 presentation. I have one question to the speaker. The last slide you suggest to formalization of the informal sector. My question is first of all I guess things that you didn't present much statistics. Those women that participate in the labor market in the informal sector one because of their their own human capital and the second is because their timing since the women have more responsibility to the families. If you informal if you formalized informal sector perhaps they lost the job. What is your what do you mean the formalization? My name is Huai from CEM Vietnam. Thank you all for three presentations. They are very interesting and informative. I have questions for the first presentation on Chinese experience on income inequality. Actually there are many features. It's the same in Vietnam with especially with the rising chance of inequality during the development process over the past decades. And in the presentation you ask you so ask the questions whether China reached the top of coolness curve in terms of inequality during the development process. However there are several experts view especially one in the recently famous book public namely capital in the 21st century and they argue that the Kuznet's hypothesis is no longer relevant even the past experience of many countries. So what is our views on this one whether the rising chance of inequality in China is like this have a feature like a coolness curve or does the government need to do something to reduce the increase this increasing chance. This is the first question and the second question is about the you mentioned a lot about the urban and rural and regional aspects of inequality and then I think it is normal because in terms of economic growth you also need to give a prior prioritize the resource to several we call the economic poles in the economy so that will create the kind of the rural urban or even the regional aspects of inequality but in terms of policy what do you think the government should do to in this regards in terms of rising inequality and the last questions about the is that how is the inequality issues is considered on the government agenda the Chinese government agenda or mainly Chinese government many touches on reducing poverty rather than the inequality. Thank you. You seem to be challenging there was a paper by I think one on one and Anthony Shorrocks you know when they first talk about that the importance of I can't remember which the date was but it's quite it's a well-known paper and that their argument is that you know as you find a large component of inequality in China is that the spatial component that comes out in your tile decomposition now I didn't really pick up from your you present a genie at the rural and urban picture at the start but you know genie is not terribly well suited to that you know these kind of spatial comparisons obviously you could get genies going up in urban and rural separately and then the genie overall going down because of the nature of genie I wondered if are you challenging what they said because essentially they're saying actually China is two countries almost almost that there's a rural China and urban China and within urban within rural there isn't so much inequality but I wasn't able to pick that up and if that is what you're saying that's that's quite a strong conclusion I wanted to give you the opportunity of saying is that something you did find because I noticed that they're not using the local courts the farmers and almost 50% of the reallocations have disputes and I'm thinking is that a strategy do you think from farmers to get around the local courts to to province level and get the attention of province level caters it could be a strategy the first is that the question is a hypothesis can be applied to developing countries like China, U.N., something like that my answer is no you say yeah I totally agree with Thomas Piketty's opinions on that you say if you look at the literature you say even the question your hypothesis is based on the data from you say developed countries is from the early of the 20th century to the 50s yeah so that is but if you look at your appearance even in the developing countries you will find income you call it decrease during the 60s or 70s largely yeah DL2 you say redistributing policies not DL2 you say economic development something like that yeah I think Robert Campbell you say had the article papers summarized main argument on the question is hypothesis that even yeah when we talk about the question is hypothesis in China it's still a lot of Chinese scholars believe yeah cuisine is hypothesis can be applied to the China you say when you say you say slightly decreased in the you say income equality it's okay yeah cuisine is a hypothesis it's a turning point yeah it's coming so something like that yeah my yeah personally do not believe yeah China is the case the cuisine is hypothesis kind of explain so the second yeah you mentioned that in China probably United there are very large income gap between urban and rural areas you just said it's very whether it's normal or not yeah there's some gap yeah it's not so big yeah you can say it's normal in the any countries you will find you say income gap between rural and urban area but when we say a very large gap you say this gap maintain at the very high level so that will say that why yeah that's so large gap so that we find there are a lot of you say the policy or institutions in five world for urban areas also there are some you say mobility is the barrels your father to the rural people to the urban find even in urban areas there are a lot of discrimination policy against the rural people something I think that policy really play very important role in its plan is a high income gap you say that means so that come to your third questions yeah what kinds of the government policy will be implemented to reduce the income gap between rural and urban areas I think in the last five years the government issues a lot of policies such as then the bullish the Huco system I don't know yet that is household registration system that means you say in China urban people and the rural people have a difference the Huco difference is there ID card there's something like that so none the government want to reduce you see a division of the Huco system another is that the government want to put more resources in to the rural areas try to support development of compulsory education provide more support to the poor people in rural areas give us a lot of subsidy to rural area yeah in that way they try to reduce income gap between rural and urban area so yeah there are some of the government policy agendas in last year several ministers issue a package of the income distribution reform that means they have a lot of you say policy new policy will be introduced in next five years I think that policy will be yeah the work yeah probably in the future something like that now come to the last question yeah yes you see the China you see there's some inequality within urban areas some inequality even you yeah rural area something like that when you come to it yeah I think the country built us to you quality younger very quite different from that yeah in the rural area something like that in rural area you see regional difference you look quite large in rural area yeah if you look compare you see in household income between coastal area and the western area you will find very big that difference that's a larger difference depend on you see non-farming activities you see you're more you see non-farming activity in the coastal area also a lot of migrants moving from western area to a rural area something but when you come to the urban areas yeah as I mentioned that the large difference you see come from the skilled unskilled works as a result of returns rising return to education something like that so yeah I agree with you that there's some yeah different reasons for rising income equality within and urban area and within rural area something yeah I cannot talk in detail about yeah many many yeah contributors to that thank you let me just kind of take these in turn and I have relatively kind of strong views on Chinese inequality so I want to say a few things about that as well first in terms of Hendricks you know comment the reason why the courts aren't being used because the state doesn't want to allow households to use the courts that they're willing to allow the households to go ahead and press you know to use the courts as a mechanism to press claims again against other households but when it happens to be again a claim again against the state or some injustice that they feel has been done by higher levels of government extremely difficult to do and in fact there's been a recent again announcement by the highest of Supreme Court again one of the one of the judges there who basically says as much and so I think that one of the things again that we're seeing is that the state again in the party in a variety of ways is trying to go ahead and to restrict again the way in which the legal system is used again in terms of allowing households to go ahead and press their claims so I think that's the most important again reason in terms of why the courts aren't being used at the current moment in terms of inequality of land in terms of the role that it happens to have in terms of inequality again in the countryside again there's a lot of favorite word heterogeneity it's certainly the case that in the countryside that inequality of land has gone ahead and increased but what's happened in inequality at the same time is that the returns to land relative to the returns to labor have just fallen numerate have fallen enormously and and so the contribution that land or income from land today in part this is because of the agricultural policies that are in part again kind of reducing the returns to agriculture for a lot of these households they're just again that's not the issue that when we take a look at where the inequality is rising again the reason it's rising in rural and in rural China again it's really again about nature of human capital and skills that individuals have to be able to access the labor market that's become extremely important and more important over time maybe 10 or 15 years ago it was about the ability of households to move into family-run businesses that before households and individuals were be able to migrate it was the ability of households to move into these small family-run enterprises that were extremely important in there it was access to capital and access to skills that were extremely important in that regard so land inequality has increased again in some areas at least access to these use rights have but I don't believe again it's the most important thing in terms of what's contributing to inequality in terms of looking at the bigger picture of inequality in China that what I would argue is I've never been really happy with his view that urban rule inequality is rising and a lot of it has to do with measurement and so if you go ahead and if you were to accurately measure what the differences was difference in in urban rule incomes in the late 1970s and you measured everything again correctly that what you would find is that the differences in terms of income between the countryside and the cities was probably on the order of four to five to one so it's a very difficult measurement issue because throughout much of the 80s and even into the early 1990s individuals in the in the cities again either through again access to consumer goods grain other things of preferential prices either through access again of all kinds of non-pecuniary benefits again that they were entitled again through if they were working in state or enterprises those things are just very very difficult again to be able to measure the other other issue that we run into is that if you take a look in terms of urban rule income differences in China is that we've seen again massive urbanization over the time over time and so that when today when people are comparing urban and rule rule in some sense is not even being held constant and so another kind of calculations again that we've done over the years is that if you could go ahead and if you could fix urban to find urban again at a given point in time what you would find is that urban rule differences even measured that way again aren't rising but the problem that we have today is that all the more successful areas again rule areas they're effectively kind of a treading out of the rule sample they're now again urban incomes are higher and so what you have is what you got left over are those areas again that aren't growing nearly as rapidly so it looks like urban rule income differences are rising when in fact they're not that moreover that when you start to take a look at China on a regional basis is that what you'll see is that there's unbelievably important differences in terms of all the inequality dynamics between the coastal provinces and between the interior that if you were to take a look at a province like Jijiang which is south of Jiangsu that what you would find is that over the course of the last 30 or 40 years that the increases in inequality over that period of time have been relatively modest if you go ahead and if you go into the interior that what you'll find is that that's where we see some of the largest again increases in inequality and it has an awful lot again to do again with the nature of the reforms that have been going on so that when we talk about regional differences in inequality in China I mean the thing that we want to remember is that this is again a country where there's been massive reform that have allowed people to move off the land move people to move from the west to the east that product markets again have been liberalized again significantly so in some sense all of those things again should have been helping to reduce the differences again between the west and east and that what I would argue on contrary a lot of people argue I would say that state policy the development the great west policy all of those things again in some sense have been major contributing factors again to the fact that the west hasn't grown more rapidly than what it has so it's a policy problem as opposed to just you know fundamental differences again between regions I understand that is very different questions but I can also take one example from Vietnam to see how we can do it actually in urban in urban era in Vietnam now many families they need support for the for the chair for the children caring and why the public services it's not enough to support the women in family to do that many families now need domestic helper from rural areas and it is very common now in Hanoi in Ho Chi Minh City and big cities so almost the family with small children they have the domestic helper from rural areas and almost for 15 years gender specialist they're talking about the domestic helper who who to who will take them if they work for the family owners and and recently after I think that 10 or 15 years and now two years ago when we approved the labor code one regulations on article on the domestic helper already included in the labor code that means family owner who hired the domestic helper should have a minimum income should have some meet to some requirement and condition for the for the domestic helper so I think that is one example of how we can formalize the informant sector of course I understand that it's not easy for all but actually if we try to do as much as possible for the women work can govern by law and other example I think that's now for the social insurance only the worker who have contract for three months three months work they have they are in time the social insurance in Vietnam but actually if the contract only three months and and less remand a lot of women now is only one month or two months even employer employers they avoid that because they don't they don't want to do to pay for the social insurance so if we try to do like a adjust policy how to incorporate how do women can more benefit from policy that is I'm talking about the formalizations thank you Joseph from Ghana from you talked about the difficulty in terms of the family sharing responsibility between the males and female or the preference for for sons how is that being managed in terms of changing the norm or the the social preference so that both men and or both boys and girls as children will be given the same preference in terms of the family issues in terms of the gender issues has been raised in Vietnam you are talking about we are talking about the gender stereotypes of the women role is a family because actually the Vietnamese women I think that different from the Asian other countries they do both productions very active in the economic activities and also they do the production and even this you are talking about the social norm as a change I think that is for the nuclear family in the urban areas easily is different from the rural areas but in Vietnam now we almost 70 percent of population is a rural area and the social norm for the chain is sustained very slow compared to the urban areas in the urban area is a family only nuclear family both only they don't they don't live with the parents so that is a different pattern they can help each other it's more sharing from the from husband for the white but for them for extended family I think that is a small burden on the women because they need to not only to take care of the children but also the pattern in law and also relative also so we can I can think from my personal view I can think that is the economic development is more ahead compared to the southern chains especially in the gender stereotypes is quite very slowly changed in Vietnam yes thank you thank you very much okay okay well we've had three presentations there from experts in their field on three different aspects of inequality income inequality in China land inequality or inequality inequality in the use of land in again in China gender inequality these are things which are really important in these countries but these are things that are really important in lots of countries and these land issues these gender issues these these issues about what men and women do inside the household and stuff these are things that we recognize from lots of countries so hopefully there are useful lessons for for all of us whatever countries we represent let me just finally thank the thank the speakers for excellent presentations and thank you for your questions and inputs thank you very much