 Hello. So my name is Jim Carafano. I am the, I will see the Foreign Defense Policy at the Heritage Foundation and I want to thank you for being here. I want to thank Nancy Lindborg, Andrew Wilder, and Moide Yosef for co-sponsoring this very special event with us from the Heritage Foundation. In fact, this is the third major South Asia event we've co-hosted with the Institute of Peace and I particularly want to thank Lisa Curtis who's been a great partner in working with the Institute. I'm a huge fan of the Institute. We just had an event here two weeks ago where we symbolized the passing of the guard from the previous national security team and team to the new team. And I think it's just reflective of the kinds of very special things that USIP does in terms of bringing people together to talk about important things. We did a program with them on Afghanistan 2013. We did a tremendous program with them on Sri Lanka last year, which is a country that doesn't get enough attention in the United States and maybe a country being cursed with getting too much attention in the United States. We're happy to do a program on Pakistan. The US-Pakistan relation is multifaceted and I think one of the things I most enjoy about working with USIP and about our joint program is it's not just about countering terrorism but it's about this desire among all of us to really grow that relationship on the economic, political, diplomatic level and not just on the national security issues and we share common interests and goals and especially seeing Pakistan prosper and develop into a stable democracy free of terrorism and extremism. We're encouraged by Pakistan's first ever peaceful transfer of power from one elected government to another and Lisa and I had an opportunity to be in Islamabad last year and talk with a lot of the public officials about the state of civil society and politics and we're hopeful that this is the new norm. This is why and it's fitting to hear and address today from Balawu Bouter Zardari. The Pakistan People's Party has been at the forefront of the democratic movement in Pakistan and I don't think it's a truism. It's a truism that's recognized here in the United States and I think you have a great deal of admiration of people here for that and he have been steadfast behind democratic liberal values like freedom of religion, freedom of the press and strong judiciary. Your leaders have fought against extremist trends in the country. Your mother paid for her life when she was assassinated by extremists in 2007 and she bravely fought to bring democracy back to her country. More recently Pakistan has taken on this extremist threat military operations in the tribal areas and with the adoption of the national action plan working more consciously to eliminate terrorism. This has helped reduce the terror threat in Pakistan and I think recognized in the region as a whole and I did observe that progress first time and Lisa and I were there a year ago and we received briefings from politicians as well and military leaders and I must say we're excited because we're planning on going back this summer again and we really look forward to future exchanges. As we all know we have a new administration and we all have lots of questions on what its policies particularly would be in South Asia. We know for one thing that it's committed to battling transnational terrorism and we know that's a topic on which we share but there is so much more to the relationship and so much more to be done. We're very excited to have you here today. So it's a brief biography but I think biographies are very telling right and this one I think is probably the most telling biography I have ever read of a speaker. My mother used to say democracy is the best revenge. Raul said this in a fern tone when he was made the chairperson of the Pakistani People's Party after his mother was assassinated in 2007. He is the eldest son of three children the former prime minister of Pakistan. He was born on the 21st September 1988 and I remarked that because I actually have shirts older than that so I just no I think it's extraordinary that not only not only do we have a you know a new generation of global leaders on the stage but a new generation of leaders in extraordinary countries that need new leadership and I just think it is one of the most remarkable things. He has expressed his desire for his country to become democratic as the founding father intended it to be and champion his parents struggle and this to me is the most telling thing and I think this is super important. He was awarded a BA in honors from modern history and politics from Oxford University which I think is is okay except it is the same degree classification and percentage as his mother so he's matched her academically and he'll probably usurp her politically so with that please welcome into the stage. Thank you thank you for inviting me to speak here today. It is an honor to have the opportunity to speak to the best and the brightest minds in Washington DC. I have to say that so that you don't ask me any tough questions later. I am grateful to both the United States Institute of Peace and the Heritage Foundation for affording me the time and place. I believe we are all taking stock of the deep change going through our world today and as I stand here the fault lines between ideas, nations and comforting certainties cut through the globe from one end to another. Without a doubt history will remember this time as as a deeply dividing era where a shared vision of order and interdependence has been replaced by angry nationalism and hard red lines that exclude. This in my view must not be the new normal. I say this because this is a worrying moment for Muslim countries and even more so for the millions dispossessed by conflict and deprivation. The failures of the international order now and worse disarray than ever before have left almost a generation without shelter and what I call guaranteed liberties. The spread of terrorism and violent extremism has redefined our lives in ways we could not imagine with multiple ground zeros threatening to burn down the rubble of our hard fought freedoms. Such tumult either readies the spine for hard choices or tosses commitment out the door. I for one know which side of history some of us will stand. Ladies and gentlemen we in Pakistan too have fought a very hard fight for our women and men to vote and we continue another fight now for our millennials and children to breathe air free of insecurity hate and extremism. Today when I see around me a world polarized by dangerous inequalities and tribalisms it is troubling to see a retreat to the insular as the one defining response to a fear of the unknown and the other. This shrinks the space for moderate progressive Muslims like myself to fight for open minds and common ground. I speak for one such nation known and otherized in Washington as both a partner and a frenemy. Many of you with experience and better wisdom know that Pakistan is not one color let alone a purveyor of terror which it is often reduced to in a thumbnail sketch of its identity and brand. So when in this great city my country's image is painted into a monochrome I worry that perhaps the world has chosen to misjudge us while we too have not done such a great job of telling our story. What I do know is in this moment Pakistan has much to say and contribute. Against a long history of authoritarianism we as a nation of 200 million people have put our faith in democracy and constitutionalism. Indeed for many of us it is not a term that we take lightly. We can't just toss it around as a five-year process that brings us to power but instead must nourish it as that very thing that many from my party my family the Pakistan people's party died defending as the essential flame that lights our path in illiberal times. Without buying into the victim narrative let me just say that we in Pakistan know what it costs to fight a long war. My mother Benazir Puto Pakistan's twice elected prime minister led us fearlessly into fighting the next great battle of the millennia. She went into a public campaign against terrorism and with her face to the sun went down fighting. This is the price we pay every day in soldier and civilian lives yet we have not veered from her heroic path nor walked away from commitments made to Pakistan. As an emerging democracy which I'm proud to say my party did the heavy lift on building we are doing everything in our power to turn a corner. We have in my father's in my father's term created a new social contract for Pakistan in the hope of readying it for better governance in the shape of the 18th constitutional amendment. This has retooled the federation to be more fiscally responsive to the needs of the provinces and the people who are still in desperate need of the state's social services. By devolving a decisive chunk of power to the national parliament and its provincial assemblies our government paved the way for reviving the broken structures of local governance but we have a long road ahead of us. I am painfully conscious of all the work we have to do to make a dent in the cycle in this circle of disrepair our education and healthcare sectors have fallen into. In fact if there's one thing that keeps me up at night it's the state of public health services and the staggering demographic that is still not in schools or remains unemployed after college. I'm not one to oversell our strategic location but it does pivot us at a unique node of many potential regional collaborations yet instead of passing on the dividends of connectivity we remain trapped in its nemesis the corrosive flame of conflict. It is indeed a failure of the region's leadership that South and Central Asia is unable to grow its potential as an economic and energy powerhouse. It is also a failure of the international community's stated commitment to peace that we see no great powers rushing to nudge India and Pakistan to resolve one of the oldest disputes on the UN's roster of forgotten flashpoints. I point to Kashmir which is the most glaring bone of dangerous contention between two nuclear neighbors. While it has become the norm to put it aside as an intractable problem I see no future of prosperity or stability for the region when hundreds and thousands of Kashmiris are left behind by the march of a manufactured illiberal consensus of silence. Afghanistan is another place which is crucial to Pakistan's stability. We are very clear that Afghan leaders are the only people the only people who can craft new bargains for their government between the resistance and others. At every point since democratic governments have taken a hold in Pakistan we have strived to bring whatever leverage we have on the Taliban fighters to the table but it cannot be Pakistan's sole responsibility. Today we are open to playing any constructive role in Afghanistan's sputtering peace and reconciliation process as long as Kabul takes the lead. Nothing Islamabad can do will hold as a political bargain if the Afghans are not able to triangulate the leadership of such a deal themselves. It is entirely up to it is entirely up to the Afghans to ensure that freedoms gained by women in civil society and constitutionalism are not rolled back but it looks very difficult for them in the absence of unity in Kabul, security in the rest of Afghanistan and economic depth to meet the crisis that the United Nations is talking about since last week. For over 30 years Pakistan has hosted and welcomed Afghan refugees and students in a world where borders are closing to distressed victims of conflict. We have never closed our doors even when we could not afford the camps and the fallout of war that followed. Our encounter with America and Afghanistan began in the Soviet jihad but now we are left alone to fight off its terrible harvest of terror guns and extremism. Islamic extremism is not a tap that can be turned on and turned off. It leaves entire countries in chaos struggling with scant resources to fight off the narrative and the conflict, the guns and the narcotic trade that such wars bring with it. I'm always amazed at the narrow lens through which a country like Pakistan is viewed here in policy circles and when an impossible task is not completed or ticked off as mission accomplished in a box. We are told that failure came down because we pulled the rug. This is not a serious view of a world undergoing serious conflict especially where the advance of groups such as Daesh or ISIS as they are known is a factor we all have to contend with. Any counter-terror plan or CVE initiative needs sustained partnerships, implicit trust and a willingness to see the strategic landscape as complex, changing and long-term. But in Afghanistan we saw billions of dollars poured down a huge multi-country effort as a long war with no end with constant shifting goals and strategies. At every point as a neighbour with an open border we said don't do this, don't play favourites in Afghanistan because we learnt not to do that, the hard way. But no one heard us. We were just the partner who could be held responsible when nothing else worked. Afghanistan makes its own decisions because when someone else does that, whether donor or hegemon, the results are almost always disastrous. Where do we go from here with Pakistan-U.S. relations going through a new cycle? It's a new cycle because I get the sense that we are the dispensable ally once again. All I want to say is that whenever the international community has called on Pakistan to take a stand at every turn of history we have given our shoulder to the wheel of joining effort and manpower. But I don't want to make today's intervention about our bilateral relationship because it will go where it will go. These are uncertain times in America's policy establishment as well. So it's best to see which way the leaves fall. I know you are all eager to hear about what's happening in Pakistan today. We are fighting the largest inland war against terrorism and violent extremism. And it seems that we're doing this entirely on our own. This always has to be a coordinated national effort. And the Pakistan People's Party has always led the fight even when no one in Pakistan was ready to even to talk about these challenges. We led the military offensive on Swarth in the spring of 2009 when the Taliban were advancing in a very in a dangerous new attack on Pakistan's terrain in the north. We were actually able to forge a national consensus in parliament and jointly take this battle to its logical conclusion. At no point did we imagine it would be over in a decade or even longer. But we never imagined that we would be left to fight it all along our borders as well as inland alone. We leave partisan politics at the border, but I do believe that we need to do better on the civilian component of fighting violent extremism. The military has been busy clearing terrain in north and south of Zuristan. And in the south the province of Sin that my party governs has been fighting back with unprecedented resolve. But we still need clarity and focus, clarity and focus on pockets of the Punjab. The famous national action plan that all political parties committed to after the heinous attacks on the army public school in Peshawar by the Taliban still needs much work and more resources. It needs the federal government to face off against militants who have gained strength since the days of General Zia al-Haq and the Soviet jihad with more decisive action. This is not the time for anyone to give up fighting this war. And in fact it is time we took the fight to the next level which is concerted leadership against extremists, against hate speech, against people who make bargains with militants. It is with this in mind that I say democracy is the answer for Pakistan. When no majorities ever vote in extremist religious parties but it seems the world is shrinking the space for constitutional protections we all hold dear. We will not tap into hate as a vote-getter. We will always strive to fight for protections for women, for minorities, for the most vulnerable whether they inherit the earth or not. In a planet that is under severe stress by conflict and climate change I am very clear for instance that we have to lead the way in educating our people in the value of earth's depleting resources. For Pakistan and even Indian Asia climate change is a very real danger with my country actually on the front line of recurring natural disasters, flooding and droughts. As one of the ten most water stressed countries of the world I know Pakistan cannot afford to be cavalier about shared resources. So I hope the current government in India does not repeat its threat of using human entitlements such as water as a weapon. Some of you may recall that one of the world's most successful water treaties actually holds down the distribution agreements between India and Pakistan brokered by the World Bank in the 1960s enduring several wars as well as a fog of cold peace. Threatening this treaty's abrogation is one example of how extremist postures in the region are failing the people of South Asia blocking us from realizing our potential as an engine of Asian and global growth. Our shared population explosion in South Asia already home to one-fifth of humanity puts us in no position to normalize the language of war and exclusion as a policy tool. Yet temperatures are rising all round. I know that the world is facing multiple traumas many of them from economic or social turbulence. Countries such as China are stepping into economic leadership forums in Asia projecting the kind of soft power that the United States once invented. In Pakistan we welcome all such investments in our economic growth and hope that this enduring relationship is not seen as a site for great power competition. Without putting too fine a point on it I do want to say that we in Pakistan are not the problem. In fact we see ourselves as part of a future where solutions are joint, inclusionary and sustainable. The United States is our largest trading partner and has been a beacon of freedom and democracy for many of us growing up in a dystopian world. I only hope that this new millennium does not bring does not bring with it darker times for the growing world disorder where humanity is not often seen as a core value but trumped too often by security as a negotiable sideshow. I honestly believe that it's easiest to be generous when there are no challenges to comfort or peace and nations character only gets tested when it's under stress and must make serious choices. It is those choices that will lay out the way we will deal with each other as nations, as states and as individuals. I am confident that through the democratic process despite its imperfections Pakistan will find its way through the dark. Thank you for listening so patiently I look forward to interacting with you for the next hour. Thank you Mr. Bhuttozardari for that very comprehensive talk. So what we'll do now is open it up for a moderated conversation. I have a couple of questions of my own and then we'll open it up for an audience Q&A. As you ask your question please do identify yourself and keep your question as brief as possible. Questions are better than comments always. Let me begin by asking you since you talked about it in this town there's a lot of concern about the region itself nuclear weapons Afghanistan Pakistan India Pakistan where do we put Pakistan's neighbors because as we see it here apart from China and I'll come to that seems that all other neighbors have some or the other problem in terms of Pakistan's policy radiating instability outside or at least that's that's the perception you mentioned Afghan refugees and you rightly said that Pakistan hosted them for a long time I also agree they were catastrophic on the part of an error on the part of the world to let Pakistan loose if you will after the Soviet jihad but what about now we are seeing Afghan refugees being pushed out we're seeing the neighbors talk about Pakistan talk about the Iran refugees being pushed out and that I think would is not the best approach to dealing with the situation but it's Mr. Sharif's government and that's that's his approach to the situation and I think that's where it comes back to the foreign policy question you need a strong foreign policy there's always going to be issues and concerns and differences that can be addressed when you have that foreign policy leadership back home unfortunately what we've seen over the course of the last couple of years is that each one of our neighbors have our relationship has deteriorated I mean I remember during my father's swearing in Mr. Kazai was there in Pakistan our relationships with our neighbors in Iran were far better than they are today we obviously initiated the CPAC my father visited China nine to ten times when he was president and he also kept engaged despite difficulties despite Mumbai and all the things with India so it requires that leadership which is lacking at the moment in Pakistan foreign policy which seems to be all over the place and doesn't have that consistency so you mentioned CPAC and I was a bit struck that you didn't when you spoke because that's everything one talks about in Pakistan as as we can tell sitting here there is also a concern on CPAC even though I would say majority view is that it's very good for Pakistan if Pakistan stabilizes through this infusion of capital but the question is is this being seen in Pakistan as a substitute for the partnership with the US so if the US partnership doesn't work out then here is China because some of the conversation in the political sphere has been in that state and there's some concern in this town I pick up on that I certainly don't see it as that I mean the the it's it's extremely encouraging that China has stepped up and and agreed to invest so much in Pakistan and working together especially economically providing opportunities within Pakistan is a good thing but we shouldn't see it as as exclusionary I would like all countries to come and invest in Pakistan I mean we are the United States is our largest trading partner but there's so much more that we could do and this is a time when the world was looking it was being more insular this is post the financial crisis that we were going everywhere trying to create a more meaningful relationship between Pakistan and the world it was not just trans just transactions through aid and we talked even here in the United States about and and in the west about the friends of democratic Pakistan and about and in Europe with the GPS plus data so there's a lot of things that we worked on but given the economic restraints in the rest of the world and and concerns about extremism and the way that the rest of the world is sort of used aid or as a bargaining chip rather than as a test of our relationship sort of means that China came out ahead with CPAC so I think in some ways we link to that and I would say this was the same when the Pakistan people's party was ruling I think one of the questions raised in this town often is the publicity that China gets in terms of its interactions with Pakistan or a Saudi Arabia or other countries versus the US where the perception of Pakistan is of the US has been you know as low as single digits and now it seems to be around 20 25 percent but it's not it's definitely been very negative for a partner that's invested so much in Pakistan you know there's a figure of over 30 billion since 2001 why is it ultimately that the US does not get credit for that? I think that if you're looking for credit or this is a sort of transactional relationship and that's what's going to happen and that's what's going to trickle true to be seen as I mean I that the publicity question is is is required to sink is of late yes I think that America sort of seen as less than it was in its engagements before but if you remember during the Bush and the Bush administration and the Musharraf dictatorship there was a lot of promotion of the Pakistan US partnership at that time but unfortunately for whatever reason we've given the impression that it's give or take rather than a real relationship but I think that if we and I don't think that's true I think that the Pakistani people and the American people can develop a true partnership our students come over here and study at universities we enjoy this so this this far more common ground for us and if that was pushed then I think that that perception you're talking about it's perhaps a student not really focused on security for the yes and I think the danger is now that it's going to continue to do rather than sort of broaden how we interact with each other we would continue to only focus on that one point agenda sure let me pivot quickly to domestic politics and you spoke a lot about where Pakistan stands and PPP's sacrifices and stands on democracy but one of the questions that's often raised is PPP's own governance you know sin of course your party rules the province before that PPP was ruling the national coalition same kind of allegation same kind of question same kind of you know the conversation about weak governance has been therefore sinned as much as it's been for other provinces some would argue perhaps even more would you argue that the PPP itself has done enough to show the people of Pakistan in terms of governance that it deserves to be back where it was it's always more than needs to be done what the Pakistan people's party has done is managed to deliver on a whole host of fronts whether you're interested in the democratic framework in Pakistan which is a huge huge step the 18th amendment was no joke it's something that my mother worked for for 30 years of her political life and and devolution and all those sort of institutional constitutional rejigging of the system that devolves power makes more close to the people of Pakistan is also important if you're looking at landmark projects in areas of human development that is where we we focus and we're extremely proud of projects like the Benazir income support program that is hugely successful and loaded all over the world for for benefiting the poorest of the poor and so if you talk about governance and you talk about delivery you talk about those elements if it's women's rights or minorities rights is like I know that there's lots of room for improvement not only in government the governance but service delivery overall but I'm proud to say that I know that my government in sin stands by women as equal citizens to men it stands by minorities in sin we've passed legislation like the Hindu marriage bill and others that takes real and genuine leadership in Pakistan having we've also got a new chief minister who's the youngest and the most highly educated chief minister in Pakistan who's working around the clock to address that perception in a discrepancy in the way we govern but I think that we govern through the democratic framework and mr the sheriffs have set up their own their own model which we will draw a heavy contrast with in the next election they rely the seatback which we were discussing earlier is also a big deliverable of the Pakistan people's party so it's about framing those things but there's absolutely a no going there's no taking away from the fact that we have to address governance and service delivery across Pakistan and I look forward to doing that let me ask you you mentioned minorities and that's certainly an area where the people's party could hold its head high in terms of what you've achieved overall though minorities remain a serious issue every single reporter data point you pick up there's a lot more to be done where do you see that going the the bill absolutely in the same government of you know preventing forced conversions absolutely a forward step but what's next here how do you break the frontier of this has to be consistent leadership on this issue and that's something that I'm proud of the fact that the Pakistan people's party has done what is encouraging now is rather than the hostility that we used to receive for these sort of actions from parties like the more conservative PMLN is we're now seeing an attempt to incorporate or to try and to follow us on this so I think if we if we manage by taking the lead to form more of a national consensus around this and ensure that other parties rather than are proud to do the same things and take the same efforts to treat all citizens as equals then we'll be able to take this fight forward but it's a huge long uphill challenge that we have to do that's coming under attack from unconventional circles like from extremists and more religious parties politics one of the questions always asked about Pakistan is the state of civil military relations given the history given given how the country's democratic trajectory has gone seems to be much better than it's been in the past in some ways there seems to be a new normal the 2008 transition then the 2013 transition heading to a 2018 transition but one of the concerns that people in the intellectual circles have is that unless the political class bands together unless the political class can work together on key issues it's very difficult to shift this balance in a sustainable manner towards the civilian sphere and there while I think there's been a lot of progress we've just seen the Pakistani interior minister talk a lot in in in the recent past they've been you've made some speeches in the past where there seems to be a clear tension still beyond just the opposition's role would you say that the political class in Pakistan writ large is maturing in a way that we can see this transition being sustainable and democracy being consolidated or is there still looking over the shoulder that remains I think it's too new for us to stop looking over the shoulder but as far as the maturity of the political class I can speak for the five years that the Pakistan People's Party led the coalition government and that was a time you saw that maturity in the political class where we did come together putting various differences aside to pass the constitutional amendments required and pushing back against that now that leadership has been lacking from Mr. Sharif he's not reinvesting in democracy he's not giving parliament its due he's not its due respect by just not turning up his ministers are not turning up you mentioned the interior minister is reverted back to conversations that sound a lot like good Taliban bad Taliban so that's gonna that's going to obviously aggravate us as the opposition as we will want to keep the government honest and on topic and I feel like it's it's it's moving off track as far as transparency is concerned democracy is concerned and even unfortunately it's counterterrorism approach it's a couple more questions then we'll open up I was looking at a recent survey of Pakistanis and by far when you ask them what is your number one problem or Pakistan's number one problem by far the answer is corruption before anything else terrorism extremism poverty everything comes after that and that's been something that's been consistent in Pakistan's history unfortunately in terms of whether it's democratic governments or otherwise the Pakistan people's party has not been immune to this as haven't other parties where do we stand on that as we speak we're looking at a supreme court looking at the Panama gate if you will which is a huge sort of scandal surrounding the government the Pakistan people's parties time was no different in a lot of ways Imran Khan the Pakistan Tariq and Saf agitating one what's the future of this is Pakistan is this a curse that's going to remain with Pakistan or are the Pakistani elite including political leaders trying to find a new paradigm out of this I don't think that the elite are trying to find a new paradigm out of this and I think that this issue has been banded about as a political tool but not been taken seriously and it is up to the new generation to really stand up and say actually we absolutely are not going to tolerate any form of corruption in our society we have limited resources and we want to see it being spent properly but that's going to take real genuine leadership not banding it about as a political baton just to hit which we will continue to do because let's be railway politicians but we have to really show that leadership on this issue and unfortunately at their seams as in a lethargy it's seen as the way things are done and that has to change finally 2018 Pakistan's next election you are soon going to contest for the Pakistani parliament we were to believe the public discourse a lot of people would argue the people's party has a very difficult task ahead of us ahead of it when it comes to 2018 some would argue you could write PPP off in the next election in terms of reverting to national leadership where is PPP is this a remaking of the party is this a strategic pause or do you think people are being too critical and PPP does actually have a chance I think that there is a lot of criticism and there's a lot of work to be done and there's absolutely an uphill task and no one's going to deny it's an uphill task and looking at recent elections around the world it seems that the unlikely candidate has been winning whether it's here in the United States or you know in actually in Canada they were in third place before you won so I'm going to hold on to that as a civil as part of my civil lining no there's absolutely a lot of work that needs to be done but the Pakistan people's party is uniquely placed as the only federal party in Pakistan so we can engage politically not only in Sindh but I look forward to putting a really competitive pitch in South Punjab in Khebra Pakhtunkhwa where the last three by elections were won by the Pakistan people's party in urban Sindh where the dominating political force for the past many years has been in disarray and disrepair the second force which is the Pakistan people's party needs to step up and fill in that void so there's while people are being extremely critical and viewing the gt road fight in central Punjab there's when elections come down to math at the end of the day and I think that the Pakistan people's party you get a house in order we're getting our narrative together we are reorganizing so that means I've been looking more internally than externally if I get the time to focus more externally and take our message have an equal playing field because if you remember in the last election that the Riki Taliban Pakistan and a lot of other extremist forces pointed to Mr. Nawaz Sharif's party Mr. Moran Khan's party and another party and said these guys are fine we're not going to target them but the people's party the MP and the MQM we're going to target so that's not an equal playing field so things are going to change hopefully in that way for the next election and that'll give us a great chance on to tougher questions so let me open it up again please keep your question short identify yourself and we'll have our guest respond and if there's time we'll come back to our conversation let me start back there and then we'll come come down wait for the mic please to get to you because there are people on webcast who my name is Issaan Ahmed and I've worked for Rabba Times so my question is you talked about minority rights in Pakistan and under your government minorities have been giving more religious freedom but it's also a fact that your party introduced a discriminatory law against the Ahmadis Ahmadi Muslims in Pakistan which basically lets the government pursue the Ahmadis for identifying as Muslims and they're jailed for identifying as Muslims or reading the Quran so how does the PPP plan on fixing that legislation thank you great I'd like to see that we've started with easy questions here Pakistan has a lot to answer for in the way that we have treated as a nation our minorities we can go into the past and we can keep talking about what people have done at various points in our history what I look forward to doing is showing the leadership that's necessary today and coming up with a practical progressive agenda of something of what we can do and what is achievable and the people's party has been focusing on that and really been taking the lead I look forward to working with other political parties to create an atmosphere of equality amongst all minority communities in Pakistan it is a long road ahead and it's not something that's going to be able to take place in one election cycle but as as we continue with the democratization and as we become competitive on these more soft power issues where I notice when we pass legislation in sin the Punjab government now comes under pressure to do the same when we talk about women's rights and sin the Punjab government comes under pressure to do the same this is the conservative PM and Muslim leave Nawaz they used to try and be their mirror moment and so I'm seeing a shift in Pakistan's politics in two words of positive more liberal direction I'm hoping that we'll be able to build a more broader consensus on such issues there is not that space of the moment sorry let's let's sort of go around and we'll come wait for the mic please the gentleman right here well let me give you an easy one so welcome to Washington once again and my question is have you had a chance to interact with the Trump administration if you did would you like to share some insight with us I do identify yourself so that the speaker yes my name is Faiz Rahman and I'm with the voice of America thank you I have not personally had the opportunity to interact with the Trump administration so far right here in front thank you for being here I'm Elaine Sereo I'm the associate rector of WIUU and this is a slightly different direction it deals with cultural diplomacy you raise the topic of the importance of regional collaborations and the relationship of the social dynamics in Pakistan so given that these particularly tenuous times what is your party's view of the role of cultural diplomacy to foster increased regional stabilization and I'm going to give an example of something that is in the process this is the UNESCO World Heritage Site the Shalamar Gardens in Lahore this is a critical site because it was recently at the UNESCO annual national major conference in Istanbul that the Shalamar Gardens were deemed critically in need of this deterioration and so and it happens to be that the Shalamar Gardens share a unique heritage between Pakistan and India the Shalamar Gardens were created at the same time by Shah Jahan when he was also building the Taj Mahal so given this unique situation what would you see is your party's encouragement for this kind of cultural diplomacy when we have so few tools maybe at hand immediately thank you thank you so much there's such a fantastic question I think that's exactly the direction in which we need to be looking at to try and find more common ground amongst us and our neighbors in Sin we have where I'm from Larkana where Mohindra Daro is located and the ancient Indus Valley civilization obviously crosses over and these are the sort of things that I really hope that we can look at working together on even at not only as a at a government level but people to people and particularly student to student because if we invest in these aspects which we should be proud of as part of our history part of our culture part of our shared history and culture then this is really that area of self-power that one can build that common ground of unfortunately there are not many in government today who prioritize our cultural heritage and our history in the same way and unfortunately there are projects that are taking place particularly in the Punjab that I've been approached by months many people over there who are concerned about the orange line or train metro that they're building damaging Lahore's historical cultural sites so this doesn't seem to be the interest but it's something that I really hope that our generation can bring to the table that in 2014 the Sin government held a cultural festival where we attempted to highlight our cultural assets and linked back to the ancient Indus Valley civilization and tried to put forth the narrative that look we're a lot broader than the narrow compliance that people describe us as and not only are we the country of sin this bubble Islam and portrayed as how and that we're proud of that part of our history also but this is also part of our history and it really is something that not only should we educate our our children about so that they know more about it but we should work with our neighbors on it I totally agree with you and thank you so much for the question let's go to the back of the room if we can the lady there in the back thank you very much I'm Saima say I'm a South Asian fellow here at the Stinson Center and I work as a senior research officer at the Center for International Strategic Studies Islam but so you've talked about the foreign policy agenda and how it's under duress in the current administration with the upcoming elections and also seeing that you feel differently about how foreign policy should be dealt may I ask you how would you what is your foreign policy agenda and how would you do it differently in terms of you know economic connectivity in terms of what's happening in Afghanistan and and the relations with India and the future of the US Pakistan relations thank you thank you so much I think it's very important first of all to prioritize how one's dealing with their neighbors and I think one example that I'd like to sort of pick out because it's a very complicated question you can go over time would be Iran and how the Pakistan people's party government despite the world sanctions knew that Iran was our neighbor and prioritized working together with them on things like the Iran Pakistan gas pipeline that could address both our country's enemy energy needs unfortunately this government despite the lifting of international sanctions has not carried forth that project and and really has been seen wanting in its engagement with Iran who is our neighbor it's been all over the place in its Indian policy I feel like the way that they've gone about dealing with Modi does not address aid the insecurities of Muslims in Pakistan in the region to his internationalist rhetoric but his unconventional way of going about it and is a is a is a is a cause for concern at the same time we've had a CPEC which was supposed to be articulated or implemented in a way that would be perceived to be prioritizing the areas that are most highly impacted by terrorism in the most deprived areas of Pakistan again by putting on the expensive train projects in Lahore before you deal with water and gawada it makes things like that controversial so what I would like to see the government do is a prioritize the way in which it deals with its neighbors have a strong and more articulated foreign policy and actually have a minister maybe so he can you know give a full time to this very important component and I think that's where you've seen us sort of step back on this front under the current administration gentleman here I'm going randomly there so many hands and I'm going to try to get to everyone yes my name is Ammar Malik I'm a research associate at the urban institute here in Washington there is a policy debate in Pakistan especially in the Punjab about big infrastructure projects in cities I'm talking you mentioned the orange line but the government has just launched its third bus rapid transit and there's the debate is that you know there's a trade-off between spending money and doing these big ticket projects versus fixing schools and healthcare systems which you seem to be passionate about my question is where do you stand on this debate and more broadly what is your pitch to the Punjab people especially the young people of the Punjab since you represent the youth in the new generation Pakistan and that's the it's a very important fault line it's not only that I that is it's spending on on on big ticket items like this but it's the amount of spending we've got bus rapid projects in the platform at a fraction of the price or in in sin for example the edi line that will be coming up so it's done at a fraction of the price per meter than the loho metro bus I don't understand how they're going about doing that because obviously transport is an important issue for any urban center but the the way in which you spend your resources is also important my pitch to the Punjab would have to address those that I feel are left out of the heritage networks and the way things work over there I think that it's going to be a difficult task because it because it is a triangular fight but the two other competing parties are competing for the same space on the right and it will be a test to see how much a more progressive voice would be able to make inroads in what is seen as a traditionally more conservative voting uh electorate in Punjab okay let's go back to the back of the room the lady there right yes you ma'am uh no you look yeah right here please hi um my name is hush bach and I'm a graduate student and um my question is actually a follow-up question to the first question that was asked and you said that Pakistan has treated its minorities badly and how you plan you hope that this will change but does the ppp take responsibility for the institutionalization of discrimination against Ahmadis and if so what do you plan to do to change it you said that Punjab looks to sin for legislation for legislation so will you do anything about it I don't mean that Punjab looks to sin to legislation I think that it takes a lot of bravery and leadership to break out of what is a become a vicious cycle of otherization uh in Pakistan and where there's a complete and utter lack of empathy uh of treating people as equal uh not treating your fellow human beings as equal citizens I understand there's a lot of not only criticism but uh debate around this uh incredibly uh controversial topic and the Pakistan people's parties well I mean I think it was you know all the political parties that played a role and there's really need to have a more open debate about it um do you believe that we have an atmosphere in Pakistan uh at the moment or do I believe should I say that we have an atmosphere in Pakistan that encourages that open debate and would not result in the death of anybody who takes um uh diversion views on this particular issue I don't think we're there yet I do hope that you're in my generation will get to a point where we can have a more open honest debate about this topic thank you so much for your question gentlemen right here and then we'll go back could you hold the mic closer to you please thank you very much for your enlightening speech uh I'm Dr. Hossein board the chairman of American Beluch Council and of course I agree with your view that the only solution is democracy but of course I'm also aware that your party has not stated any uh position condemning the atrocities committed in Beluchistan by the army and ISI which are still ongoing and of course the issue of Beluchistan cannot be resolved unless it is done through what you described a democratic solution and that is exactly what happened in UK when you were there uh Scottish nation wanted independence they held the referendum and the issue was resolved the Scottish people said they want to stay in UK why not apply the same standard to Beluchistan especially after all this bloodshed which has been going on and of course the main the principle of civilian control over the military is the basis of democracy and I know that your family your great grandfather I remember lost his life trying to do that thank you we're working towards exactly that transition and I amongst others have the same sort of impatience and urgency for everything to be done now and and I hope to translate that that urgency into more effective action there has been a transition and I think the key step that's taken place is not only the overall sort of Pakistan's transition towards democracy but with the devolution of power and the more resources available to the provincial governments I'm really hopeful that this is exactly the sort of way that we can address such issues as far as human rights violations are concerned anywhere across in Pakistan whether it's the most recent bloggers issue or you name it the Pakistan people's party is the first to stand up and put our necks on the line and take the controversial stance that others may not be willing to take does that mean that every single day I stand up and down like protesting I believe that I'm focusing on what is practical in what is possible and I leave the activism to the activists and the politics to the politicians but as far as both of Pakistan is concerned I worry that despite the progress we've made we're not bringing it into the mainstream we're not discussing it as much as one should discuss it's not part of your national news cycles the issues of below just beyond even the controversial issues we don't discuss the lack of human resources the lack of development the lack of investment in infrastructure in the education system and health care system I visited below just on recently the security situation makes it difficult for national leaders to do so consistently and it's a serious serious challenge yes Jamie Aziz with DC Global Television Network and my question is the White House currently instituted a ban on immigration from seven majority Muslim nations and the US media has been very critical of this often bringing up the fact that no terrorists have come from those nations and attack the United States but then they also point to Pakistan as a nation where terrorists have come from and attack the United States and then they say well why isn't Pakistan on the list so my question to you is does that concern you are you worried that there will be pressure put on the White House to add Pakistan to the list and what are you doing to reassure the administration that you are a partner and not to be added to the list thank you so much yeah I have been sort of watching and monitoring very closely what seems to be extremely controversial decision by the current administration and for my generation as a progressive Muslim out in the world it's it's really disencouraging to see countries looking responding to fear of the other in such a way and that we've learned through history is not the way to deal with such issues I know by interaction by finding common ground by studying in other people's universities by learning about their culture our shared culture history we find that common ground and a few criminals should not be allowed to spoil the situation for everyone and it is very discouraging for those of us those out there in the Muslim world fighting radical extremism because they people put their lives on the line on a daily basis to do so to fight for what they believe in not American ideals of freedom their ideals in freedom and equality in democracy and to be tarred with the same brush with those who have brought our religion into dispute who trade in violence and and discrimination is is discouraging demotivating but at the same time I'm an eternal optimist and I really I'm extremely encouraged that I've seen another side to America and the outpouring of support for the people affected by by this ban and and some other things I think it's a very positive message that's sending to the world and I do hope that this issue is sorted out very soon because it is sending the wrong message and is shrinking the space for those of us out there fighting Islamic extremism on the front lines and I feel for my fellow the citizens of all these countries who have been thrown into chaos through this but I'm in search of the idea thank you very much moeid it's a player to listen to you beloved and your message I had these distinctive privilege that your beloved mom was more of a very dear photo had been my guest and stayed and came to our house six times she will always be loved and remembered as a legend by the people of axan I would like to echo moeid's feeling that USA does give so much to Pakistan and where is the frontline is it the approach of USA they need to review the way they help Pakistan or it is the failure of Pakistan leadership to educate their people so that they can appreciate how much USA is doing and part b of my question is that when PPP was ruling and now Muslim League known is ruling what is the difference in the context of US Pakistan relations you see between the policies of the PPP and the policies of Muslim League known thank you I think it's been a failure on both sides we've been unable to show the broad length of our partnership and instead of it devolving into a more what have I done for you what have you done for me we don't talk about what we've done for each other and but I think that this is going to have to be it's it's going to have to take the course that it does take now there was a lot of high hopes that the Pakistan-US relationship would improve and I still hold hold those hopes but the the sort of rhetoric actions perceptions created in the media and makes it very difficult for those of us in Pakistan who perhaps would like to champion the benefits of our relationship when we're pointed to these more corrosive messages that are coming out there as far as our government was a coalition government of all political parties and we worked within those restrictions to deliver to the best of our ability Mr. Noash Sharif enjoys a two-thirds majority but for some reason he's still been frustrated in his ability to deliver and I think that's the key difference between our two governments let's go here right at the corner and then I'll come back hi Marlon Davis with Motorola solutions it's good to see you again sir I want to take it a little bit into the business side of of the discussion and you mentioned that the US is a major trading partner with Pakistan and US companies always look to collaborate and work in on projects potential projects in Pakistan but their and and US companies generally develop I know Motorola solution does develop the community where we actually do work so my question is with the CPAC and the relationship with China frequently US companies face issues with where the Pakistan government gives not preferential treatment but preference to cost over value added projects in other words when there is a tender the cost is the main issue not the value add my question to you is do you see and knowing that we should keep business separate with business people and policy with policy people I want to know if if you see the Pakistan government doing any practical progressive agenda to to actually give value to value added that is actually a serious question of concern because the way that our rules work it goes down to what's the cheapest of the lowest price bid and we really need to sit together to see how we can talk about value added because it comes back to the questions about a perception of corruption and discrepancies and that has to be fought and fought against when there's a when there's a higher price but we really do I don't think the government is done enough to address this issue in fact I think it's relied on this to get its pet projects through but it is a value added it really needs to be appreciated and worked into our legal framework for it to have the impact because politically there's a lot of pressure always anyway to go for the for the cheapest option available and we have to find a way to quantify the other value added things that are being brought along for that extra cost the lady there right here yes I actually pointed to you earlier as well go for it thank you my name is abeha bilgami and I am with a local DC justice for muslim's coalition and my question is you said your party supported legislation about the hindu marriage bill has taken controversial stances in the past and you don't want to talk about the past regarding minority issues because it's in the past what about the forced conversion bill that is in the last two months why was why did your party support it and then back down from it especially because it's a very important issue forced conversion is something the religion does not allow either absolutely forced conversion is something that the religion does not allow the way that this entire issue is handled I think was handled botched by by all sides and it actually was a different party's bill that was adopted and brought on by the government the phrasing was so was done in such a clumsy manner that it had to be readdressed but it doesn't take away from the have you read the bill the forced conversion bill I'd advise that you look at the original format and it's very difficult within within the muslim context and within Pakistan's context of you have to be very careful of how you word legislation particularly when you're looking to protect minority rights and if you could do anything to aggravate the situation or to cause a backlash and when you're not in a position then to defend it it is very important to take all stakeholders on board which is what the government did but also it was it there was very little they could do within their power when the governor sent it back so now we have to sit together to make sure that we all are on the same page I mean I I do believe that you will find it hard to find anyone in Pakistan who advocates and pushes a progressive agenda on all fronts not only on minority funds and I'm happy to have a debate on the most controversial issues with you in person and I challenge any other political party to take the lead that we've done I understand that we take the hits for people that criticize us for what has happened in the past and I hope to be able to prove by my actions and by what we deliver that the Pakistan People's Party is truly the only progressive political party in Pakistan. Right here in the middle Anwar. Thank you very much. I'm Anwar I work for Pakistan Dawn newspaper and part of the question was already asked but anyway I'll try again. Basically Mohi talked about the concerns that people in this town have about Pakistan but I wanted to ask you about what are the apprehensions in Pakistan about the decisions taken in this town particularly what this the Trump administration is going to do how it's going to deal with this with our region and what would be the impact on the war against terror if Pakistan was added to the list of the seven banned countries I think there's a lot of uncertainty both in this town and externally about what the future policies are going to be and I'd like to hold on to a wait and see approach as far as the ban is concerned. I believe that it only has detrimental effects on the countries it is better included and if that was to extend to Pakistan it would create a whole host of hostilities but also would be a very negative indicator that the United States is turning away from those very ideals that it stood for is that shining example on the hill it may not have been perfect all the way through but it could stand by those ideals or and and I just hope that this is not the new normal. So we're coming to the closer time I'm going to have one last question and then give you the last word right here sorry let me let me just let me just come here the gentleman right here yes okay you and then then the one behind that I pointed to. Thank you sir my name is Nasir Naveed I have been associated with Middle East Institute previously my question is about Jamathudawa is there any possibility that your party table a resolution in the National Assembly and pass a resolution in Sindh province to ban Jamathudawa in Pakistan because it is considered that as a bone of contention between India and Pakistan. We have to deal with all such organizations in a far more firmer way than they're being dealt with right now I don't know how constructive a Sindh resolution on this front would serve other than to pay to big target on the backs of the minorities not even in charge of the government of the country and it is really the responsibility of those in power to take the decisive action that they seem blatantly not to be doing in fact to be showing favorites to certain organizations that are in a dispute given the activity that they are engaged in. Have the last question. Bob Hathaway at the Wilson Center here we've asked you a lot of policy related questions I hope you'll allow me to ask you a personal question. Many of us in this room knew your mother many of us regarded her as a friend can you describe to us how she has influenced you what lessons her life holds for you and also what cautions which of her failings or her shortcomings or her limitations have also helped you as you've thought about your place in Pakistan in the years ahead. Thank you for the question. My mother's inspired and influenced my life in in all host ways but I think the one that I sort of like to draw and the attention to right now would be her leadership within Pakistan in the Muslim world while being a woman and I watched how she had to work twice as hard and take undue criticism sexist criticism that undermined her leadership in her position just on the basis of that and that is why I'd like to see Pakistan treated men and women equally and provide equal opportunity to all girls in Pakistan so they can achieve the potential that my mother because she came from privilege and from status that she could overcome certain things that the average Pakistani cannot but if you look at the women's representation in parliament the number of tickets that people are giving including the Pakistan people's party are giving to women it's not enough and I see that a post Benazir Potos Pakistanis has a shrinking space for women and that is something that one really needs to address and it's something that because I witnessed that unfairness firsthand I'm committed to and others saw it as a limitation or a hindrance and I saw force of will she refused to accept it as a limitation thank you well it only remains for all of us to thank you we're right on time usually we're on south asian time whenever we end let me let me just end by by saying that this is the third time we've hosted you here it's been a pleasure every time you were here a time before that as well and I can remind you but you were here last year as well it's always a pleasure I also want to recognize Ambassador Sherry Rehman former Pakistan ambassador to the US who's accompanying you and has spoken as been a great friend of the institute so once again thank you very much and do come back again and thank you all for coming thank you thank you ladies and gentlemen please remain in your seat