 pretend she's not here gonna keep looking down here we go oh what I never swapped this out hold on almost messed that up hello daily tech show listeners I am dr. Spitzel the daily tech news show is brought to you by listeners just like you if you would like to become the patron of the show go to patreon.com slash is detect thank you and enjoy the show this is the daily tech news for Thursday July 15th be the ides of July I don't know I'm Tom Merritt joining me today is Allison Sheridan host of the no-cilla cast welcome back Allison's good to have you hey Tom good to see you again looking forward to today's talk you came up with an interesting discussion lots of news out there Mac office 2016 came out today they announced the touch versions of Windows 10 available for insiders and when you got to thinking about well what what do we need to use do we need an office suite what parts do we still use so we asked some listeners you got some thoughts and I'm can't wait to talk about this it sounds it's gonna be really fun let's get to the headlines first though the verge passes along a financial times report that Apple and Samsung are working with the GSM Association to develop a new SIM card standard to make it easier to switch between services from your phone the embedded SIM or E-SIM would stay in the phone let you switch your carrier without getting a new card you would need dual SIMs anymore now work on the agreement is still in progress the GSM Association says they are positive about developments but no agreement has been reached they do want to create a new standard of some kind by 2016 when you read this article doesn't it make you realize that later on we're gonna look back and go why did we have SIM cards yeah no it's the purpose of that absolutely it's gonna be like well I almost said like the cable box but we used to have it an extra box to change channels it was a switch box I mean we first got cable in the 80s and I was like why did they do that when they just broadcast them to the tune or whatever I do think that yes someday it'll just make sense that well you would do this in software like the only reason to have a SIM card is to control you and stop you from switching between providers right right right no other no other objective at all and I can't wait for the email that tells me why you need a SIM card other than that because I'm sure there are other reasons I should never say only but really it was them that the main impulse at least you could to know that the internet will correct you Tom yeah right it's it as an organism the internet is always right there you go well the Wall Street Journal reports Facebook's Oculus VR has agreed to buy Israel based gesture control company Pebbles hand and finger gesture control made by Pebbles was recently integrated into the Oculus Pebble system lets users see their own arms and hands in their VR display even including including clothing and scars yeah I mean the acquisition just makes sense they've already put this in the Oculus why wouldn't you want to involve these people as your engineers to keep developing it it's less about Facebook it's all about Oculus VR and really interesting that unlike other attempts at this which just kind of show generic arms they can show you your particular arm with your clothes your scars even if you're hold something in your hand a lot of times they can have that thing represented in the virtual world I think it's gonna make it actually a little less freaky though I got to play with Oculus Rift at a front of my house he has the second version of the developer kit and the thing that freaked me out the most was when I look down and move my arms and they weren't moving yeah yeah or actually when a little kid bumped into me in the real world because I couldn't see her and I couldn't see where they come from venture beat reports eBay has confirmed that it's selling its enterprise services business eBay enterprise for 925 million dollars that's about one and a half million dollars less than what they paid for it when they acquired GSI commerce in 2011 which they turned into eBay enterprise eBay enterprise does e-commerce sites for retailers the buyer is a consortium consisting of investment companies eBay officially spins out PayPal as a separate company tomorrow Friday PayPal begins trading on the Nasdaq on Monday so they have essentially spun out everything but their core marketplace and they just had their earnings eBay revenue rose 7% last quarter with PayPal and enterprise on board although if you take PayPal and enterprise out the core marketplace had its revenue fall they say due to currency fluctuations but the core marketplace needs a boosts basically eBay has been making most of their money through PayPal yeah that's interesting I'm hopeful to see that maybe PayPal on its own can get a little bit more innovative into a lot of the mobile space stuff because people had the opportunity to kind of own the mobile payments industry and yet they haven't really done anything great you've got Apple pay and Google pay out there and and it just sort of seems like PayPal has been just treading water a little bit maybe they can get a little more inventive now wow Roman in the chat room is already correcting me saying it's not just the sim that prevents you from switching carries yes I know I was just saying having the sim cards makes it harder to switch so if you pull that he's like it could actually make it harder just more lock-in if you have the software which is true too good immediate correction anyway yes you're right about PayPal I have I have high hopes for what they could do independent yeah TechCrunch reports wearable maker misfit has launched a new app today called misfit link that lets you use your misfit activity tracker as a smart button so for instance you click your tracker and your phone's camera activates the app works with the misfit misfit flash and a new cheaper misfit flash link essentially a flash without a wristband the links iOS app is available now with Android coming next month it will also add integrations with IFTTT or IFTT the three times and Logitech Harmony remotes over time misfit also lowered prices for its existing trackers I tell you Tom I went over to their site and I read and read and look and I can't figure out what that flash link thing is because there's flash and there's link and then there's flash link well I can't figure out what it is there's there's three things the flash is the wristband and it's a plastic wristband there's also the shine which is aluminum the shine doesn't work with the link app by the way so there's the flash with the wristband the flash link is basically just the flash without the wristband and then you have the link app and what the link app does is allow you to program it to say hey when you tap on your flash whether it's the link or just the regular flash do this do this thing that's why they'll eventually integrate with if because that's exactly what if does it creates association so you could say you know turn on the lights in my home when I tap it or you know have my phone take a picture when I tap it so it's just an app and two devices but if you look at the flash page on misfit site it has a wristband version and a clip version yeah under flash no they're just showing they're showing the flash without the wristband so that you know you can replace wristband but then the flash link is just basically the flash sold without the wristband so as a flash link all by itself is it a fitness tracker yeah it just doesn't switch yeah you just keep it in your pocket I guess they both have the switch the flash and the flash link okay I don't get it may it's only 20 bucks there was a scene we use the tech crunch story because the PC World article had a mistake in it and said there was no LEDs on the flash link and I know that confused you at first as well because there are LEDs on both of them right that confused me too I've no idea what this thing is okay it's just a fitness tracker that has an app that lets you program it to do a single thing when you tap it as well as doing the normal fitness tracker things that it always would do for only 20 bucks yeah so that's plastic okay we got another one for you see if this one makes more sense far from being just a button the verge notes that the move MOV has announced a newly designed version of its AI fitness tracker coach called move now sounds like a command it's smaller than the original move has a more breathable wrist strap and a replaceable battery it also allegedly improves on moves coaching features with new apps that are specifically for running swimming cycling boxing and timed workouts the AI talks to you throughout the workout that's the AI coaching part of it encouraging you giving you tips telling you like oh if you want to hit your pace you need to pick up your pace etc pre-order start today at $59 with a jump in price to $99 when it ships this autumn you know the the verge article that you linked to really made me like this because they they spoke to one of the problems is a lot of these fitness trackers collect data my iPhone man it's collecting data and it's putting it on my phone and I got a lot of data but it doesn't tell me what it means and they're saying that the AI fitness tracker software from move is actually going to give you some information about it like hey you did this before maybe you want to try this you're not doing this enough you should try doing that and and I think that's one of the problems with a lot of these trackers is they give you data but they don't tell you what to do about it I'm real curious I don't know whether that one does sleep tracking but I've got a real pet peeve about I've got a big pet peeve about sleep tracking it does it the sleep trackers track your data and then what do you do about it it doesn't have you track why you didn't sleep so it doesn't track like alcohol or caffeine or reading or watching TV thing I don't think that the science is enough to really definitively say yeah sleep so yeah it's it's interesting to know whether you slept or not because then you could say oh no wonder I feel tired I obviously didn't sleep very well but then yeah beyond that because you would never figure that out on your own if you didn't have a device telling you well sometimes I feel like I slept through the night but I'm still tired so this could confirm or deny whether it was that or whether give you nothing to do about it right yeah it's just you know little bits of knowledge eventually we might find a solution there you go well the Verge reports Motorola has invited the press to have live stream event on July 28th at 9 a.m. Eastern the text reads your relationship status is about to change XOX Moto although the O could also be a G as in the Moto G probably is I forgot about Motorola yeah they're Lenovo's company remember they make phones yeah so it there's a lot of money in that bunch of droid leaks bunch of Moto X leaks but Moto G leak I mean it's gonna be new phones and my guess is based on this invite that they're going to try to talk about them as social networking devices to help you with your relationships or something okay our static reports that Intel will build a third generation of 14 nanometer processors delaying the switch to 10 nanometers to the second half of 2017 that sound you're not hearing is Intel missing a beat in Moore's law we should be having a talk I think and we're not we're just getting another tick I may have that reversed Intel CEO Brian Krizanich confirmed the delay in an investor call Skylake will follow Broadwell later this year but then be followed by Kaby Lake in 2016 instead of Cannon Lake which is now pushed to the second half of 2017 they still intend to switch to 10 nanometers after that Krizanich said also that the more regular two-year process timeframe is still their long-term desires they haven't given up on Moore's law yet so this doesn't necessarily mean that Moore's law is wrong this just means that Intel is not obeying the law you know what Moore's law is just a nice little fiction that everybody gets we're so it is actually Moore's law what did more actually say and does this violate Moore's law you know what none of that really matters but you just said is the only real important thing which is wow Intel just had a delay with their 10 with their 14 with their 10 nanometer process because 14 nanometers was harder to roll out than they thought and it looks like 10 nanometers might be harder to roll out than they thought so these chip advances may be slowing down I mean that's the real takeaway here right yeah yeah I just wanted to say they disobeyed the law I know that's what everybody wants right that everybody wants to like get all hung up on like didn't want to prosecute that's it and and yeah I think we should I think we should take Ryan percentage before the true tribune oh you know what though but we hold all of our court on the internet with Reddit and they're in trouble right now so we really can't pull them in front of the court of public opinion right at this moment I like it well in gadget passes along that Samsung announced it has begun testing Samsung pay for select owners of the galaxy s6 and 6 s6 plus in Korea Samsung pay combines NFC with the loop pay technology for simulating a magnetic stripe now do we know much about Samsung pay other like is there a secure enclave on the phone like there is on the iPhone or is it cloud based announced it they announced it when they announced it the last time they said that they would be it would be isolated isolated process and all of that and this is just our first look at it in the real world this we've been waiting for them to roll it out we thought it might come with the new galaxy and it didn't so people were a little surprised about that but now it it looks like they finally are getting out with the big conversation we had a DTS about this when they announced Samsung pay was was less about the security part of it which a lot of people are looking at and paying close attention and you should listen to those people if they come up with something wrong with it but more about the the race for adoption which is to say you know Apple pays slow adoption is partly because you have to find a retailer that takes it what loop pay does for Samsung is gets around that and says anybody that had takes a magnetic card reader can use our system but they're taking so long to get it out the magnetic stripes are gonna be gone yeah see chips will be there the reason I was asking about that was because at Mobile World Congress Infineon was saying that that their chips allow you to store that data in the cloud or locally and that's why I was curious whether they had come through with any more information on that but yeah the magnetic stripes are going away all the terminals are going to be NFC anyway and they may or may not take Apple pay just because they have NFC doesn't mean they'll take it as we've discussed at length all right our next story begins show me introduced to news non-cell phone products according to CNET the new 48 inch me TV to s smart TV sports a slim 9.9 millimeter aluminum frame 60 frame per second Samsung 4k panel and runs the MIUI TV interface all for 2,099 999 yuan that's about 480 dollars US in China starting July 28th the other product announced was the me water purifier selling for 1299 you on that's about 210 bucks US capable of cleaning up 76 barrels of water a day and available at the Xiaomi website in China soon and all their stuff in China is sold over the web so it is the TV is not that big of a surprise 48 inch TV 4k panel the first 4k TV that's interesting the expansion into they've done an air purifier now they're doing a water purifier very important product in certain places in China so that I think they're making a good bet there you don't see a whole lot of companies out there doing that kind of diversification you don't see Apple coming out with air purifiers now I have Samsung though right Samsung makes everything you know it's sad about this announcement is that I didn't get excited about the TV I figured for you and me living in Southern California that it was the water purifier we might actually need right well there's kind of the same reason the sewer run off down the street at this park and I'm thinking I mean air purifier water purifier Beijing Los Angeles that's not that far apart or air is pretty good now now Xiaomi is it's better than Beijing's I'll go I'll grant you that Xiaomi is not really these products outside of China for now but you think a water purifier might actually yeah a good one to roll out and in in other places not even just here but you know India South America Africa so a good worldwide product as well yeah I wonder if that's a lot of money or small money for water purifiers it seems from what I have read from the people who followed this market more closely that this amount is on the high side but probably worth it okay all right cool well gadget reports that Yola has found its first selfish OS licensing partner India's second largest phone maker in text technologies will sell sailfish powered phones and help develop a regional mobile ecosystem called sailfish India index in tax will release self sailfish phones in India in late 2015 possibly along with sailfish 2.0 yeah selfish 2.0 coming to the tablet first but it might come to these phones in the the engadget article had a video made by the Yola people at all talk about sailfish and I find it's so bizarre that a phone made by Indian Indian company Indian OS being sold in India and they had a white woman doing the ad all through it you know I mean not that you couldn't be Indian but it just seemed like a real weird marketing thing and then they they're talking about how this is a new OS but they emphasize the fact hey it runs Android apps yeah and that's that's the challenge for any of these operating systems is to be differentiated but also acceptable for the people who are like yeah but I've got a bunch of Android apps I love my particular Android app can I run my Android app I mean blackberries run into the same thing sure that is a that is an interesting part of this is is how to bridge that gap and get people to be willing to switch because you give them Android apps but not have them just stay in the Android ecosystem and never adopt your own ecosystem and I think that's that's why it's important for them to partner with index to create this sailfish India ecosystem because even though index is going to be helping their competitors here if they can get other manufacturers to get on board then you start making that developer ecosystem more sustainable yeah we get a lot of stuff from our subreddit several stories you've heard of already today came as suggestions in our daily tech news show dot reddit dot com subreddit so if you haven't jumped in there and looked around please do so and please do some voting even if you don't feel like submitting articles which can do as well vote on the ones you think will be interesting before the show I mean vote 24 hours a day but before the show we will look at that and we will actually you know make some calls based on that Reuters says Amazon customers ordered 34.4 million items during Amazon Prime day the sale broke records set by last year's Black Friday sale on Amazon yet Abituala Condolce sent us the time dot com article noting that many Twitter users weren't impressed example Twitter posts included one huge troll by Amazon and Amazon's garage day sale and when I die I want whoever was responsible for hashtag Prime day to lower me down into my grave so I can be let down one more time so it's creative yeah it was pretty creative there's nothing in logic that says you can't make truly comments on Twitter while ordering a cheap Chromebook or router from Amazon Prime day sale evidence seems to indicate this may have happened more than once you know I think one of the mistakes they made was the at least the earliest stuff I could see was really garage sale I went in and I was you know we're looking for a small TV for the kitchen I thought let's go check it out on Prime day and I went into TV and there were seven items so I clicked on Oh coming soon because they were spacing out throughout the day was the same seven items none of which were TVs and they were like little component stuff but not even like things that's great stuff yeah far stick in there was a nice price but that was about it so you know I didn't go back so maybe things I'm gonna wonders if they if it changed up my problem with these kinds of sales not just yesterday but Black Friday sales or singles day sales is that you really have to work harder than you need to to find the thing that you want that you would have bought anyway for a cheaper price and I don't think the opportunity cost usually works out maybe it does sometimes I don't probably true of most sales yeah well some joker SP Sheridan noted the Engadgett article the last Starfighter writer Jonathan Betchwell is developing a TV series called the Starfighter Chronicles with added VR content the series will be about alien law enforcement but certain scenes will have more to them if you're viewing in a VR headset Betchwell is working with folks at surreal TV and hoping to get someone to pick up the project either for network or streaming yeah I got really excited about this article until I got to the point where he hadn't got a distribution deal yet but maybe he still will and I and I love the idea not only of something in the last dire Starfighter universe but also something that has a little virtual reality virtual reality hook like this I think that's cool. Yeah should be fun. And people should note that she called SP Sheridan a joker not because she hates our audience because that's her husband. It's quite the opposite. That's a look at the headlines. Alright let's talk office office for Windows 10 details announced today. This is the touch version of office not the desktop version of office office 2016 is the version that is out for Mac and is coming for Windows that you install on the desktop. Office on Windows 10 for touch is the one that is meant for that Metro style. I'm not supposed to say that any more tiled interface style. The interface formerly known as Metro. Yeah right. You can require I'm sorry it will require an Office 365 subscription if you are using it on a PC or on a tablet with a greater than 10.1 in screen like a 12 inch tablet mostly it counts against your total office 365 subscriptions but not in any category. This is classic Microsoft right here. They have you can have up to 10 devices five mobile and five desktop in your office 365 subscription. But if you got office for Windows 10 the touch enabled version it just counts against the 10. So if you've got five mobile taken up already it'll just count against the desktop but if you've got five desktop taken up already it'll just count against the mobile. That's kind of nice. It is nice. It just complicates things. And also that's you know you you're talking about there's free versions for the smaller ones if you're on a tablet you wouldn't have to pay for the subscription for this. But it's coming the preview will be removed from the app names if you've noticed as an insider and you've been using it that they've changed it to be named mobile so that it's distinct from the desktop version that you might buy. And of course we talked earlier about office 2016 for Mac is out now. Walt Mossberg had his recode review of it and it's he calls it on par with Windows. It works very well. It's it's no longer the red headed stepchild Allison than I know you and I remember when you had to use entourage to get your mail instead of out. Yeah I started thinking about this because my feelings are kind of all over the map. I haven't given Microsoft money since 2011. And I gave the money today right before the show started. And that's not because you they they sent a debt collector after you and you refused to pay your bills. You just haven't bought anything. No no I'm butting from them. And so the fact that they made somebody like me want to give them money I think is astonishing. They've gone from the company that I love to hate to somebody like hey you know they're not they're not creepy anymore. They're doing all these really cool things and inventive things on on the iPad and the iPhone and the Mac and OneDrive and OneNote and and you know these things are is it SkyDrive? I keep forgetting which one's the new one. It's OneDrive. OneDrive now. You can thank Sky TV for that. Why wouldn't I why wouldn't I want to go buy that but then that got me thinking about how cool it is that we have so many alternatives. I mean we can do the Microsoft office route but we can also do the Libre office open office. We've got I work that you know if I have to do a presentation I might use keynote but the rest of it I don't really like that much but it's it's just spectacular that we have so many cool choices and of course the Google Docs for collaboration is wonderful. Yeah and so we asked people on Google Plus and the Daily Techno Show Facebook page what they use for office and there was variation. We got one guy on Twitter said Lotus Symphony. We had several Libre offices you know but by and large people said I use Office or Office 365 for work and I use Google Docs for play or for my own stuff or for my personal stuff. Does that ring true to you Allison? Well I used to work and when I when I did go to a day job it was a Microsoft office at work but it was Microsoft office at home. I've been retired for a couple years now and I and I do have a choice. I've probably been using Google Docs more than anything doing collaboration with that Joker SP Sheridan but I still reach for Excel when it comes to a spreadsheet. I don't think word even needs to exist unless you're writing a book or a thesis or something. I mean everything we can do we can do in text edit. You said use text edit simple note you know notepad. Most of us don't do anything beyond making a title bold or something you know maybe you might center it up if you're feeling frisky. That's about all you do. You don't do footnotes and pagination all this kind of stuff when you're writing for yourself. I think at least that's been my observation but when it comes to Excel I mean I just tried to do a I'm kind of an Excel nerd and I tried to do a QFD in Google Docs and you can't make your text vertical. Just something as simple as that it's like you know it's okay if you want to make little lists and add seven numbers you're okay. Yeah I the more I thought about it the more I realized how much more distributed my my productivity apps are than they ever were 10 years ago. I mean 10 years ago I used I used open office and and maybe I would have to use like I think when I went to see that I had to use Microsoft Office for a couple of Excel spreadsheets but essentially that was me using an office suite for everything. These days the more I read these these comments and and we'll have a link to the the Google plus thread in the Facebook page in the show notes go look at them there's there's a really interesting diversity in how everyone combines these things even though we notice these two big main themes none of the two responses are exactly the same like one person uses Google Docs for personal work but Libre Office for work and Microsoft Office in compliance work and and and that's the same for me I use Google spreadsheets for all of my podcast rundowns except for FSL tonight where we use we use Google's word processing Google Docs I use text edit like you say for just taking notes when I'm writing up a quick headline or just taking notes on things I'll use simple note when I'm taking notes on something I want to use cross platform for instance my fantasy sports league I will use simple note to write up my weekly updates to the league because I don't know if I'll be on my laptop or my desktop when I'm finally getting around to posting them so I want them available I'll put recipes in simple note I use open office for writing when I'm actually doing like I'm writing on a novel or working on a layout but then I will move that to Microsoft word for the final edits because I need to have it in words layout to make it work better with the publishing company right that I that I work with compliance yeah for exactly it is it is my own version of compliance and then I use excel for actual spreadsheets that I'm going to send to someone else because I found when I make open office spreadsheets a lot of times they end up having weird and pivot tables don't work the same or something and so it's just easier since I'm already going to have office to use excel for that so I'm all over the place on this stuff right right you bring a bumping office and compliance it I used to use a mac in a window centric company and what I found in the old days if I used office on the mac it was frequently incompatible with the people I needed to share it with so I had to use open office in order to be compatible with the people using windows office yeah so it was it was just this weird aberration that Microsoft couldn't even make itself compatible I did I did work with people who had open doc format and in the early days only star office and open office used ODF so you'd have to use it for that and and I use Libra I should say I use the Libra office fork now rather than the open office suite and I'm not sure where where the political sensitivities lie on those but I started using Libra office at some point and I'm stuck with it but I'll be honest I probably work in Microsoft office more often because of compliance issues like you say and I probably work in Google docs or Google spreadsheets the most often of all of those but I think it's okay I think it's good that we have this one central point especially now that the windows and mac versions are the same that that we have one common place to have a file for it and everything work exactly the same so that way I can choose my operating system you can choose your operating system and yet we can all come and play together I think that's nice I also think it's interesting that we haven't really talked about presentation software I personally think that all presentation software should be put to death immediately I think it's the the demise of of thought as we know it I remember years ago my brother has she's a really smart daughter and he had she was in a Montessori school and they made her do a PowerPoint presentation when she was seven was like you're taking that that explosive brain and just cramming it into this little eight-and-a-half by eleven piece of clop that you know so she can have bullets and sentences it was horrific ever since I read the there was a department of defense study that found out that when you have slides up on the screen people comprehend less of what you say than if you don't I've tried to avoid using them there was one year where I did a talk when it was I was when I was at CNET and I did a talk at Google about upcoming hot products and they said can you make some slides for us and I said okay so I made them in Google presentation and then I set them to them and I said can you make this now granted this is early early days of Google presentation so they haven't really refined it yet but just the idea that was like oh man I don't think the presentation software helps nearly as often as people think it does my favorite my favorite case of that was my boss was unable to be at an all-hands meeting where they were doing a state of the union address thing and she was going to be able to fly in for this thing and she had six minutes on the agenda and she said Allison can you fill six minutes I'm like I can fill six minutes anything no problem so a week beforehand the people organizing the event said well Allison you need to send us your charts six minutes charts yeah really I'm wasn't going to have chart you should have a chart of how much time you've spent so far one minute the guy was going to cry I thought he thought he was going to get fired if you didn't get it so I made a chart oh I also I recently did a a talk on the importance of using a password manager to a local user group and I and I said okay well they want a presentation so I'm going to bring up keynote and you know I can make all these cool transitions and I'm typing in bullet after bullet and I'm going to a coma writing it it's so boring right so I got rid of all the words and I just put up pictures like one of the things was going to be it's going to be too hard so I found a an open source picture of a little boy crying and you know that's all there is on that chart but everybody's going to remember what my point was at that point I think it's just a people later there yeah sorry I talked over you would you say no no I said I think that's a good use of it like a visual aid yeah yeah I was trying to you know channel my inner Steve Jobs yeah well let's move on to our pick of the day Dixon sent this in and says he's not sure if it's considered tech but we've done coffee on the pick of the day Dixon so don't worry he was listening yesterday's podcast about the taxi app for the visually impaired and said I am reminded of a watch that doesn't need to be watched at e1time.com that's E-O-N-E-T-I-M-E dot com e1time according to the web page the Bradley is the watch and it's named after Brad Snyder an ex naval officer Brad lost his eyesight and explosion in Afghanistan in 2011 Brad competed in and won gold and silver medals in swimming at the 2012 Paralympics in London and this watch was made or at least inspired by him and it has a feelable interface so you can feel where the minute and second hands are I guess the minute and hour hands are and different widths for all of the the hours so you know what marks are on there Dixon says I'm not even visually impaired but this is a great device if you need to know the time and you're trying not to be rude wow it's also really awesome looking it's really industrial it's not cheap either it's a couple hundred bucks for the cheapest version of this but yeah it's got a great industrial design I haven't used it so I can't you know swear to whether it works well or not but Dixon seems to like it so he's passing it along to you very cool it's the the Bradley from E1 again that's that's eone-time.com I'll have a link to the show notes if you're interested dailytechnewshow.com slash pics for all our picks I got a couple of messages the day before we get out of here Erling said I think something you might have this should have discussed he said I'm trying to avoid hero I think something you might have missed in yesterday's discussion just because we didn't mention something doesn't mean we missed it we only have so much time so what Erling's trying to say is I've thought of something else in that discussion of Reddit in regards to the comment that Reddit was never supposed to be a bastion of free speech actually in this case he's probably right that we missed it Scott Johnson was trying to remember a quote and we thought we found a quote from Steve Huffman that didn't say anything about bastion of speech he says here's the relevant quote speaking of the founding fathers this is Alexis Ohanian quoted in Forbes speaking of the founding fathers I asked him what he thinks they would have thought of Reddit a bastion of free speech on the worldwide web I bet they would like it Ohanian replies it's the digital form of political pamphlets so it appears at the bottom of the article we've got the link here best wishes from the UK Erling so there you go smoking gun Alexis Ohanian did use the words bastion of free speech at one point in regards to Reddit Allison does this make any difference of them saying we never meant it to be a bastion of free speech even if you use those exact words at one point I don't I don't think so I mean it's it's real easy to say free speech until it turns as creepy as things have turned so I don't I don't hold a gun to their head on that it seems to be a side argument of like look they're saying we never meant it to be a bastion of free speech and then you know somebody points out this article and says well you said it was going to be a bastion of free speech it's beside the point the point is where should the line be and Ellen Powell has a very well thought out article in the Washington Post I don't necessarily agree with everything she said about the way communities work but it's an excellent insight into her perspective on the challenges of running a community like that I mean the community of the internet and what those very real problems are yeah you know um oh doctor said something really interesting over on the twit network he said that uh he doesn't want them to hide these creepy communities he says I don't want you to hide the snakes in the grass I want to know where they are I thought that was an interesting way to look at it yeah and there's lots of different ways to go about that what Ellen Powell was trying to point out was there are trolls everywhere and they are not pleasant and when you're dealing with a site the size of reddit you know less than one percent of them acting bad is thousands and thousands of instances so it becomes an entirely different thing now I I think there are lots of different ways of dealing with this and I'm also not Ellen Powell and I didn't have to deal with what she had to deal with so I might be a little more negative about this sort of thing if I were in her position but she comes to the same conclusion I do which is she thinks we can win against the trolls my my feeling on this is all of this trolling is us learning how to deal with a new tool and and we have to actually you know confront this and this is where I agree with what you're talking about with a doctor we have to to confront these issues head on and not try to shuffle them off under the rug in order to be able to grow up as a society and learn how to act like responsible people with this brand new tool that we've been given as as humanity yeah yeah that sounds easy that's all we have to do yeah and it's going to take decades so you know don't expect an overnight solution Martin wrote I love your show and wanted to drop a line about the repercussions of firefox killing flash I am the tech lead for an advertising agency and as part of that work I oversee the production of web banners for major brands up until this week most of those were done in flash mainly due to inertia and cost savings chrome has set a date of november to make the change to html5 banners and everyone in the industry was working with that date in mind but firefox killing flash this week has caused us to put all of the banners being worked on this week as well as some that were already about to be sent to ad networks overall it caused a lot of ripples and advertising that pays for most of the content of the internet just putting a new perspective on a story that slipped under most people's radar so even if firefox did put flash back once it was updated this definitely kicked some people in the pants it sounds like wow yeah this is a this is a complex problem because of the legacy stuff that'll be out there forever I've always been kind of a rip the band-aid off quickly kind of person you know jump in do it get it done because it always ends up costing you more if you wait it only gets harder the people who know how to fix it later is are fewer you know just just knew it bite the bullet do it yeah if you can it's it's ripping the band-aid off is not fun but you have to rip it off really slowly it's harder cost more and you still have to rip it off eventually right exactly well that is it for this show thank you Allison Sheridan for joining yeah this was really fun I had something really cool this this last week on my show Dr. Mary and Gary who's a professor at Victoria University in Wellington was on my show I purposely named my show so you couldn't figure out what it was about which allows me to do whatever I want she's a memory expert but she talked to us about the difference between focus and paying attention and it was it was a really really interesting article that she specializes in making you doubt everything you think you know and it's a really interesting discussion she's also hilarious so it's a it's a really good show so that was uh I forget the episode number whatever the latest one was over on pod feet dot com go check it out pod feet dot com p o d f e e t dot com you can follow Allison on twitter with that same word twitter dot com slash pod feet go do it thanks to our patrons five thousand sixty one people who feel like the show is valuable and we cannot thank you enough we are entirely flattered that that many people feel the show is worth some value if you're not one of them yet and you'd like 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p m eastern at player dot alpha beat radio dot com and visit our website daily tech news show dot com we'll be back tomorrow with daren kitchen and lend peralta talk to you then this show is part of the frog pants network get more at frog pants dot com diamond club hopes you have enjoyed this brover boom boom boom great show what should we call it that was fun i still want jenny to come on sometime go god that was a horrible show you guys sucked never i can do that for now on if you want yeah roger i'm glad for that right i'm gonna open a window in here it's about 200 degrees in the office i got it got warm isn't it yeah hang on got warm here too i like to move it move it i kill us wrist that's pretty good i kill us wrist amazon has passed its prime day literally true yeah paypal needs a friend five more and i won less is more huh well dr pain's on fire yeah i mean someone please get some water show me the water it's been suggested by my family that i exaggerate sometimes by the always back in my day they used to be called tall tales it's only 78 in here rotations per minute what's the humidity though i'm sure it makes it more not so much the heat it's the humidity i'd like to move it move it the internet is always right in aggregate i don't know anybody got a favorite why are people writing things twice twice is nice i kill us i don't know nothing i don't talk to us wrist i mean i thought morse law and i won maybe i thought morse law and i lost more like it yeah and lay the chip yeah are we allowed to change it yeah yeah we can modify amazon not so prime oh i saw amazon has passed its prime yeah past its prime day i like that you like that i'm still i'm still uh levelating and let it cook showbot.tv if you're watching or listening live make your uh make your vote the ebay puts ebay enterprises on ebay too bad every time you say the word enterprise you just can't do the the sting from star track like a like a good solid morning enterprise computing is not as exciting as being on the starship enterprise but really what is i mean it's not like nothing it's not like the ceo of uh ebay enterprises suddenly gonna lose their shirt and like mono a mono combat with an alien or or uh negotiate diplomatic relations with an alien you might just negotiate a country a whale a space whale what's space whale oh roger i'm as i'm gonna title the episode since then on a monopita apia you're on a lot of something hey tom how about that epic uh drawing that guy did of you the painting oh ryan's drawing yeah now he's been working on that forever gosh that's amazing he's really poured his heart into it it's amazing that was fantastic i want a shirt with the you with the shirt on it we'll go buy it he's got it's a sale yeah yeah red bubble he's got it on shirts and mugs and he mailed me uh this morning about some some he's put it on a few more products it's red bubble and then search for dts yeah i think yeah there it is just dts a pillow i don't know if i want to lay my little a little he's just tried as many different things as possible but no it's really cool i mean you can get one for eileen maybe but that might be creepy even for her she would what yeah i'll lay down oh duvet cover with the pillow he's got a duvet cover with yeah he just put it on whatever they had at the store i don't think it's okay that's funny yeah a notebook would be a spiral notebook an ipad case for your kids back to school is coming up back to school in august you know they won't get kicked at all they have shower curtain you know what the shirt looks like i'm sorry it's the sunglasses they're causing causing large amounts of sass yeah that's what caused it right did they give you any more than just what did they use to dilate your eyes jenny i don't know man i've felt this way since jenny jenny i don't think she really went to the eye doctor you know what was really weird i'll tell you what was really weird so our cars are super dirty because we've been trying not to wash them with the drought but it's like gotten so ridiculous and then i found out my what my windshield wipers don't work like the water just goes and doesn't really clean the window so it created some odd combination where there was not enough water to clean but enough to like grease the dirt and let all light in our windshield started refracting and so as i was driving the burping dropping someone off at the Burbank airport last night basically it looked like an acid trip where the lights were being pulled out of like every light source on the way it was like a video game i took a video of it which you can actually see as soon as i posted somewhere so you're saying you're seeing tracers i was but everybody in the car was like i had to turn him at me like where my eyes are dilated from the eye doctor and the tracers are from the dirty window i didn't take anything crazy it was crazy i have video of it i can prove it sure it was really bizarre i might suggest that in the drop they don't want you to do this and now it was really wild and it it was just like i've never seen anything like that before on a car it's terrifying to me it was terrifying yeah my husband was like i'm so glad you saw that you see it too right you see it too right reminds me of many years ago we were driving in mexico with some friends and i swear i saw a camel in the middle of the road and i didn't say anything because i thought you know i'd add a couple of drinks what what the hell was that and and i thought i've had a couple of drinks there's probably not a camel in the middle probably not and then about 10 minutes later somebody the car went do you guys see a camel brave enough to admit it that's awesome so there really was a camel there well at least one that all four of us saw use hbo now on more devices than ever i finally got the email about the news that came out this morning i would like to learn more you can get time on an organic shirt gluten-free tom small batch artist made gluten-free local artist um so 1991 called and they want their music performances back because at the grove next wednesday where near where i work the spin doctors and lisa lobe are playing lisa lobe wow did she ever score a a boyfriend from that show she was doing i don't know but i'll ask her because she's going to be around here and she'll be hoping to talk to fans that's right get her on dts i'll see what i can do about that would have been like yeah how 90s but lisa lobe lisa lobe is like slamming the 90s home right on um yeah i'm kind of excited about it i saw the spin doctors back in the one was it must have been like 93 uh so um at the end of her concert i will pay you $10 if you run up and go stay i miss you i will if only to get $10 i'll give you two you once they've replaced alexander hamilton okay brand new susan b entity 10 i need a floor nap floor nap oh you don't know about floor naps floor naps are key you've made it this far in life without learning about floor naps when it's all too much just lie down on the floor with a pillow 10 minutes doesn't even have to be a dts pillow nope probably shouldn't be used to do telecons laying on the floor in my office oh yeah so there you kind of you're kind of on board yeah once i had a six hour conference call and i was i laid down through most of it because i was just like this is unreal that's nasty yep i specialized in canceling meetings nice we don't need a meeting for that yeah i can't decide which shirt to buy there's so many options buy them all racer back t i know i'll only wear the gray one same about if i got a dark blue one with you with the dark blue shirt that'd be kind of meta i really have this all i've been doing for the last 10 minutes yeah i will be very happy to hear that now i keep telling him i keep insisting that he should keep some of the proceeds but he has set it up so that they just all go automatically oh my god show dts are you kidding me yeah i know i keep i'm telling like no dude you should you should keep it all yeah even if you don't want to do that you should keep a cut yeah we should automatically set up all payments from him to go back to him and just create an infinite time loop of money it just goes and automatically purchase something which then sends more money to us which thing goes oh my god where do you have the stuff shipped though to him yeah good question could be our giveaway budget that's right actually what we should do yes if for any of that money make turn it right back around somewhere oh speaking of of of things for sale the teespring for satchamania uh succeeded oh that's amazing tvz gone said he got his notice i got my notice too allison based on what you were saying about microsoft on the show you might want to check out teespring.com slash satchamania i've been uh i've been plugging that okay good so the smr podcast guys have um uh a group they call the minions they're a bunch of windows right and so i've posted it to the minions oh good i talked about an smr podcast last night too that's fantastic what do you mean it succeeded is teespring like crowd-funded t-shirts yeah they basically say if you get a certain amount of orders we'll make the t-shirt oh okay and i guess the idea is you get a little bit of a higher quality shirt it wasn't mustard yellow i was in oh i love it oh i'm yeah not my favorite color either but it was too even then it was too funny not to yeah it's hilarious that that became a thing that's again i love the internet yep it's a love hate thing satchamania running wild there you go you just sounded exhausted when we were talking about the the reddit stuff who me yeah yeah well it's just so overwhelming it's like all we have to do is figure out how to deal with mean people right well that's actually a really great point allison because it's true the i was talking about this with a friend yesterday and the answer is not in the technology really you can like you can noodle all around it's like instagram too like you can noodle all around do all sorts of complex things but like the answer is in the people yeah the answer is not in the tools yeah i mean the tools might help you implement whatever answer yep but yeah i'm right there with you you're absolutely right it's a social conditioning thing the only the only part that is the technology part is it's so easy to show off your horribleness yes and anonymously and that's an enabling factor but you know well anonymously people anonymously do lovely things too a hundred percent agree with you jenny because right now the feeling is oh i can be anyone i want on the internet including a jerk so even if most of us aren't being jerks on the internet there are enough it's spam factor right yeah a small amount of them get a lot of attention and cause a lot of effect and you know what you have to do as a society is figure out how to deal with that because we've never had that in a small community of 20 people if one of them is a jerk it's really easy to identify them and deal with them uh and my the reason i was expressing positivity is that i believe we will figure out how to deal with that i see ways that people deal with that in smaller communities or or in in in certain situations as the building blocks of us figuring it out but the reddit problem is just so large that it doesn't have an answer you can't just say do x or put this algorithm in place i mean it's you know it's kind of weird it kind of reminds me a little bit about driving etiquette it took it took a couple of generations for people and then this is then this is something that you learn not just from people next to your family but from friends but also movies and tv show where you people where you watch a movie and they and they uh cascade you know individuals who are bad drivers in movies and so you learn that there's a certain etiquette to the way you drive where you're not a jerk and i think the same thing needs to happen with technology where people as a society people who are you know ass hats online are kind of are represented that way and they really aren't at this point they're kind of seen as kind of like being very uh clever they're not really represented yeah you know that character very often no and it's it's something that i think there needs to be a larger outgrowth where people say well okay that's not socially acceptable i mean you can take uh discrimination against women or minorities i mean you know i think soul man back in the 80s was the last out now like whoa what was this movie made um for but like you know sent things like that level of sensitivity trickles down especially in the large sub population i mean granted these individuals are small but the way they connect with other people is in a very grand scale and i think the thing to take into account is that um each of us have some ass hatness in us and our our hidden ass hatness comes out more on the internet anonymously yeah yeah i mean i'm far less ass heady in real life than i come on the internet actually i'm kind of the same to tom tom will back me up on this i think with the difference i think that i think it's the same thing we're saying where we haven't learned all the rules is why you're saying that is like we all have jerky behavior and it come make seem like it comes out on the internet more because the rules are different you know how to act at a dinner party you know how to act in a store i'm hardly i except for jenny except for some notable exceptions yeah oh but you know what i mean like we know the rules anyway even if we ignore them uh yeah you don't really know the rules on the internet we're inventing the rules right now so so here's a thing though that i've thought about and i've been wanting to ask you tom at the risk of being public right now because we are still live is no it's not terrible but i i would love to know whether you have less trouble with trolls than other people with similarly sized audiences maybe talk a lot about well i don't if we want to if we want to do a gender split i definitely have less trouble with trolls than female people who do the same thing okay that's just a that's just a common okay commonality i don't have troll problem but it could be because i'm set in the problem uh i don't i don't know that i have less trouble um i don't know your moderators have to clean up your Reddit a lot whereas this material and your attitude maybe set the rules of how you expect people to behave yeah maybe i don't know i don't think that i don't get the feeling that kyle has to do a whole lot to clean up the subreddit but i know he has stuff to do yeah so yeah i mean i get where you're going which is if you if if you set a good example up and down your community from top to bottom and i'm not even just talking about myself here i'm talking about any organization it may problem less than if you just turn on the community and let it run without any kind of of role setting or maintenance or in for informing how the community should act so whether it's the volunteers who do that league who at cnet uh he set the tone for the cnet forums in the cnet community he was that guy there and he made that community a lot better community because of it you got to have those people and if you get a large community you got to have more of those people so well i i think about it like if i go into a reasonably nice restaurant i go into the restroom and there's toilet paper on the floor and paper towels and i will actually go pick them up and throw them away because i know that the next person comes in they're not going to throw it on the ground because there's nothing on the ground and and it's sort of like well it's the same way as when you go into a neighborhood where there's broken glass you will fix the windows in all of those military well no not if the whole place is a bunch of broken windows right if it's a creepy place and i mean a gas station i'm not going to go pick up those paper towels but if it feels like it's kind of a nice place and just the person before me was kind of jerky i might clean it up yeah it's it's interesting i think roger's example of of driving is a really good one because we're cut off from the rest of humanity when we drive and so it has taken us a well i think that's why we had epidemics of road rage us learning how to deal with the fact that oh i'm not in proximity to another person but there's still another person there yeah um so not to change this amazing topic but tom we're in agreement that we have to make 250 million dollars on ant-man to have a chance right hey you know i'm going to go to my haircut down that okay yeah um thank you allison thank you allison i thought we were making 250 million dollars and i got all excited i got excited there for a second until i understood what she's talking about but how much probably sales yeah bye thanks again allison so 250 right is it 250 i mean yeah i probably i haven't run the numbers but i'll that sounds reasonable right now yeah that's to be 250 to even have a shot at second place all right let me look real quick before we go okay so what's gonna happen is minions is going to go up to what 300 yep so that's that's another 150 there they're probably not going to get much more out of uh Jurassic world i think they're 600 million is probably enough yeah i think that i think that's they'll probably top 600 million but then it'll stall out so there's so that's it they they're going to end up 840 million 845 million which means that we have to make 620 out of the rest of our movies movies yeah 620 divided by four i should be able to do in my head but you know what i don't anymore because i'm an old man so 620 divided by four sorry grandpa uh 155 each or ant-man vacation mission impossible fantastic for vacations not gonna make that no so what do you think vacation makes 70 if we're lucky uh 50 i'm gonna say 50 so we have worst case scenario so each one of the other movies has to make 188 oh boy i mean or let's call it 200 let's call two let's just call two mark busters all have to make 200 and then we have a shot which they could here's the thing i don't know where mission impossible is gonna end up yeah if it could be 148 and i would not be shocked it could be 300 and i would not be shocked i have no idea that all depends on what you think of it outside the plane right but that that goes either way right it could either be like oh my god like you're saying is outside a plane or could be like this time they went outside a plane it just didn't make any sense i know we'll see so yeah each movie has to basically make 200 million yeah it's all order thanks a lot pan remember when we had pan yeah and we felt a lot better about this game no uh was selfless the one or was vacation the one we got i think vacations what we got vacation pan is actually not that far off i think pan would have done vacations get in a lot of press that's true so i don't feel bad about vacation i feel horrible about selfless freaking seven six million dollars seven point five seven point five now oh okay yeah makes all the difference makes all the difference all right uh well that is it for us in the post show uh thank you all for coming stay tuned for the daily giz wiz after we weep about the movie