to do now? I think that some people really feel it's just not fair. And it's not right. And so they will have anger, words like frustration, upset, irritable, irritated. If any of your feeling of those things, no wonder because I think when we're going through a process, and certainly an impact, something that impacts us a bunch is that what we're going through now, people will feel a little shorter tempered, angry, sad, but true. When people out of this kind of stress, they come about in child abuse, I understand that the number of abuse cases with children is increasing significantly. You know about domestic abuse that heightens I think when people are in close quarters and for longer periods of time. So anger. Most of us don't deal with anger very well. Some of us express it too much. And some of us really repress it and hold it inside and maybe get depressed later or we may have term I use sometimes have emotional constipation that really comes out in other ways. And then some people just really don't feel anger. So wherever you are with that, if you feel it, it's always interesting to find out what helps us to calm ourselves down so that we can feel a greater sense of peace rather than anger. If we're operating out of anger, we're probably will do something more destructive than constructive bargaining. Cooper Ross wrote a little bit about that. And I think sometimes it's that what what if most of us have had that experience? Well, God, if you will just let me do this, then then I'll do that for you. We know that bargaining process that goes on theologically as well as relationally and maybe ecclesiastically as well. So in this case, people are probably bargaining in our prayers. Oh, God, if you will just this, if you will do this, it's really something that comes out of our desperation, probably as much as anything. And then some people have regrets that I wish I hadn't. And now I can't do anything about it. Depression. You know, as a therapist, I see a lot of people who are depressed, but I don't always know what they mean by that term. It's can be many different things for different people and such a spectrum of depression. But I think almost all of us, if we're honest with ourselves, feel down, we feel sad, we feel overwhelmed in no wonder. When we have things that come this close to home and affect this many people, it does. We see numbers every day and scales that are showing people have the cases and then those who are dying. I know sometimes we can just look at that statistically. But when we look at that more deeply and with some compassion, we know that each one of those numbers represents a person, person who's important to other people in their lives and their children of God. So when we have that the numbers that are overwhelming and sad to stay true, they'll probably increase if not multiply. No wonder people would feel depressed and down or sad. And if you feel that way, just know that you are among all the rest of us. It's almost like a global depression that people feel. And I think that it affects us in so many different ways. Now, the original work on grief didn't say much about fear. But I think fear is a part of all of our lives. And we see fear bound now, don't we? People are anxious, people are uptight, people are scared, people are wondering what if. So if you don't have some fear inside, we may need to help check your pulse. Now, I'm not saying that doesn't mean you don't have faith, but think it's healthy for us to have some fear right now of what can happen. So wash your hands, wash your hands, don't touch your face, all those things that we need to do are to stay in and stay away. So it could happen. Often, fear is about the future, not the past, but the future. And so we don't know what's going to happen. So how we calm our fears. I think that as ministers, you may be scared, gosh, is the church going to really make it? Are we going to be able to pay our bills? Are we going to be able to do this? There's all kinds of fears that we'll look at on the next page in a couple of minutes. But fear, what is fear? How do you calm your fears? We know that children have this term that we offer to them. Self soothe, how do you calm yourself down? So it may be something spiritual, it may be exercise, but I hope you do things that just help you with your fears. So when we think more logically, more rationally, and probably more compassionally, our fear can maybe not disappear. I don't think that's probably at least it can be calmed. Acceptance, acceptance. Acceptance doesn't mean giving up. Acceptance just means that's reality. And we know the reality of what's going on. We may not like it. But if we can accept it, then we can begin to do something about it or the situation we're in. And I'm going to move quickly to hope. The original works didn't say much about hope. But I think that we all look for hope. I did my advanced clinical pastoral education residency at Parkland and my supervisor was Herman Cook. I love that man. I learned so much from him. And Herman was one of the people who had worked with Dr. Elizabeth Kuber Ross at the University of Chicago Medical Center as a chaplain. In fact, in most of her books, he's listed as the first person of appreciation that she reaches out to. And one day, Herman said, Terry, Elizabeth is coming to Dallas for a speaking engagement. Would you like to pick her up at the airport and take her to her speaking engagement? Now, I was in my twenties. She was really worldwide known at that time. I was excited. And I said, Yes. So what I'll tell you next is about my personal experience with her met her at the airport. She was a fairly small woman originally from Switzerland, spoken a heavy German accent, and she wore tennis shoes. It's always kind of funny, you know, I notice about people. And I knew what I wanted to ask her. So I will share with you now comes from that ride from the airport, your speaking engagement, and I asked her to tell me about hope. And she said, hope. Hope is the most important thing. No matter what the situation is, you always need to look for hope. And she said, hope may not always be what you hoped it would be, or thought it should be or wanted to be, but you always need to look for hope. She paused a little while and then she looked at me, and she equipped her finger and she said it, but it must be realistic hope. Realistic hope in her good German accent. You and I know that things don't usually go from one to zero or 1.1 to 100 rather than a quick moment. No, it's a process grief is a process. What we're going on and going through now is a process. In fact, it'll probably a very long process. What's going on now and what may follow as well. So it's good to look for hope. And then she looked at me and said, hope is what you will create. So that got my mind to thinking. And then she looked at me and said, with God's help, hope is what you will create. And I think that's what we're really about now with God's help. We're looking at what can we do of realistic things that we could be about. But how do we help people have hope and how do we create hope by things that we could do? I've been amazed at all the creative things that many of you are doing and have done and will come up with to to help share the gospel to touch people's lives to create worship services to do the kinds of things that you're doing and such a wonderful active ministry in ways that you've never done before. So hope meaning. I think a meaning for that is where do you see God in all this or where do we experience God from this doesn't mean we like what's going on. But but there's meaning that comes often out of pain and suffering and difficult times that we go through. And as you see that little the couple of sentences underneath that that this is not just a prescribed way. It really is the description of the process. And we all go through grief in different ways. We recycle, we have different feelings. Some things that are on this page, some things that are not. But I wish you well as you do your own grieving and I encourage you to grieve as you need to not to wallow there, but to allow yourself to feel the tears, to feel the grief, to feel the sadness, to feel the sense of loss of whatever you're going through. So it's okay to grieve and it helps us move through that to a point that we can create good things. So if you want to ask questions about this later, you can or we can talk about it. But I want to move next to the sheet about crisis care that you will see in a moment. That's really the title of this is crisis care. And some of you may know this, but if we look at the dictionary crisis, it's a critical time or moment. This is a critical time. This is probably gonna be a long time of crisis as we know. And in that are moments that are more critical than others. And then again, any sudden or decisive change, this is a sudden change. And it is decisive change and changes that we're going through. And it comes from that Greek word that means to decide. My hunch is many of you have been making more decisions from a different framework than you've ever done in your whole life and decide how to do things how to handle things and and turning points. You know, I never use zoom until three weeks ago. And I've had my own crash course and how I can have counseling sessions with people by by zoom rather than by in person and well as to share with you. So thank God for technology and thank God for prayer that no no bounds. So to carry this through, you can see the is that we're all in a time of pandemic. COVID crisis. It, it's the whole world, as you and I know, and there's the crisis of the virus. But there's so many ripple effects from this, all the personal things that we experience. Couldn't tell you know, sometimes I hear people talk about the financial hits and the financial gain that some other made people have, but the financial hit that so many people are going through. And often, it's people who are really kind of living day to day and how hard that is people are losing their jobs. You know, how can you pay the bills is money going to come in and some type of collection plate that we've never seen before. But I think that people watch the stock market. Some of you are people who who obsessed. There's one guy, he says, I, I watched the crowd, I watched the stock market, more than I watched the reports about the virus. So wherever you are about that, just know that you're probably in the situation, most people, it's personal. It's not about other. All of us are personally affected by this. And our relationships are affected by this both, both painfully and beneficially. In fact, I've heard some very special stories that some people talk about this. Wow. You know, I've met people I've not met before. In fact, I even met my next door neighbor I hadn't seen in a year and a half of living close to each other. We keep that social distance, but that's affecting a lot of people. Some of your very people were ended people. Some of you are missing, not having people sit in pews and congregation who might amen you every once in a while or nod their heads in agreement or that they can shake your hand or pat you on the back or give you a hug. I think people are missing all those things that affect us emotionally and relationally, professionally, spiritually. It has been my experience that and I don't know what yours are, but many people in crisis time even reach more into their spiritual life than at other times. And so I think it's a wonderful opportunity for us to be able to help people and help ourselves grow spiritually in ways that will help us grow and in ways that we probably had not done before. So blessings to all of you as you take care of yourself. Some of the most bank spiritually bankrupt people I've seen in therapy are ministers because it's such a job so many times and it's an obligation. But I hope you take good care of yourself spiritually and whatever ways nourish your soul. Caring for yourself is crucial. And in order to do the ministry that you're about, you must care for yourself. I don't think that selfish. I think it's necessary. I work with worked with interns at Perkins for over way over 20 years. And the last number of years, our first session is about soul sanity. It's a little program I developed that I've shared with some districts and people around the country called soul sanity. It's about taking care of the whole person. And I think it's important to keep in mind from my viewpoint that self care is a part of your calling. It is a part of your ministry. It's not something set aside. But I hope that that is a part that you don't feel guilty about, but really focus on. I don't think it's selfish to ask God to help us. Quite frankly, it's easier for me to pray for other people than it is myself. But I think when we're in the need of care and when we're in crisis, we're standing, sitting, kneeling, whatever, in the need of prayer. I like this Parker Palmer quote that many of you are probably familiar with. I love Parker's work. Self care is never a selfish act. It is simply good stewardship of the only gift I have, the gift I was put on earth to offer others. So I wish you well with that. I'll make couple of other comments about self care. One of the books I like, many years ago was called Three Boxes of Life. And it was an interesting book written by Richard Bowles. It's about life planning life planning. You wrote an earlier book called Colors by Parachute that was about career planning. But this book about three boxes of life. He said that the first part of life is about learning, training or education. That's where we focus a lot of our early life. And then the next part of the largest part of our life is focused on work and responsibility that we all are living. And then the last stage, he implies his life retirement, hopefully pun intended almost, but hopefully that we can enjoy the fruits of our labor for a short while before we kick off. You know, the idea is to have some time for retirement. What really Bowles is saying through this whole book is, it's good for us to always keep learning person professionally. And some of us are learning things we've never learned before. So to keep learning and keep learning. It's good for us always to be productive. Or I think a word that's come into the psychological language a lot more recently, rather than just being happy, is to do things that are meaningful. And I think this is an opportunity time for us to do meaningful things for other people and for ourselves quite frankly. And then that third box, Bowles expanded it and made it larger and called it leisure. And then he called it recreation and hyphenated it to become recreation. So I think it will invest some time. And it usually has to be scheduled on our own time, that we will make time to refresh ourselves from our labors. I think this is a marathon. And some of you are running it like a sprinter. So I hope you will take some time every day, morning, evening, midday, whenever as many times as you can. And some ministers are now having Sundays, I find that they're taking it relaxing because they're taping their sermons earlier in the week. So whatever it is for you, I just hope you will invest some time taking good care of yourself that will pay dividends. There's more about that. But the next things are about just some things that may help you as you deal with others. I know you're old pastors, you're probably all highly trained and how to do care for other people. But these are just some things to do more than this. Hi, how are you doing? It's, this is a crisis time. And we're and as you think about it, not worry about it necessarily, but I think it's helpful for us to identify what are the crises? It's, it's, yes, it's viral. But what are the crises that people are experiencing now? And I think the idea is to invite people to tell you about just tell me about what's it like for you these days? What's this like for you? And if there's only everything is fine, say, well, I'm glad to think that way. But what's it really like for you? And if people can share what it's really like for them rather than carrying it inside? I think that's a real opportunity for ministry if you can ask what it's really like and listen to them as you see the next point listen intensively and reflect their feelings. So it's really hard this way and this way or this is what you're thinking. If people feel heard, people feel listened to, they feel valued, they feel affirmed. And I encourage you to think this is one maybe most vital and helpful loving ministries, compassionate ministries we can be about. Ask caring questions, just ask good questions. Sometimes they probe a little bit deeper. But that's okay, being respectful, but ask caring questions. Some of you read the book, Kitchen Table Wisdom by Rachel Riman. And she said that on one side of the family, they were all scientists and doctors. For them, you had to know the right answer to everything. Now, I don't know about you. But one of my Episcopal priests, I see in therapy says one of the things I like about being an Episcopalian is we don't have to know the answer to everything. So I know that sometimes people want their minister to know everything and you and I know we don't or most of us know that we don't. And so she had to have the right answer them. Her other grandfather was a rabbi. He said, No, what's more important is the right question. So just have caring questions, you can ask people and let them shears. I think healthy ministry. If you choose, you can ask how how can the church be most helpful? How can I or we be most helpful to you? We do not always know that but and we may not be able to do everything they want us to do. But I think it's a caring question to ask what we can do for them. Sometimes they say, Well, I just appreciate watching you. I'm glad you're doing this or I appreciate that you're checked with me. I don't know about you, but I'm not always exactly clear about what people are saying. So sometimes I'll clarify and because one of my favorite words is clear, I want to be clear and understand them and then we can respond better to them. Sometimes what we're about many times is just really practical guidance, practical things and useful information or if they're people who are in need and need resources where they can have food. One of the people I was talking to the other day is a friend of mine whose house burnt about two months ago. You can imagine what that life is for them and their young children. And so many times like that good to pray for him, but it certainly is good to help them with practical things that will be a benefit to them and their household. I think with some people we feel overwhelmed. So that next point of just help people know what's the next step to take the next best step to take this the next thing to do and take it. This is really, you know, one day at a time or one thing at a time and because otherwise we can become overwhelmed or we can flood people with stuff. So if we just look at one thing at a time, I think that helps most of us not be so overwhelmed and it can be helpful to that person. You take one step and then another. My hunch is you all do this one, giving emotional and spiritual support through this whole process, caring about them, praying for them, asking them what they would like you to pray for with them, whatever that might be for them and check on people. This is kind of the initial sense of preventive side. But I don't know how it is for you, but it's really meaningful when people text you or ask you how you're doing. And I think in as you are a part of ministry together and I trust that you check on each other and support each other as you go through this because we need this. I've talked with the minister just before I started with you today and by 10 o'clock and I think she's one of those people who doesn't really have any people in ministry and her life and she finally identified one person she thought would be helpful. So I think it's good for us to have people in our fellowship and share with each other, support each other. This is not a time for competition. This is time for all of us to pull together. So I'm going to conclude my part and I'll finish at the bottom of it a little bit later. But I'm open for some questions and feedback and beg the differs or our thoughts that would be useful for you and your situation or you personally. I'm going to ask a question and I'm going to give everybody an opportunity to write some chat questions if you would. I'm not that good. So I was walking down the street last week and my neighbor was standing out front and I just asked the question, you know, how are you doing? And then it was interesting it lists he just opened up about grief and all kinds of things. What when you say give us, would you ask caring questions? Give us some examples of what are caring questions? Some people are kind of buffoonish in this regard. Yes. John, how are you? Is that true? I weren't you walking your dog when you had this encounter? Can I have a dog? Yeah, I think these days, sometimes some that ministers are almost ashamed to say that they're a minister. If any of you have ever experienced that or not, I think there's a time that some people were. I think if you tell a person you don't know that, well, as you get to know each other a little bit, well, I'm a minister. I'm a Memphis minister. I think that opens up something for people that is a blessing these days. Caring questions to me, I think have the the attitude of compassion that you you may respect them by having that social distance of six or more feet from you. I think it's in your warp. As can me as I look at you, there's a warped on your face when when you look at someone and you ask a question or say something to them. You know, there's that facial expression that picks up something right there. So when you ask a caring question, compassionate question, my hunch is your facial expression, it's helpful if it's congruent with the words that you're speaking. And then say, wow, I've, you know, I've not known you. I'm not come to know you very well. Now, I think it's when you ask questions about them or how's your family? You know, how's your family doing? Or do you have, you have, you also have a dog? No, I don't want to. But I think it's identifying where they are or how long have you lived here. It's just those caring questions and getting to know them. To me, it's really the, I'll say the first chapter in my book is titled Meet Them Where They Are. And I think it's whether it's in the context of a neighborhood, the house where they're living, what they made, oh, what is your profession or how's your job right now? Or what's your job situation right now? Or how are you what's all this like for you? And how is that? How's that for your family? I think they're those caring questions. They may be general, but they're not probing in a way that are offensive or you're getting too personal to me. Now, it may depend upon the person. So I think that may be the thing we keep in mind. The chapter of my first book was about my first pastoral call when I had just shifted my major from pre-veterinary medicine to maybe ministry. They sent me out this little church with eight people. I went across the road my first day there to see the person who lived across the road from the church and I asked him. I said, introduced myself and said, I'd like to invite you to come to church. And he said, hell, we'll freeze over before I go across the road to that church. That was my introduction to ministry. What I do think, if I cared about him like a neighbor and it was a rural area, I grew up a farm. I could say, hey, as your family, as your crops. But in a situation like we're right now, I think we all have in common the virus that is around us and say, well, how is this for you or what's it like for you? There was a simple questions, but invitations. They're all invitations. Thank you. I think it's since we're not getting chats, I think it's okay to unmute and ask that. Is that okay, Kelly? And ask, you can ask some questions, but I'm wondering from the rest of you, what are some of the main things that you are dealing with yourself or with other people? What are some of the main topics? Anybody? It's Rosdani. In Casalinda, we're dealing with that some people don't want, I don't know if it's the culture, but they don't want to admit if they need something. So I think they're dealing with a lot of denial, but we're preparing ourselves to later on, maybe they will admit it finally and accept the help from us as a church. Thank you for that. I think sometimes it's denial, sometimes it's pride. You might say that I don't want to admit that I need help. I think that's in that reassuring way that you might say I, you know, we're all in this together, it's a hard time for all of us. Well, we all have some needs, and I'm just wondering if there's anything you might in particular, and I think it's good to follow that, to follow up with that and offer A, B, or C. Would this be helpful to you or would this be helpful to you? If there's nothing tangible that they say, you can certainly say, well, please let us know, because and will it be okay if I check on you at a certain period of time, and just to see if there's anything that you do need? I know sometimes we hate to ask for help. You might even say it that way. I know sometimes it's really hard for us to even ask for help, but it's just something that we all share together. And then certainly you can always say, and would it be okay if I pray for you, and yes, but I think that, and then you don't let that be the end of it. I think that with some people you may sense that it's a pride thing for them, outweighing in a negative way, but just in a very personal way, but it's really hard to ask for that. I think stay with them and follow up with them. I saw a cartoon about three weeks ago, and it was moms with grocery carts, and the grocery carts that you might well imagine were full and running over with toilet paper, right? And two little toddlers were in each of, a little toddler was in each of the grocery carts, and one asked the other, what's all this about? And the other one said, it must have to do something about toilet paper, you know, so we don't always know. Now this is not an advised thing to do, but one of the people I have met with whose husband died let's see five weeks ago, and she's grieving, had Alzheimer's, so you can imagine the care they gave. He died just before they were shutting down, having funerals, and she was thankful to have. Now I wouldn't advise this, but she said, you know, I get up at 5 30 every morning, I thought I could go to the grocery store, wear my mask, I could get special water and toilet paper people, and she left it on the on the porches of three people she knew who could not get out, so sometimes people may just do something without, may do it anonymously as well for some people. Thank you for your question, wish you well, and castle Linda. I'm going to give you a couple, Michelle asked the question, how do you, well she lifts up the fact that now that we're wearing masks, it's a little difficult to have intimacy with that in front of us. I just think that's a reality that we have that I want to lift up. Other persons talk about loneliness, job loss, and proclaiming Easter hope, and I want to ask you, have you noticed any differences in trying to do counseling through a teleconference experience? Yes, it's tiring. I'll talk about that a little. It's tiring, I don't know about you, but I've checked with many of my colleagues here, you know, psychologists, therapists, etc, and a number of ministers who say, wow, it takes extra focus, extra energy, because I think many times we draw energy from that whole process that's relational and sharing, so I think it's more tiring for people. I, when this first came out, that we were going to have to do it this way, I did not like it, and I thought, oh, how am I going to be able to do this? I've done telephone counseling services in the past, so I know that people can do it, but I'm adjusting to it, and I trust that you are, too, but I do think it's different. You know, you get to see a face, but you miss all the body language, you might say, of what people do with their hands and what people do with their feet, and I think there are those, the globalization that you may miss when you're dealing with other people, and just the warmth or touch or being close enough to be able to be that. I think we're all respectful of space anytime, but now we're obligated to do that. You can't pet somebody on the back or wish a well, or can't even shake their hand, and I think many times we miss those kinds of things. I'm aware that when people are coming into, from my waiting room, into our little hallway into my office, I always greet them warmly, you know, I want them to come in, have a seat, be comfortable, and might even pat them on the back if it's a person I know well, and that's okay, and many times certainly with guys, I always shake hands, don't even do that, right? So I think we miss those things. That's one part of why you're asking. Marcus, would you be willing to just ask your question? Sure. Yeah, I've seen this in my own house trying to stay sane with kids at home and work at home and the spouse who works at home as well, and folks in the church too who are still dealing with this, and so just I'm guessing I'm not alone, and trying to figure out, you know, Sabbath, work-life balance, all that takes on a whole new meeting with all of the layers that we're living in right now, and trying to figure out what's sustainable and also like what's enough for my kids' education and my workload and all that kind of stuff, let alone my spouse. That's a lot to do, isn't it, Marcus? It's all of the above, and I think, you know, you're enjoying the joy of being able to be close around your children maybe more than you were before I would gather, but it's a lot to do. I was talking to a person recently who said, you know, I have to be a school teacher now, and I don't think I was ever trained to be a school teacher to my child, and so for you, what do you think is hardest amidst all of those that you just mentioned? What's hardest for you? I think it depends on the hour. Yeah, I think, you know, it's, and it depends on the day, right, so it's totally week right now, right, so it's kind of an insane time, regardless of a pandemic and a crisis, and so then whenever you're trying to make sure, like, so I've got a five-year-old and a one-year-old, so I'm trying to make sure that like preschool education is going on, but I'm sure some of y'all have teenagers or other things, and you're trying to write sermons and whatever else, so I mean I feel like, you know, my gauge on that is I've got to take care of my kid first and then get to the church and stuff, but not everyone on the other side of the phone or the other side of the email always feels that same way, you know, so anyway, the multitude of things, isn't it, and I think it can be overwhelming when you, when I let hear all of the above, it's a lot to do, a lot to do, a lot to do, how to react to this situation, how to go from a five-year-old to a younger child and then also my wife, and oh yeah, I need to write my sermon, it's not the order, in fact, Andy Stoker asked me to do something like this last week for parents, and my word was, how do people create some structure, you know, how do you create some order out of the chaos, and I think that if people, if we can, all things and maybe parties concern, how can we have some order, and I think the longer we're in the process, we will know we must do that a little bit more, not heavily structured in a rigid way, it's about structure and plan with flexibility, and I think that's what you're implying, being able to go from one to the other, in the midst of that, and all of that, how important is to be sure you take care of yourself, because that's a lot to take care of, it's a lot to take care of, and enjoy the good times of it, and have some privacy if you possibly can, I think parents, you know, take turns, as best we can, so you can do your work, or I can do my work, I'll take care of the children, and you cook, or whatever we do, so good luck, Marcus. God is with you. Dana does a follow-up question, Dana, do you want to speak to your question? Sure, I was kind of tagging on to Marcus and about trying to balance grief issues in my own home with the grief issues from my congregation, for example, this this morning dealing with, or last night dealing with somebody watching the news, and seeing how long this might go, when being overwhelmed by it, followed by this morning having a teenager, I need to convince that living life in your closet floor is probably not the best way to move through this, and my phone's going off right now, and I've got to get off because I've got a lady whose husband is septic in the hospital, and she can't be with him, so it's everybody's grief at all kinds of different levels and trying to to be sensitive to all of them, and and my own, even just trying to in the midst of all of it identify what's what I feel and what's what I'm feeling of somebody else's feeling. All of the above, it's overwhelming isn't it, and all are crying out, and all are almost like they're one day on the list, right? Each one is very very important, so may I ask how are you taking care of yourself? How are you taking care of yourself in the midst of this? I'm making sure I get enough sleep. Congratulations, are you? Well, I spend enough time in bed to have had enough sleep. Okay, but I don't sleep. Well, I don't seem to have trouble going to sleep, stay in asleep, I'm not doing as well, but you're waking up if you're going to bed, you know. Yeah, I wake up and thinking about somebody, yeah, my brain doesn't shut off. I wake up thinking about whichever one of the many things I can list, and yeah, not being able to go back to sleep after that. You've heard this thing maybe that we sleep the way we lived our day, and I think that's the case. I think that what you're describing is what you and many people and many ministers, maybe in particular, and people on the front line are experiencing, you can't turn it off. The needs are there, they're all very real. I'm glad you at least are getting more sleep or bedtime, I guess would be a way to describe that, right? And it's when you have the multitude of those things together, just like the person can't even see her loved one in the hospital or whatever else, right? I think that's what you were saying. And then a 15-year-old in the closet on the floor or something, right? So it's a lot to deal with. I'm always curious about how we have bedtime rituals in some ways, how you may do this, but how we prepare ourselves for sleep. And we know that's important with children and how we kind of wind down from our day and wind down from our day. I will tell you, I'll go ahead and share with you something I plan for the conclusion, but I'll insert it here as well. You're familiar with, well, how do you say goodbye in Spanish? Adios. And it means what? Be with God. Yes. Dios is God. And it's something I discovered on my own. It's not original of me, I know, but it's a way I sort of come to an end with things with people. As long as I'm with them, I'll give undivided attention at what I can. But it's almost ritual for me in a, I hope, a healthy sense that when they're outside my midst, I'll send away with the prayer, but I bid them to God. I bid them to God. I've done what I can do, then I bid them to God. And I think that as I was listening to you share about all the things that are going on, it reminded me of something I learned when I was training to be a hospital chaplain, is that pause before you go from one room to the next. Because you can go from one room to the next and this and next and next and next and next. But I think it's helpful for us to pause between those times of those various situations and just a little bit to reflect for a moment. We may not have a time to totally process it, but just kind of pause for a little bit before we go to person B or C or D or E in your midst or our situation need to take care of. So I think that helps us to have, you might call it a breathing break, a prayer break, something that calms us so that we can bid it to God, that person God, and then we can move on to the next more effectively and get more energy and more undivided attention. But I find as a therapist that's something that's helpful for me as well, as I see people one after another. It's not a question about suffering and dealing with suffering. I just wonder, well, I'm not good at it. Congratulations. I'm just going to say it. Some people are so good at suffering. Have you noticed that? I mean, they really... I like it. Like, it really hurts. Yes. Anyway, I just... You're talking about emotional and mental and spiritual or physical or... Americans aren't very good at... I mean, we haven't suffered a lot, you know. I just want to know if you have something to say about how do we walk with and be in the issue of suffering? That's right. I don't know how many of you read Richard Rohr, but I spend time with Richard Rohr at least every morning. And he says, among other things, that it's suffering and love that bring us closer to God. And I think sometimes we avoid suffering. I don't like suffering either. I've had tormentuscus, torn hip, two rotator cuffs. You know, I don't like pain either. And then there's this emotional pain that we all are going through right now to suffer, to allow ourselves to just feel it. That's the reason I mentioned about grief. It's okay to cry. It's okay to feel. It's okay to admit that we have pain. I'm not the best at that. I grew up in a situation, you know, in a ranch, man, you just pick yourself up and get back over the horse. Or you're in sports, you know, you don't go into the injury, you get back in there and get back in the game. I know, but I think as I have come to be older and have more hurts and pains of varying sorts, I'm becoming better acquainted with it. And if we can talk to it, embrace it, you know, not suffer, not delve into it to hold on to it, but to address it and calm it and pray for God to help us as they go through it. And it's like healing and not to avoid it, but to feel the feeling. It's okay to feel it. And then when you feel better, it feels a lot better. I know some people have chronic pain that is just so chronic. It's so painful that that's a hard thing. But how we learned to cope. My first dissertation was about the men in pastoral counseling. And I did a study of 100 people with rheumatoid arthritis. Those were people I knew who were in constant pain, in constant pain. And so I learned a lot from them way, way back when that for them pain was a way of life. And how did they cope with it? And I think that many times you deal with it, I can remember them saying, you know, if I just rubbed my sore knee it hurts a little bit less. If their mate or child rubbed it a little bit, you know, it just feels good. There's sometimes that comforting that we can give ourselves or the person who just hugs themselves every once in a while. But distraction is a big thing so that we can see something good or beautiful. I think that Victor Fonkel, and I think maybe these are days for us to read books about people who go through suffering in various ways. But some of you've read, I just called in Man's Search for Meaning, but a great book. It doesn't say women, but it's all of us. And but some of you may have heard that story that I really love that here he was in this Nazi prison of war camp. All of his siblings, but one, were killed. One escaped miraculously to Australia. And here they are in this prison of war camp. You know, how they were horribly treated, how they were tortured, and some people would have what Cooper Ross would say, unrealistic hope. They would think, oh, I think maybe this week that the Allied Forces are going to come and go and liberate us. I've heard that rumor that they're coming and that they would come and it would pass and they'd die. So how do people live with suffering? Physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, whatever it would be. So Franco focused on what can I do to survive and be helpful to my inmates that are with me. These people are suffering as well. And what they were fed was a cup of dirty water. That was their nourishment. A cup of dirty water sometimes had a fish head floating in it. And one day as he were, and some of the people threw it away, and they just died. Some people were drinking spit it out. Some people would somehow get it down, but would feel horrible. But one day as he was peering into this cup of dirty water with a fish head floating in it, he looked into the eye of the fish and there he saw beauty. And I'll never forget that story. I think that, as I heard with people in rheumatoid arthritis sufferers, as people going through now, every day to look for something that's beautiful or nice, that distracts us from our pain, not avoidance in an unhealthy sense, but in a healthy sense that we can see beauty. You know, it's just so nice. As I look out my window, there's some blue sky out there, and it helps me. I don't know how much you want to get out, but I don't think it hurts to walk in nature. For me, it nourishes my soul a lot. And so I think as we go through suffering, let's find things that help us that give us joy. Sometimes watching a little kid or watching a school run, you know, and being with your dog. And sometimes it's good that we laugh. I think that people who can laugh through this, it's a good thing. But what was the movie? Was it Life is Beautiful? There again was a story of a father with a son in the Nazi prison of war camp, and he made it like a game. He made it like a game for his son so he could survive. So I encourage you to have some comic relief and a person I was talking to earlier said, I'd like to watch Tim Conway, old movies we've been watching, and him on the Carol Burnett show makes me laugh every time that I think it helps us with their suffering. Thanks. Does anybody have one last question before we shore it up or any needs or comments that would be helpful? I'm always curious. And I hope we take advantage of this time in the best sense of that term. For some people, I think we value a little bit more some of the people who are special to us and it's nice how we can reach out to each other in various ways, just texting people, whatever ways that you communicate with each other. I received a note yesterday from a person who had read my book quite frankly and this was sending me a nice thought. My gosh, I appreciated that very much. I think to let people know you're praying for them is a good thing. You'll see at the bottom of the page those words along with adios that we talked about is shalom. On the shelf behind me is olive wood carving of shalom. I got when we went to Israel many years ago and as you know shalom can mean peace but as you who understand Hebrew know it means a whole lot more than that. I think it's that sense of wholeness and it kind of goes along with how we are fully human in the full sense of that term. They were physical beings but were spiritual beings and emotional and mental beings, they were relational beings and to embrace the wholeness of who we are. I think that people can rise to the occasion, you know, and not in a false sense but we will all remember this year. We used to think we would remember it because of a conference, right? And general conference. An election year, I guess that will come one way or the other. I don't know. But I think we will all remember 2020. My ophthalmologist says, oh, we ophthalmologist say, hey, that's our year. But I, what I do want to imply, I think we will look at the world differently than we had before. I think it's an interesting thing that the way we have fought in the past is with missiles and with bombs. And you know the people in the front line who are the heroes and are doing the things that are most important these days are doctors and nurses and ministers and people who are doing it. So I think you are all very important places. Who you are just for people to see your face or that you think of them or know about them. You are the presence of Christ to them. You represent Christ to them. And so I encourage you to do that. Being a believer in the principle of believers, I think we're all that to each other. But I think you're in a special position to do that. All right. I think we're about ready to finish. And I I bet we are. I thank you so much for your presence. I do want to close us with prayer but make this announcement. Next week we will be hosting Leanne Hadley at 1 p.m. on Tuesday. And her focus is going to be on pastoral care with families. And so we hope that you can join us. I think Emma's going to be hosting that conference. And I think she's just such a jewel when it comes to helping us walk alongside and engage children and youth in their faith life. So I'm going to end with a prayer. Thank you, Terry Parsons. I think it's important also to put up on the screen the books and that Terry has, if you wouldn't mind doing that Kelly, so that people can have those. Also, I'm very we are able to put all of these resources on our page at the CLD at the Center for Leadership Development. And so you can pick those up and use them for your folks at your churches. So a ways to be able to help during times of crisis will be there for you to pass it on. Shalom. Let us pray. Gracious God, you are a gift to us and we pray your presence be with every person that has been present here. Lord, you have given each person here the gift of pastoral care, whether they be the one that welcomes persons into the office or the ones that sit by the bedside at hospitals or just call the bedside at a hospital these days. Lord, thank you for the gifts that you have given each person. May you help us, Lord, walk in faith as we give up each item to you that's on our shoulders, each person and care that they have up to you. And we ask, Lord, that you walk with us in the name of Christ. Amen. Amen. Thank you all for your presence. You're amazing people. Keep doing good work. Thank you all.