 Welcome back to Think Tech. This is history is here to help and history today is going to cover kindness and decency in this world, in this life. My co-host is Carl Ackerman. He is a mensch, by the way. I wanted to do that to you, Carl, and Matt Goldberg and word has it that he is likewise a mensch. Okay, rings of goodness. Carl, you know, Matt is here with us and you know Matt and I would like if you would introduce Matt and try to be reasonably controlled. Okay, I will try that. I can't guarantee you about the control, though. You know, this book that Matt has written called rings of kindness is really the antidote to a lot of the political commentary that's going on. And, you know, Matt Goldberg kind of fits the bill. He's a very kind man. I was able to meet him through another friend of ours named Eric Gray, who was also an author and has written books about baseball. But, you know, his praise is quite prolific for Matt. And that's why I wanted to meet him and I was able to meet him recently in New Jersey. And we had a very good time. We were sitting at a sort of a living room of a courtyard, Marriott, where I was staying at the time. And we had just a delightful time. And, you know, all the three of us, Jay, that's Matt, you and me, are we decided are in the same sort of bucket as it were in the sense that we're all married to women considerably prettier and brighter than ourselves. So there we go. Wow. Okay, what an opening. Let me ask you a question that has troubled me for a long time, Matt, at least from 2017 on forward, if you get my meaning. This is all about being kind and decent. And all that is an antidote for today's mischievous. But, you know, you know, sometimes we in this life would like to be kind and like to be decent and like to do the right thing. We like to govern our navigation our journey through the world in those terms. However, we run into people, especially since 2017, who are not kind. And it's not a matter of them shouting, it's a matter of them shouting hate and shouting lies and shouting propaganda. And the big problem I don't know if you're covered in the book, but the big problem for the person who values kindness and decency is how to deal with somebody like that. Can you handle that question? I'll try and thanks Jay and Carl for having me on the show. The book is a compilation of stories 85 to be exact by 81 different authors about times in which we received acts of kindness from someone else in our lives. It could have been kindness from strangers, but not kindness from a family member or so and we were closely personally connected with at the time. So I'm not blind to the realities of the world and the state of our political world these days. And I think, and I like to operate. So the book is really apolitical and it crosses any denominations, any ways that we may choose to divide ourselves. But to your question, I would say I would like to live life from the 50 yard line, if you will, to huddle together to find the common ground, the shaded area on the Venn diagram, if you will, but that sometimes gets harder and harder to do when we're not dealing with the same set of facts. And when the truth is not necessarily a priority. So it's nothing that I talked about in the book. I am aware of those challenges. But to that, I say we really have to just try to live up to our own standards as much as possible. And sometimes there are some situations we could try to lead with kindness. And if it doesn't work, at least we could say we sincerely gave it our best. But there's some situations we may have to walk away from where we just can't have. Yeah, I love to learn from other people, other people's perspectives. And I don't have a monopoly on the truth or the right philosophy. But in certain situations, it is it is hard to do that, unfortunately. I call the book rings of kindness. And that that makes me curious about what you mean by rings. This is it's sort of concentric circles of kindness is some kind of smore. This is out of animal farm is some kindness more kind than other kindness. Yeah, well, the story case though, what became the story that launched the book was I won't won't tell it all. But a story that I titled a ring of kindness about the people who found my wedding band and posted a sign. I happened to see it when I was walking with my wife, my son, my little dog, around a glorified duck pond, and they happened to have just posted the sign ring found. And it was fantastic good fortune. But also we met people from Jerry Hill, my town, lived a mile and mile, mile and a half away. And I wouldn't have really met them otherwise. And I posted the story of all things to Facebook, hardly a literary site. With a little tagline, good people really do abound in this case on Jerry Hill. But that could be Honolulu, that could be New York City, wherever it is. And it just struck such a resonant chord. And I started just compiling other stories. I define the parameters as I just indicated, people not closely, personally connected with us, and where we're the recipients of the act of kindness. So, and then rings did take on a double meeting, perhaps concentric circle, people holding these invisible rings, you know, that that connect us in some cosmic way, I suppose. I have a short story for you. I was married on June 22, 1968, here in Honolulu. And after a very abbreviated honeymoon, my wife and I went to the Elks Club and sat on the lanai outside there with us right over the water. And she was fidgeting with her wedding ring. And she turned it this way. And she turned it that way. And when one turn it dropped off her finger into the water. And she was really upset about this. Now the Elks Club has more than a spare share of kindness, however you want to characterize the Elks Club. And all of a sudden, people were there in the water by the dozens, trying to find this ring. The whole Elks Club was trying to find this ring and lo and behold, and it wasn't only them, it was God himself in heaven. Okay, he found the ring and presented it back to her. And I'll never forget that. He talked about rings and kindness. Yeah, that's a great story and shout out to the Elks. But one of the things was that the people who found the ring and then I just drove over to their house that day and they seemed as happy as I was to reunite my finger with my favorite inanimate companion. But yes, in the book there are stories from such a variety of situations and from different times of our lives. A gentleman in his, probably his late 70s, grew up in the Bronx in a family that didn't have books that he describes as dysfunctional. Maybe we all describe our families that way in some sense. And his first grade teacher presented him with his very first book, Sign Love, I think the name was Mrs. Hyman, right? I remember that. He was a Jewish kid. The book was called something like Bobby Blugum plays Father Christmas, but it didn't matter. It was the love and that action, that faith in him. He'd never seen love signs and had his own book before. And since then, he's become a voracious reader and can I say a voracious writer? I don't know, but quite a good writer. Also several books, screenplays, but that stuck with him, Stephanie or so years later. And sometimes the act isn't necessarily that momentous and it doesn't cause any sacrifice in most situations for the giver, but to the recipient, it just means the world to them. Well, sometimes we offer the thought that sometimes for the giver, it means the world to them. Sometimes it may change the whole, you know, it may be a pivotal point for that individual, even though maybe it doesn't mean that much to the recipient, but somehow the giver finds himself or herself in a place where he or she had not been before. And that person realizes, you know, who he or she really is. Would you agree? I would agree. I think that's a great point. One dynamic I've been thinking about is if we realize how important these, I'll say small acts of kindness, some of the acts in the book are, I don't know how to be objective, seems to be bigger or grander than others. But if we knew how even the small acts of empathy, kindness and love were, wouldn't we be inclined to perform them more often? And I think the answer is yes. And well, whether we always realized it in those moments, I don't know. But I think it really starts with them, whatever each one of our definitions of kindness may be, for me it starts with human empathy. We are not born kind. I'll go on record about that. We are not born kind. When we, you know, come to inhabit this earth, we may not have the kind of decency that we later appreciate. And then the question is, how do you become kind? What happens to you to become kind? What happens to you to become decent? And at what point, what circumstances make you a person who values kindness, who values decency? You know, in my law firm, some early part of the development of my law firm, we began seeing each other and seeing the firm as an expression of decency. I'm going to go on record with this too. Not all law firms are kind and decent. Okay. No disagreement there. But some are, and some organizations are, and the world would be a better place if more of them were. But at what point and what happens to make a group, a society, individual, community, what have you, recognize this as a primary value? Yeah, it's a great question and observation. And I'm stolen to give the answer. I don't know if I've thought about it quite on this plane, to be honest. We're obviously shaped by our family, our friends, our neighbors, perhaps religious teachings, cultural teachings. But I'm still fighting your initial line, Jay. I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm just trying to think about it, that we're not born automatically kind. And I'm not sure. I don't have any other studies to cite a different point of view on this. But I'm not sure. That's something I'll be pondering. A little bit. Well, let's look at the data. You know, anecdotal as it may be, you'll have a bunch of stories about this very subject and process, and causes and effect in your book. And so can you give us, say, your most favorite, I know this is a hard question, your most favorite story to share with us? President Company Excluded, because I'm happy to have Carl's story titled Waves of Kindness, and my own little stories. But I'll give a shout out if you were a story. I was going to put my A Ring of Kindness story. It's better on paper than how I described it earlier as the first story in the book. But I love this story from Wendy. What am I thinking? I don't know if I have a number one. I think most of these stories will resonate with the readers. It's titled Fresh Flowers and Vintage Vosses. Wendy was going through treatment for pancreatic cancer. And a neighbor who wasn't a close friend knew somehow that she was doing that. And one day she delivered a bouquet of flowers on her front porch. Wendy called to thank the neighbor. I think her name is Sonia, or I don't know if that's her real name or the name that was used in the book, in the story. And the woman said, Oh, you're welcome. And I'd like to have the vase back. And she didn't know exactly what to say. There was a little bit of a pregnant pause. And then the woman, Sonia added, so I could refill it for you. And she did that. She refilled it with the new bouquet of flowers the following week, the week after that, every week for a full year. And what that did to pick up Wendy's spirit, thankfully, and she's a beautiful person, is in remission. And it just, it brought so much joy to her in anticipation, what's going to come, I don't know what day and week, what's going to come this Thursday, and just a beautiful flowers in this lovely presentation. And it just, it meant the world to her. And she writes it with appreciation and humor. So that's a story that I thought was a great one to lead off the book. And I officially have 85 favorite stories because I appreciate people like Carl and Wendy and others, pardon me, entrusting me with their stories, and that I would edit them along with them and try to, I don't know, give the stories the proper presentation in a book that we could all be proud of. Your name names? Do I name names in my own stories or in the 85 story? Oh, I had a rule that if an unofficial rule, I suppose, if someone was mentioned in a negative context, because there were a little bit of conflict and resolution, some of the stories, I kind of asked honor system to not use the name. If it's someone mentioned in a kind context, then I was a little more liberal as far as that restriction could use the name. But I really didn't want, I'm not a Pollyanna, but I didn't want anything in this book to be negative. I was telling you before the show that last night I saw a YouTube interview of Ari Melba and Tom Hanks. And I've really seen an interview with Tom Hanks before. It was about an hour long, that's long for YouTube. And it was the most remarkable interview. You know, you've agreed that Ari Melba is one of the best. And he's a lawyer, by the way, decent lawyer. And Tom Hanks, I didn't know him. You know, you can only know so much about a person, an actor, from watching the movies. And Tom Hanks can take on bloody, any bloody role at all. But what he said that really a lot of things he said struck me. The one thing he said to define himself was that he rejected sin assistance. In this life, he was not going to be cynical about anything. And he wasn't going to portray any role in any of his movies. He would say no to a role that called for him to be cynical. And thinking back down, you know, down the path of all of Tom Hanks movies, I think that's true. His most recent movie we haven't seen it as well, a man called Otto, which is brilliant. And some say the best that he ever did. But do you agree with that? Is cynicism part of the formula here? Is cynicism part of the formula that we should perhaps try to reject or not give in to? Yes. Is that? Yeah, I would agree with that. Sorry, I was stuck on Tom Hanks and trying to. I saw Carl gave the thumbs up also on that movie role. So that is high praise with all the movies that he's made. But to your question, Jay, yeah, I thought that I never become cynical. I am not the perfect exemplar of kindness, but I will say that I think we will serve ourselves and others better if we don't give into cynicism as much as possible and just try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Easier said, perhaps, than done. I don't have a magic formula for that. But I'm hoping the stories in this book will reinforce that there truly are good kind people doing good kind things every day. And that may shake off a little bit of the of the cynicism. I know I try in my writings. I do have in a reverent streak at times, the satiric streak, but I try not to give in to sarcasm. And I guess there's, I don't know if there's a solid line between a reverence and sarcasm. I say one. I would like to open up new worlds sometimes with a reverence. But this book was an exercise in really trying to preserve people's voices and their natural humor, but to not give into cynicism. And if nothing else, it's one collection of stories that will be heartwarming for people. I think that was the sort of book that I needed to read during the pandemic. So thanks to the 81 other writers, there is this book out there that that people will feel very good about reading maybe feel just a little bit better about the human condition when they recall their own stories, whether they've committed them to paper or even talked about them before. So I was certainly going for that. But day to day, realistically, it's hard sometimes not to be a little bit jaded and cynical. And the last few years especially have been tough with the pandemic. And this book was birthed during the early, well, it was conceived of during the early days of the pandemic. It was more than a 10 month birth. But I'll stop that analogy. But during those times, then I know I wanted to lose some of my own cynicism and just lose myself in these stories. Well, you suggest that a book like this about kindness was very appropriate in the past tense during the time of COVID. But I suggest to you that it is still appropriate because in many ways we are still living in the time of COVID. Our world has changed individually in terms of family and society, community. We are still in what you want to call it a post COVID world. And therefore, if the book that you wrote was relevant during the height of COVID, it is still relevant. Don't you agree? I agree. And thank you. Yeah. I don't think that kindness ever goes out of style. It's we're, this sounds trite, but early on, my first thought is we have to be connected to one another by more than our virus or viruses, if you want to say plural. And during the early days of the pandemic, we all read or maybe experienced people, I don't know, buying up all the toilet paper in the cases of hand sanitizer maybe selling them for profit, but not, you know, not showing concern for everyone else. But at the same time, friends were helping friends, neighbors were helping neighbors, healthcare workers of all types were working 24 hours shift with great dedication and humanity. So I think the pandemic has changed us forever. And hopefully eventually that will be in a good way if we appreciate what what really does connect us as humans. Carl history is here to help. And you're an historian among many other things. And I wonder if you can help us connect up the notion the underlying notion of Matt's book with history. I mean, kindness sometimes has not been involved. Arguably, it was involved during the Enlightenment. It was not involved in the 40s in Europe. And so many other times in history, it was not involved during the bubonic plague, the black plague in the 14th century. I feel certain that people, you know, we're not feeling very kindly in those days. But can you connect it up? You know, Jay, I, you know, you, you pose a great question. And, you know, when I think of Matt's book, I think of, you know, if people like Oscar Schindler or a Catholic, there's a wonderful little book called Never Say Your Name. And it's written by a woman who was taken in during the Holocaust by a Catholic nun. And, you know, she changed her name. And, you know, of course, these people that did this, including Oscar Schindler, you know, were taking great risk for themselves. So I always wonder whether it was just the religion or the way they were brought up. And I think it's the probably combination of both. And so going back to your earlier question, I mean, that's my connection with history. But going back to your earlier question, Jay, about, you know, how do you teach this is I think that if you had Matt's book, and you were at a school, you could, you know, maybe every week read one of these stories, and then talk about it. And, you know, why people were so kind and get it in people's heads about kindness. And if I could share something, not in the book, there's a story that Matt has kindly put in the book. But there's another thing that happened just yesterday for me. I was, and Jay, you will understand this greatly because I was, you know, trying to get my tires fixed at Lexi Brody, which always takes about two or three hours. So I walked to, you know, a natural food store. And there was a woman in front of me who was having trouble with her credit card. And either she's putting it in, she couldn't get the right number and stuff like that. And I found out during the conversation between the clerk and this woman, that, you know, she was a bartender at, you know, a place close by. And, you know, I just said to her, you know, eventually I said, hey, you know, let me just take care of this. And this will be, you know, something I'd like to do just today. And as it turned out at that moment, the credit card worked, so I didn't have to pay for, but I was thinking of Matt's book. And then when she went through the line, I started talking to the clerk and he said, that was nice of you. And then I talked about Matt's book. And I said, you should really read this book. And it just happened yesterday at a coincident. And I think if people have that kind of mindset, you know, and, you know, Jay, if I may talk about you for a second, I mean, you've created this wonderful video platform that a lot of people use in order to get out much deeper meaning in life, which is, I think in ways that really kind to act on your, on your behalf. So that's another example I would use. It's not a historical example, it's just a Jay Mensch Fidel example. You know, to hear Carl talk about that, Matt, it raises another issue. And that is the issue of opportunism. Maybe that's the wrong word, but seeing, looking for opportunities. So the lady with the vase, she was looking for a way to help her friend. And nobody would have thought of that. That's a, you know, a creative thing to do. She was focused on finding something to express her kindness and her feeling about her friend. And so I think that the individual who is kind is usually looking for opportunities. Do you agree? I do agree. And it would be, even though that wasn't the dynamic of this book, it would be interesting to hear this woman, I believe her name is Sonia, write her story about this, not in the point that she's bragging about it. But what it did for her, because that could encourage giving also and how she must have felt when, you know, her, her neighbor, they weren't close friends, recovered, went into remission, how that must have felt that she played at least a small part in that, that must feel wonderful for her. You know, not necessarily about the recognition, but well, recognition, recognizing an opportunity was there to help someone. So I agree with you. Do we already, do we always know the opportunities that are presented? No, but maybe if we try to slow down at times from our busy life and just lend a hand to someone, it may be just that simple. I want to ask a cultural question, if you don't mind. You know, Carl and you and me, we all come from the Jewish culture. And the Jewish culture is really, really strong, whether you practice or not, whether you even remember life at home with your parents or not. And so the question I put to you is how much of this phenomenon that you're writing about, how much of the motivation for this book that's written comes out of that culture? And what are the culture points? Yeah. And I think kindness cuts across all cultures and our religions. There's some variation of the golden rule, due on to others as we would like for them to do upon us. I might have butchered that, but you get the idea. To me, I do think about tikkun olam and acts of repairing the world. And another Jewish Hebrew cultural phrase, if you will, the idea of he nene, that here I am, but not in a braggadocious way. Not like Mighty Mouse here I am to save the day, but I'm here as you need me, if you need me. So I think it, I don't think I thought about that very consciously in creating the book, but I think that did influence the ideas in some ways. But I also want to add that it's not uniquely Jewish, but yes, my teachings and my experience within Judaism, I think, invisibly guided me in having the idea and trying to execute it. And they might guide you in other aspects of your life. So you mentioned before the show that you've been involved in editing and you know, literary endeavors, if you will, before this book. And I wonder what the experience was, you know, writing this book. It's always interesting to find a book with 85 stories. How do you organize that? How do you make them run consistent, parallel? How do you avoid duplication? And I'd just like you to explain to us your experience in writing the book. Yeah. So the experience was at first it came together very slowly. I had the germ of an idea, maybe March or April of 2020, the beginnings of this never-ending pandemic. The incident experience of being reunited with my ring was November 2020. And I was encouraged to try to compile a book of similar stories. But it didn't really get going for another year and a half or so. And it really took root around March of 2022. But so I knew I wanted the book to be at least 250 pages, no more than about 400. Ended up for what it's worth at 373 pages. I know that's a bit arbitrary. But I tried to lay it out in book form as I went along. But I tried not to force any category. So for instance, there's some stories about education, teachers, other mentors. There are stories about when we're helped during times of travel, whether it's fixing a flat tire, kind angels on the subway, even New York subway, figure whatever it might be. You know, other stories about neighbors, helping neighbors. But I tried not to force the categories. But I know I wanted to divide the stories in some way and have like a little reward for the readers. Okay, you read 11 and 12 stories. Let's take a break. And then I had a saying on the facing page of each section, another idea of quote. So I tried to, it's hard to describe, just give it a nice flow. But I can't really define what that flow is. Sometimes one story ended up leading to another somehow. A woman wrote about her dad's bucket list. And one of them was to try to go to every baseball stadium. So ties in with Eric's book too, Carl. He's a veteran and he was treated to free tickets with the daughter. In effect, thank you for your service. And that that ended up being followed not by design, but just by happenstance. Someone wrote a very humorous story. I don't want to give away the punchline titled thank you for your service, but it was in a very humorous vein. Yeah, I don't want to give that away. That's a funny story. But there are little coincidences like that. Or sometimes I had fun by placing people who I knew, knew one another, you know, their stories next to each other. Because I didn't want to force the categorization. How would you define your writing? How would you describe your writing, your style of writing, your style of prose, your style of writing, writing up these vignettes? Then if you have the book handy, it would be wonderful if you could open it to any page and give us a short paragraph to demonstrate the style of your writing. Oh, okay. Well, thanks for asking. This is my battered copy that I use for readings. And I collected autographs of those like Carl who wrote stories, but I was so happy to meet you in person. Let me see. You're putting me on the spot. No, I'm just kidding. I'll read just a little bit and feel free to cut me up. But I would say my style in general. I try to use humor as an in, as a writer and speaker, but then use that as a way, a technique to maybe go just a little bit deeper at times. And I consider myself an inspirational humorist. I don't. That's a great way of defining it. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I don't know if anyone else calls me that, but that's so a ring of kindness. I'll just read a little bit, but feel free to cut me off. But most of the stories are between 500 and 1000 words, but I didn't want to put a hard limit because there's some excellent stories that were three to 400 words, but then some that needed more backstory. What were the odds? The odds were stacked against me, so it helped that I wasn't really trying to succeed. Let me explain while providing just a little background. I've never been a big jewelry guy to put it mildly. Other than a couple of inexpensive watches over the years, perhaps five years worth, the only jewelry I've ever worn is my wedding band. In the 20 years I've been married, I've only taken off my wedding band to play sports or as required for certain medical procedures. In the previous eight months, as a result of losing some weight and washing my hands thoroughly a billion times a day, my ring had rolled off my finger several times, but usually it had done so in my bathroom where I could either hear or see it, except for a couple of weeks prior to the following events when my faithful, inanimate companion disappeared without a sound or a trace. Okay, that's good. That's good. That's enough. So I just kind of leaned into it and yeah. And I didn't want there to be a template for each story. I mean, I wanted to communicate kindness received or even kindness witnessed, by those not personally closely connected with at the time, but Carl's style might be different than mine and Wendy's different and Donna's a little bit different. So I wanted to preserve the voice of each of the kids. So you met in the first person just now, but most of them are in the third person? No, most are actually in the first person. Interesting. In fact, there's received three stories from high school students. And one of them wrote her story in the third person that might have been the only one in the book. And she did it quite skillfully referred to herself. I don't know the girl and it was about I won't do a justice, but that feeling of being in a big crowd, but feeling very, very alone. And then the stranger who simply kind of put her arm around her and comforted her where she was feeling a lot of self doubt. And she wrote in the third person I had asked, this is about you because I can't vet the stories really, but I want them these to be personal narratives. But she did it quite skillfully. And I can't wait to see what else she writes over the years because I thought it was beautifully done. Did you show them the stories before you publish each of the writers or yeah, I mean, we connected whether it was email, zoom or phone, just to kind of go over if any changes were to be made, so no one would be surprised. That's very kind of you. Just a comma here or there. I figured, yeah, it wasn't front page news. Oh, by the way, it's a kind of comma here. Yeah, there are a lot of 50 50 commas. But yeah, I didn't want there to be any surprises. I wanted people to be happy with how the book read in general, but I didn't want them to be surprised. Oh, why did you do that to my story? Because I really felt a great responsibility and appreciation. It is a great responsibility. Carl, we're out of time, Carl. And I always feel that this is an unfair question, but I'll ask it anyway. Can you please, for the best of your ability, summarize everything that Matt has said and imparted to us? Well, Matt has discussed the many vignettes that he collected, often in the first person. And each story, as Matt really eloquently said, much like the Eric Gray stories about baseball, can be read separately. And you can have deep meaning in all of them. And they're on a variety of topics. And as I said, introducing him, you know, this book is really an antidote to many of the things going on in our social and political world, because it makes you feel good after you've read just one of these lovely vignettes. So we're grateful to Matt for producing these many stories over 80 about kindness. Thank you, Carl. Thank you for introducing us to Matt. Thank you, Matt, for telling us about your book and your view of the world, you will. And let me say we need your book and we need your view of the world in order to escape, you know, the processes that we now see in our society. So it's a very positive contribution to the public conversation. Thank you so much. Thank you best so much. I appreciate it. I had fun. Aloha. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn, and donate to us at thinktechawaii.com. Mahalo.