 Hello, welcome back everybody to theCUBE's coverage in New York City of AWS Summit 2022. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. We had Dave Vellante, Lisa Martin here earlier. I'm going to wrap it up here with James Forester, last interview of the day here in New York, which we're going to have another day. It's packed house, 10,000 people. James Forester is the VP worldwide technical leader for VMware's cloud on AWS. On AWS, this is a big distinction. James, welcome to theCUBE. Thanks for coming on. Thank you so much, John. It's great to be here. So I think it's been like six years since the announcement of VMware's cloud on AWS, which is a separate instance, separate hardware, but it's changed the game for VMware. You guys done a lot of work, successful traction with customers clarified. I remember at that time, it really clarified VMware's cloud play, which then gave VMware more time to work on what's to do now, which is, you know, using all their assets and their operations with Tanzu, Monterey, cloud native, cross cloud, what they call, you guys call cross cloud, I call super cloud, action, a lot of stuff happening. So thanks for coming on. Okay, so first question is, okay, what's the future look like for VMware's cloud on AWS? Super bright, super bright. And there's a couple of great reasons for that. I think firstly, what we're seeing is that customers have now made enough progress in their cloud journeys. Many of them have chosen AWS and they're going full force. We're going to help them go faster. We're going to help them get there and get native to those adjacent services much quicker with more confidence and more resiliency. So it's in a super exciting time to be doing what we do. You know, VMware's had a steady install base, okay? I mean, basically it's like almost ingrained in the operations. What do you guys see as that next level step up function? Because you know, obviously Broadcom is buying VMware, obviously that utility will be in place, but there's more, there's more there that customers can tap into. This is the promise of the cross cloud. How do you talk about that when you got the AWS action? How does that all integrate? Yeah, absolutely. And of course, because so many customers are going to AWS on their own cloud journeys right now, what we get to have the conversation about is how they can get there more confidently. And so for customers who are just starting out, who are looking at their application portfolios, who have a ton of skilled IT professionals, who they want to bring into that cloud journey, they can use the skills they already have. For those folks who are a little bit further along, but are maybe finding that refactoring their applications is more complex, more difficult than they anticipated, we give them a way of moving with confidence and with much less risk. They can do those cloud journeys that they anticipated. You know, James, I want to get your thoughts on what the state of the current situation is. These are the, your customers and your customers appetite for AWS services. It's one of the promises of the original deal was, clarifying messaging, but more importantly, customers can get the VMware cloud and take advantage of the higher level services on AWS. What's the update there? What's the current state of the art? What's some of the patterns that you're seeing on the uptake of services and how they're working together? Yeah, it's a great call out. And honestly one of the misconceptions that I address right out of the gate is that somehow going VMware cloud takes you away from those services. It doesn't, it gets you closer to them. Full direct native access to all of those hundreds of great AWS services. So what we often find is that customers have their enterprise data inside data workloads in their data centers, but what they want to do is get that up next to the AWS services that can use it, like Redshift and Athena and Glue. They can move those workloads right adjacent to those services and start using them right away. So it's a great way to look at the platform. So one of the observations that's pretty well understood right now by most people, I'd say 90% if not more, not 100% because I've heard people like not get it, but it's pretty clear that the operating model for the enterprise will be hybrid as a steady state. I don't think there's any debate on that unless you think there is. You feel the same way? No debate, no debate. Okay, hybrid is a steady state. What does that mean as clients start to think about edge and their data centers? Because now the private cloud is back in the game. So I've heard people talk about private cloud, which we, I think we coined the term with Dave Wikibon years ago, but it kind of went away because that was not the public cloud. So public cloud one on premise didn't go away. So Amazon with Outpost. So now they're like, I can still have stuff on prem and run it into cloud operations. So they're calling that private cloud. So you start to hear the same things. What it means basically is that hybrid is winning. It's the standard. What does the hybrid environment look like from a VMware perspective? As you guys look at that, I've been building that out because you have customers that are on premises. Is it just to the cloud and back? Is there any changes? Is there a new connective tissue? Is there a glue layer? What's the operating model for VMware customers? Well, customers wanted those same benefits from public cloud agility, cost benefits, elasticity, innovation, sovereignty, sustainability, but they wanted to be able to do that everywhere. They wanted it in their data centers. They wanted it at the edge. And as you pointed out, public cloud delivered that for customers. AWS first out there, delivering that for customers. Now with innovations like VMware cloud and AWS Outposts, we're able to bring that back into the data center. We're able to bring those same benefits of public cloud into the customer's on-prem environment. And you're right. We see hybrid just rolling and rolling and being able to offer our solution across all of it. Yeah, we're big fans of VMware because theCUBE's 12 years old. We've been at every VM world. Now they're calling it VMware Explorer. The event's coming up so the folks watching plug for VMware Explorer. Formerly VMworld, it's on the schedule. Content catalog just came out last week. It's looking pretty good. So put a plug out there. We'll be there with theCUBE two sets. So if you're going to VMworld now, explore, go register, get updates in San Francisco. Always a great event. vSphere and vSan, always great products. But you got carbon black, you got security. So these things have all been working kind of pistons for VMware. Okay, Tanzu, I know Raghu and those guys are doing a Craig Mcluckian team. They're working on that. You got Tanzu, you got Monterey. That's the new cloud native thing. How is that tracking vis-a-vis the operating model of the core engine vSphere, vSan and others? And then with the native services of cloud. So you got AWS cloud with VMware cloud. vSphere, vSan, carbon black and security. And then you got the Tanzu over here. How do those three things coming together? Well, the services that customers love first and foremost that they've been running the mission critical workloads on, vSphere, vSan, NSX. What VMware cloud on AWS is, is a packaging together of those services. So customers don't have to configure it all themselves and do the heavy lifting. We manage and run it on their behalf. What we're adding to that most recently with Tanzu is now the ability to run containers within the same environment. As customers tell us, they've got parts of their organization that are very much on vSphere VMs. Parts of their organization are moving to containers. We want to be able to provide a single operating model, a single layer, a single way of managing all of that no matter where it's deployed. So that's how we have it. I remember back in the day when Raghu wasn't the CEO, Carl Escherbach was there, Sanjay Poonin was there. Carl's now at Sequoia Capital, Raghu's CEO. Sanjay's kind of looking for a next gig. I always said, why doesn't vSphere and NSX become that abstraction layer and commoditize the network so that white boxes and Dell and HP can all play in that layer. It just never happened yet. Is that something you guys talk about at all? I mean, in the smoky room and the execs, is that happening? What's the vision? Well, we always work backwards from customers, right? And what customers are telling us is they want us to help at them with that undifferentiated heavy lifting. So who knows where that could take us, but right now we're very focused on helping those customers move with confidence to the cloud. You didn't take the bait on that one, I appreciate that. Okay, so let's get to the perspective. Since you're out with customers, one of the big things that you're seeing right now from your customers right now, because you look behind us here, 10,000 people at this event, this is not a no show. This is not a throwaway event in somewhere and in the corner of the world. This is New York City, only one summit. This is bigger than Snowflake Summit and that was packed. So from an event standpoint, this is a pretty big game statement here for AWS. These companies are not experiencing headwinds. They're changing. So what are your customers telling you around what they're looking at for the cloud native architecture? I mean, obviously the digital transformation is continuing, obviously the clouds here. And again, we were saying earlier, this is the first time in history that the cloud hyperscalers have been in market during a so-called downturn. So there's no other data. 2008 there was, I wouldn't call them up and running. They were building, but AWS, Azure, others, these cloud players, they're in market. And so you start to see kind of some data coming out saying, hey, this thing's still working. The engine of innovation is cranking out and it's not slowing down the digital transmission. It might change the capital markets and valuations, but it's not changing customers. That's what I'm hearing. Now you probably agree with that, right? I think that's exactly right. Okay, so let's stay with that. If you believe that, then it's like, okay, what are they doing? So what are customers doubling down on? What are some of the patterns you're seeing in the environment today that you could share with the audience? Yeah, so I think first and foremost is that steady transition to the cloud to deliver all of those benefits of agility, costy, elasticity, innovation, sovereignty, sustainability, that hasn't gone away at all. In fact, it's only accelerated. With workloads like virtual desktops, which became so critical during COVID, the need to be able to provide that kind of scalable elastic capacity has only increased. Now, coupled with that, most of these customers are already on a cloud journey, and while some folks may have had the luxury of letting that go a little bit more slowly, nowadays the urgency is pervasive. Across all of the industries that we get to talk to in New York, everyone needs to go faster. Everybody is not seeing the progress that they expected that we think we can help them deliver. So the opportunity, I think, that's come out of COVID is more workloads, different use cases, disaster recovery, ransomware. Is that more of an awareness or reality or both? Both, absolutely. Okay, so let me answer the next question. This is a good conversation. I think I agree 100%. We're seeing the same exact thing. Now let's talk about how companies are thinking about the real opportunity that's emerged, which is refactoring the business model without actually changing the makeup of the organization, per se, to take on new territories and potentially take over categories. So I mean, a data warehouse and a data cloud's kind of the same thing. Snowflake probably wouldn't like me saying that they're a data warehouse because they call themselves a data cloud. But it's kind of the same thing, just refactored on AWS. That's a super cloud. So that's an opportunity for everyone to do that in every vertical. How many customers are actually thinking that way and actually taking steps to pursue that, capture that opportunity? Or do you agree it's opportunity? No, I think that is an opportunity and I love that idea of super cloud in that what I think customers have started to realize over the last couple of years in particular is it's very difficult to take advantage of all of those great cloud services if your applications are still behind a whole lot of different layers of firewalls and so forth. So getting the application close to those services, in proximity to those services, is that first step in modernization. Then it doesn't have to be a change the wings on the plane while it's flying conversation, which is very risky for a lot of organizations. It's a let's get the plane going a little bit faster, let's get the plane going a little bit smoother and let's get the plane to its destination with less risk. James, that reminds me of the old school conversations of non-disruptive operations. Remember those days? I do, yeah. Mostly about storage and servers. But that's basically what you're saying. Transform while operating. Exactly. So this is, you can do both and you got to make time and it's a talent question too. I'd love to get your thoughts on how customers are thinking about who do you put on which tasks? Because you want your A players on both areas. You don't want all your A players, what I hear CISOs and CIOs telling me is that if I put all my A players on transformation, I got no one running the business. So you got to kind of balance. That's a cultural team decision. It's a cultural team decision. It's also a skills marketplace decision. And there's a practical reality to the skills that are available and how fast you can hire them. So a big part of the conversation that we have is when customers have existing skill sets, plug those into their transformation. Plug those into their business outcomes. I like to use the phrase, let's make heroes out of IT because they can be a much more critical player than they think they can. I mean IT basically is not even around anymore. It's part of the organization. And then you have data science and data engineering coming in. So IT is not a department anymore. It's the company. Exactly right. If you're kind of going down that road, yeah. All right, so final question. What's the biggest change you've seen and observed in your current year and a half? You know, coming out of COVID, knowing what was before, what seed change, what inflection point are we in now? How would you describe this current market? Because again, we're kind of in a unique market. You know, you got crypto around the corner, people getting attracted to that. Little bubbly, obviously. Reality of cloud and 2.0 or super cloud emerging. On-premise is not going away. Edge exploding on the industrial side, especially with machine learning coming along. So this operating model is clearly in sight. What's the biggest observation you've noticed? I think it's the sense of urgency over the last couple of years. In the most customers I talk to are no longer relaxed about the timing of delivering cloud capabilities to their organizations. Most customers are on sort of a transformation journey of their own and digital transformation and cloud transformation are absolutely fundamental to that. One more real quick follow-up question, don't mind because I appreciate your time. One of the things that's come up a lot in our conversations is the role of the ecosystem. Not only as part of the business model, but also validation of the enablement that cloud offers companies. You have an enabling platform. Your ecosystem is well known. And so your customers are starting to develop ecosystems. So if the cloud model kind of trickles like downstream, ecosystem is kind of a proof of something. What's your view of all this ecosystem discussion as we transform this next generation? Yeah, I think it touches on a couple of things. So obviously there is a technology ecosystem which is evolving very rapidly in support of cloud and cloud transformation. What's interesting I think is the business ecosystem that's evolving around it. We're seeing our customers evolve their own businesses to assume that those cloud capabilities will be available to them. And if the cloud capabilities are not available to them in a timely fashion, then the ecosystem starts to have a domino effect. So the ecosystems are interdependent between business and technology and skills and talent. And I think that's a great place to be. James Forrester, they're going to shut us down. The speakers are on. They're going to pull the plug. Thanks for being our last interview here in New York City and bringing us home. We appreciate you taking the time to come on theCUBE. John, thanks so much. Great to be here. Okay, we are wrapping it up here in New York City. I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. Great day for Lisa Martin, Dave Vellante, the entire crew of theCUBE here on the ground. Live in person, events are back. theCUBE hybrid got online. Check out our coverage there on SiliconANGLE and theCUBE.net. I'm John Furrier signing off from New York City. See you next time.