 Hello everyone, I'm Jim Garrison. I wanna welcome you to this session of Humanity Rising as we convene the fourth of five sessions on the theme that China is not our enemy. Over the last several days, we've been looking at China from the point of view of geostrategic relations between China and the Pacific nations between China and the United States. Yesterday, we looked at the very important issue of propaganda and how propaganda serves to cultivate in the public mind the necessity of going to war. The enemy that is fought on the battlefield is created at home through propaganda. And once the propaganda is effectively laid down and the enemy formation is in place, then nations have the public support that is required to go to war. As someone who was born in China, who was raised in Taiwan, who spoke Mandarin Chinese as a child, someone whose eldest son is married to a Chinese American woman, I can testify firsthand the effects of propaganda in the public mind. And when we read in the newspapers or see on the news that tensions are escalating and conflict is looming ahead and there are predictions of war, that has an effect domestically. People are not only killed on the battlefield, people are killed on the streets of America in increasing numbers and injured and mugged because of the escalating anti-Chinese propaganda. So today we're going to delve into that. The war against China in the United States as a precedent for the escalating tensions toward war in Asia. We're very pleased and privileged to have Code Pink as a co-sponsoring partner for this five day program on China not being our enemy. I am very pleased to welcome now Jodi Evans, the co-founder of Code Pink, who just came back from an extensive trip to China and has really been at the forefront of the political struggle both on the streets but also back in Washington to alleviate the forces that would take us to war. So Jodi, thank you and welcome. Thank you, Jim. It's been quite a week already. It feels, we've learned so much and I wanna thank you all again for joining and being concerned for the need for peace and understanding that China is not our enemy. This week, our guests have helped us to move out of that stranglehold of hate and join with them in witnessing the beauty of China, its people, its culture, its history. And I just noted that Shannon just wrote, in a peaceful world, there are no enemies. And I think it starts there. Why in the world would we make someone an enemy? Especially like as we're learning this week, people we don't even know. How can we be forced to do that? As I say, the war machine weaponizes our hearts and minds and we're here to make sure that doesn't happen to you. I'm very excited for today. We have two special guests. This is the day we hear from Chinese Americans about the effects of the war and how it's affecting not just Chinese Americans but Asian Americans because in the United States, people aren't very good at telling the difference. And so we know there's many voices out there and many views but I think we have a pretty, we're trying to be very diverse. And this is a judge from San Francisco and someone who's served in senior management and financial services, telecommunications, technology and media. One from California, one from New York. So that's the diversity we could fit into a short gathering. But I really want to get going because they have a lot to say and a lot of experience but they both know that China is not our enemy and that construct has real costs. So first, my dear friend and someone I admire and adore the honorable Julie M. Tang. She's a retired from the San Francisco Superior Court after 23 years making her one of the longest serving judges. She's received numerous awards including Outstanding Chinese American by the Women's Auxiliary of the Chinese Benevolent Association and she was inducted into the LEOP Hall of Fame of the Hastings Law School. She's the co-founder of Pivot to Peace, a partner of Code Pink and raising up that China is not our enemy for these past almost four years. Julie, thank you for joining us today. Thank you so much, Jody. It's always such a pleasure to see you on screen and you are so right about the diversity of Chinese Americans. Here you have a New Yorker and a San Franciscan and we're also diverse but very different but in one thing that's very common among us and that is we're all facing an existential crisis and that is anti-Asian hate. Now as the Chinese American women living in the United States since 1967, I no longer feel safe anywhere. Since the pandemic assault against Chinese in the United States has been happening almost daily. I recall in 2023 as we welcomed in the new year two massacres in California took 18 lives, mainly Asians and is reminiscent of the February 2021 when eight people were killed among them six Asian women in three separate incidents by the same white men who targeted Asian women. His reason, he had sexual problems with Asian women. This is an outrage, truly an outrage. It's not just about racism, misogyny, it's about hate, it's about violence and it's all happening at the same time converging at a very critical time when we're all dealing with the pandemic trying to feel what social isolation is all about and trying to deal with that and still we have another layer of very real very real violence happening. Just two weeks ago anti-Asian hate spread to Germany where an American tourist sexually assaulted two Chinese women who had just graduated from American universities, one of them died. The next week a pregnant Korean woman was shot four times killing her and her unborn child in Seattle. I could tell you more, but it's really painful to do that. So what I would do is that I will share some figures with you so that you can understand the enormity of this phenomenon, how horrible it is and how overwhelming it is for Asian Americans to deal with. The FBI statistics, and I wanna use the FBI statistics because it really is quite a representative number when I look at all the other NGO figures, they show that between 2020 to 2021, hate crimes from all races and not just against Asians in the United States rose from 8,000 to 12,411. Blacks are still the largest group of victims of hate crimes, but it is the Asians who took the number one status as a group that experienced the fastest growth of hate crimes. Now, the effects of anti-Asian crime is basically terrible because we're talking about upwards of 2 million people who are actually affected. Even though these numbers are enormous, we're talking about even bigger numbers. And these numbers are actually just not the real numbers because they were collected from a whole bunch of police departments. FBI later made their own assessments and discovered that there were three times as many victims as those that were reported, but they were required to just report these official numbers. And Asian hate crime having risen the fastest grew actually 107% in a year. And this is followed by the LGBTQ community which experienced hate crime growth of 70%. This is not a pretty picture for our country's leaders who have never been able to grapple with domestic racism and gender problems. They just let them fester. But in the case of burgeoning anti-Asian hate crimes, the US has been adopting foreign and domestic policies that are directly responsible for driving these widespread hate crimes against Asians and Chinese in particular. Let me share some history and information with you about why I'm saying that. In 2012, shortly after China rescued the United States from its financial ruin and meltdown, China bought millions of US treasuries. Obama adopted a policy shortly after that called Pivot to Asia. And the plan was to blockade China with US naval power in the South China Sea. I guess this is how you thank the people who did your favor. And in 2020, during the pandemic, President Trump tried to shift the blame to China for his incompetence in dealing with the pandemic. He purposely used derogatory terms such as China virus, Wuhan virus, which fan hate towards China and brought on the biggest onslaught of anti-Asian hate crimes. But it is Biden who not only outdid the past two presidents by continuing with anti-China policies, he started a name calling. Kind of a bullying tactic, he called President of China Xi Jinping a thug in 2020 and a dictator in 2023. His policy too is in line with his rhetoric. He imposed one of the most stringent economic sanctions against China and engaged in military and circumvent of China. He ended a 60 year treaty with China, the Shanghai Communique. This treaty kept peace and promoted prosperity in China and Taiwan for 40 years. But with the passage of the Taiwan Relations Act of 2022, which authorizes billions of dollars in sales of weapons to Taiwan, stationing US troops in Taiwan and direct involvement with Taiwan's civil and military administration, it created the most dangerous situation for war with China. And domestically, we are now reverting back to the 1950s McCarthy era. Thousands of Chinese Americans have been harassed, investigated, surveilled as spy suspects for China. The FBI director Christopher Ray, who started the program called China Initiative, which I will talk about in a minute, he openly discussed his office and how it treats every Chinese as a spy suspect. He called it the whole of society effect. The whole Chinese American society is involved in this spying thing for China. He opened up a new China related counterintelligence investigation every 12 hours on the average. And as of February 2022, he had 2000 Chinese American cases under watch. In 2018, Christopher Ray under Trump initiated the China Initiative. This is one of the most notorious and the greatest failures of all the counterintelligence programs directed at the Chinese community. The purpose of this program to catch Chinese spies from the scientific community, because the idea was that China was stealing all our technology or our scientific information. Therefore, let's go after the Chinese scientists who probably are the people who are spying for China. Hundreds of Chinese American scientists, academics and researchers from across the United States were being spied upon, charged with crimes and their lives upended. Did this program catch any spies? Not one single spy conviction resulted in this million dollar spy napping project. The few convictions that the FBI was able to obtain were process crimes like tax evasion, failure to disclose prior research relationships with China in the grant funding applications. These issues can be easily resolved administratively and civilly without the necessity of a program that and criminal charges. But under tremendous pressure from the community, particularly the Asian community and academic community, Biden shut down this program in 2022. I guess if you cannot catch any spies, what's the use of keeping the program around, right? But long lasting harm have been done to the scientists and their families. And although this program is now officially terminated, the persecution actually is continuing through collusion with the universities and the NIH National Institute of Health, which is the funding agency for research. And many professors are still facing dismissal and other penalties from their persistence. And in the aftermath of this program, the targeted Chinese scientists, at least 1400 Chinese American scientists left the United States and go to China where they could conduct their research work without fear of being arrested. Some report even put that number to 4,000. Additionally, in 2021, the United States started losing published research scientists to other countries while China gained more than 2,408 scientific authors. And these are important because these published authors provide new innovations on scientific and technological research. They can get patents and is a prestige for the country that provide these kinds of materials for the world to share. So China is now gaining 2,408 scientific authors. And let's compare that to 2017 before the US-China Cold War took ground. United States gained 4,292 scientists. China, only 116. So the tide has turned for China's talent for recruitment. Chinese American scientists no longer see the United States as a beacon of hope for scientific innovation and participation. They're now contributing to other countries and the majority of them go to China where they don't have to live in fear of being used as a tool of war. In the long run, this is a real loss to America. Having failed to find spies among Chinese scientists, the FBI is now going for easier targets. The next group of Chinese Americans targeted by the FBI were workers who support US-China relations, who speak out for them. They look for Chinese agents under the FARA Act, which is the Foreign Agents Registration Act. One of the most ambiguous piece of law that I have read that if you are close to China, you're speaking up for China, and you're doing things perhaps with the Chinese consulate, you can be deemed an agent. And this is where we find ourselves now with the Chinese community. You know, many of us have close connections with China because this is the country where we were born, where we came from, we love our culture, we love our heritage. But that in itself could be a point of suspect of being a spy for China. There are, the law is written so ambiguous, so broad. It is hard to determine where freedom of speech begins and where the concept of agency intersects. So how do you define that as a crime? But people are arrested. Let me give you an example of a police officer who arrested. Now I need to share my screen, but I'm not sure how to do this now. You see, I can't find that. Oh, here it is. You'll see share screen at the bottom of your Zoom screen. Okay, share screen, okay. There we go. Okay, I know. Then click on what you wanna share. Okay, do you have it now? Not yet. Okay. All right, then nevermind, we'll get to it later. I just wanna show you a picture, a beautiful picture of this police officer who is Chinese Tibetan. He's charged with failure to register as a foreign agent. He was arrested in 2020. He spent six months in solitary confinement, released in 2023. All charges were dropped for lack of help. Julia, it just showed up. It just came on so we can see it. Okay, great. I'm sharing it here for you guys. Oh, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. All right. And all charges were dropped. He lost his job and his life and his family were in ruins. The next picture I wanna show you is, let me really try to do it myself now. You, can I start screen share while the participant is sharing, okay. Okay, share screen. And there's the picture right here. Oh, center to see. Okay, share. Do you see this picture now? Yes. Yes. Okay, and what picture are you seeing? China is not our enemy as a sign with about a dozen people behind it. Okay, yes. This man here, the fifth from the right, his name is Henry Liang. He had just recently been indicted as a part of a wave of racial profiling and repression that targeted Chinese and Chinese American scientists, engineers, professors, graduate students, and now a hotel worker. They charged him with a failure to register because he was exactly doing things that I was just saying that Chinese Americans do, speak out that China is not our enemy and speak out on behalf of US-China relations. And he is now facing criminal charges that could land him in prison. These criminal charges against Liang, and I can stop sharing now, okay? All right, these charges against Liang and the police officer are reminiscent of the shameful history of the McCarthy era, Red Scare, which destroyed the lives of many innocent people. These prosecutions are irresponsibly inflaming racist hatred against Chinese people in the midst of worsening US-China relations and the surging anti-Asian violence. But there is a glimmer of light as we fight back against these despicable policies against Chinese Americans. As you may know, Florida has just enacted an alien land law that would prohibit Chinese citizens from buying land or real estate. Florida is among more than a dozen states that are, I mean, the past or trying to pass these laws. And the reason that it gives is national security. But the law itself is so unconstitutional because it selects a particular group of people and decided they're no longer protected under the constitutional rights to equal protection and fair housing. The Chinese who were affected filed suit against the state of Florida. And two days ago, the DOJ, Department of Justice, realized that a problem existed and it filed a brief stating correctly what the law is and why Florida's alien land law should fail. The brief stated that these alien land laws are violative of the constitution and Florida could not prove national security isn't jeopardy when Chinese citizens buying property in the United States. The brief clearly stated that the plaintiffs would prevail. This is good news. And I hope that this will put a stop to the shenanigans used by the states to openly discriminate against Chinese people forbidding them to buy property. This is also a decisive win for the Chinese community who have fought back hard against the laws. Our community need this glimmer of lights to affirm our resolve for justice and peace. Winning a small battle is a good thing, but peace with China and with all the other countries with the world is a bigger picture for America. And as long as the United States sees China as a hostile competitor or enemy, which it does, Chinese Americans will never have it easy. Our only hope is for ourselves and our friends to support us to join us to promote peace between US and China that we educate each other and refuse to succumb to propaganda and lies and fight the demons from within by pushing back on illegal application of the law by those who are sworn to protect us and pray that ordinary Americans could come to their senses, be liquid leaders and reject war soundly. So I will pause at this moment and take questions later and give it back to Judy. Judy, thank you so much. Oh my God, Julie, thank you so much. And just thank you, because I know that's hard to share. It's painful. And I just wanna say I'm so sorry. As I was listening, I was thinking about earlier this week, you know, Mika telling us that she'd never felt more safe in her life than in the streets of China. And you started off by telling us that you how afraid you are in the streets of the US. So I just like want us to sit with how profoundly strange this is that the violence that is being articulated that China is is the violence that we live inside of daily. And I'm so thankful that you came to share this. I know it's hard. And yes, the shame on Biden for calling Xi names. First of all, that's as immature as taking us to war and thinking that weapons are the answer. But you know, Xi, who when he first became president made a pledge to take everyone out of poverty and succeeded at that. When Biden made a commitment in his race to get the young people to join in that he would take care of the planet and has violated that commitment many times. And just as we hear about these young, these workers who are innocent and their lives being destroyed, because they maybe represent the government of China which is absurd. People from China can tell you that the level of absurdity that is that we've got a pack which is an actual arm of Israel that owns members of Congress. So it's just to put it in context how really this is madness. And so with that, I wanna bring our next desk. And first of all, I'm gonna let you know that I am telling you very little about him because there is so much to say, but Fred Ting is the president of the America China Public Affairs Institute. He also serves as the senior U.S. representative of the China United States Exchange Foundation. He's an executive council member of the Center for China and Globalization and a visiting professor of Sichuan University. He's a fellow of the Foreign Policy Association, a member of East West Institute's Board of Counselors and a member of the National Committee on U.S.-China Relations. Mr. Ting was elected as an independent board member of U.S. badminton, the national governing body for sport of badminton in the United States. He's very diverse. He was in charge of multicultural marketing, communications and public relations at AT&T's International Consumer Long Distance Division at Oppenheimer and Company. He launched the firm's service into Asia and at Merrill Lynch, he coordinated new financial products and services at diverse human being with lots of talents. And I tell you that's the short list. Welcome, Fred. Thank you for joining us. Thank you. Thank you, Jody. And it's very honored to speak after Judge Tang. I'm a first-time participant and first-time speaker. I'm very, very happy to learn that such a group out there in the United States. After hearing Judge Tang spoke, it still makes me angry and helpless even though I'm going through this every day. Clearly there are rational and clear-minded people in the United States and clearly they know about China, but at this point they're all very silent at this moment. I've met many friends who are China experts, but these days they cannot start a conversation with me without first in the disclaimer way telling me how bad China is before we can even have a personal conversation having a cup of coffee and just talk. So I think that I don't blame them, but they are living in fear. And this is the fear that's dividing our country and it's making us worse. Judge Tang talked about a couple of the cases. I want to talk about a case long time ago, not during this period of time. There was a scientist by the name of Chen Shui-sun. And he was a scientist, very accomplished scientist. Love America want to work here. But again, it's the FBI investigate him putting this force charges on him. And then they don't know whether to... So they want to deport him. And by the time when he was allowed to leave the United States, he was not allowed to carry one piece of paper with him. And when he went back to China, guess what he did? He helped China to build the first atom bomb. So we do a lot of things that's hurting ourself, that's self-destructive. And we're speaking out right now, we're not speaking out for China. We're speaking out for the United States because we're going through a period of time that's destroying ourself. I'm so glad to meet with this group because it is the peace advocates during the seventies who helped save our nation, who raised the consciousness of our nation. And actually I would say save lives. China is not our enemy. And many of the times our political leader have to try to make it sound like China is a threat. So I want to talk about something that many people, it's because it's a different model. Governments are also business, yes they are. If you think they are not, then twice. And many of the governments are operating on a business model. Many Western countries for centuries they have operated on a model of war-profit area. They do very, very well creating war, fighting war. Even civil war, they create millionaires killing their own people within their own country. But China is not that model. And it's mistaken for United States to think that they adopt that model. China has a new model. It's peace profitering, which is unheard of in this world. But if you look at China, when China has the internal chaos, they become in a very dire situation themselves. Any country is at war, China does not make money. China wants peace and they're spreading peace because that's helping themself. So they do not want to have a war with the United States. They don't wanna see anyone having war with the United States. So saying that China is want to be a threat, it's really miscalculating and it's gonna lead us into situations that we are not prepared for. The Chinese people, I know, and I've been traveled to China for a long time, they love the United States. Jody, you've been there, you see. McDonald's, Starbucks, KFC, Pizza Hut, Disneyland, driving billwigs. When McDonald's first opened, the grandma would bring a grandchild, even though they cannot afford it at that time, go to McDonald's just to experience America. And these franchises are opening at a crazy rate. Just for KFC, at one point I was talking to, it's the Yams brand, I talked to a friend of mine. So he said, he was telling me they will open a new store in every 48 hours. Every two days you open a new store. And then a couple of years later, I said, well, you slow down. He said, no, now we're opening every new store every 36 hours. And I think the same situation with Starbucks and so forth. So through these type of consumption, you can see China love United States. Why would they want to be a threat to us? Secondly, Chinese study, students love to study in the United States. Each of them have bring in the tuition that they pay, really help many, many of our colleges. However, these states, if a student want to study science, technology, engineering or math, many of the times their visa will be refused by our consulate and embassy. And that's not really just their work, but they're giving that order to do so because I've spoken with them. Chinese people love to travel to United States. Before the COVID, they were the highest spending tourist coming to United States at the average of spending about $8,000 per person at the trip. And so there is no reason to do this. And there is no threat. Now, does countries spy on each other? As an American citizen, I expect my country to have an agency to spare our other country collecting intelligence. I also expect other countries to spy on us. And that is a work done by those agency, but they should not be crying. We're spying on other people, it's okay, but if they catch something, oh, look at the spying on us, grown up. You know, being a spy, it's a grown up game. It's not for babies. So do your job and that's it. The cold war on this side this time is really on the US side alone. I was in China. I do not feel China is feeling the kind of cold war as we're feeling in the United States right now. Their media is not talking about the US-China differences. I mean, even though we're creating, our media is creating new sensational items every day in our news, I don't see that in China because they're too busy. They're too busy building airports. They're too busy building highways and bridges and they're too busy helping other countries to have peace such as between Saudi and Iran. And they're doing much more. They're sending a special envoy going back between Russia and Ukraine and keep on going back and forth. And I do feel that we, many of these things that we have imposed such as the trade tariffs, such as the sanctions, such as the closing of the consulate. If the United States can stop, drop the tariff that we impose upon Chinese product, China will drop it tomorrow. And the sanction, which is ridiculous. It's such an old way to deal with dictators. Those that are the dictators, they use their own houses and apartments in the United States and bank accounts are all in the ally countries such as UK, France and Germany or Australia. But the sanctions today is really the name only. It have no effect. They sent you the chief executive of Hong Kong. So he just not gonna use his visa card because he doesn't have a bank account in the United States. So he doesn't travel. And because of the sanctions right now, we have an APAC meeting now and whether he will be able to come to the United States or not is in question. Our joint chief of staff, General Austin, he was trying to meet with the China counterpart. But they would not reply. They would not meet with him. So during the Singapore-Shangwara dialogue, he went over at the same table to have the sheer can with him. Do you know why the China side would not reply? Well, his counterpart is sanctioned by the United States or United States is not supposed to be talking with him. So this is ridiculous by sanctioning all these people really have no effect on them except we should not be talking to each other. And lastly is the consulate. I think if we let Houston consulate be open, China will let Chengdu consulate to be open the next day. So many of the things right now, it can be resolved on our side, but we didn't. And when Trump talked about China virus, he really stopped a chance for two major countries to cooperate on the pandemic that could have stopped short, that could have the research kind of done much, much better and maybe can even prevent future ones. You know, China, they're human beings just like us. They don't like to take criticism so well. So when that kind of thing is going on, it goes on. And then with the reason anti-Asian hate, I do want to make a comment on that. The so-called anti-Asian hate is really anti-China and anti-Chinese hate. However, our politicians do not want to even mention our congressmen, our senators. They don't want to mention the word China. They don't want to feel that take the responsibility that they're ready to come from them because unless we look at the root cause of the problem, which is anti-China and anti-Chinese, we're not solving this problem. Does Asian people get hurt? Yes, because of the similarity. Just like Sikh Indian were attacked after 9-11, was killed in Texas because he was wearing a turban. But it was not anti-Sikh movement. It was an anti-Muslim movement. So, you know, Judge Tang also talked about Florida. Actually, there's eight other states trying to impose this banning of property ownership. That CP communists are supposed to own. But you know what? When these kind of news starts spreading, it is not the technicality of the law. It is these haters in our country that they hear this news. And the next thing they hear is a face like me face like Judge Tang. Even the Korean or Japanese, they see you own a house and the next thing is they'll burn down your house. Not all of them are burning down one house. That is the kind of things will happen when this kind of ridiculous law is being passed because when it's dissimulated down to the base level, they're not hearing the technicality of the law. They're hearing a message. Does the United States have enemy? Yes, in this world, but the enemy is not China. And one day another 9-11 will happen. And by just focusing on China, by focusing saying they are the enemy, instead of cooperating, we again will miscalculate and misjudge and our country will get hurt again. So I want to say, but I'll stop here and take questions. Again, thank you very much for this chance to speak. Thank you, Fred. Thank you so much. So I just am so grateful to both of you, Julie and Fred, because helping this audience feel that the casualties are here, the pain is here. And Fred, I just want to echo what you said about in China, they're not experiencing this hate or that they just, they actually love Americans. They're kind of confused by the hate. And there's even with all this hate, even with the US building up for war on them, it's not their concern. Their concern is the development of their country, the care for each other. I think that's such an important point. And also just so sad for you to say that, the US, even when the war is on its own brother, is making a profit on war and that China, the win-win of China war is not profitable. It is created so that that is not a profit. I also, you know, one of the things that forced Blinken to go meet in China was Janet Yellen. You've got two people in the White House, you know, who speak like you, who are like, you can't do this, this is horrible. And that's Janet Yellen and Carrie, Carrie for the planet and Yellen for the economy. Because, you know, if the US decouples from China, the US is over and Janet Yellen knows that. The United States doesn't create anything anymore. We have information monopolies, but they don't make things. And as we know from COVID, you know, what's essential matters and advertising and financial services, that doesn't matter. How to eat, how to live, how to be cared for, those things matter. And, you know, for the United States to lose 1.5 billion customers would be a real deal. And as Fred said, like, there's more Starbucks and Kentucky Fried chickens and Buick's in China than there are in the United States. And that's another thing we're not told, that it's a market and that the profit comes to the United States. And there's just shameful that we're not letting students come and study. And that's, it's, as Fred said, it's cutting, it's already doing damage also to the, first of all, the culture of the United States and the economy of the United States that nobody talks about. So thank you. And so I want to bring Jim back because I know a lot of this is fresh information for him. So I'd love, Jim, if you have any questions for our amazing guests. Well, thank you, Jody and Fred and Julie, you really had a powerful presentation. So I just want to thank you and acknowledge the honesty and the courage with which you've spoken to our global community. And Julie, I'd like to start with you and just to recite something that happened just a couple of weeks ago when I was having dinner in Oakland with my in-laws. My eldest son married a Chinese American woman and they were telling me that they really just don't go out anymore. And they used to walk all through the neighborhood and that even in the Chinatown, it wasn't safe because there'd been so many beatings and muggings and so forth, including with older people which was really a shock to them. So I would love to just hear you speak a little bit more on the, I would say the psycho-emotional effect of what's been going on on the Chinese communities, although as what you say, Fred, to many Westerners, a Korean or a Japanese and a Chinese look basically the same just like a Sikh, dark skin looks sort of like an Arab and the people who commit these kinds of hate crimes aren't particularly well-educated and tend to just blur the ethnicities but it's having a real effect on the communities. So Julie first and then Fred, I would love to hear you just speak about that domain of how the communities are internalizing the rising violence. Jim, I really appreciate what you just said because what you talk about in terms of your in-laws experience and how they're managing their lives now is pretty much the norm rather than the exception. I know it sounds strange to non-Asian, non-Chinese people, but it is something that we are living every single day in every single minute. I find the most safety is being in my home myself because as an older Asian woman, I am the target of many of these assaults because we look vulnerable and I know when I walk out and I just felt my own vulnerability. That's why I don't feel safe in America. I don't feel safe anywhere except in my own home and I think that's how most people feel. And imagine being a judge who heard cases for 23 years feeling that way. How does a young worker feel? So it is very real and it's a terror that we all feel inside us. And it's something that we are constantly thinking about. My sister came back from Hong Kong after a short trip. She's the first thing she says I just wanted to stay there. It is so safe and my whole body is lifted from this fear of danger of being attacked and not just the danger itself, but looking at the news every day, the anti-China bashing news, seeing how bad China is, what a threat it is. It's an existential threat and the China is gonna, China stole from us, China will start a war and everything China is bad. And then when I look at the real news, I read Taiwan news, I read news from China, I read news from Hong Kong, I read also New York Times, Washington Post, mainstream media. There's such a stark different approach to this whole US-China relations. They are like Fred was saying, Professor Tang, that they're more concerned about the livelihood of the people, how to sustain everyday living, how to provide safety security for people, how to alleviate the remaining poverty that is still existing in China and how to generate economic progress, build more high-speed rails to take people from very remote places to the city. They are concerned about those things, but all we hear in America is China bashing. And that's what I was reading on the chat. Somebody is talking about reiterating all the propaganda, all these rumors that the leaders are telling you and I'm telling you they are fake, they are fake news. I learned a big lesson in 2019. I was born and raised in Hong Kong and I came to this country as a teenager. So I know Hong Kong and I read Hong Kong news and I keep up with Hong Kong from the ground level, not only from the news, my friends, from media. The way that the Hong Kong right was pictured in America was like a different world, a whole different world. And the lies that they perpetrated, it gives me no more respect or trust in any of the things that I read and then some of the things that spoken about by the government officials and from the mainstream media. I have no more respect for them. I now keep a very neutral perspective, I read everything. And in fact, every time I read something bad about China, I said, give me just one more second and let me read the other side, let me find out what they're saying. And then when I compare the facts, then I know where the truth arise. And this is what I did as a judge and I can't believe I'm still doing that right now. But in the 2019 riots, these rioters were portrayed as heroes, okay? And whereas the January 6th rioters were portrayed as terrorists, separatists. So when you look at the two standards that are being imposed, someone is lying somewhere. And Jim, I'm going back to your point about the safety issue. Yeah, we are scared. We are so scared. And many of us are thinking about leaving this country. But how can we? This is our home. This is not just your land. It's my land too, okay? And I want to tell everybody, it's my land also. You know, I've lived here, I contributed to it. I serve as a judge. I serve as assistant district attorney before I became a judge. I was on a community college board. I give my service to this country. And I pay my taxes too. So this is my country too. And I'm not just about to pick up and leave. I'm going to stay here and continue to tell people what I know, what I see. And how wrong they are, the information that they are getting. And they should try to really appreciate and understand truth instead of just eating up all the lies that are being perpetrated. Wow, thank you. Fred, before you come on, Julie, I'd love to just ask you a follow-up question about your understanding of the protests that have been taking place in Hong Kong. You're right that they've been portrayed in the American press as sort of the successor to Tiananmen Square. And that China was brutally repressing them to snuff out any remaining democracy in China, including now Hong Kong. That's been essentially the storyline that has been put forward in the American and Western press. What's your understanding of what was actually going on in those protests? And Fred, you may have an opinion too, but that's a good example of both propaganda and the dichotomy between the propaganda, what were fed through the mass media and the reality. You're a native of Hong Kong. So tell us what actually happened. But along this time, oh, I'm sorry, go ahead Fred. Oh, me? Okay, yeah, I'm a native of Hong Kong too. I lived in Hong Kong from five years old to 15 years old before I came to the United States. Very short, I mean, I've been to Hong Kong and look at all the situations. Actually, a friend of mine, his name is Malcolm Clark. He's an award-winning documentary maker. And he made a documentary about, actually he reflected on both sides of the Hong Kong situation at some point. I would love to bring it to the United States, have screenings and you guys will bring him in because it's very, very well made, very, very heavy, but that's all, I'll leave it to Judge Tang. Hong Kong is a very free city. For the longest time, before and after 1997, which is when Hong Kong we incorporated back with this motherland China, Hong Kong has always enjoyed among the top cities in the freedom index that we have. But the problem is, it is also a spy city where all the Western countries, particularly United States and UK have converged. They have been there working in Hong Kong for the longest time to fan a lot of hatred and rebellion against China, Hong Kong's motherland. And in preparation for 1997, the British government laid down a poison pill not only not allowed, but England has never allowed a freedom of election. So we're not talking about election, a politics has never allowed that. It is China that actually allowed that universal suffrage in Hong Kong by allowing the election of the governor and other elected officials. But Hong Kong itself is a, what I would say, poisoned city by the British government throughout all these years of colonization. The concept that Hong Kong people are superior to Chinese people in mainland is very much embedded in the mentality and the consciousness of many Hong Kongers. And with that kind of mentality and the Western worship momentum going on, they started a riot because there was a law that the governor trying to introduce and that is to allow extradition between Hong Kong, Taiwan and China. At that time, there was a young man who killed a woman pregnant with his child in Taiwan and he escaped back to Hong Kong. And Taiwan wanted the person back to Taiwan for to stand trial. And Hong Kong governor could not stand him back because there was no extradition law and this is the poison pill that the British government left with Hong Kong that never enacted that law to allow extradition between those three, between China, Taiwan and Hong Kong. And this was an excuse to riot. And the excuse was that boy, if we allow this murder, let's murder to be extradited to Taiwan. The next time then everybody would be extradited to China. How ludicrous? Because the extradition law is very carefully crafted and written to protect those kinds of happening. They have a court that we determine and then that law was emulated by emulates the United States and British law of extradition. There were protections, due process protections afforded to the person being extradited, several hearings before the person is allowed to be extradited. And but just with that is sparked a huge riot that and there was forced information coming out. The first day riot, there was big news spread across Western media claiming that there was one to two million people that came out. Well, actually the numbers are not important but the real numbers about the 300 to 400,000, okay? When you count all the routes of the railroads by the subway stations to trains the buses that converge into the city, they cannot carry one million people. Reuters, the newspaper Reuters publishing company actually did its own calculation and determines no more than 3, 400,000. And I just want to, the numbers are not important actually at this point. What I was just trying to say is that there's so much lie and that is so emblematic of the lies that came out of Hong Kong. The Hong Kong police did was try to quench the riots. The riot cost millions and millions of dollars of damages due to hoisting flags promoting United States and promoting Western hegemony and claiming that Hong Kong would be better off if Britain come and retake Hong Kong as its colony. And all these absurd things that were going on and Nuri Vedachi, a very respected journalist and writer wrote a fabulous book and really clearly identified all the nuances that was going on the way that the Western powers tried to use this incident to contain China. It is that it's really what it is, is to contain China, is for separatism, is to promote insurgency. All the things that China has been talking about, Xinjiang is the same thing. There is no genocide in Xinjiang. If you go to Xinjiang, if you see what's going on, if you just look at the realistic, 12 million people in Xinjiang, okay? 12 million weakers. If you talk about one to three million weakers in prison, that means at least one out of every family would have somebody being imprisoned. There'll be a big riot and there'll be immigration from Xinjiang. Nobody's rushing to leave China, Xinjiang. The weakers are quite happy that they're staying there, they're working and this is another big lie. So with all these lies about Xinjiang, about Hong Kong and Tibet, these are really insanely inhuman to be accusing China of something, of such a big lie and then turn it around and say that these are our human rights issues that we have to protect. And a lot of people fought for that. Oh, we don't want China because of human rights issues. There is no human rights issue. The only human rights issue is in America, is in the terrorism that we're experiencing, internal strides, the race wars, constantly being on the number one agenda as victims of hate crimes and Chinese community, fastest growing race of being victims of hate crimes and LGBTQ community. These are the things that we should talk about. These are the real human rights issues that we should be focusing on instead of spending money paying millions of dollars to promote this so-called independent journalism to write stories about China, stories about Hong Kong, turning Hong Kong right into something like a pro-human rights issue. It is not. It is a riot, pure and simple. And it's a riot that's been paid for and gendered by foreign influence and foreign powers to contain China. Wow. Thank you, Julie. Thank you. We can talk about these things that's been in my heart for so long, you know. Thank you. Well, thank you so much. Fred, do you want to add something? Yeah, I just want to add, quickly, three points. First, I think that right now in the United States, people have the misperception of China come back that China come in and take Hong Kong. They don't know the history. How did Hong Kong get into the British hand as a colony? Because the British were selling opiums to China. And China had it. So they had a general want to stop the British from selling those opium. He seized the opium, he burned the opium, and then what did the British do? They send the military. Of course, the British has a much stronger military. When China lost, the British make them sign a lease. Of landing them to China, leasing them to China, leasing them to the Britain. Of course, with no compensation. And it was Deng Xiaoping who took it back from the Britain. So people have to understand this was China's land to start off with. It is not like China come in and take a piece of land. Secondly, is that I see some comments about individuals. And I just wanna say, we're commenting here, we're not to glorify China. We're not speaking about China. We're talking about United States. We're all American citizens. We're concerned for our country. The reason we're speaking up is that people do not understand the real situation that's going on in the world right now. That's why we're speaking. China is our ancestral land, but this is not my job to talk about China or glorify them. Lastly is, I just think that as we're talking about hate, I think hate breeds war and war breeds hate. And one of the things that concerns me most about the war that we have so many war is that we have veterans that's left behind. Not every veterans come back with a happy home. Many of them, when they come back, they're homeless. Their family already left them. And they have mental issues. And we're not taking care of them. And that's why we're creating this kind of chaos on our streets, but we're not taking care of that. As long as we continue to have war, we'll continue to have veterans who are not being taken care of, we'll continue to have people that mentally disturbed and we'll continue to have the kind of violence on street. And that's part of what's going on in the United States right now. Thank you. Thank you, Fred. And I wanna ask a question because it's a question I have all the time. It's like, what, when we know that we've been lied to war for the last 70 years and it has done that when we can look at the streets and see the number of veterans that are homeless, when we know the numbers, that it means it takes trillions of dollars away from the infrastructure and the actual care of our own communities. What happens to our brains that we get sucked into these lives? Because they're so, first of all, like you said, we don't know the history. Like, I mean, and, you know, Julie said, but it wasn't a democracy. It was a monarchy under England. And so when people say, restore democracy, what are they talking about? They didn't have, you know, they vote now because they're with China, not when they were with England. And then, you know, it's kind of shocking that people believe these lies because some of the truth, you know, did get out around that. I mean, there were people in Hong Kong who said, America, go away. Just like the Taiwanese have backshandled to Biden saying, stop saying China is going to bomb us. You're hurting us. Hong Kong, people in Hong Kong were saying, stop, get your spies out of here. Get these disruptors out of here. They're disrupting our lives. People in Hong Kong knew it was infiltration by other countries fueling these flames. And I also want to say that no one died. There are people protesting, not their government, but a caught city that is being put up in Georgia, that is the precursor to fascism in the United States. People are protesting that. And they've been murdered by the cops. People in the United States have been murdered by our cops. No one in Hong Kong died. And like Julie said, we were up in arms around what happened in our capital boat. China's not allowed to respond to riots in the street, that they responded to protect the people of Hong Kong. So what happens is, for some reason, our brains don't understand the moment and what the healthy way to respond is. Actually, it's been very restrained, Jody, and if I may interrupt you, I'm so sorry, but sometimes I kind of forget my train of thought and I kind of speak up. During the riots, America actually in Britain expected the PLA police liberation army to be coming in tanks and they're gonna, oh, they would love it to take pictures of these Chinese army coming into Hong Kong and they're gonna ruin the one country, two systems. And here you see how horrible China is. China never did. The only times that the PLA police, the People's Liberation Army came out was to clean the garbage from the streets. They'd come in and clean up all the debris, all those nails and they pick up the little nails and all the destruction that the rioters left behind and it went back into their compound. China never interfered because number one, they believed the Hong Kong police had enough sufficient manpower to resolve the situation. But they also respected the one country, two systems government, which they are done shopping agreed with Margaret Thatcher that he would allow Hong Kong to have. Hong Kong is supposed to have 60 years of this one country, two systems and then it is renewable. And a lot of people expect that to be renewed before the riots, okay, before the riots, before the foreign interference, but it is not so clear now. Hong Kong is more and more absorbed into China, which is a good thing because China is now bringing Hong Kong back into the economic geography. They've cut out a place called the Bay Area, which includes Shanshan and a whole bunch of little cities in that southern region of Guangzhou. And Hong Kong was supposed to be the lead city before the riots, but now Shanshan is the lead city. What they would do is that they would trade the technology, they would have an open market where people can come in and go in and out and young people can get jobs and they go back to Hong Kong at night because of the high-speed rail is so easy now, 20 minutes there in China. So they'll go back and forth. I mean, from here, from San Francisco to Berkeley, it's how close Hong Kong to China is. And incorporate the two systems more and more firmly to promote Hong Kong economics and prosperity. So, yeah, during the riots, nobody died, like you said, the police were very, very strained, but they were the first group to be demonized. They were bullied, the children were bullied in schools and they suffered a lot. They still carry the scars. One police officer had one of his finger bitten, bitten off by a rider. And I think he only had a very short sentence. The sentence they give out in Hong Kong to these riders is nothing compared to what we're giving out to the capital riots, the January 6th riots, whose average sentence is six years to 18 years. In Hong Kong, they're six months to 18 months. And so Hong Kong has a very lenient system in many ways, which is good in some ways because it's such a homogeneous city and they have faith and hope that they can work it out among themselves through education, through more incorporation into China and join the prosperity that China can afford them. And like Professor Tang saying, we're not here to glorify China or glorify any country or any person. We're here to tell you from what we see what our perspectives are. If you don't want to believe us, then that's your choice, but it is time to listen to another side before you make a decision before we go to war. All these things are doing one thing is like a weapon of mass destruction, putting us to war, okay? The people in the Capitol Hill, the hawkers, I call them the very hawkers people, have such a loud voice now. There's nothing out all the voices in the Capitol Hill. You can only allow people to say China is bad. Anybody saying good thing about China get banished? Representative Judy Chu from California Congresswoman, she was trying to talk about anti-Asian hate and she was talking about US-China relations. Well, she was declared disloyal by a Texas representative, Jim Hutton, who's saying that she's disloyal to America by mentioning China and talking good about China. And those are the kind of things that they get in Capitol Hill. That's why you even see the Asian representatives are not that loud of a syphilis when it comes to US-China issues except to agree and vote on issues that would sanction China and sanction Hong Kong and things like that. And they're just not being themselves either because they are so under so much pressure. And this is the kind of government that we have right now. I hope that we can elect better government, a better president in the next term and really somebody who would look at America and say peace is our biggest concern. Peace with China, with the world is our biggest concern. So let's reset our agenda and work towards peace. And if we have to negotiate and enter diplomacy, we will do that because that is the better way instead of selling weapons to Taiwan, building up our arsenal and reaching the MIC, the military industrial complex. Those are things are not helpful to us. We have so much help domestically in America, so much need our fentanyl issue. And now they're trying to blame it on China. Come on, you know, this is a 13 year crisis that we have been having in the United States. We can't handle it. So take care of it and not blame anybody else. So, Judy, I'm sorry you inspired me to talk like that. Oh, judge. I want to say more about what you're saying, Julie, about the buzz-sawing of the members of Congress that actually have some sanity. I mean, you talked about what happens in the streets, but I want everyone to understand that if you are a member of Congress and you are speaking like Fred and Julie, not for China, but for the US and that to demonize China, to hate China is already hurting the US. When you try to say that, the word from a member of Congress is you are buzz-sawed. Like you start to speak and it's just like buzz-saws are flying at you and you have to duck and cover. And just what you want to do is like what Julie said, I just want to stay home. They just want to sit at their desk and be quiet. Now, if that is happening in our country, we have a problem. I want everybody to just feel what that is. We have silenced members of Congress. We have moved into their homes, people who are Americans because they are not safe. Every single person in this country, except for the indigenous community, are immigrants to this country. Every one of us is an American. Immigrants are more American than me who's born an American. They've studied more, they have more allegiance. That's actually been something that's been crafted in them, the culture of the United States and the commitment to them so that they could even feel safe to be here. And that they're not safe. And the members of Congress aren't safe. And I want to say members of Congress like the squad, they can't talk about it. That is the moment we live in. That tragedy is already happening. And I want to talk about this like the piece about how the story gets pulled here and distorted here. And it gets told and distorted to weaponize your heart. It is about lying to you. It is a violence to you. And you know what Fred said about how people are in China. It's like the terrorism of having to stay home is happening here in your own country. By the people that have power in your country. This isn't about name calling and who she is or who the people in China are. This is about you. This is about the country you live in and how people are behaving here. That's what matters. And when the United States makes enemies of people, they die, the fabric of your society is torn and that we have the blood of 20 million people 20 million people on our hands since World War II. That our weapons, our military, our wars have killed like 20 million people. How many wars has the United States started? How much terror has been embedded in the hearts of others? We experienced 9-11 if we think about how upset we were and what that terror felt like. Why would we ever do that to anyone else? Why? Why? The news from China is distorted to use you. I mean, I was just in China and the woman that works at my husband's office said, I live on the same street where those people, she said 200 of them at most were rising against the COVID lockdown. What you didn't see in the United States was there was thousands of us surrounding them saying, go home, you spoiled brats that don't care about the lives of others. You missed that part, that those people that were rising up were pulled back not by even cops, but by their community calling them spoiled brats. So what does the United States raise up? The people that are the spoiled brats in a neighborhood instead of the Chinese who care for each other. And like Julie said, the PLA didn't do anything in Hong Kong. The police in China do not have guns and you're calling it a dictator state. Dictatorship of kindness, maybe. Dictatorship of caring for the people. But the country of China is a country that's created by the people, like all countries. And I just think we should look at the country we live in, the countries we live in that are white, that are naturally racist, unfortunately, that will believe lies before they will believe the people. I mean, I don't know, like I feel ashamed when I listen to Julie and Tang, I wanna cry. You know, that Fred and Julie live in this country, contribute so much to this country and still are subjected to lies and hate. And I wanted, you know, some of the young men that we work with that are not first generation Chinese that are second and third generation Chinese, but are Chinese. What kind of, they're struggling a conflict of identity because they love being Chinese. They love their culture. They love America. What is that like when you're in a country that's lying and hating the confusion of a young person? It's up to us. And, you know, we have this campaign, China's not our enemy and I encourage everyone to engage in it and share these truths that aren't in our mainstream media. But after being in Congress last week, you know, what I heard is I heard that all they hear is war. They don't even know peace exists. They're in these halls. They have these blinders on. They're attacked all the time. They never hear about peace. Do you know that there's an embedded member of the military and every congressional office that goes to every meeting about foreign policy? Where is peace is what they said to me. So peace is China is not our enemy. That's what it looks like. It looks like being able to say China is not our enemy. And if you can do that even just from the place of making them an enemy is gonna destroy the comfort of your own life, start there. But we've launched a code pink, a summer of peace. Remember the summer of love? That was about war, but we need a summer of peace. We need to make peace, cool and loud again. Because if members of Congress are not feeling peace, we gotta make that happen. They're the ones with their fingers on the levers of power. So at code pink, we have a phone bank every day where hundreds of people come and we just call so that they can know that there are voices for peace. But I mean like peace, peace walks across the Golden Gate Bridge, peace signs in your window, paint your fence with a peace sign. Let's just remember peace. It's a value. It's important. It's important to life. Peace is about life or it's about death. I mean, we live in this time that is where too many people have lost the connection to life and it's up to us, but it's not, it's not. And I find this happens to people like, well, they have to fix, no, that's over. Let me just say, they are not fixing it. They've, they're lost in darkness. They're, I've been there. I was in the halls of Congress. They are so lost and they're lost. They're afraid. Like what kind of member of Congress can you be if you're afraid? You can't make good choices from fear. We know that that's why we're peace activists. You've got to make choices from a place of comfort, a place of security. That's where wisdom happens. That's where you make good choices. And it starts locally and it starts with you in your community. So I just encourage you to join us for this summer peace. Do you know that summer ends on September 21st and September 21st is the International Day of Peace. Well, a summer actually ends on September 22nd, but the last, the day before it ends is the International Day of Peace. And I want this summer to conclude on that day with us taking over New York City while everybody's meeting at the UN with the message of peace. So visualize that, be part of it. It's like we've heard these stories and I say this is an antidote to what is breaking my heart from hearing these stories and knowing, the Julie Safer in her home and walking in the beautiful streets of her city. And I wanna also say that Fred and Julie have different politics, but they come together around one thing. China's not our enemy. It's like, let's come together around something. Let's come together for peace. It matters in our community. It matters to life. It matters to the planet. The greatest contributor to climate change is war. So join us for our summer of peace because that's how you can take what you feel in your heart right now that was shared by Julie and Fred. And give it form. Peace. Thank you, Julie. Thank you. I really appreciate this. And I'm not here to ask people to feel sorry for me. I want people to know that I have so much courage because of what I'm seeing, what I'm experiencing. I'd rather be somewhere else than speaking here, but I am driven by the courage of Jody and coping a very active involvement in the peace movement. I think the people in my group pivot to peace also inspire me. We share what we know. We also debate and discuss among ourselves and we come from different parties. We are Republicans, Democrats. We are Socialists. We are non-parties. We just come from everywhere. We are so non-partisan, but we want one thing. We don't want America to turn militaristic on China and on anywhere else in the world. We want to get rid of the military industrial complex, bury them. And let's talk about, like Jody said, what we can do to help the rest of the world and help ourselves. And I think America needs so much help, so much help. I mean, I was just reading some of the chat talk, not just Asians. Other people don't feel safe either because we are in especially people in San Francisco. There's danger lurking everywhere. And that's part of the reason why I don't want to go out is not just anti-Asian hate. It's because we are a city filled with crimes. And whether these crimes come from neglect, the neglect from our government, the refusal to face up to a country is very important. A large group of people are impoverished. They are needy, not just veterans, but minorities and also white people. Most of the people who are now infested and drug addicted are young white males that I see in San Francisco. And there's all these lots of talents and resources. It's just not good for our country. We cannot just rely on printing money from a machine and taking merchandise from China and give them this paper money that we print from the machine and to be like this for the next 50 years. It's not gonna happen. And the de-dolarization is happening. It's not because of China is putting the blocks together using their own currency. It's because we are abusing our own way of government, our way of our economics and benefiting as just a small group of people and leaving the large group of people behind. And we have to deal with all of those issues. And I really hope that there's another issue coming up and there's biases. Somebody also mentioned in a chat talk and that is the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. That act which is stem from the Patriot Act which was enacted just 45 days after 9-11, the fastest enactment of any law alive did away with warrants searches. The Intel agencies, the NSA, CIA, FBI can just determine who is a criminal, who should be surveilled, who's a phone that we should start listening in on, whose emails that we should read on their own standards. They have a standard, but there's so much abuse. Even they themselves felt that the Department of Justice felt that needs to be clamped down. The FISA court also felt this is shocking, the kind of abuse that's been going on because as a foreign intelligence, they're supposed to listen on foreigners, okay? Outside of our country and foreign agents in this country. But no, they're not listening to American citizens. Domestic surveillance is now rampant. And this act is supposed to sunset at the end of this year. So let's work on sunsetting it or having some real reforms. The court is overseeing it, but I don't feel it's enough. So it is again up to us. There's so much that we have to do here. Why are we focused on demonizing China? Why are we focusing on fighting with China? Why are we focusing on saying China stole our property, China human rights, this and that? Let them develop their own society. China has its own system. They're not interested in transporting it to us. They have no interest to say that you have to be socialist. They've never said that. We are the ones who say that they have to have democratic system, our democratic system. Actually, they have a lot of democratic governance in China too. They run by local communities and provincial communities. They all have a lot of say. And just like in America, I have more influence in my own city community in San Francisco, voting for mayors, voting for supervisors, how they run my life, how they regulate our cities. A lot more influence there. I have no influence with what's going on in Washington. I know Jody's trying to influence the capital. And I just, so behind her in doing that, I love her for doing all the things that she's doing. That's why I'm here. But there's so much that we can do together and let's focus on our domestic issues and really try to have a better government for ourselves and for the world. Thank you, Julie. Fred, do you have any last comments? Yes. I think that the China hate and the China resentment really stem from jealousy. And I have a suggestion. Why not the United States stop to have war for 50 years? Only 50 years. The next 50 years, stop having any war, stop advocating war, stop participating war, stop doing war. Instead, we'll build better infrastructure. We're making sure all of our community have digital access. We try to alleviate poverty in our own country and we work on the welfare and the prosperity of Americans. I bet you we will have miracles happening in the United States. And also our soldiers, which soldiers' parents, spouse, brothers or sisters want to see them go to war? Yes, they should join the military. We have a military to protect ourselves in case we get attacked. But none of their family members ever want to see them go to war. That's why they cry when they go to war. So what I'm saying is give peace a chance for 50 years. This is what China did in the last 50 years and look what they have done. So thank you. I also have another suggestion. How about us reinstate the people-to-people exchange, the friendships between people-to-people. Forget about the governments. Do engage with China by visiting China and then bring Chinese people here to visit America. I think we need to reinstate that concept that we had that brought on the U.S.-China reunification, yeah, U.S.-China reunification, China normalization of U.S.-China relationship under the Shanghai Communique that there was a lot of people-to-people exchange. And don't visit China. Just take one city. Do it go to Guangzhou, Shanghai, Beijing, whatever city you want to go. Take one big off and see for yourself. You need the United States to open up flights again. Unfortunately, they're making it so you can't go to China. So another problem of the United States, but wow, what a great conversation. I love you both. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you, Jim. Yes, 50 years of commitment to peace. War is not the answer. Thank you so much. Thank you. Bye-bye. That'll bring us to a close, everyone. Jody, Fred, Julie, this has been spectacular. This has been truly spectacular. I so respect your integrity and your deep courage and passion for peaceful relations between the United States and China. So thank you all. And that'll bring us to a close, everyone. You're welcome to the after session chat. You'll see the link in the chat box and then we'll see you tomorrow for our fifth and final session on why China should not be our enemy. Thank you all. Bye for now.