 Since I brought up John Peterson, so he uses this term, he talks a lot about meaning, the meaning of your life and where you get that meaning. And I think he has, I don't completely understand what he means by it, but he has a kind of a metaphysical view of meaning that's out there and you need to discover it and bring it into your life. But objectivism has an important view on what it means to live a meaningful life, to have meaning in your life. Maybe talk a little bit about that. Yeah, I don't know much about Peterson's view. I've seen some of his videos that I haven't read, read either of his books. But I do think there's an important aspect to this idea of meaning in life. One, and again, it's not unique to Peterson. A lot of people have talked about this, that you want your life to be about something. You want your life to add up to something. You want your life to have some significance to you. And I think that's what the idea of meaning in life is. And the objectivist view is that the meaning of your life is something you have to make. You have to choose not discover as something that's preset and you find the script that you're meant to follow. Which is in a way the Stoic view. Somebody mentioned Stoicism on one of the Facebook chats. But rather that you create something for your life to be about. And there's a beautiful scene in the Fountainhead, 75th anniversary of the Fountainhead just now, where Rourke is asked about the meaning of life or the topic of the meaning of life comes up. And Rourke grabs a, I guess, a thick tree branch and bends it effortfully and says, so now it's in his control, right? And he shaped it. And he said, now I can make a railing out of it or this out of it or that of it and goes to the list of things he could do with it now that he's kind of understood how it works and shaped it to his will. And that's the meaning of life. And why didn't he, he's talking to, he says, your strength. And he says, no, I forget the exact words, but your work, what you choose to make of things. And it's the idea that there are kind of natural materials out in the world and natural materials in yourself, whatever aptitudes you have or abilities or whatever it is, which can be further developed. But things in you, things in the world, things in your circumstance, you find yourself with those things, but you don't find in the same way something to do with your life. You make something to do with your life and you make it by integrating the kind of primitive early values you have, the things that you're interested in before you have a, you know, worked out purpose for your life, before you have a career plan, before you're in love with someone maybe, but you have things that appeal to you and there are reasons why they appeal to you. And you think about what those are. You think about how they relate to each other. You think of what the causes and effects are. You think in some form, maybe not as articulately as I'm going to say, about what it is that a human being needs in order to survive and be happy. And that's things like a productive career, things like relationships that highlight and emphasize the values that are most important to him and let him experience them. And other such things, you think about all these things and you think given my interests and my skills and the society that I'm in, what life can I make for myself that I would enjoy living that puts these together into a set of goals or a picture of what my life can be? And you build your life like that in the way that you can build an artwork. And when you've done that, then your life becomes about something and it has meaning for you and it's valuable to you. And each of the individual bits of things that you were already attracted to or already enjoyed that you put into it become more enjoyable to you, more valuable to you because they're part of this self-reinforcing whole. And it's a process that like creating an artwork happens over time, you have to iterate it, maybe you change careers and you think then in changing careers about how your old career and your new career relate what you're taking from the old one to the new one, you become a podcast host or something. And we've all had to do this and you've been around in my process of trying to do this and we've talked about things and it's, but that's a process of thinking about what is it that I like about what I do? And why do I like it and how can I have more of that and how does that relate to the other things I want is where I live very important to me and why and how does that relate to my other value and thinking about how to make something out of that. And that's what gives meaning to your life and the fact that you're being productive that you're creating things that are of value to other people and other people matter is because if you're in a vision of labor economy you're somehow by creating values that are things valuable also to other people you're able to make a living and to survive. That's part of it but it's not that it's because it's good to them that it's meaningful. It's finding a way to make money doing things you love is part of how you make doing things you love a part of your life and rather than a kind of hobby on the outside of your life and finding or that's peripheral to your life and finding a way to make the thing that you do make the world better better by your own judgment better such that you can do more things like this in a world like that and the people you love can is also part of having your values together and integrated and part of a whole where each one reinforces the other. And that's the kind of thing that I think gives meaning to a life not it's not something you find except in the way that you might think you find the idea for an artwork or a paper you write it can seem like something you happen upon but it's something you create and you evaluate. So how would you differentiate meaning from purpose within the objectivist? I don't think they're really that different. I don't think of meaning in life as a technical term in the way that purpose is. The purpose is the central value around which you integrate your life in one sense of purposes and another sense a purpose is a thing that you're consciously pursuing. I think of meaning as the experiential side of that. So the experiencing of the things you're pursuing as worth pursuing, the experiencing of your life as adding up to something rather as therefore as purposeful as a whole rather than as many discrete episodes that don't have any significance to you. It's the kind of experienced and intelligible value of your life as a whole, the direction you're going in as a whole. Good.