 Hey guys, welcome back to my YouTube channel. This is Daniel Rossell here today's video is building on my previous videos about M Discs This special archival grade optical media in DVD and blu-ray and what I thought I'd do in today's video is take a look at a couple of recommendations from different bodies regarding optical media storage stuff you If you really care about this stuff, and I know this isn't the most Fascinating topic. It's something most people back up and data protection want to just kind of not think about but if you are going to take it Seriously, and if you've watched my previous videos on M. Discs Duplication then you're probably in that minority who really does take this seriously in which case this info might be of interest We're going to be looking at two Different sets of guidelines today regarding optical media storage. The first is this web page from the council on library and information resources that is acronym is CLIR and Secondly from the Canadian Conservation Institute This one's about CDs and DVDs. These are these web pages are a little bit old school but the Canadian Conservation Institute one at least refers specifically to blu-rays and So if you're using blu-ray M. Discs, then that's going to be, you know, the most relevant to you You'll find a few of these on the internet, you know government archival bodies will just kind of put up these resources and They're just intended and they're they're very similar. So therefore, you know I'm going to just kind of pick two out of the haystack To talk about here. So let's just take a quick look at this CLIR page It's called conditions affecting that affects CDs and DVDs and just some general Guidelines now it says here as we saw other media types Degradation is inevitable over time But steps me Kate taken to prevent it from occurring prematurely now in the case of the M disc This actually isn't accurate because they're saying that data degradation will not be will not occur for 100 to 1,000 years So I guess that is still inevitable But less at the at the at the scale of inevitability That it doesn't really matter for most people I'm going to just zoom in a little bit here so you can see this stuff better So firstly environmental conditions your two concerns being temperature and relative humidity Optical disc will perform well within a wide range of temperature and RH conditions discs kept in a cooler Less humid environment and not subject to extreme changes should last longer Okay So if you're going to be trying to find some place to store your M disc library Look for somewhere cool and look for somewhere with less Relative humidity. That's RH RH can be measured very easily using what's called a hygrometer It's a little thing you can pick up from Amazon for a few dollars and they'll tell you the percentage of Water in the air. So basically a dry cool Environment is kind of what you're going for and one that doesn't suffer from you know a lot of so again These aren't things that are going to destroy your optical storage overnight We're talking here about keeping discs cold for months and years and I guess it's the case that that kind of these those temperature gradients are going to are going to You know and do put the disc Physically under stress, but over the course of time. We're talking a long term stuff here Optical discs stored in an opted optical environment will outlast discs that are not that's a nice tongue twister Isn't it optical disc stored in an optical environment with will outlaw discs that are not I'm going to try say that after a few beers and see See how far I got Storage temperature and RH range is recommended in various technical sources. So I find this really interesting like These different ISO standards exist people have really thought about this like look at these bodies the archive national archives of Australia This ISO standard from 2002 the National Library of Canada, so let's just take a quick glance at what they're recommending So these guys have slightly different temperature ranges, you know between 5 and 20 degrees for DVDs We're getting a bit more a bit more bullish here DVD plus rew JJ Taylor in 2001 suggesting they can be stored from minus 10 to 50 relative humidity 30 to 50 55 to 90 and we've got two other factors besides the temperature and humidity and that's the group this the gradient So the gradient being the rate of change, right? So these guys this ISO standard recommends a temperature gradient of four degrees Celsius per hour The DVDs look they're a little bit more robust. They this This JJ Taylor in 2001 says well, they can handle 10 to 15 degrees per hour An RH humidity they can handle an RH gradient of 10 percent change in relative humidity per hour With some being more conservative in their recommendations. So those are kind of the ballparks I think really rather than thinking about these things just the key takeaway for m-disc people would probably be You know try to put your m-discs in somewhere cool and cold doesn't really get above let's say 30 degrees ideally And that the temperature and the humidity also don't like very like a yo-yo during the day So if you can find somewhere that's really stable and somewhere in this pretty big range You should be pretty good, right? So that's that And it said if you're storing a very low temperature relative to the environment that did so these guys really have thought of everything The discs should be gradually warmed So let's move off temperature and humidity, I think that's enough detail for for most people Light exposure. Okay, although the effects of light on ROM discs over time is not known The effects of long-term exposure to light for example ultraviolet Infrared fluorescent under ambient intensity such as room lighting are generally thought to be so minimal that light is not considered a factor in the lifetime of the ROM disc, so that's what the CLIR is saying that basically you don't need to worry about light exposure However any effect of light on the disc would involve degradation of the polycarbonate substrate And would become noticeable only after several decades of exposure to daily storage facility lighting or sunlight through windows So to play it safe put them in a in a don't expose them to light I would say basically they're saying it shouldn't matter, but I would say You know play it safe, however Regarding that's where that was regarding ROM discs regarding arc R discs. So this is your Blu-ray R That would be in this category prolonged exposure to sunlight or other sources of UV light can Significantly increase the degradation rate of the dye layer in our desks now I don't think they should apply to M-disc because of the fact that it's not a dye based technology It's an engraving based technology Degradation of the dye makes it less transparent as a result some or all of the unmarked areas in the dye could be read as marks And therefore that's going to be error when it by the laser. So Again, I come back to the previous point put it in a why take a risk on any of this stuff It shouldn't I don't think be in a shown M-disc, but why not just put it in a in a In a somewhere not exposed to light we covered moisture and relative Humidity, but it's kind of saying the obvious here that any prolonged exposure to moisture like from a spill Lies water to become absorbed into the disc where it may react with any of the layers So don't put your M-discs in Don't store them in a bathtub, I guess Right because prolonged exposure. It's going to seep into the disc And as it says the concern is that the Anything in the water because it's in your bathtub will be not will not be filled with distilled water. There'll be other chemicals Dissolved in that liquid it might react with the disc and screw it up So again, I don't I think M-disc should actually be more durable in this respect because of the fact that it's not dye-based But anyway, just FYI here's just a few more tidbits that these guys have I think they're interesting magnetism shouldn't affect them CDs and DVDs. So like X-ray exposure should be okay, but don't put them in a microwave Because they will destroy the disc. So I think that's a well-known fact that videos in YouTube Here's something interesting if you're thinking of using posting your M-discs to other folks, right? So the US Postal Service and probably most postal services will scan stuff to counter bioterrorism threats So they've actually done some testing at exposure levels of three six sixty to three hundred Kilograze of radiation and they find that the discs were unaffected There were no traces of residual radiation on any of the packages of or discs So I would say I wouldn't I wouldn't worry about it I wouldn't worry about post posting your M-discs in that they're going to be scanned in transit based on this testing Individual disc storage. So here's a bit more interesting stuff Optical discs should be kept in individual storage containers until used and returned to those containers immediately thereafter Cases are designed to keep surfaces of the disc from contact with the inside of the case Only one disc should be placed on the hub in the case So that's your gold standard for M-disc storage and optical storage is these dual cases and not having them in those plastic things Again, I'm not sure to what extent this really does matter But that's what they're recommending These guys really thought of everything for long-term disc storage It may sometimes be prudent to remove the label insert or buckle it from inside the case and attach it to the outside Perhaps in a seat perhaps in a sleeve in theory the paper can attract moisture and produce higher moisture content in the case So remember those remember that if you can get those clear cases that don't have a label So they're saying to play it safe. You might want to do that the dual case So the dual case, I don't know what these slimline cases or snapper cases or Amory cases are I think the dual case is good enough. That's your best So anything on the optical disc surface that impedes the ability to laser to focus on the data layer can result in missing data As it is could be red fingerprint smudges So don't get far and stuff on your disc And then scratches obviously if they're very superficial it should be okay But if the scratch and this would I think apply to end discs as well if the scratches are deep They can get into the where the data is engraved and that could produce data errors and then on the label side They're saying for CDs. It can actually be more serious problem because The data layer is actually closer to the metal layer. So there you go. Oh We cover the hot button topic of marking and we're talking about remember we're talking about CDs and DVDs here So when labeling a CD with markers the composition of the sorry I'm having a hard time highlighting this Without scrolling inadvertently when labeling a CD with markers the composition of the ink in the marker And the styler design in the marker should be considered The ink some markers vary in chemical conditions blah blah blah so basically As I recommended in a previous video if you want to play it safe You can write on the place where the data isn't stored that's like right near the center So that to me is the easiest solution and they also make CD and DVD grade markers, right? So the point here is definitely valid. There are different chemicals and markers and the risk here To eliminate the risk water-based markers is a very important thing to know about CD and DVD Water-based markers are recommended for CD labeling as a solvent alcohol is generally less damaging than xylene and Tulene which are common in aromatic solvent-based markers so They do make a CD DVD grade markers and that's presumably what's in them, right? But just as an FYI I just write on the inner side and I don't think stickers should be a problem. I'd be interested to see if they cover that um Most vendor sells CD safe markers And they actually mention for risk-free labeling any disc it is best to mark the clear inner hub Or the so-called mirror band of the disc where there are no data. Okay, so I've shown this before That's a disc part of the CD where my mice is here. It's it's the clear inner hub, right? There's no data stored there. So you can just take your marker and to be safe Use a regular marker. You could even find you can even print if you figure out a way to print a circular sticker according to this diameter And do your labeling here, right? So that eliminates all um All concerns if you just go here in the clear inner hub um So there you go application of adhesive labels Oh, I was wrong So they do they do not like this adhesive labels should not be applied to optical discs designed for long term storage This label could delaminate over time and interfere with disk drive operation the adhesive in some Earlier earlier labels has also been known to react with the lacquer surface Any attempt to peel the label off could damage the lacquer. So I stand corrected Thank you for the commenter on youtube appointed this out. So yeah, um, what so what I would do Let's come back to this my system is is a letter in three numbers and then I keep a spreadsheet So if you're building a backup library on optical, um, you could just take your marker I'm right. My system is a I started with a zero zero one. So it's really easy to write here a zero zero one a zero zero two So that's a system that gets you all over Over all the possible humps here. So they're saying don't use labels um If label is used it should be it should be again a special type Um, so yeah, these guys are hardcore here in their directions Disc surface printing thermal printing um inkjet printing wear from disc play CDs and DVDs don't wear down vinyl records do Um, and there we go guys. Wow. What a resource from the council on library and information resources Based out of alexandra va Hard to find it more comprehensive than that. Let's just have a quick look at what the canadian say This is from the canadian conservation institute or the cii and this um is a I guess a later resource because we actually talk about um, We talk about bdrs and a bdr is a recordable um blu-ray So they give you a little um schematic here And I think this would be very close to what an endist looks like under a microscope So there's the top side. You've got um the data is here and then the bottom side Um the cover layer and then in the m-disc it should be engraved into this um They say They do mean they do have some observations and I'm going to just skip to these Store discs vertically in standard size dual cases. So they're actually saying the same thing This is the best practice paper or plastic sleeves are not recommended as I as they provide little physical Protection they may interact chemically with the disc. Okay, that's a point And or they scratch the disc surfaces Use one piece poly Uh propylene cases for storage of discs that are handled frequently Um, so they're saying dual discs are the best uh best thing going And their recommendation the recommended rh relative humidity range for extended storage is 20 to 50 With the rh never falling below 10 interestingly enough Don't get it too dry and temperature of minus 10 to 23 was the temperature never exceeding 32 degrees celsius. So again these recommendations Accord and basically don't put them in your attic where if you live in somewhere like, uh, you know um, I don't know the equator where the Temperatures might get up to like 40 Degrees and then it's going to cool down really quickly a night which would cause a high temperature gradient Especially don't put them in a very warm very humid attic with a high temperature gradient That's probably the worst Thing you could possibly do um, and then, um So that would be I would say those are my recommendations for m-disc based on a synthesis of all this information If you want to label them right at here storing them long term Keep it somewhere that is not quite cigar cigars after I do it for some reason when I think of storage humidities my mind immediately goes to cigars because I think cigars are 70 70 is the rule for umidors So you don't want that you want somewhere that's a bit less humid 20 to 50 And you want somewhere that's pretty temperate like minus 10 to 23 So for for instance where I am originally from in Ireland I would not be hard actually to find storage like this because uh, those that's kind of the Parameters of the climate and I don't think you have to be super careful. But if you want to really Um, keep an eye on things that might be worth if you're if you have an m-disc archive Buying a combination hygrometer and thermometer and just putting it next to wherever you're throwing your disc So you can keep an eye on this if you wanted to go wild with this you could have an iot one and set up some kind of alarming Hey, it's too humid or it's too blah blah blah, but that was really Next level protection. Um, I think that's it for today guys For those looking at storing backup archives on optical media, whether that's blu-rays or m-discs I'm gonna skip over dvds because I don't think people are really Going to be using it these days or I can't think of a reason to so if you're doing your backup on site off site off site on optical on Blu-ray or m-disc keep these You'd be well served to keep these guidelines in mind single dual cases are best Here are the guidelines and right Do your labeling if you're doing it at all on the Place on the disc where there's no data being stored. Thank you guys for watching more videos