 Okay, we are now recording. Okay. Hello everybody. Welcome to this November 8th meeting of the Amherst Energy and Climate Action Committee. We have some fun things to talk about today I hope. But the first thing on the agenda. Well first we have to figure out who's the note taker. Who's today's note taker. Who was it last time. It was Laura Drucker last time. Because Laura was near a computer so. Jesse would be next but I think Jesse has done it sometime recently so Jesse. I'm not sure who's turn it is so we skipped around last time because Laura was happened to be near a computer was easy for her to take notes. So who wants to do it this time any takers. Or should we just continue down the list. All right then Jesse would be the next person Jesse you okay with that. Of course, we'll pick up from where we were although I'm not I haven't been keeping track but it seems to me you've done it fairly recently. I thought I had but it's, it's quite all right. All right, thank you for being gracious about that. Okay so first thing is always to review and vote on the minutes, I can share them I have them up here. Are there any comments, any corrections. Bigger. Comments or corrections. I have a suggestion in this section that's summarizing what I presented the mass out of on report. And it'd be the second to last dash. That starts out roof suggested that the solar by locks that are how the time to encourage solar development on the parcels that are graded straight A's across six categories. We perhaps should mention that that's referring to the grading system in the do er solar technical potential of solar study. You are. I got it. That's where that grading system is presented so that that's what I was referring to in that comment like that right. It was, it was not in the Audubon report which is so that's why the label that. Good, good, good fix. Anything else. I like the very good. I know I left it in. I think that the towns that have had trouble getting it passed all seem to have the same problem of people inside. They didn't do their due diligence they didn't do it Jesse did, and Stephanie did and talk to people beforehand and make sure they had the factor on, you know, on board and that sort of thing that seems to be the one common denominator for the few towns that have not passed it. Many more have that haven't been so far as it's come up. According to the webinar today, it looked like only 20 communities had adopted the specialized code but and some of them being major cities, like, you know, Boston and Worcester, but I suspect that number is probably more now. It's a little higher there've been two or three in the last week and I don't think 20 includes us because I think it was 21 the week that we added our names to it so it's still in the mid 20s low to mid 20s. If assuming that you know zero carbon man be a or are counting correctly, but it is some big towns on that list. Yep. It's was more than 25% of population of the state the last time I checked. That was before Worcester. So it's probably more than that now. All right, so if there's no other comments to somebody want to. Can you close this out Lori so everyone's on screen. Thank you. I will move to accept the minutes with that slight edit. Looks like Dwayne has seconded. We need to. Did you say that verbally? I did. I second Steve Ruth's motion. I saw the hand in the mouth move, but I didn't actually hear you. We didn't hear you. Yeah. Okay. Just making sure. All right, then. The voice vote in no particular order Allison. Stain. Goldner. Yes. Breger. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Minutes are approved. Thank you. Cool. I thought you were raising your hand Jesse. It took me a minute to realize what was going on there. Official tally. Yeah. All right. So next we have one attendee and I believe public services. So let's see who's our attendee. Martha. Hi, Martha. Do you have anything for us today? No, thanks. Just hello. All right. So updates. We heard some of this last week, but why don't we go ahead and do updates next then. Dwayne. I can really only update on the solar. Bylaw working group. We have our. Anticipated final meeting tomorrow. Just for those who might be interested, 12 o'clock to three o'clock. Where we're going to try to, and the goal was to. Finalize our read through and approval. As a. Working group of the draft. Bylaw. And then review sort of the next steps, moving forward in terms of. Transmitting that. Bylaw to the, to the town. And how that all goes forward. Along with some other deliverables that are required. In our charge, which are. Pretty much put together and hats off to Stephanie and to. The, the, the, the. Christine best drop for their work on. Some of these deliverables. And the, and the drafting. Of the bylaw that we are all contributing to and reviewing. So that's, that's the, the goal. Of the meeting tomorrow. And hopefully report out next time that that's done. Next time that means there will be a draft for us to review. Is that correct? I defer to Stephanie maybe on that in terms of the process we will. As a commit by law. I mean, sorry, a working group. Come to a consensus and approval to move forward the draft. Exactly how it gets bundled up and then provided. To the town. So that's just the consensus that we have. So I think that is who we provided to. And then it becomes public, obviously, including this committee. And, and I'll defer to Stephanie on that process. Yeah, it's likely to be going to. It'll go to the council and likely be referred to the CRC and the CRC. It will also be referred to the planning board. And a sort of parallel track, it will go to some specific staff and department heads for review. Well, I probably will send it to all of the department heads actually. So it'll have an opportunity to be reviewed by department heads and comments would then funnel through the CRC. So it won't be coming back to the solar bylaw working group at this point. You know, it'll be taken that process will be taken over by a council committee. Subcommittee, well, the council and the subcommittee of the council. So what point does ecac have a close look and discuss and make comments. So my, I would say that the most appropriate time would be when it goes before the CRC. And when it gets referred to the planning board, you know, that might be a good time to provide comment because you're any edits that are going to happen at this point now. Other than what staff, you know, because when staff does theirs again, they will be forwarded to the council. Or to the CRC. So any comments at that point and it suggested edits will happen through that pathway. Okay, so it'll go to the council and be referred and that point it becomes public record, no doubt, because it was probably already. It already is going to be public record record as soon as we're done. Okay, so then then it'll go to the council, the council will funnel it to the CRC. But it sounds like we should at any point, once it has gone, once it gets referred to the CRC from the council, it sounds like that's when we should start looking at it. Yes, that's what I'm saying is like you want to, you know, at the point, you know, remember that we've just had an election, although we do have several incumbents but it might be a little while, you know, there's going to be new makeup of committees. So, you know, things, it might take a little while before they even start addressing, you know, addressing the solar bylaw. Like I would say, you know, earliest maybe February. Yeah, and that would be the earliest. But so you have time. The reason that you can't start reviewing it and putting ideas together. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You certainly can. But I mean, in keeping in mind that, you know, similar to the process now it will be going through edits and changes with each, you know, kind of review, although it won't be, I don't believe it will be as lengthy a process. The solar bylaw working group did a lot of editing. I don't anticipate it will be quite as long, but I don't, I don't know. Jesse. Sorry. I was going to actually ask Dwayne. You can think of a way to kind of curate the ECAC process so that we're not taking up time from the CRC kind of, we're not asking people to explore things that you guys have already thought about. I think, right, you see your groups already thought this through quite, quite a bit. I don't know if there's a way that you can help us be efficient with our time. I mean, we all read it and ask you our questions first and then you say, don't bother asking the CRC that's never going to happen or that kind of thing. I think, because they are going to be. I mean, I can do whatever logs. Yeah, exactly. And it's a pretty lengthy document. So, and there's a lot in there that's probably interesting but not worth spending too much time on and there's other parts that are probably more of interest. I mean, what I would be happy and sort of plan to do would be to provide some sort of framework and summary at an ECAC meeting. If called upon to provide, you know, sort of the context and the review of the working group and then sort of the main components of the bylaw. Some of our goals and objectives and limitations and what we heard from the legal counsel and so forth that sort of guide our guided our work and then, you know, give an overview of kind of the main sections and then maybe hone in a little bit on the sections that were were were were discussed in some detail by the working group and kind of where and how and why we settled where we did. And areas where there's there's only sort of one area where there was some some really differences of opinion I would say. And, and then help to answer questions or, or think about how ECAC might want to respond to this and and may comments on it. Okay, Steve. Steve was there for most of it to as a witness. I'm looking at the next steps and approval process document I think that was in the solar bylaw working group meeting packet for tomorrow, and it outlines those dates nicely, but ECAC is not mentioned at all in there. Are we going to get like a formal request from town council, or someone get to provide feedback and my answer is like, I hope we are asked, and a formal way to provide feedback. That would be pointed if we were not asked. Well, I don't I think you have been, you guys have all I mean Steve you've been at most of the meetings and I know you're, you sort of have. You've represented your own personal views and then sometimes those of the committee. So you all have been involved because you were involved in the assessment, you've been part of that that was in the charge. Right. So you have been part of it. If you want to, I think, I don't know that there will be sort of a formal coming to you. I don't need think it needs to be that formal, you've been weighing in as you've been going along. I would say that it will come, you know, you will have an opportunity and I would certainly encourage you all to have an opportunity to take a look, but I don't think it's going to be a formal asking because you are already part of the charge of the solar bylaw working group, you were referenced in that charge. So you've already had a formal kind of role if you will what I would hope is being being our committee I would hope that the town would turn to us and say here's the draft bylaw please give us your opinion on the draft bylaw. I know we've been involved in earlier stages and I've been involved as a citizen. That's different. I would like the town to recognize the importance of the ECAC and ask us to render an opinion and suggestions on the draft bylaw. If they don't ask us fast then why do we exist. Well, I don't I think that's Can I take a second. When we first, when they first put together the solar bylaw working group. We have requested two spots on the working group and got one. But that was where our input came from our input has been coming all along through Dwayne. So I'm not actually as concerned as you are Steve about not having a formal request, I think we should review it and we should write a memo if we feel we need to do that. But I don't feel like because we were explicitly included, even if it wasn't as much as we would have liked to have been. I feel like that we have been funneling, you know, Steve, you as a citizen and the citizen member of it and Dwayne as a member of it have been funneling ECACs. You know, thoughts on this through to the committee the whole time as part of the bylaw working group right so it would be nice I would agree you know I would not be. I would not be upset if somebody asked us but I wouldn't be particularly disappointed if they didn't only because we are in there. So, I have my hand up I guess I can go. I hear you Lori, I also agree with Steve. I think if we're an advisory committee we should be advised on things that are related to climate and that the council that may not have as much expertise on with that said this is a unique situation where they did form a working group that did include an ECAC member so I can see both sides but in general it feels like if we're meant to be an advisory committee we should be advising on things like this. And that's a larger in my mind that's a larger thing that I would hope we could figure out how to sort out. But I do think that particularly related maybe not to. I would like Jesse suggestion and I would second the idea that maybe Dwayne gives us a little bit of an overview when it when it's final and then I think we can decide at that point what input to give. But if any counselors are listening and want to ask our advice explicitly I would not be. I was thinking and appreciate that and I, you know, obviously I was, to some extent representing ECAC but I, you know, my role there was not necessary to try to represent our collective opinions which I cannot do. And so, while it was had some presence of ECAC it was not, you know, they should not suspect or anticipate that the full bylaw has been reviewed and agreed upon by ECAC in any way I don't think that was the intent. I think the issue maybe from that Stephanie is that you know we're a volunteer commission advisory committee, and not so much in the normal chain of commands of from providing comments and so forth. I think, I think to the extent, obviously, we can and we probably want to as ECAC provide some comments to the town council, whether asked or not and I think most likely will want to do that. If there was a desire to, you know, have more of a formal request and sort of have that on the record and then respond to that with our comments. I think that sounds good. And some advantages to that I think it would be a matter of working, you know, and maybe ECAC and either individually or we can represent if we all agree we can rep we can ask our local council, counselors to make, you know, provide as the council to make that request. And I guess when the CRC is formed, I mean part of this is also that the CRC, we don't know what the makeup of that group is going to be yet. And I, I, I guess my feeling is, and I, and I certainly hear you, Steve and Laura about weighing in, I just, I wouldn't want it always to have to be a formal invitation I would hope that as things happen in town, I think all are going to weigh in, you know, and not wait for the invitation but just make yourselves vocal and known right so, and I hear you I just like, that's why that's why you were written into the charge. Right. You know, the. Yeah, I mean, I think that was part of it. Do we always know what the council's talking up like proactive versus react. I think that's the question in both of them like, it'd be helpful to have it come on both sides and then we, you know, I think that way. I hear you, I hear you, I just, again, I think it's just like when the CRC finally convenes. It's the time that, you know, I could reach out and get, you know, at the point that it gets refer, it gets sent to the planning board, maybe, I mean, but there, you know, it's getting referred to planning board is because they're the entity that reviews this legislation. You're right. So, that's part of why it officially goes to them. I'll just open and say to I also philosophically, I think I agree and politically I agree. That's the thing if we're going to spend time on anything on this topic we should spend time on reviewing the bylaw. And so when the CRC does reconvene as a new group. I think that's a concise, clear, well thought through unanimous ECAC opinion to give them, I think that's more important than whether they ask us or not, though I do appreciate very much that that notion. We, you know, I would, I would prefer to be on the list with the CRC and the planning board and the ECAC. I think that's good. I think we're going to be very receptive to whatever we put out. And with limited time. I'd rather think about the words and the bylaw and whether I was asked to think about them. Yeah, you'll get the draft that go that this final solo bylaw working group draft. As soon as it's done, I mean, on my agenda is to put it in your next packet, you know, so when it's done, it'll be in your meeting packet and you can go from there with that draft. That's what I would recommend. Okay, so let's put on the agenda next time then to start this conversation with an overview from Dwayne assuming assuming the final version from the committee is in or the draft version from the committee from the solar bylaw working group is in our packet. Dwayne will you give us a overview, exactly as you described next time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not sure when the next one is because of Thanksgiving, but yeah, the next meeting is scheduled to be the Wednesday right in front of Thanksgiving. Oh, oh, I won't do it then. What do we do do we do do we just skip that meeting then or do we would recommend it. I do that. Then our next meeting is not until December. So that's probably okay as long as we dive right in right because then we're going to not have a lot of chance. So the new board I assume goes in the new committee Council goes in in January one or something like that. So the new planning board actually might be December. It might be December actually I'm not sure I have to double check. If it's December I wonder if we shouldn't offset our meetings just bring them forward a week to the week after Thanksgiving if we if we job them by. Our next scheduled meeting is December 6. I, I mean, what's your concern with when the Council convenes because I guess that's okay. It's not going to happen. Nothing is going to happen for a while. It's going to take them time. And I don't even know when they'll get to the bylaw. I'll head a little because it always gets crazy around the break right so we'll have a meeting on December 6 we'll have another one around December 20th then is that right. Yeah, the 20th would be the next one. Then we probably have one right after New Year's and then I'm gone for two weeks. And that's about the time we're going to want to be formulating the response so I'll miss at least one meeting in January I think just one meeting in January. So sometime by early February we want to make sure we have a response right that's sort of what we're aiming for here. Yeah and again there's no guarantee that they're even, you know, how they're even going to be entertaining. That is an item, but just it doesn't matter better for you to be prepared and have a goal. So let's have that as a goal then to have something done in January or early February in the way of either just a memo saying Jesus is great we support it or specific suggestions or something so that ECAC's collective voices heard in this process. Okay. Okay. All right. I think I'm next on the agenda is that right. Is there anything else on the solar bylaw working group? Go on. On the solar update. I don't have much with heat pumps I think we're still waiting waiting for the RFP. I'm still continuing I'm just finishing I still haven't finished the last. I'm taking his heat pump coach training I finished three of the four units the fourth unit they rescheduled to a time I couldn't make so I'm still waiting last time I looked they hadn't posted it yet as soon as they post the materials, and I have time I will do that last training. And will officially be a heat pump coach or electrification coach. But the RFP on heat pumps is what this update is supposed to be about and I don't think we have much there yet right Stephanie we're still waiting. Yeah, I'll cover that in my updates. Okay, so then let's let's talk about that later. Going on then. Okay, I have a community climate bank update. Okay, I just make it because I think it fits into the heat pump thing. And Stephanie you're probably aware but messy seated come out with a request for information. With regard to neighborhood electrification. Oh yeah. Which I think normally would involve heat pump be them air sourced or ground sourced heat pumps at a neighborhood level. I haven't dug into a detailed it's not a request for proposal but it's a request for information. And can kind of help guide where messy see goes with regard to this program that they're probably put some funding behind. So I thought I just mentioned that for anyone individually or or collectively that we want to take a look at or if the town wants to. Yeah. I saw that doing and I actually clicked on the link and started started to try to fill it out and realize it was asking about community stuff that I didn't really know so Stephanie that seems to me something that maybe maybe you should fill out or two of us should fill out or something like that. But it seems like something it's too good to pass up right that they're asking for input on street by street electrification right replacing wholesale replacement of gas pipelines with pumps and electrification. Yeah that and that was one of the limitations it seemed like and I'm not sure if it's because the gas companies are paying for it or something but it seemed to be focused on replacing you know street by street or neighborhood level for gas. It struck me as being you know why not do this for oil heated streets to that even seems more important in some ways but you know obviously we don't have new gas enamors but we have plenty of gas in parts of town I would I would imagine. Did you see that if not all forward it right now. Did you see that Stephanie. I think I did and I think I opened it quickly but didn't do a dive so. Oh, I can send it again to everyone I just got I got it through someone named Sally pick at Crocker.com. Yeah I know Sally. I don't think I got it directly from Massey oh no it's oh no it came from zero carbon mass so I did get it directly. or through her she went through her to zero carbon mass. So I can I can send copies of that to everyone to. All right. But Stephanie maybe that's something for us to talk about with me meet. Maybe we can if you haven't already done it by then maybe I can help with that. Yep. Yeah. And I don't yeah I don't know. We'll we'll just talk. Later. Thank you for that. I'd forgotten all about that. Okay. So let's see. Next thing on the agenda was a community climate bank update so the saga continues so I put in a call to more Healy's office about two weeks ago now I guess it was to try to find out. What the heck the climate bank is because if you look it up online. All links lead to this webinar given by more Healy announcing the new climate climate bank and that's pretty much all you can find. So generic forms from mass housing and this sort of thing to fill out for information but it's not for information about the climate bank it's just for information. So I called the governor's office to ask who do I call and I got sent around in a big circle back to mass housing, but they gave me one other contact. Well one of them was with the some some office of climate response and mitigation or something like that it had a fancy name sounded like some new office that she put in place, and the phone number sent me right back to the governor's office again. So, but they gave me one other number which was for mass development and I called that and got a person by the name of Connor glass sheen. After a couple of past got passed around a little bit who didn't know anything about the climate bank but he was in charge of the pace program and knew all about that and so I said oh well we're interested in that too because we understand that it's still being renovated that it's still under under rules are still being changed he said, Oh no no we fixed all the rules now and we have we're having a webinar about it in about a half hour. And that's when I sent I sent a little broadcast out to ecac just to see if anybody could watch the webinar I don't I think Stephanie made the last 25 minutes of it and hopefully they'll record it so we can watch it. But I did get a number for somebody number in an email somebody who is supposed to know about the, the climate bank. So, I'm still trying to figure out if there is a program if there's a they are there. As far as I can tell so far there there isn't but maybe something is in the work so I'll keep following that up and Laura when I do I'll write a little memo, I hope to get an answer in the next few days. I'll keep following that thread seeing what I can find. And I do want to get back to the council but as pointed out the council is changing now anyway so there's no real hurry. But we should clarify what we meant by climate bank considering it turns out we didn't actually quite know yet either. So. All right, and that's where that is. So that's my update there I don't have anything more solid than that to say. Laura, go ahead. Yeah, so. Again, sorry that I didn't follow this thread when we were writing the report because I would have never suggested that we include all to set up a climate bank that was not my intention of sharing that article. I also don't think there's no there there, although I understand your frustration. The climate chief did just publish October 25th a very detailed report on sort of the whole of state strategy for climate. I can't say I've been able to read it all yet but there does there are several mentions of the climate big in here. And maybe I can just share my screen quickly and show this one. Part. Yeah, here we go. So, you know, I think this is something we should probably review and see what's irrelevant to us this whole document. But here you go, like this is what I was trying to get at kind of. And we really need to make sure that we're not leaving any money on the table with all federal tax credits and direct payments that are going to be available through the inflation reduction act. And so this, you know, they're talking about this clearinghouse. The climate bank, etc, etc. So I don't think they figured out the full mechanism yet, which is clear from your conversations Lori. But I think the point being, if we do want to edit that goal, I think the goal we want to make is that we want to make sure the town of Amherst is participating as fully as possible in the funding opportunities. The residents of Amherst, right? Are participating as fully as possible in all of the funding opportunities, which as it says are unlimited to make sure that we are maximizing clean energy development. So that's, I think more the point I would make to the council is not specifically the green bank, but rather, you know, the town manager giving a town manager goals specific to that. And I agree with you, I just want to make sure if you know I want to make sure I understand follow up on the climate bank specifically since they asked about it, but I agree. I don't think you need to do all that work I think we send them the articles about the climate bank. Well but I think it's good for us to know because if there is money there I mean I'm still following this thread there there is apparently somebody who knows about this so it would not be nice to know what they know, you know, is there is money available how do we access it. That's all, you know, if we're not, we're talking about not leaving money on the table, and Stephanie and then Dwayne. Yeah I think I've been, I've said this before, but with all of the IRA funding, I think, you know, we keep getting told there's money there's money, there's money. And there's been no, no clear path, no, no understanding of when when it's coming, how it's coming, and it's not just us. Our colleagues and other communities are spinning as well like where who is going to get us this information so from my part, I would appreciate additional eyes on knowing when these things are happening because I'm not clear I'm always getting information and mostly I've been feeling like, I've been, it's very anxiety inducing I have to tell you, because you feel like am I missing something did I just miss something. And, you know, and I feel like there's just been no real sort of clearing house of, here's the place you go to find the information, which is really what we need. So anyway, that's just to say that I really appreciate all your additional eyes and yes please feel free to send things to me. Hang on a moment I'm sorry my dog is disassembling my laundry I have to go pull him out of the laundry basket I'll be right back. My hand out because I just had to send comment Stephanie had that I strongly believe there is a there there, it just not there yet. We're saying we're seeing the same thing in our industry as well it's like green this this this I've yet to see a single dime manifest. But I wouldn't give as well. I mean I think we can reiterate that to the town council and the town manager, you know. But there's also things like the projects we've just finished like the like the North Library, like, making sure that if there's extra credits available we should be getting those. Maybe we should make a point of just asking, you know what what big projects are going on in the town right now and can we get somebody to because I don't know anything about the library project for example I know that's been a big deal in the town I have not been tracking that at all. Maybe we should just have somebody report on what's going on there and to the extent we can start try to advise them on where they might look for money for, you know, green upgrades green. I have no clue about how that's working right. I will say with the live with the, well, at least with the school project, and I think it's really true with the library to that they have been pretty connected and, you know, with funding opportunities, at least the school I know. And I think that's true for the library as well but I'm not 100% on that but I think they've had some people sort of working with them and advising them to. I think that's true for the Jones library and the school I think for the fourth library. We to go back, we need to go back. Yeah, and double check and probably the same for this, the solar at the golf course. Because I feel like there's been some additional credits. What was the other library the. The North Amherst library. Does it have a name I think I heard just call it something. North Amherst. Yeah, the solar at the golf course is not. It's a third party. And also we're not. We're not an off taker at all for the electricity at that site. So just as an FYI. I don't know if it really is to worry about, but the North Amherst library, if there's a project coming up there, maybe we should. Is there somebody I can contact already done. Like it's almost about open, but had a lot of clean energy. Not solar, I don't think, but you know, it has, I think it's a heat pump run facility. I think that we can go back and claim money on that project, but since it's, it's done, like I don't think there's a developer there that we can like ping to say, go figure this out, but maybe I'm wrong. But yeah, looking back, I think we need to figure out like looking back if we could, if there's money that we could can apply for. Yeah. If there's a tax credit or something they're eligible for. Okay. So somebody we should ask to come talk about that project or how do we, how do we get started doing something like that. I don't think there's anything for us to do. I just think the town needs to be aware, which they are because Stephanie is, but like, I think being short sighted without having a financial director, you know, I think it makes a difference. Sorry, yes, I was going to say, if Sean Mangano were here, he'd, he'd be there. So, I'm missing him more and more every day. So there may not be much we can do about that one way or the other. Is there a role for ecac there or not sounds like sounds like no. I mean, I just, you know, I don't know. I mean, if there's potential funding opportunities, I, you know, I don't know sometimes projects. I mean, even with, you know, some of the, that draft policy that Jeremiah and I put together, I think I reported out to you all that, you know, there was a boiler replacement that happened. It was a small one. It was just like a little pump station. But, you know, again, it was something that happened. And even after we internally said, you know, created this policy sent it out to everyone. So I think things do slip through the cracks and how to stay wholly on top of that. I mean, we struggle with it here internally. So as a committee, I think that's going to be even harder, but open and willing to anything. So. Yeah, and that's why I'm suggesting it as a town manager goal because then the town manager needs to report on progress towards it and that progress may just be that nobody's telling us where the money is so we can't figure it out yet and that's that may be the progress, but the idea of having it as a goal means that hopefully it will. I think a better chance of maybe not slipping through the cracks, but I don't know my, my brilliant idea is that I think like the, like the surrounding town should hire a contractor whose job is just to like look at all the projects we've done over the past. However, whenever the IRAs got grandfathered in and like make sure there's no money sitting on the table that we could get, but just apply for because we've already. Yeah. But again, like two points and Stephanie's point and Jesse's like I think we're still a little premature for some of that. Okay, so if there's nothing else on this topic. So let's go on to the next which is interesting so this is the next topic on the list is the, you know, what can we do to help support solar in the built environment. We just started talking last time about maybe running a webinar series like we did for the pumps and EVs and you know we did a bunch of different things last year that were pretty well received and that got a few hundred. 200 views on YouTube I think on the town YouTube channel, each, or a couple hundred. So I was thinking, you know, is it, is it time to do another series like that in the way of outreach around solar in the built environment. And if so, what do we want to do and who's going to take responsibility for finding someone to give a webinar and one idea was to have folks who have solar of course on their house already do a panel discussion. I've bought into a solar farm or you know whatever. And another idea is just to get the options out there because I know a lot of us including me are pretty confused about what the options are. And to somehow work in this problem of trees getting taken down to put solar in. There was a suggestion of a research project last time that I'm seriously considering of taking up with some undergrads next year if no one else does. And to figure out, you know, how just how many trees are being taken out to put in solar on people's houses and whether or not it's really a good trade, or how it affects the efficacy of the solar and removing carbon ideas questions. When you say built environment are you thinking sort of residential scale or are you thinking more commercial scale. Either or I think I think it's separate audiences but as a homeowner I'd sure like to know what I can do in the way what my options are but I think that you know we talk about the built environment it's a little funny right because we don't want to want to also include people who don't have a roof they can put solar on but somehow want to be involved in solar. So maybe built environment isn't quite the right way to think of it but how homeowners and business owners can participate in a way that makes sense. Yeah, homeowners and business owners are people who homeowners business owners also renters people who want to be involved somehow in solar. Yeah, I mean if it's a, if it's not on, if it's not on your roof, and you're talking more about an off taking agreement that that often gets into building solar in the not built environment. If we stay away from that though how do we. Yeah, you're right and I haven't thought about that till just now right but if we just talk about the built environment and we're talking about homeowners and we're excluding a large fraction of our. I mean one thing is commercial it's churches it's nonprofits I mean there's a lot. It's what warehouses it's stores. Yeah, I can last. Yeah. I mean one thing. I'm not sure if we can do it but maybe there's a student we can find to do it. Or maybe you know Stephanie's done some of this for the municipal built environment. But they're municipally owned, municipally owned buildings. But obviously there's a lot more. But if you take out the colleges and the university, because they do their own thing. You know, they're there could you know we could think about finding a student project. Just itemize it wouldn't be that you know there's not it's not that big of a town in terms of commercial buildings to itemize sort of what the what the what the prospects are for solar on the non residential built environment. Okay, so on the non residential the municipal and commercials that what you're thinking, or just commercial. Well, I think Stephanie has a good handle on the municipal. Okay, already. Okay, so that's how we would include not homeowners people who are interested just generally in the topic. Okay, that that makes sense. And then we can avoid the sometimes such a subject of, you know, buying into large rays that would have to be built somewhere. I guess I mean there's always for the commercial. And I would include in that sort of nonprofits and faith organizations and so forth. I'm not sure if there's a good way to reach out to them in some way that's not that's an overly time consuming. You know if we did if we did some sort of study then we would want to outreach it to people who know need to hear about it. I guess I was thinking along the lines of there's four residents on how to take advantage of solar and maybe there's two or three different webinars. One could be for our homeowners, a webinar on a session on how to get solar on your rooftop what are the options. Another could be for people who aren't homeowners who don't have their own roof, and that could be how do you get involved with community solar. And perhaps a third might be more targeted towards the business the small businesses and nonprofits like churches. Here's how you can get involved in solar either on your roofs or through community solar. There'd be like three different sessions, each fairly specific to the needs of that that group of people. I like that idea. Understanding that the non homeowners one is not really going to be just about the built environment. But I do think I like that idea. It's not like we're advocating for putting community solar in a particular place it's just there are these projects going in what does it mean to get involved how does it, you know what what benefits do you get. What sort of projects are there out there that you might or might not be interested in. What were the three that nonprofits homeowners was the third sorry. Community solar. But homeowners who have a roof that they could potentially put it on residents who would don't have a roof that would go that are interested in the community solar route and then nonprofits and local businesses. Yeah. And I think we could do some outreach to the business community I mean I could use what contacts I have to, you know, bring a couple of couple of different organizations and I'm sure everybody here has some contact with a church group or a nonprofit group that might be interested. Yeah, and just on that. I mean, when I think about businesses maybe the faith organizations are different but most businesses. I'm just thinking about in town. They don't own their buildings. So maybe it's, you know, for those type of buildings, maybe it's more the building owner audience is what we might might want to reach out to in a webinar or direct contact. Yeah, it's good point. Is it allowed that we could have someone from a solar company. Come and give the ins and outs for residents who have rooftops, because they're the ones that are going to know all the details. And, and the time frames and the incentives and that sort of thing. Yeah, we did that with heat pumps right. And we had, and we just, we had Scott turn at came with somebody else I think and gave a talk that wasn't focused on his business but just focused on heat pumps and, you know, installing them and choices and that sort of thing and I think we could easily do that we could ask someone from from PV squared or, or somewhere else. Yeah, they just can't be promoting their business but they can certainly come and talk generally about the topic. I just want to check the question of who we ask, and when, and who's going to take responsibility. I'd love to see one person take responsibility for one each of three webinars for example. Each of one of three webinars. That makes sense. I have no problem reaching out to Northeast solar, who put our array and it's not a rooftop it's a tracker, because we have, we have a big piece of property. And they've been very responsive. I have no problem reaching out to them. I'm not particularly advocating them I know some people like PV square or other places but I'm happy to reach out to them. So, and, okay, you know and it's a different configuration to actually have a tracker that, that, you know, moves. It would be interesting to have somebody talk about you know the ins and outs of which houses are good candidates, which houses are going to be not so good you know what type of what type of array, different types of arrays different. It would be very interesting to hear that from somebody who knows the business is there somebody at Northeast solar you know who is particularly knowledgeable Don. Well, I mean I know various pieces I know people who are on the sales side and I know the president to the company and I know people who are on the technical side was a tree fell and knocked his office. With the heat pump series in the EV series that was taken mostly from people that we'd seen give talks elsewhere or somebody new is there is anybody seen a Lori before you go on with Northeast solar when we did our Solaris program back in 2012. You are our chosen provider for the program. So they know Amherst, and I also know Greg Garrison and, you know, I would also be happy to give Greg a call I've called on him for several things in the past. And he's usually pretty responsive so I mean, not to take that away from you Don but I'm happy to ask Greg he's he's amazingly informative he's a very interesting wonderful speaker to he's very, he's very good speaker. So that's what I'm looking for. Okay, so Greg Garrison is at Northeast solar. Northeast solar. Yeah, okay and I can read to him. Yeah, that would be great so Stephanie if you would do that. And you know let's let's maybe make a date for it that'll be the that'll be the one on on homeowners rooftop solar. And the Northeast solar does do commercial to you know small commercial so and great I know Greg to he'd be wonderful on that too. So, maybe weeks, or maybe divide one evening up into two, rather than having him come twice. Yeah, his time is valuable I'm sure so maybe just, if it's an hour have him do 20 minutes on one 20 on another. Yep, and give him give him the option I don't know how long he's going to want to speak on either of these right so I would say if you want and half hour for each or 20 minutes for each that's fine if you'd rather do it in two separate sessions that's fine. But yeah, reach out to him that kills two birds with one stone and it sounds like he's a known quantity so. And you may ask, ask his advice I mean a lot of a lot of the options are the similar are similar. In terms of whether you're a homeowner or a building owner, or a business or a business owner in terms of, you know, the basic approaches and tax you know the tax credits will be similar. At least the federal tax credits will be similar. So, you know, I'm not sure maybe it makes sense to weave them together in one one one presentation I sort of leave that up to him at some extent. Okay so solar options for homeowners and businesses. And also credits and financing that are available if he knows about that and great. Maybe they've even done some egg. Is that too far out of the built environment. Say that again. I think they've maybe done some egg integrated projects, or can we call that the built environment. I'm not sure about the use but they've probably done stuff on like Barnes and so forth. Maybe you want to save that for a separate topic. Like, I thought the program that you pulled together doing for the solo by law working group was wonderful. That was specifically on agrivoltaics. So maybe a sort of more condensed version of that somehow. No northeast solar did they do they do some work with nonprofits and because I know they put some solar up on the Brookfield farm. Buildings or barn because I'm on the board there and I remember that so they're good. They're a good choice. You're right Stephanie they're definitely a good choice. I think homeowners businesses and nonprofits. So anything. So that's what we want to ask him then Stephanie if you would talk about options for homeowners and businesses and nonprofits and also about credits and financing and we'll save the ag integrated and dual use stuff maybe for Dwayne. I think just another, or another audience another webinar that we could think of other people. And I think maybe to as far as getting more people to come. If it's maybe pitched a little bit less as a lecture series and more of a kind of car talk ask q amp a. I think people like that. I think that's fun. I think people learn from other people's good questions like really dead. Bring your questions bring your rooftop. Right so we leave a lot of time a lot of time so I'd rather have shorter seminars with a lot of time for questions. So that's why I say when we talked when you talk to Greg Stephanie if he thinks that this is going to go an hour. I'm going to ask him if he'd be willing to do to so there's plenty of time for q amp a and if he can't quite hack that you know what we'll just see what he's willing to do. I might jump in and say, I don't think it's a good idea to let someone talk for an hour straight. Even if he wants to, that's, I'm going to know. Okay. Okay, so let's see what can you do and how about half an hour, what can you do in half an hour and the other half hours for q amp a. And we'll, you know, find out what he's willing to do I think is the important thing and then we'll. Once we find out what he's willing to do and whether he is willing to do one or two sessions, we'll figure out what else we need so why don't we start there Stephanie. I got it. Okay. And Dwayne I think it might be nice if you did your your aggregated projects talk sometime for, you know, for audience in town, if you did it for the solar but if you already have one. I didn't do that I mean we organize that but we had some speakers. I see, I see, I see. Yeah. And I try and I'm trying to remember if exact way to look at them again. Those recordings I believe are so I'm not sure if we would need to re ask them or just okay probably not advertise that we're going to show them and maybe have a cute we have a discussion about them at some future meeting. It was long. I mean that were that separate separate session was long. It was a few hours. So I, you couldn't do that. You couldn't replicate that I'm just saying that there were very interesting speakers and maybe finding a way, someone who could maybe consolidate some of that information in a way that might be usable might be helpful. How about, how about we get a bit of a summary but then try to find a few people to do a Q&A. Again, just, you know, short summary and then a panel of people to ask questions. I mean we could, I don't not sure about video editing but we could potentially edit those videos into something that would be, you know, half an hour summary of them and then ask you to that, you know, if we could ask Jake Marley. And was it Jesse Robertson DuBois that was the other speaker I can try to remember from Blue Wave. I don't remember. I don't have it off the top of my head. But, um, Jake's, Jake's one person that would, I'd be very comfortable asking he's local. And very involved with this. All right. But let's, let's, let's get through this first one first. Okay, let's figure out the first one. And as soon as, but I don't want to put this off too long because I want to be able to do, you know, one every month or something like that say for January, February, March, something like that. Right. Is that does it sound like a reasonable timeline? Wait till after the holidays and then just hit one a month for a couple. Yesterday I met a couple of people who are on the Hadley Energy Commission, kind of our counterpart. And so for the ag related one it might be interesting to combine with them, because I think there's probably a smaller number of people interested in the ag that actually so maybe combining an event with their support and sponsorship would reach more more folks. Yep. Yeah. If we can find a few other local. Yep. From elsewhere. Yep. The second one might be the community solar because I think there'd be a lot of town residents interested how can I take advantage of solar if I'm a renter, or if my roof's not suitable. The answer is community solar. And I imagine that would be representatives from community solar companies that would be happy to come in and do a similar sort of like, here's how you could, here's how you get into community solar. There were some in your solar forum, Dwayne, that. Yeah, there's nuances I think we would want to cover there in terms of what type of community solar. What are the options of the different types of community solar and how do you, how do you, how do you navigate into the type of community solar that your, that fits your needs best. Yep. Okay, so I think what I'm hearing here is ultimately, we've got Stephanie is going to reach out around to Greg about homeowners and businesses see how much we can do there and nonprofits. Steve, if you can reach out to your contacts about maybe a community solar. I don't have any but I could Google. Yeah, does anyone have any suggestions for people to talk to about community solar, who aren't don't, who aren't going to. I mean, just, I mean, the other thing about community solar is that, you know, it's not that hard. I mean, it could use a webinar to, you know, how do you go find a community share solar project and sign up to be an off taker. It takes, you know, it's not. You can do it and so forth. But there's also a group. There's a, I suspect there's some interest of community members in Amherst to think about developing their, their own community shared solar project and the, they would want to, you know, get 100 people together to think about a community shared solar project for them for Amherst, that they would, you know, want to have some ability to oversee and manage and control and direct and so forth and have the arrangement and potential ownership, or direct off takers to low income or different populations and so forth. So that's, you know, that's another opportunity is to, you know, see, you know, we're not community organizers in the ECAC but we could facilitate, potentially facilitate, or at least inform folks that there's an opportunity to, for community members to come together on their own and some entities to work with to develop a smaller project, a community shared solar project that they might want to see having their own community, take ownership stake in, work with a developer, find a site that is suitable and so forth. So we have to, yeah, so that's something that local energy advocates is also I know interested in, and the whole CCA thing part of that down the line is apparently to try to develop our own local energy sources. I'm just trying a little on some of the more controversial stuff though about, you know, where you're going to site this. How are you going to do this? Well, if you sign up for a community shared solar project now it's going to be a four megawatt project in the woods somewhere. Yeah, yeah. Most, many of them, most of them probably. Maybe we can find a better way to do that. Well, that's organizing your own. Yeah, and working, you know, working with a business to put on their roof. And working with with the town to put on the high school. And so it is, it is an interesting idea to specifically try to facilitate or bring the knowledge into the town of how to create community solar, not in the woods. And we're treading on new territory. It's, it's, it's not the, it's not the easy way to go about it, but it's, it's, it's, I think what there's some interest in. Yeah, that would be really interesting. I can think of a lot of groups that are interested in this so how do we do this how do we find the right topics and people to talk about them. I would add not not in terms of who the people are but in terms of how do you identify the land that you would wish to build a solar on that's going to be an interesting topic but I would suggest that you could use the the technical potential study where they have rated those lands and look for those straight A parcels or parcels with a and B. That have already been rated as suitable for solar. And that in some cases that might be forested land and some cases that would be other type of land but it uses a well established criteria system to weigh the different types of lands and ecosystem services and all that. And there's quite a bit of acreage and Amherst and other communities that get that straight A rating. But it depends on the scale and maybe it has to wait to see how much interest there is if you're, you know, a four megawatt project, and just someone once told me that you need about four megawatt to do a substantial community shared solar project. That would be about 400 homes. It might be a lot and doesn't have to be all homes that could be businesses obviously to it could be the town can actually be an off taker for half of it, or up to get to two larger entities to take half of it to be to get the incentive from the state to be community shared solar. But you know but but at the same time it could be 100 kilowatt 100 kilowatt system or 200 kilowatt system and just start out with like, you know, 20 families or something or 20 households. You can get somebody from UMass from the business school who might be interested in leading an effort like this, somebody with know how of how to put together a project right and interest in doing that sort of thing. Yes and no, I would say I am collaborating in this area of it with Mila Mila Sherman. I was thinking at Eisenberg. Though we haven't really had a actual project to work on yet, but some proposals. I have a colleague who's doing this type of project in Brooklyn, who, who maybe could speak to it. I got to look and see specifically what they're doing but my understanding is a part of his businesses consulting for community solar in urban areas, not, not rural areas. I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll reach out to one person. Great Jesse. Our pre pre discuss Greg Garrison has great interest in this area, but also some failed failed attempts, which has been very frustrating in terms of building business models and legal structures for local ownership. I think things are changing a bit at the state and the eye and the IRA. So much money available and think you think with all the incentives available right now that this would be the time to do it. Okay, well let's let's keep we have some individual assignments here people to reach out to folks Jesse is going to reach out and Stephanie is going to reach out and is anyone else going to actually reach out at this point. We're going to wait for, I think we're going to wait for. So let's wait to see what Greg is willing to do from Stephanie and what Jesse comes back with and then we'll continue this discussion in four weeks when we come back after Thanksgiving. So this should stay on the schedule and hopefully we'll have something, like I say January February March something like that. I think this is, I think this is great I think this is certainly very interesting to me I've been confused about all this for a long time every time I look into it I end up doing nothing. So. All right, what's next I think we're into updates yes, anything out going back to the discussion staff updates, you want to go ahead, Stephanie. Sure, so at the last meeting. We had discussed how a lot of times the carp gets referenced as being adopted by the town council and I was saying that that language. I don't think that they actually adopted it so I went back and I did my deep dive on their minutes. And so what happened I'm just going to give you a little bit of a timeline and then what the actual votes were on. So on the 21st was when of June 21 of 2021 was when Laura Drucker and I presented the carp to the council. And there was a motion made not to adopt the document. The motion was made to direct the town manager to present a plant implement the roadmap. And so that motion actually failed. And that was the only motion there was a lot of discussion after it, but there was basically nothing happened and they just said we'll bring this back to a future meeting. And then it came back to the council on November, I'm sorry, September 27 of 2021. We basically got sort of brought into the town manager goals. So what was actually voted on was first to acknowledge receipt of the carp. So they didn't adopt it. They didn't approve it. They didn't accept it. It's important because people keep using this as a document that the council has, you know, said this is our plan forward, and it wasn't. It was acknowledged receipt. So that is something very, very different. And so I just wanted to make a point of noting that and that was voted 12, zero. So, then what was also voted at that same meeting on the 27th was to put this under the town manager goals that the town manager would update the council quarterly. Starting achieving the climate action goals adopted by the council in 2019. Those goals were the 2025 25% reduction, the 50% reduction by 2030 and carbon neutrality by 2050. So it's not about specifically the carp. It's about how are we meeting those goals. So the carp is a tool and part of that, but it's not. They didn't say like we are full scale saying we want to do everything in this climate action adaptation and resilience plan and this is not uncommon. I just want to be clear that it's not like they didn't like our plan and they didn't want to do it. They don't do this with other plans. In fact, even the emergency response plan is a final draft. It's not like it wasn't. It wasn't like approved. It was just basically like accepted. So it's a weird, I know I really struggled when I started realizing that that's what happens that, you know, even the select board did the same thing. They, they don't necessarily approve things because they don't know if they're going to want to fully 100% support everything that's in the plan. So I'm just letting you know that that so that is hopefully to solve that for that mystery for everyone around the language. And just in case it comes up that to be careful when we're talking about the carp, it was, it was received by the council. And that's really kind of it. And then, you know, the goals are the things that the town is working to address that the council adopted in 2019. Yeah. Okay, thank you for clarifying that's a little bit disappointing, but I understand. All right, who's Jesse, go ahead. So, like that unanimously agreed that it was received. That's good. The good above this of the six of the 16 quarters that have passed since then has the town manager given any updates. Yeah. Part of it is your annual reports are certainly one of the things that gets referred to. I basically when the town manager. Does his update to the council, he often asks what's happening and I, I've been feeding information all along. And then if you note, there's the town manager's report that Laura Drucker. We're referred to at the last meeting and encouraged people to look at. You know, so the accomplishments over the, and just over the past year. So, you know, that information is definitely out there and is updated. I don't know that it's like a, you know, a well packaged quarterly report, but it's, you know, the information is definitely it's happening. I'm providing information. And there's some things that Paul even had that I didn't even really know about that I said, Oh, that's great. I wasn't aware but okay. So, you know, just so you're aware that that it's happening maybe not in. It's actually it's happening probably more frequently than quarterly because I whenever I have something I'm always giving him information for his updates. So I have more, a few more things. So I just wanted to give an update on that heat pump RFP. So I, because I said that I've been kind of waiting on some follow up, I went back through my emails and found the correspondence with Sean Mangano, where he had reached out to and what had happened and I think I'd reported this to you a while ago was that I was asked to provide some language about Amherst and the predominance of EJ communities within the town as a, you know, an explanation of why we want to do this heat pump program that it will be specifically targeted to EJ communities because there was some question about using federal funds to purchase heat pumps by individual homeowners. So, we had to first of all find out from Tom console is that allowed, and then had to have some language around sort of a justification for this program, and how we were going to market it to EJ communities primarily. So, the follow up was that Sean Reddit said, what I wrote said this looks good, and I will get back to you and that's where the ball sort of fell and got dropped. So, I have followed up with the person who is now taking over the ARPA funding, and she has reached back out to the legal console representative, a KP law who Sean had correspondence with, and has asked follow up questions. So, and she also had a few suggestions for me for additions to add to the RFP, based on sort of the ARPA funding piece. So, I can easily throw those things in, but it's really just getting. I think the response from legal console to sort of give us the blessing that we're kind of waiting on so I just wanted to give you an update that I'm not. You know, we're, we're following up it's just we're not getting the response that we need so we're, we're trying to move that forward. And it's my goal to try to get this RFP out like as soon as we hear from legal console, I'm going to make those edits so that I can just get it out. And we can start moving forward on that because I would like to really launch this program, you know, in January, February of 24. That's kind of my goal. So, and then let's see. Oh, and then Laura had sent me a link to the network geothermal opportunity and unfortunately when I researched that a little more, there was an application deadline for requesting the application. The deadline was October 13 and I, I received the, the link after that date. So, we kind of missed that opportunity but realistic. Honestly, I just this month I do not have the capacity. I've got a Metagrant and other things that I'm trying to follow up on and green communities reporting and some other various things that have to happen. So, this month is a busy month and I don't know that I would have had the capacity for that right now. You know, the round of that next year or you don't know, I would assume so I don't know for sure it's really hard to say. I don't know, but you know, certainly will be more. And again, we really personally, I like others to be the first. You know, so I learn a lot and also if other communities are doing stuff and I know someone from a community it makes it easier for me to sort of just call out to them and ask, what did you do, what do I need. And they help me do this quicker, faster or whatever. So, yeah, so I would hope there's going to be another opportunity. So I think those are my updates for tonight. Thank you Stephanie, you are welcome. Okay, you can't update anyone. Um, I meant to raise this last meeting, but it was kind of a transport heavy meeting anyway, so I just pushed it to this meeting, which is a member of the public reached out to Stephanie with concerns about vehicle idling and Stephanie asked me to raise that here. I don't, I don't really know what direction to take it. I mean, it's definitely a pet peeve of mine as well. It seems like maybe it would be something that we could focus on at like a town sustainability fair, or a block party next year or something like that, just like raising awareness of like, don't idle more than five minutes it's illegal and bad. You know, I do have some perspective on it as like, you know, employee from the employee perspective of like work truck perspective. And I'm aware that it's also kind of a, a workplace rights issue if people aren't allowed to take breaks in heated or cooled environments and don't have other options. Or if they're penalized for like driving to heated or cooled places to take their breaks. That's kind of a unsolved problem more generally that maybe would be an interesting systemic issue to take on at some point. So if anybody has thoughts or opinions on ways we could take up the issue of vehicle idling I definitely be happy to do that. I do have like great ideas right now beyond. Again, just raising it as like an educational thing at one of our events or. Yeah, Jesse. I'm just, could you, are you familiar with the law. Enough, I just mean, I'd love to get it in the minutes like what the actual Massachusetts law is. Thank you. I can read Google it. I've looked into this before. So don't, well, I should Google it before you. I can just add it, you know, I can reference it Jesse if you just want to say insert here. I bet I can do it. Okay. It's interesting to hear, but it's something like five minutes. I think it's a five minute. That's the law is five minutes. Massachusetts general laws chapter 90 section 16 a car cannot be idling more than five minutes unless it is being serviced or it is being used to deliver except goods where engine assisted power is necessary. $100 fine for the first offense 500 for subsequent. I also, I'm unclear. I would be curious if there's like a law enforcement exemption because I've seen law enforcement officers doing this a lot. Well, it does say that it's an issue. Yeah, it does say that the temperature is less than 35 Fahrenheit and idling is loud. For a period, not more than other than a school bus weird. It's a little weird anyway. Yeah, there are exceptions. Sorry, go ahead. Yeah, just to comment on this for a second. Um, I went through this a little bit at the college. I think some students wanted us to add some no idling in front of the library because a lot of students were idling in front of the library for some weird reason. Amherst College is not big enough to drive to the library, but that's a separate issue. So we did it, but yeah, there's no in for like the enforcement I think is probably not non existent. Um, and I think Stella raises some really important points about equity issues in terms of workers having a space to take breaks. Um, I mean, I think signage could potentially help. Um, but I also think, you know, of course transitioning to electric vehicles and to Stella's point in previous meetings making parking and charging options available for larger vehicles. I think we'd probably do more to help this than other things we could do. I also kind of think it's a place for you know, my, my partner is German and there there's definitely more of a culture of just like public reprimanding. Uh, I think this is a case where maybe some like just you know, not overly confrontational or like aggressive, just make a potential contract like public reprimanding is really effect which is where the education comes in because I think a lot of people don't know you know like they're not in the tailpipe. Yeah. Maybe some signage could help. Yeah, in the public parks or places like that but you know I don't know if this is like a top tier issue. There are so many signage things I could talk about in this town bicycle signage pedestrian signage lines on the street. All right so sorry I just wanted to have a follow up about that. So there was a kit we did actually do a campaign years ago we did a press release. We had a press event at somebody's house. Press I don't even think showed up. So, but we did actually have signs get posted at each of the schools. So there is actually a sign a single sign about idling at the high school the middle school and the elementary schools. They are there or they have been at least they were there years ago. It is really challenging to enforce there's some law officials who are not even aware of it and in fact the person who sort of brought this to me several years ago who wanted to do this as a campaign and kind of spearheaded had gone up to a police officer because there was a vehicle that was idling and said to the officer, you know, they're idling their vehicle it's been, you know, 10 minutes and the officer said, you know, well I can't, you know, what can I do and he said this is actually a law it's illegal. And he brought it up on his phone at the time and showed the officer and he said, oh, okay, then. And so he actually went and spoke to the person because the officer didn't know. So again, it is, I think it's a very challenging one for law enforcement to enforce because they'd have to drive around all the day care facilities and all the parents who are dropping off their kids, you know, and leave their cars. I remember one time a car idling where I dropped my daughter off and this person when I got in was sitting down at a table with the car running and sitting and chatting with the day care provider for quite some time with the car just running in the driveway. And why. So it is, you know, again, I think people are, I think there's some more awareness about it, but not as much as you would think given that it is actually illegal. So I think we need to do this more than five minutes. Go ahead, Dwayne. Yeah. When I was at deal we are this was an issue that our clean cities coordinator at the time who deals with alternative transportation was one of his big areas of pet peeves I guess. I mean, I mean, I think it's a very challenging technology more so for trucks and so forth that allow for trucks to not idle, but have a, I guess, probably a battery of some sort to condition the van and so forth, but those are specialty cases. Just in terms of aware, I think a lot of his awareness and education. I guess I just a question I wonder if they teach that in driver's ed. I didn't even teach it in like, because I have a CDL and they didn't even mention it in like my CDL training so I did. Well, I got my driver's license in Missouri where there is no driver's head. I don't know whether they treat you to drivers here, but I did get my CDL in Massachusetts and they did not mention idling at all. It's like a very rigorous process and does not mention idling. So teaching it in driver's ed is something we can probably deal with locally. We can just ask the local driving schools. I mean, isn't there just one or two drivers at schools in Amherst at least. Yeah, we can just ask them and it might be worth writing a little letter just to the state to point out that this needs to be part of driver's training I mean I remember it astounds me that that, you know, having gotten the driver's license in California years there's all sorts of stuff on the California test that I never saw anything else about how to deal with bicyclists and pedestrians and really, you know, that you never see on the, on the questions here. And I always thought that was sort of brilliant and wondered how those, how all of those questions got there. And I think the answer is somebody had to ask for it, maybe nobody's asking maybe we should write a little letter or just lobby or just write to our individually to our, you know, our local, our local state Senator Joe Comerford and Mindy Dome and just ask them to, is there a way to get this into, into the driver's ed test book. Yeah, I just think this is one of, sorry go ahead Stella. Oh, that's a great idea I thought that was a great idea and I'd be happy to draft a letter to the local driving schools from us just like hey. Okay, cool. I just all I wanted to say was that I also think that not to minimize a topic like this because I feel like this is one of those things where we like oh it's idling what can we do, but collectively if you think about it. I mean there's so much idling that's happening and if we're really concerned about carbon emissions I really feel like this is a this is a nut to crack because you know we've got laws in the state and they're not being enforced, and it's not a problem I'm still seeing people do it all the time. You know so dropping off kids and all of that so I really. Yeah, I, I encourage you to sort of take a stand and follow up. Maybe so Stella if you want to draft a letter go ahead you can sign it you know we'll see if there's a version that we can all sign. I mean I think before drafting a letter maybe just a phone call to the driver's school if it's on the curriculum. You can write a little letter of a little op ed you know a little opinion piece for the local paper or something like that just to get just to get this out there on people's minds. Yeah. This was ringing a bell and I remember now and I found it I was reading a New York City has a citizens air complaint program, which allows citizens to report trucks that are parked in idling for more than three minutes or more than one minute outside of a school, and those who report can collect 25% of any fine against the truck. Basically, like these retired people going around surreptitiously taking pictures or videos. There's a hotline or some way they submit it. And then I guess the city then sends it to the registered owner of the vehicle. Well it says it's it's a hot market for videos of idling trucks it does say that some drivers respond with fists. So it's a, it's a bounty hunting program not without risks. I also think like that is, I've heard about that I've heard about that and that is like a huge equity issue. It is like targeting trucks specifically, and like employees rather than like the employers that are like forcing people to take breaks in their trucks. Well I think that the fines go to the employers not the drivers, because it's based on. Yeah, but like, do they really or do they get taken out of their pay you know. Yeah, right, right. Yeah, yeah I agree with you. There's an equity issue there about that break I hadn't thought about that aspect before. But he may be encouraging residents to spy on one another is not what we want. Probably not not never. We do that enough already. I had one little update if we're moving on to other. I just yesterday last night I gave a nice presentation over at the Hitchcock Center. I'm a professor of hands for college and I gave a presentation on the Massachusetts decarbonization plan and clean energy climate action plans and 13 people signed up but I think there were about eight or nine folks there. So they had a great discussion. And that's where I met two folks from Hadley who were involved in their whatever is equivalent to our energy climate action committee. And they're continuing the Hitchcock Center will continue they've had a series of events, and will continue events. So there may, there may be a partner that you see AC could work with along with the Hitchcock Center because I know they're very interested in fostering discussion on issues around climate action. Okay, that seems like something maybe I'll just reach out to them and see where things are. Yeah, especially in so far as the solar, you know in the built environment maybe they have some ideas for how to get that to a wider audience. Anything else. If not, then let's move on I think we're probably at. Are we back at the beginning here. Let's see. So we've been saying a few of them along the way. We decided, what did we decide we decided certainly this solar. Solar in the built environment or solar how you can be involved in so I'll have to come up with some sort of a name for the thing built environment isn't quite doing it but that'll be focused a lot of it. Are you talking about the series or just theories right so that should be on them. I'm going to continue trying to schedule that. Let's keep talking about that. There's the solar bylaw, which Dwayne is going to give us an overview of right. That will take a lot of time. Was there anything else. What am I forgetting maybe the letter Stella is going to draft a letter. Right. I'll just kind of go down that list. Like, I'll call them and if they say they're already teaching it maybe like try to draft an op-ed I'll draft something. I'll keep working on the. But I don't think it has to be I think he'd be an update I'll keep working on the. I lost it. The climate bang thing. But I think that can just be an update. I'll have a letter. You know, I'll probably have something. No, maybe we should put it on because it'll probably be a little memo that will go in the packet. So maybe that should be on there. I think response update something like that. Stella, I just want to give a supportive thumbs up for your idea about an op-ed. Yeah, I think it was somebody else's idea, but thanks. I'll sit up and maybe do it. Yeah, if you want to, I don't know. And I think I may have said that because I'm always happy to do stuff like that. But if you want to draft something Stella, as long as you're drafting a letter, maybe draft a short little something for the Gazette or wherever things go nowadays. Descend to local papers on idling that you can't can sign off on. I think that'd be great. That's easy. And we can send a copy to the town council to just know what broke to be worthwhile sending a copy to our local police chief or sheriff or whoever's in charge of the police department. I don't even know. Gabe Ting is the acting chief right now. What's his name? Gabe Ting, T-I-N-G. Chief Ting. You could, you know, you could get it to me and I can forward it along. On behalf of the committee. Like you could send it to me, Lori, with your language or whatever, and I just forward it. Okay. Does that sound okay, Stella? You want to draft some sort of an all purpose. Yeah. Okay. Anything else? If not, back to public comment. And I think is Martha still here? Yes. Martha is here. Hold on, Martha. You can go ahead and unmute. Hi. Okay. I've made comment on several things you've discussed here. Interesting meeting. So working backwards from the, the eiling point of view, may I suggest that you also send your letter to the school superintendent, send it to the, what's her, what's her name, the school administrator and ask her to send it out with the parents letter that goes out weekly. There is a lot of idling at the schools. I chatted, you know, you might also want to talk with the sunrise club at the high school because I chatted with a couple of them a few months ago and kind of casually asked them about that and they said yeah the signs there but everybody just idols for a long time. And so if it went out in the parents letter. That would be a good thing. I can't think of the name of the administrator right now but, but she's the one to cut Deb. What's her name? First names Deb. Okay. I graduated six years ago. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that's so that you might also call the triple local AAA office. So one thing you learn about AAA when you live in the Washington DC area is that they are a lobbying group for everything horrible. They want roads they want to spend money on roads and. The one it had leasing. They also teach, they also teach a lot of drivers ed classes and I don't think those people are the lobbyists. They're not that's true. Okay. And also to pile on Martha your comment about the schools is huge because this is besides being a climate issue this is an air quality and asthma and those children's lungs are vulnerable. Yeah, thank you for bringing that up. Okay. So, so then on to the solar and the built environment. The rooftop solar safer for homeowners. I'm thinking that, you know, the way to get people interested really is the personal touch. I mean, I've seen cases where one person gets it in a neighborhood so then several others do because of the personal interaction or, you know, if you had a pamphlet, for example, if there was some kind of a, you know, an information sheet or a glossy two page pamphlet or something about how to get information that either could be distributed with the water bills to everybody, or that people could use and go around their neighborhoods or whatever and encourage kind of neighborhood groups to get together and do it. And I'm also thinking that in addition to the local developers, in our case we put solar panels on our roof. Oh, a decade ago now you know when it was first becoming popular. And we did it through Sun Run where we don't own the panels we quote rent them, you know, and what that meant was you didn't have the high upfront cost. And in 10 years this month is the first time I have ever had to pay ever source a bill. And it's because now I've got a heat pump so I'm using more electricity. So that would be my suggestion there that maybe investigate that option. Yeah, because there I came across an interesting summary in Forbes home about a survey that had been done of homeowners and why they either did or didn't have solar on their roof and Laurie I think I might have sent you the link. If I didn't maybe I should. Okay. But what was interesting was that for asking set of why, if you haven't done it. Why not. Well, it was the high upfront cost was the biggest block. Yeah, you did send me that Martha sorry I actually even looked at it. Yeah, and then what were the motivations of why people would do it one was to save money in the long term. And the other was, you know, because of climate change or because of the environment and those were the two motivators that could be emphasized then, but the problem of the upfront cost is the big challenge. Yeah, I would just add to, sorry, Martha, I would just add to that. You can also avoid or knock down that barrier by having good solar loans available. And you mass five, which is obviously very present in our region is the dominant lender in Massachusetts, providing solar loans. So something, and I'm sure Greg Harrison probably is familiar with that. Yes, but what I might suggest is looking at that Forbes home survey and also we did manage to get that those questions Stephanie into the GCA thing. So there should be some results I haven't checked recently the GCA survey, but I think it came out the same result as the Forbes home survey about the reasons people either do it or don't do it. But if you could create some kind of an information sheet that would have information including what Dwayne just said about getting the low cost loans. And if you had a way of having somebody present something about, you know, the option to rent instead of buy panels. But I really think there's a very big opportunity here but most people are hesitant because they don't have the information, and they're worried about the costs. Is that rental thing still available? It is. I was just going to say that, you know, it's with it really depends on the company that you're working with. And it's great. I'm glad Martha that you have had a positive experience but I've had some communication with some people who have not had great experiences. So I think you have to be really careful with that. And when we did the Solaris program, we really encouraged people to own because the long term was actually a much bigger benefit. And I, in fact, in that whole program I think we had 200 households sign up for the program and participate and nobody leased everybody owns their systems. So just, I'm not saying don't I'm just saying just, I think there has to be caveats with that and it's not, you know, I'm really glad to hear that you had a positive experience. Well, and also that was a decade ago and I think things have really changed since then. You know, back back then it was kind of solar was just starting. And so, you know, it was very different now there are several developers locally and and so on and there are the rebates. There's a lot of misinformation to which is what I hope will try to undo with these. But an information sheet of some kind I think would be very helpful. And then it could be referenced on the town website but also then actually printed out and be available in our town library they have a whole room where they have, you know, pamphlets about things and bulletin board you can stick things and find one somewhere. Yes. Let's see, I think. Yeah. And then, if you decide to do the agrovoltaics. Jake Marley I would highly recommend I thought he gave us an excellent presentation and he's, he's local. He's passionate he's very very knowledgeable and I thought he gave a very clear presentation. Yes, and then in fact, you know he made the invitation I actually went up to Joe's farm there in North Hadley and saw the broccoli growing in the shade of the solar panels. It looked great it was really thriving. So, you know, I, I'm, I'm all enthused about the agrovoltaics but the permitting and contracting and all still is a big hassle and in his case he does that for somebody handles it so. Yeah. Okay, well thank you. Well, I've got to thank you. Thank you. All right, so I think that's it for the evening. Shall we adjourn? Anything else? If not, then I will see you all have a good Thanksgiving. Yeah. Happy Thanksgiving everyone. Yeah, absolutely. Take care. Good night. Good night.