 Good morning and welcome to the session on the rise of the stay at home economy. I'm Jennifer Shanker, Editor-in-Chief of The Innovator. And this morning we're gonna be talking about how the radical shifts in consumer behavior during the pandemic have impacted in-person retail. In fact, in-person shopping and retail occupancy have rebounded since 2020, but research indicates that it's still nowhere near pre-pandemic levels, especially in Europe and North America. In many major cities, ground floor retail is still seeing high vacancy rates leading to retrenching among global consumer brands, concern from city officials, and a re-appraisal of the purpose of the store. What does this mean for global brands and for city centers? How can we reimagine the future of brick and mortar stores? And how might we use these spaces differently? What are the implications for communities, for cities, consumers, and businesses? So with that, I'd like to now introduce our panelists. We are very pleased to introduce the honorable mayor, Francis Suarez. He is the mayor of Miami, but he is also president of the United States Conference of Mayors. Claudia Azavedo is CEO of Sonai, a company that owns retail brands, shopping centers, and technology companies that focus on retail. Ahmed Ismail is the CEO of Majid Al-Futam Properties, and he leads the company's work in developing its shopping malls, retail, future retail activities, as well as hotels and residential communities. Mark Rose is chairman and CEO of Avizon Young, which brings the perspective of a global real estate advisory company. So Mark, let's kick off with you. Can you give us a general outline of the challenges that you see brick and mortar stores facing? I will give challenges only if I can also give opportunities, okay? So let's just balance this. So just a quick little level setting. Retail is not dead. We have this issue where sound bites are the communication of the day. It's easy to say whether you're a retailer or in retail property, but retail is not dead. I would even tell you that retail has been the most booming part of the real estate market over the last five years. It was just called industrial and logistics, but trust me, that was all retail. So the markets, you cannot pigeonhole any particular city or country. Regional malls are coming back, traffic is coming back. We run something called the Vitality Index, so we show the cell phone data. It absolutely is coming back. Big box retail is struggling still a bit, and both sales and traffic to them are down. But to bring this closer to the panel and why we want to talk about this new city living, cities are particularly major cities are struggling a bit, but I do think that there is hope there as well. Folks are coming back into cities, but what are they doing? They're coming in for experiences. So they're coming in for dinner, entertainment, same people that could very well go into the office, but they're not. Well, except for my state of Florida, along with the mayor, because first of all, we never had COVID in Florida. It wasn't allowed in. We kept it open the whole time, but cities and particularly as you look at the major cities, there is an issue that is getting better, but we're gonna need some help. I think we're gonna talk about this a little later on, but if street level retail and office buildings are empty or dark, then that gives the perception of safety issues, the homeless issue. And again, we need to be addressing low income housing, affordable housing, housing for those who are suffering with mental wellness issues, but if there's homeless and it's a bit darker, there is a perception. And we are struggling with that perception in major cities around the world. Again, not every major city is the same, but in general, we are suffering with that. And then, and again, I don't know if we're gonna have an opportunity to talk about this. We have to remember that change is inevitable. It's happening every day. So as I started with a little bit of joke, which is real, showrooms have gotten smaller. Distribution and fulfillment has gotten much, much bigger. And these channels of the retailing OmniChannel are now gonna be augmented by the Metaverse and do not laugh. The Metaverse, NFTs, I'm up there with all of you, like I bought an NFT, I don't know what I own, it's pretty, I don't know what I own. One day I will, but the Metaverse is real and if you think about this, it is an incredible opportunity in web 3.0 to move from social media to an immersive virtual experience to see J.P. Morgan in the Metaverse giving mortgages to buy Metaverse property and also to lend on physical properties in the real world. You're seeing this from a retail perspective where if your vans or your Nike, you and your avatar with your Oculus classes, maybe in a few years, holograms can make your way into a virtual store, your avatar is bopping around, it's jumping into a concert, you might be playing a video game or your kids might be doing it, you can walk into a virtual store, grab a pair of shoes off the shelf, put them on your feet, they'll give you an experience through sound of whether it fits right, you'll see how it looks and if you don't think this is the next wave of retailing, you're gonna do that at your own peril. So we do have some more things to worry about but I think this is one of the most exciting times that you can possibly be living in. Thank you so much, Mark. Claudia, I'm gonna turn to you now because your company has a kind of unique perspective, you own all of these different verticals, you own brands, you own shopping centers and the technology to facilitate both online and in-person sales. What do you think consumers want now and what does the future of the in-person store look like to give in their new interests? Okay, thank you very much. I think what the consumer wants today was still untangling what does the post-COVID consumer want because at the same time, as retailers, we didn't really have the time to breathe to say what are the long-term trends because there's geopolitical risks, there's inflation, there's energy crisis, so untangling all of this and saying, what are the future long-term trends has been difficult for us, retailers? But there's one that's here to stay and e-commerce was already very big before COVID. It got bigger with COVID and if you see retail, it varies by country and it varies by sector but retailing is back to pre-COVID levels but what we see is that digital is more or less 20 or 30% higher, so as retailers and as a long-term trend, we see that the famous word omni-channel, we did a lot of our retailing, we sort of optimized the store for it to be the best store possible and then we optimized the site to be the best site possible if it's PC or mobile and I think as a long-term trend, this can't be, we need to sort of be totally seamless, connective and complimentary and as mass marketers and for example, food retailers, it's very mass market and we have to suddenly bring the technology on board for each customer to be a journey and he wants to, when today you shop online, you're aware that everything online, they know your orders, what you've done but when you go offline, it's like nobody knows who you are and bringing those two together, I think is a long-term trend seamlessly, probably a lot to do with payments, the ecosystem payments and so you mentioned technology and technology is still not there but has to make this journey possible, this connected journey where we see customers. I'm a big believer in store retailing, I just think it will have to evolve with the needs of the consumer. We see big brands asking in our shopping malls for more square meters because they want to, in prime locations, to have all their online assortment online, it's a huge brand building exercise and so I think I'm optimistic on the future of retailing, it's just a different retailer but it's been like that, retailers are masters in adapting themselves to the consumer. So Ahmed, your malls in the UAE did well even during the pandemic. What was the secret to your success and also going back to the point that Claudia made, how do you see brick and mortar stores leveraging data and how do your malls do that? I think to just frame the discussion about at-home versus out-of-home because both of us are in the out-of-home business. We're also a bit in the in-home business and the in-home business has been obviously going through transformation that's been going on for a number of decades. It took two decades for 50% of households in the US to have radio that pushed people to stay more at home. TVs did it in a decade. Internet and mobile phones did it in five years and now smart speakers did it in almost three. Let's see if the metaverse makes it in less than that which means that the at-home market is becoming more central to our lives and more relevant for our business. People are shopping more online, entertaining more online, working more at home and certainly consuming more at home. But what we see is the more that you consume and spend time at home, actually psychologically there is an even bigger hunger and thirst for a human and social experience. So the two are somehow interconnected but the challenge is for retail is the out-of-home experience for the longest period has deteriorated. It hasn't been as differentiated or as immersive as you want it to be and as such customers have been disappointed and they haven't been coming back. So for the retail centers to continue to be relevant they have to be highly experiential and they have to satisfy that psychological need for community, connection, social, and experience. And we see that in our malls and across all of our markets that the more experiential malls are coming back stronger. Some of them are double digits ahead in terms of footfall and sales versus pre-pandemic and within our malls the more experiential brands are doing better and they are the brands that are asking for more space and are really growing and rethinking their experience. So retail is by nowhere, physical retail is nowhere dead nor is it sick, it's just transforming very, very fast. Do you want to touch on the data issue? Yeah, I mean data has been a big challenge for our business in the commercial real estate business because our new age competitors whether they're Web 2.0 platforms or Web 3.0 metaverses, they are incredibly data rich. And as commercial real estate owners and operators we are incredibly data poor. We have no idea what's going on within our four walls. So what we've done over the past five years we've invested a lot in data collection. Directly through loyalty programs and partnership with within our ecosystem because we have a big ecosystem with the measurable theme of leisure, entertainment, retail. We've also struck very, I would say, interesting partnerships with payment processors, telco companies and believe it or not the Dubai government through the Dubai smart initiative which allows us to bridge really this data divide between us and our digital competitors. So when you walk into many of our assets we would recognize you, we'd be able to personalize the experience, we'd be able to react faster to your disappointments if you are a higher value customer and it really changes the game from a customer experience perspective but most importantly it changes our value proposition to our tenants. So we are no longer in the business of providing space. Good, well-maintained, clean space. We actually provide data insights, omnichannel enablement, fulfillment in some instances and perhaps even marketing services. So that changes the game really for commercial real estate to become not a B2B business but rather a B2B2C business that is digitally enabled. Fascinating, and we wanna come back to that but I wanted to get to you, Mayor Suarez. So you have a unique perspective because you're not only representing the city of Miami but as the head of this association, all mayors in America at a time when they're all focusing on how to build back better. So what are you seeing that cities in America trying to do to bring that retail back in the city centers? Well, I think the panel did a wonderful job of explaining this sort of new world that we live in and I think cities have to be understanding of that new world. You can only do so much as a city government to try to change the dynamics that are macro in nature and that are rooted in technological disruptions. So I think for us and hopefully for other cities across America, rather than try to fight that change, we wanna lean into it and sort of understand it. I think much of what was said by the prior panelists I totally agree with and I would focus on two things. One is the fact that the world is experiential as was mentioned. And so the fact that the world is experiential means you have to build your city around a quality of life set of offerings that mirror that experiential world. For example, in the context of malls, we have outdoor malls, very high end and we have indoor malls that are also combined with restaurants and things that are meant to bring people in, have a great experience and then when you're there, there is a benefit. Even if how efficient online shopping has become, it's still not as efficient as walking into a store, trying something on, buying it and leaving with it and being able to use it immediately. So I think that's part of this experiential world that we're living in. I think the second part, which wasn't mentioned, is sort of the remote work phenomenon. The remote work phenomenon has changed cities fundamentally because people now can work from anywhere for a company located in a different city and it dislocates them physically from the place of work. So cities are gonna take advantage of that. Miami has been a huge beneficiary during the pandemic of the remote work phenomenon as people have left areas that are higher in taxes to come to a city with Miami, which as was mentioned, had a much more liberal COVID policy and allowed people to dine at restaurants and do a variety of things. So once that all happened and people came to Miami what they realized, what they learned about Miami was that there was a critical mass. So we've moved, and I said this at the last panel was on, we've moved about $2 trillion in assets under management companies to Miami in the last 18 months and we've grown our venture capital pipeline by 400%. What that means is that there is a bedrock of capital which will allow people to build and scale companies at a growing rate. And what that means for consumerism and for how you create a city that understands this consumer revolution is that there's gonna be companies built in Miami that cater to that consumer revolution. We have one called Open Store, which is competing with Amazon. And I think the other thing is people are, cities are going to be built around the concept of shopping as an experience as opposed to shopping to buy a good as it was before. And I do think that the last thing I would say is that shopping online versus shopping in a store is fundamentally about two different things. I think it's gonna disrupt certain retail establishments and maybe not others. I think high-end, for example, it's people are less likely to go to a high-end store and buy something online than they are, then they wanna see it, they wanna feel it, they wanna wear it. And I think maybe someone will get something, toothpaste or something that they don't have to necessarily try out in a CVS. They can wait a couple days to get their toothpaste or their shaving cream, which is what I do, by the way. And then you're fine, right? It doesn't disrupt your day, it doesn't slow you down. You can do it in the car, you can buy it. So I think there's a tremendous efficiency, particularly in buying fungible goods that you have to constantly replace. So I wanna jump on that point. As people start ordering more and more things online, including even a simple tube of toothpaste, there's a need for distribution centers. And those distribution centers are frequently now replacing storefronts in city centers. Mark, how do you think that impacts the feel of the city? Yeah, I mean, I just had a little pain as the mayor was talking. I wouldn't, there's so much need for retail, but to the point of these comments, it's all just changing, right? It's change, it's not, as we said, retail is actually increasing. You're seeing more in-mall sales than online. So online's dropping. Mayor and the other panelists are absolutely right. You can't replace an experience. I have two daughters, they were around 30. I don't think they've been to a mall to buy something in seven to 10 years, but they're at the mall for entertainment, to eat. And my daughter's getting married in August, and I was shocked that in my house literally came 15 boxes of shoes and dresses. And they tried them on and didn't like any of them, sent them all back and then you do it again. So we just have to build that in. So yes, are we going to see warehouses expand? We were, you're seeing the largest starting to pull back. They might have overshot where they needed to be. Are you going to see showrooms come down a little bit in size? Absolutely, but you may also see more business formation. And particularly, again, I don't want to make this Florida centric, right? What do we have? 1,200 people coming into Florida every day. I mean, there's a need, right? Supply and demand, there's a need. Malls, there's a need for this. And I also think that the pandemic has turned the table a little bit because now two years into this, folks want to get out of the house and they do want to go there. They do want to go to Lincoln Road. They do want to go to a mall in the shopping center because it's kind of been tough for the last couple of years. So I just wouldn't rule this out, but let's embrace the change and where it's going to show up and how it's going to be built. All these things are part of the next generation of retail. So how do we make sure that the new types of stores and distribution centers become part of community life? And so that's a question I'll throw out to each of you, really. I know, for example, that your company makes a big effort to integrate the malls and shopping centers it builds into their communities. How do you do that? So it starts early on from planning days. Many of our centers, we've very deliberately branded them city center because we believe that they actually anchor the neighborhood, the anchor, the community. So it starts from early planning and development days to make sure that you are developing an asset that adds value to the community and that the community can relate to and call their own. For the existing assets, it also means rethinking our space and location to a large extent. So even in our most premium, most successful assets, we're making space for cultural experiences. We're making space that we call platform-flexible space to allow local brands, local designers, artists to have a presence in a very premium real estate without the very high barrier and high costs of entry. So by bringing and inviting the community into the assets commercially, you also bring the community into the assets emotionally and having that emotional connection between where you spend your time for entertainment, shopping, et cetera is very, very important to establish. Otherwise, it becomes a chore. I'm going there to buy something in and out. The other thing that I have to say is that we think about web 2.0, web 3.0 and physical spaces as two separate worlds. They're deeply interconnected. I mean, we have done a lot of research that shows once a brand opens a store, a physical store in a particular neighborhood, e-commerce sales from that brand goes up and when they close the store, sales go down and the further you are from the closest store, the less likely you are by from that brand. So obviously that's changing the mindset around the value of the store. The value of the store is no longer the sales within the four walls because we will have stores that have zero sales. And I can tell you, I'm sure you'd agree, we're not gonna have zero rent. So it's very important for us to appreciate that and perhaps it will evolve into a new pricing model for commercial real estate that goes beyond how much have I sold out of that particular store. Interesting. Claudia, do you want to comment? I think in our shopping malls, we're doing exactly the same. What we're seeing is in prime real estate in Europe, we're actually not developing any more malls. We're getting ours better and better. But we're developing sort of multi-use centers where people will have the office, they'll have stores, they'll have leisure, fitnesses, and we see that as a trend because those city centers, it depends if a country to country, but people would have huge commutes, they would retail would be very spread and it would be drivable. And as people spend more time at home, they sort of want to live in a walkable to shop and leisure. And so we see city centers becoming sort of more human-sized and where people will support, they'll do parks, they'll probably be a mall, but also on the street, they will have more cycling. And so we see this need for retail also to go into these built-in uses. And even office buildings, if these office buildings that in the theme of stay-at-home economy, if you have an office building where everybody just went every single day and sat at that desk and went and left in the evening and as companies are saying, please come to work because it's more fun than it used to be, you need to give motives to do so. And so these office buildings will also change. I think in partnerships also with the local authorities, we need to defend the high street. People, if you went to the high street in COVID times, it was a very sad place to go, right? The business is shut, nobody on the street. And I think when people stay at home to work three days a week, when they go to the high street, they need a lively experience. So I think together in shopping malls, high streets, we need to get back that energy and that people seeing people. Let me turn to you and ask you, we've heard you talk about concerns about inflation. And this is a concern not just for you, but for all mayors. So are there actions that you are collectively considering or advocating that would improve the situation and how can the private sector work with city leaders to achieve better outcomes for residents and for city life? You know, thanks for the question. It's a comprehensively complex macro problem, inflation. And I think it's been exacerbated. The government spending or excess government spending has been happening for a while, right? The federal government has been spending significantly more than it takes in for a long time. And I think part of the reason why it didn't catch up was because a supply chain was able to deliver, right? This excess demand, every time there was more demand and more demand, it was met with the supply. Now that you have a world shortage in supply, that's when the problem comes. When you have overheated demand in terms of money creation without sufficient supply. I think part of the issue is, and I was talking about this last night at the dinners, the demand part of it is still not stopping. And what do I mean by that? The federal government in the US alone, this is just the US I'm talking about, passed a $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill. Now that was very needed. We needed an infrastructure bill. And if you think about it, it was bipartisan, right? In the sense that former President Trump wanted a $1.5 billion infrastructure bill. The current President Biden passed with some help from Republicans, a $1.2, so that's a slightly smaller bill. I think the problem was not so much the bill or the need for the bill, which it obviously is needed. It was the fact that it was done, again through deficit spending. And in an era where you have supply chain issues, right, which exacerbates the price problem. The real issue here, and the real scary part, because there was a big debate last night at dinner about whether we're gonna go into a recession, and if so, when will that happen? Will it be next year or not? The reason why I think it's at least more than 12 months away is because that $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill still has not begun to be spent. So that's $1.2 trillion unspent dollars. Now let me go back to the prior bill, which is ARPA, American Rescue Plan, right? That's a $1.9 trillion spending bill. Again, through deficit spending. That was supposed to be divvied out, I say divvied out, was given to governments like ours, in two tranches. The first tranche was $950 billion. That is not completely spent. So that money is not completely spent. The other $950 billion hasn't even been given. So you're talking about $2.1 trillion plus, plus, plus of unspent demand money, right? Money in the money supply that obviously once it gets spent, put into bank accounts, then it gets multiplied, so there's a money multiplication factor there. So the point I'm trying to make is I don't know what, if anything, can stop inflation over the next 12 to 24 months. I don't know if there's anything that a city can do to stop inflation over the next 12 to 24 months. I think what we need to do is communicate better, right? And I'll give you an example. I was recently in, coming out of a different conference and I was with the mayor of Austin, Dallas and New York, right? And we're sitting down in an informal setting and we're both marveling at the fact that we have over 50% increase in rental rates, right? And that affects retail because the more money you have to pay in rent, the less money, obviously, that you can pay in retail. But that's a very, very real phenomenon for all of those cities. It's not a Miami thing. It's not an Austin thing. It's not a Denver thing. It's not a New York thing. It is an America thing. And so it's a major issue. The second issue is when you consider the fact that purchasing power is going down, right? So when you talk about retail, since I always try to bring it back to the topic, you know, purchasing power is being reduced through inflation and you have, you know, poorest people in this country are not getting a return on their investment because most of them have their money in bank accounts so they're not getting any interest. They're losing purchasing power. It's kind of a tough situation. So I feel that the best thing that cities can do, first of all, is acknowledge the problem, acknowledge where it's coming from, and then clearly communicate to people. You know, obviously the Fed is now raising interest rates to try to curb inflation and curb, you know, some of these factors and that could put us into a recession, whether it's in 12 months, 24 months, or 36 months. So that's a big concern because, you know, you're going from rapid inflation to then a recession, it's painful for people, particularly people living in cities. Can you envision any kind of partnerships with people in real estate that could help the situation? You know, we're always looking for, you know, creative solutions and I'll give you one that we were working with this organization called City Coin that created something called Miami Coin and it created $15 million in benefits for the city. We took $5 million of that and we created a rent stabilization fund for people whose rents had gone up by more than 20% in any given year. So we're always trying to be creative. I would urge cities to be creative. The private sector wants to help. The private sector, we're their customers. If our customers, if their customers are not healthy, they're not going to be healthy. So I've always found the private sector to be a willing participant and desirous of wanting to create solutions and the real estate community does as well. Ahmed, do you wanna? Yeah, I mean, one big area for that partnership that the mayor has rightly flagged is around data exchange. And obviously, you know, there is a lot of concern around sharing data with governments, especially sort of consumer data. But let's pick another example. Let's pick traffic data. I mean, it would be great for all of our shopping malls parking systems, for instance. And we're working on that. And all of the multi-use assets that we have that have big parking demands and in and out vehicles, deliveries, et cetera, for that parking system data to be integrated with the wider traffic management system of the city. I mean, this creates a much more efficient experience for customers. It's great for the city. It's great for the environment. So I think there needs to be a lot more work in building these data exchanges between the business community, the real estate assets and the city to benefit customers, tenants, and the community. I'll give you another example. City of New York just introduced letter grading for buildings based on sustainability. If you're A, you're a sustainable building. If you're an F, you're not so sustainable, so to speak. It would be great for that data to be made transparent to consumers. So if I'm booking a ride or if I'm leasing space or if I'm staying in a hotel, it unleashes the consumer advocacy in a way to reward businesses that are more sustainable, which creates, obviously, multiple opportunities for growth in the city and as well, weed out the less efficient assets. So there are multiple opportunities in that regard and I fully endorse the point made earlier. Thank you. I do want to give the audience a chance to ask some questions. If you want to have a question over here, there's a mic right on your other side. I know as a consumer, when I go to a city and I want to feel a vibrant community, I do hit the big shops and I do go to the H&M or whatever's there. But the one thing that I think adds a lot of life to a city and perhaps you could talk to it is the small, medium-sized enterprise, the art gallery, the artists and the small boutique shops and how does that fit into your picture and what you're promoting? Thank you. First of all, I think small businesses power the country and none of them do they power the country in a numerical sense when you consider a percentage of the whole, but they also give character to cities. And so I think we in Miami lean into that. We think that having a vibrant small business culture is something that is positive. What I see happening even in the sort of city center concept because we actually have a city center too, it's called Brickle City Center and it's a beautiful multi-billion dollar development by Swire Properties. And they want a piece of that too. Why? Because it goes back to the experiences that we're talking about. It's not the same to go to a sort of cookie cutter restaurant than it is to go to a uniquely owned family restaurant where things are being done in a very, very different and exciting and cool way. That's what we talk about when we talk about experiences. So I actually think open stores, a good concept open store is sort of what they do is they buy small businesses to curate and create an internet platform for a business to consumer or a consumer to consumer where they're actually curating and developing this sort of uniqueness as opposed to just getting the same old brands that you're used to. So I think there's, again, in terms of the disruption of this world, there's a huge opportunity there. I just want to say two quick things. One based on what was just said, which is I do think there's a place for partnership with electric vehicles. When you look at electric vehicle infrastructure, cities should be creating tax benefits for city centers to become, to have more electric vehicle infrastructure because that's a trend that's happening and the second little vignette that I would say is generational, right? We're talking about disruptions in our generation, right? But my son is already in the metaverse, right? He's in Minecraft, which is, you know, this is the metaverse, by the way. Our phones are metaverse, right? The time that we spend in our phones, and you can get a weekly report if you really want to scare yourself. The time we spend, we're spending in a metaverse. It's just a different kind of metaverse. It's not with the goggles and all that, but we are spending our time in that portal. Our children are spending more time in that portal. It's just inevitable, it's part of life. Question over here. How about turning the malls into, so for example, when I'm on the internet, I get suggestions. The internet knows me. And now with this metaverse, do you think that these big malls will have facial recognition? I walk into a mall, or like, in order to bring more retailers into the mall. You walk into the mall, you walk into a store, there's facial recognition. They know. Fatma, she likes this, I walk into a restaurant, facial recognition. They know what I like, so they can suggest making it a more personable, more fun experience for myself, since each and every one of us is gonna have different types of enjoyment of experience, but turning the mall into a place where you walk in, and I know it's kind of scary because it's like invasion of, but it's already there. Our privacy has already been invaded when we enter Google. Why not do the same for the malls making our experiences better, where we don't have to try on clothes in the shopping mall? We get the clothes, we look at ourself in the mirror, and it's already on us, like completely turning it into a more, do you see the future turning into something, retail turning into something like that? I do. To be honest with you, it's more the present, the near present than the distant future. And we made big investments in that regard to build infrastructure. From a consumer perspective, it's a bit polarized. There are people who love that experience and are willing to give their data to be offered a highly personalized, targeted experience, and on the other side of the spectrum, we know customers who find that creepy and intrusive and they don't want to. So I think we need to cater to both. Today, especially on the luxury front, we do identify our luxury customers. We're able to offer them a personalized parking experience, personalized shopping experience, delivery to their home or their vehicle and lounges, et cetera. So we're able to personalize that experience for customers who allow us to do so. And it's very important to have that connection and dialogue. What we've also discovered is that sometimes, and certain retailers know more about their customers than we do, but in some instances, we're adding a bit of a dimension to them so that data interchange in a very privacy-respectful way is very important for the experience to remain relevant. I want to go back to the question around SMEs and the clings to the experience point. I mentioned earlier we're dedicating spaces within our malls, and my colleague Sharim is here. She came up with a concept called that in our most premium asset, that essentially is space for local designers, up-and-coming artists, food that you typically would want to enjoy local food that would be available to you in a very different type of experience within the mall. And it's very important that this space is sort of underwritten by the owner because it's very cheap for an SME to come into that space if they fail, they can get out. Otherwise, they're on the hook for a three-year lease and fit out, et cetera. So these kinds of spaces to bring in that sense of community into shopping centers is something that I think is here to say. And by the way, what we're very excited about is some of the brands that we bring into these sort of temporary pop-up spaces eventually graduate and become fantastic brands. So we see that ongoing in Egypt, in the UAE, in Saudi Arabia, which is also part of our real estate being a platform for the community to create opportunities for everyone and not just global or nationally established retailers. Thank you. I think, Claudia, did you want to add to that? Yes. I think to the point of going to a mall or to a store and being immediately recognized, I would go more the route of what are the pain points in the in-store shopping and try to solve those because I don't think you can have the same experience in an in-store than online and you really probably don't need to be recognized as you go walk-ins. But when you look at the pain points of shopping offline, it's the time you pay. Normally, you probably spend there more time than shopping. And so cashless payments, mobile systems payments, or for example, information when you're online. You have exactly all the information about a product when you're on-store. You don't. So QR codes, RFID. So trying to go to the pain points of the unique experience of in-store and solving those, but keeping the good things of the in-store and trying things on is probably one of the reasons people go to the store. So I think they are very complementary. And we do have customers who deliberately want to remain anonymous. Let's be very clear about that. They do not want anyone to know. And this is part of life. And generation. Absolutely. I think younger people give their information more freely than older people. Mayor, you want to chat? As sort of thinking of the next generation to your point, because you actually brought up a great point on the in-store retail experience, but by doing that, you also articulated another point, which is the way we're being offered products is so much more intelligent online than it is in person. So it's sort of the flip of the exact same point that you made, which is a huge disadvantage to in-store versus online. The computer through its algorithms and through its aggregation of data is feeding you what you want. I'll give you an example. I love sunglasses. I'm a sunglasses guy, right? So I feel like when I'm on Instagram, every third ad is a sunglass ad. Like they're trying to, because they know I love sunglasses and it's almost like an addiction for me to buy sunglasses. So I keep getting fed sunglasses, sunglasses, all kinds of sunglasses and I buy them every once in a while. I think whether it's facial recognition or whatever the technology ends up becoming because I understand the privacy concerns about facial recognition or whatever, there will be, there will have to be. For in-stores to be able to compete with online shopping, there has to be some intelligent upgrade, right? To the experience. Because you walk into a store and, you know, particularly for men, I'm not trying to be sexist or anything like that. I don't shop that much in-store, but I go into a store and I feel like I am lost completely. It would be wonderful if the floor started, you know, kind of like lighting up little lights, okay, you're supposed to go here, here and then all of a sudden I'm right in front of the shirt that I was thinking about buying or you have an app in your phone that's telling you, hey, what you're looking for is over there, or whatever it is. I think the point you're trying to make is a great point, which is the in-store experience has to become smarter to compete with the virtual experience, which has become very smart. Thank you very much, Mark. The last word, we're almost out of time. You're quick. I think at least for the moment we've lost the privacy game because we've all committed, young people have committed the information that's out there on all of us. By the way, your badges, if you go on your website right now, you can see if there's somebody you need to talk to, right? So we've all in some form, you know, some form we've given up the right, you know, the right to privacy and made certain information available. There are micro units of residential being built in China with the magic mirror where you're brushing your teeth, the toothpaste tube is empty and the magic mirror says, I will order your toothpaste now. These advances are here, okay? What we do about them, if we wanna regulate them, it's, you know, it's coming. You know, in this part of a point that I wanted to get to before when we were talking about public-private, we do have to come back to a security, right? Because that is something, whether it's security in the metaverse security, you know, on the internet or the physical security of cities, retail will benefit from private working with public, right? And we have many instances right now, for example, in the UK, we're tearing down them all and putting in a park, but you have to bring police around and make sure that it's, you know, a livable environment. So all of these privacy issues and whether we're being tracked, there's also a responsibility that we're gonna be talking about soon. Obviously, we don't have the time to deal, you know, with how we're gonna work together to make it secure. Thank you. So we have to wrap up. I think the key takeaways here are that brick and mortar stores, including SMEs, have a very important role to play in the vibrancy and financial health. I mean, even the security of cities that technology will play more and more of an important role in store. And that we also need to find ways to better leverage the data, not just for the retailers, but also to exchange with government and to form more public-private partnerships. So with that, I'd like to thank the panelists and everyone in the audience for participating this morning. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.