 It's time for the Lawn Jean Chronoscope, a television journal of the important issues of the hour brought to you every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, a presentation of the Lawn Jean Wettner Watch Company, maker of Lawn Jean, the world's most honored watch, and Wettner, distinguished companion to the world-honored Lawn Jean. Good evening. This is Frank Knight. May I introduce our co-editors for this edition of the Lawn Jean Chronoscope? Larry Lassur, CBS News Correspondent, and William Hine, Sunday editor of the Washington Star. Our distinguished guest for this evening is the Honorable Arthur V. Watkins, United States Senator from Utah. Our guest tonight is known as one of the staunchest conservatives in the whole United States Senate, although he may deny this, but it seems to me that it was probably for this reason that he was chosen to be the chairman of the Select Committee, which was to judge Senator McCarthy. Now, Senator Watkins, the recommendations of your Select Committee were backed up by a majority of the Senate. Do you think this ends the whole emotional, confusing episode of Senator McCarthy? I hope so. I'm, I have it a crystal ball. I have no means of knowing what will come in the future, but I hope that it does end it. Well, Senator, the responsibility for sharing that committee was more or less wished upon you, wasn't it, by the Senate? Do you think that any damage to the Republican Party because of that split could have been avoided? Well, that's difficult to determine at this stage, whether stopping of the hearing or the investigation would help the Republican Party. I have a feeling that it was a good thing for the Republican Party to get that out of the way. Well, Senator, lacking a crystal ball, I don't suppose you'd care to tell us what is going to happen to Senator McCarthy as a result of this censure hearing, but what do you think will be the results as far as the United States Senator concerned? Well, I'm still hoping and I venture the prediction or at least a feeling. I have a feeling that the United States Senate is going to take more pains in seeing that it acts in a little better manner in the handling of its committees and in the conduct of its business. I think the public attention has been centered on the committee to the extent that the Senate knows now that it is being watched more than it has ever been. The fact that one member has been censured tends to center a focus of tension upon the conduct of others. They say, why don't you censure so-and-so and so-and-so? Well, each senator, I believe, is going to be a little more careful how he behaves. Well, I have one other question on the subject of procedure, Senator Watkins, and that is this. Senator McClellan, who will head the committee that Senator McCarthy headed and Representative Walter of Pennsylvania, who will be the new head of the Un-American Activities Committee, have both come out in favor of a joint, single joint committee for the whole Congress to investigate un-American activities and subversion of all kinds. What are your views on that? Well, that's a proposal that's been seriously discussed from time to time. I'm a member of the Internal Security Committee. I think, as you've mentioned, I worked on that committee ever since it was organized under the McCarron Subversive Control Act. I've noticed the operation of these other committees. I have a feeling that if we could get a good, strong committee with the necessary staff, could be put on more or less of a permanent basis and keep it from being in politics, and I think that possibly could happen, that probably a joint committee could do a far better job than having three committees now work on it as we do. Well, in the competition between the committees, wouldn't it? Well, it would end competition in that way, but still, I don't think it would stop active work. Competition usually is a pretty good thing. But when you get to competing in a field that's as explosive as this issue has proven to be, sometimes it's very embarrassing, and one committee attempts to do this, and we have some ambitious people on that committee without referring to any committee specifically. They may upset the plans of a still another committee. There's a waste in a way to have three committees doing that job. This competition has been largely a matter of competition for headlines. Now, do you think that kind of competition is ever good in the legislative chambers? Well, I'm a member of the Internal Security Committee, and I doubt that we've ever gone out in a competitive way to get headlines. We've done a lot of investigating. I personally have held many, many hearings under the direction of Senator McCarran when he was chairman of the committee. And as far as I remember, we didn't get very many headlines simply because we were proceeding in a manner which didn't attract headlines. And I think we uncovered a lot of communists, people who were not what they should have been, and I think we helped cause a great deal. Well, you attracted a lot of headlines, and there's a last session of the Senate. Senator Watkins, what actually happens to a senator who is censured by his colleagues in the Senate? Well, that's difficult to tell. We haven't anything much to go by as far as history is concerned. We only had, as I recall, three times. One of the senators didn't run again, another one resigned, and one was re-elected, but he wasn't very active after that time. It depends upon the senator. Some senators would feel very sensitive about it and feel that they'd been rebuked and probably wouldn't want to stay in the Senate. Other men who feel that probably they were just and they were doing the right thing, they may want to find it out and go on to greater activity. In the case of Senator McCarthy, he's a young man, a lot of vigor and a lot of ability. I think if he would take the lesson to heart now and go to work in a field that would not provoke so much controversy and follow the policies or the philosophy laid down in the censure hearings, I think he could accomplish a great deal. Telling Senator McCarthy to get out of the communist hunting business? Not at all. No, I think not. I haven't had the desire to get him out of the communist hunting business. Do you think he's ever been in it, as a matter of fact? Well, I think he has. I think that's generally known that he has been hunting communists. Senator Watkins, what actually happened to it? He did. I made a fairly good record of it. What actually happens to a political party which reveals such a split as did occur over the special session on Senator McCarthy? Do you think you can really get behind a presidential legislative program now? I think so. I don't see any reason why a dispute over the conduct of one senator should have anything to do with the legislation. As far as I'm personally concerned, I certainly can vote with Everett Dirksen and Senator Martin of Pennsylvania and Senator Welker of Idaho and Senator McCarthy and many of these men on the other side of that contest just as readily as I did before. I found myself frequently voting with them. I don't see any reason why we should have a sharp dispute on legislative matters affecting the entire country simply because we had some kind of dispute over the conduct of one senator. Well, when and if a trade not aid program comes before the House, which side will you be voting with? Well, it'll depend on the proposals made. I'm not going to cross that bridge till I come to it. I don't know what proposals will come in, how they'll come in, and what they attempt to do. But if they attempt to put out a business, the industries of my state in the West, attempt to legislate out of business, you'll find me fighting for my people because I'm the representative. I know how they feel and I know what they're attempting to do. They're attempting to live. The good loyal Americans and they want their industries to go on and they don't want to be traded off for the purpose of benefiting some other section of the world where the standards of living are much lower than they are in our own area. Well, Senator Watkins, President Eisenhower said he stands for a liberally progressive Republican Party, thinks that's the only way the Republican Party can continue to exist. Now, his program does include lower tariffs. What are you going to do about it? Well, I do include lower tariffs. If you'll find some way of taking care of the industries we have in the West, our mining industry, lead and zinc mining, copper mining, our sugar industry, cattle and sheep, poultry, fruits and all that sort of thing. If you'll find some means of helping us to live, we won't object to all the foreign trade they want to bring in. Well, is there anything that can actually be done to help these people out there and still not be forced to give money in form of aid to our foreign neighbors and actually let them trade with us? Well, that's one of those puzzles that everybody's been working on. We've had all the great economists work on it and they don't seem to agree. We had the Randall Commission. We had two different reports out of that commission. We have some of the most distinguished men in the Congress now who are sharply split on that issue. I don't claim to be an economist. I don't think I can answer your question whether there's a possibility of getting together or finding a way that will satisfy everybody. Well, Senator, you're... First of all, however, I'm from America. I'd satisfy the Americans first and the foreigners second. Your state is rather closely in competition with the good many South American countries which also need aid. Are you going to take an attitude about wool, for instance, that you don't want the Uruguayans, the Argentinians to have a wool market here because you need it? Well, I think they can have a wool market here, but at the same time, I think if we're going to live and be able to defend ourselves in this world that is now threatened with all-out war, we'd better seek to it that we have some wool production here. And if we don't do that, if we make the rules and regulations such and lower the tariffs to the point where our wool industry will go out of business, then we may be at the mercy of the world at the time when we need it. As a matter of defense, if for no other reason the wool program that we vented into recently is certainly justified. Senator Watkins, it seems to me that Senator McCarthy has indicated or possibly hinted at the thought that he might run on a third-party ticket. Now, I recall that you were once named by Colonel McCormick as a possible vice presidential candidate on a more or less isolationist ticket. I don't suppose there's any chance you would run with the Senator on a third party, is there? Well, if you will take a look at the Chicago Tribune, if you have taken a look at it in recent times, you'll find out that probably Colonel McCormick has had a change of heart as far as the Senator of Utah is concerned. I've been on the front page, but not under very favorable circumstances. Well, is there any danger to the Republican Party of a third party headed by Senator from Wisconsin? The divisions come, permanent divisions come over great principles, not over the conduct of one man. We had one man once upon a time who was one of the greatest of Americans. He brought a temporary split, but it didn't last long. He himself did everything in the next election to bring about a healing of the wounds, as I'm referring now to Theodore Roosevelt. Well, in other words, you don't think that the Republican Party has been damaged by the senator of Senator McCarthy, but tell me did... No, I don't think so. Have political principles ever come across when you were thinking about what you were actually going to do when you were a juridical judgment of Senator McCarthy? Absolutely not. No, politics had nothing to do with it. We had three Democrats and three Republicans, and I think it's one of the most remarkable things that's happened in legislative history, particularly in our country, that six men could sit down together and work as we did over one of the most controversial figures of our time and absolutely keep politics out of it from beginning to end. That's what we did. It was a matter for each senator, irrespective of his politics, not only on the committee, but in the entire Senate to make his decision purely on the merits of the case, the facts and the law and the ethics involved. Thank you very much, Senator Watkins, and a great pleasure to have you here tonight. The opinions expressed on the Longeen Chronoscope were those of the speakers. The editorial board for this edition of the Longeen Chronoscope was Larry Lusser and William Hines. Our distinguished guest was the Honorable Arthur V. Watkins, United States Senator from Utah. 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