 Welcome everyone to the generational zeitgeist podcast by Lowstar UM India. This is a series of podcasts where we discuss all things Gen Z. This is the first podcast of the series. I am Kulunathan with me. I have our Mark Darshek, strategy guru, CEO of Lowstar UM India Aditya Mishra. Hi Aditya. Hi Kula. Good to be here. Yeah, I am also very excited for this one. So we'll start while this series of podcasts will look at different aspects of the Gen Z. But today's podcast specifically will look at the five things that really stood out in our two years of research that we did. But before we get on with those five things itself, we just want to touch upon the main highlights of our research. We reached out to about 1000 Gen Zs in terms of quantitative research surveys and about 100 Gen Zs. We personally reached out to spoke to them at length. We have collectively worked 50 to 60 hours of recording and some of them you will be hearing through the podcast. And beyond that, we've also deployed some other interesting techniques like mind mapping we did with quite a few of the Gen Zs. So these are some of the few highlights. What was interesting according to you? So two, three things. I think the first, as we know, Gen Z is like a bus, but for today's market years, everybody wants to know more about them. They are the people who we think will be our consumers of the future. Big impact on what is getting consumed, seen, bought by people. So it was important for us to really understand them. Also, I think an interesting technique that we really used is rather than traditional ways of going through a market research partner or looking at some other pieces. We actually wrote in the Gen Z insiders. So pretty much the key part of this is this is understanding of Gen Z by the Gen Z and then us from the outside interpreting what it means, what it could potentially hold for us in terms of communication, marketing and what could we do with all that we have learned. So I think the variety of techniques, rather than just a questionnaire or just a group discussion, set of people, this whole intermix of techniques and the fact that it has been collected with Gen Zs themselves gives us a lot more authenticity in the voice that we have got. And because it's over a period of time, especially a period of time which has changed the world quite dramatically. So, you know, right from the onset of COVID to how it has panned out over the last two years, it has also given us some balancing in terms of the way Gen Z has evolved over this period of time. How they faced it, how they recovered through this process for certainly for sure. And you mentioned that definitely the Gen Z insiders are one part. Then I'm a brilliant and you're a Gen X person. So there's an overlay of all kind of generational interpretation of those data points. So that's why we're calling it the generational zeitgeist. So with that, we'll start over with the first point that really stood out was that these are the generation of action. So they are participating in the progress of the nation, helping communities together to move ahead. So that's what one thing really stood out, how they are completely focused on not just their personal career, but also helping others, their peers, their family members or somebody who's in need. So they're helping everyone around them to move ahead. That's a very encouraging thing for the country. Yeah, so I think say young people or youth in a way, you know, is always an age when you are more absorbing what's happening around you and therefore a lot more idealistic, a lot more wanting to make a change and a difference in the world around you. And I think the way the situation has panned out this audience or this Gen Z consumer is all the more, you know, focused on this aspect. The other thing which has changed, if you look at, you know, how things have panned out across years is that they have a lot more exposure. They have a lot more understanding of different kinds of things. Nothing is as taboo as it was, you know, earlier, if you look at maybe 20 years earlier, there were topics you would not discuss. There were topics you would not raise up, whether it's within your home, whether it's with your teachers or with your friends. But today, in a sense, not too many topics are taboo. You are okay to discuss a lot of things. You are you're there for a lot more open and that has helped them, I think, to have this wide and progressive mindset that they can look at things, they can evaluate things and then sort of interpret what it means for them. Yeah, yeah, certainly. So this exchange of opinions and the access of internet. So they know what's happening all around the world. So all the good news, bad news, they are facing a lot of challenges in their time. So therefore they collectively believe they would be better off moving together rather than fighting against each other. Another point about action is all about they are very entrepreneurial in their spirit. So definitely this is a start-up generation and everybody is talking about starting up something new. While they want to do that, they also want to get good experiences. So a lot of people we spoke to, they want to get certain experience in say, let's say corporate world or in other career, but they don't want to be stuck there. They want to move beyond that and create something which will impact the society as large. So that is another point of action that we are talking about. Yeah, so one of the interesting things which has emerged over years is comfort with change. They are open to looking at change. A career, a profession is not cast in stone. It's not that if today I decide to be a doctor, tomorrow if I'm not a doctor, life is going to fall apart. So they are very comfortable with this whole idea of phases of life and if they like something, they want to do it for some time and then figure out is that what they want to continue doing. And there is no discomfort in saying, okay, I don't want to do this any longer and let me do something else. And at each stage, it's meaningful and it's adding to them. So that is a very, very big shift, I would say, especially in India because traditionally, we've always been and even now when we talk to maybe people of my generation in terms of what they want their kids to be and all. A lot of them still have those tracks. This is how you should have somebody or somebody grow. But when you talk to Gen Z, they are very comfortable with saying, yes, I know I want to do something and this is what I would like to do, but it's okay if that is not what I want to do five years down the line. And this whole resilience of living with change, looking at different things, I think that's a great thing because that allows you opportunities, that allows you to innovate, that allows you to look at different things and probably a richer life in a way. So now we'll listen to one of the Gen Z members, she's Shivangi, she's from Padnaj and this is her clip. So yeah, she's about 22 years old, she's probably starting her career, but she's still managing time to go to some NGOs and contribute and help because she believes that that's the future of the generations. So that was a very interesting thing. She believes that just ideas are not good enough, we must also contribute in help, building and moving towards the future together. So that's what was interesting. Yeah, so just building back to what we spoke about youth, you know, youth have traditionally been idealistic and want to contribute. And all the more in this generation because they are probably less stretched with many other challenges in terms of the availability or access, technology, looking at different kinds of things that could be done and participated in. So there is this whole sense of us wanting to contribute. There is a sense of us actually doing even small actions, so whether it's a discussion with friends around a topic like mental health or looking at how to teach people around me or enable things around me. So a lot of that kind of action is happening, especially when we spoke to Gen Z into your two towns, that's what came up that it's not metros alone. Metrals, yes, there is a lot, probably known kind of a thing and lives are busy. But in smaller towns as well, there is this whole desire to improve things around you, to better what's happening. Certainly. And while they're being idealistic, and we'll move over to the next point now, while they're being idealistic, that does not mean they are not rational, they are not perceptive in their mindset. So they really see through all the rhetoric because of the whole information age that they are in. They are very perceptive about whatever they're being offered to. So you cannot fool them, we cannot fool them, the brands cannot fool them, and neither can the politicians or things around them. So to a certain extent, they're very skeptical also towards politics, they say, and also questioned the education system as well. So these are the two areas that they definitely want a lot of changes. Yeah, so as we know, last five, seven years, politics and the way different ideologies are both in our country as well as across the globe, there has been a change in terms of how things used to be versus how things are today and therefore what is important today. And it's great that Gen Z is actually questioning and it's looking because that makes it a lot more relevant and choiceful in terms of the decisions that they will take. So they are looking at information, they are evaluating information. And like you mentioned, the growth of technology enabling access to information. So let's say the Queen's funeral and it's rapidly known by everybody. And along with that, there is so much other news which is coming up. Or whether it was Trump or whether it is what's happening with Modi's, Cheetah's being released, all these kind of things, everybody is aware. Everybody is looking at information and analyzing what does it mean. So not just for that moment, but in the long run, what is it indicating? And it's good that these questions are happening because that means that they are growing in that sense and evaluating things. And therefore for the future of the country, that's a great place for us to be. Yeah, and not just there absorbing information, there absorbing a lot of opinions and different types of opinions. And then those opinions and whether they agree to certain opinions or disagree to certain opinions, but they will refine their own opinion over a period of time. So beyond just as politics, whenever the brands interact with them, they will see they will evaluate whether the offering is really helpful for them or not. So they will evaluate all of those criteria. So therefore the brands also have to be very cautious when they're offering something to Gen Z. Right. So I think it's always true that marketing in its truest sense has to really present what is the essence of the brand and the product. And never more than before, because now you have a plethora of things and products which have come up, is that the meaning of a brand, what does a brand really stand for? Why is it relevant to the youth? I think that has to be sort of shared with them in a very, very clear manner. Because they are questioning the relevance of the brand, questioning just because a brand existed earlier doesn't mean it means it's meaningful for me. And therefore this whole growth that we see around us, whether it's D2C brands, whether it is new brands or new variants which are coming up, because they can be more experimentative, they can look at other choices. So we'll listen to Sandeep, he's from Orissa. So he actually talks about this whole bit on questioning, how it is important for us to question, how important for us to kind of share opinions. So let's hear him. Okay. That's the first thing that we think we should do is, as a society, we should, like, we are a democracy. So we should start questioning our leaders. We should start, we have a great social media, we have great access to social media, we have all the time internet and all. We should start speaking up on these a little first. We should make sure that our, like, if one intelligent person starts saying anything, no one will hear him. But if 10 or 15 such people start saying the same thing, then other people might want to hear it. So I guess, as long as we have this thing, technology and social media with us, I think we should take advantage of that and start, just start not believing these people and then start questioning these. And I guess that means it will take a lot of time so it will make things fall in place again. So there, we can hear him that this person who's in Odisha, like you mentioned, not from the metros. So they're also taking advantage of all the social media and all of these opinions. And he speaks about, if one person speaks out, doesn't make much of a noise. But if 10, 20, hundreds of people speak together, and that's a part of social media that we see today. Major brands, major leaders or opinion builders, they're also taking note of that and shift their own ideologies and perspective also mold it accordingly. So that's the power that these people have with the seeing through all the rhetoric and questioning things around them. No, absolutely true. And I think the other thing which has happened is that they are also comfortable with dissonance somewhere. So while there is a desire, of course, that I'm right and my voice should be heard and therefore you should believe. But purely because of the way social media operates and how it gets contextualized, I think a lot of them are also open to looking at different views and seeing what is being said by other people. So the challenge possibly which will come to us in the future and even from a brand point of view is really what is being spoken about because no longer a brand can control the narrative. It's not that I can say what it means and that's how everybody will see it because everybody has an equal voice in building the brand. And that is a very important change that most brands have to go up. I think we are seeing some things happening wherein brands are looking at that. But how do we really as communicators and as marketing teams look at how brand voices need to be not just perhaps spoken about or leveraged, but how a brand voice when it's democratized across people, what does it actually land up with? Right, right, right. So yeah, these two are certainly interesting but the next point is something that really surprised me. Typically when we think of Gen Z, we think of them as rebellious and or a very progressive, very modern and all of those things come to our mind. But actually when we spoke to them, we realized that they are very rooted. At least specifically for India, they were very rooted and rooted values still hold strong amongst the Gen Zs. There is importance of the friends. Friends are certainly important. A lot of the things that they share with the friends but family actually are the most important part of their lives. The things that they can share with their immediate family, the parents and the opinion that they get, all key important decisions of their life, they can share with them. The open relationship that the parents have today with the Gen Zs is something that actually stood out. So that is something really surprised me. So I think somewhere one maybe stays with this very built up thing of youth being rebellious, youth being wanting to change everything and all. But that's no longer true. The reason is that families have evolved. The attitudes that parents have, which was autocratic has become more inclusive, more democratic wherein there is a voice that Gen Z has within the family. And obviously the terms we hear of pester power, growing and all that thing. So that is there. And hence I think there is comfort at home, not just in terms of the physicality of home, but also in the way that they can be a lot more of their authentic selves. They can talk about issues which concern them and the families are also a lot more open. So that environment along with I think the period of the study in terms of COVID, you had perforce you were at home and you had to probably engage a lot more with people at home than you might have done otherwise when you were out in college or work or whatever. So that has led to stronger bonds, that has led to a realization of what it really means. So that's one. The other thing is I think a lot of people when we spoke to a lot, many of them said my hero or the person I look up to, my father or my mother or my uncle or my grandmother. So a lot of people are actually now looking inwards or within around you for what you would want to aspire to versus some far off unknown hero figure. So in a sense it has become more real. It has become more actual in terms of what you will be doing. And that's good because that then keeps them rooted in the reality of what life is. The other thing I think is this interesting balance that they have created that being modern and progressive is not really discarding tradition. Yes. So I'm okay with some of the traditional things that I need to do but at the same time I'm okay doing modern things. So doing a puja in the morning is not contra to going for a dance party. They both can coexist and I'm the same individual who is able to do both. Yeah, that was very interesting and while they admire a lot of the things from the western societies but they are very proud of being Indian and proud of a lot of the Indian heritages that they have acquired. Like for example festivals, pujas or a lot of people actually beyond gymming and all that stuff. A lot of people actually spoke about how they do yoga. So that is very interesting to see that whole thing about modernity while having this balance of culture of Indianness. Yeah so I think it's important for us to you know sort of step back and link it to the rise of India on the global stage because you know maybe when you were at this age or definitely when I was at this age it was all about you know the best kind of mindset. You know in India you don't have many things and India is not able to do many things and therefore you look outside for you know what is possibly the best of something whether it's products, whether it's opportunity etc. But today with the growth of India on the global stage the way we have you know come far ahead as a country and the fact that it is respected as you know values or things that we have taken to the larger world I think there is comfort in that that you know any product that you want it is now available here or you can get it here. In terms of growth or in terms of how the economic markets are evolving India is a big power today versus you know many years back. So that impact I think is felt because you're more confident about what is India you're more confident about your identity you don't have to look outside. So while you are creating you know what you will be as a grown-up you know mature so-called person so the Gen Z is very comfortable with this idea of pulling together multiple aspects and facets to create a new identity and that's great because it's looking at the best of all in sense you know so that that is where I think this whole background of where we are in terms of a country is sort of feeding into that. Yeah yeah so we'll listen to Nina he's from Delhi he's also a 22-year-old and he speaks about how culture has really shaped him he's otherwise very progressive but he's got lots lot of rooted values that's what we'll hear. Actually the culture is what makes us and if I am nothing if I don't have a culture I'm nothing but I feel like it has made me what I am. The feeling will culture the tradition that I have been showing in my channel it has really somehow shaped me into what I am right now. Okay and can you name a few traditions or pastels that you follow? Okay you know everywhere it's just one thing that we wake up after questioning that and everything we do just it is always nice to pray with a prayer that's your idea I mean and it has been growing in our family so hmm you know we have a lot of something we meant our kind of prayer in our house It's just burning in Delhi It has been burning in my house since I was young and in my parents house since they were born so there is an entire rating where the tradition of that was done. So there is many smells in you know which is shallow every one has different things to say about it. Yeah okay I'm just sure. So there we can hear that Nina he's so much influenced by culture and he believes that whatever he's today is because the culture has shaped him that way and he talks about this Akhandia in his family that's been burning from his birth as well as from his parents birth. So today one fine day he'll not wake up and he'll say all these are not good so we'll move ahead we'll move to progressive values no he'll respect that he'll add up all these progressive values around him what is happening and he'll bind it he'll he'll fuse it together with all the traditional values that he holds today. No no absolutely and you will see this faith I think is a very underlying thread in our communities in our culture and the open celebration that we have in terms of how we look at different religions how we look at celebrations and how visible they are in fact it's interesting to note that some of the traditions have only become more visible you know when I was younger probably celebrations were a lot more muted in terms of you know within the core community and today again technology at play so you know you have all kinds of playlists of music you have all kinds of other things you have cards e-cards you have big shows pretty much put up so there is a lot more visibility of faith but at the same time the core way that your family or your you know community celebrates something that becomes an inherent part of it so this whole comfort with duality this comfort with able to straddle different words so as to say is something that Gen Z is is quite okay with. Yeah yeah yeah this balance actually that's actually the fourth point that we will talk about that how they seek balance between things so they while they're very young they're very much matured that is something that balance that they seek is something was very interesting so while they're absolutely open towards technology they also see the other side of technology which is like overpowering and too much intrusive and all of that so that balance they are constantly seeking similarly when we talk to them about health we ask them what do you think about health while they spoke about physical health or being physically healthy they spoke a lot about being mentally fit so that is something that really was interesting for us to observe for the Gen Z. Yeah so I think mental health has come to the fore it's it's not a topic that we don't talk about or don't understand I think a lot of brands have also taken initiatives where in their pride to enable this and especially because last two years I would say have been tough especially in this regard and you know it's impacted so I was just having a conversation with one of my friends a few days back when we were discussing that you know at my age two years is a relatively small span of time but let's say for a Gen Z when you are you know 13 and you become 15 that's a big change that's almost like a life-state change or when you are you know 17 and you become 19 when in school out of school or you know suddenly not a t into a t those kind of things those are big changes and that has resulted in a lot of pressure a lot of challenges that this generation has faced in a way and therefore this whole issue of wanting to talk about mental health realizing the importance of mental health and helping them through that has come to the fore also seeking again you know ways to engage so while schools colleges etc do have help but also technology in terms of you know sites where you can read where you can engage your groups support groups all of that has come a long way and I think that realization is important that it's not just about the physical aspect of life but the mental aspect which is important because otherwise I can't be my best I can't do what I'm supposed to do finally pulling back to Gen Z is you know very in a way I would say very rational out yeah yeah a lot of their issues are looked at very rationally through information and then they decide okay what should I do yeah yeah yeah so we'll listen to Ritika now and she's she also she speaks about this mental health and how it's important which is giving you money so there she speaks about like being how physically and mentally but also speaks about happiness happiness is very much important for them because once you're happy once you're in a good mood when you're in a good zone good place then you can focus on all kinds of including your physical health without a good mental health you cannot be physically very fit so that's she really stresses well yeah so at 18 you know there's a very mature kind of a thing saying don't run after money yeah let's look at this so it's a good balance yeah you know understanding what is important evaluating that and then talking about what should be done yeah to make it happen yeah interestingly like the other day I was also talking to one of my colleague and he was talking about this whole new trend that's happening which is all about quiet quitting like people who are kind of after pandemic realizing how my personal life is also very important so therefore they are doing that much of work which is required they're not very much going after the career for putting everything on the line so that that is also a very interesting like again balance balance is what you're seeking and very maturely handling that situation so yeah yeah so it is quiet quitting as has multiple aspects but I think what last two years have done for everyone is you you've re-looked at your life yes you've re-looked at your priorities and you know unlike people who are who are possibly already you know five seven years into work Gen Z is just starting their journey in many ways so they are already sort of queued in to understand what should be important for us what should be the way we should want to design our lives yeah so in a in a way it's it's like you know very consciously they have understood this role of we are the architects of our life ahead yeah and and therefore what is important how do we balance things and be rational and informed yeah about the choices similarly for the brands also it will be important because brands does a lot of social good while they appreciate their understands that but also they seek real value of the brand what value the brand adds to their life so that balance is important for the brand to also deliver to the consumer so with that I'll move over to the final point or the fifth point that we'll discuss today which is all about that they are very pragmatic functional and solution seeking mindset is something that they have they prefer function over emotion they will evaluate everything very rationally they are well informed even if there are certain emotional factors that are there they'll give a proper scoring to that that okay this much is good like for example auto like looks of the car or style of the car they will give a score to that okay this is this much important and all of those rationally breaking down a decision that is something that's really important for them and also important for the brands to notice that offer something which is actually adds value to the gender's life so yeah I think it's it's the way of looking at any kind of a choice they make in terms of a brand or a product that they want to bring into their arena is this evaluation on hard parameters so is what is the quality what does it do for me what is the price thing so you know unlike getting sweet so there are categories like for example let's say a handset you know you you would want the next better handset and if you have to stretch a bit you would do that and and then the trade-off might be that you know two times I don't go with my friend because you know I want this so very very hard wired I would say way of thinking that this is what is important let me prioritize what is important for me and it it runs through I think the way and lot of Gen Z that he spoke about the thousand of them along with the depth interviews gave us this view that you know they are able to step back and evaluate what is it doing for me it may be a great thing by itself a brand may be brilliant but is it really for me yeah and this for me evaluation like you said it's it's it's a very I would say okay not not necessarily on paper pen but it's a very clear you know pros gone kind of a trade-off yes that that they are sort of doing yeah yeah and the other interesting part is that you know I am doing my trade-off yeah you want to do another trade-off it's fine I'm not judging you for your trade-off yeah but but so we can align even in the same set of friends or in group yeah we can okay to be different yeah it's fine but I will take the choice that I really want to do yeah certainly so in this research we also compared the Gen Z with the millennial and that's what we noticed that Gen Z skew more towards quality trust access price reviews recommendation and all while millennials skew more towards how brands are socially responsible are they cool or not cool or if the advertisements that kind of really appeal to them or not so that kind of really talks about the skew of how Gen Z are very much functional while millennials are slightly emotional or slightly values all of those factors which are more skewing towards the emotion appeal along with that we also ask a lot of other question where we asked them about how what are the criterias that they appreciate the brand so the biggest criteria was all about whether the brand really serves your purpose or not solves up something or not that's exactly talks about what you are talking that they is it for me or not that's personal and also something that actually suits their pocket so that is another factor that really stood out which is almost about 81 percent said it has to fit my budget it has to fit suit my pocket yeah yeah yeah so we know that this is the age when money is at a really tight you know while there is this we spoke about the fact that a lot of them are looking at entrepreneurship they are looking at ways of diversifying how they want to grow but still they are dependent you know for some other source for the money that they have and hence this whole evaluation of how they want to stretch that how what is the maximization that they can do of that budget is is absolutely critical all the more because now there are so many more choices yes so much you can do so much you can try hence from a brand's point of view while meaning is important but also value value not just in terms of the price alone but overall value in terms of whether it's recognition whether it's you know freebies or additional access that I can get to things how I can learn other things those are all things which start becoming very important yeah so we'll listen to proverb he's a 15 year old kid from Noida and he speaks about the pragmatic mindset that he has mostly so do you really at your age do you really prefer yes I prefer because from this we should be more careful at how we spend our money and try to conserve it because we should be able to look at the expenses yes so there she's a 15 year old person and but how much mature he is so he's talked about that this is the monies that I have and this is something that I need to prioritize so therefore I'll go with this one nothing against Tommy Hilfiger that's how he probably shop so therefore he prefers more brands which are value for money and delivers good quality products and that's that's his criteria though that's how he shops yeah the interesting thing that you know we sort of decoded from this is the whole impact on luxury as a you know so what do luxury brands need to do how do they need to engage and and hence the whole aspect of sustainable luxury reviewing fast fashion and you know how much a fast fashion is really required yeah so those are some of the other trends that sort of get impacted by these kind of attitude yeah you know just because I can afford it yeah should I do it and and if I don't buy then do I feel inferior what are the implications of something like this yeah and and that sets a brand thinking that if I am in this space how do I appeal to these kind of audiences how do I make my brand and product meaningful for them yeah because they will be the buyers of tomorrow yeah yeah so like you mentioned about fast fashion we spoke of how H&M what H&M they are doing with the whole recyclable clothing and all that what they're doing so a lot of people have spoken about it while they see that H&M's not so pocket friendly brand but still how they can contribute and not feel bad about and so that was one thing that stood out in terms of fashion other brands that in terms of tech that really stood out like both or one plus those two brands really amongst the tech brand really stood out so basically that both offers good quality product at a good price and similarly one plus one plus also has the heritage or legacy of doing that yeah so that is the I would say the opportunity for you know for growth so we have we have this whole suite of traditional brands and you know legacy brands which have been there for a long time but there is this opportunity for new age brands to come and make a difference yeah because people are now a lot more receptive to this as long as you have a product which works at a price which is great you have the opportunity to make a difference and and that's what we are seeing with the growth of lot of T2C brands that's one path yes that a lot of brands have taken wherein you know they have got great growth because you are talking to consumer directly yeah yeah certainly so finally I'll put a very unfair point to you I have a question to you rather how do you summarize all of this and what really one thing that you would want to talk about the Gen Z is that really appeal so I don't know appeal is a is a good one but what I think is important for us to learn from this broad line of the discussion is that Gen Z while they carry the idealism of you they carry the emotion of wanting to change things but they are different from the generations previously because they are a lot more informed and rational yeah choices so so it is important for market years or or brands to sort of straddle both yeah you can't have an only emotional story it has to be rooted in the reality of some function yes yes you know so so otherwise you'll be discarded otherwise yeah you'll not be adopted so so that balance is absolutely critical the other thing I think which I personally took out is is you know the future is right it's it's great news for all of us when when Gen Z is really making choices in such a thought through manner yeah and they are really looking at things which are meaningful not just for them in isolation but for the society at large wanting to make a difference and this whole ability of balancing the tradition the custom along with the new yeah so these two things I think you know make me feel very good that there is there's going to be great things yeah certainly certainly great things coming and I really like the the refreshing clarity that thing that they observe and see the world around take their decision and also the way I see is they might not be major disruptors but they're definitely in for evolutionary innovations constant innovation but innovation that adds more value to their lives and as I was going through all of these research work and all of the understanding about Gen Z I was asking myself constantly whether where was I when I was 22 year old 19 year old what was I doing so so that's it for today the five points that we discussed if you like to listen to this podcast and want to listen to more of such podcast lookup generation is like guys do share this podcast with all your marketing colleagues or friends around and help us be more visible thanks for listening to us have a nice day bye bye